2277: Decoding the Coming Recession: Kerry Lutz on Market Shifts, Economic Storm Clouds and the 2025 Outlook on Real Estate

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Our great podcasts, visit hartmanmedia.com hey, brother, I just finished listening to your July 5 episode, man. I just absolutely love your content, man. It gives me value every time I listen to it. It gives me a different perspective on how I view some of the stuff that I do. It's just always good, man. And I just, I want to keep telling you the same thing over and over and over. It does affect people, it does change people's lives and really do appreciate all of the effort that you're putting into that, because I know that you've really got better things to do than this, but yet you still sacrifice that time and do it. So hats off to you, bro. Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer, and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman, with the complete solution for real estate investors. Greetings, empowered investors from Bogota, Colombia. I am on my way to Lima, Peru today and I'm in this funky airport lounge that looks rather modern and Jetson esque. Do any of you remember the show the Jetsons? Well, here we are. This is kind of a very Jetsons esque airport lounge. So, you know, ever since Trump got elected, I've been talking about how America is open for business. We've got a business person running the country and the whole vibe has completely changed. Well, now something really, really awesome and amazing is going on. Number one, there is this movement to eliminate property taxes, and Florida and Tennessee are leading the charge. Can you imagine what happens here if property taxes evaporate? If they go away? Do you know what a massive migration trend that will cause and what an increase in values that will cause? And you know, this kind of stuff is contagious. Other states follow suit. You know, when one state does it, they've got to be competitive. It's a marketplace for money, right? Money goes where it's treated best. People go where they're treated best. And that's what's going to happen. So this trend, if it works in these two states, it is going to expand rapidly and it is going to be great news for all of you. It's going to be great news for real estate investors, for new home buyers, for everybody. It'll be wonderful. And how will they pay for this? Well, I encourage you to look into it because they have a plan. But there is something even bigger and more amazing on the horizon. So Donald Trump has said, right when he took office, he was talking about how the IRS should be eliminated and it should be replaced with the External Revenue Service. You know, we've got this Internal Revenue Service, but why not have an External Revenue service? I've never heard him say it, but I've called it the ers, right, the External Revenue Service. And what he's talking about is tariffs mainly. But he just announced another amazing, huge revenue stream that would be an absolute game changer for the country. Let me just preface this. We've talked before about Golden Visa programs and migration by investment programs, and we did a masterclass on that a few months ago. But why doesn't the US Have a program like this? Well, Trump wants to create one and it's called the Gold Card program, where basically the US would sell these gold cards to wealthy foreigners for $5 million. Think about it. If you just sell a small number of these, you could easily eliminate the deficit. And if you sell a bigger number of these, you could eliminate the national debt entirely. It is absolutely amazing. This is an incredible idea. It is genius. And think of the knock on effects. I mean, think of what Trump is really saying here. He's saying, let's charge people a big administration admission fee to come to the country that most people want to come to. But not only that, they're going to pay admission to come and contribute to our economy. Imagine the migration of capital that would follow these Gold Card holders. I almost said Golden Visa gold Card holders. The migration of capital that would follow them would be staggering. The new businesses that would be funded, the new businesses that would be started, the people that would be hired, the real estate that would be purchased. This is an absolutely incredible idea. And maybe it comes along with this ERS idea of eliminating income tax. So, folks, we are at a pivotal moment in history. It is an amazing time to be alive. And you combine this with the technology that we're all experiencing and I don't think we can even imagine the kind of prosperity that could be created from these programs and these things. Think about it. You know, you might be thinking, well, Jason, you know, $5 million is a drop in the bucket, but there's 8 billion people on Earth. Think of how many wealthy Chinese would love to have an American gold card. Think of how many wealthy Russians and Ukrainians that would love to have an American gold card. Think of how many wealthy Asians that would love to have an American gold card. For them, $5 million is like nothing. I mean, these other citizenship by investment programs. Look at the European program, the one that gets you that really good EU citizenship. And it gets it to you pretty quickly, right? It's Malta. It's $1 million. Portugal, you're going to spend what now? I think that's close to $500,000 for the most famous golden Visa program that Portugal has, has become famous for. This would be incredible. People will buy it like crazy. And the capital, both monetary capital and intellectual capital that would come into the US Would be staggering. The way it would drive up real estate prices, the way it would increase demand for real estate, not that we need increased demand because we have a housing shortage, as you well know, is absolutely phenomenal. Now, before we get to our guest today, which is going to be a returning guest, Kerry Lutz, he'll be back on with us in a few minutes. But I want to say two more things. Number one, a friend of mine posted on Facebook yesterday a chart. And you know, I'll get this chart for you when I can another, another time. But it's a chart showing that inventory levels in Florida have been rising. And that's true. I mean, we've talked about it a lot. No big deal, right? And so all the doomers are talking about all this panic. Well, how much have they been rising? Because what is life's most important question? Compared to what? That's the most important question. Well, they've been rising and now they are back to 2015 levels. That's what Florida looks like now. And there's all this panic. But no one bothered to consider how misleading that chart is. Why is it misleading? Because inventory needs to be compared to something. It needs to be compared to the overall population or household numbers. In 2015, the population of Florida was dramatically lower than it is today. So a chart like this is totally misleading because it should not talk about the aggregate inventory levels, which are the same as they were 10 years ago. It should talk about the per capita inventory levels or the per household inventory levels. If you do it that way, it's much lower than it was in 2015. So again, folks, if you don't just understand this basic stuff you're going to fall prey to to the doomers that are going to force you to miss out on opportunities. If you watch those channels, I mean, you know, the media, YouTube, it's full of all these doomers that make these huge leaps in logic and they don't really consider the proper way to evaluate statistics. So hope that's helpful to you. All right, Empowered Investor Live is coming up. You get a free ticket to Rebel Capitalist Live, which is a month later if you buy an Empowered Investor Live ticket. And one more thing I wanted to say, you know, I have not mentioned this before, but we have negotiated an incredible hotel deal. Our hotel room block rate is only 199 per night at this gorgeous newly remodeled property that we've held many events at over the years. And it is just a fantastic property, freshly remodeled. It's beautiful. And you get your room for only 199 per night. So that's a great deal. So coming to this event will really not cost you very much money. And certainly compared to the knowledge you'll get, the new contacts you'll make, the new friends you'll make, the networking opportunities, the learning opportunities and the fun opportunities, you know, it's going to be fantastic. You know, maybe you want to combine it, make it a family vacation to Southern California if you're not from the area, of course, Disneyland is right there. And that's right in my old stomping grounds where I grew up and had my the first part of my career, my big traditional real estate career was in Orange County, California. So join us for that Empowered InvestorLive.com EmpoweredInvestorLive.com join keynote speakers Sharon Lecter, Tom Wheelwright. And first time speaker for us is Michael Maloney, who is an expert on monetary policy and monetary history. Fascinating guy. It's going to be a great event. So empoweredinvestorlive.com go there right now, get your tickets and we will look forward to seeing you. And let's go to our guest, Kerry Lutz. And before we go, let's hear an interesting clip of the day. This just in. After Governor Ron DeSantis stated his intention to abolish property taxes in Florida this afternoon.

