2322 FBF: Corruption at the World Bank with Karen Hudes Whistleblower and Former Attorney with the World Bank & Export Import Bank of the US

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Welcome to the Grading wealth show. This is your host, Jason Hartman. This is episode number 345. Lot of interesting stuff, a lot of great stuff going on. From a monetary and governmental perspective, I think the world is getting lot worse. You know, I was talking to someone yesterday and they were talking, we were talking about international markets and this move to expatriate from the US and get out of dodge if you will. And you know, I was saying my usual thing. I'm saying, look, I think the US is going in the wrong direction. Obviously the healthcare scenario is an epic disaster already and it hasn't even begun. I mean that the stupid government, for what did they spend 100 million or $400 million? Michelle Obama's classmate, of course, conveniently got the no bid government contract to build the website. Now I don't know how you could possibly spend 100 to $400 million on a website, unless of course you're the government. And I understand that website. Healthcare.gov. is that what it's called? What a joke. I went there myself. Which may be a giant surveillance program. Actually we should talk about that on a future show. And I think we posted an article about that in the members section, actually how Obamacare really isn't even about health care. It's about surveillance. Be careful visiting that website. Maybe disable your cookies. Don't accept cookies from that site because they are some claim the conspiratorial people who might be right by the way, claim that that website is being used as A huge tracking opportunity for the nsa. Anyway, I diverge again, where was I going with that? Yeah, and I understand that that website is complicated, you know, in the fact that it does a lot of things on the back end with the exchanges and so forth, but 100 to $400 million and the rumor on the street. Actually, it's not a rumor. Darrell Issa got some documents that show only six people actually signed up. 17 people the second day. I mean, isn't it funny that people think, you know, of course the website will be fixed, it will be working ultimately. I mean, even the government can make a working website, believe it or not. But it is mind boggling to me that people actually trust that our impotent, lame government could actually manage one sixth of the economy, that they could manage healthcare. I mean, they can't even launch a website, for God's sake. We will see. We will see. So, so my perspective, again, from a monetary perspective, from a mathematical economic perspective, the future is not good. And my, my way of countering that is game the system. Follow my philosophy of investing for bad monetary policy by owning commodities. Owning commodities with long term low fixed rate debt by below the rate of real inflation. But then on another perspective, and I've talked about this many times, technology may save us, it may save us all. How would that be? Well, just read an article today about how a father whose son was born with a birth defect. He didn't have one of his hands, blood flow was cut off and in the womb and one of his hands didn't develop properly. So he had this sort of stub of a hand with no fingers. Well, guess what? You know, I've been in love with this idea of 3D printing for about a decade now. The father downloaded plans on the Internet to 3D print a prosthetic hand. For free. Yes, free. Amazing. For free. He downloaded these plans and he made his son a working prosthetic hand. That is really pretty awesome. For ten dollars. Yep. Did you hear me? Ten bucks. Yeah. Two cups of coffee, two lattes at Starbucks. Basically ten bucks. He made a prosthetic hand, whereas normally you would pay $20,000 or more for this prosthetic hand. And the great thing about this 3D printing revolution, if you want to know more about this again, read the book Makers by Chris Anderson, the editor of Wired Mag. Phenomenally interesting. We've got to get him on the show. And by the way, I just had John Stossel on. I believe that interview is in the member section. I also had John McAfee speaking of John's from the McAfee virus protection frame, if any of you think if you're listening to this other real estate show and they're always talking about investing in Belize, you're going to want to hear this interview with John McAfee about his experience, his very, very scary experience in Belize. So that'll be coming up. I think that'll be show number 351. But anyway, the future is bright in so many ways. And read the Bookmakers by Chris Anderson. Unbelievable advances in 3D printing. But it's not only the cost, not only that this, this prosthetic hand only cost $10 to make for his son. It's the fact that you can constantly tweak it and tinker with it and make it better. So, for example, if you, the hand that he's made now, you know, he thinks it could be improved, heck, in a half hour, a half hour he can go and he can change the design and tweak the design and his son can have a new hand tomorrow. I mean, this is a game changer, folks, a massive game changer. As I may have mentioned to you, I'm launching a new show soon called the Longevity show. And I've been interviewing people for that show and it's been fascinating. You know, some of this stuff, frankly, folks, it's just kind of a hobby for me. I'm just interested in the topic. When I was a kid, I always loved science and was very interested in that and some of the advances in longevity which create huge economic issues, by the way, that will influence housing prices, monetary policy, entitlement programs. I mean, just giant issues. So it all relates back to our thinking as real estate investors and our thinking, thinking as ways to game the system and how we invest for all of these radical changes. Well, amazing technologies that are coming our way so quickly that are here today that are changing things so quickly.

