2144: Behind the Numbers: Insights from Institutional Players on Real Estate Trends with Lance Lambert Part 2

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Welcome, empowered investors. It is episode 2144 and thank you for joining us. Today we've got a continuation of our discussion with Lance Lambert from Resi Club. This is a great discussion and you're going to learn some good stuff today. But before that, I got just a couple of quick things for you. Number one, when I'm thinking of all these people that I have met throughout the years, and you've met them all too. Maybe you've been one of them sometimes. I've certainly been one of them sometimes. And that is one of these three types of people. Hopefully you're in the right category at least most of the time when you play the game of life. Because life is not a spectator sport. Life is a participation sport, right? Spectators don't get anything. It's this old cliche. It's an old saying. There are three types of people. Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who wonder what happened. And when I think of all the people over the years that I have met who have had all of their reasons for skepticism about investing in the most historically proven asset class in the entire world, that is of course, income, property. They've got all their reasons. And you know what? Some of their reasons are actually logical and they make sense. But just because they're logical and make sense doesn't mean their prediction or their action plan is going to be the right plan. Because when you jump into life and you participate, you're going to fail, you're going to have setbacks, it's going to be messy. One of my favorite poems that I've shared with you before is by Og Mandino. And it's. I don't know that it's really a poem necessarily, but it's like a five minute long whole list of what you should do in life. It's from the great book called Mission Success. And it's that five minute passage from the book called Seeds of Success. And one of the things that says is I will take off my coat and make dust in the world, right? You've got to just dive in to life and all of its messiness. And you know, a lot of these deals, as the saying goes, they have hair on them, right? You know, there's this thing and that thing. Look, if it were easy, everybody would do it. There'd be no competition, everybody would jump in, they would be buying properties, everybody would be a landlord and nobody would be a tenant, right? But obviously there is a barrier to entry and the barrier to entry to everything in life, not just this, is not only financial, right? You do have to have some capital to get in the game, right? No question about that. But most of it is the barrier right here between our ears. That is our biggest obstacle. Overcoming our own reluctance, overcoming our own concerns, just overcoming ourselves. One of these great quotes that I have been thinking about since I was really about 16 years old, maybe 17 years old, and I think it's by Jack Parr, I could be wrong about that. But the quote is this. My life seems like one long obstacle course with me as the chief obstacle. And isn't that the truth for all of us? We are our own biggest obstacle. All of the doomers, all of the crash bros, they have all their reasons. But the reality is, and history has proven this time and time again, is that those who just get in the game and actually do things and actually take action and they don't sit there trembling in fear, they have enough self confidence to just get into it. And they know that no matter what, they're just going to figure it out along the way. You'll never figure out everything beforehand. I mean, there are so many metaphors for this in life. I remember when I was learning to be a pilot and I'm taking pilot lessons and the first lesson I took was at John Wayne Airport, sna Orange County Airport, Southern California. I don't even know if they allow general aviation there anymore. They probably don't. Because at the time, all of the different flight instructors I had told me that that was the busiest training airport in the entire world. And what that means is, you know, a lot of big airports, they don't allow general aviation. They don't allow little planes. You can't take off in a Cessna or a Cirrus from, you know, major airports, right from lax. You're not going to be able to do that because it's just too much problems and confusion. And so John Wayne Airport was like the hardest airport to learn. But they all said to me the same thing, you know, if you can do it here, you can do it anywhere. And I think it was Art link letter. He used to actually have like a prayer that said, God, please give me one more problem. And when he didn't have enough problems in his life, he thought, you don't love me, God. You're not giving me problems. You're not giving me challenges to overcome and to make me grow, you know, and this is the thing. So no matter where you are in life, we're obviously all in different places. When I started out, I was living at home. I did not have my own house. I did not own a house, okay? I never bought a house. And I started out in real estate thinking I'm going to be a big real estate investor. So to start out, I got my agent's license and started working at Century 21. At age 19, I was going to college part time at Cypress College in Southern California. And so I would go take my classes in the morning and then, you know, around midday I would show up at the office, the smoke filled office when people used to smoke in the