600: Achieving Your Wildly Important Goals with Only 4 Disciplines with Franklin Covey's Jim Huling

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This is Jason Hartman, your host. Every 10th episode we do something kind.

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Our guest with a special 10th episode show.

And of course on the next episode.

We'Ll be back to our regular programming. Here we go. It's my pleasure to welcome Jim Hewling. He is a managing consultant for Franklin Covey's Four Disciplines of Execut and New York Times best selling, co author of the Four Disciplines of Achieving youg Wildly Important Goals. Now there are two versions of this great book. The first came out in 2012, there's now a new version, but back in 2012 this was the number one best selling business book in America. So if you are interested in getting things done, executing on your important goals, this episode's gonna be great for you. Jim, welcome. How are.

Thank you, Jason. I'm very excited to be with you today. Both because this is one of the best podcasts in the world and also it's a chance to talk about our brand new book. So thanks on both counts.

This is such an important topic. I mean, I don't know about everybody else, but I think I'm speaking for most other people. You know, I feel overwhelmed. It feels like I'm always behind. I can never catch up. Fix me.

And I'm so glad you asked that, you know, because, Jason, you. You asked the question in sort of a personal way, and I. That dilemma really. Well, I have a hundred urgent things that I should be working on all the time and which one to pick. But, you know, you take that challenge to a corporation and you've got it times a thousand, Right? You've got.

That's a good point.

So many strategies, so many things that need to be done, and the survival of the company sometimes hangs in the balance. So I think it's fair to say the challenge of execution applies to everybody, both personally and professionally. And the biggest challenge is the thing you just said. It's not a question of knowing what I should be working on. It's a question of how do I work on one in particular without dancing all the time between one and the other. In other words, what's really important? You know, in the midst of a whole bunch of competing priorities, how do I choose to focus and which one do I want to really do deep work on? That's the challenge facing every leader, but also every individual.

Yeah. Well, Jim, I hope today you're going to say something more than just focus, something like that. Right, let's dig into this. I mean, you've outlined four things. Now, anybody can grasp four things, right? That's not hard. But I assume those four things have, you know, various subparts and things like that. Take us through the four things and also give us a little background on how this came about. I mean, I know there's a need for it, but how do you identify four things?

Yeah, it's a great question, Jason, and I'm going to condense now about 23 years worth of research and experimentation into the time we have available. So forgive me if I go a little fast, but I think it'll be better to cover all of them. So let's just start at the beginning. The thing you said. Please don't tell me. Sorry, Jason. It's actually the first discipline. It's the discipline of focus. Yeah.

Okay.

And if I was going to give everybody really an overview real fast, you can take everything in our book down to four words. The first is the principle of focus. The second is the principle of leverage. Once we know what to focus on, can we figure out a way to work smarter? We don't have enough capacity to work any harder, so can we find a way to be smarter about it? The third is about engagement. In other words, can we not only know what to do and how to do it, but can we get some quality of emotional connection to what we're trying to do. Can we get to the place where we're either excited or we really care about it? And then the last of all is accountability. Can we be accountable to the things we said we were going to do? So, anybody listening to us today, if you can just remember those four words, you've got the recipe. Focus, leverage, engagement, and accountability.

Now, what's interesting is in the table of contents, it isn't spelled out that way. Right. It's the real problem with execution. Right. But the one is focus on the wildly important, then act on the lead measures.

That's right.

Okay. Keep a compelling scorecard. So that's the engagement one that you mentioned, right?

That's right.

And then create a cadence of accountability. I like that.

Yeah, those are the four. And what I said are actually the principles on which the book is based. You know, focus, leverage, engagement, accountability. But the disciplines themselves are exactly as you read them beautifully, my friend. The first one, focus on the wildly important. And I'll confess there's a little hyperbole in that language, I guess, you know, but the idea of it is really quite simple and really practical. It's of all the things that are truly important to me to accomplish. And, Jason, I'm speaking, whether it's as a person or as a leader of a team or a leader of a company, which is the one thing that should get my finest quality of work, level of attention, deepest commitment, what's the wildly important thing? And you know, Jason, I've often said that if you think that sounds easy, it's a pretty good indication you've never done it. You know, just try it in your own life. Don't say it out loud, but in your mind for a moment. If you were going to pick one thing for this year that was truly the most important thing, lots of other things would be important, but they would be secondary to this one thing. Would you be able to answer right here on the air? You don't know. You don't have to. I'm not putting you on the phone.

No, I'll plead that I can't answer the question.

