2129: The Socialist Republic of California's Tenant-Friendly Nightmare: What Landlords Need to Know

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I love your show.

I love, you know, the way that.

You go deep into business and, and then go, you know, on some of.

These other tangents of experiences that as business people, we all have. So thank you for putting out such good content because it's, it's impactful. It is really impactful.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Good day, empowered investors, and welcome to episode 2129. Yes, Friday will be a 10th episode flashback Friday show all in one. So look forward to that. Now, if you're watching me on video, you might be saying, jason, what is that thing around your neck? Are you going to a costume party? What's going on? Have you become a pimp? No, none of the sort. You can't see the whole thing. So here's the rest of it. Let me introduce you to my little friend. As they say in Scarface. That was a great movie, by the way, from a long time ago, if you don't know the reference. So this is a boa constrictor? Yes. Most people don't like snakes. I'm not a huge fan. This is a fake one. But I got this to illustrate a point. You know, we all know what a boa constrictor is, right? It. What does it do? It. It goes around its victim and squeezes them. It squeezes them and then they just die or suffocate or their lungs collapse or whatever it does. I'm not an expert at boa constrictors killing people. But the point here is we have a similar situation in the real estate market because let's rename my little boa constrictor pet here. This is the market constrictor. It's got me constricted. It's choking me. Okay, what does that mean? Well, remember I've talked to you over the last several years about the poison pill the Federal Reserve has put into the housing market. The poison pill it is the market constrictor. That's what my little friend here is. We're going to call him the market constrictor. And what did he do? Well, he went out there and he gave people all of these super low interest rate mortgages to constrict the market. And then you got all these institutional buyers, all these private equity firms, hedge funds, etc, buying up single family homes. And that problem, by the way, Tom, is not as large as most people say. But it's still an issue, it's still a player in the market. And by the way, when I say it's a problem and when I say the Fed put a poison pill into the market, I don't necessarily mean that's bad. Certainly not for us as investors. Right? It's bad for people that want to buy a home. Just regular players, regular actors in the marketplace. But for investors, a lot of this stuff is actually quite good for us. So it always depends, like everything in life, what side of the table you're on. But I'm just kind of describing the situation. So the market constrictor here is strangling the housing market because nobody wants to sell their house because their deal is too darn good. I had coffee with someone this morning and we talked about how people have 2.6% mortgages. How are you ever going to talk those people into selling? Well, in Biden's sleepy, stupid State of the Union address, he talked about that, right? Or kind of addressed it. Right? I mean, listen to this folks. This is how insane the times we are living in have become. Okay, so the Biden administration is now talking about ways to bribe or incentivize people to sell their home because of the lock in effect because of that. The market constrictor. Not the boa constrictor, the market constrictor. So yeah, they're talking about giving them money to sell their home. If you're willing to sell your home and forego your cheap mortgage, we will give you what, $400 a month for a year or two, Right? That's one of the proposals out there. It's insane. I mean, if you ever doubted what I've been saying to you for the last 20 years, for 20 years I have been saying to you, the mortgage is an asset. It's a huge asset. Of course I've Been saying that in the context of inflation induced debt destruction. My trademark term inflation induced debt destruction, I dd a mouthful where you get to pay the debt back in cheaper dollars. It's the secret wealth creator. We all know that, we've talked about it forever. But it's also an asset because during tough times, the mortgage holders are the ones who get all the benefits. They get all the workouts, the short sales, the deals, right? They get all the loan modifications, the reduction where interest rates go way down or payments are deferred forbearance. I mean, just recently, during the COVID era, right, if you owned your house free and clear, did the government tell someone to give you a forbearance? No. Only the mortgage holders got the forbearance right? So use leverage, use it wisely. It's an incredible, incredible thing. Okay, so that's enough of the market constrictor. Just remember, it's not a boa constrictor, it's a market constrictor. And that's what the Federal Reserve has done to the housing market. And this market constrictor is not leaving us for 27 to 28 more years. He's going to strangle us. J is wrapping around the housing market to cause inventory to be low in supply, to be short for 27 to 28 more years. Now I should say though, the lock in effect as time goes on will reduce, it will decline in its impact. It's still going to be a big deal. It's still going to be out there because tens of millions of people have these super low rate mortgages. But they do peel off a little bit. And I'll just estimate my educated math here that about 8 million people now do not have the market constrictor. They don't have my snake here, my market constrictor. They are not subject to the lock in effect because they have market rate mortgages. Okay? So it's about 8 million. When the rates just started to go up, it was virtually nobody, right? But you know, as transactions happen and some people will just sell even if they have that incredible low mortgage. You know, life changes, whatever. They're, they're just, you know, not everybody will keep it just because the deal is so good, right? I mean certainly it's nice when you can go to a store and buy something on sale, right? You like that. But if you like the item enough, you'll just pay the retail price, right? You don't always get a deal. And so these people are foregoing the deal. They have in some cases, and you know, that'll continue to happen, but that's a nibble around the edges. It's not the main thrust of the market. The main thrust of the market is the market constrictor, the boa constrictor, the lock in effect. And that's the biggest part of the market. But as we go on through time, it will very, very slowly start to reduce impact because fewer and fewer people will be locked in. Okay, on another note, I want to talk to you about my home for most of my life, the Socialist Republic of California. It is the largest economy in the United States. If measured in gdp, I think it would be the fifth largest economy in the world. Right. So you might be thinking, well, Jason, I don't live in California. I live in some other state, one of the other 49 states, or according to Obama, the other 56 states, because he seems to think there's 57 states, whatever. Or I live in another country. Right. We have listeners in 189 countries worldwide. And by the way, I just love that. Thank you all, all around the world for listening to our stuff. We really appreciate it. All right. This video is going to blow your mind. That's one of the things also that I've been teaching you for 20 years, right? Invest in landlord friendly markets. If you want to see the complete opposite of that, go to California or New York. This is going to blow your mind. I hope you're sitting down. And if you're driving, be careful. If you're at the gym, on the treadmill, be careful because what you're about to hear is going to blow your mind. Here we go.

