2246: Mythbusters: Why Housing Prices Won't Revert to Pre-Boom Levels | Inside the Ukrainian War Scam

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We got our last couple in the quad rented and we got the last one of a duplex rented and so we, we have full occupancy and it sure feels good to get the full check every single month. It's just a great feeling. And so hopefully in December we're going to take over two more and actually before then take over some from Alabama, actually all and then Memphis as well.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your Financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Greetings, empowered investors, and welcome to episode 2246. I am currently in Abu Dhabi. I attended the bitcoin conference here yesterday, hung out with some friends of mine and learned a lot. And one of the things that I have mentioned many, many times that I really want you to remember, internalize, consider, whatever, right? It's really important is this fallacy that people have that they think things have to revert to a trend line that is just simply not true. I mean, maybe they do eventually, but it could take so long and you could miss so many opportunities waiting. For example, yesterday, a lot of talk about cryptocurrencies, right? And again, I just want to say I think cryptocurrencies are pretty darn speculative. Be careful. This is, you know, this is something you do on the side. It's not your main strategy, okay? But depending on how wealthy you are and what you have to work with, it could be, you know, definitely part of your strategy. So we'll leave it at that. But people who keep trying to time the market and they keep waiting, waiting, waiting, well, things are going to come down. You know, bitcoin's going to be 20,000 again. You know, it's going to be $400 again, right? You know, why is it going to do that? Like what evidence? What actual Data do these people have that say that, you know, a house is going to cost $40,000 again, or rent is going to be, you know, $400 a month again. Right. There's just no evidence to support that. And the great thing about housing is it's really hard to create inventory. There are very big hurdles to creating new housing. We all know how difficult it is to get entitlements to build anything. To source materials, labor, there's a massive labor short. That is the great thing about it, is that you will continue to have scarcity. Remember, things have value based on two components. I've said this forever. The two primary value drivers of any commodity. And that commodity could be money, by the way. It could be currency. The two primary value drivers, what are they? You've heard me say it before. They are scarcity and utility. If you have scarcity, if you have utility, you have value. Meaning, do people want it, do people need it, can people use it? Yes, that creates value. That definitely creates value. If the currency is plentiful, if they're printing it like crazy, you know, if they're printing money like it's going out of style, then it is going out of style. And we always have to remember that any investment we have, it's just a matter of winning the race. You don't have to knock it out of the park. You don't have to hit a home run. You just have to beat most of the population, right? If you're winning, if you're doing better, if your investments are outperforming 51% of the population, then guess what? You are on the road to wealth. Why? Because if everybody's getting wealthy at the same rate, right? Or everybody's getting the same return on investment, then the prices in the marketplace of all the goods and services you buy will simply go up to meet the new wealth that's created. But if you can do it faster than everybody else, that is really, really fantastic. By the way, for those of you watching on video, I don't want to forget to mention this gorgeous view I have here in Abu Dhabi at the Fairmont Hotel. I mean, look behind me. You can see this incredible mosque. I heard it's the third largest mosque in the world. And I don't know if you can see it out in the distance there behind me, but I am right on this waterfront. It's just absolutely gorgeous at this hotel. You know, I've got a nice suite here. I am good at getting hotel deals, good at getting bargains, but also, you know, look like I said, when I was in Peru many years ago, and you heard me talking on the show, just take care of this money thing. Check it off the list. It's just a thing that everybody in life, they have to just do it, right? And you might as well just get this one out of the way, right? So no matter where you are in your journey, get the money thing out of your way, and then you can afford to travel in luxury and, and do all the, the best things. You know, it just brings the world within range, right? You just do a lot of stuff. I mean, for example, today I'm flying to Doha. Then I'm flying after that, I'm flying to Bali to meet some friends of mine that there, of course, I'm looking at real estate deals in all of these places. I met with a broker in Dubai the other day. I think I told you that on the last episode. You know, really, really cool experiences you can have when you have the resources to create those experiences for yourself. So just check this money thing off the list. Anyway, what were we talking about? That was a tangent alert. Tangent alert. I know I haven't called those out lately, but call me out on my tangents. If you're watching on video, just comment below. But I gotta tell you, last night they also had fireworks, right? I looked out the window, there were fireworks. It was just beautiful over the, over the waterway here. And just an incredible. Okay, so you've got to create wealth faster than most of the population. Then you're getting rich by comparison, right? Compared to what? Right? You are ahead of the market. And so whether you're looking at stocks and, you know, most people say the stock market is overvalued. Look at these price to earnings ratios, the PE ratios, they're way out of whack. They're higher than they should be, right? And they make that case. And that is a fair statement. But there are other factors, right? There's all this new wealth being created in the world as we've got the rising 3 billion, we've got the rising middle class, and we've got all this wealth being created all around the world. And there is a limited supply of assets for those people to invest in. And you know, here in the uae, I mean, it is insane. The kind of money, like if you live in a rich area in the US like where I used to live in Newport beach or Palm Beach, Florida, Newport Beach, California or Palm Beach, Florida, you know, or even Scottsdale, Arizona, these rich areas, you see expensive cars, you see expensive homes, you see people Living it up. And you come to the Middle east in some places and you come to Asia and you think, wow, the US Ain't got nothing on this. There's just so much wealth. But the US does have mass wealth, right? It has a very large segment of very, very wealthy people. I mean, the most billionaires, etc. Etc. I don't have to go through that with you. So anyway, this is all stuff to think about as we're in the investment game. But I want to show you a couple of things here because a lot of people say