251: Client Case Study, 7 Properties with More on the Way with Andrew Freitas

Welcome to the Heroic Investing Show. As first responders, we risk our lives every day. Our financial security is under attack. Our pensions are in a state of emergency. A single on duty incident can alter or erase our earning potential instantly and forever. We are the heroes of society. We are self reliant and we need to take care of our own financial future. The Heroic Investing show is our toolkit of business and investing tactics on our mission to financial freedom. Hey, we always get great feedback from you whenever we do client case studies and so we really appreciate volunteers like our guest today, Andrew Freitas, who's with us. He's got seven properties. He lives in Vancouver, Washington and has been working with one of our investment counselors. And really just a pleasure to have him on the show. Andrew, welcome. How are you?

I'm quite well. Thank you so much for having me, Jason.

Good. It's good to have you. So, you know, maybe we'll start at kind of the beginning. First off, what attracted you to real estate investing?

I've always kind of known that real estate would be something that I would want to some vehicle to pursue, you know, for income. My parents told me they even owned a business when I was growing up, a little coffee shop. And they told me that even with that, for 15 years or so, the only money they ever made was actually owning their own houses and having them appreciate and then selling them and moving somewhere else. And they were very lucky in their life of some good appreciating markets that they happened moving into at the time. Then they had a rental property for a while and they were of the old style of letting the property pay itself off, you know, and just have it be free and clear. And I mean it worked well for them, works fine. And again, that's the money in their life that they've made. Even though they've worked really hard and been diligent workers, their actual income or wealth has been because of real estate. And so I was never really afraid of real estate as a thing. My brother also has in this area, remodeled houses. He's bought his own places and remodeled them, flipped them and done the work himself and also done some buy and hold stuff. So I knew real estate. I was never afraid of real estate as a thing. You know, it was never like it didn't feel like a risk to me as a concept, as a vehicle for wealth. So yeah, that's kind of how I as a child or as a kid even was not afraid of it.

Good stuff. You know, just to mention something on that you talked about Your parents and the business they owned and you know, how really the money they made was on real estate. And you made me think of something. A friend of mine who was. Had a. Had a very wealthy parents, he said to me something interesting. And you know, I'm not really a fan of commercial real estate mostly I think housing is really the key. You know, single family homes being my favorite. Apartments being my second favorite. Mobile home, parks also good. But housing, right. Not office space or retail so much. You can make money in anything. But I just think the housing assets the best. I said to him, you know, how'd your dad get so successful? You know, what's his secret sauce in business? And he said, you know, interestingly, he didn't really make his money from the businesses. He just made his money from all the real estate the businesses occupied.

I thought that was interesting. You know, the business kind of just becomes the tenant, right. And it pays the mortgage, but it's really the properties that made the money. And then, you know, they purchased a whole bunch of houses and did stuff outside the businesses directly too. So I thought that was sort of an interesting aside. Yeah.

And my parents never owned the commercial properties that their coffee shops were in. You know, that was never probably even in their thoughts at the time, you know, but they sort certainly the home they lived in, it was nice, you know, and again, that's, as you talk about, that's kind of the icing on the cake. And for them it just happened. They just luck of the draw. Year after year they kept getting in the right markets. What can I say?

Yeah. And you live near the place where they pretty much invented coffee in America.

So, yeah, quite a lot up here. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Good stuff. When did you discover the Creating wealth podcast?

I lived over in Sweden for about seven years. My wife is from Sweden. And 2009, I was painting my roof. They're metal roofs over there. You got to. Sometimes you got to paint them. And I was a do it yourselfer kind of a guy. So I was up on my roof scraping off paint and paint. I had downloaded or had ripped some. Some CDs that I had had of real estate investing prior to this onto an MP3 player. And it was 2009 and my. My friend had just gotten the first iPhone in the States and he sent me his ipod touch. So I like had this new cool device that I don't even know if it was available in my town in Sweden, you know, up in the north of Sweden. And so I kind of got in. Oh, podcasts you know, itunes and all that kind of stuff. And so I was looking for something else to listen to, you know, real estate. I was listening to the real estate thing and I was like, so I discovered you through a searching on the whatever it is. ITunes store whatever it is now, you know, the podcast. And just. Yeah, I had heard a couple of different ones, and you were talking about. Just resonated with me and so that.

Was the first one.

Yeah. I don't even know what number of episodes you were back in 2009, but I think it was probably still in the double digits, maybe in the low one hundreds by then.