Oh my gosh, this is getting crazy. On February 13, the City of Santa Monica voted to approve a proposal that could change housing in California forever. For you renters and landlords, here are the highlights. This covers all housing, even non rent control buildings. If an owner increases a rental by the CPI, plus 5% or 10%, the owner must pay a relocation fee. If the renter chooses to move. If the renter vacates and claims it was due to harassment, illegal lockouts, uninhabitable conditions or other constructive situations, an owner may pay a permanent relocation fee. I can feel the extortion coming. Owners are required to offer buyout agreements no less than the city defined fee. If you try to buy a tenant out twice within six months, they can sue you. There will be a $20,000 per violation fee. Also being drafted is the inability of a landlord to evict a tenant for unpermitted work on a unit for reference. The current relocation fees are as follows. For a bachelor studio. $18,250.

Oh, my God.

One bedrooms, 25 grand and two bedrooms plus is 35,000. These stricter tenant protections brings the city of Samo into compliance with new state housing regulations, but it's also going to bring homeowners and landlords underwater. I mean, what do you think is next here for California?

That is insane. I mean, folks, can you believe that it is unbelievable how unfriendly the socialist republic of California is. I mean, look, I wanted to move for many, many years. In 2011, I finally left. And I remember when I moved to Arizona and I drove across that state line, my state income taxes declined by what, 67 or 69%. And now living in Florida, I have no state income tax. Zero. I mean, Arizona has tax, it's just much lower than California. But one way to grow your wealth faster is to stop paying for and spending money on things that you get nothing back for it. Right? And so that's one of the reasons to leave these business unfriendly, high tax environments. It may take you a while. You may have to come up with a plan. It might take five, 10 years. I mean, I wanted to leave California for many, many years, but it, it took me a while to do it, but I finally did. And I'm really happy that I did because it's just such a better situation. Okay, let me talk to you about inflation reports for just a moment and then we'll get to the part two of my interview with Dean Rogers. Okay. And that's from Monday's episode. All right, so inflation progress stalls as housing costs continue to rise year over year. Change in the consumer price index for all urban consumers. That's the CPI U. This is the most commonly quoted. You know, the. The CPI or the cpi. This the most commonly quoted one. And this chart, it shows all items. It shows the core rate, Remember that core rate that excludes food and energy, which is a complete scam because nobody can live without food or energy. Energy is cost of everything. Everything has energy costs built into it. And then the other line on the chart is excluding shelter. And what does this really show us? Well, the Fed is really struggling to get inflation under control, right? Yes, it's made some progress by tightening the money supply, by making money a lot more expensive. And housing, amazingly, has still appreciated during the most historically sudden and shocking rate increases we have ever seen. Housing has gone up in value. The most resilient asset class in world History. The most historically proven asset class in world history is income property. It also happens to be the most tax favored asset class in America. So it's pretty good. Okay, so look at this. You have got 1.8% inflation rate. When you exclude shelter, when you exclude, when you have all items, 3.2. But when you have the shelter in there, okay, and the food and energy, 3.8%, it's just shocking how high that shelter component is in the inflation calculations. So it begs the question, will the Fed really ever be able to tame inflation? This is like taking your fist and, and hitting yourself in the head. Because think about it. Let's go back to our market constrictor, our boa constrictor snake here, right? The Fed has kind of put themselves in a corner because they caused the lock in effect during the