that, hey, you know, the rents are so high in the U.S. the housing prices are so high in the U.S. it's got to. Rents are going to soften, housing prices are going to soften, right? They say that. And you know, there are little things here and there going on, of course, right? That's always the case. All real estate is local and there are little fluctuations in the market and in different price segments and so on and so forth. You know, you can't paint this stuff with a broad brush. But the overall macro trend is not just true in the US of higher prices and higher rents. Look at where else it's true. Spain. Okay, so this article is about Spain. It says protesters in Spain object to skyrocketing rents. Average cost of rent in Spain has doubled in just 10 years. So there was this giant protest in Barcelona, or Barcelona, if you want to say it right, a week ago Saturday, protesting skyrocketing cost of renting an apartment in the popular tourist destination. Protesters cut off traffic on main avenues in the city center hold, holding up homemade signs in Spanish reading, quote, fewer apartments for investing and more homes for living. See, investors want to buy up the inventory and they want to control the inventory, right? And they also had signs that said, quote, people without homes uphold their rights, unquote. Exactly what does that mean? Well, I guess uphold the rights of the people that don't have a home. Okay? The lack of affordable housing has become one of the leading concerns in the southern European Union country, the AP reports, mirroring the housing crunch in many parts of the world, including the U.S. okay, so what else happened here in Barcelona? Look at this, right? The article goes on to say, now social concerns led by housing have displaced political crusades. This is because the average rent in Spain has doubled in the past 10 years. The price per square meter has risen from $7.50 per month US in 2014 to 1350 per cent this year, right? According to the real estate website Idealista. Okay? The growth is even More acute in cities like Barcelona and Madrid. Incomes have failed to keep up, especially for younger people in a country with chronically high unemployment. And look at what this says. A report by the bank of Spain indicates that nearly 40% of Spaniards who rent dedicate an average of 40% of their income to paying rent and utilities, compared to the EU average, the European Union average of 27%. So this is a big deal. And guess what? It's gonna get worse around the world before it gets better. And that is true in the U.S. as well. That is definitely true in the U.S. i mean, look, it does not the silly idea that people think just because it was lower before, just because it was more affordable in the past, it has to come down. That simply ain't true. It might be true if we had more supply, right? Or if we had less demand, then it could be true for sure. But because of that large supply demand imbalance, it's just not going to be true for quite a long time. Okay, here is a property example that we have on your favorite website, Jason Hartman.com. just click on the properties page there to see all of our great property. Well, sorry, I take that back. You won't see all of our great properties there because some of them aren't on the website. And that's why you need to talk with an investment counselor. So reach out to our team through Jason hartman.com or you can call us as well. 714-820-4200 and our investment counselors will be happy to help you. Just press extension 2 and you'll be connected with an investment counselor. Okay. Or you can leave a message. So this one is four bedrooms, two baths, brand new home, two car garage, almost 1800 square feet for 259,900. It'll take about $77,000 to buy it. You're only paying $147 per square foot for brand new construction. Okay. Attractive, business friendly Alabama, where my mother lives. Business friendly place. Super low property taxes there. By the way. A lot of people like that feature, especially recently with property taxes going up. And by the way, remember, with your property taxes, you can dispute those bills, okay? You always have the right to appeal the assessment. But on balance, just remember the reason the property taxes go up is because your property has appreciated so much. So don't be completely upset about this, right? Because it is overall good news. But yes, you can appeal those property taxes. We've done shows on that in the past over the years. That's something that you should check out Doing an appeal. You can hire companies to help you with this. It's pretty cheap for them to do it. Or you can do it yourself. Okay, so Projected rent here is 1650 per month. We're basing this on 25% down plus closing cost, about 77,000 doll thousand to buy this property. And your expenses are all outlined here. We've got your modest appreciation projection, really realistic vacancy projection vacancy one month per year. There's no management fee right away on this because you've got some free property management baked in. You will eventually have management fees. But we really recommend of course that you self manage your properties. And we can help you do that. We can provide you the tools to do that, especially if you are a member of our empowered investor pro group. That is cheaper than the cost of a gym membership. So join that and join me on ZOOM every month in a small group setting where I will help you, coach you, solve your problems and we'll get you on track with self management, give you all the tools to do that. Maintenance percentage again, brand new home, so you're probably not going to have any maintenance for your first couple years. But we still throw 2% into the performa, just to be conservative. Positive cash flow projected at 123 per month or almost 1500 per year. Your overall return on investment here projected at 22%. And annually, as I always say, even if it only goes half as well as expected, you're going to still be getting a great return on investment from the most historically proven asset class in the entire world. And the most tax favored asset class in America. Now remember that 22% projected return does not include tax benefits like expense deductions you can take when you're a real estate investor. Depreciation, the most beautiful non cash write off ever. 1031 exchange where you can reinvest profits before taxes. You can't do that in the stock market, you can't do that with cryptocurrencies, you can't do that with a business. You can't do it with anything else. Except beautiful income property, the most historically proven asset class in the entire world. All right, if you need help with your investment properties, you need help with a portfolio makeover to determine the highest and best use of any assets you have. How to maximize and optimize for tax strategy. Management efficiency, the passive income efficiency. Highest rents, highest cash flows, highest capital appreciation potential. Our investment counselors are here to help you. It's totally free, just reach out. Get a free consultation. You can fill out any web form on Jason hartman.com or call 714-820-4200 and press 2 and you'll get to an investment counselor and they'll be happy to assist you in building a great portfolio for yourself.

