CW 1066 FBF - Garrett Sutton – Real Estate Tax Benefits & Millions Of New Renters

Welcome to this week's edition of Flashback Friday. Your opportunity to get some good review by listening to episodes from the past that Jason has hand picked to help you today in the present and propel you into the future. Enjoy.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your Financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome listeners from around the world. This is your host, Jason Hartman. Thank you so much for joining me for episode number 717-717. And today we've got a bunch of things to talk about, not the least of which is how demographics affect you as a real estate investor. And I'll tell you, as I've said before, you are in the right time. It is an amazing time to be alive in so many ways. But as a real estate investor, it is really, really an amazing time. And we've talked about this on prior episodes in so many ways and so many times. And then John Burns, who's been on the show before and we probably need to get him back again. He runs a group, John Burns Real Estate Consult, which comes out with some interesting articles. Just what was it yesterday? His folks came out with a piece. This is from Mike Willinger, a senior consultant there. This is about sharers. Yes, that's kind of a hard word to say, sharers. Okay, so what is a sharer? Well, I am a sharer. The article says at jbrech, John Burns Real Estate Consulting, we use the term sharer to mean someone who was born in the 1980s and who is currently 26 to 35 years old today. Now, are you listening real estate investors? Because this represents a giant, a giant hidden, largely hidden, part of housing demand for, for especially rental housing. The article goes on to say there are 44 million of us in the United States and I have outlined our defining characteristics below. How many of you, and I think you can tell when I'm reading and when I'm just blathering On. Right. I think you can tell by now, especially if you're a regular listener, how many of you listeners know somebody who is in this group. There be between the ages of 26 and 35, and they're living at home with their parental units. Yes, it, you know, it. It didn't used to be this way. I remember a long time ago when I would have friends and girlfriends that, you know, they. They were in their early to mid-20s and. And they bought their first condo or they lived in an apartment. They didn't live with their parents. This was, this was considered really not cool. But now, you know, it's. It's just commonplace. Okay, so here is. Is what the article says about these sharers. This huge 44 million persons strong, untapped and largely unrepresented and unthought of segment of huge demand. Literally this tidal wave coming at the housing market, especially at the rental housing market. Okay. We share our likes and location on social media. We share rides on Uber or vacation rentals on Airbnb. We believe our education is not paying off yet due to a poor economy and high student debt. While the Great Recession made us more educated, practical and thrifty, we are less likely to commit, especially when it comes to home purchases.

Are you really happy you're a real estate investor right about now? I hope so. Okay. Many of us share a home with our parents and are delaying marriage and children, thus delaying household formation and home ownership by approximately five years.

Wow, that's big right there. That's really big. Okay. We are close to our parents. This is in part due to the advent of the birth control pill, which was approved in 1960 and resulted in a sharp drop in the number of children per household. So these 1980s sharers, there's a little infographic about them, right? And it talks about some of the stuff I just mentioned, Right? But they're used to the sharing economy. They're not. I remember listening to an interview of a Gen Y, a millennial person, and it was on television and it said, you know, as a generation, we actually like our parents. Now, of course, hopefully everybody likes their parents and loves their parents, but you know what I mean? It's kind of a snarky comment. You know, this generation is not the same as my generation, the Gen X generation, or certainly much different than the baby boom generation. These are the children of the baby boomers, sometimes called the echo boomers. In fact, people aren't really using that term very much. They just say millennial or Gen Y, but that's also the echo boomers. Right. And so the article goes on to say, in 2015, we headed 18.8 million households in the US including 7.4 million owned homes and 11.4 million. You notice a much higher rate of rentals and 11.4 million rented homes. Wow. You know, if you think about that, that is really an amazing number. 11.4 million rented homes. And that's just this demographic. It's not the overall demographic of renters by any means. Well, most of us have been more likely to rent and live in urban due to delayed marriage and kids and huge improvements in big city living. Okay. Now, I've talked about that trend many times, right? And that has definitely been the trend, the movement of people to these more urban areas, the gentrification of urban areas in many parts of the country. And I think that's great. The thing though is, you know, the cost of housing in those markets is really high considering what you get. You know, you live in a stacked type of unit, apartment type or condo type unit, stacked up very, very high density, very, very, very many units per acre. You know, I remember back in the days when I was in the traditional real estate business in Irvine, California, right? The city that gets voted the safest city by the FBI. Crime stats, the safest city in America, over 100,000 people. Irvine, mission Viejo, all these places in south Orange county, beautiful places to live. Of course, the. They always seem to be in the top rankings of safest places. And what I always like to joke about and say is, you know, congratulations.

