514 FBF: Cannabis Therapeutics & Reform of Marijuana Laws with Clint Werner

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It's my pleasure to welcome Clint Warner to the show. He is the author of Marijuana Gateway to Health. And you know, I think this subject in our culture is largely under discussed, so I wanted to do a show on it. And my grandmother was affected with Alzheimer's, very severe and eventually died from it. And I thought we'd hear about some of the benefits. I can't imagine she would ever touch this stuff. But Clint, tell us about your book and what some of the health benefits are.

Well, the amazing thing is many of us have known or heard about the palliative effects of marijuana for vomiting from chemotherapy and nausea, and also for treatment of glaucoma. But the science is really very new in terms of cannabis and cannabinoids. And no one really knew until the late 90s or early part of this new century that we even had what's called an endocannabinoid system and that we produce chemicals that are cannabinoids in our bodies which regulate our health. Almost every system of our health is affected by these cannabinoids.

So a cannabinoid Is that something found in marijuana?

Well, the plant also, which is the really miraculous thing about this plant is it produces phytocannabinoids, plant cannabinoids that are very, very similar in molecular structure to the cannabinoids that our bodies produce. And that is the reason why marijuana has such a broad range of therapeutic effects and preventive effects, even on so many illnesses. Because these molecules from the plant, they supplement the activity, the pro health activity of our own naturally produced endocannabinoids from our bodies.

And so. Well, gosh, I mean, where do I go here? There's so much to talk about. Let's maybe back off from the health benefits for a moment here and let's talk about why does marijuana have such a bad name, for example? Why can't you get the word out about this kind of stuff better? What is the suppression going on and why is it so interesting? I mean, you know, I've often heard people say, Clint, they compare it to alcohol. And some people say, well, the alcohol industry just has a better lobby and that's why we don't have legalization. So let's talk about some of that. And you're an activist for normal, I guess, and that's the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. I'm reading your bio here. Let's talk a little bit about that side of it, if we could.

Well, what's fascinating, you know, Jason, you mentioned your grandmother, and depending on how old she was, it's possible that in her youth she used cannabis medicines, marijuana medicines, because there were tinctures and pills and, and extracts that were available until the late 30s, early 40s as standard remedies. They were called Indian hemp preparations or cannabis preparations. And then there was this whole reefer madness campaign which took the name marijuana and used that, which was a term of affection from Mexican culture because it was a plant that was really appreciated as a folk medicine and also as a euphoric agent. And they demonized it. And they just put the full power of the federal government behind demonizing this plant and the use of it. And then through the 40s and 50s, they linked it up with heroin and cocaine in the broad terms of dope, the category of dope. And it really wasn't until the 60s when a large population began to experiment with marijuana again. It moved into sort of the mainstream middle class youth, the white youth. And it intersected. The youth affected a broad enough population that it intersected with some people who were seriously ill. And they found that it worked for them. And that's how we've sort of had this renaissance of medical marijuana. Because people found out that the Reefer Madness campaign was really a pack of lies and not based in science, but in superstition and bigotry.

So why, why was it demonized? I mean, why was. If there were products using various extracts and so forth up until I think you said the 40s. And my grandmother was born in 1912. I think she was 96 when she passed away. So where'd the demonization come from?

It started in the 30s with Harry Anslinger. It's really interesting. What really looks to have happened is that as prohibition was. Was repealed, there was a huge population, a huge group of federal agents who didn't have jobs, the revenuers. And so they targeted cannabis. And Randolph Hearst, who had the chain of papers, a chain of newspapers throughout our country. He conducted the Reefer Madness hysteria campaign about youth who were using marijuana or axe murdering their parents. And it was making white women go out and have sexual relations with black men. And it was just this whole horrible campaign that just drummed it into people that this was only something that degenerates and lowlifes would use and that it's really harmful and will just wreck you physically and morally. And on and on they kept on and hammered it and hammered it. And the American Medical association was bullied into compliance and they ceased their resistance to it. They initially had was. They protested the criminalization of these remedies, but the Narcotics Bureau bullied them into compliance. And we ended up with this really sad state of affairs where this incredible therapeutic plant has just been blockaded from use by humanity.

Well, that's quite an interesting history. I never knew this stuff, what you've shared here. So basically the genesis of it is the government trying to expand their power and bureaucracy and keep themselves employed, basically. That sounds like the start, right?