Welcome to this week's edition of Flashback Friday. Your opportunity to get some good review by listening to episodes from the past that Jason has hand picked to help you today in the present and propel you into the future. Enjoy.

So again, technology may save us all from the impending doom of our bad government and our bad monetary policy and our spendthrift ways in this country. So we will see. And heck, we're not the only country. America is not the only one. You know, these problems are pretty much global as so many countries have spent themselves into oblivion in so many ways. Just ask Japan, just ask China with their upcoming demographics problem. You know, if you Think China has got it made? No way. China has huge problems coming its way that are just going to be, going to be really, really bad. And I think the US Is still in a pretty favorable position. But I was talking to someone yesterday, I told you about the grass is always greener concept of this, this movement to expatriate and look for greener pastures elsewhere in other countries. And Earl Nightingale had this great quote. He said if the grass is greener, maybe it's because the grass is getting more care over there on your neighbor's lawn. Well, the grass is still the greenest here, I think, although it's starting to look a little dingy. I just think it has a long way to go before we want to think about moving onward. So anyway, hey, thank you to all of you who have purchased our special deal, the Meet the Masters home study course, the physical product for half the price of the digital product. I know this is like upside down, makes no sense at all, but that product is available again@jason hartman.com Gosh, I think that link is jason hartman.com closeout or you can just go to it directly from the product page and that is available. Well, supplies last. There's not many left, but I do have some left and I want to get those sold asap. But thank you for all of you who've purchased them. I shipped my first batch out last week and I tell you, it felt kind of good to ship those, the physical product because we always sell things digitally and anyway that's available, buy them while they last. There's not many left. I think I've got one more box of these and they're $247, half the price of the digital product. We'll get that to you as quick as possible. But that's got I think about 15 hours. I think it's 22 speakers if I'm not mistaken, talking about great different things from Meet the Masters. And our Meet the Masters event live is coming up in Irvine, California in January. That will most certainly sell out pretty quickly because a lot people have been registering. So we look forward to seeing you all there, getting in on those early bird prices, which by the way, do go up as time progresses. So those two things, and then the last thing I want to tell you before we get to our guest is if you are a contrarian investor, if you are one of those opportunity type investors that like to do things, you know, that's a little bit out of step with the norm. And a lot of times these are the people that of course, make the most money. Well, check out our website under the properties section, jasonhartman.com properties because we have a bit of an inventory glut in one of our markets right now. Kansas City, we're pretty much sold out there. St. Robert, we're pretty much sold out there. Austin, Texas, pretty hard to source inventory right now. But Memphis has got, we have on our website, which you know, is never totally current, but it's, it's pretty good indicator. We have literally 17 properties available right now@jasonhartman.com properties in Memphis. And that is amazing. It's almost never that high. And these range in price from about $65,000 on up. And the return on investments here are projected at anywhere between, oh, here's one at 36% annually, 38% annually, 41% annually, 37% annually, 48% annually. That's the highest projected return. And again, these are based on pretty conservative assumptions. So check that out. Jasonartman.com properties and we've got some great shows coming up. Harry Dent has been in our members section, but we will broadcast that show on the podcast soon. We've got Kevin Armstrong coming up, Everett Fernell, John McAfee, Steve Page is going to talk about credit enhancement. John Stossel will be coming up. Jeff Deisich, CEO of Equity Trust is coming up to talk a little bit about some new tweaks on investing with your self directed ira. So a lot of great stuff, but let's get to our guest and we will be back in just a moment. It's my pleasure to welcome Karen Hudes to the show. She studied law at Yale Law School and economics at the University of Amsterdam and had a very long tenure at the World bank, about 21 years in fact, and has a tremendous amount of experience. She is working with a group of whistleblowers on various issues. And I think you'll find her experience and what she has to say today to be very, very interesting. Karen, welcome. How are you?

I'm fine. Thank you so much for having me.

Jason, the pleasure is all mine. Where are you located today, just out of curiosity?

Right out of Washington D.C. ah, right.

Near the Beltway, where I call it the new bailout capital of the world.

I live right down the block from where Larry Summers used to live.

Very interesting, very interesting. Well, you're in the thick of it. You definitely are. Tell us a little bit about your very long tenure at the World Bank. And you actually retired a little bit early, didn't you?

Yes, I did. I went to The Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and told them that there was corruption at the World Bank. And Senator Lugar wrote three letters to the World bank saying, don't fire this lady. And they promptly fired me, much to my chagrin and surprise.

Well, can you imagine that? They don't like people saying that the organization for which you work has corruption going on. Right.