You got voted the safest city In America, over 100,000 people again. So you'll never have to worry about dying because it's so safe. The problem is it's so boring. You may never live in the first place.

Right.

But yeah, I know I'm picking on my old place where I used to live a little bit. You know, where the sidewalks roll up at 9pm that is suburbia. And suburbia always had its advantages and disadvantages. But. But as I have, I think, accurately predicted, I'm already going to call my prediction accurate there. There's been this resurgence of the city, right, as the article talks about, but I am predicting and it hasn't happened yet. And I think I'm the lone predictor of this, the resurgence of the burbs, the suburbs. If any of you are Rush fans, go listen to the song Subdivisions by Rush. Okay? That came out a long time ago. And so the suburbs have always been teased for the negative things about them. You know, they're kind of boring, right? But the autonomous vehicle coming at us incredibly, incredibly fast. Like we talked about on the last episode with Michelle, Pittsburgh and Uber.

Wow.

Yeah, it's amazing, right? And there's this company called Auto Otto. I don't know if I mentioned that. That is retrofitting trucks to self drive. Yeah, big deal. Big changes going on. As I always say, geography is less meaningful than it's ever been in human history and this impacts our decisions as real estate investors dramatically, dramatically, dramatically. So suffice it to say, I don't need to read you the rest of this article, but there is a huge unrepresented and untapped demand, a tidal wave of people literally coming at the rental housing market over the next decade. And you, dear listener, you are going to take advantage of that by owning good income properties that make sense. That make sense.

Remember, you're listening to Flashback Friday. Our new episodes are published every Monday and Wednesday.

And it's interesting too when we talk about properties and the real estate market and so forth. I had Harry Dent on the show again yesterday. I interviewed him again. Of course, that interview is not published yet because I just, I just cut it yesterday. You know, he's been on the show several times, Harry Dent. A lot of good predictions, a lot of very wrong predictions too. People accuse good old Harry of data dredging, you know, just throwing lots of data at things and that just kind of makes the issue murky and confusing, right? But you know, he's been right and wrong and you know, he sticks his neck out a lot making these predictions and you know, he's predicting real estate bubble. And I think he's absolutely right. But the question is, you know, where and when. You can't talk about real estate as if it's one item. You've got to segment it up. There are so many ways to segment it, of course, by the three major market types around the world. Linear, cyclical and hybrid. That's one form of segmentation. But the other form of segmentation is price segmentation, location segmentation. Is it suburbia? Is it exurbia? The exurbs? Is it the urban core, the city, the inner city? Is it condo, apartment or single family home? There are so many ways to slice and dice and segment the real estate market. You cannot talk about it as it's one generic thing. So in this interview, which you will hear soon on the show coming up, and not today, but you'll hear it soon on a, on a future episode, he's starting to go on and on about A real estate bubble. But then as soon as I ask the question, I say, you know, Harry, you've gotta, you've gotta divide this up. And the question after you divide it up, even if there is a real estate bubble, and I think there is in those cyclical markets, I think we are going to see a correction. It's just gotta happen at some point. Los Angeles, watch out. Miami, oh, watch out. You know, it's been a few years since the Great Recession. It's time for another cycle. Boston, New York, Washington, Washington D.C. you know, you got so much government in there and, and we may have the brain dead Hillary Clinton criminal that gets elected. Matt Drudge interestingly said, you could put Hillary's brain in a jar and it'll win the election. I mean, talk about an unfit candidate. Certainly the Clinton crime syndicate is vast and very powerful. But it just goes to show you that there's obviously something going on here that is more than just the American people voting. First of all, of course the whole thing's rigged with the two party system. The fact that we can't get a Ralph Nader, a Gary Johnson or Ross Perot or any other, or Rand or a Ron Paul, which really, they would probably be third party candidates, you know, even though they ran on the Republican ticket.

So what?

We can't get any real choices in these elections. It's, it's, it's crazy, right? Matt Drudge was saying in an interview with Alex Jones, which was fascinating, by the way. You want to hear a fascinating interview? Listen to the Go Bing. I mean, don't Google it because they are tracking everything. Well, I'm sure Bing does too, but they're just smaller and evil. Check out that interview with Alex Jones, the radical guy. Many people think he is. He's kind of a blowhard, I agree. And a conspiracy theorist. And Matt Drudge, fascinating interview, but it just goes to show you that there's obviously more going on here than meets the eye. This is not just a matter of Republican Democrat. It's a rigged corporate media system that.