Right. It was a make work effort in.

A sense, as it is with so many things in government. And that thus my. One of my many reasons for my disdain for government. But what's kind of interesting about it is that if you look at government and laws and so forth, really the government outlaws anything that changes one state except alcohol. I mean, I guess you could say nicotine and caffeine change your state and other things do too, to a lesser degree. But alcohol's the main one that can really induce massive state changes. But everything that changes your state is illegal except alcohol and nicotine. Right, right.

And I think caffeine is a good point because I really find that cannabis, marijuana's effects are much more similar to caffeine than to alcohol because alcohol is so thoroughly impairing and you just don't find that with marijuana. I've gone to a lot of cannabis festivals and there are people there who are ingesting very large amounts of marijuana and hashish and you don't see people staggering around. No one's falling into anyone's setup, no one's picking a fight, no one's throwing up in the corner. So to me, it is more of a mood altering effect, more like caffeine instead of. Caffeine's a stimulant and cannabis is a little bit more of a relaxant and a thought provoking agent. Although there are some strains of cannabis that have some type of stimulant effect sort of motivating, which most people don't know, but there's some that can get you up and moving.

Well, don't we have to though, Clint, to talk about this honestly, don't we have to make the distinction between marijuana of the olden days, you know, where it got so popular in the 60s and so forth, and the 70s, and then marijuana today that is far more powerful and maybe that additional power is more dangerous?

Well, not physiologically or organically, because the compounds, if you have more cannabinoids, you're just getting more of the beneficial compounds. And there was a study with rats and mice that found that the more they ingested orally, the less cancer they got and the longer they lived and they really dosed those rats and mice up. So the issue with potency is that in the 60s and 70s, most of the cannabis was imported from Colombia or Mexico and it was grown outside en masse, and it was seeded. There was some really exceptionally strong marijuana available, if you knew the right people from Hawaii or Thailand and what people did. You know, it's funny, they say that marijuana makes people amotivated, not really motivated to engage in life and accomplish things. But the marijuana growers and aficionados took the plant and they really managed to, through selective breeding, to take those best plants available, optimize the conditions in which they're grown in, take them from sort of plantations to more boutique cultivation and just really optimize what they have. So you do have. The government wants to make it sound like there's some sort of Frankenweed out there that's really dangerous. It's just that people have taken the strongest cannabis available and made it far more available to a broader range of people.

So what did they do how did it get more powerful? Did they just learn how to grow it? Was it genetically modified? I mean, what, what. How come it got so much more powerful from the 60s and 70s to the modern version of it?

Well, it was produced in Mass in the 60s and 70s in these plantations down south in South America, Central America, and it was seeded. So when it's seeded, you have less volume of potency because you've got the seeds, which you can't really use other than to cultivate or to eat. But that's another story. So what the hippies did, essentially, you couldn't really grow that type. There's strains of two forms of marijuana. There's sativa and indica. Sativa needs a tropical environment, and it matures very slowly and it doesn't produce a whole lot of volume. The indica from more mountainous, cooler regions matures much more quickly. The harvest is a shorter time. And so they started hybridizing these plants so that they could grow in North America, because the tropical plants could not grow before the season went bad. But they hybridized, got plants that were really potent that they could harvest here in North America. Then when Ronald Reagan launched his campaign against marijuana production and started a paramilitary assault on outdoor cultivation in Hawaii and Northern California, people went inside. And I think that might be one of the issues that people are experiencing when they have some people who smoked in the 60s and 70s and 80s, try some of the pot today, and they have uncomfortable experiences. And I think some of that's because indoor grown cannabis, it's really strong, but because it's not been exposed to the sun, I find it a little imbalanced. And it's not as smooth, it's not as euphoric, it's a little more insistent in the effects.

You're really a connoisseur. It sounds like if you just change the words around, you're describing a fine wine there.

You know, I rode through the wine country recently and I just looked at all these hills covered with vineyards and grapevines, and I thought, gosh, that should be cannabis.

Oh, my God.

