2398 FBF: Parag Khanna - Connectography, Mapping the Future of Global Civilization, CNN Global contributor, Senior Research Fellow at the Centre on Asia & Globalisation at National University of Singapore

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Welcome to episode number 678, 678. This is Jason Hartman, your host. Thank you so much for joining me today as we talk about Connectography. Yes, that's a cool word, isn't it? Connectography, mapping the future of global civilization. This fascinating talk, and we will get into that with our guest Parag Khanna, a CNN contributor, here in just a moment. But first, I want to tell you about the really two cool properties I just purchased in Memphis. Again, my twofer. I'm calling it a twofer. It's a two-for-one. You sell one property, 1031 exchange, Income property, the most tax-favored asset in America, not only because of depreciation— if you qualify for that, you're going to be in awesome shape because that is the holy grail of tax benefits— but of course because of the 1031 tax-deferred exchange. And I did two of these last year. I've done one so far this year. I think I'm gonna do another one or two this year if I can, where I sell one property but get two more in the bargain, and I get to increase my cash flow by about 30%, somewhere right in that range. And I gotta tell you, I just, I love these two properties. Uh, I did have to, I, you know, and I think this is actually the first time in all these years— how long have I been investing nationwide and just dealing with investors? About 13 years now, 12, 13 years, somewhere in that ballpark. That I actually had trouble because of lack of inventory, trouble finding some darn properties. It's, it's tough out there, but I stuck with it. And one of our local market specialists— I mean, listen, folks, this is me, you know, yours truly. I'm having to go beg for properties. So believe me, when you complain about how inventory is kind of scarce, I know how you feel. Like Bill Clinton would say, I feel your pain. That's not a very good imitation, is it? No, I'm not too good at imitations. Oh well, I can't sing very well either, but I'm okay at podcasting and public speaking anyway. So yeah, no, I got 2 good properties. Really excited about those 2 and can't wait to get those puppies closed. And I tell you, stick with it. Do not be discouraged. We have brought on a couple new local market specialists. Recently, and that is helping with the inventory problem. Let me just tell you about my little properties I bought here. And you know, you can buy these type of properties too. It just wasn't super easy for me. I was, I'm getting to the deadline on my exchange where you have to identify, you have to formally identify what properties you're purchasing in your exchange. And of course I've got 180 days to close. That won't be any problem., but the identification, you only have 45 days. And gosh, it took me, I think, 36 days to just get to the identification stage. I don't like that kind of stress. I wish I just identified right away, right? So here's one, $112,900. And this one, uh, basically projected rent, $1,250 per month. Hey, that ain't bad. Projected cash flow of $300 per month. And let me see, the cap rate 8.2%, the debt coverage ratio based on 25% down is 1.79, very good. And overall return on investment projected at 35%, cash on cash projected at 12%. I thought that was quite an exceptional deal. And let me tell you about the other one I bought. Now this one does not have a garage. It's a double carport house. It's got a new roof, new HVAC and new flooring, $92,900, $92,900. And what do we got here? 14% cash on cash projected based on $1,150 per month in, in rent, and overall ROI projected at 38%. I tell you folks, income property, the most historically proven asset class in the entire world. You know, I'm just waiting for someone to debate that with me. Hey, if you're out there listening and you want to come on the show and have a little friendly debate with me about what is the most historically proven asset class in the world, let's do that. I would really like someone to challenge me on this because no one, no one is challenging me on that. So why in the world is anybody investing in anything else? Tell me this. Explain it to me. Like, remember Ricky Ricardo on Lucille Ball? Lucy, you got some explaining to do. Yes. Okay, so explain it to me. Why is anybody— why is anybody investing in anything else when income property is the most historically proven asset class in the world? Now, there are two other things that I like quite well. One is your own business. If you have your own business, I think you should invest in your own business, but you need to really feel very good about your business. Businesses have a lot of moving parts. They're very risky. They can, you know, we've seen many businesses of all sizes be taken down overnight. Look at Lehman Brothers. Lehman Brothers, right? Too big to fail? Thankfully not. You know, I'm, I'm all for letting them fail. They were in business for what, 156 years? They were huge bazillionaires and they were taken out. Okay, so businesses are risky and that is why you should not put all your eggs in the one basket. If you have a business and it's a successful business, yeah, invest in your business for sure, but diversify outside of your business. Okay. And then the other thing I like, I like doing some hard money lending, although, you know, that requires more attention than I would like to think off the top of my head, because it seems like I'm always messing around or running to the bank to send a wire or, you know, checking to make sure the calculations were right on a deal I'm doing.

