AIPIS 22 – How To Increase Your Sales

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Welcome to the AIPIS show for accredited income property investment specialists and those who would like to be. This is the program for education for real estate, mortgage and financial professionals. And this is show number two. And today we're going to focus on the sales aspect of your business and we are going to talk with Will Christ from Sandler and we'll talk to him about sales technique and efficiency in selling and service in selling and how you can create more income by honing your sales skills. Here's the interview with Will Crist.

It's my pleasure to welcome Will Christ with Sandler training. Will is a trusted advisor to business owners and entrepreneurs. Helps with company culture, sales skills, personality assessment. I think that'd be a fair statement. Will, welcome.

Thank you. Thank you.

Jason, it's great to have you here. Tell us about what you do.

Well, typically people come to me when they are frustrated because they're not getting the outcomes that they want. You know, their salespeople are not picking up the phone. They're coming and telling them that they can't expect a lot of sales this quarter because, well, you know, market competition, we don't have the right products or they're asking to reduce the price. I don't know if there's anybody out there who ever has issues like that, but that's typically where people come and talk to me about it.

Yeah, definitely. In today's economy and today's commoditized world, I'm sure a lot of our listeners have those kinds of issues. So this is an important segment and I'm glad I got you on the show because I think everybody sells something and even if you're not in business for yourself, I mean we're all in business for ourselves really because we know that there's no such thing as job security security anymore. Certainly not in today's world. We've all got to be, you know, we're selling our ideas, we're selling to our significant other, our kids, or we're selling directly to a customer or a prospect. In the true sales business, what is the Sandler method? I think there's a seven step system you have. Can you tell us about that.

Well, I think the first part of the Sandler method is to change the whole notion of what we mean by selling. I don't know if this is true of your people or how many people out there for whom this is true, but lots of people believe that selling means getting somebody to buy something from me. And so my job is to get them to buy from me. The Sandler methodology turns that on its head. My job is not to get somebody to buy something from. My job is to, first of all, find out what they want, what kind of issues they have, what struggles are there, what would be a reason that they would buy anything. Often we call that pain. A lot of that has to do with what kind of outcome do they want to have. So once I know what their outcome is, then I can pretty quickly figure out whether or not I can help them. And so once we have an outcome, then we help them come up with strategies for how they'll achieve that outcome. And when we're clear about the outcome, clear about where we are right now, then we want to find out what is it that's getting in the way? Is it that I don't know what to say when I walk in? Is it that I mumble around and wind up doing whatever the buyer wants me to do and then walk out not knowing what's going on? Do I come in and throw up and all of my pray and spray? Is what some people do. Do I just come in and make a big presentation and hope that people will buy. So the Sandler methodology begins with figuring out, helping to find out, asking the prospect, what do you want?

And from there we begin to find out what sorts of things we might be able to help.

So sounds like a good modern consultative approach. Would that be a fair statement?

Consultative would be good as long as we understand that there's a system for. For this interview.

Tell us about this system, if you would. If you can drill down on that a little bit and explain what it is, maybe what the steps are. I know you talk a lot about controlling the sales process.

Well, I think the real question is helping the buyer to feel like they're in control while at the same time having a system that helps us guide the conversation to not necessarily a sale, but a decision. Because in our system, no is okay. No is certainly an okay outcome of a sales call.

What is not okay is, let me think it over, let me run it up the flagpole. Let me get back to you next couple of weeks, because we know what that means, right? You know what's that mean to you?

It's not good. It's a blow off. It's a no that they're going to say no.

You know, it's a no. It's a polite way of saying no. I don't want to make you feel bad, so I'll not say no. But I'll do tell you something, and I'm probably not going to follow up on it. So what we want to do is tell the prospect right up front. It's okay to say no. I mean, typically in a conversation like this, a salesperson might say, you're trying to figure out whether or not I can help you. Right? Well, at any time there's something I say or do or you begin to feel something and you don't think that I can help you. We're not the people for you. You can tell me no, right? You can, can't you?

Yeah, sure.

You look like a strong.

You will tell you no.

You will. Good. At the same time, you know why I'm here and what do they say?