COVID era with the extremely low mortgage rates. They did that and now nobody will sell. And when I say nobody, of course is a figure of speech. Okay? But only 500,000 or so homes are for sale. In a housing market that has 140 million in its stock. That's nothing. We have housing inventory 700,000 below, easily what it should be to be in only a normal market, not a buyer's market, not a bad market, not a collapsing market for sure. We have a massive inventory shortage that just persists and persists no matter what the liars on YouTube tell you. Well, Nick Torelli, come on the show. Let's debate this. Okay? All right. So they caused that on one side, right? And now they're trying to tame inflation and solve the inflation problem. But they've got the lock in effect where they can't create more housing inventory. And because they can't create more housing inventory, sheltered costs, which are a big part of the inflation calculations. Owner's equivalent rent, it's called, are just making the CPI much, much higher and making real inflation much, much higher. Of course, the CPI massively understates inflation. I want to talk to you about the labor market. I'm kind of running out of time, so we'll talk about this on a future episode. But one thing to say is that the labor market is booming, right? And it's amazed a lot of people, just like the housing market. But part of this is really for a demographic and structural reason that I have talked about before on prior episodes. So I just want you to know that I want to make one quick statement. On the cruise yesterday, sadly, I got a message from our travel agent and he said there is literally only one room Available on the entire ship. It may well be gone by the time I say this. This was yesterday. He sent me this email. He said they had one inside cabin available. That's it. Our room block ended several weeks ago. So these are free floating rooms and prices and there are suites available. So if you want to go big and you want to have a really nice experience, there are a few of the big suites available on the ship. But on that whole ship, on the Celebrity Apex, on that beautiful ship, there is literally, as of yesterday, only one regular room. Okay? Regular price and size room. Everything else is a suite. So unless there are cancellations, that's it. If you want to come on the cruise, just go to Jason hartman.com, click through the cruise website, put your info in reserve a room, we'll try and get one for you. Maybe there will be a cancellation, maybe you'll get lucky. But as of yesterday, literally one room available. That's it. Also for you cruisers, we do have a zoom meeting next week and, and I sent you all a calendar invite on that. So we look forward to seeing you there. For everybody else, we do have a zoom meeting today and the second Wednesday of every month on a market highlight. So this will be Northwest Indiana today. If you're not able to make it or you don't hear this episode in time, just reach out to your investment counselor and they can probably get you the recording of today's zoom meeting. Okay. All right, without further ado, let's get to my interview with Dean Rogers. So if you are a buy and hold landlord investor, rents are going up, folks. They have temporarily decelerated a bit to like the pre pandemic levels, they're still rising, but not as much as they were before. And in the apartment market, which is suffering a lot because there was just too much inventory built and a lot of it hitting the market at the same time. Rents are definitely softening in apartment complex plexus, but not single family homes.

Okay.

And I say the rents in single family homes are going up a lot more than they are today. Okay.

Yeah. So it's getting my mind spinning here, thinking about a couple things. So we talked about the market, right? It doesn't seem like you think the market's gonna crash.

Not yet.

Okay.

Someday.

So what are your thoughts then? You know, like we keep hearing about the 10 to 12 year cycle of a run up on a market and then a crash. And the crash happens for two years, starts to reboot, starts to pick up steam, and another 10 or 12 years in a crash we're overdue for a crash according to the numbers.