Welcome to this week's edition of Flashback Friday, your opportunity to get some good review by listening to episodes from the past that Jason has handpicked to help you today in the present and propel you into the future.

Enjoy. You know, the real estate is just such a— it's the best thing. It's the best thing going. Owning the actual property, best thing going. Okay, so Brittany sent me the list of winners from our glorious little contest. And thank you to all of you who entered our little contest. We will have some more of these now that we're getting— I think we're getting a little better at this. We've got an actual piece of software that is helping us run the contest. We've never had that before. We've always done it manually, and that's, that's too difficult. So the winners— here are all the people who won tickets to our Cincinnati, Dayton, uh, Ohio property tour coming right up. It's coming up quick. Okay, now we had a grand prize winner that got an all-expense-paid trip, and then we had winners who got free tickets. And of course, when you get free tickets, just get yourself there, rent your hotel room. The hotel is gorgeous and it's cheap, so that's good. And all of your meals during the tour are included, so you, you're not going to take your, your wallet out of your pocket for really anything, except maybe you want to write a check to buy some good investment property. So we got— I'll just read first names only. Names have been changed to protect the innocent, as they say. So you've either received an email on this by now and/or your investment counselor hopefully has contacted you. And if not, please contact your investment counselor because these all happen to be assigned people. I don't know if you've purchased any properties yet, but you're in our system. So Art you're a winner. Aaron, you're a winner. Jonathan, you're a winner. Steven, you're a winner. Isabelle, you're a winner. Ben, you're a winner. And Steve— not Steven, Steve— you are a winner as well. So we got Steve and Steven in there. So those are the winners for tickets. And I believe we had one of our other prizes was a JHU membership. I don't have that list offhand, but Certainly you should have received an email about that or been contacted by your investment counselor. So congratulations. Thank you for entering the contest. Let's jump over to our guest right now and talk about— Coco, you're being noisy there. Our listeners, they will know there is a puppy in the room. Well, you're not a puppy anymore, but you're a dog. Okay, so Coco, my assistant here, making a little noise. Sorry about that. So let's jump over to our guest, Parag Khanna. This guy is fascinating, CNN contributor. This book he wrote is just really interesting, and I think it bodes so well for the future. And I want you to listen carefully to this concept that I bring up toward the end of the interview about the looming asset shortage in the world, and that hearkens back to that article I shared you quite a while back and a couple times since, but many years ago at the beginning, maybe even 9, 10 years ago. Hey, this podcast is one of the oldest real estate investing podcasts out there, so we've been doing this a while. And that is by Jeremy Siegel and Michael Milken, a fascinating article about the looming asset shortage. And I bring this discussion up toward the end of of this interview, but the whole thing is just darn fascinating. So let's jump over and hear from Parag about connectography. Let's listen in. It's my pleasure to welcome Parag Khanna. He is a CNN Global Contributor and Senior Research Fellow at the Center on Asia and Globalization at the National University of Singapore and the author of several books including Connectography: Mapping the The Future of Global Civilization, and he's coming to us today from beautiful Singapore. Parag, welcome.

How are you? Great. Thanks so much. Good to be with you.

Yeah, it's good to have you on. So Connectography, great title, by the way. What does it mean?

Thank you. I'm glad you like it. I'm fond of coining new words, and this is the latest in a long line. Connectography is obviously the fusion of connectivity and geography, and it stems from the realization that that the forces of connectivity, particularly infrastructure of all kinds like our transportation networks and energy routes and pipelines and even of course internet cables, all represent a force that is as powerful as that ancient adage that geography is destiny. Instead, I say connectivity is destiny.

So some would say demographics is destiny or our destiny. I think is would be the appropriate way to say that. But you're saying connectivity is. That's a very good point. You know what I like to say as I talk about the autonomous vehicles and the world being so small nowadays is that geography is less meaningful than it's ever been in human history. It's certainly still meaningful, but it's less meaningful than ever.