I don't know.

Well, if a salesperson were visiting with you and he had asked to come in and speak with you and he said, you know why I'm here? Most people will say, well, yeah, you're here to sell me something.

Oh, okay. I mean, yeah, right.

All right. So I would. The salesman might say, a lot of people think I'm here to sell them something, but can I tell you, I'm really here.

Okay.

I'm here to find out whether or not I can help you fix those problems that you talked to me about, which was the reason you invited me in.

Okay.

Now I don't know that I can. I can't help everybody. And if. If by chance I come back and recognize that I really can't help you solve those problems, is it okay if I tell you no. On the other hand, we might find in the next 30 minutes that we have together that there are some things that we want to work on. There are some things where I believe I can help you and you believe that I can help you. If we do get that far, does it make sense that we would figure out what the next steps are?

Sure.

So could we just plan to take the last five or 10 minutes and figure out what those next steps are?

Okay.

Now we have just taken away a think it over, right?

So take away the think it over early in the appointment. Okay?

Absolutely.

All right.

So I mean, what we want to do mentally is we want that person to be thinking, well, there's Three responses I could make at the end of this sales call. I could say yes, I could say no, or I could think it over. And we want to mentally help them cross out the tio because no is okay. In fact, would you rather have a no than a maybe and I'll think it over?

Probably, because the no saves you time and efficiency. You can move on to the next prospect knowing that that door is closed and not waste time on a no prospect. It's just not going anywhere.

So what the Sandler system is about is not making the sale. The Sandler system is about finding truth. And finding truth means helping people to make a decision either way, good or bad. Either way is fine with me. It's a success when I come out with a no.

Do you ever think though, that sometimes some of those I want to think it over people really do become customers? Oh, sure, yeah.

Let me tell you what I do with salespeople. In fact, I have an associate who's, who's just begun working with us, and he asks that same question. So I asked him to take next to his whiteboard where he records all of his calls and puts his behaviors on the wall. I asked him to get a little pad of yellow. What do you call them? Stick up.

Stick them.

And every time you get a think it over or call me in January, those kind of calls, write the name down, put the date on it, stick it up on the wall.

No, your wall will be full of stuff. That's why we use software.

When they buy from you, you can take it off. And so what we watch is all that wall, all those sticky notes. And what do we see?

It's a good visual representation.

We see a whole wall covered with begin to discover that. That hope, those happy years, that hopa. Hopa. That hopium that we're taking, that's really just shining us on. So why not say to the person, you know, that sounds really good. Why don't I just put you down for a no if it changes? Because no is not never. But let's be honest with each other for right now. It's a no.

Fair enough. So you've isolated, you've moved on. The salesperson is not wasting time with someone who's likely a no customer.

Absolutely.

Okay, good point.

Absolutely.

The seven step process. I kind of wanted to drill down on that one a little bit more. What are the seven steps? I mean, this is a unique process that you guys have developed.

Any encounter with another human being begins with what we call bonding and rapport, building trust. How do you build trust? If I were to ask the, the people listening to sit down, take out an 8.5 by 11 and just write down your system for building trust with another human being, what would that be?

I would say that most of that goes along the line, you know, with an initial person of the NLP type world, which is the matching, mirroring, pacing, leading, that kind of stuff. But if they know you, you know, trust comes from keeping promises, in my opinion, comes from delivering on what you.

Say you'll do, doing what you say.

You'Re going to do, and, you know, going above and beyond what you say you'll do.

And who's it about?

It's about them.

It's all about them. And a lot of people believe that. It's about me shining, it's about me looking good, it's about me being technically perfect, it's about my track record. And the reality is it's about them. It's about what they want to do and what I ask people to do. In fact, we were working on this yesterday in our weekly two hour training with people who come from all over Southern California for training. We were working on bonding and rapport. And I said, you know, it's not a matter of finding things that you have in common. A lot of people think it's about finding something we have in common. Now we have a bond.

Commonality. Doesn't hurt though.