Well, actually, I didn't just go right straight to the U.S. congress. It took me 10 years. I did what a lawyer is supposed to do when they work for an organization that has bonds on the capital markets. The World bank has $180 billion worth of bonds. So I went up the corporate ladder. I went to the Audit Committee and then I went to the U.S. treasury for about two, three years, trying very strenuously at all of those levels to get things straightened out. And I just went to the US Congress as I was obligated to do as a lawyer working for an organization that has bonds publicly traded.

Yeah, because in other words, what you mean there is that you couldn't just come out and do things recklessly because it could collapse those bonds. Right.

Well, also, you remember just a couple of days ago, President Obama was criticizing Eric Snowden for jumping the gun and not giving all of the institutions a chance to do their job. Nobody can criticize me because I did exactly what, you know, I played by the book all the way.

Yeah. Well, it's amazing. So what kind of corruption did you become aware of?

That's a very, very important question at the time when I first started blowing the whistle. See, the worst thing about a cover up is it snowballs. And what I was first blowing the whistle on was corruption at the end of the East Asia financial crisis in 2000, when in the Philippines there was a President Joseph Estrada, who was corrupt. And I was working on a banking sector loan. The second largest bank in the Philippines, the borrower, one of the borrowers was Philippine National Airlines, which was in default on its loans. And the man who owned Philippine National Airlines bought stock from the employees in Philippine national bank. And then the conditions in the loan couldn't be met. And I went to the man who was in charge of that project in the Philippines and I told him that he had to write a letter to the government telling the government that the World bank could not disburse the rest of the loan. And instead he had me reassigned. Now I had been working together with the Chief justice of the Philippines at the time, Hilario de Vida. And I stayed in touch with Hilario de Vida through the Thick and thin of this. What happened on that loan was we ended up canceling the loan for $200 million. And then there was Japanese financing that got cancelled for $200 million. And the people who had their money on deposit in Philippine national bank had a run on the bank. And so Philippine Deposit Insurance Corporation had to bail out that bank for $500.

Million, basically their equivalent of our FDIC. Right?

That's right. And so that was $900 million worth of problem loan. And at the end of a project, the World bank writes an evaluation. And the evaluation said that we could not have foreseen that this was going to happen. And so I went to the evaluation department and I said, sounds like the.

Way Moody's rated a lot of that toxic debt that we just dealt with, right?

That's right. I went to that group and I said, you're lying to the board. You can't do that. You have to correct that. And they didn't, and they tried to fire me, and I didn't like that. So I, you know, I studied in Holland. So together with the man who represented the Dutch government, we went to see Jim Wolfensohn, who was the president of the World bank at the time, and we said, there's corruption in the Philippines and you're lying to the board. And Jim Wolfenson said, oh, don't worry, I'll fix that. And Jim Wolfenson's idea of fixing that was to tell my boss that I had been up there to complain about him.

So. Unbelievable. One thing, it doesn't snowball, just like you said, but, for example, in this case, with this bit of corruption, I know there are many examples, and hopefully we'll get time to share a few others. But, you know, what was the motivation for this? Who profited? As Deep Throat said, you know, follow the money. Where was the profit in seeing this bank bailout and the $900 million loss?

This I didn't know at the time. It's just that by sticking with the problem, I found out, and the answer to that question is that there is a corrupt group that's very, very powerful. And they thought that they were so powerful that they could act with impunity. And one of the things that that group has done, and I know who they are now, at the time, if I had known who they were and how powerful they were, I probably never would have started.

Are you going to give the name of this group?

Yes, and I'll tell you exactly who they are and what they're doing, because we have stopped Them, we have stopped them in their tracks. This group is responsible for corrupting the United States government. And they have. They, they're the ones that own all of the major financial institutions. They own the Federal Reserve Board, they have bought up. You know, they don't have that much money. I mean, they have a lot of money, but their power is ten times more than their money would account for.

Are you going to say the Rothschilds?

Certainly, yeah, that group is there, but it's more than that because this syndicate predates the Rothschilds. There was a corrupt group in the United Kingdom that teamed up with the Jesuits in the Vatican before the Rockefellers ever came on the scene.

What year are you talking about to give us some perspective?

Oh, 1200. This group has been corrupting everybody since 1200.

Wow. Yeah.

So that's who they are. And, you know, they never thought that people were going to get find out who they were because they thought they were so powerful. And one of the really good things about the World bank is it's a knowledge bank and there's a very, very accurate political analysis tool that was actually developed in the defense industry. And this political scientist, Jacek Kubler, came to the World bank in 2004, and I modeled rule of law with him. And this model has been predicting ever since I testified in the UK Parliament and the European Parliament that we were going to have rule of law, that all of the people in the world were going to work together to eradicate this corruption. And that's exactly what we've done, and that's exactly what's happened.