These property taxes, it's like you, you buy a home, is it your property or not? Just for being on your property, you got to write a check to the government every year. So you're basically paying rent to the government to live on your own property.

Tennessee has followed suit with a resolution banning a statewide property tax heading to the Senate Judiciary Committee at 3pm tomorrow. Senate Joint Resolution 1, sponsored by Senator Farrell Hale, seeks to amend Tennessee's constitution to prohibit any form of state property taxation if it secures two thirds support in both chambers. Ten Tennesseans will vote on it next year. Meanwhile, Florida's plan, backed by Governor DeSantis, would make it the first state in the nation to eliminate property taxes if approved. This year, Senator Jonathan Martin filed SB852, calling for a study on replacing property tax revenue with budget cuts and potential sales tax increases. Since Florida has no income tax, the study will assess how eliminating property taxes could affect schools, parks and emergency services. Both Tennessee and Florida's efforts mark a significant shift in reshaping America. It is my pleasure to welcome a returning guest back to the show. You've heard him on many times, and that is none other than Kerry Lutz, the founder of the Financial Survival Network. And he is here to discuss and decode what is going on in today's markets, in the economy, and maybe a little bit about the political environment as well. Kerry, welcome back.

How are you doing? Great. It's great to be back on the show with you, Jason.

It's good to have you. So let's dive in. First to your thoughts on the economy. We're in a new year. We've got a new presidential administration, a lot of stuff going on, rapid changes. What can we expect this year?

I had lunch with Martin Armstrong a couple of weeks ago and he is adamant that the country is going into a recession because the world's in a recession and we've just been so distracted in this country that nobody knows it. If we are really going into a recession and I'm not convinced of it, then got to believe that interest rates will go down, but the debt's going up and it's going to be a real mess. This would be the worst possible time to go into a recession.