Doesn't hurt. But our goal is to be invited into their space, come into my space, come closer. And that's something that's granted, it's not grabbed. And so how we do that is being interested, asking questions. And we play a little game, throw a ball back, or we stand up and have people ask questions and the first person who answers the question sits down and loses. How long can you keep questions going? How can you keep turning the spotlight back on the prospect, the customer, the person that you're trying to build a relationship with? So that's the first step. Second step is setting the ground rules. You see what happens. You saw what happened at the playoffs, right? No, you didn't see the playoffs. Can you imagine playoffs without a ground rules? It'd be tough, right? So right at the beginning, at the beginning of every game, the coaches for each team come out, meet with the umpires and they talk about what's going to happen, what, what that big green monster means. What's a ball, what happens when the ball hits that, what happens if the ball goes here and they agree on the ground rules. So rather than allow somebody else to set the ground rules. What we ask people to do is come up with an upfront contract.

So what would be an example of that? Upfront contract or those ground rules for.

I really appreciate you inviting me in. Thanks for inviting me in. Do we still have the hour?

Sure.

That's wonderful. Now, you know, busy person. How are we going to deal with interruptions? I mean, I'm turning my cell phone off.

Right. Okay.

Can we go to the. Can we go to the conference room.

Now? You probably saw in your calendar that I was coming, and you. So you probably had some ideas about what you wanted to talk about. Could you tell me a little bit about that? And we asked the prospect to tell me what's on their mind. We might use an NLP pacing. I mean, fast forward question. Like, let's suppose that I'm walking out of here and you're shaking my hand saying, will, I really am glad that you came because you helped me a lot. What would we have covered so we get a clear picture of what's on that prospect's mind? The next is, what's my agenda? And my agenda is always to ask questions. So I would ask, you know, Jason, I'm going to need to ask a lot of questions. Some of them might make you a little uncomfortable. Is that okay?

Sure.

All right. And then our outcome statement. Typically in a conversation like this, you've heard it before. Typically in a conversation like this, you're trying to figure out whether or not I can help you. Right?

Right.

And if for any reason you decide I can't, you can tell me. No. You will, won't you?

Yes.

And at the same time, you know why I'm here and out of role. Now what I do is I have moved from being a salesperson to being at least a friend and maybe even an advisor by saying, my job is not to sell you something. My job is to help figure out whether or not I can help you. And then we also set up like we talked about. We set up an outcome. By the end of the meeting, we will decide either this is not a fit, which is okay, or it is a fit, or we want to have a clear next step. And then the last step is my biggest fear, and I might share that with somebody. If the last three times somebody had tried to shop my suggestions to them gone out to other people, I might say, you know, my biggest fear is, you're going to take what we do here and go talk to three or four other people. Is that going to happen? And I get it out on the table. And I deal with that immediately.

So you, as the salesperson says that to the client. If there's a bomb, if the salesperson tells the client what their biggest fear is, that they'll shop them.

That's what I say as a salesperson.

Oh, that's interesting.

If there's a bomb. Our rule is if there's a bomb, get it on the table and explode it. Right now. When do we start talking about price?

At the end.

At the end, when it's way too late, after they've gotten all of our stuff, after we've told them how we're going to fix the problem, when should we be talking about price?

Up front?

Up front. When should we talk about schedule and time and all of these things? And if there's an issue, that's when we do it is my biggest fear. All right, so once we do that and we got a clear picture of what their issues are, then we want to talk to them, ask them about their pain. So, you know, we ask them a series of questions to help them move from a not clear, ambiguous disease to a very clear picture of what the pain is, what they're trying to do to fix it, how that's worked, what that's cost to the company and how they feel about it. And then finally, are they committed to making a change? And if they're not able to answer those questions, if it's not cost the company anything, there's no pain here, there's no sale, no reason to move forward.

And the reason they're going to move forward has a lot to do with how that the decision maker feels about his inability to make that change. And then finally, are you committed to making a change or just think it's just going to happy with where it is right now? That's step three.

That's step three.

Step three is pain.

Okay, so it's rapport building, bonding and.

Rapport is 1, 2 is the upfront contract, 3 is pain.

Discover the pain. You could say it that way.

Right.

Okay, that's great. So step four.