Yeah, in 2009. I don't know either offhand, but. But we have a lot more episodes now. So you discovered us about 12 years ago. How long did you listen to the podcast before reaching out and becoming a client?

Yeah, so I kind of did off and on. Kind of had some periods of time where I just wasn't listening to anything. I was doing hunker down, nose to the grind, doing my own stuff. And I think 2013 was when I attended Meet the Masters, and it was in Irvine. And if I'm just being transparent, I thought it was a cool event, but I don't know, maybe I just wasn't ready for it. I kind of knew that was still the vehicle. The concepts you were talking about. So certainly resonated with me. I thought platinum properties, Jason Armand, I thought that was the way to go, but I was like, I just. I'm not quite ready yet. You know, maybe that was just a risk thing. I was nervous about jumping in the pool. Who knows? But 2013 was my first, like, event with you, and I enjoyed it. You know, it was nice getting out of the gloomy Pacific Northwest in January as well, and get down.

Coming down to Southern California.

Yeah, for sure, that wasn't a bad thing. But then in 2000, I think 2016. Yeah, December of 16 is when I bought my first property through you all, and that was my first investment property. And then, like, I bought 1 in 17, then 1 in 18, and then I had cashed out a retirement plan because I was working for the local county here, and I had some sort of vested retirement plan kind of thing. And I was like, this is ridiculous. They decided to, like, protect people and start choosing what investments you could and couldn't do and taking a portion of your investments and making it less risky. And I'm like, I just want to go all in. You know, I'm not a conservative investor in that way. You know, if it's going to be something that I don't have control over or something I can't touch or whatever, I want to just, you know, go full bore and as much as possible. And so I was kind of disappointed with that. So I decided to cash it out and take the hit on the taxes and hit on the. On the withdrawal penalty.

So. So that was a retirement plan now, you know, taking it on the withdrawal penalty, paying the tax. In hindsight, was that a good decision?

Oh, geez. Yes.

Okay.

Yeah, of course. Yeah.

So you made more on the income properties through our network than you lost on paying that tax and penalty.

Yeah. And that's because of the stuff that you talk about a lot. Yes, there was cash on cash. That was great. But there was also depreciation, writing stuff off your taxes. So, I mean, the overall return on investment has been phenomenal. I probably should have done it earlier, but it was what it was. Yeah. So I bought, like I said, about 1 in 16, 1 in 17, and then because I cashed that out, I bought about one in 18, and I cashed out the very beginning of 19. And I bought. Yes. Of 19 and about three properties in 2019. And then last year, I didn't buy any properties. And then I just closed on my seventh one in January. Just this January.

Fantastic. And you were kind enough to do a surprise testimonial video for us. We sent out a link where people could give us a review. What I loved about yours is you were standing in, I guess, like an office room in your home, and you had all of our property tracker performers on your wall behind you of your properties. I just, I just love that, you.

Know, I think it's. It's good to, for me anyway, to have visual reminders of things like that. You know, it's really important to say, you know, this. Yes. This is, you know, a goal of mine. I need to, like, present this in front of me.

And.

Yeah, it's been kind of fun, you know, to have that visual reminder and. And, you know, even though I'm not, I wouldn't say super far along in my real estate journey by any means. It's fun to kind of see that wall slowly grow, you know.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. More posters on the wall mean more income for you, right?

Yeah. Means close to the goal.

Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. Andrew, tell us a little bit about what you do for a living, if you care to share it. We talked off air about it and I thought it was fascinating.

Yeah. So I'm a Nurse. I actually got my nursing license over in Sweden initially, even though I'm from the Pacific Northwest here, and now I work in a psychiatric hospital here in the greater Portland metropolitan area. Yeah, I really love it. You know, it's fun to work with people and to help people, and, you know, sometimes it's exhausting mental work. You know, working with people always is, but it's. It's really rewarding. And I think the team that I work with certainly makes it so much better. You know, it's people you work with really make or break, you know, the work that you do.

Sure, sure, they do. What I didn't know, which you mentioned, is, is your facility is an emergency psychiatric facility. I sort of never even considered there was such a thing. But given going on in the world the past year, maybe can you share some things with our listeners? Of course. Not confidential things, but just in general what's happening to people out there.