So just out of curiosity, Martin Armstrong's been on the show a few times before. I know you know him well. He's got some really interesting thoughts on, on things and also a computer program that predicts the economy and predicts various markets. So why does he think we're going into a recession? I mean, we've got, we do have high interest rates. Well, they're not high historically, but they're high recent history wise. You know, the labor market is very strong. What makes us go into a recession? You know, holiday spending for retailers was fantastic. I mean, you know, set a record. Where's the recession coming From I think.

He sees the so called Trump bump as just being short lived.

Okay.

And you know, I didn't really get into him with it, but that's what the computer says we're going to do recession. And that's what he's repeating. But like I say, I would make the argument we've been in a recession for the past two years because they remember the former administration redefined the definition of recession and said as long as the job numbers are good, then you can't be in a recession. But you and I both know that that's like just not so.

You just reminded me of Reagan's famous quote. And by the way, I think the current president might actually set the record for being a better president than Reagan. And I liked Reagan pretty well. He made some mistakes, but we'll get into the political thing in a moment here. But he said, you know, a recession is when your neighbor loses his job. A depression is when you lose your job. That's a funny quote. And nobody's losing their job. I mean the employment numbers are holding very well. So you know, it's kind of hard to say that, but I know it's uneven. Right. And homeowners have record amounts of equity. They're very comfortable. If they got their loans over two years ago, they're extremely comfortable. So, you know, it's not like you can predict a real estate crash very well, you know, and just like dive into that. More like why, why have we been in a recession the past two years in your eyes?

Well, because we've had negative GDP growth and inflation is understated. So whatever growth the numbers appear to be reflecting is overstated because, you know, you have this thing called the GDP deflator inflation deflator index. And if the inflation is measured at 3%, then you take that and you deduct that from GDP, 3% of it, and you compare them year over year. And if you're up 1%, then the economy's growing and you're not in a recession. But if you say the inflation rate is 3%, but it's really 5 or 7, then you had major negative growth, you know, you had contraction and you're in a recession. And the definition is two consecutive quarters of negative growth or contraction and you're in a recession.

Yeah. So you know, and the committee needs to declare the recession, you know, which is so ridiculous. We just, you know, I've talked about that on prior shows, so we won't go into it today. But, but okay, so in a recession, if we've been in one. If, if we're going into one, can we still see asset prices increase in the recessionary time?

Of course, because the only way they'll get us out of a recession is printing more money and inflating the bubble more. Look, if they take. If Doge is a success, and we're not talking politics yet, but just hypothetically, it's a success and they save us $500 billion that the government doesn't have to spend or borrow, quote, unquote, borrow or print out of thin air. That is very deflationary. And what we've seen in the past is we have these major recessions now when credit markets melt down for one reason or another, like 2008, 9, that was led by credit contraction. And if you go back over the last three or four recessions, they have all been caused by credit contraction or what you would say, a credit bust.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting that you mentioned that, because I was recently, as you know, in Bangkok, Thailand, and I met with Richard Duncan in person and I did a very long in person interview with him that we just published a week ago. And his latest book is all about creditism, as he calls it. And I completely agree with you. During the Great Recession, you know, everybody was focused on money supply, but they weren't focused on credit supply. And those two together really make the real money supply, in my opinion. And I know you agree with that, so it's a very good point that you make. So do you think we'll see a significant credit contraction? You know, and by the way, we've got to sort of dice that up too, because one idea of credit contraction would be just higher rates. Right. But the other idea of credit contraction would be availability of, of money at all, regardless of the rate. So in the real estate world, the Mortgage Bankers association publishes an index which is the Mortgage Credit Availability Index, the mcai, which you may be familiar with. You know, talk to us about maybe those different aspects of credit supply.

Yeah, you know, we've been in this recession, all right, for two, three years now, since inflation kicked up. And at the same time, we got higher interest rates, which is like the worst thing you do. But inflation is kicking up, and that's the only tool in their arsenal left is that's all they have is printing money or print less of it, but they're still printing it. On the other hand, the President has indicated he's going to be pressuring Jerome Powell to lower interest rates. How much will they really be able to lower them they cut them 50 basis points before the election. You could question their motivation, but they did it. But they. That was the only cut that we saw for, like, the past year. So if we get some cuts, maybe they can offset some of the credit contraction that could otherwise take place.