Today I have a fascinating interview for you where you are going to get the inside story from a Ukrainian citizen about the war effort and the geopolitical situation in Ukraine, Russia, et cetera, Eastern Europe. I have visited both Ukraine and Russia several times and was very saddened when the invasion occurred. And I was very much on Ukraine's side initially and I have not changed my opinion of that. However, I have changed my opinion of the motivation behind the war and so forth. And sadly it just seems to have become a big money laundering scheme, unfortunately and a big support of the military industrial complex, which is awful. And as I always say, as long as war is profitable, there will never be peace. But today, let's get the inside scoop on this from a Ukrainian friend of mine who does not want to be identified. We will call him Nick. And Nick, welcome. It's good to see you.

Thank you for having me, Jason.

It's my pleasure. And thank you so much for informing people about what is really going on and what people are really saying behind the scenes, what the real thoughts are on this war. So I'll just let you take it wherever you want initially and have some questions. But just give us kind of the overview and your perspective, if you would.

What helped us at the very beginning, and I mean at the end of 2021, before the big invasion began and at the beginning of 2022, most of our friends and family members were watching exclusively Ukrainian media and we can say Ukrainian propaganda. At that time we were far away from our home country with my wife and we had for some reason we were watching the American news, we were watching Indian news, we were watching Arabic channels, we were watching Russian channels, Ukrainian channels. And the picture just before it all started was so much different from different point of view news. And we had and I and I think we had much better way to put the puzzle together and answering the question what's going on in Ukraine is still very difficult because what western media, mass media says and what for instance their global south media would say, it's often just the opposite. And I learned that when we only rely on one way of thinking, we we missed the whole picture picture by probably 99%. And I used to be subscribed to the Economist magazine. I used to respect this, the magazine. But then I learned like again in 2022, I've seen how much misinformation or just not delivering the full picture was, was, was published on the, on the, on the pages of the magazine.