Yeah, I've heard that before. So here's what I say. That's sort of the Austrian school business cycle theory is where that kind of comes from. Right. And the past does not equal the future. Okay. That whole cycle idea, you know, I think you have to really chart that properly. Right. We went in such a low during the Great Recession 2008, that I don't think you can really start that clock until about 2012, when things normalized a bit, number one. And then Covid was such an anomaly and changed things so much because we saw, literally, believe it or not, I'm going to say this, the lowest interest rates in 5,000 years. I know you think I'm nuts, right? There actually is a great book. I wanted to interview this guy in my show. I've had many great authors and thought leaders on my show over the years on my podcast and YouTube channel, but this one passed away and I didn't get him on the show before he. He had an untimely demise. David Graeber wrote a fantastic book called debt the first 5,000 years. It's a really good read. I highly recommend it. Debt the first 5,000 years. And there are interest rate surveys going back to ancient Egypt, believe it or not. So that was the lowest interest rates in 5,000 years during COVID And that just reset everything. That just changed everything. That idea that the market's long on the tooth and it's time for a correction. It depends. I mean, look, if inventory was overflowing, we would be having a correction, but it's. We're far from that. So this is just another way of expressing that chart I showed you earlier about the distribution of mortgages, of existing mortgages out there. What are the interest rates on those mortgages? You see here in the blue, we have a lot of people below 3%, a whole bunch more below 4%, and we have hardly anybody at rates at, you know, hovering around 6%. Very few people have those mortgages. But here's what I didn't tell you before. That is also very important. Number one, if you want to have a real estate crash, there is one ingredient you must have, and that is millions of distressed sellers. So very unlikely to get much distress with super low interest rates with very affordable mortgages. But what I didn't tell you is that 42% of the country has no mortgage at all. They are free and clear. It's really hard to go into foreclosure when you don't have A mortgage. And it's also really hard to go into foreclosure and be a desperate seller when your mortgage is 3 or 4%. But you know what makes it even harder is the next chart. When you have a lot of equity and there's a lot of equity in the market right now. In addition to the 42% of people who have no mortgage at all, let's look at the folks that do have mortgages and see what their loan to value ratio is. You see that the vast majority of the country has 40% or more equity in their house. They have a lot of equity. They have a lot of skin in the game. They have a lot of reason not to walk away from that. If you go back to the Great Recession and leading up to it, in 2005, 2006, 2007, people had no equity. They had loans that they got by lying. Their income wasn't verified, their credit didn't matter much. The whole mortgage market back then was built on fraud. Anybody who's taken out a mortgage since the Great Recession knows that it is insanely difficult to get a loan. They know that those banks have learned their lesson. And the vast, vast, vast majority, 95% of these loans are so tightly underwritten that these borrowers out there are just high quality borrowers and they have a lot of equity in the property. Okay, look at the rest of this. These people have 61 to 70% LTV on their property. Hardly anybody is underwater. This is the red over 100% or more, you know, meaning that they're over leveraged. You can't even see it on the chart. There's like nobody has that problem. And 91 to 100% LTV, you know, you got a small number of those, but hardly any. This is not. If all of these people and those people and even these people went into foreclosure, that wouldn't be enough to have the sink overflow in my metaphor. Right? So you just don't have a problem with equity. You don't have a problem with expensive mortgages. And look at this one. This is the credit scores of mortgage holders at time of origination. These are golden high quality borrowers. Look at all the people that had a credit score, a fico score of 760 or more. I mean, that's an insanely good FICO score. Look at them. This is the vast majority of the mortgage holders out there. And then there's another big swath. 