AIPIS 115 – Richard C. Wilson, Doing Business with Family Offices and High Net Worth Investors

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Welcome to the AIPIS show for accredited income property investment specialists and those who desire to be. This is your host, Jason Hartman where we talk about increasing your income, your productivity and just generally having a better life while serving your clients better with America's most historically proven asset class income property. We have a great interview for you today and we will be back with that in less than 60 seconds. It's my pleasure to welcome one of the thought leaders in a space that you may or may not be familiar with, known as the Family Office. Richard C. Wilson is coming to us today from Key Biscayne, Florida. And Richard, welcome. How are you? How are you?

I'm great. Thank you for having me. Jason.

It's good to have you on. So you know, for the listeners who may not know and maybe many of them have heard of this as well, what is a family office?

A family office is really a holistic wealth management, full balance sheet wealth management solution for those individuals that are worth 50 million, 100 million or a billion dollars plus. So in short, it's a way to have a 360 degree control and management system over your money when you have a large enough empire that it's worth paying for that full time dedicated help.

You know, some of the listeners might now be thinking, well my net worth isn't 50 or $100 million. Why does this matter to me? Well, we're going to get to that and you know, so this is something that a wealthy person just decides to set up in order to manage their wealth. Right?

Correct. And to jump a little bit ahead on the why it matters, I can't help myself is that WealthX said that there's 14,600 ultra wealthy individuals globally who are all worth more than $20 million. I think is the statistics they use.

Give us the number of that. How many are there?

14,400 ultra wealthy individuals globally considered 20 million and above. Right. And the number of centimillionaires, Those were the $100 million or more is increasing every day. And people that are all around us. They own the sports teams that you cheer for. They control some of the politicians that you like and don't like. They own the building that you might be sitting in right now while listening to this podcast. So I think that while it sometimes can feel like it's hard to find these people and you might not have many friends worth $100 million, they're all around us and they influence our lives every day. And they can be great capital partners as well.

You say capital partners because they invest in deals, Right. So they're looking to, you know, maybe do what financing, like private, private lending, hard money financing on deals, and also take equity in deals and maybe partner with you on a real estate transaction, for example, Right?

Correct. I help run one single family office. And over the holiday break, you know, we invested in a $36 million note on a building where a large corporate strategic was basically needing to get out from under that note for corporate reasons. And so we took that over as an investment. So it's just one example. But there are so many family offices now globally, that if you look in any niche and people come to one of our family office events and they say, oh, do family offices invest in X or in Y? And the answer is always yes, because there's so many family offices that invest in different things based on how their wealth is created. But later on in the show, I'm sure we'll get to some of those big trends. And where do most family offices invest?

Okay, now I want to make sure that we don't have any, you know, misunderstanding in terms of the language we're using. You said single family office. And a lot of our listeners will think, well, I invest in single family homes. What is a single family office versus Is there another type of family office?

Yes, there's basically three or four terms you'll hear thrown around in the space. Family office is an umbrella term and there's really two major types. There's a multi family office where somebody might have five clients, 10 clients, even 200 clients that are worth 20 million or 50 million each and they're serving it. And it's really like a high end, very holistic wealth management firm. Then that's called a multifamily office. The other important term is single family office. It means you sold your business, you're worth 400 million, you want a full time team dedicated only to you, not serving 10 other clients as well. And that's called a single family office. And a new up and coming term that just people should be aware of if they're really interested in this is the word virtual family office. It just means a very small single family office, perhaps for somebody just worth 50 million or $75 million and not worth, you know, $700 million or a billion dollars for a full fledged single family office.

Suffice it to say that, you know, these words refer to the number of families running the office, if you will, versus the type of investment, whether it be multi family apartment complexes or single family homes. Just want to make sure we get that out of the way. It's a minor distinction. Could lead to some misunderstanding. How many family offices are there in the world or does anybody know? It's probably impossible to actually know that for sure.

Right, right. It's very secretive. There's for sure over 10,000 family offices globally. And the industry is growing so quickly right now that eight to 10 years ago there were zero family offices in China, Indonesia, Malaysia, who explicit held themselves out as family offices. Even in Moscow, when I was there five, six years ago, I wasn't a single one calling themselves a family office. And nowadays there are family offices in all those countries. There's dozens if not hundreds in China that are explicitly identifying themselves as one. And it's important to know that this term is an up and coming term and this industry is really just taking stride and really becoming a more serious space. And the reason I bring that up is that the single family office space alone, I think is going to be bigger than the whole family office industry in another seven or 10 years. So just being aware of this trend, I think is just valuable. And just knowing that this is going to be something you're going to hear about more and more in the mass media, in books and people that you work with.