Would you agree with that? I'm glad you say that because that's of course the, you know, the thesis of this book that we have long believed that geography constrains us and in permanent and irreversible ways, but now through the power of connectivity, we are able to alter our destiny more than ever before. And in a way, even though some people say demographics is destiny, the truth is, as I point out in the book, just because you have a billion people in Africa and a billion people in India and a billion people, more than a billion in China, it doesn't mean that they're all equally weighted. What makes the difference between them, between their wealth and their influence in the world, is in fact their degree of connectivity. So your geography only becomes important, your demographics only become important in the world when you become connected. So fundamentally, connectivity does matter more.

Right. And it is fascinating the way people around the world are starting to exchange ideas. And just the whole networked economy, I, I think is just leading to incredible, amazing things. I always like to say it's an amazing time to to be alive. Is the thesis of Connectography really an optimistic thesis overall?

A lot of people say that it's a very optimistic book, but basically in the long run, we are making the kinds of investments in connectivity that make the world more resilient. So let me give you a couple of examples. Energy supplies. 10 years ago, I'm sure you had guests on the program that were talking about how there was going to be an inevitable war between the United States and China over oil and gas in the Middle East or African minerals. 10 years later, right now, it turns out that the United States is selling oil to China. In the last 10 years, the U.S. has become the largest producer of oil and gas in the entire world. And as of last month, we officially export it straight to China. So in Beijing today, they're not saying, look, we're going to have to fight with America over oil. Instead, they're saying, let's buy more of America's oil. So you can see how more connectivity, more technology has actually created some resilience in the system. So there's many examples I have in the book of how the more connectivity we build, the more, if you will, the better the outcome is for society as a whole.

Well, I would, I would totally agree with that. And I remember when I was reading John Nesbitt's old books, Megatrends and Megatrends 2000, many years ago, you know, he talked about how the, the more connected the world is and the more commerce and the more trade that occurs, I mean, look, people don't generally want to kill their customers. Maybe occasionally they do, but if we're trading and if the world is more capitalistic and there is more connectivity, which leads to more trade, certainly, the whole idea of major war really subsides quite a bit. It's only the small radical populations that don't engage in the connectography, if you will, and don't engage in modern commerce and so forth that are not buying into that idea, right?

Yeah. And we have more reasons not to fight than we have to fight. So if you look at the number of international border conflicts, it's fallen to nearly zero. The Russian invasion of Ukraine and seizure of Crimea is the last major sort of incident. And that also did not lead to World War III, fortunately. But by and large, border disputes are being settled peacefully. And so, and where, when people like John Nesbitt and others were writing a couple of decades ago about trade and interdependence, they were looking at how a century ago, Great Britain and Germany traded a lot with each other, but still World War I broke out. Today, we have not only a greater degree of trade interdependence than we had 100 years ago, we also have nuclear deterrence, we have financial integration, we own so much of other countries' public and private debt, and they own so much of ours. We also have supply chain dispersal. Like you said, you don't want to kill your customer. You also don't want to destroy the country where all of your stuff is made.

Yeah, you don't want to kill your vendor either.

Germany. Right, so Germany didn't make its goods in Britain, and Britain didn't make its goods in Germany. Today, Walmart makes most of its goods in, of course, China. So if you were gonna fight a war with China, you'd wanna make sure that you pulled out all of your Walmart factories first, and that takes a very long time to do, unless you wanna guarantee that your largest retailer goes bankrupt, but I don't think we want that to happen.

Right, yeah, yeah, no question about it. Those who would argue about the idea of redistributing wealth, I mean, in favor of it, I would say in this example, you know, it still seems, and this is debatable, I think it's highly debatable, but maybe it's just more visible nowadays with the connectography we have, but there's still such a massive difference in the haves and the have-nots and certainly the haves are becoming richer and richer. And so I don't know, you know, that does lead me to a— and I'm definitely not a socialist or communist at all. I'm very libertarian in my thinking. But that leads me to some concern about this. And, and maybe the connectography foments some, some envy, really, because now we can see each other better and the have-nots will become more upset about the haves possibly. I don't know.

Well, yeah, we know that that is happening, and the reason is that domestic inequality— so the gap between you and your neighbor, or the person who lives in the, in the, in the sort of slums and the person who lives downtown— has grown wider than the gap across countries. You know, the gap between someone in the average American and the average Indonesian has gone down, but the gap between someone in Manhattan and Brooklyn has gone up, you know. So obviously that does create a lot of friction within countries. At the same time, we don't solve inequality just by talking about it, and we know that we're not going to get the kind of tax reforms and redistribution that would make even a dent in inequality. What we have to focus on is raising the disposable income and reducing poverty in the bottom 25, 30, 40% of populations. And the way you empower people like that is through jobs, through investment in infrastructure, through connectivity.— if you will, digital connectivity, lower-cost energy, all of the things that make it cheaper to buy and sell goods, affordable housing, good public transportation systems. If we invest in those things, then at least everyone will have a decent quality of life.