Yeah, as you know, I mean, it's been a very, very rough year for most people in the United States and many people around the world, of course, too. And folks who would normally be able to check in with their therapist or psychiatrist or whatever it would be along the way have been bumped into the zoom world. And that's very hard sometimes to not have that human contact and very hard to not. It's just a different relation. You know, a relationship is very different over the web than it is in person. And I think a lot of people kind of fell off, you know, a pathway they were already on that was kind of a support structure for them and got into the zoom world, and it just begins falling apart for them. And when the, you know, mental health starts falling apart for them, the rest of their world starts falling apart. And so I think a lot of. We've seen a lot of that. I think over the last year, folks who otherwise would never probably need a psychiatric emergency department seek help and service because they're in crisis.

How about, like, I mean, you deal with sadly, you know, suicide attempts and things like that. Have you seen? Maybe just anecdotally, because I know empirically there has been an increase given what's going. But anecdotally, like, what have you seen? What can you tell us?

That's a good question. I don't know that I have, honestly. You know, I mean, again, we've been to psychiatric hospital there. I've been working there almost three years. And so that's always been a daily part of the work, you know, so I haven't really noticed there being like oh, someday I don't deal with somebody who's suicidal. And some days I do. You know, every single day there's somebody I'm working with who is struggling with thoughts of suicide. And that's just. I'm glad the hospital's there for them, you know, what can I say?

Sure, sure. Here's kind of a superstitious aside, and I don't know if you have anything to say about this, but you just me think of it. For years I've heard about these possible wives tales about the moon cycle. Right. And I'm just curious, do people talk about that in your profession?

You know, the classic, like, lunar issues and. Yeah, you know, the classic, like, you know, the sun, the moon's out. That's the lunatic. Right, that, you know.

Oh, that's where the word comes from. I never thought.

Yeah, totally. I don't know, I mean, it's funny when. When there is an odd day, people say, oh, it's a full moon, you know, so that there's. I don't know if it's superstitious, but there's. It's ironic and it's funny and sometimes it does seem to line up with that. But, you know, again, we. We have days that are less crisis than other days, it feels like. And they're not always lining up at the lunar cycle that I'm aware of.

We've all heard those things that, you know, emergency rooms fill up on full moon nights and DUIs increase and all this kind of stuff. So I just was kind of wondering. I thought I'd just ask that as an aside.

I haven't noticed that, Jason. Yeah, but it's entirely possible.

Yeah. Yeah. In terms estate, where are your properties?

So the first one I bought was in Montgomery, Alabama, and that was again back in 16. I think you guys were in that market really briefly, and then it just didn't quite work out. The relationship with the provider over there was kind of fell apart.

Yeah, we didn't like that provider too much, but, you know, we've had some bumps in the road. I hope you weren't one of them. So, you know, some have worked out fine.

As Sarah said, I got in and I got a good one, so that was great. So I had my first one there. And then you all were no longer in that market or recommending that market just because the, you know, whatever the relationship, the inventory, whatever wasn't there. And so I moved down to Jackson, Mississippi for the next five properties. Yeah, down there. And those are primarily in Jackson. And one of Them is in Clinton, which is just a suburb of Jackson. And that's, that's probably been my best, my best property has been that Clinton, Mississippi property. It's been really good. And then the last one I bought here in January was back in Montgomery. I figured I'd start trying to maximize my relationship with the management company there. And so, yeah, I want to get, you know, a few more at least. And Montgomery before I moved to a third market.

Right, great. So you're in two markets now then, right? Yeah. Good, good stuff. And so your first one was five years ago. Now you're up to seven properties. Share some of the experiences or, you know, lessons learned, good things, bad things, whatever you want to share. And, and also I always want to ask, are there any tools you're using? You know, whether it be software or ideas or contractors or just, you know, anything like that without giving out necessarily names?