720 to 759. That's a golden credit score. Too. And then you get into some of the lower scores and you see hardly any of the mortgages have these lower credit scores. If you looked at this chart back to the Great Recession, which we can do, you see here, look at how different it looks than today. Much better quality borrowers. So the likelihood of having millions and millions of distressed sellers dumping their properties onto the market is very, very low. Okay. The population trends say that there is a massive amount of demand for to purchase homes and to rent homes. The immigration shows us that too. Here's owner occupied housing units in the United States, 83 million of them. Okay. The share of homes purchased by investors. Lots of investors interested in the market. This is an interesting article I clipped. This is from Calculated Risk, which is a great source. Inflation adjusted house prices are 3.6% below their peak in the Great Recession. Everybody thinks they're so expensive, but you adjust for inflation and they're actually cheaper. Okay, and look at this. This really is a super important chart because this shows the construction of houses, right? Of new home construction. And you can see that leading into the Great Recession we were overbuilding. There were just way too many homes and not enough demand. But since then, the money for development dried up. The builders got very cautious and very conservative. And There has been 13 straight years where construction is below the half century average. So that's the shortage, a massive shortage of new homes. And Dean, like we were talking about earlier, this shortage is so much more acute, so much more pronounced, so much worse in the entry level housing market. Everything we've talked about is just the overall market. It includes million dollar houses, it includes $2 million houses, it includes $800,000 houses. Show me the glut of supply of 300 $400,000 houses. Even if you even call those entry level right, there is just a massive shortage of these properties. Now based on Baselane, our sponsor, it is the number one banking platform built for real estate investors. It's banking online, rent collection, bookkeeping, tax reporting analytics and more. You can enjoy real time cash flow analytics on your properties. You can get ready for tax season with automated bookkeeping and financial statements ready for your CPA. Join more than 40,000 real estate investors who trust Baselane to manage their rental property finances. Go to Baselane.com Jason for a chance to win a $500Amazon gift card. So I'll show you one more thing. This is a software I've been using for years. I liked it so much I actually bought the company and it's called Property Tracker. It's Free. So anyone listening can just go get this free software, propertytracker.com you can make these great performas on any property. It takes like just a minute to evaluate a property. You'll become very good at evaluating deals whether they're good, bad, so, so whatever, right? Just go to propertytracker.com get this software and it just gives you all of the numbers in one simple pro forma. Look at this one. This is a property we have for sale now. It's a brand new property, okay? In one of our really hot Alabama markets, okay? Brand new house. It is just 265,000 bucks and it's got a projected return on investment of 35 annually. Now a lot of people think, oh my gosh, is this guy kidding? If they don't know how to do the math, they think that's outrageous. Right? Who's earning 34%? Well, real estate investors are because income property has multidimensional returns. You earn your return in a lot of different ways. I mean, think about it. When someone buys cryptocurrencies, precious metals or non dividend paying stocks, that is a one dimensional game. The whole game. Buy low, sell high, end of discussion. That's it, right? If that doesn't happen, you're not making money. Dividend paying stock, buy low, get some dividends in between, sell high, then you're winning, right? Two dimensions. But income, property, multi dimensional leverage income, principal reduction, mortgage pay down by your tenant, inflation induced debt destruction, tax benefits, I mean it's just such a great investment. It's just multidimensional. It's the most historically proven asset class in the entire world. I hope that really helps people kind of understand what's going on in the market and why it hasn't crashed and why it does not look like there is any crash on the horizon. Certainly there will be someday. Things always change. The pendulum goes back and forth. But right now there's no inventory. Okay, so that's where we are.