And then imagine if you're a leader of a team or you're a leader of an organization. You have hundreds of these things, and every one of them is shouting at you for attention and investment. This is a terrible metaphor, but it's like having 500 children. Which one do you love the most? Gee, I don't know. They're all wanting me. So picking the wildly important goal is the first discipline, because if we don't have clarity around what's most important, we have this incredible danger that then we're saying, well, okay, everything is priority one. If I can't say one thing is priority one, then I'm by default, if not by admission, saying, you know, everything's priority one. Well, you've heard that before. If everything is priority one, what's really priority one?

Yeah.

Right. The answer in life and in business is nothing. So now imagine that nothing in your life is truly priority one. Nothing gets your finest attention, your deepest commitment, your greatest passion. Nothing. Because you're trying to spread yourself across 100. Priority one. So discipline one, while it sounds simple, is really the key to everything. Narrowing our focus to the thing that really matters most at this time and being willing to leave everything else in a second position, even if it's a close second in a second position where we maintain it. But we're going to give the best we have to this one primary driving obsession that we have that we call the wildly important goal.

Okay, so, Jim, in business, business is an easy example because it's numbers driven, right? Or metrics driven, hopefully. I could say, okay, you know, I want to do $10 million in revenue this year, for example. Okay, is that my wildly important one thing, or is that just the result of a wildly important one thing?

Great question, Jason.

How do we pick this thing?

That's right. And in a very real sense, the $10 million in revenue could be the wildly important goal. But there's one problem with it if it is, and that's that you haven't really narrowed your focus. I mean, you think about it for a moment. In your $10 million organization, the revenue goal actually encompasses every single thing you do. So if you only say that, you're really sort of back to saying, hey, guys, everything's a wildly important goal.

Right?

Because everything we do goes into that 10 million. Now, what would be better would be to say, my wildly important goal for 2021 is an additional $1 million in revenue from this new line of business. And you might even be as specific as saying, from manufacturing organizations in the Southeast region. Can you just feel the precision of that? Narrowing of the focus is what really enables us to produce an extraordinary result. So here's our shorthand phrase that helps my memory, Jason. The less you focus on, the more you achieve. So if you are searching for an extraordinary result in a particular area, discipline one is the way to do that. Get really clear about what that is in the most narrow way you can. That still has enough Definition to let the whole team get involved.

Enough definition to let the whole team get involved. Expand on that, if you would.

Yeah, it's a great point. So, Jason, in your organization, imagine you had five teams that made up your whole organization. If you choose a wildly important goal that only one of those teams can affect, you have the disadvantage of having four out of your five teams sort of standing on the sideline and playing a secondary role, but knowing that they're not really contributing to the thing that you've said is the most important thing of the year. So we talk often about choosing a wildly important goal that has strategic relevance, but also inclusive. Something where everybody who works for you, from the position of greatest responsibility to the position of least responsibility, can still say, my contribution matters. I play a part in this. And when you do that, it has this galvanizing effect of bringing a whole organization together, you know, to say, we're really doing this together. And then when we win, of course, we celebrate together. So it's a powerful idea for not only bringing focus, but for bringing a whole organization of people together.

If you want to give any examples of other companies, you know, you consult, you have testimonials in the book, obviously. Any examples of companies, especially smaller companies, that people can relate to, would feel free to share any examples you have.

Oh, sure, gladly. Do it.

Yeah.

So here's a couple. Just quickly, as you said, we've worked with a lot of people in the hospitality industry, as you. You may have heard or read about. We have over 2,000 hotels around the world using the four disciplines of execution. And when you start out with a team, like a hotel team, you know, they're not sure what the wildly important goal is. Either one person says, I think it should be revenue because, you know, that's what pays all the bills. And another person will, I think it should be profit. And another person might even say, well, what about the satisfaction of the employees and their happiness? But finally, at the end of that discussion, in our hospitality clients, they come back to a single compass that points north, and that's the experience of every guest. So you see how they have to weigh all those options. But in this case, most of them ended up saying, the wildly important goal for us is the experience of our guest. And those that have chosen that and have used the four disciplines have been able to take their guest experience score, or guest satisfaction score, some would call it, to levels they've never even had before. In fact, we have not only the largest hospitality company in the world, but 23 different hospitality companies around the world, all using the four disciplines, all setting records in the guest experience. But here's what's key. What do you think happens to revenue when the guest experience is getting better and better and better?