Just provides a media blackout to any real choice. I mean, look at these two candidates. We have, we have the criminal known as Hillary Clinton and we have Donald Trump, who, who must be trying to lose. I mean, I mean, seriously, do you actually think Trump wants to win the election with some of the stuff he says? It's, it's just, it's just crazy what he says sometimes, right? Is he, is he just Hillary's best friend trying to help her? Is the Illuminati running The election, the Bilderberg Group, I don't know. But folks, there's more going on here than just the American people going to the voting booth. That has got to be pretty obvious to you, right? Okay, enough about that. Oh, I want to ask you a question, listeners. So what do you think and do you have any great referrals for tax preparation? Our clients are always asking about this. The Venture Alliance Group on our voxer chat, our private voxer chat was talking about this over the last couple of days. And one of our listeners and clients, Chris, who's in the Venture alliance, he suggested I ask you the listeners and Chris, that's a great suggestion. So thank you. Who is your favorite? Do you have a really good tax professional? One distinction I want to make for the listeners is that, you know, people constantly refer to this as a cpa, a certified public accountant, and they sort of forget about or miss or maybe don't even know about this other form of tax professional that I think may actually be better when it comes to tax preparation, and that is known as the ea. Yes, ea. What is an ea, you ask? It is an enrolled agent. Now, these are the technical people who only do taxes. Whereas CPAs, they do other things. They do audits, they do forecasting. Enrolled agents do tax only. That's what they do. That's their specialty. They are really the technical, I'll say, nerds that know the tax code really, really well. It's inside and out. And a lot of CPA firms hire enrolled agents to do tax returns for them. Interestingly also, enrolled agents tend to be, and I don't know, my perception may be wrong here, so feel free to correct me. But they tend not to be the high flying marketer type of people as some CPAs are. They're more like the person that is the technician who sits at the desk and churns out tax returns and deals with the tax return software. So I just wanted to, number one, encourage you to check out enrolled agents. There is a website and I don't have it handy for the association of Enrolled Agents. You can just Bing it. You can Google it if you must, but you can look it up and find an enrolled agent in your area. Not that geography ever matters anymore because as your host always says, geography is less meaningful than it's ever been in human history. Yes, geography less meaningful than it's ever been in human history. All right, before we burn up too much time here, I want to play for you a segment of an audiobook by Garrett Sutton and Garrett Sutton, as You know, has been on the show many times. I think he does a fantastic job. I've been reviewing some of his books and this is from Loopholes of Real Estate. It's just, it's just fantastic. It's really well done. Great book. I'd highly recommend it. And I want you to listen to this chapter that answers some of the questions you as listeners and investors are constantly asking me. So let me play this for you and just know that I am playing it to save your time and compress your learning at 1.5 times speed. I'm speeding it up a little bit and it still sounds great. Garrett, you're awesome. Check out his website or actually, if you want to get a free he spoke at our Meet the Masters event. And if you want to get a free mini asset protection seminar from Garrett Sutton, of course he's been on past episodes, you can go to Jason hartman.com and look those up. But you can get this emailed to you if you visit hartmaneducation.com hartmaneducation.com so let me just play this and do a little commentary on it. Okay, Here we go.

Business. In the last chapter, we covered how depreciation and passive loss help to make real estate income a form of passive income an effective method for building wealth. As I explained in terms of the US Tax code, passive loss refers to losses absorbed through ownership of a rental property. It's reflected as an amount of money up to $25,000 that an individual or a married couple filing jointly may use to offset other passive income earnings. As long as that individual or couple has an adjusted gross income of $100,000 or less. Claiming passive losses can provide you with a significant tax deduction. Now imagine that you could claim the entire depreciation amount along with all business deductions discussed later on in this book against your household's combined earned income. If real estate were your business, that's exactly what you could do. I've asked Rich dad advisor Tom Wheelwright for his thoughts on this important strategy becoming a real estate professional.