So good for you. You scored a win. I mean, does the group have a name? It's before the Rothschilds. I mean, what's the name of this group?

Well, I think the Jesuits would be where this started. But no, there's the Knights, you know, from Malta, and there's a whole. It's a conglomerate. It's not any one place. It's not any one place. But they've been teaming up to do this.

Right. One thing I want to ask you, and I think it would really help the listeners clarify some things. You know, there are three organizations that are kind of. I don't think people really understand exactly what they do or what their role is. Like. Can you just give a brief explanation of what is the World Bank's role? What is the role of the IMF or the International Monetary Fund? And what is the role of the Council on Foreign Relations? I mean, you dealt with. You worked for one group for 21 years and you dealt with the other two pretty extensively, it sounds like.

Yes. Well, at the end of World War II, this institution, World Bank, IMF, they're called the Bretton Woods Institutions, named for the ski resort in New Hampshire where they were set up.

And the famous Bretton woods meetings, of course.

That's right. And they were set up. You know, there's the agenda that was above the table and then there's the agenda that was hidden. And I didn't know anything about the agenda that was hidden until after I got involved in trying to clean up this corruption. But what was above the table and what is there and what will help us going forward is the fact that the World bank is a cooperative. At the time, it was set up by 44 countries, but it's now grown to be 188 of them. And one of the people who was at that original conference was a Dutch lawyer named Aaron Brages. Aaron Broges was an old man by the time I got to know him in the mid-90s. And he gave me the operation manual for the World Bank. He said that the legal department is in a very important strategic position in the World bank and imf. Because what you have is they looked at what happened in the United nations where it was one country, one vote, and that doesn't work. It just doesn't work. So what they did was they tried to weight the votes in accordance with the economic power of the institution. And then in the beginning, they had a board of 12 executive directors. That number has grown to 25 now. But the seven biggest economies each get their own executive director. The United States, Russia, China, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Saudi Arabia, and then the rest of the countries get grouped in what they call constituencies. And so what you have is you have a forum where you can actually work out what the problems are in a very. In a deliberate way. It's convening the parties before a war. The main reason that the World bank was set up and the IMF was set up was to prevent a future war. Because a lot of wars happen because of economic imbalances and they can't. There's no place to work them out. And this very accurate stakeholder analysis on rule of law started predicting. And that was the reason that I didn't walk away from the problem, because it's very, very accurate. And it was predicting that if the US would play by the rules, if this corruption would be stamped out, that the United States and Europe would continue to govern in what they call a post. Well, a lot of people call it different things, but like a coalition. But it also predicted that if the corruption continued, there would be a terrible currency war and that the Asian economies, which are growing and are gaining in strength, that there would be a currency war, and that those economies would come up very fast. And so it's in the United States interest, security interest to fight this corruption. And so in 2008, I spoke to Chuck Hagel about this, and when he became the Secretary of Defense, and don't forget, it was Barack Obama who appointed Chuck Hagel to this. So I went to the Defense Department and I said, who knows about the stakeholder analysis? And I went to the Inspector General's office and the next weekend that person contacted me on LinkedIn. And I have been in touch with them now for about five or so months. And we've been working the problem through, we've been involving the governors. I started involving all the state attorneys general in this corruption problem back in 2011. I've now involved.

Tell the listeners what your position was at the World Bank. What did you actually do? I mean, you were a lawyer, you worked in the legal department, right?

That's right. And I was also interviewed for the job of general counsel. And when the executive search firm asked me, why are the general counsels all getting fired left and right, I said, it's a very easy answer. It's because there's corruption and the board is very angry that the corruption is not being resolved. And it's the legal department whose job it is, working with the board to stamp out this corruption. So I have been, you know, since I was fired, I have been writing and meeting with all of the different countries, the executive directors. I've been testifying in Parliament, UK Parliament and the European Parliament. And, you know, we've been talking about the stakeholder analysis and the fact that we will ultimately prevail if we just stick to it. And that's exactly where we are. And we have prevailed. But the corrupt people have bought up all the media and refused to tell the people what's happened.

Right, so when you say we have prevailed, to whom are you referring?

It's 188 ministers of finance. And right now where the matter stands is I have now written to the people who are in charge of putting items on the agenda of the General assembly, and I've told them to put this item on the General assembly. The fact that this corruption is finished and that all the people of the world need to know this, so we're ending the COVID up with a flourish. I would say, wow, that's who we are.

I've just got to ask you, someone in your position doing this, aren't you concerned about your safety or. Well, first, the safety issue.

Yeah. Because these guys play tough.

Oh, I'm sure they do. I have no doubt about that. These very powerful forces would benefit by you going away, wouldn't they?