I mean, this is probably, this concept maybe by under a different name, has probably been around for decades, if not, you know, well over a hundred years. I mean the, the industrialists of the day, the Carnegie's and the Mellons and the Rockefellers, I mean they basically, I'm sure had family offices, right?

That's correct. That's correct. I think that, you know, you could argue for thousands of years and the way that the ancient Chinese used to organize, you know, some of their affairs or the way that a castle was set up to defend, you know, the kingdom, you can argue it goes back thousands of years actually. And I think that the important point is that now a lot of families just had holding companies before in parts of a family office, are really tying into this whole trend of having a more formalized Family office, because there are so many benefits to making sure that you actually have a family charter and governance in place and some of the more formal structures and processes. So it's not just a loose holding company, which doesn't typically mean it's being managed all very holistically or professionally.

When was the term coined? Do you know how far it goes back?

For sure, it goes back at least 40 years. I've seen it written in old articles and books as far back as I believe the 60s and 70s. But I really think that if you look at hedge funds, the word hedge fund, a lot of people in the public eye had no idea what a hedge fund did. Even in the, let's say, early 90s, late 80s, some people in finance knew what a hedge fund was. Then they started being on the COVID of newspapers, sometimes for fraud, sometimes for other reasons.

I love how you point that out.

90S and 2000s, so they didn't always have the best reputation, but at least the public was hearing about these things called hedge funds and seeing them on cnbc. Well, we're in that phase of family offices where most people in finance have at least heard the term and they have a rough idea, but the general public has no idea. I live in Key Biscayne now, which is an ultra wealthy community, but before I was in Oregon and some of my best friends still think I run a business helping people run offices in their private homes when they hear family office, when really it's quite the opposite. It's the people who literally own the office buildings in Manhattan. It's not someone who can't afford a real office space. So I think that we're in that in between space and I think that's part of the adoption of. We're crossing that chasm of the adoption rate, you know, going to the mass public, being aware.

Right, Interesting, interesting. So what do they do? I mean, did this come out of a reaction or, you know, not, not come out of the reaction to it, but maybe the growth of the family office concept. I would almost speculate that it's come out of, you know, the dissatisfaction with all the crooks on Wall Street. Families want to get control of their money. They want to be in, they want to be direct investors, which I highly recommend. You know, they want to, they want to look at deals and be a direct investor in them rather than giving their money to some fund manager who's going to either steal it through their crockery or lose it through their incompetence or just charge huge management fees for Managing it. Would you say that there's some truth to that or am I way out of line?

There's definitely some truth to that. There's definitely some families who specifically set up a family office because they want to do heavy direct investing and they need that team that otherwise would be the team that's living off of those GP management fees inside of a private equity fund. They might hire some of those.

And when you say gp, you mean general partner, right?

The core team at a private equity fund, for example. I think that the reason why family offices exist and the reason why they're growing is because if you're worth $100 million and you make a 1% mistake, taxation wise, you might lose $1 million in that one year from that one mistake. And if you had somebody watching out for you and watching Your back and 360 degree managing your balance sheet, then that might not have happened. And the people who are expected to coordinate between all their advisors are sometimes the people who are the worst position to do so. If you're worth 100 million, you're probably very busy, have equity stakes in many companies or many properties just like you do, Jason, and you should be the last person.

But I'm not worth 100 million yet.

Not yet.

That is my goal, to be a centimillionaire. That's 1 million doll, 100 million and above.

Yeah, we both get there. We can meet up over another interview here in the future.

I can hardly wait. That Gulfstream jet I've been looking at, that'll become a reality.

I think that everybody feels so busy these days. Even if you're not worth 100 million, right? I mean, you have multiple shows, you have clients, you have all these properties you're managing. So you can imagine if it was your responsibility every month to coordinate between your insurance agent, your cpa, your wealth advisor, everyone else is advising investment managers, et cetera. And you are supposed to play the quarterback in that role. It gets overwhelming. Most of us are just trying to keep up with the urgent things. If you make that little mistake, it could cost you a million dollars if you're worth 100 million or more. And so that million dollars could have been spent on two to three full time professionals, some formal infrastructure, maybe you could outsource a few functions. And it's just the mistakes are too costly to make when you become ultra wealthy. So you have to have some structures and people in place watching out for you.