Yeah, totally understood. Yeah. You know, I, I've tried to let the professionals that I'm recommended by or to, to be the professionals. So I, you know, I work a lot, I work a lot of hours, I put a lot of overtime. So my ability to really engage in the day to day kind of stuff has really been limited and I don't have a desire to do that yet either. You know, I have a desire to really let the management companies kind of run those pieces and just monitor the management companies, you know, and if things don't look right on the page, I ask a lot of questions, you know. So for me, I don't want to be more engaged right now in day to day stuff properties. Someday I will. But at this point I'm working a lot right now. I'm enjoying the work that I'm doing and my focus is on the work that I'm doing. And I'll let my business be the business, but let the professionals be the professionals and do that part for me. And it's been an okay thing, you know, it's not been perfect like anything. Like you always say too, it's not a perfect thing, but it's certainly better than everything else. And it has been so far. Some of this stuff, you know, in that first Montgomery house that I bought back in 16, that one had two kind of bad tenants in a row. That's always tough. You know, thankfully, like I'd mentioned kind of before, I've always been just convinced that real estate was the vehicle anyway, so it didn't like derail me at all. I didn't get, I mean, it got discouraged. I mean, who Wants to pay out money rather than receive money. But it didn't derail my. My plans at all. And I knew that. I knew that was a part of the business at times, too. And unfortunately I hit that kind of in the first year of a couple. Couple rough tenants who just. And they didn't destroy the place, but they left it very dirty and filled with junk. And, you know, there's costs involved in that term, you know, and that wasn't very fun because the profits were shot for the year. But still, it's been a good ride so far. One of the things that I didn't. You mentioned this too. Being able. Paying attention to the management companies, that was one of the things that. And that particular property that I'm mentioning there went over to a national company for management after the particular company that I originally bought it from and had managing it transferred all of their properties over this national company as well. I just went along for the ride on that one. And that was dumb. That shouldn't have happened for me because they didn't actually even have an office in Montgomery. And so how can you pay attention to a property or that if you're not even geographically located there? So that was. That was a little rough. And I think I got a little burned on that one, but learned a lesson, you know, and then got a local company there. That's been. Been great so far. I've enjoyed it. Yeah, they've been really on top of it.

So are you, you know, really looking at your property management statements every month, and it sounds like you're holding the managers to account if something doesn't look right, if, you know, you're concerned that you're paying for stuff you don't need to pay for or, you know, costs are too high. Right?

Yeah, I mean, I don't know about. Costs are too high because I don't know enough yet in those markets what things cost, you know, like for doing stuff on my own home here in Washington, you know, I do a lot of my own construction work. I do a lot of my own repairs and those kind of things. So for me, things are, you know, the cost of materials and a little bit of my time. So I don't really know what the market costs are for a lot of things, just to be honest with you. But it's interesting, you know, with real estate, you don't a lot of times know if something's happening until after it happens and you get the statement at the end of the month and you're kind of like, oh, you Know, I'm having a conversation after the fact, which isn't always the best time to have a conversation. But you don't always know about the information or the situation in the moment that it's happening. There's been a couple times where, like, a larger expense is coming up and, you know, on, you know, right away, you know, the management company lets, you know right away, hey, there's something that's going on here that we need to have sussed out and see what the repairs are going to be. But for the most part, it's been. Yeah, it hasn't been too bad. Sometimes I'll say, like, oh, somebody didn't pay. And I'll call the management company and like, what's going on? You know, tell me about this. You know, what have your action steps been since, you know, this has been going on for a month, you know, rather than like, oh, what are we going to do now? Because their job is to know in the moment and to be responding to things in the moment.

Yeah. You know, the thing I always have noticed, and I say, is that, you know, even when you have an expense, that's a surprise, or, you know, a manager who's a little too liberal on the spending money. Right. You know, it's still better than those Wall street investments where you just don't know what's going on. I mean, here you notice it, but there, you know, you just get your return at the end of the deal or along the way. Right. And you look at your stock portfolio and you have no control over what they're spending. You have no control over whether, like intel, for example, just got nailed with, I think, a $2.1 billion patent infringement lawsuit or something like that. I just read about that. And, you know, that affects all the shareholders. You know, if you own stock in Wells Fargo and they got like a scandal every week there, you know, and they're getting fined by the government, they're paying these giant fines to the sec. You know, it doesn't really affect, at least not very much, the executives. It affects the shareholders. They pay bill for that stuff. Right.

The regular. The regular person on the street.

So unfair. Yeah.

You know, one of the other things, too, is aside from being just, you know, a frivolous expense that nothing's done on, if there's an expense, you're still improving your property. So it's almost like the money is still going back into the investment, which even though it doesn't feel good, like I said earlier, to pay money, it's much better to receive money than it is to pay it. But it's still, there's some comfort in knowing that the money's going into your investment rather than just loss, which it is in the Wall street side.

That's a good point. Few people think of it that way. So when you get an expense, at least you're not paying for the executives and their private jets and you're not paying for corruption necessarily. Sometimes you might, but you got to watch that, obviously. But the ability for a property manager to be corrupt is dramatically lower than it is for a CEO or a fund manager to be corrupt. Right.

I would expect so. I mean, again, the degrees of separation are much farther with the Wall street scenario where I'm a phone call away from my management person.

Yeah, absolutely. Interesting, interesting. Any other experiences or tools you want to share? Anything people can learn from any tool.