office. That was disgusting. And I would start selling real estate. And everybody in the office thought, who is this stupid kid? Are you kidding me? This is ridiculous. You know, we're established professionals world or we're mature. And, you know, in my first full month in the business, I sold five properties. And all of these agents that had been doing it for years looked around and thought, you know, who is this obnoxious, cocky kid? And the only real difference was that I had confidence in myself and I didn't have much to lose, okay? Because I was starting from nowhere basically. And I didn't know anybody in town. You know, I didn't have any, like, family connections or anything like that. I knew nobody, okay? The only person literally in Orange county that I knew that was of age to sell, you know, to buy or sell real estate was my own mother, okay? And so the other difference was this. And I think it was a result of that confidence. And that is the fact that I showed up and I actually did the work, right? I placed ads in the newspaper, little classified ads with my own little amount of money I had. People would call on the ads and I jumped in my brand new, the first new car I ever bought, Volkswagen Jetta. And I showed them around and my car payment was 189amonth for a five year loan on that Volkswagen Jetta. Okay, and so you get that the reference is interesting, right? And I just did the work. I just knew that if I just worked the numbers right, I would eventually sell some properties. And I sure did. Sold a lot of them. And I did the same thing nine months later when I became a REMAX agent. You know, I had the same reaction at that office. You know, I was just before my 21st birthday then I guess, you know, I wasn't even old enough to drink now that I didn't drink anyway. But, you know, I just went out and did it. And it's like there's so many people watching things happen. There are so many people that wonder what happened and they have all these reasons and all these excuses, but the world belongs to the people that do things. That's it. I mean, if there is no other wisdom in life, if there is no other great thing that you learn from listening to my YouTube channel or my podcast, that's it. That's what separates the haves from the have nots, is the people who make things happen. Take off your coat and make dust in the world. That's the difference. That is. That is the one fundamental difference and the reason that's the difference. I think it. Well, it's many reasons. It's the difference. But one of the big reasons is the difference is because those people never understand it all before they start. You can't. There will be no thing in life that you will master from a textbook or a lecture. The only way anybody achieves mastery is by doing the thing. You got to do the thing. There's just so many more inputs into your sensory awareness and your consciousness that happens from doing the thing than from learning the thing. Learning the thing is, okay, you got to learn some things for sure, but you will never learn more than you will by doing the thing. So there are three kinds of people. Those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who wonder what happened. You know, which category you need to be, right? Okay, the other thing I want to show you before we dive into. The main part of our show today is this chart. It's from an interview I did yesterday that we'll publish soon. And that was when reports on housing, Stephen Thomas, he was back on the show for the second time. I recorded that yesterday. And he had this great chart and he talked about it and he. He compared it to his daughter's Girl Scout cookies. So with the Girl Scout cookies, right, you have like anything, you have supply and demand. And if you're not a good salesperson and you're not taking action and you're not a person who makes things happen. Right. That's why selling Girl Scout cookies is good training for life, right? It certainly is. If you're not that person, then you're going to end up with a glut of inventory. And when you have a glut of inventory, the only way you're going to move that inventory is to cut the price, Right? So that is simply going to make things eventually sell, because at the right price, everything sells, right? There's always a price for everything. You lowered enough and it'll sell well. In terms of the real estate market, what does this mean for us? Well, for those of you looking on video, you see the chart, but for those not, this chart starts in 1983 and it's from NAR, National association of Realtors. It is basically a chart showing supply versus scarcity. And you see now that anytime since 1983, inventory, except for the couple of little blips during the COVID era, inventory is lower now than it's ever been since 1983. So what's going to happen to the price of those Girl Scout cookies? Well, obviously, even after tripling the cost of mortgage money on this incredible asset class that we all love so much, the most historically proven asset class in the world, income, property, most tax favored asset class in the United States, we have extremely low inventory. And that's why the crash just won't come. As much as the Doomers and the Crash Bros want to see the crash, it just isn't happening. Now. Inventory, you know, it ticks up a little bit in a little range, Tom, but it's got to tick up a whole lot before we're going to have that crash they're all dreaming of. So just thought I'd share that with you before we start. Okay, let's go to our guest, Lance Lambert with Resi Club.