Yes, but the way I've been doing this, first of all, I started out being totally ignorant of the problem or the danger, and people didn't think I was going to get this far. So in the early part, it wasn't that dangerous. I was just sort of flailing around helplessly. Not really helplessly. What I was doing was I was laying the foundation. So, for example, one of the pieces of evidence that I have is a very detailed chronology of exactly who did what to whom. Don't forget, I was going to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, which was chaired by Joe Biden and had Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton on it and Senator Lugar. So this was my coalition in the US Congress. And, you know, I've worked with all of the different committees. The Banking Committee, the Committee on Appropriations, I've worked with the House. You know, there is hardly a representative in the US Congress that doesn't. That has not been involved one way or another. And the US Congress, when they gave money to the World bank, put a big condition on there. They said, we're not going to disperse a penny until the whistleblowers are made whole. So there, you know, we've got the US Congress foursquare behind us. But anyway, so was I afraid. Well, when I started to realize what was going on, I went to. I've been helped all along the way by any number of people. And don't forget, I'm just one of a group. So there was no way by doing anything to me that the problem was going to go away. This group was going to continue. And one of the people that has been extremely helpful is a guy named Larry Garrison, who's my PR guy. And people knew that if anything happened to me, and he stuck with me. If anything happened to me, this was going to be big news.

That Garrison, that just sounds so reminiscent of the JFK assassination. Wasn't, wasn't. Wasn't the DA's name Garrison or something like that?

Oh, I, you know, I can spend the whole rest of the time talking about the Kennedy assassination because a good friend of mine actually was involved in suing Lyndon Baines Johnson, who was going to go to jail until after the assassination. And there's papers on that.

Yeah, I mean. I mean, didn't. What. Let's not get off on this tangent. Maybe we'll do a whole other show about it. But. But didn't Kennedy. Wasn't he one of the people pushing to end the Federal Reserve? That's what I've read.

Absolutely.

You don't want to say that kind of stuff when you're in power because there are a lot of people bigger than the President of the United States.

This goes back to Lincoln. This goes back to, you know, so many of the early.

Well, Lincoln was under a different central bank. I mean, we've had three central banks in the U.S. but we didn't have the Federal Reserve in its current form under Lincoln, obviously.

No, but he, you know, and when the debt was coming due, this is when the squeeze was being put on these presidents. No, it is not. This is not a little problem, but we have it licked now, actually.

Right, right. Well, we have really. We have it licked. I mean, we don't have the problem of central banks licked. They still devalue our currency, but. Yeah, go ahead.

All right. This business about central banks, you know, a lot of people like to make it very, very complicated, but it really is not all that complicated. You can have real money, like coins like silver and gold, or you can have paper money. And it was always the intention of the founders of this country that we would have real money. And it was a lot of effort on the part of these central bankers to get us off track. And it's very easy to get back on track. So, for example, North Dakota has its own state bank. Virginia has recognized its own. Silver and gold is legal tender. And any number of other states are about to do that. There are any number of organizations that are now issuing currency that's backed by commodities. It doesn't have to be gold.

And there's even Bitcoin. That's basically a mathematical equation.

Yes. So it's a very easy thing to move away from this paper currency.

Oh, sure it is.

And you don't even have to abolish the paper currency. You just give people a choice and who would rather be paid with paper or with real currency.

Look, Karen, we all know what would happen immediately. People would flock away from the fiat money. That's why they have legal tender laws to force us into this box, that we have to use their fiat currencies. You know, I mean, it's just. It's of course, ridiculous, but that's what governments do.

Well, what has happened now is that you've got the brics countries, Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa that have moved away from the fiat currencies. And so the world is now not stuck to the dollar anymore. And so things are going to move very, very fast and this powerful group is powerless to prevent it.

Well, I don't know if they are. They influence the largest military on earth.

Okay, now let me tell you where we are with the military.

I don't have any worries about the US losing its position, having the reserve currency of the world. I mean, I think that is here to stay for a lot longer than, than some people think. We may disagree on that, but go ahead.

I'll tell you why they're vulnerable. They're vulnerable because they have done so many terrible things and there's a cover up. And there are enough people that know about what they've done and the COVID up. And so the fact that they have bought all of the media is not going to protect them because more than 70% of the American public has learned to distrust their captive media. So they are terribly vulnerable. All that has to happen is people have to listen to what's going on and their neighbors who know what's going on have to tell them and they're vulnerable. They've been breaking the law and they're not going to continue to break the law. That's all. They're finished. Well, they are finished. I went to the Defense Department when I wrote to the General assembly because what's happened with Germany, Germany asked for its gold back from the Federal Reserve and the Federal Reserve said no, that's an act of war. Now what Germany has done in the last couple of days is they've said they are not going to share intelligence information anymore with the United States. And I wrote to the Army, I said, I have been warning you, not Army. I wrote to the Defense Department, I said I had been warning you about this. And there is a very easy way in the national security interest to prevent this from continuing. This is very dangerous. This is very bad. And it is. If you back me, I said, and I'm telling everybody that you're backing me and if you're not backing me, I want you to say you're not. So that's where we are. Now if the Defense Department says that what I'm saying is incorrect and they're not backing me, then we have a problem. And if they are backing me, we have no problem. And people can find out, that's all. So the army is not supporting the Federal Reserve. The army is supporting rule of law. They're supporting me.

