CW 1117: Client Case Study, 18 Units & Counting, Davos GDP v Happiness Debate

Working with the local market specialist went really well. I feel like I was able to get the type of property that I wanted and happy with the price and the rehab job and the tenants have gone well.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your Financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to episode 1117. 1117. This is Jason Hartman, your host and thank you so much for joining me today. I have our in house economist Thomas Young with us today. He was a economics professor and now he has his own company, Econometrics and we are discussing Davos. Yes, Davos World Economic Forum. I have to confess to you listeners, this is one of my bucket list items. How nerdy is that? That my bucket list item is to go to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland and hang out with the elitist, the globalist, the economist. That's on my bucket list. Yes, I know it's a little bit nerdy, it's a little bit odd. But I want to go to Davos. So if any of you can help me do that, I would pay very dearly to that item off my bucket list. I've checked quite a few off already, 81 countries and counting. I will get to 100 here eventually. So there's a bucket list item for you. Okay, we've got Meet the Masters of Income Property coming up in March. Be sure to register for that@jasonhartman.com masters. It is going to be an awesome event. We've got a couple of guest speakers we're going to be announcing soon, but this time we are trying to include a little bit more of our own content. We get great events evaluations on our events. People love our events. Hardly ever is there a negative evaluation and if there is, it's always because of a political difference because we do have a few people that come that just don't know what's going on. Anyway, one of the suggestions we had From a few people from last year. Our last big event where we had Ron Paul as a keynote speaker and we had many other big name speakers, as many of you know who attended is they want a little more Jason time. So hey, we're going to give it to you. A little more Jason time coming up. It's not, not as many speakers, but we will have some great, very well known guest speakers that we will be announcing very shortly. We're just waiting for some contracts back and then we can make them official. Hey Thomas, let's talk about Davos, Switzerland. What happened at the World Economic Forum this time, besides all of these wealthy hypocrites flying more private jets than ever and then talking about the dangers of global warming and high carbon footprints. I guess that doesn't apply to them, right?

Yeah, apparently not. Let's see, the big three that made Davos a big hit last year were missing Trump, Putin and xi.

That's kind of amazing that those three big, big names didn't show up. I mean, wow, speaking of Trump, is Trump kind of just dissing the global establishment to some extent? I mean, this is so different. You know, he doesn't go to like press, what is that annual press club event they have? The White House Press club dinner? You know, he doesn't go to that. He doesn't. He, he really is an outsider, isn't he?

He's definitely not a globalist or, you know, it doesn't appear like he's that way.

No, not at all. Not at all. And he dissed the Koch brothers too. These, the Republican Koch brothers that, you know, have the billions of dollars to support the party. He just said, eh, their brand of Republicanism is out of style. It's kind of amazing.

Well, I didn't hear that one.

Yeah, that was a few months ago in the news. But anyway, Davos, the government's back open for business again. I don't know if that's good or bad, but I guess it's good. What about Davos?

Yeah, so they went over some relevant topics. AI the one that I found most interesting was the, basically a happiness quotient for gdp. We ought to report more frequently what happiness is and I, I don't find it that much useful, but I've always.

Found those indexes interesting, the happiness quotient, you know, and they've tried to measure the happiest places, the happiest countries on earth and so forth. And I think that is a really, really tough one. But what did they say at Davos about it?

Yeah, so on the happiness quotient related to quarterly GDP figures. The thought came to me, GDP is coming out this week for the fourth quarter, and, you know, the third quarter was quite good at 4.2% and the second quarter was above 3%. The general consensus is that GDP will come in a little softer. The stock market performed poorly in the fourth quarter and business investment might have been weak, but retail spending was real strong. So there's a chance it could still come in fairly strong.

Yeah, we'll see. But back to specifically Davos. So that's the US gdp. The happiness index does not connect GDP to happiness. Right. Is that the basic premise? You know, you can be a wealthy country, you can have great productivity, but that doesn't make you happier. Right. That doesn't make the population happier. Is that kind of the point of the happiness index?

Yeah, that's the point. So for, I guess when I try to apply it to, say, the United States versus, say Kenya, you know, Kenyans may say they're happy and maybe Americans may say they're not as happy. Although Americans typically report higher happiness, it is generally connected with GDP growth. So when GDP growth or GDP per capita is higher, countries typically report higher happiness.