But even if mortgage rates fall a percentage point from today, it's still going to be here. And even if they fall 2 percentage points, so down to 5%, there would still be some type of lock in effect for the next decade. So there's going to be a lot fewer existing home sales than there would have been had the pandemic and all the policies and everything that happened during the pandemic not occurred.

It's just staggering. It's a very different kind of world nowadays folks, because of these long term fixed rate, you know, 30 year mortgages. So Lance, one of the counterintuitive things that I've been saying is that, and this is what people have not understood very well is that most people think, and they're right in most scenarios in the past, right. If you look at history and you say, hey, rates have gone way up, affordability has gone way down, that's going to crash the market. But what they didn't consider is all of the existing mortgages that literally became more valuable as rates went up. Because when the delta gets bigger, that existing mortgage at the low rate becomes even more valuable to the person who has it. Yeah, and this is something people have not understood very well. I've been beating the drum for a couple of years and the people who got it wrong are the ones that said, hey, here's the experience a new home buyer has coming into the elevated interest rate market. We have elevated prices, elevated rates, they can't afford it. It's tragic for them. But what they didn't really think about is how it was for all of the existing people, which is 130 million plus houses. Well, a lot of them didn't have mortgages at all. So that's not accurate. But 60% of them do have mortgages. And assuming a large percentage of those have the low rate mortgages, that's the component that mattered because that's where most of the inventory would have come from if we didn't have the lock in effect.

And in terms of like that piece of it, Morgan Stanley, they've named it, this phenomenon, which is last cycle the homeowners were essentially the weekends, right? There were so many people in that pool that had distress that, you know, they, they should have been in the pool, right? They were given mortgages they shouldn't have had. So some of their payments rose over time. And so they were the weaker hands. This cycle Morgan Stanley says that the homeowners are the stronger hands. You know, different lending, they got these fixed rates, 2, 3%. You know, last cycle there was a lot of people who were just walk away, hand the keys back in. It was cheaper for them to go rent than pay on that mortgage that.

Was under and now it's cheaper to keep your mortgage and not. It's more expensive to go rent, which is. Yeah, right.

If I left here and had to go rent something, I would get something much smaller and pay more. It's a different cycle. And you know, you can't just take what happened the last cycle and say it's going to happen this cycle because at the end of the day, to move house prices down, you need a lot of supply and you need a particular type of supply, which is they are selling and they are not buying something else. So even if the lock in effect were to ease up, let's say mortgage rates come down, the people who would be unlocked are people who have 2, 3, 4% mortgage rates would be like, you know what, they've come down to five. That's low enough. I've had another kid. I'm moving on with my life. I'm selling and buying something else.

Right, right.

When they sell, they're going to go buy. They're a seller and a buyer.

I'm so glad you mentioned that because then that does not increase inventory. Right. It's a trade. And these people, the things you didn't mention is, number one, those people have a lot of equity, number one. And number two, they were underwritten under very strict mortgage underwriting guidelines and they have fantastic credit. You look at the credit scores of the existing mortgage pool out there and. And these people are. It's the complete opposite of distress.

And what's going to happen to a good number of those homes is they are going to become accidental landlords where they're just the new cohort of accidental landlords. Some of the people, 2, 3%, they're going to realize that their mortgages were actually assets and get into it. Some of them will like it. Some of them realize they got in over their heads. But we will see some of that. But that going back to that point of why the type of supply matters is, the last cycle, that cascading drop in home prices was because there was a lot of people who were foreclosing or short selling or walking away. And that was just supply. Right. They did not reenter the market to buy. They were going to rent. They were going to live with relatives, roommates. Like it was just very different dynamics.

Yeah. Very different dynamic. And Lance has highlighted a comment here from the FHFA report that says absent a dramatic decrease in mortgage rates, it looks like the lock in effect could be with us for a long time. And I completely agree. Before we get to the, the commission lawsuit and the changes in the real estate industry. The one thing I would like you to address is rents because we also have a strange dynamic in the rental market. And of course our listeners are investors. They'd love to see rents go up, but rents have kind of stagnated. And I'd say that there's maybe, I don't know the number, but it's just anecdotal, but 15%, 20% of the renter pool could kind of go either way. Most of them, of course, they'd rather have a single family home, but if the deal is good enough, they'll take an apartment. And the apartment market is so oversupplied now and it is weighing on the would be rent increases that we might otherwise see because the overlap of the single family to apartment market and the apartment market's going to take, you know, the multifamily housing market is going to take a couple of years to recover. So I think we are unfortunately seeing some of the results of the multifamily housing market affecting the single family market to a small degree, but it's there.