That's an interesting point. And, you know, if you look at the mortgage world, that seems to be extremely sound. But if you look at auto financing, auto loans, for example, I'm no expert on it, but I'm reading that that looks like a problem area and, you know, other areas of credit as well, just like consumer credit, credit cards, et cetera. Any thoughts on those?

Yeah, well, you know, we've been watching a slow kind of meltdown of auto lending. We've got subprime auto lending. Delinquencies are up. Four autos, four credit cards. So consumer credit, not the best shape. We still got a lot of retailers going out of business. You don't see a lot of new ones opening. You know, I can see the argument for it. On the other hand, the military industrial complex is booming, but if we settle a couple of wars, that's not going to be a real good sector to be in either. Big source of profits there. The military industrial complex loves wars, right? They make more in one month of war than they make in ten years of peace.

Yeah, exactly. I've said the same thing. As long as war is profitable, there will never be peace. And the central banks have a lot to blame for that because the banksters in general, because they're financing the wars, you know, so it's. It's just terrible. It's awful.

We're financing it through lower purchasing power of the dollar.

Right?

That's what it's about. You know, interesting Martin Armstrong said, you know, 70% of our debt is interest, which means we're paying interest on interest. So something's got to give. Enthusiastic about cryptos, though, but not all of them, because most of them are what I call kleptocurrencies.

Yep, I like that.

You know, hey, man, I wish I had bought the Melania coins and the Donald coins and, you know, make America great again coins. But the fact that they just boom out of nowhere, it's pretty amazing. Like when they released the Trump coin, I guess you could be outraged that he made billions of dollars. On the other hand, it was before he got sworn in, and, and he had no idea that the things were going to go up that much in price. But his enthusiastic endorsement of bitcoin. Are you aware, Jason, that we already have a Strategic bitcoin reserve.

I know that the government owns a small amount of bitcoin, but they haven't formally called it a strategic reserve yet. And it's not in the amount that, you know, the bitcoin the crypto brothers want to see it in.

Not that small. They own 213,000 bitcoins. The last I looked, 15.2 or 15.7 billion in bitcoin. You know where they got it from seizing it, right? They got it, yeah, from Ross Albrecht, right?

Yeah, yeah. Which. Who's now out of jail, thankfully. Which, you know, I think he should have served some time in prison, which he did, but not 240 years. That was insane. And that's the guy behind Silk Road. We all probably saw the movie. It was a great movie, by the way, if you haven't seen it, it's very interesting. He definitely committed a crime, but it's not a 240 year crime. Okay.

He could have been bunk mates with Sam Bankman. Fried.

So, Kerry, what are your thoughts on the real estate market over the coming year or so?

Well, we've talked about inflation. It doesn't just go away because they wave a magic wand. Trump saying we're going to lower energy prices and that's going to lead to lower inflation. Look, Milton Friedman said it like 100 years ago, inflation is first and foremost always a monetary phenomena. Right. So it has nothing to do with the underlying prices of commodities. It's got to do with the value of the currency.

Right.

Now you can have situations like when Spain conquered the New World and they shipped back so much gold that gold actually lost its value because of the quantity of gold was so much higher. Okay, that can happen. You know, we're on a commodity based money supply, but ours is a credit based money supply. Every dollar that exists is borrowed into existence. So to think that inflation will just go away. Yeah, if we have a massive depression or a very, very deep recession, it will go down substantially. But everything they do printing more money is to avoid that scenario. So to think that inflation is just going to disappear because they wave a magic wand or energy prices go down, it's just not going to happen. Energy prices could be 10, 15% of the total inputs in the economy. So if you knock it down 20%, you save 2 to 3%. That's just not going to work.

Right, right. So, so just to clarify your point, which is a great point by the way, energy prices go down. I mean, the cost of energy is in everything. So we bring energy prices down. It does help Bring inflation down a little bit. But again, it's not a magic wand, it's not a panacea. It shaves a little bit off maybe, but again, not, not significant.

Yeah, exactly. So you don't address the cause. That's like you got a brain tumor and you go to the doctor and he gives you a couple to aspirin, tells you to call them in the morning. You know, it's not going to be effective. On the other hand, if the government can, there's got to be a restructuring that takes place. Armstrong, he's in favor of a debt to equity swap where basically you take all the government debt and then you could buy stocks with it and that's all you could do with it. And everybody gets these certificates that are good for buying shares.

Oh, that's interesting. You got to explain that more. What, what do you mean? You take all the government debt and you give it to the people so.