Yeah. Interesting. And, you know, these Scandinavian countries always seem to perform pretty well in this happiness index. You know, this is a long topic. Maybe I'll do a 10th episode show on it. And I believe two things, and they sound contradictory about this, but Dennis Prager, on his show, he would do something called the Happiness Hour, when, you know, on his radio show, at least in the old days, I don't know if he still does it. His premise is that happy people make the world a better place. And I agree with that. But the contradictory concept is the, that I don't think happiness is the meaning of life. I think that happiness is a byproduct of being a productive member who is serving society, serving mankind, and has a mission. The sort of the New age mentality of, oh, you know, don't do it unless it brings you joy, and this gotta be happy, happy, happy. That just to me just reeks of selfishness. Just don't like it, you know, like these people that will, you know, will avoid a confrontation because they don't want to get upset and ruffle their feathers. I mean, imagine if Gandhi was like that. Imagine if Martin Luther King was like that. Imagine if Winston Churchill was like that. Imagine how the world would be if just those three figures, you know, I could list a hundred more, of course, had that attitude. You know, if they were Selfishly looking out for their own happiness. You know, history would have been terrible. It would have been completely different.

So I don't know this happiness index. I don't know how much stock to put in that. You think I'm crazy, Argue with me.

It looks to me, when I look at the happiness index numbers that are out there now, that the easiest way to improve happiness would be to make the world colder.

Colder. Okay, tell us about that.

So the countries that are colder, like you said, the Scandinavian countries or Canada, they're cold. They report higher happiness. So, you know, there's this idea that the key to happiness is just to have low expectations. Well, I guess two things to make the world happier, make the world colder and have low expectations.

Okay, well, this is a causation that's, you know, obviously, I know you're. I know you're joking, okay? Because, I mean, in cold climates that tend to be these cold, dark climates, they have high suicide rates, they have high depression rates. Sad, which is an acronym for Seasonal Affective Disorder, talks about how people in these gray, dark, dreary climates become depressive. Which, you know, I think that's a legitimate thing. You know, sunshine places are kind of a happier environment. But let me make a different connection for you. And that's the evolutionary connection. And this is an old theory. It's not my theory. I'm simply the messenger here, so I don't need to get a bunch of hate mail on this, okay? If you disagree, it's not my idea. I'm just repeating an idea, okay? Is that the equatorial type countries that are the sunniest and the warmest, you know, it's sort of easy to survive in those places. So throughout history, you didn't have to be as productive, if you will, in terms of hunting. You didn't have to work with members of a community to survive as much. And so there's an argument, and I've heard it before, that that's why you see the colder countries or the colder regions on Earth being more productive. Another theory that I sort of add on to about that. I remember when I was in ninth grade, I was shipped from Los Angeles, where I was in junior high school, to go live with my grandparents in upstate New York on a dirt road for three months. And, Thomas, I could not believe how much more difficult it was academically to keep up with those kids in New York. Okay? Now, this was not New York City, okay? A bastion of intellectualism, okay? This was upstate New York in the middle of nowhere at Letchworth Central School. Okay, look it up, folks. Where one of the big majors people had was agriculture, and I was in school with a bunch of farmers. But my theory there is that in warm climates, you know, people are outside, they're enjoying life a little more, they're on the beach. In cold climates, you know, you tend to be more inward thinking and you might sit inside and read a book, right? Get a little smarter. So I don't know, is that theory legit? What do you think?

That makes sense to me. There's, I don't know, this, this debate about what causes happiness. What do you make of it?