I hope you're right.

That's what I said. Because the last thing I said was, heaven help us all if I'm wrong.

I mean. I mean, look, when it comes down to that, and I want to go back onto the topic at hand here a little bit more, but history has shown, unfortunately, over and over and over again, that people with the ability to inflict violence, people with weapons, will, generally speaking, follow orders, even if it means attacking their own fellow citizens and doing really, really ugly things.

That's right. And so what I have done, as far as that goes, I have all bases covered here. There's a group inside the Department of Defense which teams up with the homeland security and 10 governors. And I've been in touch with them. They're under Assistant Secretary of Defense Peter Varga. I've been in touch with them. Every time the media starts trying to incite violence, either through false flags or crazy false reporting, I've gone back to this group and I've said, you had better correct the record and stop inciting violence, because we do not want violence. There's no reason for violence. We just simply follow the rules. We simply tell our citizens what's going on. And I have had any number of interviews, and a lot of citizens know this. And as a matter of fact, I just today got an email from somebody who said, you know, you've been telling us that you've been in touch with that group and the Homeland Security group that's supposed to keep peace, and I don't see any sign of it. And so I plastered that all over, and I forwarded that to the Department of Defense, and I sent it to all of the 188 members of the World bank. And I said, it's time for us to get our story straight. So that's where we are. It's time for us to get our story straight. Is the army backing rule of law, or is the army ripping off the American people? Where are they? I think they're with the American people. I don't think they're with the ripoff artists.

I hope you're right.

That's what I hope, too.

Yeah. Yeah, Most definitely. Well, okay, so when I asked you about the three organizations, the imf, the World bank, and the cfr, the Council on Foreign Relations, you talked about the. The two, but I don't think you touched on the Council on Foreign Relations. And they seem like they're cloaked in mystery. That group. I had G. Edward Griffin on the show, and I'm sure, you know who he is. He wrote the Creature from Jekyll island and.

Yeah, I've read that. It's a great book.

It's fascinating. You know, it's very, very, very comprehensive and very well done. And he's been on the show a couple of times and. And he really thinks that the. The point that needs to be influenced is the cfr. They are the ones who are really, really kind of running things. Do you have thoughts on the cfr? And maybe you can tell the audience a little bit about what it is they do and your interactions with them.

Yes. The Council on Foreign Relations is the hinge between the United States and the United Kingdom. A lot of people think that with the Revolutionary War that the United States won its independence. They don't know about the flow of funds where there were reparations paid and that the money that people are paying on their taxes are actually going back to the Vatican. It's a rude awakening. It sounds almost impossible. And believe me, I didn't want to believe this. I thought it was crazy when I heard that. But it happens, unfortunately, not to be crazy. And the Council on Foreign Relations is the group that, you know, it's almost like the Masons or any of these other secret societies where there are layers of secrecy and the people at the very top get to know the whole story, and the people down at the bottom are sort of hangers on and get to bask in the glory of the people. What it is, is it's people that are hogging information to try to gain power. And the reason why I am so convinced that this problem is over is because we have exposed this. These secret societies, it's like cockroaches. They have nowhere to go and hide. We know what they're doing. A lot of people know what they're doing, and we are holding them to account. And they have got to explain it to everybody what it is that they thought they were doing. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and it's not going to continue.

What do you. I mean, what if you think it's really not going to continue? What does the end of this secretive control of our economy? What does it mean? What will it look like and when will it end?