Yeah, that just makes a lot of sense, you know. So tell us, what does this family office look like it, by and large is a physical office where people actually show up to work. Right. Certainly they can be virtual, like you mentioned, but most of them are probably real offices, right?

Right. Most of them are. If you're a billion dollar plus single family office, you always have an office, unless you're brand new and just became wealthy. If you look at $300 million and under family offices, from the benchmark study we've done, we've seen that only 55% of the smaller single family offices have formal, dedicated separate office space away from their operating entities, and only about 50% have someone outside their family running it. When you get to like the $100 million, $200 million level. So it depends on where you are in the world and how large it is. But many times you'll have a CEO at the top who used to be a CPA or used to run an operating business, but then also has an investment manager hat that they could wear because they need to make sure all the trains are leaving the station, hire and fire service providers, negotiate fees, review contracts, work with counterparties, and manage a team. It's almost like you have a small business you're running because you have payroll to meet, you've got to pay your rent, you have utilities, you have service providers, so there are operations to manage. So usually that type of a brain is at the CEO role. And then depending on the portfolio, if the family made all their money in manufacturing widgets, then perhaps your CIO is going to be a former private equity head of acquisitions at a private equity fund that only invested in manufacturing businesses, and you're going to leverage that family's reputation and put down.

Did you really mean to say cio? Chief Information Officer.

Cio Chief Investment Officer.

Oh, investment officer. Okay, got it.

So that's a confusing thing. I know in our world, CIO always means chief investment officer, but I know that it's also used for information officer. But thanks for clarifying that. So basically, that CIO role is critical. Sometimes it's outsourced. And many times families find that if they made their money in an industry, they want to have their hands in that pudding. And they should, because they've created so much value there in the past and they have relationships and they might find that real estate is something they want to do very directly with a little bit of help on their team, or ease into that, maybe starting with a consultant and then doing more things in house. But importantly, most families do typically put a portion also with a multifamily office or private bank or wealth manager to diversify. So you have some different brains inside the portfolio and have some diversification. Even if you are making a big bet back into manufacturing or apartment buildings, et cetera.

I think listeners, as you're listening to this, I think this is a really good model for small investors. You know, you should have this family office mindset, I think for managing your own real estate portfolio where you, you treat it like an actual business, you know, and it doesn't mean you need to have office space and a bunch of highly paid people working for you. But you know, maybe when you're at the point of having, you know, 30 to 50 single family home investments, you know, you think about, well now, you know, I've got this bookkeeper, works for me and when I get to 70 or 100 units, maybe I'm going to have two of them. You know, maybe I'm going to do my management in house and self manage my properties and there's some economies of scale and greater control there. You're going to get your own crew in terms of your own, your own handyman. I mean, you know, this, this same mentality can be applied to much smaller investors. You know, the middle class investor I think should really be listening to this and thinking of it as a conceptual framework for sure.

And I think that you brought up so many things there. I'll try to go through these really quickly so I don't go off on this too long. But I think that you brought up some great points. I'm a big fan of Dan Sullivan and his concept of unique ability.

He's been on the show twice. Yeah, I like Dan Sullivan.

Yeah, great, great. And I think family, you know, single family offices help the patriarch of the family, the person who created the wealth, focus on what they're excellent at, whether that's relationships or finding new investment opportunities or getting a business from 3 million in revenue to 100 million. And the team around them is also helping them focus just on their unique ability. And I think that part of what's really fun about meeting with over a thousand family offices now face to face and helping run a few of them day to day right now is just seeing how these individuals think that got them to 100 million in wealth and what they're doing now to go from 100 million. One of my clients goal is to be a billionaire in 12 years and triple his net worth. So seeing them use strategies like in Verne Harnisch's book Rockefeller Habits.

Love that book. Yeah.

Securing choke points is a critical thing. I take notes on watching these families and trying to adapt it in my own business. I'd say that when it comes to real estate and a strategy that your listeners could use in their own business, I think one strategy that's really interesting is that a lot of them use real estate strategically to add to the credibility and get them more deal flow by positioning them within their local industry or among their peers. So one of the family offices I know based in the Midwest, they bought an old church, renovated it and made that their headquarters. And it's just this magnificent marble white building. And anyone that goes there will never forget going there. Another one of my past clients, how.