And that was shortly after I had a rather bad burn on my hand. And I have an ointment, Mary Jane's salve, Cannabis infused. And it was hurting up to my elbow. I grabbed a pot that was too close to a burner on the counter, burned a couple of fingers in my thumb, and it was just hurting all the way up to my elbow, went in, slapped on some of the salve because I've heard it's good for burns. The pain stopped 100% within like 15 seconds. No blistering, no redness. It was amazing. And I just said they should have this remedy, this burn remedy in every burn center and every first responder truck vehicle in the nation, if not the world.

Yeah, well, there's all these powers that be that control all of this stuff. But you know, you have to admit though, Clint, I mean, are you recommending that people smoke it? Is that where the health benefits come from? Or do they get it in a pill? I know some cancer patients can get prescriptions and so forth, or pain meds. I think they can get THC pills, I believe.

Yeah, that stuff just does not work the way cannabis does. It's a synthetic version of THC isolated from all the other plant. Well, it's not even isolated. It's taken out of the context, removed completely from the nature of the plant and its supportive components, because there are components in the plant besides THC that work with THC to support its effects. And the synthetic THC just does not have the effects. Now, smoking has problems. The interesting thing is that chronic long term marijuana smokers have been shown to have up to a 37% reduction in the likelihood of developing lung cancer when compared to non smokers.

Well, that's what I was going to ask you about. I mean, it must be bad for your lungs.

Well, the smoke is very similar in some of its harmful gas and particulate matter profiles to that of tobacco. But the interesting thing is that you don't have nicotine, which is an irritating and constricting chemical, but you have thc, which is an anti inflammatory compound which actually expands the airways instead of contracting them. And THC has powerful anti tumor activity. It attacks tumors and prevents them from producing blood vessels to feed themselves. It also triggers what's called apoptosis, which is targeted cell death in tumors. So that's why you see chronic long term marijuana smokers actually having a lower lung cancer risk than people who don't smoke anything. But vaporization is the way to go for patients if you're going to do an inhalation method because it liberates the healing compounds and creates none of the harmful smoke. So you just get the good without having to get over the hurdle of the bad. But there's also tinctures, there are pills, there's sprays that people can administer under the tongue. And that's what the state legalization here in California and Colorado and other states has done. It's permitted this to be taken out of the context of the black market, where you're not going to be able to get a topical salve or a remedy that is low potency and calculated to relieve suffering, but not get you high, or a strain of marijuana that has a low THC and a high cbd, which is another cannabinoid that has no psychoactive effect ratio. So you can get CBD which has anti breast cancer effects, anti epilepsy effects and seems to work against diabetes, but it won't get you high, but you're not going to be able to get that from a street dealer.

Very interesting. See, if it were legal, people would really have access to all these other options. Right, right.

Because I always make the point that closing the dispensaries is just so idiotic and short sighted because the stoners are going to get their weed. It's the cancer patients and the Alzheimer's patients and the people who have chronic pain who have never been part of cannabis culture. High times life, they don't know where to. And you can't get these things unless you go to a dispensary because the dispensaries contract with people who produce these. And it's only when you have a plethora, a large amount of cannabis grown that you can experiment in producing these remedies. We're reviving a whole branch of medicine that was lost back in the 30s.

And what about the people who say, well, they used to put cocaine in Coca Cola. That wasn't good. Right. Just because it was done in the past, up until the, up until the 30s, 40s.

You can use cocaine as a medicine in the United States though, and you cannot use cannabis as a medicine in the United States.

But what is cocaine good for?

I mean, that's a medicine, it's an anesthetic, and it works for numbing especially I think in dental and ocular surgery. And I believe that it actually is a pretty effective migraine remedy. I personally have no interest in cocaine for anything unless it works when I'm at the dentist or God forbid, I had to get eye surgery. But there are medical uses for it and It's a Schedule 2 drug. Whereas cannabis is a Schedule 1 drug that says it has no medical uses and a high risk of abuse.

Tell us about those schedules, if you would. People have probably heard of them. But what's on the schedule and how does it work?

Well, they were developed by John Mitchell, who was Nixon's Attorney general henchman. Because Timothy Leary had the old marijuana tax act thrown out. He was arrested for a joint by federal agents in a customs area when trying to cross into Mexico. And I think he was sentenced to 37 years. And he appealed the sentence because the old tax act that had criminalized marijuana, in other words, it was a federal tax act. If you didn't pay and get a tax stamp for your marijuana, which was not available anyway, sort of a catch 22, then you could be charged with a crime. Well, they found that if he had declared the marijuana and tried to pay the tax, he would be declaring himself guilty of state law in Texas.