I've just noticed, like my first house that I bought in Montgomery, Alabama was. It was probably a C class property. Right. I know you've talked about try to away from the C class properties and get into the B class and the A class properties. Just a lot less work, a lot less trouble, you know, better tenants, all that kind of stuff. And it's true. You know, I can't say that it's not true. I probably was a little excited back in 2016 about the Pro forma and the, you know, the starry eyed gains of cash on cash, you know, so every one of my properties, interestingly enough, every one of my properties has been increasingly more and more expensive as I've gone along. So the first property I bought.

In other words, you're buying more expensive properties.

Correct? Correct. Right Now.

Now is that, is that due to the appreciation that's been happening or are you buying, are you up leveling the quality of your properties?

I think it's just been up leveling the quality, honestly. Yeah, you know, there's been definitely the last year particularly has been an incredible amount of appreciation. But I've only bought one property, you know, but again, the first one I bought was like 68,500. Right. And rents were 825, which is phenomenal. It was great. And when they're paying, it's great. Right. That's a, that's a phenomenal cash flow. But again, the level of tenant can be one who, you know, leaves without paying and causes a more expensive turn, shall we say. But the last property I just bought was like $131,900. So still a relatively inexpensive property.

Yeah, that's, that's really inexpensive.

And that's again, that's in Montgomery as well. Montgomery. Not sure what the cash flow is.

Going to be on that one.

Probably really close to $200, maybe just a hair over $200 with all the, you know, incidental. And, but still, that's, I mean, I can't get that on Wall street consistently year after year after year. There's no way, you know, there's no way. Maybe, maybe in a boom year. Right. But there's no way I can do that.

And that boom can retrace and go backwards very quickly on Wall Street.

It can sneak real quick.

Yeah. With the real estate, it's just not that volatile, you know, so that's a lot better.

Yeah, so. So it's been good. You know, I, and I think I remember one of your guys who lives in Augustine who's kind of a provider of newer construction out there. I can't remember his name is the surfer guy. He talked a lot about that too, when at the Meat Masters, I think in 2018 or 2017. I went to both of those as well. Well, and he was talking, he was one of the speakers and he was talking about how he went from a lot of properties that many of them were lower quality, lower price to consolidating to fewer properties that were much more valuable properties still cash flowing, still, still a great investment. But I remember him talking about that transition that really resonated with me, just with my brief experience in the, in the C class property kind of game. I thought, yeah, well, getting up to the B class makes a lot of sense. Sense. So, yeah, B class properties.

I agree. And you know, I think the thing I want to just say about that, again, so everybody knows, is, look, you can make money in anything. Okay. You can make money in F class properties or A class properties. Right. But we find that for the tolerance of most of our clientele is that they, they like the better properties. They just have better experiences with them on the whole. There are certainly those out there who are kind of the bargain hunters that want those el cheapo properties. They've got great numbers on paper and if they pay more attention to them, they can work, they can do great with them. But by and large, the A and B class properties tend to work out better for at least for our people, we find.

Yeah, I've done a little bit of the camera, all of it right now, but I think they're pretty close to each other. Pretty neck the B class properties and the C class properties right now. But again, I think I Went into real estate investing already knowing that it was the vehicle I wanted to do. So the difficulties that a C class present is not something that I was like, afraid of. You know, I wasn't like, I wasn't worried about the tenant who's going to trash my property. I just, I was never afraid of that. I don't mean that in a bad way. Just I was always exposed to real estate, you know, from. From a younger age, too. So there was no hindrance or barrier for me to get into real estate and to be worried about those properties. And I'll be honest, you know, I talk with a lot of folks too, at work. You know, a lot of nurses who are in the place where they could probably. They have some expendable cash. They could probably get into real estate investing too, if they want to, and certainly promote this style of investing. I enjoy it and it makes a lot of sense to me and it's been well for me. I always tell them too, that, yeah, there's risk, but the people that work with, the people on your team that I've worked with you, Sarah, the folks that I've connected with, at the meetings that you have, the events that you have, conferences, and all the management companies and that too, everybody is a professional. Sometimes management companies don't do a good enough job. And you decide if you want to stick with them and hope they get better or change that. But. But it's not like I'm working with a bunch of people who don't know what they're doing.

Right.

That's what's so comforting. You know what I mean? It's like going in with novices. You're like, ugh. You know, but going with somebody who's been doing it for a long time and understands the questions to ask. It just takes so much for me, the risk also away, you know, just dealing with people who. This is what they do all day long. You know, the mortgage people, the buyer's broker in the market, you know, all of those things. They're just all professionals. They know what they're doing.