Yeah.

What do you say— and this may not really be your area, but I just thought I'd ask you— when you talk about investing in things and so forth, when you look at the debt levels of all of these major countries, of course the U.S. included, Japan most definitely, but it's like everybody. I mean, the world has just got this massive amount of debt. Is that sustainable? It's, it's just uncharted territory. Will it lead to really tough monetary issues? I mean, there have been many complaints about organizations like the IMF and the World Bank and their involvement development in developing countries and really oppressing these countries through debt. That's been the complaint. I mean, those are all complex factors.

Yeah. Well, we are all heavily indebted, actually. So it's not just poor— the debt-to-GDP ratio in the United States is triple digits. In European countries, it's over 200%. In Japan, it's something like 300%. So we are all heavily in debt. Personal debt, corporate debt, public debt is all very, very high in many countries in the world. And what bothers me is that since the financial crisis, as the debt has ballooned, we have not translated that into investment. We have not taken advantage of a zero interest rate environment to make investments in infrastructure, to sort of literally to physically renew and regenerate our economic foundations. It's a big wasted opportunity, and I continue to argue for every day that we make those investments before it's too late.

Why is that, though? Is it that the banksters are just hoarding all the money?

What's going on that's causing that? No. It would be very easy to blame them. Of course, there has been a drop-off in bank lending to the households and communities that need it the most. As a result, though, in a way, society is filling those gaps. Through credit unions and other sorts of means. But here the fault lies with our politics, because we don't think about long-term investments, because that just represents spending more money in the short term, which turns off voters. But in the long term, everyone benefits. So, you know, because we're not thinking long term and because everything is either a short-term election cycle of 4 years or 2 years, or of course, as you mentioned, with with corporations thinking about quarterly returns and not getting paid back on long maturity bonds and investments. There's a lot of ways in which short-term thinking manifests itself and those are two of the ones that really hold us back.

Where do we go from here? I mean, tell us more about how this connectography will influence us in the future in the years to come.

Well, I've made an argument that we need to literally remap the United States. The US lives by this antiquated political cartography whereby the 50 states and borders are sacred and we're so federalist in nature, but that's not the way the United States has progressed over the last couple of hundred years. We've had projects like the Erie Canal and the Louisiana Purchase and the Pacific Railroads and the Tennessee Valley Authority and the interstate highway system. All of these were multi-state stretching across the country. We used to think continentalism continentally about how to harness our natural resources and human resources and infrastructure. And we don't do that anymore, and that makes our economy less competitive. It makes us all less well off, and therefore we need to think about how to build a better map of America physically. And so I talk about building more clusters across cities with better transportation networks, the need for a national broadband strategy and better internet connectivity for people across the country, and of course better ports and railways and railroads so that we can have more efficient transmission of goods and mobility around the country. All of those things are absolutely essential for the next 5 to 10 years.

And, you know, I've often said— I mean, I've been saying this for a long time, you know, the UN was years ago working on that $100 laptop program. I guess that never got really got off the ground from what little I know about it. Of course, now smartphones in developing countries can be had for— I, I had John Sculley on the show and he's doing some work in that area, the former Apple CEO. Of course, smartphones can be had around the world for under $20, you know. And, and a connected world is a, is a, a world of growth and opportunity and education and prosperity, ultimately. At least I think so. I think that's one of the best things the UN could have ever done for the human race, is just just global free Wi-Fi. But it looks like we're gonna leave that up to Facebook and Google to do instead with their balloons, right?

Well, if only the countries would let them, because as you know, there was a big scandal in the UN around that— or not in the UN, but in India and countries like that— because Facebook and Google have wanted to do projects to give free connectivity and internet access, but the governments have been very reluctant. Reluctant to allow that for a whole host of self-interested regulatory and corporate sorts of reasons. But I'm with you. The cheaper we make connectivity, the more we empower people to find jobs, to move, to find out prices in markets, to exchange currencies digitally with less corruption. There are unbelievable benefits just to spreading low-cost mobile phones. So I would obviously like to see a lot of that continue.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so talk to us, uh, if you would, just quickly about some of the other areas you cover in the book. I mean, your, your table of contents is pretty extensive, of course. What else do you want listeners to know about this?