Well, money plays a part in it, okay? And there are some, I think, very good studies about that showing that, you know, money does make us happier to a point. It definitely has a bearing on happiness. And in the U.S. and of course, you have to adjust this for where you live and for inflation. Now, this was, gosh, I want to say, 20 years ago, I remember reading this article that was a very big study with lots of people about money and happiness. And at the time, you know, you'd have to adjust it for location where you live because the real estate prices and the price of everything varies so much. So you have to adjust the net worth for that and for inflation. But at the time they said people, people get, they definitely get happier. Up until their net worth 20 years ago, and adjusted for location was about a million five over a million five. No correlation between, you know, if you had $100 million, you weren't necessarily happier than if you had a million five, right? But a million five. Now adjust that for inflation from 20 years ago, okay? And adjust it for where you live. If you live in a low cost place, a million five will do you, do you fairly well, adjusted for inflation. But if you live in New York City, you got to have way more than a million five adjusted for inflation. Okay, so. Or if you live in Los Angeles or Seattle or San Francisco or any of these high priced places, San Diego, any of those, you got to have way more money than that adjusted for inflation. But I think there is a point to that, right? What do you think?

Yeah, I think this is the exact debate we'll have during the 2020 presidential campaign. Cortez, the New Jersey representative.

You mean the communist? Yes.

Yeah, this is exactly her point, a wealth tax. And she says it doesn't make them, doesn't make wealthy individuals happier. So let's tax it.

Yeah, well, that's going to make them unhappier, I can tell you that much. The money may not make them happier, but the tax will make them unhappier. That is no question about it.

She's out of her mind. Oh, boy. Boy. Well, Thomas, we're gonna do another episode this week on Davos and talk about it in more detail. What else are we going to cover when we talk about that?

Oh, yeah. So artificial intelligence and the impact on jobs, climate change. There are a good amount of discussions on what some advocates think need to be done on climate change. You know, the geopolitical situation is, I don't know, are we entering a new cold war?

That's, yeah, that's pretty, that's pretty scary. You know, I want to think that we have a peaceful Russia and a peaceful China due to Russia's change, obviously, back in 1989, 1990. But, you know, with China, I mean, I mean, trading partners, even if there is reduced trade through trade war and tariffs and such, I mean, trading partners, you know, they can't be in a cold war together, can they? Is that even possible?

Yeah, there's the. Oh, why am I drawing a blank? It's a flat world. The flat world.

The Thomas Friedman argument.

Yeah, Thomas Friedman. Countries tend to get along real well when they, when they both have McDonald's in them.

Yep, yep. Well, that's there. There's a metric. Yeah, Thomas Friedman has some definitely good points in the world is flat. But he's also way off on some things. Hey, I did the inflation adjustment while we were talking, and I took a million five in 1995 is basically 2.5 million today or 2017. So if your net worth is $2.5 million and you live in a reasonably low cost linear or hybrid real estate market, not the expensive markets in the Northeast, South Florida or along the west coast of the US Then you should be very happy if your net worth is 2.5 million or higher. Okay. If you live in one of those expensive markets, you got to adjust up and have more money than that to be quote, unquote, happy, according to this article in that big study that I read many years about 20 years ago. So there you go. Interesting stuff. China, we're going to talk about their slowdown, their terrible 5% growth. We're going to talk about, you know, current expansion, corporate defaults and a few other things here coming up on the next episode. Right, Thomas? Yeah. All right. Hey, thanks for joining me for this intro portion today. We got to get to a case of study here that I think you'll find interesting. A guy who's doing a great job with his Real estate portfolio. And here you go. Join us March 23rd and 24th for the 2019 Meet the Masters of Income Property. Let's break this down and look at some of the strengths of income property as an asset class. I found that this event is really.

Helpful because I'm totally a newbie to real estate investment.

And so I picked up some so much information. One of the great things about it is that it's so fragmented. Right, Embrace the fragmentation.

I've actually been learning a lot about.

Tax benefits to real estate and a.

Lot of I've been investing actually well over 10 years now, and I learned a lot of new things today. The other advantage of this weekend is networking. Meeting new property managers, meeting new area specialists and seeing the product they have to offer that changes year by year. Register now@jasonhartman.com Masters. Hey, I wanted to talk to you quickly about another case study, and this is a good one. I met Eric Payne just a few days ago here at the Capitalism conference, and we started talking about his interest in real estate. And we were having a little breakfast. Eric, how are you doing?

Good. How are you, Jason?

Good, good. Where do you live?

I live in Lexington, Kentucky.

Fantastic. And what got you interested in real estate and what's your background now? You have an E commerce business, right?

Correct. Yeah.

You sell office products, I believe.

Yes, that's right.

Okay, fantastic. And so what got you interested in real estate and when did that all start?