Okay, so remember, income property. Real estate is the most tax favored asset class in America. And be careful, by the way. I just. This is a little side note. If you are into vacation rentals and you're doing the VRBO Vacation Rentals by Owner or Airbnb thing, you are susceptible to some, some tax hits that you may not know about. Very, very disconcerting. Covered those on prior episodes. The tourism tax. Because you're basically running a hotel. If you're, if you're renting your property for less than 28 days. Okay? And also, you may not be able to depreciate your property in the same way that you can depreciate very favorable income properties as a passive loss because that is considered an active business, like running a hotel. So be very careful of this. Again, I'm not a tax advisor. I'm not an attorney. Garrett Sutton does a great job at covering some of the tax issues. Even though he's not not a tax guy. He also does a great job forming entities. His prices are very reasonable. So check. Check out Garrett Sutton's work. But let me continue playing this for you. Okay?

Investors are the passive loss rules. Under these rules, passive losses can only be used to offset passive income. A business activity is passive if the owner does not spend much time, typically less than 500 hours per year, participating in the business. The challenge for real estate investors is that losses from rental real estate are generally considered passive regardless of how much time the owner spends working on the real estate. There are two exceptions to this rule. The first, which is very easy to achieve, is referred to as the active participation exception. Any owner who spends some significant time on his or her real estate investments during the year qualifies, at least where the owner directly owns the real estate that is not as a limited partner in a partnership. This could include reviewing reports from the property manager, researching properties to buy or handling the financing of real estate purchases. The IRS has been pretty generous in allowing this exception. The active participation exception allows up to $25,000 worth of losses during the year from rental real estate to be treated as ordinary deductions not subject to the passive loss restrictions. This exception only applies, however, when the owner's adjusted gross income AGI is not more than $100,000. If your AGI exceeds $100,000, then the $25,000 limit is phased out by $0.50 for every $1 the AGI exceeds $100,000. So for example, if your AGI is $110,000, then the limit for that year will be $20,000 or $25,000 minus $0.50 times $10,000. The second exception to the rental real estate passive loss rule is the real estate professional exception. The real estate professional exception is the get out of jail free card for real estate investors. If you meet this exception, then none of your rental real estate income and loss are subject to the passive loss rules. This is a much tougher exception to get than that for active participation because you actually have to meet two criteria. One, you spend more than 750 hours per year, which comes to about 14 and a half hours per week as a material participant in a real estate business, which could include management, brokerage, construction, development, leasing, rental and operation. And two, you must spend more time in real estate businesses than all other businesses, including employment that you're involved in combined. If you meet both of these criteria, then you qualify as a real estate professional. The good news is that for a married couple, only one of the spouses has to qualify. But one trap here is that you still have to meet the passive activity rules for each property as if it were a regular trade or business. In other words, the real estate professional status only gets you out of the rental real estate trap. You still have to meet the 500 hour criteria for each property.

Okay, so that is fairly easy to meet, I believe. Leave as long as you own several properties. And why don't I give you an exact number? Because there isn't one. But you need to justify 500 hours annually, a little less than 10 hours a week of material participation in the real estate investing business and those properties and then 750 hours total per year. About 15 hours per week. But just keep in mind that we have literally had clients over the years adjust their life. So if they have a spouse who is working, or you know, the one spouse with a lower paying job, or the spouse that is working part time, they will literally consider adjusting their life and their career so that they can become a race real estate professional. Remember, only one of the spouses needs to do it. So and keep in mind single people like yours truly, this may be a reason to get married. It's such a good deal. It's a huge, huge tax incentive. It's a very big deal. Remember, we're talking about this because taxes are the single largest expense in anybody's life. So we want to minimize this and use the techniques of the wealthy who own a lot of real estate, who take advantage of this most tax favored asset class in America.