They can buy, give it to them and say go buy stocks with it basically is what he's saying. Debt to equity swap. Like what's happens in a bankruptcy where a company goes bankrupt, chapter 11, but it's going to continue in operation. The equity holders get wiped out, the creditors wind up getting owning the company, effectively.

Right, but, but giving people 34 trillion or $36 trillion worth of stock vouchers, I don't think, I mean, I don't.

Think you give it to them all at once, you know.

Right, but how does that, how does that pay the debt? I don't get, get that. If we owe, if we owe a trillion to China, how does giving US Citizens stock vouchers pay China's debt?

Yeah, well, you don't have to get rid of all of it necessarily. You want to give it to people to get them to waive their future entitlements.

Oh, you're, you're saying trade it for. All the owners of Treasuries would get stock vouchers instead of their Treasuries.

Exactly.

Okay, got it.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So that's his concept to buy stocks.

In American companies or at least on American exchanges.

Yeah, I don't think it's workable, but.

That'S a really interesting idea.

I don't think that's, he seems to think so. And like Milton Friedman said years ago, the way you end Social Security is you give people bonds, then they could sell those bonds or hold them to maturity or whatever. But you know, I don't know how you do that with people on Medicare and Medicaid.

So they'd have to trade those bonds with their doctor.

I guess they pay them in bonds. I mean, hey, if RFP is successful and he makes America healthy again, we won't have to worry about it.

Right. We'll have a lot less load on the medical system, which is a complete disaster. Okay, so let's talk about tariffs for a moment. Okay. And the new administration. So the government takes in a little over, I think, $4 trillion a year now in basically taxes. Right. It needs to take in a lot more than that to break even. It's underfunded, obviously, so we run these deficits. How much could we collect from tariffs? And I don't know if you've studied this at all, so. I might.

I have studied it. I actually studied it.

I don't think we can collect 4 trillion from tariffs. Right.

No, no, no. Because right now, at the present time, we pull in from tariffs approximately $80 billion, and that's roughly 2% of the total trade. So multiply. 80 billion times $54 trillion is roughly our imports coming in. So if we were to bring that tariff up to 10%, that's only going to be $400 billion.

Right.

If we bring it up to 20%, it's going to be $800 billion. So we're nowhere near.

Right. And we have to, we also have to account for the reduced amount of trade.

Yes. It's going to cut demand.

Yeah. Right, right. And that would also create inflation. But on the other side of it, I mean, it would create a lot of American jobs too, because there would be more of an even an equally yoked system. Right. Which I think needs to happen. I don't think the tariff idea is bad. I think there should be some, some tariffs. I don't know if they should be radical because I think it'd be too, too shocking to the system. But, you know, Pat Buchanan was on my show a long time ago. Okay.

Yeah.

And he said that countries, company, foreign companies, they need to pay to access the American consumer market. And I agree. We've got the biggest marketplace of consumers. Why aren't they paying some admission to access this market? They should.

2% is, is a joke. And, you know, like the Chinese lie. They all lie and they all game the system because they classify the product being exported as such and such, which is at a lower rate, and they understate its value and all of these things. So we never. And then there's free trade with a lot of countries too, where there's no tariffs or virtually no tariffs. So the concept of the tariff I don't have an issue with. It's just not going to supplant the income tax. So then we come down to a national sales tax. All right? And that national sales tax got to be somewhere 10 to 20%, which I would rather pay the sales tax than go through filing you.

I couldn't agree more. It'd be so simple to just pay a higher sales tax to fund the government, a national sales tax. But again, that would also reduce consumption, which by the way, as a byproduct of that. The tree huggers and the environmental left should love this because then people wouldn't be filling their house with junk. Right. That they don't really need. I'm guilty of it, too. Consumption would decline with higher sales tax. I would tax anything. You would suppress it.

But you wouldn't be paying an income tax.

Right. So you'd have more money to spend. That's true.

And a Social Security tax, you wouldn't be paying either.

Right. But you would make a decision. You would make a decision. I agree with you. You'd have more money to spend. Absolutely, you're right. Because you wouldn't pay income tax, which I hope that system goes away because it's a disaster. It's over complicated. It's just a complete worse. Right. We shouldn't be spending this much time defending ourselves against our own government. That is a complete waste. That we have a whole industry of CPAs that do that rather than doing profitable things to make companies more lawyers. Yeah, right. Yeah, and lawyers too. And on both sides at the IRS and the citizens. But you would start to make decisions on your spending based on, hey, even though I have more money, do I really want to buy this? Because I got to pay all this tax. Right. So it would curtail consumption a little bit.