Well, step four is what we said is get money up front. So now in doing explode the bomb. Well, we're going to find out what, not what my price is. We want to find out what based upon the pain. Right? The pain has a cost associated with it. So if I could fix these things, it would bring in this much more money to the company or because I haven't been able to fix these things, it's cost the company this much. Now that's going to Be a fairly large number. That's going to be a lot more than I'm going to even think about charging somebody. Fair enough. Sure. So their budget has to be larger than my cost. And how am I going to find out their budget?

Well, you're asking them about the pain. What will it cost them, the problem they're having, or.

That's how we. That's how we begin to get there. But we have to ask them. So what have you set aside, Mr. Prospect? What have you set aside to fix this? They probably haven't.

I would assume most, you know, most people, they haven't really put a number on that.

That's right. That's right. So you begin to help them Bracket. I don't want. Exactly. But are we talking about $100,000? You're talking about 20,015. What are we talking about?

Okay.

Budget is not just money. It's also time. How much time do you have that you can either put your people. What kind of resources do you have? What kind of time are we going to be spending to fix this? What can I depend upon you in doing this? So getting all those pieces out there so we have resources, time and money, and we can't move forward without having some clear picture of that. That's step four. Okay, next step is, how do you. How in your company do you tend to make decisions like this, Mr. Prospect?

So if there are other decision makers.

Are there other decision makers? How do you tend to make decisions in this company? Are you the decision maker and what do they generally say?

Well, I don't know what they generally say.

I'm the decision maker.

Sort of an ego.

And you don't need any help. You don't need any help at all. And that begins to soften them up and helps them to understand that they really are going to be talking to other people. In which case, before I made my presentation, who would I want to have in the room?

All the decision makers.

So that would be what I'd be doing. How do we get all those people into the room?

Right.

And once we identify those people are. Before I talk to you about the solution, which I promised back in the upfront contract. Right. Because after the upfront contract, we have three steps of qualification, pain, budget, decision. And without any one of those three, we're not going to move forward. If you have no pain, if you have no budget or you can't make a decision, is there any reason for me to make a presentation? No, we call that free consulting.

Sure.

Right, Right. So after I have Those three. And I'm convinced that they qualify for a presentation, for a solution. Then I'm going to ask something like.

This is what we call the ultimate contract. I'm going to ask something like, so, Jason, if you believed, after I make my presentation next week where we're going to have the six people who are going to make decisions about it, if all of you believe that I can fix your problems within your budget, what happens next?

So the prospect there is saying, okay, well, we do it, we buy it.

But not right away.

I don't know, maybe they are, maybe they aren't.

Well, but that's what, that's what I need to find out.

Okay, that would be how I'm smoking.

Out the time frame decision. Okay, absolutely. Well, yes, we'd buy it right away.

Right.

Well, that's my contract. Then I walk into the room. I walk into the room with that agreement that if at the end they're convinced, not that I could convince them, but if they're convinced that I can fix those problems within their budget, which means my price always has to be less than their budget.

Right.

They're going to make a decision. And that's all I'm really asking them to do, not to necessarily buy, they'll say, yes, we'll buy. What I want to come away with is a decision one way or the other. And most often that decision by this time is going to be a yes if it's within my budget. So the next step, step number six, is making the presentation.

Hey, before we go into the number six and seven steps, I want to just diverge for a moment. Can you make any distinctions for. For us, Will, between business to business sales and business to consumer sales? And even if you want to add a third tier to that, I'll call it interpersonal sales in the sense that we're not really selling something, we're just trying to get someone to buy into our thinking, whether it be, you know, your wife or your kids or whatever it is. You know, kind of three things there. Business to business, business to consumer, and then, you know, interpersonal sales.

Well, let's suppose, let's suppose you call all of those sales. So my question to you would be, why do people buy anything?

Because they believe it will improve their.

Situation for their own reasons.

Right.

And they believe that it'll take away a pain, give them pleasure.

What's in it for me?

Right. So what would be the first thing that I would want to know from them?

What they're looking for, what their outcome.

Is, what that's right.

Well, we went over that. Yeah.