Well, a lot of this depends on how actively the people that are listening to your program take this news. Are they going to deny it? Are they going to say that I'm making absolutely no sense and go on about their business? Or are they going to try to figure out what's actually the case to go on my website, which is www.kahudes.net and read all of the articles and the proof and the background information. Are they going to make it their business to be citizens? If they are, then this is going to be a wonderful story because what's going to happen is we are simply seamlessly going to drive out that lousy money which is making everybody miserable with good money. And we can do it very simply and very expeditiously and then we can go on about our business. And one of the things that we're going to do is we're going to keep a lot of the money that we have been sending off to the Vatican. We've had this wacky accounting where what we do remember what happened with the post office, where we were pre funding all of the pensions in the post office and we were issuing bonds to try to finance those pensions. That's for the interest of the bankers. We don't have to do that. We can keep that money in our communities. We can use it as an economist. What happens when you keep money in your own community, with jobs in your community, is it has a multiplier effect. So it's like we think of a patient that has had their blood removed and they're anemic. We are going to keep our blood and we're going to be stronger. And how, how is this going to happen? It's going to happen because we're all going to recognize that what I'm saying is correct and we're all going to start taking these, you know, these transfusions, not transfusions. We're not getting the blood. We're taking, you know, these donations of our lifeblood in our country and we're going to keep it and we're going to grow from it and we're going to get stronger again. That's, you know, and that's how it's going to happen.

Yeah, well, that's. That's a very, very good point. So the great thing about this is, I mean, I remember doing seminars back in 2004, 2005, talking about these kinds of items and, you know, explaining inflation to people and explaining how the government makes us all poor by spending recklessly and then debasing the debt to foreign countries like China and Japan and making its own citizens poor at the same time by doing that. And back then, people kind of their eyes rolled back in their head. They didn't seem to really get it or want to pay att. And there were always a few in the audience. But nowadays people understand this stuff and you Know, I credit Ron Paul with a lot of that. The word is out. I mean, the common guy on the street understands a lot of this stuff now. And just eight years ago, that was not the case. And it just. Anecdotally, in my opinion.

Well, you know, it's just people like to make things complicated so everybody goes to sleep, and then they can keep on ripping everybody off. But it's not that complicated. It's really very straightforward. Is paper money or is, you know, gold and silver money, which is money. You know, that's really very basic, and it's not hard to understand. But, you know, one of the things that I think we're going to have to start really learning about is who are our friends and who are our enemies and what is our enemy? Because, you know, we've been misled deliberately. We've been kept apart. We've been, you know, Democrats, Republicans, or Catholics.

All these false little divisions. Right. I know it is.

And it's the same thing when you talk about these countries. Are they our enemies? I can tell you that if these countries were our enemies, we would have been left in the lurch. It's only because these countries want us to learn about these mistakes and correct them that we have a chance.

Well, you look at the terrorism threat. I mean, if they wanted to get us, don't you think they could have gotten us by now? Just many, many times over? Just seems to me like it's overplayed.

It's divide and conquer. It's the old game of divide and conquer. And so I can give you a very good example of how I've been trying to get things back on track. There was something called a Government Accountability Office inquiry into corruption at the World bank that was asked for by Senators Lugar, Leahy, and Bayh in 2008, and the World bank refused to let GAO do that inquiry. So then in 2010, I called up the Organizing for America, that Barack Obama's fundraising group, and I said, you're going to get bipartisan support if you try to fight this corruption. And so the person I spoke to said, I'll get back to you in a month, Karen. And he did. He said, yeah, Karen, go for it. And that's when I went to Senator Lugar's office, and Senator Lugar then published a report that said that GAO had withdrawn from the inquiry into corruption at the World bank because the World bank wouldn't cooperate. So that was bipartisan support. And there has been a lot of bipartisan support on this. We're not going to fight this corruption by trying to look at people who are outside our group and finding them suspicious. And this business about Muslims being bad, I can tell you they have been very, very good. They're the ones that know that you shouldn't have usury and interest.

They don't believe in debt.

You know, they got it right. So I can tell you that we are going to have to do some serious fence mending. We as a country and the people, the American people didn't know about it, but we as a country have gone to the leaders of other countries that were trying to protect their people and keep their economies growing and we have murdered their leaders so that we could plunder their countries. We have to do some very serious, serious soul searching on this because you can say, well we didn't know about it, it wasn't our fault. But you know, that's a little bit of a cop out. You have to take responsibility for being a citizen and for being informed.

No question about it.

We have some serious soul searching to do.

So just on a more practical level as it applies to people listening, how do you see the future economically? I mean, you have a Master's in economics or no, your undergrad is economics and law was your Master's.

Well, I went and studied in Holland and I got something called a Master of Mphil which is like a PhD without a thesis.

Ah, got it. Okay.

At the University of Amsterdam. So yeah, no, I'm an economist and I can say that I don't have a crystal ball. But what I do know is that this corruption and this secret society dominated elite approach to economic is gone. It's dead. And we are now in a totally different scenario where it's going to be up to us if we want to have our children learn real skills so that they can help create an economy that's vibrant and growing. We're going to keep a lot of the money that went siphoned off outside our country because of this corruption. We're going to keep it and we're going to grow with it. So I would say the sky is the limit. We are going to be living in a world of abundance.