Honestly, I always wanted to be one of these guys that flips houses like you see on tv, and it was really sexy back then. Right. And so once I started doing my research, once I got out of college, got the job in engineering and had a little money where I could start doing that, I started researching it and I realized that there's just huge taxes to pay with capital gains when you flip. Right.

And so flipping is overrated.

Right. And so I started listening to some content at the time and realizing that rental real estate is really the way to go. Fortunately, the timing worked out very well for me because I started working full time as an engineer at the beginning of 08 and then.

What kind of engineer?

Civil engineer.

Fantastic. And by the way, listeners, I want to mention, we are at a conference here. We're at the Capitalism conference, capcon, as it's known, in Dallas, Texas. So sorry about the background noise, but it's a little noisy here, but go ahead.

Yeah, so the timing was just really in my favor because the first one that I bought was in 2010, and I bought what would probably be a $95,000 house if it wasn't for the crash, for $58,000. And I was able to get a second mortgage on top of, you know, these foreclosures that I was buying cheap and kind of domino effect the next properties that I got and collect them fairly quickly.

You know, I was amazed we were selling so many foreclosure properties during the Great Recession. And one amazed me maybe more than any other. I remember this property very specifically, and I am still totally disappointed I didn't buy it myself. It wasn't like that big a deal or anything, but it just was sort of emblematic of what was going on during that time. It was in Charlotte, North Carolina. This house was never lived in. It was essentially a brand new house, but it had gone into foreclosure right after the person purchased it. And I guess they never rented it or did anything or never moved in or whatever. They just lost it. And it was for sale. And it was like, I don't know, you know, you talk about buying under market. I think this was like $35 a square foot. It was a brand new house.

Yeah.

That's crazy. But it was a year old, but it was never lived in.

Right.

So, yeah, it was just amazing. And. And you know, we sold that property to a client. I'm not sure if that client is listening right now, but I wish I bought that house.

Right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was an amazing time. And right now, so since I live in Lexington, Kentucky, there's still a few deals to be had, but you have to really find them or be networked with the wholesalers.

Right. And it's not like before, you know.

Right.

But, you know, the thing is, look at. Everybody uses that as a reason not to invest. Right. We all do this as humans, you know, we all want to buy at the bottom, of course. And you can never really time it. I mean, during the time you were buying. Well, when did you find my podcast and when did you learn about my work?

Sure. I found that not long after my engineering job had started. And I was just, you know, really enamored with the whole real estate and being able to create a passive income income for myself. Right. And so I just found you by searching, you know, rental properties, real estate, whatnot, and you were, you know, an early adapter there.

I was early in the podcasting world.

Right. So there wasn't a ton of people. So of course you showed up pretty quick and I just started listening and. And you've always put out a ton of Content. So it was just more fuel to the fire back then, you know.

Good, good stuff. But back to that other thing we were talking about, you know, back then when you were starting to buy, you know, you were recently out of college, you started young. That's fantastic, by the way. Really, really impressed with that. You know, you had your job as a civil engineer and you thought, I don't want to be a slave probably anymore. I'm guessing that's what you thought, right?

Yeah. What's funny is you hear a lot of people talk about, like, hating their job, climbing the corporate ladder.

They're not passionate about politics, you know, people backstabbing.

Yeah. So for me, I actually liked my job. I enjoyed it. I liked the people that I worked for. I just. I realized pretty quickly that a dollar an hour raise is not going to get you very far. You know, I just realized that if I'm going to create wealth for me, then it's up to me, not my employer.

Yeah. Very good attitude. Very good attitude. So when you started investing, and this is the fundamental thing, because people, I think, really sabotage themselves by trying to time the market. Okay, so when you did it, we were in a huge recession. The Great Recession, the second worst economic time in the US in the past hundred years, you know, maybe more than 100 years. Really. So we had the Great Depression that started in 1920. Then we had the Great Recession that started, I say, in 2007. Most people say 2008. Were you scared? Like, were you worried that, hey, you know, you're gonna buy this property and it's gonna go down in value even more? How do you know that you're at the bottom?