I think that's okay. But a little bit is okay. Of certain things. Certain things, it was like, hey, that little doohickey on Amazon is just too much money. I'm not buying it.

Right.

But you're going to buy a car. You're going to buy a car, you know.

Right.

So that's really the only viable alternative to the income tax. And then if you could cut a trillion dollars of spending out of there, it seems like they could do that in their sleep, you know?

Right.

Even though it's discretionary and non discretionary, you could easily find a trillion dollars to cut out of there.

Yeah, well, Elon's going to do that, I think, and I'm excited.

But there's a bigger change coming that nobody in the country is prepared for. Jason, you know what that is? AI.

Yeah. Oh, of course, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So, so whatever we're talking about here in a year I don't think is going to matter because I really believe that Tesla is really close to the fully autonomous vehicle in many respects. That's the least of it. You got these, these robots coming that will be able to do human work and you know, all the AI that kind of gets rid of white collar work, a lot of it. Right. They always said, well, automation computers creates more jobs than it destroys. And that's been true up to now. But I don't see where the jobs come from once AI takes them away. Maybe I'm wrong. Do you see it?

I do see it to some extent, but I do think AI is different. I mean look at other technologies have always increased the size of the economy and increased employment ultimately, but they're not without short term pain as this changeover happens. So I don't know, you know, transportation and basically driving is one of the biggest employers in the world.

The biggest, the biggest, biggest job category in the United States is driver and.

The world for deliveries for Ubers and taxis and, and lift and things like that. So yeah, it's a huge, huge sector. If that is replaced by autonomous vehicles, that is going to change things then you're absolutely right. No question.

11 million jobs.

Yeah.

So it won't be all at once. But it's happening so fast because I just remember going with the Tesla full self driving Beta as they called it now they call it supervised full self driving 3 years ago when I first signed up for it. It was hazardous. It still had its uses, especially on the highway.

Yeah. And you have a Tesla and.

Yeah.

Got all that functionality.

Yeah. And but now every time it comes out the update, it's way better than the last one by an order of magnitude waiting for the next one. One thing they haven't figured out is snow and ice and salt on the roads. Right. I assume there's a solution for that. Probably hardware based solution or something that they can do.

I had two Teslas. I had a Model S and a Model X before, you know, that was a few years back. But I remember the one thing it could never figure out that almost killed me a couple of times was cones in the road. Right. It would never figure those out and it wouldn't figure out divergent.

I have a story about that. So you know the road that leads into my subdivision here, so that's a two way, two lane road and They've been cutting trees back and they have one lane cut off and then they have the guy with the sign that says stop and then he swivels it and it says slow. Right? You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm driving towards the guy and he turns the sign to stop. The car sees it and it stops. All right.

Okay.

That's good self driving. Then all the cars pass and I can go on the other side. He turns it to slow. The car goes around into the other lane with me doing nothing, drives through that one lane and then swerves back over afterwards. So they've, they've addressed the cones.

Wow.

But it's not perfect yet.

Yeah, no, I know, I know, but it'll get there. Okay, Kerry, I, I know you've got to run, but any final comments on where the economy is going, where the real estate market is going?

You know, anything, we're in for a ride, man. I think real estate will hold up even in a recession in select markets. But if these mass deportations, if they really take off like we're thinking here, that's going to have an effect on the real estate market, right?

Yeah, yeah, I agree. The very low end real estate market, definitely. I think, I think you are going to see some people leaving the country and I think long term that's good for the country and the economy and keeping costs down and deficits down. It's very good. It's what we need to do do. But it's not going to be without some short term pain.

Yeah, well, you know, the rule of law is more important than short term economic gains or pain.

Couldn't agree more.

It's going to be an interesting period of time here.

It certainly is. Carrie, give out your website. Tell people where they can find out more.

Of course. Financialsurvivalnetwork.com Everything that I've ever done is on that site. Every all 9,000 podcast or archive there, 9,000 plus at this point and sign up for your free newsletter. We shoot it out. Over 65,000 of you have so far and we got good stuff in it for you.

Good stuff. Kerry Lutz, thanks for joining us. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don't miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show's specific website and our general website, hartman media.com for appropriate disclaimers and terms of service. Remember that guest opinions are their own and if you require specific legal or tax advice or advice in any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional and we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to itunes or Stitcher radio or whatever platform you're using and write a a review for the show. We would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.