CW 1129: High-End Apartments, 4% Rule & Self-Management Tool for Landlords by RentRedi's Ryan Barone

Thanks for your support, Jason. I appreciate yours and Carrie's support and your whole network. It's really been very beneficial to me and a whole lot of others. I encourage everyone to use your resources that you have. But thanks. Thanks, Jason.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your Financial Independence Day. You, you really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to episode 1129. 1129. This is Jason Hartman. Thank you so much for joining me today as we are on the eve of the holiday of love. Yes, Valentine's Day. I don't know why we're making such a big deal out of that this year, but. Well, I guess we are because we have a sale tied to Valentine's Day, a sale you will love. You know, years ago we used to do something called Frugal Friday where we would offer a discount not every Friday, but on lots of Fridays on various products or events that we're hosting and so forth. And people ask that we bring that back. So, hey, who doesn't love a deal? I love a deal. Doesn't matter how much money you have. It's always nice to get a deal. You know, it makes you feel good that you stuck it to the man. Right. So stick it to us. Take advantage of our Valentine's Day sale tomorrow where you can get half off the Meet the Masters recordings. And that'll be from last year's Meet the Masters. They'll be half price tomorrow, Valentine's Day and tomorrow only. So you just got one day to buy them. That'll be a gift you love. And I've got Adam here with me today as we talk for a moment. Before we get to our guest. Adam, how you doing?

Doing great today. Thanks for having me.

Good to have you back on the show. We want to talk. Well, we want to talk about apartments and a little more about. I talked about it the other day. But it's interesting how the makeup of the apartment renter demographic is changing, isn't it?

That it is.

But the apartment renter demographic is really becoming a higher end demographic, isn't it, Adam?

Yeah, a lot of people are going for that upper echelon because. And the apartment builders obviously know that because that's the primary area that's being built out at the moment.

Right, right. So they are probably appealing to baby boomers who are empty nesters and, you know, giving up the big house and want to have a little freer lifestyle. They're also looking for just the more affluent renter in general that in the past would have probably gravitated towards homeownership. But we all have talked about many times how America is becoming much more of a renter nation than it ever has been in history. Well, at least modern history. I should. So yeah, it really is interesting how that's changing. But would this possibly lead to a glut? For example, if we have two intersecting things where we've got all this new supply of high end apartments coming online and then the recession we're all waiting for does hit, what are we going to see? Adam?

Well, right now, according to Costar, there are about 650,000 units of apartments being built right now. And of those, about half of them are in downtown or central business district areas. And 80% of the 650,000, so 520,000 of them are going to be in the top 10% of the market rents. So if you're looking at 520,000 out of 650,000, if our economy goes down 15, 20% in a recession, those apartments, nobody's, well, not nobody, but probably at least half of your audience that is looking for those homes are going to look at the next tier down. Yeah, it's new, that's great. But if my choice is, hey, my job may disappear, especially if it's in a downtown area like let's say I'm in a tech sector and I think, hey, all the tech jobs are leaving.

Right.

Do I want to get this new $8,000 a month apartment or this older, not quite as nice $6,000 a month apartment? I know which way I would head.

Right, right. Well, that actually leads to a question. I don't know if you're just sort of using those numbers as an example, but did costar in the article you're reading, did they give a number like what do they consider to be high end rent, high end apartments? Now I would think that that would be, you know, 3,500 to $4,000 a month. I mean of course, it depends on the city. Obviously in New York City that gets you nothing, you know, gets you.

It's even worse than that.

Yeah. OK.

The average Class A apartment is about $1,800 a month and the average Class B is about $1,300 a month. So these ones that are being built in downtown, you're not at least in Austin and I assume in Florida, $1,800 a month for a nice, a really nice apartment isn't going to get you very far.

Oh no, it's not going to get you very far at all. I mean, I just looked at some apartments near where I just purchased my home here in Florida and I thought I'd check out the rental market and see what they're offering. And I mean, you get a tiny little AP $1,800 a month. I think it technically was a one bedroom, but the square footage is like ridiculously small. I mean it was, I want to say, 790 square feet or something like that. I don't remember. And I already tossed the price list, but going up to about $3,000 a month, you still don't get very much. And you know, these apartments were definitely considered class A. They would rank that way. They're not high rise though. And I didn't think they had very nice design or amenities really. They were, you know, nice enough, but. And they were new. It's a new complex. But yeah, I think we're really going to see the apartment thing overbuilt. You know, this always happens in every cycle. It just always works out that way. But it's interesting because our guest today is going to talk about his rental app and some best practices for that. It's just a short interview. I just thought it was interesting. And another movement toward the empowered investor and the self management opportunity, which folks, I got to tell you, every day one of the most frustrating things in our business is. Well, there are many frustrating things, but one is competitors who lie, lie, lie. Two is competitors who steal your intellectual property, which is really annoying. But I guess it's kind of a form of flattery too. They say imitation, right?

It's an expensive form of flattery.