I wasn't worried about that at all. I realized how good of a deal that these houses were. And I wasn't comparing, is this house that I'm buying for 60,000 gonna go to 30? I didn't care because I knew I could rent it for $700 a month and it cost 350. So, I mean, I thought that it would go up, but if it went down, it didn't matter. And that's probably the biggest reason that I'm such a fan of real estate. My brother, he's done very well for himself also. He's. He sold a startup. He's a multi millionaire. All his money is in the stock market. And I was texting him a couple weeks ago, you know, that Dow had the big downturn, and I was like, are all of your stocks down proportionately? And he sent back a mad face.

And so that's the stock market. Right. And I said, you know, my real estate's paying the exact same dividends it did last month.

Right, Right. So I love your philosophy about it, and I don't know if you got that from my podcast or not. I'd love to take credit for it if I can, but, you know. Yeah, you didn't care about the value of the property going up or down.

Right.

It didn't matter. But somehow you had this thought that cash flow or rental income was pretty reliable, and you were renting those houses you were starting to buy for just over a 1% rent to value ratio.

Yeah.

Why didn't you think, though, that the rent might go down?

I'll tell you this, when and when I was closing on my first property, it was the scariest thing ever because I'd never, you know, I'm just into my career. I just got a little bit of money after paying my student loans off, and I'm willing to throw this in on this first property. And I was like, you know, what if I'm wrong? What if it doesn't rent for 700? What if it only rents for like 500? You know? And my thought was, well, Your bills are 350 and you might have made a bad investment. You might be break even for a few years, but there's no way it rents for less than 500. So there was really a factor of safety there. I tell people that I invest in opportunities that have minimal risk and a huge upside, and that was right in line with that. And it turned out great. That was my first house, and it was the worst house I bought just because there were issues that I didn't really know to look for. And it cost money over time. But I ended up selling that house and came out on top by a few thousand bucks on the worst investment that I had ever made.

That's the worst. That's fantastic. And I love that philosophy about, you know, look at every investment has risk, everything. And when I was on stage on Monday, you know, I was saying to the audience here that, look at, you know, if you have your money in the bank, you are for sure losing money through taxes and inflation.

Yeah. And I have to also comment, back then, there wasn't a lot of people talking about it. Like, there's tons of podcasts, there's tons of YouTubers today, but. And I didn't have a mentor. I didn't have anyone to kind of like, guide me. So I was questioning myself, am I doing the right thing with this And I was so scared on that first property. But now I know exactly what market rent is. I know exactly how easy it is to rent things out in my geography. Right. And I barely have to look at a deal.

Yeah, yeah, you just know now.

Right.

And, and, you know, that's another good lesson, Eric. You learn it by doing it.

Right.

You know, you can go to all the seminars you want, you can listen to all the podcasts you want, but ultimately you're never going to really know until you just dive in and do it and take a little bit of risk.

Right, right. And you know what's great? I've referred several, several people to your website because, like, I was just talking to one yesterday because I have an Amazon business and many people here do and they've been very successful and people are always wanting to put. Whether they're selling or just have large amounts of cash flow, they're wanting to invest that. Right. And you know, a guy that I was talking to yesterday lives in California and it's hard in some cases to get lots of cash flow.

It's impossible in California.

Right. And there's tons of geographies around the US where that's also the case. It just isn't great cash flow. But what you've done is allowed people in California to invest in markets where you can reach the 1% rule. Right.

And 1% rent to value ratio.

Yeah. So since you've got these rental properties set up in local markets and established relationships with property management, etc. I mean, that makes it possible for, for guys or gals that live in California or New York to, to invest.

And, and, or Japan or, you know, wherever. Yeah, sure, whatever.

And I can understand for a new investor that that's scary to invest elsewhere, but it does also take away any excuse you have that I can't do real estate. Look where I live, you know.

Right, right, exactly. That's a great point. How many units are you up to now?

Currently I have 18 units. I just closed on one and these are all just single family duplex type properties.

Good, good. So you're up to 18 units now, but you are on the verge of selling, selling your business, your office products business. Right, right. And you're going to be. Are you going all in on real estate or.

Pretty much, for the most part. There are some other things that I would like to. I'll have some play money, call it just to dip my toe in the water with other businesses, but as far as an investment side, I'll probably put at least 70 to 80% in real estate.