Your thoughts exactly. So the weakness in the market, especially in residential, is the multifamily stuff where there was a lot of projects that were under the works that were out there and there was a lot more that were financed when rates were ultra low. And as those move through the pipeline and that goes out there, it's creating and will probably create more weakness. Now the thing that matters for single family is that a lot of that multifamily that's under construction is in certain areas and in certain markets. Right. A lot of the boom towns like Phoenix and Nashville and Austin are seeing the most and they've seen more of the weakness in terms of multifamily rents. This is Zillow data and this is whole year, year over year. So peak to trough. Some of these can actually be a little like Austin is down three and a half year per year.

That's three and a half percent in rents.

Yeah. For more, just multi now keep the trough. They're actually down 7 because from the top reading of 2022. But I don't want to get into that too much. But so multi has seen more weakness than single and single has seen a deceleration and has seen more weakness in the boomtowns where there is a lot of that multifamily supply. But single family is holding up much better. The multi.

Yeah, I, I agree. I do think the multifamily is starting to affect It a little bit, though.

Yeah. And, and so I think where it matters the most for single family is if your property that you're investing in is in an area where your type of renter is in direct competition with that type of single family home. That's when it matters. Right. Because if the rents are falling on the multi side, they're offering a lot of incentives and stuff like that, and that's enticing your type of renter. That's where it probably has more of an impact on you.

Yeah. So let me just read off a couple of the numbers here, because we are still up and making nice gains on rents. They're just not as great as they used to be. So 2021, I'm just looking at overall US single family home rents up a whopping 13%. That's incredible. And 2022, 8.5% and then 2023, moderating, but still very good at 4.6%.

So all things considered especially, yeah, very.

Very solid rent increases. I mean, you know, for 20 years I've been telling people the goal is to raise rents 4% annually. So we're ahead of that still. But again, everybody in their mind does the. Compared to what? And they, you know, they get spoiled. Right. It's not as good as it used to be. That's just, you know, that's just the reality of it. But, Lance, talk to us a little bit about where this rental data comes from, because I have never found single family rental data to be that great on apartments. You know, they survey these, you know, John Burns and all the rest of them. Right. They survey big apartment owners and it's pretty easy to get the data. Single family is much harder.

You know. You know, actually, the way that I like to track single family and I do this Zillow data, which I like the Zillow data, but I also like to just read through the earnings reports of the institutional players, imitation homes. American Homes for Rent. Yeah, they of course, play different than the, you know, mom and pop landlord types. But how I track rents is I look at the multifamily data from Zillow, I look at the single family data from Zillow, and then I like to look through the earnings reports of like, invitation Homes and American Homes for Rent. Because one thing about invitation in American Homes for Rent is that they buy the same type of homes and then the homes in the portfolio are the same. So what I don't like as much are some of the, like the listing sites. And I don't want to name names that put out rent reports. But some of theirs get skewed by mix shift. Right. Like if what's on the market for rent is changes, then that's going to throw those numbers all over the place. So I found that the Zillow numbers tend to be a little like they're less volatile. And then I like those Invitation and American Homes for Rent because I know it's the same group of homes.

Yeah. And we didn't used to have that because they weren't really that significant in terms of, you know, institutional players in the market. And they, you know, they, they weren't years ago, they weren't public, they didn't publish data like they do now and all that kind of stuff. So, so that really is handy to have. And they are much better at raising rents than mom and pop landlords are. So their presence in the single family home market pushes rent comps up. So I think investors ought to just be happy the institutional players are here. And a lot of people complain about them and say they, they're crappy landlords too. So you can provide a better experience as a mom and pop investor. So that's going to be good for you.

Now, I don't know if we want to get into the institutional side too much, but I have a lot of data. Data there as well.

Yeah, a little bit. Just touch on it for us.

What we've essentially seen there is that during the pandemic housing boom during that frenzy and liquidity was sloshing around everywhere, there was a good amount of an uplift in the institutional buying. But really things have gotten a lot more constrained since then. This is tricon, which last quarter Blackstone just bought. This is imitation homes. Same thing went up a lot during the pandemic frenzy and then came down. You see this real big spike up there in 2023 that is because of the multifamily and office stress for Starwood, that Starwood offloaded 1900 homes to invitation.

Homes because of the stress they had with their office properties.

Yes, exactly. So, you know, I'm reading that. That's my view based on all the, the earnings reports that I've read.