So that'd be like a fifth amendment violation, right?

Yeah, Double double jeopardy or whatever. And so would be a criminal.

He's incriminating himself.

Yeah, he would be. To comply with federal law would mean incriminating himself at the state level.

This is why they get. A lot of times they really. What they get the drug dealers for is tax evasion, Right?

Right, frequently. And so that's how they're trying to shut down the dispensaries, actually. So anyway, the old marijuana tax law act was thrown out. Right. In 1969, the summer of Woodstock. So there were no federal laws against marijuana during the period of Woodstock. So they crafted this new approach, which was scheduling, the controlled substance scheduling procedure. And it was not conceived of or implemented by a physician or medical expert. It was a right wing lawyer with a bias against any kind of cannabis or psychedelic use. Heavy bias. So what they did was they put marijuana in Schedule 1, which means it has no medical use and a high threat for abuse, along with heroin and LSD and some other compounds.

That's shocking. I never knew that. I mean, so the government really thinks of marijuana like it does LSD and heroin?

Oh, absolutely. That's how that. Which even.

That's crazy.

It is crazy. And even one of the men who had researched cannabis with the Veterans administration, his name, Dr. Hollister, he said that he found it just insane and absurd. And no medical professional he had spoken to could see any reason for implementing this schedule because it would make a mockery of respect for the government's authority in advising people what substances are harmful. In other words, you have. Methamphetamine was a Schedule 2, but cannabis was Schedule 1. So they were saying that cannabis is more harmful than methamphetamine and cocaine.

That is absolute insanity. I mean, meth has got to be the most dangerous drug in the world. I have heard stories, I have seen documentaries. That is one scary substance.

I mean, it's the fastest road to hell in the drug world by far. And so they did this. And there was a move to challenge this. And to say, well, no, this can't be right. So there was a presidential commission, empaneled Nixon, stacked it with far right ideologues, but they looked at the evidence. And after they looked at the evidence and traveled and really studied marijuana and cannabis, they went to Afghanistan and looked at the hashtag.

Anyway, they came back and they said, our suggestion is that criminalization is far more harmful than use. We recommend legalizing personal use and exchanges of small amounts for no financial gain and continue criminalization of massive cultivation and importation until we can see how this plays out and then maybe try to wrestle with that in the future. And Nixon buried it. He rejected it. So that's how marijuana is still Schedule 1. And let me even give you something that's even more horrifying and shocking. So in the United States, there is a congressional mandate that prevents any research into marijuana's benefits. You cannot conduct research in the United States. You cannot do. Get. Do a study, conduct a study that is designed to show benefits, to assess if marijuana has a benefit.

Are you kidding me? No, they're not. You cannot study the product for benefit, for harm only.

The National Institute on Drug Abuse is the gatekeeper for research grade marijuana and for funding and approval for studies on controlled substances. And their congressional mandate is to only study harm or chemistry.

Well, wait a sec, wait a sec. I think there's a distinction here though. That's if you want to get funding, I mean, the government wants fund your study.

No, I don't want to get material. The only source for marijuana to study is National Institute on Drug Abuse. You have to go through them to get research marijuana.

Okay, but you could buy it from a drug dealer and study it in your own lab though, right?

Because you're not. No, because that's not going to be approved by your human research committee at your supervising institution or any of the state boards or the fda. You have to go through nida. NIDA is the only approved source for research marijuana in the United States.

This is insane. I mean, in a country where we have a First Amendment, freedom of speech, freedom of expression. That is unbelievable.

That is really unbelievable. Dr. Abrams, Donald Abrams, who has researched one of the few people who's done research in human beings with cannabis. He tried twice to do a study to see if it benefited people with AIDS for weight gain, appetite, and it was rejected twice. When he pitched it as a harm assessment study to see if marijuana interfered with AIDS drug absorption and then included secondary values to find benefit. It was sort of a Trojan horse effort that's how you have to try and do it. And no one does it because it's so discouraged and it's so hard to do and there's no funding support. And then some of the major journals have hostility to publishing any research that shows beneficial outcome.