What do you want? Right. So would it make a difference whether this was a company or consumer or a relationship that I had?

Okay, so same seven steps. Yeah, same thing. And then one other distinction I wanted to ask you about. Any tweaks or differences between small ticket sales and large ticket sales. For example, in a business to business environment where someone may be doing really large ticket sales, you know, multi step implementation plans, payment schedules, or does it really always just come back to the seven basic steps?

I think it comes back to seven basic steps. Now, how you what we do in our ongoing incremental training, which is a step at a time. You're familiar with Jeff Olson and the slight edge, right?

Yes.

All right. And he says it's no big breakthrough. We're not looking for quantum change. Right. So sales training is not quantum change. We don't have one big two day event with a lot of rah rah and expect that that's going to lead to significant change. So our system is small incremental steps over a period of time toward a worthwhile goal.

Inch by inch, anything's a cinch.

That's correct. And so what that means is part of the process is how do I take this system, which David Sandler called the sheet music, and how do I play it on my instrument?

Good analogy.

So that has to do with my marketplace, that has to do with my customers, that has to do with me. And all of those things have lots of variables. So what we want people to do is want people to know, well, you can use NLP terms. We want them to be able to pick up. Is this an auditory, is this a visual, is this a kinesthetic person? We want to know where do they fit on what we call the disc model? Are they dominant, are they, you know, steady relator, are they interactive or are they a calculator? And once I know these things, then I begin to understand what it is they want. How will they be sold to? How will they make a decision to buy or how will they make a decision to do what I want them to do?

We've got a couple more steps left, but here's another little tangent here. Do you think there is any particular type of person that is more or less difficult on that disc profile, for example? And if you want to maybe just explain to the listeners, some may not know what disc is, but are some easier, like if you want to sort of group your prospects, which would be the more difficult ones and the easier ones? Yeah, but first of all, what is disc?

Well, disc is. It comes from Carl Jung's work over the last 50 years. It's been massaged into a very simple short test that can help people discover whether they tend to be dominant and make decisions quickly or whether they are interactive, tend to do a lot of talking, have a lot of fun, whether they're steady relators, going to be there forever support or whether calculators. You tend to find a lot of Ds in CEO decision making positions. You find a lot of I's in sales positions. You know that glad hand, well met person who's got a lot of talking. That smooth talker tends to be an I. The steady relator is people who are going to look out for your needs. There are people who are going to try to figure out what it is that you need, what you want to have happen, and they're going to be there for a long time supporting you. The calculator is a typical CPA bean counter. Person needs a lot of data, a lot of data to make a decision.

So that's the person that I would say is the most difficult customer if I have to pick one. Because I have found, okay, just over the years in sales myself, I have found that a lot of people say, for example, lawyers are tough customers. I don't think lawyers are tough customers at all. I like lawyers. I think they're great. I think the tough customers are engineers. You know, it's not because I've always been a very data based, empirical type of salesperson with a lot of proof and a lot of evidence and a lot of data and charts and you know, whatever you need to know. Right. But engineers just seem to, those people just seem to want to find a reason not to do anything, you know.

Well, they are certainly people who are going to take a long time to make a decision.

And I think a lot of times, I hate to say that's really to their own peril.

Well, absolutely. But let's take a look. Let's take a look. If you looked at the disc configuration, if you had a square and it was divided in four parts, one line down the middle, up and down, one line up and across. On the left upper corner you have a D. On the right lower corner you have an I. On the lower left corner you have an S. In the upper left corner you have a C. Okay. All right. Now we find that I's have very difficult times relating to C's across that angle. Have you thought about what you are?

I'm probably a D or an I or both, I guess.

Yeah. So when you tell me I have great difficulty working with Cs, that's not a surprise. That's not a surprise.

So who. Who finds it easy to work with Cs? Other Cs?

Let me ask you, what kind of personality does the prospect get from the salesperson, from the professional salesperson?

I don't know. Well, they get their own. Maybe they get their own because they're relating. But you just kind of said that commonality wasn't a big rapport thing.

No, I'm not saying what we have in common. Like we've both been to Aruba, Right?