Yeah. So you're gonna have a big check from your business and put about 70 to 80% of that back into more income properties that you're buying. So if you're at, what do you say, 18 units now.

Right. And I mean, it just depends on what kind of deals come up. I would love to find a 24 unit apartment complex that made sense. If I can't find that, I'll be looking for any multifamily duplexes, fourplexes that I can get.

Yeah, good stuff, good stuff. So what would you say to, you know, investors who maybe have a couple of units and want to grow their portfolio bigger? They got, you know, three or five units or whatever, or, you know, I think we kind of address the person who's just starting out, who's afraid to take the first step. But what would you say to the others who, you know, they got their foot in the water and they're moving along, but you know, maybe they're not up to 18 units yet.

The first thing that I'll say is, and you preach this all the time, is that the best product that I've ever seen is a 30 year fixed government backed loan at the smallest interest rate we've ever seen. I mean, if there's any.

Even now that rates have gone up, it's still cheap, it's still a great deal. We're just so spoiled. We think it's, oh, the rates are too high now, but they're really quite good.

Right. Historically, I noticed this concept a long time ago because my parents, their old, they're 78 now and it was about 15 years ago that they paid off their house because it was the end of their 30 year mortgage. And I had just bought my first house not long after that as a starter home is about 650amonth.

Right.

I asked them how much.

So wait a sec, I just want to make a distinction. You just bought your first house and you were buying investment properties long before that, Is that what you're saying?

No. The first house I purchased was my own.

Oh. Back then when they paid off their mortgage. Got it.

Yeah. And so I asked them, what was your mortgage payment? Because I know you all got this a long time ago. The answer with tax and insurance was $118 a month.

Oh my God, that's gonna be crazy to have $118 a month mortgage payment. They must have been shaking in their boots.

Right. But what that did for me is it made me realize fast forward 30 years with inflation and what you call an inflation induced debt destruction, your 30 year mortgage. Now if you didn't pay it off early, fast forward 30 years to the end of it. It's like a dinner.

It's going to feel like pennies.

Yes.

It's not even a good dinner.

Right, right. So that kind of really caught my attention for what happens over time. That's the leverage you have on inflation because rent goes up but your payments don't.

Yeah, right, right. Isn't that great? You know, the payments go down in value with inflation over time, but also the mortgage balance, the overall balance on that loan goes down in value and those rents keep going up.

Right. I got on a tangent about that. But your original question asking what I would tell people is since you have that vehicle available, I would absolutely take advantage of it. If you're interested in this, you should over time get at minimum your 1030 year fixed mortgages. And then, you know, there's other options for lending after that, Which.

Beyond the 10.

Yes.

Yeah. And if you're married, you can get 20 if you got a working spouse.

Right, right. And so to me, of course, I've been in this. I understand all the ins and outs. It's a no brainer.

Right.

So that's, that's what I would definitely advice. I'm wondering.

Good advice. That's very good advice. So, Eric Payne, thank you so much for sharing your story. It's very inspirational. And man, I think you're gonna have a big real estate empire after you get the sale of your business through.

I appreciate it. Yeah.

And you are, how old are you now?

Yeah, I'm 37 now. And it was nine years ago that I. No, it was 2010. Yeah, it was nine years ago that I bought the first unit. I actually collected seven last year even though there weren't great deals. I found a package deal of three duplexes and I bought another single unit. So I went from 11 to 18 units just in this past year.

Fantastic. Good for you. That's awesome. I mean, listen, this is not like an incredible story like you bought 100 units, you know, but I mean, you got 18 units, you're 37 years old and, and you know, when the sale of your business goes through, you're gonna have, you know, a couple dozen more.

Right, right. And probably the cash flow, you know, say in a year, once I get some more money invested, the cash flow will be somewhere between $120,000 and 150k a year. That's an excellent retirement income for the cost of living in Kentucky, but I don't want to touch that. I'll just use that for more investments. And I've got my time free to do fun things, business things that I want to do with my time during the day, and obviously that'll create an income. So I think I can create a pretty, pretty good snowball here.

I think you can too. Well, listen, congratulations to you folks. That's Eric Payne and what a great story. Happy investing. We appreciate you sharing your story on the show.

Thanks, Jason.

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