Well, hopefully that revenue goes up because it means more pricing power. You can charge more, if people are having good experience, is they'll pay extra and you're going to have more referrals, more word of mouth, better reviews online, et cetera. So revenue is going to go up. So just that single. Is that the right focus? That single focus? It's not. I mean, there's so many things running a hotel or hospitality business insanely complicated to deliver that, right? Is it the facilities? Is it opening new facilities or improving the ones you have, or hiring different kind of people, doing a different kind of marketing? I mean, like, who knows? There's so many directions. Right?

Well said. In fact, I don't know if you've ever worked in the hospitality business, but you have command of the terminology.

I've only been a guest and I can imagine how difficult it is.

And so have I. You know, a hotel is like a small city, you know, so it has literally everything. But I love the example that you just gave because, number one, all those competing possibilities, that's what we call the whirlwind. In other words, that's the thousand things that all have to happen just to keep the hotel running. But if I say it well, it will seem obvious. If all we do is attend to all the things that simply keep the hotel running, will we ever do anything extraordinary? The answer is probably not right. So we're really back to that idea. If I try to focus on everything, I really end up focusing on nothing. I just try to survive. Right. And I hate to say it, but I think a lot of people in the world, as they go through their week or their day, are doing just that. They're just trying to get through the day, answering all the urgent requests or challenges or firefights that come their way, and they never really get time to say, hey, over here in this area, let's do something remarkable. Let's take our numbers to a level we've never been. They can't do it because they don't have any capacity left unless they have the discipline to choose it as the wildly important.

You keep reminding me of your heritage, which is Stephen Covey's 7 Habits of Highly Effective people and that quadrant of vital but not urgent. That's pretty much what you're telling us it sounds like, right?

That's Right. And the vital but not urgent is what will kill you. You know, if it's vital and urgent, you get lost in there. But if it's vital and not urgent, meaning in Dr. Covey's language, it's important. You know, it's not urgent, but it's important, that's what we miss. And take it on a personal level as well. Jason, do you know what. What do most organizations cut when they need to reduce expenses?

Marketing.

They cut marketing. They cut investments in internal training or employee appreciation. In other words, what happens if we stop training our employees and investing in them? We'll have a problem tomorrow. Yeah, but in the minds of most executives, we don't have it today. Well, look at what a PO choice that is. So the quadrant you're speaking of, the one where it's important but not urgent, means we only pay attention to it if we have discipline. And honestly, that's what the four disciplines does. And I know my co author, Chris McChesney, or everybody at Frank and Covey would be holding their breath for me to say the four disciplines is certainly a branch of the tree called the seven habits. There's no question habits two and three are really predominant influences. But all seven of them find a home somewhere in the four disciplines. And, you know, we not only say that candidly, we're proud of that, we're proud of that heritage.

Sure. Yeah. Good stuff. Okay, let's go on to the next one.

Okay, so now you know what's most important. You've set a personal goal. You're going to run the marathon this year, or your team's going to reach the highest level of production or customer satisfaction they've ever had. You've done that hard thing, but now you still have a huge gaping question, how are we going to do it? It's one thing to be clear about what. And by the way, Jason, if you're clear about what, you know, you separate yourself from about 80% of the organizations in the world. But as soon as you are clear about what, now you got to answer the question of how well, all right, what are we going to do differently? And this of everything we've done in the last 20 years around the four disciplines, I think this is the breakthrough idea personally, which is not all behaviors are created equal. In other words, actions and behaviors are what create the results that you want. You want to improve customer satisfaction. At some point, that's got to make its way down to the actions or behaviors of the people on your team. Right. So the question is not that we know that part, but what we don't know is which actions, which behaviors, you know. So it's the same principle again. If you just said to your staff in a hotel, hey, everybody, get really busy improving the experience of the guests every minute of every day in every way you can, would that be very successful? Well, of course not. Right. So we really need a way of working smarter rather than harder, and that's Discipline two. Discipline two is called act on the lead measures. Now, if you don't mind three seconds of terminology. The measurement of the goal we refer to as a lagging measure. And the reason for it is very simple. By the time you get it, the performance that created it is in the past.

Right?