Much was that church? I'm curious, do you know what they were?

Over $15 million.

Oh, okay, so it was expensive, right? Not in your world, that's not a big deal. But in our world it is, right?

For sure, it was a historical site and I think there might have been some tax credits related to that. But for sure there's smaller ways to do this. But I think that another client, he bought a whole zip code and made it like a ranch with horses and hunting boats, et cetera. And I think that in trying to adapt that to the individuals listening, I tried to do that in my own life. Moving to Key Biscayne, for example, having a place where our business is visible here in an audience where there's a lot of ultra wealthy around you, joining the local Bentley Rolls Royce association, being part of eo, being part of high quality groups, making sure you have the visibility among the right people. If you're looking for deal flow and single family homes, that's going to be different than commercial buildings, which is different than large apartment complexes. But there's ways to use real estate to not only be a good investment, but if it brings you better quality deal flow, then that extra angle there might more than pay for that whole piece of real estate. I think that a lot of these families think about leverage and choke points and how to make an investment. Manage the downside to the extreme, but also look for those upside opportunities and just don't pull the trigger until something has that combination of both. The very limited downside, but those upside opportunities that you just need the right combination on the roll of the dice and you're going to get lucky based on how you positioned yourself.

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And just to go back to this concept of the smaller family office ideology, every one of our clients now has a family office, in essence, and it's virtual and outsourced. You know, you have a Team. You have your investment counselor, you have your property managers, you have, you know, these various team members, your lenders, et cetera, you know, and that's. That's interesting. It's an interesting concept, for sure. Okay, tell us more about what these family offices are doing out there just so we can, you know, know what's going on in this world and, and how. How listeners might partner with a family office and, and, you know, find them, approach them and say, hey, you know, do you want to finance my deals? Do you want to be an equity partner if I find and bring deals to you, et cetera?

For sure. Okay, yeah. And I do think that everyone has parts of a family office. I think either you really have either chaos, though, or you have, like, you know, somebody playing quarterback for you, and you actually have the family office in place. Manage that, Manages that chaos. But let's talk about that next question now. So, basically, family offices are structured, hopefully always based on exactly what their values and their mission and objectives are. So their team and their investments will look totally different depending on where they created their wealth and what's their goal. Is it cash? Is it protection of capital? Or is it tripling their net worth in the next 10 years? So a lot of families, I would say the 25% of the families that filled out our benchmark study, we had 180 responses. 25% of their portfolio is allocated to real estate. And the most popular piece of real estate investment was apartment buildings. Many times they'll put a normal amount of leverage, 65% on such a thing, but sometimes it's bought with even less leverage, say 50% or sometimes all cash in other countries I've seen, because I.

Love that they're choosing housing. That's my favorite asset class of all. They're pretty conservative, though, in the old sense of conservative. I think actually using more leverage is being more conservative, honestly. But, you know, that's not the way most people think. I completely understand that because, you know, the bank is taking more of the risk and the investor is taking less. When you're more leveraged, oddly, it's counterintuitive. I know, but they're pretty conservative. I mean, they're putting, you know, 60. They're doing 35% down to 50% down or even all cash, as you mentioned.

Right. And I'd say most common is like, you know, the normal 30 to 40% down. But sometimes families see these apartment buildings as kind of a don't mess it up asset for the next generation. And I embed that within A trust structure or something that helps kind of protect the next generation. And I think that's different than some of their other investments within the real estate space. I would say that self storage office are next on the list. Self storage, for obvious reasons, acts and looks like, you know, apartments to some degree sometimes.

I agree. I like self storage. It's pretty good. Never owned that asset class, but I like it.

And I think hospitality hotels has kind of a sexiness to it, being able to point to it and say, oh yeah, we own this hotel or we own that hotel.

It's like the rich person with a restaurant. You know, it's got that social component and ego aspect to it.

Yeah, right.

Interesting, for sure.