Yeah, thank you for that, by the way. That's a compliment to us, obviously. And, you know, I'll tell you, Andrew, that's the reason I got into this business back in 2003, 2004. It's because I tried to do this myself and it was so difficult. I mean, you know, I had been in traditional real estate all my life up until that point, and then I tried to become a nationwide investor. I couldn't get return phone Calls. I was flying around the country, I was meeting with people who didn't know anything about investing. A lot of them were just, just a bunch of schlocks, frankly, you know, or worse. They could be just really sleazy and unethical too. I thought, we have the greatest investment of all and yet there is no easy system to take advantage of it for people. I thought, there's got to be a business here. So I basically became my own first customer and created the business out of that. So it was out of necessity. You know, that's, that's kind of what, what, what entrepreneurs do, you know, they, they notice a need and a hole in the marketplace and, and then they fill it, you know, so. Yeah, I know what you mean.

They have a vision for it. Yeah, they have a vision for it and they, and they make it happen. So that's great.

Yeah, totally understand what you're saying there.

Because I've always been kind of a nuts and bolts kind of a guy. So, like, you know, you have people who envision this. Oh, there's a problem. I see this, this. I envision a solution for this problem. You know, I've always been the one who said, okay, tell me what your solution is. Let me make it happen. You know, I've always been kind of like that guy. I'm just not a visionary thinker. And that's. It is what it is, but definitely it. Rubber meets the road, how's that going to get done? That's pretty much what I. And so again, having your system already in place was perfect for me. You know, I don't need to envision a new pathway. I say, oh, that makes great. That's, that's a great pathway. Let's, let's just make that happen.

Yeah. Fantastic. Fantastic. Hey, I'm curious, where in, in Sweden did you live?

So I was two years down in Stockholm when my wife and I, we lived down there for two years. And then when we were going to have our son, we moved up to the north of Sweden. It's Piteo, Sweden, which is pretty far north overall. Not quite as far north as where you were in the ice hotel, which I visited before. Right. Yeah.

That was such a neat trip.

Yeah, it's pretty, pretty amazing up there, honestly. Yeah. So about five hour drive south of that, which is still very far up, you know, probably about an hour and a half drive south of the Arctic Circle, roughly.

Wow.

There for about five years. Yeah.

That's amazing. Yeah.

I shoveled a lot of snow in my life.

Yeah. Yeah. I Couldn't do that, but, but for some it works. Good stuff. Well, anything else you want to say to wrap it up? Do you have any questions about any of the, you know, the techniques that we teach or any, anything that like that you want to talk through real quick?

Yeah, I didn't, I hadn't really thought about the questions side of things, to be honest with you. Yeah, I don't think I have a whole lot of questions right now. Again, you know, when I have questions, I just reach out to Sarah or somebody at the team and usually they know exactly what I'm talking about and can answer it really quickly. So.

Good stuff.

Yeah. One of the things I did mention though, I think that would be. That was kind of cool, was that the whole business that you have, there's a referral business. It's a business that, you know, connects, you know, buyers and sellers and that. And I just remember one time Sarah, my investment counselor, told me not to invest in a particular property that I thought was very interesting. To me, she's like, yeah, just matching you up with that particular seller wouldn't be a good idea. They don't match your style. And that was interesting and I was glad that she gave me that feedback. And she was right, you know, but you know, as an investor, you don't, you don't have a relationship with the seller, you know, ahead of time, which is what you guys also do too. So that was just kind of an interesting aside to all of this too. You know, steering you in the right direction, but also steering you away from the wrong direction, which was very helpful.

Yeah, that's great to hear. And you know, I certainly take a long term view of business and I hope all of our team members always do. We really don't, we don't hire sales people, you know, we hire counselors who really take a long term view and want to make sure clients have good experiences. They hopefully are always doing the right thing for them. And you know, we, we just did a survey and I can't wait to read all. We do an annual survey and I can't wait to read all the results. I skimmed over some of them yesterday and, and they all looked pretty good, so I filled mine out.

Jason, you did?

Okay, good. Well, I look forward to seeing yours too. Good stuff.

It's in there. Some good stuff.

Well, Andrew, thank you so much for sharing your story with us on behalf of all the listeners because everybody really appreciates these client case studies and we appreciate your business and just want to wish you a very happy investing journey. And again, thanks for coming on the show and sharing your experiences.

Yeah, thanks. I hope in some small way this encourages other folks who haven't gone this route to jump in because it's been great. Thank you so much.

It will. Thanks again.

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