Yeah, you know, I tell you, I had a little bit of concern about doing a show on this, actually. You know, so it's kind of same thing. I want to ask you two questions right now. First of all, what do you say to the gateway drug argument? People say that, gosh, if someone starts smoking pot, they're going to end up doing LSD and heroin and cocaine and meth before you know it. What about that?

Well, there's no scientific support. That's just a myth that has been perpetrated by the government. Studies have shown that marijuana use does not prime rats or mice to use cocaine or heroin. And there's also a quote from my book, I just turned to it. Statistics show that over 40% of Americans have ever used marijuana, while only 1.3% have used heroin. That's a pretty poor conversion rate for a gateway drug. You know, people don't go leap from cannabis, marijuana to heroin. If there is any association of transferring from marijuana use to other drug use, it is from the illegality where someone goes to buy from a dealer and there's a poly drug assortment at the dealers and he's trying to get them, encourage them, oh, you know, you like this weed? Maybe you want to try this? Maybe you want to try it. Look what I got over here. That's the real gateway drug is criminalization.

Well, that's an interesting point because it's the drug dealer trying to expand their product line and upgrade their customer. That's where the conversion occurs. Huh? So, Clint, if the U.S. government is just making it virtually impossible to research health benefits, to do anything schedule one, that's mind boggling to me. I never knew that. What goes on in other countries, I mean, Portugal recently, I guess decriminalized all drugs. I believe, I can't remember, but I remember reading or hearing that somewhere. Talk about what goes on around the world with this, you know, are other countries researching health benefits. Many of them have organizations similar to our fda. What happens elsewhere?

Well, a lot of the research, our government reaches beyond its borders and funds a lot of international research. So it also controls a lot of international research. But fortunately, there are some independent researchers, scientists out there who have decided to really look at this because the indications are so fascinating about what these molecules, these phytocannabinoids do in terms of human biology, how they just fit right into our chemistry and seem to amplify the good and suppress the harm. A lot of the actual molecules, the cannabinoids were first discovered in Israel and they are doing a lot of research in terms of actually finding applications for human use. Their post traumatic stress disorder soldiers, soldiers who are having issues with that are being prescribed marijuana now. And so they've actually embraced it. You can get medical marijuana in the Netherlands, which is interesting because they have the coffee shops, but they also have pharmaceutical grade marijuana available. And a lot of the research that shows benefits is done in Spain, Israel, Italy. That's where a lot of this is done because it's discouraged. And here in the United States, and we can't get it done. It's a shame we're losing. We should be the leaders in this.

Let me take a brief pause. We'll be back in just a minute.

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I've got to say, though, you know, I've been to Amsterdam a couple of times, and my first time there, you know, I'm pretty much a libertarian. I don't like government getting in my way or anybody else's. I mean, we need government, but I think it should be incredibly limited because every time government expands, our freedom diminishes. You know, I saw a good quote recently. The larger the government, the smaller the citizen. And I think that sums it up pretty well. But I remember going to Amsterdam the first time thinking we should legalize at least pot in the US Maybe not other drugs. Those seem pretty dangerous, but. But at least pot should be legalized. And after I was there for. I think I was there for two days. I thought it was kind of scummy. I don't know. I didn't. I sort of didn't have the same view when I came back. Do you have any comments on that? I don't know if you do. Maybe it's just sort of an anecdotal observation.

But yeah, I don't know. I guess that's sort of not my experience. I went there, but, you know, I'm an old hippie.

You do live in San Francisco.

I don't mind patchouli and sweat so much, but people tend to focus on that. That's what you tend to see, I guess. And people associate it because of the brainwashing, that that's what you expect. But I would say for every sort of freaky looking, you know, slacker there is, I would. I think they're probably five achievers who.

Well, yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I know a lot of very successful people who smoke pot. You know, I'm not saying the hippie looking people. I just thought, you know, I saw like condom wrappers in the, in the gutter in the street and syringes laying around. That's what I was referring to when I was talking about Amsterdam. Yeah, I don't know, maybe they cleaned it up. They don't like picking up after their dogs over there either.

They love dogs, but I hate that we have dogs. And I, you know, you gotta pick up.

Yeah, definitely. What's interesting about this is that it sort of seems like it's the government wants to regulate our state of mind. And you know what I was saying earlier, except alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, some other things. I guess it sort of begs the question, what business is it of the government to regulate one's state of mind? I mean, if someone wants to engage in escapism, why does the government have a say in that? I'm not even saying it's necessarily a healthy behavior, but the fact is people do it. Why does the government have a say in that? Just sort of seems wrong to me.