This could be a problem since most people don't spend 500 hours on a single property. The tax law provides a simple way around this. On your tax return, you may elect to treat all of your properties as a single property. This is called a section 469C7 election. The election is made on your personal income tax return. Doing so is permanent. And there can be some unintended consequences of electing to do this. So be sure to meet with your tax advisor before you make this decision. Thanks again, tom. Loophole number 12, the section 469C7 election is a classic tax loophole. Not that many people know about it, but it is there for everyone to use. Now let's apply the lesson. Case number six, Sandy and Bob. Bob is a successful dentist in his community. In the 15 years since he established his own practice, he's established a reliable base of patients and has built a thriving business in a great location. A couple years ago, he brought his wife Sandy, a business expert with an MBA on board to help him oversee the business end of the dental practice. She had recently left her job at a financial services firm and Bob knew that Sandy's business acumen would be helpful in getting his administrative house in order. She brought on new employees, developed effective new processes and enhanced the office's marketing efforts. Within a few months, Sandy's improvements had managed to make the dental practice a well oiled machine. Now she could turn her attention to their real estate portfolio. Bob and Sandy owned three small apartment buildings around town as well as one small commercial center that was home to a nail salon, a chiropractor's office, a coffee house and a wine shop. Fortunately, Bob's dental practice was a success and their investments earned a nice passive income for them. Unfortunately, because Bob earned on average $250,000 per year, the couple couldn't use passive loss, which in their case came to about $100,000 from their investments to offset his high, high earned income. Eventually, they would be earning sheltered profits when the mortgages on their properties were paid off and the rentals made pure profit. Or if they were to sell a property when those things eventually happened, they could use their losses to shelter those profits. But until that time, the losses were going unused. Sandy made an appointment with their CPA to discuss the situation and see how they might improve their tax situation. The CPA asked, what about becoming a real estate professional? He explained to Sandy that If she spent 750 hours per year or about 15 hours a week on the couple's real estate investments, she would be considered a real estate professional by the IRS. This would enable the couple to write off 100% of their passive losses against Bob's high income, which would bring his taxable income down to $100,000. This $100,000 deduction brought Bob and Sandy into a lower tax bracket, saving them roughly $31,000 in taxes. Sandy already devoted a large percentage of her time to overseeing their investments and when she saw the tax advantages, her decision became clear. She would file the section 469 c7 election and become a real estate professional. The Work of Being a Real Estate Professional it's important to mention here that if you're married and filing jointly like Sandy and Bob, only one of you needs to meet the two criteria for becoming a real estate professional. You don't need professional licensure as a developer, contractor or other specialized real estate service in order to be considered a material participant in those activities by the irs. Your involvement in these services may be rather broad. They are as follows. 1. Acquisition as you've likely already determined, the business of acquiring real estate can be quite time consuming and involved. Whether or not you use a Realtor, you're going to be meeting with various people, consulting professionals in areas of finance or real estate, traveling to see properties, drawing up offers and counteroffers, arranging inspections, and more. Even without actually closing on a property, those hours spent in acquisition mode count towards your material participation.

2.

Brokerage or sales as much time as acquisition takes, you can expect an equally long amount of time preparing and executing a sale on a property. Everything from cleaning and repairing a property to arranging showings, advertising, addressing issues that arise during inspections, responding to offers, and of course, signing closing papers.

Just a reminder, you're listening to Flashback Friday. Our new episodes are published every Monday and every Wednesday.

Now remember, of course, my company makes this all a lot easier for you, so you may have to figure out some other stuff to do or become a little less efficient. Just think of it like being a government employee. Try to be as inefficient as possible.

Takes considerable time and counts towards your real estate professional hours. 3. Construction or reconstruction this category is fairly narrow and is often included within development or redevelopment. It pertains to actual work you perform on the building as well as time spent hiring, firing or meeting and working with those involved in actual construction. 4. Conversion similar to redevelopment, conversion activity may involve going through the rezoning process or turning, for instance, an old colonial style home into an inn. 5. Development or redevelopment this category includes any time spent on real estate improvement. You may perform the work yourself, but you don't have to in order to qualify as a material participant in the process. It might mean hiring contractors, reviewing architectural plans, dealing with financing, filing plans with cities or counties, or discussing the plans with any professional as part of the project. Improvements might include building additions, dividing up a property, adding new structures, or removing features that are not wanted. 6. Operations or management these activities are likely things you're already doing. It involves actually managing the operations of the property yourself or working with a property management company. All administrative tasks including paying bills, replacing appliances or Equipment, arranging repairs, collecting rent and other landlord activities are part of this category and 7 rental or lease Activity the activity in this category is part of any overall effort to find, secure and maintain tenants in a rental. This includes advertising and showing the property to potential renters, reviewing applications and lease agreements, and conducting walkthroughs. Whether you perform these activities yourself or devote time to finding other professionals who can do these things, this is valuable time that can be applied towards being classified as a real estate professional. Tracking your time spent on these activities is fairly simple. Just keep a log or journal in which you record the dates and time spent and what tasks you performed.

By the way, our software makes that very easy. Of course you know that I with Fernando acquired the company Real Estate Tools last year. Check it out@realestatetools.com and inside one of the apps called Property Tracker, which of course many of you are familiar with. And that's it. You can get a discount on that actually@jasonhartman.com and there's a nice discount on Property Tracker there as well as well as a free trial. But there is a communication log. It's so handy you can just easily track all of your real estate professional stuff right inside of Property Tracker. It's a fantastic tool.