So for me, and I agree, by the way, the Economist used to be such a reputable source, but like so many other outlets, they've, they've been bought out. You know, they've just become. And so you're absolutely right.

What's going on in Ukraine? To answer this question, I would say if somebody really wanted to learn it deep, I would, I would suggest watch or read Indian sources, Chinese sources, Russian, Ukrainian, of course Western, and maybe, I don't know, some, some, some others. From my, my understanding is we are not in Ukraine since we, we left Ukraine just three months before the invasion. And I was lucky enough just to have this feeling that something is going, is going to happen. I didn't know what it will be. When it happened, I realized why. We were just moved. We were taken out of the country. We, we couldn't stay there. In November 2021, three and a half months before the invasion, we couldn't be in there. We had to leave. I mean left.

What do you mean?

So, I mean, I mean this feeling, there's like emptiness, there's like, you know when, when it's a tsunami is going to approach.

Oh yeah, you could feel it happening.

Before the water, water goes, goes into the ocean. I had this kind of feeling like it's, it's too quiet. It's like something is, is going. I, and I couldn't really understand what it is, what it could be. So we were, we were lucky enough to leave the country. But what I understand now, every day the situation is worsening and worsening and worsening and no money from the west, no weapon, armor from the west will improve that situation. There's no chance. It can only make the situation, the country, the people life worse. And people are still living, still live in Ukraine illegally because men's from 18 to 60, 18 to 60 are not allowed to leave the country. People paid at the beginning, they were paying 3,000 at the very few days they were just $1,000 to their border guard and they were left out a couple weeks later. It's the, the, the, the price was 3,000, 3 to 5,000 then it's 10,000 now people, some people would pay a couple of 20 or 20 and more thousand US dollars. And this is a huge money for Ukraine. For American, it's relatively okay. Maybe.

What do you mean they would pay? Pay who? For what?

Oh, the paper pay for Illegal dog either for illegal dogs, like for their medical.

To be able to leave the country.

Yeah, Medical, medical like their tests that.

They are ineligible to fight.

Yeah. Or they would just pay someone at the border to guide them through the forest or through the river or the people from the military who are guarding their borders or who are involved in their medical exams. They became millionaires in a matter of just weeks, I think weeks. Now they are all multi millionaires.

And because they, because they were letting people go.

Yeah. Because they were selling this lucky tickets.

Right.

To get out of the thousands. Thousands of people. Yeah.

To get out of the country, you're saying? Right. Okay. So these, these border guards made a lot of money doing that. They were, you know, the first profiteers after the military industrial complex. But you know, I just want to ask you straight out, and I know we'll kind of jump around here on topics is this war unwinnable?

My understanding is that the war is not winnable. And I remember before actually it all started, I already knew that the likelihood is very high that Russia will invade. So I started to study some materials and just before the big invasion I learned that American Institute for the War, something like this is the name they said it was predicted that the likelihood of Ukraine winning the war with Russia is only 1%. What we have now in Ukraine territory is lost. People are killed and Russia continue to continue the invasion slowly but surely.

You know, look, nobody profiting wants this war to end. They want to keep it going. And it's, it's just so sad that they're destroying so much property and so many lives. But how could it end? Should Ukraine just give up part of, of its land to Russia? Or you know what, what happens? What is an ending strategy? What's an end game here?

That's interesting to, to see how people think that the war began on February 24, 2022. The war began in my opinion at least 10 years ago, in 2014, when.

We had the Crimea situation with the.

Crimea and eastern parts of Ukraine. And to end the world, we have to understand, to ask what Russians want and for what I have learned when I studied and I've studied this war for months, maybe for a couple of years already. They want to be respected, they want to be an equal part on the global arena. And the west doesn't want Russia to be that big player. They want Russia to be big. They want Russia probably to dispel in multiple states. But Russia would be satisfied when rest would recognize it and respect. This is my understanding and opinion. And if Russia would be really, truly respected and welcomed into the club. Russia, in this case, Russia would probably give up, give back, even Crimea. If they were truly players in a club, they wouldn't care about Crimea as long as they are not respected. Put it down. They would resist with every means that are available.