It's an expensive form of flattery. But yeah, I'd rather be flattered in other ways than people ripping off my creations. But it's the property managers, right? And I just want to create an audience of tens or hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of empowered investors who they can use managers if they want and at least they know what they're Doing so that they keep that management relationship in check or they can self manage and they have the power to do either one. And that's really one of my big passions in this business is, you know, many years ago that was the theme of one of our Meet the Masters events. We always have a theme every year. This year it's the big boring and extremely profitable idea. Extremely. I threw in there, but the big boring, profitable idea. And we're going to talk about that. You don't know what that is yet, folks, but it's coming at Meet the Masters. But you know, several years ago we started with the empowered investor. Right. You know, that still very much lives for us, you know, having people do that. But we're getting a little off topic, which is nothing new here. We do this often. Anything more about the apartment?

Well, I have one anecdotal thing for you based on what you've talked about with the apartments and with kind of being overbuilt. I have a friend here in town in Austin who is a real estate agent and he recently posted a property on his Facebook page and he said it was an investment property. This is a 1700 square foot home that's on 2/5 of an acre and a decent part of the of Austin, but not great. And it's not zoned for multifamily or anything of that nature. And he's calling it an investment property. And this thing is selling for $800,000.

Yeah, an investment.

And I simply posted on there, you and I have very different definitions of an investment property. And all of these, a whole bunch of people were interested in it and saying, is this zone for commercial or is this zoned for multifamily? And he said, no, not right now. And somebody said, well, that's way too much money. And his response, whenever I read it just told me we're either at the top or very close to the top for the high end market.

Because he said, oh, don't, don't tell me what he said. Let me guess, let me guess, let me guess. He said something about it's going to be worth much more soon. You know, he's in it.

No, he didn't say that. His response was that when they said, is it overpriced? He said, maybe, but I know I'll get it.

Yeah, right. Oh my God. Yeah. It's crazy. Ridiculous. Yeah.

Whenever I read that, I was just, oh my goodness. You know, this is what people say at the top. This is the, you know, greater fool theory that you've talked about in the past.

Exactly.

And then I started thinking about your theme.

Different mentality, right? Yeah.

And then I started thinking about the theme for Meet the Masters, the big boring idea. And I started listening to my podcast, and it was talking about today's market and, you know, yesterday's market and all of this. And I thought to myself, why did I wait so long to get into real estate? Because I don't want to spend the rest of my life listening to market updates that talk about the dow went up 0.1%, the Dow went up 1%, and worrying about my retirement for the rest of my life.

Right?

I was like, I don't care if my real estate investment property is devalued by 1% this coming year, because I'm not planning on selling it right now. And that's not. Even if it doesn't sell for way more than I bought it, I'm still making money in so many other ways. And it was just kind of a crystallizing week. I would say.

Yeah. As I did this, I would totally agree. I would totally agree. You know, anybody who thinks having your mood determined by the stock market on a daily basis or maybe an hourly basis, that's just no way to live, I have never understood that. I remember it really hit me one time when I was in Newport Beach. I was having lunch quite a while ago, was maybe 2003 or four with an executive with a big real estate company who was trying to buy my real estate company. He took me to lunch and was chatting me up. And on the way out of the restaurant, there was a TV and the bar area, and he stopped and wanted to see what the market was doing. Here's a real estate company guy, right? But he was all concerned about what the Dow was doing and what the S and P was doing and the Russell 2000. And I'm like, that's just no way to live. It's just silly. It's not investing. It's just gambling. And that's one of the problems with real estate is that one of these ways that these companies like Facebook, all these technology platforms, and the casinos used to make you addicted is a technique called variable rewards. The example is when you pull a slot machine, the reward is variable every time because you don't know what you're going to get. And that type of thing makes us addicted. Right? The variable reward, it's one of the addiction creation strategies, Right? And I guess, you know, when we look at the nature of any addiction, when you do whatever the activity is, whether it's you know, drugs, alcohol, sex, whatever your vice is. Right. And we've all, we've all got a few vices. Okay. No one is without some vice. Okay. It might just be addicted to being right or, you know, or temper or anything. Right. Or ocd. Right. My housekeeper's here right now. She has ocd. I love her every time she leaves my house. So organized. It's beautiful. And so the variable reward thing is beautiful for the stock market, for Wall street, because there are so many variable rewards all the time. Right. And you can see why that strategy helps investors or really gamblers and speculators become addicted to it. Right. The variable reward. You can see right there, it's a strategy, it's a technique. And all of the Wall street, financial media, cnbc, etcetera, they know how to push the buttons. They know what makes us addicted. That's, you know, it's a great example. Good point.

And then you have the, I was listening to other shows and they was talking about, it was a lot of the financial independence and people Talking about the 4% drawdown on their thing. And I was like, well, that's. The 4% will work.

Yeah.

In some cases.

You better explain what you mean. So that means you, you want to live. The idea is when you retire, you want to be able to live on a 4% drawdown. And ideally you're going to get more than 4% return on your wealth. Okay.

And that works as long.

And so you're gonna, you're gonna be ahead or at least be even and never spend your principal.

Right, right. And that works as long as you don't retire at the wrong time. Like my father in law retired, they thought they had enough. And then this was in 2007 or 2006. 2007. Then suddenly their portfolio cut in half.

Yeah.