So it's a little bit like driving a car by only looking in the rearview mirror. It's important. It really matters. But by the time you have it, you can't really change it. You can only change the future. Discipline 2 is about leading measures. So leading measures are actions or behaviors that take us to the lagging measure. So now if that sounds terminologic, let me make it really plain. If you want a certain outcome, you've got to ask yourself, what do I do to create that outcome? And if your level of specificity, let's say you want to lose weight, you might say, well, I need to eat less and move more, great. But at that level of specificity, almost nobody's going to change their behavior. But if you get to the place where you say, you know, I'm going to limit my calorie intake to 2,000 a day and I'm going to up my exercise to 45 minutes a day, and you tracked that every single day, you would be hitting the leading measures measures of calorie intake and exercise burn, that would lead you to the lagging measure. Well, the same thing happens in a hotel. You want to create a great guest experience in the hotel. You could say, let's start with the first impression. How do we create the most positive first impression with every guest? Well, one of the ways to do that is to create a world class warm and welcoming greeting when a person walks in. Now, can you imagine how simple this is? And a person hearing it for the first time. You haven't done it yet. Thank you, my new friend. But most people just roll their eyes like, seriously? Really? Yeah. And yet is that not a behavior that creates an outcome? In other words, if you walk to my hotel and I'm at the front desk and I'm busy typing something on the computer and I barely look up. And I say, hi, do you have a reservation? I've created one level of first impression which, by the way, is impactful. You know, not in a good way. Not in a good way. Right. But isn't if I stop what I'm doing and I say, hi, welcome to our hotel. It's good to see you again. Can I help you with your reservation and get you into your room quickly as we can. We're so glad you're here. And if I mean that sincerely, I'm not just a robot, Siri, like spitting that back out.

Big difference.

Big difference. Huge, right? So the human element is huge. But what if we in a hotel literally tracked what percentage of our guests yesterday were welcomed in a world class way? What if we knew that and then we said, well, only 70% yesterday got a world class welcome. And we said as a team, hey, guys, let's get that to 80% today. Let's get 80% and next week let's get to 90% of our guests. What if that behavior began to create an outcome which is, gosh, my arrival experience in this hotel is tremendous. It's one of the reasons I love it. And I always come back, you see how we've linked together actions with the outcomes that we want. But not all actions, just the ones that produce the impact.

So is that greeting that you mentioned when you gave the hotel example, is that the lead measure?

That's right. So the percent of guests greeted in a warm and welcoming way is the leading measure that creates a lagging measure of guest satisfaction. Now, it's just one piece of the puzzle. Of course, you know, a world class greeting doesn't guarantee that you have a, at checkout time, you have a happy guest. It doesn't. But it certainly starts the first impression in a powerful way. And if you take that example, just imagine that every. I'm sorry, I've got to go fast. Every. Imagine every team in the hotel. Imagine if the chef in the kitchen has a lead measure increasing the quality of every dish that's prepared. Imagine if the housekeepers have a lead measure of creating cleaner and fresher rooms. Well, every team in every way has got its own behavior focused that's designed to create the outcome of a better guest experience. Then you have one day, 1,000 people working in a hotel all pulling together toward a common outcome. It's a powerful idea.

Very powerful. Now, I am guessing that this ties in with the next item, right? Because this scorecard is going to tie in how you measure this. Tell us about the compelling scorecard sure, sure.

This is really quick. Yeah, this is the engagement part, so you've got it. And thanks for remembering that, by the way. Focus, leverage, engagement, accountability. That's what we're working off of. So if we've done discipline one, we've answered the question of what that's our wildly important goal. If we've implemented discipline two, we've answered the question of how we now know the few behaviors that create the greatest outcome. Now we have to deal with why, if we want the highest level of performance, we can't just say to people, this is what you're supposed to do, and if you don't do it, we'll find people who will. You can't get the highest level of performance from a team if the only thing you're leading with is authority. You've got to add the element of engagement. You've got to find some way as a leader, or if it's back to you having a goal of running a marathon. We've got to find something that makes you want to get up before dawn, put on the sweatpants, and get on the road training for that marathon. What's the element that makes us not only know what to do, but we want to do it? And I have to confess, I still don't think I understand all the depth of this, even after 15 years of working with it. But something magical happens when people are keeping score. And I have to be careful with this. It doesn't mean when the boss is keeping score for them. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about when a team has a score that they feel belongs to them, it's their score. And our biggest breakthrough moment came when we realized the most effective way to have a team of people who cares about a score is to let the team build the scoreboard.

Right. Now, before you go on, Jim, I'm guessing all of this can work in a family as opposed to just a business, Right? So there are other applications. We're talking business. But this is not just confined to the corporate side, is it?

Not at all. Now, I'll confess to you that our book is.

And it could work with an individual. Of course, you gave an individual with a family.