And that's a very reasonable view and I'm glad you mentioned that because sometimes a seller, even a mom and pop seller, becomes distressed not because of the good properties they have in their portfolio. Those are performing great, but they have some other stressor in their life or their portfolio that causes them to need to sell the good asset. Right. And so that's a very good point.

Yeah, and, and that goes to the economy at large right now too, where homeowners themselves are in a fairly good spot. So the stress that's getting added and the homeowners who could get in trouble, it's probably on their credit card side or other stuff like that. Whereas it's not like directly the mortgage debt. This.

Right, yep. I agree, I agree. And they have an awful lot of equity. Anything else on the institutional before we just talk about the industry to wrap.

It up, I think one more thing to show because just because it's really hard to find this, and this is actually something I only give to my premium audience, but I'll share it here.

I went around, I talked about this on my show. Yeah, it's a great chart.

So I went around to everybody and I, you know, I went to Fannie Mae, went to Freddie Mac, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, not everybody answered, But I got 11 research firms to give me their estimate whether the US energy market is underbuilt or overbuilt. And of all of these it comes out to an average of like 2.8 million under built. Underbuilt. Yeah. So Zonda is the lowest at a million estimate. Underbuilt, that's the shortage is 4.4 million for underbuilt. And then the interesting one is like realtor.com where they think that the US housing market is under built by 2.3 million units, but they think that single family is Underbuilt by like 5 million and that multi is overbuilt, which is kind of interesting. But generally speaking, if you look through a lot of the numbers in these reports, most of them think that most of the underbuilding is on the single family side.

That's interesting. So all of these 11 major firms, Fannie Mae, Zillow, etcetera realtor.com, zonda, which is real estate research market software and so forth, J.P. morgan, Morgan Stanley, national association of Realtors, Freddie Mac, bank of America, Zillow, they all think the US housing market has a shortage. It is underbuilt by between 1 million and 4.4 million homes. Zonda is the outlier. Really? Their estimates very low. So this bodes well for investors who are in the market and are buying now.

Because in one thing that I did here with this analysis is I only included their conservative estimates. So like Morgan Stanley, you see there, they think the US housing market is underbuilt by 2 million homes. That's their conservative estimate. Their aggressive model thinks that we're under built by up to 6 million. Wow.

I wish you would do a chart on the aggressive model. Maybe comparison with two different colors. That would be a good one for you. Lance, do you want to talk about the industry with this big change in the NAR settlement and these real estate firms and the class action lawsuits over commissions and so forth a little bit and what changes that might mean?

Yeah. Before we get into it though, I just want to make a point, which is US housing market, his affordability has gotten strained. And so a lot of would be homebuyers can't afford to buy, and a lot of homeowners who would like to sell and go buy something else, they can't afford it either. And so resale transactions are fairly low in the market right now. And I think what that creates is a good amount of angst where, you know, politicians are probably feeling the pressure. And the thing about housing is that housing affordability is not easy to fix. Right. It's a hard problem to fix, but what is very easy is scapegoating. And that's one thing politicians love to do. And so I think what we're going to see a lot of over the next six months is probably some scapegoating at the housing sector at different stakeholders, whether it's Airbnb host, whether it's single family landlords, homeowners themselves.

Institutional. Exactly. So we're going to see a lot of that. Now, what's happening on the real estate agent side with DOJ going after the national association of Realtors and all these lawsuits. This is kind of like a multi decade thing where there's been a feeling among some economists and different actors within the, you know, real estate that the commissions in the United States are too high. And so I, I think that's what this is. And it's just kind of come to a, a critical tension point. So with the proposed NAR settlement, I think one thing we've already seen is a ton of misinformation by the media because the reason is they don't understand. Right. And some of that is because they haven't paid enough attention. And the other part is nobody really knows quite how this is all going to shake out. Right. It could be a multi decade thing. You know, JP Morgan put out an estimate this week. They think that commissions over several years will fall 30%. You know, it'll increase existing home sales and turnover by 7%.

Why would it increase turnover? That's interesting.

Because sellers and homeowners would have lower switching cost.

Oh, okay. Yeah, the, the transaction costs are pretty High. So that would make the market possibly more liquid. Kind of like discount brokers in the stock market, where basically you can now trade for free. Pretty much probably brought more people into the market.