Okay.

All right. What is important is you talked about matching and mirroring. So if I'm matching and mirroring a C, I'm going to listen for what kind of data that person wants. So they're going to get from me the personality that they need to be able to make a decision. Because if I leave that, that conversation without them having made a decision, I've done a disservice. It's not a bad prospect. It's my inability to have a strategy to help them get clear about what they want to do.

Right.

And supply for them what they need. Now, Ds tend to make decisions very quickly. They're very demanding. Cs, like you said, have a lot of need, a lot of data, and they need to figure out a way for them to measure the relative return on investment and how all those things are going to happen. Helping them think through that helps them to get to the place where they can make a decision. So, yes.

The question what kind of personality does a prospect get? Whatever they need.

So the salesperson, to some extent, if they're a real pro, they have to be a bit of a. A change agent. Well, they're a change agent, of course, but they have to be a bit of a chameleon. Is that a fair thing to say or. That sounds kind of negative.

No, it's not. They don't change who they are, but they begin to discover what strategies are going to be helpful. Because David Sandler said something I find very interesting. He said All Sales is a Broadway play written by a psychiatrist.

That's good.

So you have to do a lot of act. Now, let me ask you, Jason, between you and me, you know, just between you and me, every time you, me.

And all the other listeners.

Well, okay, between you and me, when you sit in front of a typical investor here, are you in love with all of them? Are these people you want to go out to a social event with.

Not always.

Sometimes. Yes, but. But there are people that you don't.

Right.

So what do you do?

Don't you act, act interested? Act like you care?

Well, you know, there's an old saying that's interesting about that. And I always like this quote, you know, we become what we pretend to be. And so you eventually, you know, it's not really always a matter of acting. It's a matter of putting yourself into that, you know, that person's shoes and really like relating to them in a.

Real way and learning the skill of saying, oh, I know what type they are, I know what they need from me to feel trusted and delivered and cared for. And I'm going to do that. And that's one of the things that people learn over a period of time.

I mean, that was an interesting corollary to Earl Nightingale's famous statement, which I love. You know, we become what we think about.

Yes.

And then much later, I had heard someone else say, we become what we pretend to be interesting.

So if I begin to pretend that my job here with a prospect is to help them rather than to sell my stuff, I'm going to begin to do that. And if I begin to learn that there are a variety of tools and skill sets that I can bring to bear on helping that client, that's where we have different roles that we play to help people.

Okay, good. In the interest of time, let's go over the rest of those steps. I think two more left. Couple more minutes.

So we have the presentation. And what are we going to talk about in the presentation?

What do you think we're going to talk about? Filling their needs?

Absolutely. It doesn't matter how long we've been in business. It doesn't matter what the marketing department wants me to say. It matters how well I can calibrate my delivery, my solution to their needs. And before I move, I'm going to have each of those needs up on the board and I'm going to ask them where they want to start and then I'm going to show them in great detail how I will solve that. And I'm going to ask them if they believe that will be the solution and if they don't agree.

So I would say that's a tie down. You know, ask them if they think it's a solution.

It's an agreement.

Right?

I mean, it's just an agreement. If you believe that we can solve this. I'm going to put a check mark over there, 100%. Okay.

We've come to conclusion on that point.

On that point.

Good.

So I say, and I work through every point and I ask them to lead me through. And at the end I'm going to ask them, scale of 1 to 10, where are you? Do you think we can solve this for you? Okay, and if they're not above a 7, we're going to go. They're not a 10, we're going to go back and keep working until they get to a 10 or I recognize it's never going to work for me. Now, some people may only give a nine and that's their top score because.

Nothing'S ever a ten.

And then finally they're going to say, well, what's the cost of this? Alright, now we already know, right, what the parameters of that cost are going to be. It's within their budget, it's under their budget. Not the same, but under. Okay, so there you are, sir. We've done all that, we've solved all your problems. You believe we can solve them. It's within your budget. And the final close. Are you ready? This is the only Sandler close that is ever possible.

And now is this step seven?

No, this is step six.

Oh, we're still in step six.

Okay, go ahead. All right. What would you like me to do next?