Well, it is wrong in my opinion. I don't think that the government should be able to tell me how I think, what I think and what I express from what I think. But what you mentioned was, what business is it of the government's? And tragically, this is exactly what we're seeing. It is a business of the governments to continue this prohibition of cannabis because it feeds people, fairly compliant, passive people into the prison industrial complex, which is now turning into sort of a make work or an employment agency for private corporations, slave labor for private corporations. And that's a lot of the reason I see the government being resistant to legalization.

The whole prison industrial complex, the billions of dollars that goes into law enforcement and maintaining prisons, and then you have the resistance from the pharmaceutical Industry, which has a lot of power, because if these remedies become widely available, they're far less harmful than any over the counter or prescription drugs, and yet they're far more effective.

Yeah, well, obviously we didn't even really talk about the entrenched interest in the pharmaceutical industry and how they don't want to see alternatives like this that are cheap or basically free from nature. They want to sell these synthetic drugs that have terrible side effects. I've done shows on it. I mean, especially these mental, quote, health unquote drugs.

They're unbelievable.

Oh, my God. I've seen them firsthand.

You take those drugs and they don't work because your body starts to compensate and you know, it's terrible.

Yeah, yeah. Whether it be Adderall, Xanax, Prozac, and those types of drugs, I think those things are extremely dangerous.

Can I just plug a book from my friend Dr. Andrew Weil, spontaneous Happiness, in which he talks about the whole chemistry of happiness and all of. That's a great book.

Good. Good to know. Well, hey, give out your website and tell people where they can get your book.

My website is www.marijuana Gateway to Health. One string of characters. Marijuana GatewayToHealth.com and I'm on Facebook. The book's available through Amazon. It's the Barnes and Noble online nook and Kindle. You can go to your bookstores. Please go to an independent bookstore and buy a book, help them out and order it. That would be great.

Good stuff. And then finally, I just want to ask you, Clint, are there any action steps people can take if they believe what you're saying? Should they donate money to Normal? Should they? How do they get involved? Maybe you talk about this in the book.

You probably do get mad because everyone's being robbed of their legacy of natural health care by keeping this incredible plant, ally of humanity, criminalized. It makes no sense. It is the most promising biologically active plant known to mankind, and we can't utilize it. So you should get mad. You should write very angry letters to your legislators. Call them. Ask them why they don't care about cancer, Alzheimer's and pain patients. We have senators here, Boxer and Feinstein. They're worthless on this. You know, for 96 we passed this and they've done nothing to defend the patients in California who use it. They're completely absent. And we need to start humiliating these people the way that the activists did during the AIDS crisis. Take off the gloves and just get in their faces and really humiliate. Make it hard. Put pressure on these people because they are engaging in criminal activity that is rooted in bigotry and primitivism from last century and they're hurting people.

And what's funny about Boxer and Feinstein is they're liberals.

They say they are.

Well, yeah, it's like the Republicans, the in name only. Maybe there's a Lino, a liberal in name only.

Well, you know, Jason, I've come to the conclusion that I'm a liberal, but I don't know if I'm a Democrat anymore because like you were saying, the government encroachment on freedom, it's unending.

Well, that's the problem. And that's where the two political parties, I think they kind of have to meet because on one end, the liberals like big government and that means there's more influence from the big corporations because they're basically running the government. So Boxer and Feinstein have probably sold out to the pharmaceutical cartel and they're certainly against any of this stuff that you talk about. So that's the problem.

One does wonder how Dianne Feinstein amassed a fortune of 40 to 90 million dollars while working in the Senate.

Yeah, that's a very good question, my friend. Maybe a topic for another show, but that's a very good question. Well, hey Clint, thank you so much. Yeah, this was very interesting talk and keep up your work out there and keep getting the word out there. If nothing else, it's an issue of freedom, if nothing else. Not an issue of health or anything else, but just purely, it is a.

Big issue of health and freedom and people really need to educate themselves. Read my book Marijuana Gateway to Health that has footnotes, justified scientific studies and then argue, make argument.

Good stuff. Well, thanks so much.

Thank you, Jason. I really appreciate it.

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