And I can relate to it. You know, it's easier to relate to than an industrial property or just for some families, even leasing out a major office building and negotiating those complex leases. So I think that the investments are varied when it comes to real estate, but some families have up to 60, 70% in real estate. And I would say the more that you, if you're listening to this in Eastern Europe or Asia, I would say that 70 to 80% of all net worth of single family offices there is based in commercial real estate and real estate assets. Some of them have huge concentration in that area. And that's how it's been done there for many generations. And many times it's only family members running their family offices and they don't tell anybody how much they're worth. They give 20 million to JP Morgan, 40 to Goldman. They manage a couple hundred million themselves. And if you don't have the blood of the family in you, then you don't know how much the family is worth. And they're very, very private. In the US there's a spectrum of privacy that changes. And I think that's just important for people to know. If you're listening on, on working with families as counterparties and I think your next question was on basically how to raise capital from them or just work with them.

Yeah, absolutely. I just have one question though, before you go on with that, and that's an important part. When you say there's a different spectrum of Privacy in the U.S. are you saying that the U.S. family Office is less concerned about privacy because it's not as dangerous to be wealthy in the US I think it's a safer place, right?

That's correct. Yeah. In Malaysia, somebody might enact new regulations just to take your business away or give it to somebody in a ruling party in another country, or if you're in Brazil, you might get kidnapped or someone, your family might be murdered from it or just corrupt officials might come to you in Venezuela or Colombia and you might have to pay off four or five new people just because someone heard about you in the newspaper.

Listeners. That's why the US is the Brinks truck. It still is with all its problems. It's still a great place. You know, it's a much safer place to be rich. You can, you can flaunt your wealth here and you don't have to worry too much about being kidnapped or, you know, I mean, you'll have politicians try to, you know, like the communist Bernie Sanders or Barack Obama try and, you know, take away your wealth. But it's pretty hard for them to.

Do it right, for sure. And I think that the great thing about being here in the US and one of the reasons I moved to the greater Miami area is that the number one place for the ultra wealthy Chinese to move is the United States. And we have more billionaires just in New York City than the whole country of Canada. And we have more billionaires in the US than anywhere else in the world. And the wealthier the world gets, the more that they choose to send their kids to Harvard and Wharton and Yale and Stanford and the more that they choose to buy secure real estate like here in Key Biscayne. Lots of people come here and buy a house in cash. Why? Because in Brazil, inflation is 9.75% here, real estate goes up 15% a year. Even if real estate went down 5% a year here and you add that on to US inflation, you're still doing better than if you held onto your money in Brazil, especially given their bad economy, but inflation is so bad there, they just plunked down the cash here and they want to have some assets that are in U.S. denominated dollars and U.S. type inflation and U.S. value growth. And I think that just that with EB5 and this being in a safe place to have a family office and be able to find family office talent are really driving the whole industry towards major cities in the United States.

I would assume that family office clients, and we still need to get to that question before we wrap up about how do you approach them, partner with them, etc. But I would assume that family offices, because of their wealth, that they generally gravitate toward kind of trophy properties, you know, that are in higher end areas with, you know, some ego component to it a lot of times and things like that. Would, would that be true? I mean they're, they're probably not buying up tons of cash flow properties in Memphis, for example, which is a market we like, or Atlanta or you know, some of the major Texas cities. They're probably like Manhattan, New York, South Florida, Boston, whatever, you know. Right.

Well, Boston families love Boston. Same with Memphis. The number of ultra wealthy individuals in your city is typically somewhat correlated with the actual size of the city and how trumped up the prices are there. But in every city you've got the local ultra wealthy that are kind of dominating the space. And I'd say that some families are surprisingly thrifty. At one of our conferences, a billion dollar plus single family office said that for whatever reason, because they created their wealth through being thrifty and watching value, that the patriarch would actually go and wash out a large Ziploc bag so he could use it a second time with another type of food in their kitchen. So extreme things that don't logically make sense, but that's how they defended their wealth on the way up. And I think that there's definitely a spectrum. Again, just like with anything when there's a thousand plus family offices in a single city like New York, there's going to be a spectrum. But there are some families that are distressed focused and right now that are being just a little bit more defensive. They might be releasing a few assets from their portfolio and only going into distressed assets or tertiary markets or places like Memphis or Atlanta because they don't want to go into the overly bid up. A lot of them are cautious about losing their money. They try to be some of the smarter people in the room and don't want to be like big dumb conglomerates just blindly plowing money into momentum. I think that there is a decent segment that goes after distressed assets, but I think they should more. I think they should. Whenever you can clean up chaos and clean up inefficiency and make it efficient, that's where you create value. That's the only reason my whole business exists in the family office space, because nobody else is writing on it or writing books on it, et cetera, and sort of cleaning up that chaos. And there's a lot of chaos in markets that aren't overly competitive and there's a lot of chaos and kind of run down, debilitated 200 unit apartment complexes are just below an institutional radar. But they're going to take some elbow grease and they're not in a major city like Boston. I think there's a ton of opportunity there.