Right? Yeah. And that's just unlikely to happen with the current environment. Well, how do you think Trump would treat this differently versus Biden Harris administration?

I watched like probably dozen of Trump's rally speeches, and I'm always wondering, how is. What is his strategy for success?

He always says he'll. He'll end the war, but there's not much.

Yeah, he always says he has a recipe, but he won't tell it now because then it will be an element of surprise. I have no idea how, because. But people at that level, they have, they, they know even much more than we do, and I think he has something under the belt. Yeah, I don't know and I have no idea. I, I have no idea. But I don't believe that Trump will be supporting the idea of Ukraine brought back to their borders of 1991.

Yeah, right, right.

It was 2014.

Talk to us about the corruption that's going on. Both you and your wife believe there's an incredible amount of corruption happening, and I have no doubt that there is. But can you elaborate on that for us?

What is corruption for you?

People taking money that is supposed to be going for one thing to another thing. Certainly people getting rich off the war. Maybe Zelensky is one of them. You know, there just seems to be too much interest in keeping the war going because it's profitable.

Ukraine is considered to be one of the most corrupted countries in the world. Probably at the moment, the most corrupted country. I don't have facts. Me, personally, I can. I only have ideas that I have read or watched in some oppositional telegram channels. Corruption is just everywhere. As I said, the border. I know, Okay. I tell you the story. What corruption is from my friend's experience. They paid $5,000 for my friend with his wife and two daughters to leave the country with fake medical tests.

No, at the border.

They were caught because that paper was not well written. So he was caught. He was put under the investigation. He had the criminal judge. He was heading for five or seven years in prison just because he had that paper, which was faked. When he was caught at the border, another guy who was supposed to investigate him said, we can go through the court. You'll be imprisoned for five or seven years. Oh, you just paid me $7,000 and I arrange it and you leave the country.

No.

And one month later he paying this another guy. So altogether $12,000 he left the country. The corruption is just in these terms. It's just everywhere. People are earning on the war. There are people very happy that the voice is going on in Ukraine because they're becoming multi millionaires in. In matter of no time, right?

All these war profiteers and I mean they're rounding up up men on the streets without any proper training and putting them in the battlefield. Tell us what's going on there.

You've probably seen already this there. There are thousands, probably by now. There's thousands of thousands of videos showing people being kidnapped from the streets. Like a couple of days ago, the big concert was going on in the center of Kyiv. I don't know how many people there were probably 20,000, maybe 30,000, maybe even more. I don't just know the. The capacity of that hole. And at the exit after the concert, I think it was military agents packing people in the buses.

Wow. And that's just men. That's all right.

It's only men. It's only men. What helps actually when women are involved and they protect the man, they start to cry loudly. They start to videotaping it. And in this case sometimes this agents are leaving people just on the street.

Unbelievable.

And it happens just everywhere. Kiev, the capital of Ukraine, used to be these terms, safe up until probably half a. A year ago. Now it's already. It's going on also in Kiev. But people in rural areas, they have experienced this since. For the last two years. And there are. And I have learned that there are villages in Ukraine, many actually villages where there are no men population except for the young and for the very old, because they were all taken and most of them already dead.

Unbelievable. It's awful. How does it end? When does it end? Does it just keep going forever? But what are other Ukrainians and Russians thinking that you.

You to their thinking? The way I'm think is not popular. It is common. But people are afraid to express the wish that the war will stop today. Because when it stops today, Ukraine has to lose the territories. Technically Ukraine lose. So when someone, when I starts to say we have to stop the war, this was my message from the very beginning. From 2022, from the February 24th. I was saying we have to stop here. There's no chance to. I was hate to say at least hated, but I was, I was, I was receiving threats in my private messenger. People were saying that they Will find me whenever, whenever I'm in the world. I don't know the percentage again, I don't know how true these numbers are, but the rating of Zelensky is at the lowest possible level now, around 15%. 1 5, 15, 17. The last number I heard was 17, and it was eight months ago. Most Ukrainians are fed up, especially the Ukrainians that are still in Ukraine. Ukrainians that left Ukraine either to Russia or either to the West. Many of them have already forgot about their home country. They are just involved in the daily routine. They knew a new country, the children going to the school or to the university. They have to work some money. Also because of this kidnapping on the streets, people are very much against presidents lends or should we. Could we not call him anymore because he's illegal too. Ran out in my.