Well, you know, there's so much that we've talked around the economics and the geopolitical. There's also a lot around human mobility. I mean, this is ultimately the story of connectivity, is the 60,000-year story of people migrating out of Africa and wandering across across the continents, building infrastructure to connect to each other and urbanizing. So this book really talks about the two big irreversible megatrends of humanity. One is urbanization. We're all moving into cities. Most of the world's population lives in cities. And the other is this infrastructural connectivity. So we are becoming a global urban network civilization and that has enormous potential for our economic models, for our growth, but it's the movement of people that's ultimately the most fundamental story. And one of the things I point out is that there are more expatriates, more people living outside their country of origin or nationality than ever before. So, you know, there are 9 million Americans, for example, who live overseas. I'm one of them, right? So I'm an expat. That's more American expats than ever before. In total, there's an estimated estimated 300 million people who live outside their country of origin, which is absolutely staggering.

That is, that is totally staggering. And, you know, another part of that that's kind of interesting is, uh, I was just reading the other day about— and of course this is only for a certain small set of people because I undoubtedly will be expensive— but about the new rocket test that was successful that can, you know, put people anywhere in the world in a couple hours. I mean, that's just the advances in transportation, uh, are right around the corner. Of course, those won't be as dramatic as the virtual transportation, if you will, and being connected through virtual reality. And yeah, you know, all the stuff going on with Oculus Rift. I mean, Facebook wants to basically make online social media like being there in person. And I mean, this has got to just bode so well for peace and prosperity and progress because people will exchange ideas. They will become friends. You don't want to go to war with your vendors, your customers, or your friends, right?

And so, yeah, it's true. And, and on Facebook, the number of international friends that, uh, that, that the average person has has increased by about 30-35% in just the last couple of years. So we're certainly more connected to each other across boundaries, and we don't even have to be able to afford to physically cross those boundaries to build relationships with each other. All of that is very positive. You know, I'll point out though, in the 19th century when the telegraph was invented, people also said that this would, you know, ultimately forestall conflict because we would have this real-time, almost real-time communications capability. So it's not just about communications, it's also about the alignment of interests, and that's where it gets back to the vendor, the customer, the investments that we have with each other, the supply chains that connect us. So it also goes back to when it comes to aligning interests, just having less competition for resources. So I mentioned oil earlier. Because we have reached peak oil demand rather than peak oil supply, we don't have to worry about conflict over oil. But we have to make sure that we leverage our technologies to develop resources, you know, to create renewable power, to have more potable water and fresh water supply, all of these things, so that there's less need to fight over the things that we've traditionally been fighting over.

Yeah, that's true. All those people in the '70s were so wrong.

That's exactly right. That's exactly what I point out in the book. You know, we made all of these predictions about a world that would be totally overpopulated and resource-constrained. And yes, we should not sugarcoat these things. We have serious serious deficiencies in terms of the distribution of these resources, but that's where the investment in connectivity comes in, in transmitting and moving these resources around to the people that need them.

Yeah. You know, I got to ask you just one interesting thing. In Chapter 9, you talk about the new Iron Age, and one area that particularly interests me is North Korea, the hermit nation. I mean, it's just, that's a fascinating place to me. I want to visit, but I'm scared, so I probably won't. But, you know, North Korea, an iron silk road through the hermit.

What does that mean? [Speaker:JOSHUA MACHT] Right. So we think of North Korea as being a place that's completely isolated, and it is probably the most closed-off, you know, country in the world. However, even despite that, there is a growing degree of connectivity that you can see there. You can see that more people have mobile phones. They now have actually mobile data as well. There's more internet access in the country. They're building special economic zones so that their, you know, what passes for factories can build various simple manufactured goods. In fact, China is outsourcing some very low-wage labor to North Korea. There's interest in building ski resorts there, and then I even write about a railway project that would connect Russia to South Korea, but of course you can't get from Russia to South Korea over land without passing through North Korea. And North Korea has, you know, I just listed 10 ways in which this country is not completely isolated and closed off, and people don't think about those things. And gradually what is happening, I hope, is that the country is becoming more integrated, because more integrated countries tend to be more peaceful countries. For all the reasons we were talking about earlier. So the best strategy for us is not to just isolate countries and hope they'll change, whether it's Iran or North Korea, but instead to engage them.