You know, I would want to be. Be sure I said that our book is really oriented toward businesses and teams and leadership. But we get. Jason, we must get at least one message, and if not multiple, every single day for the last 10 years of somebody saying, hey, you guys, I know this may not have been what you intended, but my Child used the four disciplines to increase their grades in school, you know, or my child was facing a challenge, and we used the four disciplines and we built the scoreboard, and here's the result that we had. And if you don't mind, I'll quickly mention that there's a whole branch of the four disciplines that is implemented in a program at Franklin Covey called the Leader in Me, which is really the four disciplines and the seven habits taught in schools all over the world. In fact, a couple of years ago, Jason, I was in Thailand and I happened to be visiting a school building, and unbeknownst to me, I walked past a classroom and I saw a four disciplines logo up on the wall. And I just thought, there's no way this is happening. But it was the Leader in Me program bringing the four disciplines to school. Children in Thailand learning these principles of how to improve their grades. Finish read a certain number of books in a year, have a certain amount of study time. All that, so powerful application on all levels. But this third discipline, I don't want anybody to miss it. It's what gives it juice. It's what gives it life, you know, for you and your marathon. Maybe that's a calendar on the refrigerator. And you put a check mark every day you run, and you put a red X on the days you don't. But that's your score that motivates you because it's visible. And if it's a team, you know, maybe it's a big board hanging on the wall in the place where the team has their regular meetings. And every week we look at that board to see if we're winning or losing or on a digital dashboard. You know, all these forms work so long as the team feels like that's their score, not the boss's score for them. But the team says that's our score, right?

Yeah. So they own it. It's really the ownership issue.

That's right.

You know, it can't be plugged in from the outside. It's like going to a motivational seminar doesn't really work. You got to be motivated from the inside. Right.

Later you're like, yeah, okay, you know, that was a moment. Or it's like a boss. You know, however many people on your team, I presume you can't send them an email tonight. And send, hey, guys, starting tomorrow morning, I'd like all of you to be 47% more engaged in what you do.

Yes, I'm sure that'll go over great.

Oh, man, that's really going to Drive change. Right.

Okay, good. Let's go to the next one.

Okay. The last one is the one that just takes a moment to let it settle. You know, Jason, everybody I meet, when I say accountability, you can just almost see the air go right out of the balloon. You know, I don't know whether we're tired of accountability or we've had bad experiences with accountability, or I don't know whether you have a boss these days. Not. But imagine if you did have a boss and you got an email saying, hey, Jason, come to my office at 3 o'. Clock. We need to have an accountability meeting. You know, you're not going to go, whoo, I can't wait. You know, so the whole word has a lot of baggage attached to it. But in its best sense, what I like to think of it is as faithful in follow through. Let me say really fast what I mean. Everybody that works in any job anywhere, any company of any size, probably has a boss. And that boss, they are accountable to that boss for doing whatever they're supposed to do. And I get that. But what we discovered is that that kind of accountability, which we call vertical accountability, me up to somebody. Is incredibly limited in its ability to drive performance. And I imagine because your podcast is all over the world, there are thousands of business leaders who are listening to this, and they're a little bit confused right now because most organizations just run on accountability. That's how they work. But it's the type of accountability that matters. So instead of only having accountability, that, in my language, is vertical, it's me up to you as my boss. 4 dx creates accountability from one person to another. I think of it as horizontal accountability. And here's the big aha for us. People are far more determined not to let their teammates down than they are not to let their bosses down. I don't know if that goes in the brain easily, but it is. We're at 300,000 teams around the world using our process now. It is a truth we see play out every day. People will stay late, they'll volunteer for extra assignments, they'll do extra work in order not to let their teammates down to help their team. But if the boss asked them to do that very same thing, they would begrudgingly do it or not do it at all. It's a different dynamic.

I know this comparison might sound strange given how hierarchical the military is, but I would actually argue that the reason people are willing to go onto the battlefield and, you know, dodge bullets quite literally, is to not let their team members Down.

Absolutely.

You know, I mean, we did a patrol, whatever you call it, but you.

Know what I mean, that's so Jason. I mean, without any bragging, I just would say to your audience, you know, we have military organizations all over the world, including the United States military, using the four disciplines of execution. In fact, some of the roots of the four disciplines came out of an initial project with the military. But it's a story, perhaps for another day. But the driving force behind that is that I have the back of the person next to me and the person next to me has my back. And that is the inviolate rule of how military organizations are successful. And the more elite they are, the more emphasis they place on this element. Well, all we did in 40x was tap that same thing. You know, we say, jason, every week I will make one or two commitments out loud about what I'm going to do this week to drive the score. But I'm not just making them to my boss. I'm going to make them to everybody on my team standing in a circle out in the hallway. Five minute meeting, Friday mornings, here's what I'll do this week. And then the following week, I'm required to say again out loud, here's what I did, or here's what I didn't do. And that kind of person to person accountability, it changes the nature of the commitment from just being professional to being personal. I might justify to my boss, I might have seven great excuses. You might be a nice boss. You might say, hey, Jim, don't worry about it. But I don't want to try to give those same excuses to my team. I don't want to look at my team and say, hey, I told you guys I would do this, but I didn't do it.