In May and he just stayed in. Right?

He stood there, right?

Yeah. So at first though, people were probably in favor of Zelensky. I'm. I'm guessing very much. Yeah. Right.

More than 90.

Yeah, that's definitely changed. People know Zelensky is profiting personally from the war, at least most people think so. In terms of the numbers, the UN estimates there, you know, as of a few months ago, there were about 5.4 million Ukrainian refugees. Some say 10, 20 million. You know, that's like half the country's population. If it's that high. What do those numbers look like and where are they going? I mean, are they just dispersing all over Europe or.

In Germany at the moment, there are 1.2 or 1.3 millions Ukrainians in, in Poland, it used to be 1.2. Now it dropped to about 1 million or probably 900,000. Just because Poland says he will be sending Ukrainian men back to Ukraine. Ukraine. And so 300,000 people just run from, from Poland to Germany. There are 250,000 people in Ukrainians in the UK so altogether the estimates is between 4.4 and a half, 5, maybe 6 millions Ukrainians in Europe. I heard the number that about 4 millions of Ukrainians flew to Russia. So it already makes around 10 million. There are over 100,000 Ukrainians in Canada now and in the USA. So probably another 200,000. Maybe, maybe 300,000. And a very small part goes to like Turkey and Emirates or some Asian countries. Very small and little, very little to Australia or Japan. Ukrainians are now just everywhere. Like bigger nations like Chinese. You can meet Chinese people everywhere. Ukraine used to be very small, like 35 million population. Now Ukrainians are just like everywhere Right.

That's. I mean the Polish people have definitely dispersed around the world for decades now. What else would you like people to know about this, Nick?

My request would be it's always better and healthier to have the more complete picture. To have the more complete picture we have to see their point of view not only from the one side like from the Western media because all the most of the western media are controlled by that media magnet groups and a very small percentage of media still have different opinion. We love to see sometimes, not all, not not every day. We own.

A big, big Indian channel as I said Arabic, Al Jazeera. But Al Jazeera is very much pro Ukrainian war. But on the issue of Israel Palestinian conflict they have a very different opinion. To have the clear picture we must make an effort and find the truth through different sources and not from just biased one side. The old media more or less are biased, but when we take sources from different directions then we can put the picture together.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

I was very much against Russia when it was 2014-2015-2016-2017, up until 2021. But when I learned where Ukraine is going and what is what is ahead of us, I realized we better we are going in a totally different wrong direction. And I was totally disagreeing what the Ukrainian government and president were taking us further.

Yeah.

And in this some say you are pro Russia. Not. I'm not pro Russian. I never, I haven't been to Russia for more than 10 years. I'm pro Ukrainian because I don't want people to die. I don't want their territory to be lost and I don't the infrastructure to be destroyed. I'm probably people like me are much more pro Ukrainian than people who are happy to kill their own population. Happy to destroy their all on power plants and other people, you know.

Yeah.

Yes.

Wow. It's really an awful, truly awful situation. But we really appreciate you coming on and sharing your thoughts about it at risk to you you. That was just very nice of you to do that. Anything else you want people to know before you go?

The good thing is that more and more Ukrainians at least are opening their eyes. And what I was speaking about two and a half years ago for many Ukrainians are now is obvious truth. But two and a half years ago it was like you are too proaction, you are for Putin, etc. No, as I said, I'm for Ukraine. And when you, I mean the listener they would hear Ukrainians saying some things like this. Understand they are very much pro Ukrainians. Because they don't want the war to continue, people killed, infrastructure destroyed. They want the countries to be saved and prosper. And I don't know if it's possible. Now.

The way to be pro Ukraine is to end the war.

Yes, the country has to be saved, the nation has to be saved. The future of the country has to be saved. And it's not saved when it is fighting against the second, at least the second biggest, biggest war power on the earth, even with the support of other nations.

Well, Nick, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate the insights and really wish for the best possible outcome.

Thank you everyone, Jason, for having me.

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