So that is wonderful to hear. When do you think there will be a turning point? The dollar isn't going away tomorrow. When is that going to happen? And is the future inflationary or deflationary or just stable?

Well, the big issue is the flow of information because we have got a lot on our plate. First of all, there's something called gold backwardation. What that means is that People are losing confidence in paper currency and gold is being hoarded and people are not going to be selling their gold for paper currency pretty soon on the 7th of July. That's when gold leasing stopped because people were afraid they weren't going to get their gold back at the end of the leasing term. So the answer to your question is that there may be some serious hiccups along the way. It all depends on how seriously people respond to this information and how accountable they are as citizens. If they take what I'm telling them as, you know, not really very convincing and they don't bother to do their homework, then this can really get out of hand. We can go to hell in a handbasket. What happens if there is gold backwardation is that you stop being able to have international trade. And if you look at any of the goods that you buy, they have foreign components in there. Imagine that you can't assemble cars anymore.

Oh, it would be impossible.

It would make what happened in the 1930s look like it was nothing. So we have got to take this very, very seriously. We have got to overcome the fact that our media has been bought by these crooks. We've got to learn how to share information, learn from the information and act to hold our governments accountable. And when I say governments, I mean your local sheriff, I mean your local counties. Because I went to the national association of Counties and I said, you had better get your governors in line with this. We are all moving in the right direction at the right time to meet this challenge.

Well, I love when Obama really started on the gun control kick, a lot of these sheriffs in various counties said, you know, we're not going to enforce any such federal laws. Make them if you want. But that's just great to see because it shows that, you know, this whole command and control concept of the economy or of society in general, it shows resistance to that. And I think that's great. And we have the Internet, but they're starting to put restrictions on that and the spying and the monitoring is so.

Important to be serious about this right now.

Well, the window is open. Yeah, no, I agree. While the window is open.

That's right. You know, there's some people in Holland who I've been speaking to that, you know, they know exactly what's going on and they say that the whole fate of the world depends on the American people because we have our second Amendment. He said, you know, in Holland, if I walk down the street with a knife, I can be arrested. So we in the rest of the world are counting on the American citizens.

That's what one of my Canadian friends says. He believes that with technology, the window is closing so quickly because now the government has technology to control populations forever. I mean, like, indefinite. It gives them such a leg up.

They blew it. They blew it. And the word got out. They just. We won. Two bad guys. We won.

Well, I don't agree. We haven't won yet. And freedom has not won.

Here is the point. Here's how you know whether we've won. Here's how you know whether we've won. Just pay very careful attention to what the Department of Defense says to the executive directors at the World bank. Because I told them that the Department of Defense was backing me. If they're not backing me, they have to, they have to tell the executive directors. I said, I'm copying the Department of Defense on this email. I sent it today. And that's why, you know, I'm so grateful that you've given me this interview today. I said, you, you just ask the executive directors whether the Department of Defense is backing me or not. And it's not because I'm grandiose. I'm not grandiose. I am talking about a whole group of whistleblowers and I'm talking about rule of law in the entire world. And is the Department of Defense standing for the security interest of this country or are they standing for corruption? That's all. And it's a very simple, crisp question and it should be a simple, crisp answer.

Well, the website is K A H u D E s dot net. I just wanted to spell that out for our listeners. K A H U D E s dot net. I assume A is your middle initial Karen or is that just the first two letters of Karen? Okay, so it's K A and your last name h u-e s.net not a.com net. So what else would you like people to know? Just to wrap them up? I mean, the call to action, you've said it many, many times, so I think the listeners got that. But just any more information or any more resources that you want to give out.

Well, I just want to thank your listeners for listening and, you know, stay tuned and get active and be your own news collector. Don't just sit there and read, you know, the printed paper. You already know that it's not going to tell you what, what's going on.

The, the alternative media is where it's at. I mean, you're just that the stuff you see on, on, on the major television news networks is just so corporatized and it's just full of agenda, you know.

Exactly. And you know, and be good to your kids. You know, they're your future. Help them to think critically that they're not just, you know, learning by memorizing that they're asking questions, that they are not taking simple answers because they want to know who's telling them what it is and why that person's telling them what it is. Let them learn to sift through different versions so that they can answer questions.

Good stuff. Well, Karen, thank you so much for joining us today and keep getting the word out.

Okay, thanks for having me. Jason.

Have you listened to the Creating wealth series? I mean, from the beginning? If not, you can go ahead and get book one that shows 1 through 20 in digital download. These are advanced strategies for wealth creation. For more information, go to Jason hartman.com this show is produced by the Hartman Media Company. All rights reserved. For distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www.hartmanmedia.com or email mediaartmanmedia.com Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own and the host is acting on behalf of Platinum Properties Investor Network, Inc. Exclusively.