Oh yeah, no, I agree. And you know, listen, I'm no Obama fan, but I'll tell you, one of the good things I think he did— yeah, he's done several— is just lessen the tensions with Cuba. I've been to Cuba before, and I tell you, if you want to battle and beat communism and you want to beat dictatorship, send a bunch of wealthy Westerners in there on vacation, and believe me, something will happen eventually. There will be a revolution, there will be an opening. Yeah, you just can't— it just blows my mind how a country like North Korea can be so isolationist. It's literally mind-boggling. But even like you said, there are some There are some signs there. I've had Jim Rogers on the show a few times, and, and he says that North Korea is gonna, gonna open or, or fall. I, I can't remember which he actually predicted. And he says it'll become the most interesting place in the world over the next couple of decades, that, you know, that region.

So I don't know. Well, there's a lot more interest having been there. There's a, there's a lot more interesting places in the world, but what's symbolically important is that it really is the last frozen country. And after North Korea thaws commercially and hopefully politically, although right now it's thawing commercially but not politically. But once that happens, you really will have a completely, not fully integrated world, but certainly a connected world. And places that get connected, you know, have a hard time rolling back the clock, if you will. It certainly happened without a doubt, but countries and societies see the benefits of connectivity and they tend to want to keep them and stick with them.

Yeah, I agree. They just have to see that, no question. Just in closing, I read an interesting article, uh, years ago, and I used to share it at some of my live seminars and events, and I've talked about it on the podcast over the years. It was by Michael Milken and Jeremy Siegel, and it talked about this looming— it was really a fascinating take— this looming asset shortage in the world with, with so many people coming out of poverty and consuming assets. And we've certainly seen this around the globe with protein consumption and resource consumption for like construction materials and so forth. I wonder— and, and these people don't have to rise too much. If they just go to, you know, poverty to like low middle class, it's a tremendous difference in the wealth of the planet and the consumption of resources. Some would say global globalization has already lifted about 300 million people out of poverty.

Oh, a lot more than that.

Yeah. Well, yeah. Tell, tell me, what's your number on that, by the way?

Go ahead. Well, it's, it's honestly, it's hard to say for sure, but if you're talking about poverty reduction, you know, then it's, it's at least a billion people who have been lifted from extreme poverty in, in, in the last, uh, generation.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. No, no, it's, it's just, it's just amazing how the world is changing. And I I sort of wonder for investors, if an asset shortage is looming like Milken and Siegel said, I thought that was just a fascinating article. I wish I could find it. I think it was in Businessweek a long time ago or something.

They're absolutely right again about what I said earlier about lifting the floor. I mean, we have a situation in the world economy and in many countries where it's very plutocratic. The top 1% or 10% representing most of the consumption and asset ownership. But if we were to spread asset ownership and increase disposable income, think about it right now. The world GDP is about $85 or so trillion, and the world population is nearing 8 billion people. So we have only about, I think, $10,000, right, per person in the world. That's not a lot of money. That's actually going around. That's not a lot of cash in pocket, if you will. And that applies here to Americans, and it's in other countries as well. So we would be better off empowering, um, you know, the, the bottom 10-20%, both globally and domestically, um, to enjoy a bit more freedom, if you will, uh, to, to save, to consume, to invest.

Yeah, really interesting topic, fascinating discussion. Tell people Tell people where they can find you and website, maybe Twitter handle, and of course the book is in all the usual places, Amazon, etc.

Yes, the book is everywhere. You can read more about it at paragkhanna.com, P-A-R-A-G-K-H-A-N-N-A. Twitter is @paragkhanna. And yes, all the bookstores and Amazon and so forth for Connectography.

Fantastic, and that's Mapping the Future of Global Civilization. Specialization, connectography. Parag, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you, my pleasure.

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I like how he teaches you how to protect the equity in your home before it disappears and how to outsource your debt obligations to the government.

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To get your Creating Wealth Encyclopedia Book 1, complete with over 20 hours of audio, go to JasonHartman.com/store.

If you want to be able to sit back and collect checks every month just like a banker, Jason's Creating Wealth Encyclopedia series is for you. This show is produced by the Hartman Media Company, all rights reserved. For distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www.hartmanmedia.com or email media@hartmanmedia.com. Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own, and the host is acting on behalf of HartmanMedia.com exclusively.