That's pretty lightweight. Yeah, that's good. Well, you know, it's a consultative approach.

So it's.

And it's not manipulative. So that's. Okay.

Good. And, you know, help me. I'm confused. You believe we can solve the problem, it's within your budget. What did we say? What did you say you were going to do? Make a decision. What would you like me to do? Well, let's suppose, let's suppose they said, fine, here's the agreement. All right? Now, have you ever had someone sign an agreement and then within two or three days call you up and say, can you hold up on that?

Oh, sure. People get buyer's remorse.

So you got buyer's remorse. Remorse. Have you ever had anybody who accepted a deal, they call back in a couple of days and say, you know, Jason, that's really fine, but I had somebody else who came up with a better deal for me. Yes. All right. And so what we want to do in step seven, which we call the post sell, is we want to deal with buyer's remorse on the table. And we do that by saying, jason, I really appreciate you doing business with me, but remember when we talked about.

We could only deliver it in blue and you wanted green. But you kind of gave in on that.

Right.

Are you sure that's going to be okay? Because we can tear this up right now if you want to. I want to give the contract back to the buyer and find something, some small piece where they had to give in and ask them if they're really committed. Because I want them to have the chance right now to back out of the deal. Because when do I want to deal with that? Now or at 3 o' clock in the morning on a phone call that they left because they knew I'd get voicemail.

Agreed.

So it takes a lot of courage for people, a lot of what we call backbone, to give that contract back and offer to tear it up. And secondly, we want to rehearse them now. Jason, you know that you're, you're changing vendors now for your copy machine. You know what that other company is going to do next week when they hear that you've given me the contract. Right. They're going to be over here, they're going to be dropping prices. Whatever you want, they'll do for you. Right. Well, so when that happens, what are you going to say to them?

So you ask the client what they're going to say.

You rehearse the client, that's really good.

Wow.

Right? You rehearse the client, what are you going to say to them?

And the client generally says, well, I mean, I've already made the decision, I've gone with somebody, but they're going to drop the price. You're going to be paying me more than them. Are you sure you want to do that? And you're helping the client to get clear about what their decision is. And then finally, wouldn't it be nice if we didn't have to do all that prospecting? And we had a way of getting referrals right up front. Absolutely. So our system is, when we've concluded business, Jason, I really appreciate you doing business. I'm going to take very good care of you. Because you know, if I don't, you know what happens, Right? What happens?

I go somewhere else.

You won't be a long term client.

Right.

Someday, six, nine months from now, you're going to look back on this conversation. You're going to say, that was a great decision that I had. Now when you do, you begin feeling that way. I want. Not until then, Jason. But when you do, I want you to feel comfortable introducing me to six or seven people like yourself. When you feel that way, will you be comfortable doing that?

Sure.

Absolutely. So what am I going to do? Six or seven months from now, ask for more referrals. I'm going to come back and I'm going to say, are you comfortable now? Did we do what we say we were going to do? Are you happy with what I did? Are you comfortable? Is this the time now for you to introduce me to some people? Now, I didn't say refer. I didn't say give me a phone book of lists. I didn't say give me a name. I didn't say call and tell them I'm calling. I said introduce. Which means we're going to sit down and talk about where you were, where you are now, and why you think that I might be helpful to your friend. Is that helpful?

Yeah, sure it is.

So there is our system. Excellent.

Excellent. Well, Will, it's been great having you on the show. Thank you so much for sharing these wise tidbits with us. And where can people find out more about the system?

They can find out more about us. They can go to www.sandlerregionaltraining.com.

They can call me at 949 4860733. They can email me at will w I l l.christandler.com and Will, any words in closing, we have lots of material that we'd be happy to share with people. Be happy to talk with anybody who wants to talk more about this. And Sandler, by the way, is 226 offices around the globe. Our fastest growing areas are in the Middle east, in, in Eastern Europe and in Southeast Asia. So we're a global company, trained about 15 million people over the past 40 years. So I encourage anybody to give me a call and see if there's any way that I can help them.

Great. Well, Chris, thanks so much for joining us today.

Thank you, Jason.

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