Yeah. That's amazing. Again, I think all the information, all the data, the history behind it, the reasons why, is why I enjoyed your presentation so much and why I thought it was going to be so valuable for the listeners. Because you got to support what you're saying with facts. And the facts are, you know, there's the golden handcuffs on most of the people in homeownership right now and the quality of the borrowers and the inventory levels, everything that you went through just supports the fact that the market's going to be probably not only stable, but continue to Appreciate. Now, what are your thoughts? Maybe we can end with this and hear your theories. What are your thoughts on interest rates? I know this is another hot topic. What are your thoughts on that?

That's the hardest one of all. I have made a lot of predictions on my show over the years and my podcast has been running for 18 years now. So people can just go back and listen to episode number 37. Right. And they can see if I was right or if I sounded like an idiot. Right. The only major thing I predicted that I didn't get right was interest rates. And they are super hard to predict because they're not really. You can't predict them based on market forces. We have a centrally planned economy and the chairman of the Federal Reserve controls the interest rates. Okay. And the fomc. So it's really hard to predict interest rates. But I'll give you a source for interest rates, and that's Grant's Interest Rate Observer. That's sort of the big wig in the interest rate world. Okay. You might want to get him on your show if you can. I haven't been able to get him, but good luck. Anyway. There's a, you know, an expensive newsletter that does some interest rate forecasting and stuff, but if I have my two cents on it, I would say that the Fed might raise one more time. I think they're crazy. I think they should have pivoted already. And then they will push us into a formal recession at some point and then they'll pivot and they'll start lowering rates again. And I think mortgage rates will settle somewhere in the 5% range, somewhere in that ballpark. If I, if I had to guess, that's where it would be. But it's very hard to predict interest rates. I mean, I can tell you what's going to happen with prices, with rents, supply and demand. But interest rates are really tough. But you know, here's the thing. Most of the people, when they talk about real estate, they talk about it in terms of prices, like what are the prices going to go up or down? Right. And that's myopic. The reason is, is that if you are a buy and hold investor, which is the best kind of investor to be, in my opinion, you don't really care that much. What you care about is yield, cash flow, income. What are those doing? And I teach a strategy that people can, they can just go to Jason hartman.com, type in three dimensions of real estate on my search engine, on my website on jason hartman.com and listen to the episodes where I talk about this, I teach this strategy that prices and rents are non correlating indicators. And so when you see the housing market booming and people first time buyers moving out of the rental pool into the buying pool and buying their first home, then you tend to see rents soften. But when you see not many people buying either because of lack of inventory or low affordability, then you see generally prices soften, which is not doing now. I mean, prices have gone up about 8% year over year, right? As everybody said, oh, there's gonna be a crash. I can't wait till it's 30% cheaper. I'm gonna buy everything. Yeah, you missed out. Sorry, sorry. Crash, bro, your Chicken little philosophy just hasn't worked for you in 15 years. Congratulations, you totally missed out, right? You know, investors, guess what investors do, they invest. That's what they do, right? They just look for the best deal they can at the time when they've got extra capital and they invest. They just constantly do that. And all these other folks are trying to time the market and they're just wrong, over and over again. And they just keep missing out. And most of them are just jealous. And so they go on my YouTube channel and they troll me and they write how stupid I am and they're just jealous because they missed out and everybody else got rich, who took action, who had the confidence, the courage and they got in the game. They just keep missing out. That's the human condition, unfortunately. But what you see when you have this soft buying market is you see more upward pressure on rents. Remember that number, every 1% decline in the homeownership rate is 1 million new renters. Unless you decrease the supply of people or increase the supply of housing, it doesn't matter what they do with interest rates so much, it doesn't matter. Nothing else matters. People have to have a place to live, right? That's it. And a common mistake, Dean, people make is they make this mistake of thinking, well, Jason, okay, so if the prices are so high and affordability is so low, well, how are people going to be able to afford to buy a house and support the market? Or how are they going to be able to afford to rent a house and rent it from me? Well, here's the mistake they're making. It's a giant mistake. They keep assuming it's the same person, right? They assume the person today that affords fifteen hundred dollars a month in rent when you raise your rent and their income stagnates and they keep falling behind, they can no longer afford your house and they have to move down the socioeconomic ladder and a new person that was higher on the ladder moves down into your house. And the same thing happens in the rental market or the buying market. Inflation is the destroyer of wealth for these people. It enriches people who understand it and it destroys people who don't understand it. So they simply, their standard of living is diminished. They have a lower standard of living. And it's a terrible, sad thing, but it's just the way it is. That's what inflation does to people. It's a thief. It destroys their standard of living.

Well, a closing thought here that stood out to me when you talked about the inflation induced debt destruction. It's completely out of our control. The economy around the central banks and government and how they move the economy with inflation and with interest rates and all of that is completely out of our control. But if we know how to play the game, then we can come out on the other side in a good position. So go buy income producing assets, real estate, and that'll put you in a good spot.

Yeah, and use property tracker to analyze them. Just go get a free account. I mean, you know, we have paid accounts. You can pay like 30 bucks a month or whatever with a free account. You can do lots of stuff. Okay. You can analyze deals. The one advice is the property must make sense the day you buy it. All the horror stories you hear in real estate are people that bought a property that didn't make sense the day they bought it. They were expecting something extraordinary to happen, bunch of appreciation that didn't happen and things went badly. So just buy good, sensible properties and keep doing that over time. You all know lots of people who've gotten rich in real estate. You probably don't know anybody who got rich in the stock market or got rich buying gold or, you know, anything else. Right. But you know lots of people that got rich in real estate. Why do you think that is? Because it's a special kind of asset class. Thank you so much for listening. Listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don't miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show's specific website and our general website, hartman media.com for appropriate disclaimers and terms of service. Remember that guest opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice or advice in any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to itunes or Stitcher radio or whatever platform you're using and write a review for the show. We would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.