Jim, did you just share the cadence part? Because I want to make sure we touch on that cadence before we wrap up. You said, you know, weekly, make one or two new things. Right? Want to touch on that anymore?

Oh, yeah. You said it really well. I like it. The team meets every single week, and in our vernacular, those meetings last only five to 10 minutes, maybe 20 minutes if it's a large team. But the driving force in those meetings every week is a level of personal accountability that moves the score. So each and every person is saying, here's what I said I would do, and here's what I did. And then they make new commitments for the week to come. And when they don't keep their commitments, they're honest, they're transparent about that. With the team they ask for help when they need it, they get help when they need it. But it's that of we are in this together. And at the end of all that, think about it, Jason. 52 weeks a year, you watch everybody on your team say, I'll do this this week. And then they do it. Your respect grows, your trust grows, your sense that you're part of something that really matters, it grows. Right? You can read all the books in the world about how to build trust, and there are great books in the world. But one of the best ways to build trust is to watch people keeping their commitments week after week after week. You learn to trust by those actions. So it is the best, biggest discipline and the most powerful of all four is this discipline four we're talking about now.

Couldn't agree more. Well, just wrap this all up for us. Give out your website and anything you didn't say or question, I didn't ask.

Thank you. I will confess to you I'm talking about as fast as I'm capable of trying to get everything in. I hope, I hope I got everything in today. I would love to say at the end, the first edition of the four disciplines, incredibly popular book, as you were so kind to Note, have been 16 languages is translated into around the world. And now 10 years later, second edition. I would like for everybody hearing this to know that the second edition, first of all contains 30% new content. And that 30% is really what we've learned in the 10 years since the first book was written. So if you're a lover of the first edition, you need the second edition because now you get to see what we learned in 10 years of applying those.

Share with us just one big one.

I'll tell you one of the biggest ones for me. In the first edition, we were predominantly speaking to people who lead a frontline team, a team of individual contributors. So that in a typical company that might be called a manager or possibly a director, what we didn't speak to explicitly is the role of a leader of leaders, the next level or levels up from that front line, we really honestly gave them no instruction at all. We put all of our energy into the frontline teams and I mean nicely had a lot of success with that, but realized we had missed an entire segment of our audience. So in the second edition, most of that 30% new content is directed toward people who have the unique job of leading leaders, which is a very different job than leading a team. Now we've given them a place, a specific set of practices that will help to drive execution for all the teams they lead. And then, if you don't mind me saying really fast at the end, we have tried to capture. I think this would be worth the whole book, Jason, but obviously I'm hopelessly biased on this subject. The very last chapter of the book is a testament from Kristen, Sean and I of what we call the X factor. It's the missing ingredient. We've tried to capture the intangible characteristics of the greatest leaders we've worked with, and we think we got it. And we think at the end of a whole book on execution, you're going to find a final chapter that's about empathy and about love and about caring about the people who work for you and about having a larger vision of what we're all doing together. It's a surprising chapter to conclude a very tactical and practical book, but we think it's the very thing, it's meant to be, the X factor that separates a good leader from a truly great one. So put all that together. You've got the second edition of the four disciplines of execution.

Fantastic. Share a website or a resource you want to share before.

Thank you. You're very kind to let me do that. There's a really great website. Of course, everybody can find everything@franklincovey.com and that is literally everything that the company produces. So you not only find the four disciplines, but everything else. And particular to the second edition, there's a website called called 4dx. That's 4davidxraybook.com so 4dxbook.com has all kinds of material from the new book. It has some videos of Chris and I and other people talking about their own experiences and even some case studies of organizations, like the questions you've asked today about hotels and hospitals and manufacturing plants and trucking companies that have all used the four disciplines. All of that is at 4 dx.

Box.

Excellent. Well, Jim, thank you so much for sharing this. You know, I can't wait to take a deeper dive into the book now that we've talked. Really just love this material. It's so vitally important and we really appreciate you sharing it today. So thanks much.

Thank you, Jason. It's been an honor.

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