For example met with property manager Judy Green to review rental applications. There's also another way to earn this designation. Work as an actual licensed professional in one of these covered trades such as a contractor or broker. As long as you own at least a 5% interest in the real estate company employing you, your activities will be considered non passive. Without this share of ownership, you cannot qualify as a real estate professional in the eyes of the irs. One final note, if you're a real estate agent who works as an independent contractor, you also have the option of forming an S corporation or an llc. Taxed as an S corporation, which your brokerage firm can then contract with. Commissions are paid to your entity. Your entity then pays you a salary. In this way you own at least 5%. Likely it's 100 of the business paying you, thus qualifying you under the rule above as a real estate professional.

I just want to make one note to Garrett's mention there. Number one, remember he is not saying you need to be in the real estate business or have a real estate license. This is about being an investor. Real estate professional is not necessarily a licensed activity, but having that license could add to your hours. So that's what that's the point he's making. I believe that's how I interpret it and how many guests on the show over the years, I interpret it as well. But note that if you have an entity contracting with a real estate firm, that can be difficult depending on what state you're in.

States like California and New York, they cut red tape lengthwise. It's incredibly complicated to do business in states like that with big government intervention. So it depends where you are. That's all state by state. It's not federal. Just understand that.

Work with your tax advisor to discuss whether this option is a good one for you as well. Know that the IRS does scrutinize the real estate professional designation, so keep good records and stay up to date on the rules with your tax professional. The Professional Flipper. Many people approach real estate purchases with.

Different goals, so this part, I'll just let you listen a little more is about flipping. And of course, flipping is not tax advantaged like buying and holding. It's much more difficult, it's much more complicated, it's much more risky, all of that. And by the way, if you are a flipper, if I haven't talked you out of flipping yet, we have an app for that. There's an app for that, as the saying goes. And you can find that also@realestatetools.com or in the itunes store. And that's called Property Fixer, which can help you analyze flips. It's a fantastic little app.

Some have a desire to earn quick returns. These people purchase properties with the intention of fixing and flipping. Buying an inexpensive property, fixing it up and selling it when the market is ripe for gains. Flipping can seem a lucrative strategy, especially if you're handy and can put your own sweat equity into the property saving on your improvement costs. However, if you do this frequently, you won't be considered a real estate professional. Instead, flipping may be viewed as your trade or business and you'll be classified as a broker dealer. As such, you'll be generating ordinary earned income doing this. It's considered your salary and this means paying regular income taxes plus employment taxes which have some of the highest tax rates. And as a broker dealer, you can't take advantage of passive losses or the real estate professional strategy. Be sure to consult your tax advisor if you are flipping properties or interested in doing so in order to be sure of your tax obligations. Other tax write offs.

All right, I think you got the idea there. Garrett's books are great. I don't agree with him on everything, of course, but he's got some great resources and great information in his books and that is the real estate Loopholes book. Check out his website@sutlaw.com or corporate direct and let him know we sent you because he's been a great supporter of the show. He spoke at our Meet the Masters of event in January in San Diego. He just does a really good job. So there you have it folks. We've got two events coming up, of course, Venture alliance in Seattle. That's going to be a fantastic event on Labor Day weekend in seattle. Check out venturealliancemastermind.com and then also our Phoenix software and buying event. And I think I created a good tagline for this concept and that event. And it is education plus technology equals empowerment. There's very high leverage that comes from education and very high leverage that comes from technology and of course very high leverage that comes from real estate investing. So that's all the stuff we're going to cover. And we are going to have several of our local market specialists come out. If you have not registered for our Phoenix event, hurry up and do so. Go to jasonhartman.com and make sure you register for that event. The room is filling up. It will probably sell out fairly soon. So Jason hartman.com events and register for our event in Phoenix on September 10th and 11th. It's going to be awesome. Where we cover software for real estate investing. Some of the software I talked about here on this episode and we have presentations from several of our local market specialists talking about their markets, their management practices and their acquisition practices as well. It's going to be a really good event. So join us in Phoenix on September 10th and 11th. Happy investing. We'll talk to you on the next episode.

I've never really thought of Jason as subversive, but I just found out that's what Wall street considers him to be be.

Really? Now how is that possible at all?

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