Yeah, I could totally agree with you. That's what we do we do it mostly in the single family market, but absolutely, yeah.

Great.

So that last question about finding approaching partnering, you know, with family offices.

Right. So basically I think there's traditional ways to work with families and then there's creative ways. The traditional would be you could be a sell side or buy side broker for them. Obviously, if you're a real estate manager on the investment side or a property manager, you could specialize in either serving this market in your local market or trying to serve it nationally. You know, we got reached out to yesterday by a $400 million family that owns seven properties in New York and LA. So they're hiring estate managers in those two cities and they're basically property managers with oversight of the house management and the running of construction, etc. When you think about the traditional ways to work with a high net worth investor, then take that up a step and imagine what that family might need. They want someone who's really going to serve them well. And that means a lower volume business for yourself. But it might mean you have four core clients or seven core clients instead of 30 or 70 or 200. And I think that it's a good space to get into if you can, because once you get started, you get referred and referred on and on. And people always ask me, well, if they work off of referrals and trust, then how the heck do you ever get started? It's like chicken or the egg, right?

You can't get a job without experience and you can't get experience without getting a job. Every young person's dilemma for sure.

And we had a big private bank ask me, how do you hunt down these family offices? And I say, well, basically we don't. If you add value, they'll find you. And in your local community, let's say you are in Atlanta, there is probably an estate management or trust in the state attorney or a Financial Planner Group, CFA Society, etc. And you can go there and provide value on your niche. If it's property management for ultra wealthy families or property management for family offices, or if it's something else, then giving value first is how we've been able to build our referral network and just encourage people to do the same. But another important point of working with families is that they are looking for people who can bring them extraordinary deals. They have the capital in place. They typically even have friends and peers they could get more capital from if they needed to. And so what's important to them is getting into things at a good cost basis that are quote Unquote, off market. And that word's the most bastardized word and abused word and I think in the whole real estate investment space. But they want things that haven't been chopped around and trumped up and they want to get in on things before anyone else has heard that they exist. And if you can be that person to a family, then you have positioned either get a buy side fee over time or be a sponsor who's actually running the show, post close and helping them add value. Post close with the family.

Yeah. Very interesting. You know, that's good old fashioned networking and providing value. You know, there's not a, not a lot of shortcuts to that. You know, it's just you got to work for it like anything else. Good stuff. Richard, give out your website, tell people where they can find out more about you.

Sure. The best place would be to go to familyoffices.com We've got great conferences every quarter. Actually last month we had a 550 person conference and nobody else does this, but we guarantee that everyone loves our event or you get your money back. If you don't like the food, you don't like the speakers. Out of 550 people, we had zero people ask for their money back at this, this last event. So familyoffices.com is where you can check that out. The last two things I mentioned is that we have a database of over 1500 family offices which you can find there as well. And then our book, it's just about free on Kindle or it might be free these days and it's only $7 for the 300 page paperback and it's on Amazon. It's the best selling book in the industry and it's called the Single Family Creating, Operating and Managing Investments of a Single Family Office. And we spent about 700 hours writing that book and we really 100% believe that it can be really valuable to someone looking to get their foot in the door in this niche. It's kind of an extension of this interview. You'll see more statistics and real life interviews with about 30 different family offices in that book.

Very interesting, very interesting. Richard C. Wilson, thank you so much for enlightening our listeners into this very private world that isn't on most people's radar. A really interesting inside look. So thank you very much.

Great. Thanks, Jason. I look forward to having you on our Family Office podcast in the short future.

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Able to sit back and collect checks every month just like a banker. Jason's Creating Wealth Encyclopedia series is for you. This show is produced by the Hartman Media Company. All rights Reserved. For distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www.hartmanmedia.com or email mediahartmanmedia.com Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own and the host is acting on behalf of Platinum Properties Investor Network, Inc. Exclusively.