Exactly. So that's the thinking there. Now, that doesn't mean that. So, you know, if that even occurs, that still would not make up for all of the switching costs that have gone the opposite direction because of the lock in effect. Because switching costs are actually, you know, historically high right now because of the lock in effect, people up to 3% mortgage rates and what that new mortgage would cost at 7%. But yeah, the thinking is if commissions go down, sellers would benefit from lower switching cost. But in terms of how it's all going to play out, it'll be interesting. One thing that we've heard from some of the politicians and some of the media is that buyers are big winners. I'd like to know how you think about it, but I don't really see it that way.

I, I don't think so. I think, I think who, who is the big winner in this case? The lawyers. As always, the lawyers are going to win everything. But what's going to happen is the multiple listing service is going to just become a mess. I mean, this is a mess. It's going to be so much harder to do business now in the real estate world.

You're talking about like the hoarding of the listings.

Yes, because, you know, now what we're going to see is we're going to see the data and it's going to be, it's going to make your job harder because the data is now going to get a lot more siloed. And all of these big real estate companies are going to have their own MLS's because you can fix prices in your own company. You just can't talk to your competitors about fixing prices. That's antitrust. That's illegal. And so, you know, what they're going to do is there's going to be, I think, a lot more consolidation in real estate. I think a lot of these smaller brokerages are going to get bought up by bigger brokerages, bigger fish. And the bigger fish are going to have their own MLS systems. So, you know, now as a buyer, you're not going to be able to see everything with one agent anymore. You're going to have to go to Keller Williams to see their stuff. You're going to have to go to ReMax to see their stuff. Yes, there will be some cooperation, but there's going to be now a whole lot of friction in that cooperation. And the lenders are going to have to adjust somehow. Adjust the way they do financing to pay a buyer's agent commission.

Yeah.

So it's going to be a mess. And the net result, I think, and nobody knows yet because none of this goes into effect for a few more months. And even then we won't know because it's going to take a long time to play out. But it's going to be a lot harder to buy a house that I can say without a doubt. That's just going to make a lot more friction for buyers and buyer's agents. And so, I mean, look, it's hard enough to buy a house now. I mean, yes, affordability is a problem, but I'm not even addressing that. I'm just saying shopping for a house is hard work. Like that is a lot of work to go shop for a house. It's such a big investment. And if you're a. I'm talking about a regular home owner occupant, I'm not talking about an investor that's easier because it's not emotional. But it's already hard enough to shop for a house and it just got a lot harder. And so a lot of people are just not going to bother and they're just going to stay renting. And I think that's going to put upward pressure on rents. That's my view.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. And it's a tough one because there's a lot of uncertainty. There's still a lot of these legal cases. We don't even know where the DOJ stands on all of us. Right. Because the thing about that NAR settlement, it's a proposed settlement.

Yeah. Right.

And you would think that it would need a regulatory sign off.

Yeah, yeah, it. Well, you know, certainly the court has to sign off on it and they got to make sure that the class is getting its share. And of course, the law firms are getting their share. You know, don't you love it, Lance, when you get these notices of, oh, you're in a class action and they're suing, you know, Verizon and the law firm made $40 million and you get a free phone charger if you ever bother to redeem it, you know, or here's 50 cents, it's like so ridiculous. But that's, that's the world we live in. So, yeah, it's going to be just fascinating to see this play out. And I don't know what's going to happen. You know, I could be totally wrong, but I think for sure it's going to be a lot harder to buy a house. It's just going to become a much bigger hassle if the agents can't like publish the commissions that they're pay to the cooperating agent anymore.

Yeah, that makes sense. Anything else you want to jump into?

No, I. Lance, your work is so great. I just want to commend you on all of the great work you do and all of the great stuff you put out. Glad to have you on the show. Thank you for sharing all of this. Go ahead and give out your website.

Yeah, Jason, thank you for having me on. Big fan of your work as well. If people want to read my newsletter, they could go to resy club analytics.com or just type in Resi Club into Google and you'll find it there. You just drop in your email and you'll get the weekly newsletter. Each week I'm, you know, writing about five articles for free. Some of them look at new construction, new home price data, just different things going out on throughout the residential real estate sector or maybe some of the markets or counties with the highest rent yields. And then I also have a premium product called Resi Club Pro. It's three additional articles a week. Very heavy research and data, metropolitan stuff, county zip code level, and then also my inventory tracker and price tracker as well. Twitter, they can find me at News Lambert.

Good stuff. Lance Lambert, thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks Jason.

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