If you're drawn down on 4% and suddenly your hundred percent becomes 50%, you can't draw down 4% and live well.

And let me, let me just make a caveat to that. You know, you said it's fine if you, as long as you don't retire at the wrong time. But let me tell you something, folks. You're hopefully going to live long enough after retirement into the wrong time. Okay. Meaning that there's going to be, there will be cycles during your retirement. Right. And, or just deals that go bad. And you know, the one that comes to mind is my ex girlfriend, her in laws, her, you know, mother and father in law invested with Bernie Madoff. And I think she said they had something like $2.7 million with him or something. And at least at the time she told me the story, I haven't asked her for an update on it. And they lost everything. Now, they might have gotten a little bit of that back with the unwinding the government did and selling off assets.

But nowhere near 2.7.

I'm sure it was pennies on the dollar. Kevin Bacon. We've all heard the six degrees of Kevin Bacon. He's married to, I think, Keira Knightley. Right? They basically lost everything with Bernie Madoff. The only thing they didn't lose was, was literally the money in their checking account and their home. They had a home with equity in it. That's it. It was like, okay, here's two famous actors and actresses, right? And they got to go back to work. Better get another movie gig, right?

And if you really want to live on 4%, you can find a single family home that'll return 4% cash on cash, pretty much any day of the week.

That's going to be pretty, pretty darn easy in our world. Thankfully. Thankfully, it will be okay. Hey, Adam, we gotta get to our guest and we'll have you back to. We got you coming back a few more times next week to discuss some things. But what didn't we announce? Jason Hartman University. Okay, now when I say that, that means two different things. And I just want to explain. There is. We call it jhu. There is a JHU live event that we do about once a year, maybe twice. And then there is a JHU or online portal that you can join and become a member of. And you know, it's really inexpensive. I think it's like 279 per year. What I want to tell you about that is that you should look in there because there is before you sign up for Meet the Masters, you can get a discount on your ticket. As the price crept up from the early birds, we started offering a discount code in there. So there is a promo code. Just go to jason hartman.com and at the bottom of the page you'll see that you can log into the JHU membership portal and you will see right there a discount for Meet the Masters. Okay. And it's a nice discount, so make sure you do that and Meet the Masters info as Jason hartman.com masters. That's coming up quick. I think we've got, I don't know, what is it? About 45 days away. So I hope you'll join us for that. If you have not purchased a ticket already, get one A lot of people coming are making family vacations out of it. Newport beach or Anaheim, Disneyland, whatever. Go to San Diego, very close by, SeaWorld, et cetera, you know, Legoland. You can make a spring break family vacation out of it. And I know many of you are doing that. You're bringing your kids, your nanny, the in laws. Many of you have told me that. So we look forward to seeing you there. JasonHartman.com Masters Adam, let's go to our guests.

One more thing we need to do before we say that in terms of deadlines, if you bought your ticket before, before the hotel was announced, you only have about one week left of the block.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, the discount room block. Thank you for that. And so you definitely want to get your ticket so you can get your hotel room. And by the way, if you bought your tickets and didn't get your hotel room reserved, please make sure you do that upon registration. As soon as you register, the hotel information is displayed on the thank you page and then it's also emailed to you as well. So you'll have the discount room block link and everything for that. So, Adam, now we ready.

Now let's get rent ready.

Okay, let's get rent ready. And that is our guest today. And we're going to talk about a little self management tool for you. So here we go. It's my pleasure to welcome Ryan Barone. He is CEO and founder of Rent Ready. Ryan, welcome. How are you?

I'm doing great. Thanks a lot, Jason. Happy to be here.

It's good to have you on the show. Where are you located?

I'm located in New York.

Fantastic. Well, I think it is long overdue and I think you'll agree with me that unlike other applications for various financial services tenants, when they shop for a rental property, they have to apply at each different place and they get their credit report run over and over. Their confidential financial information is exposed over and over. Landlords have inconsistent processes. You know, the tenants end up paying multiple application fees. And while this might seem like a good thing for landlords in a sense because they can make some money off all these applications fees, in a way, it really inhibits the market. I think there's a bigger, broader picture to look at. But, you know, tell us how you came to do this and what you think about my comments.

Yeah, absolutely. I think you hit it right on the head. I actually started from the tenant side myself, which was kind of how this all got started. I really went through that application process looking for my first apartment and Had a lot of trouble and at first thought it was me, which, you know, it might have also been. But as I did it a few more times, I came to realize that the process itself was really quite difficult. And the issue was that there, there wasn't really the right tool on both the tenant side and the landlord side. And a lot of those inefficiencies of repeatedly entering information on the tenant side like you were talking about there, as well as, you know, a host of other things that landlords that I started working with started to point out to me that could really be better to help both them and their tenants.

Okay, well, the listeners are investors and they're obviously looking to have their properties exposed to the greatest number of tenants to achieve the highest rental value. What's in it for them? I mean, I can definitely see how this is a convenience for tenants for sure. And like I said at the beginning, I do think what's in it for them is in the big picture is that it's such a hassle to go look for a rental property and apply it all these different places. It keeps people from doing it, you know, just because of the mere hassle factor. So there's a lot of friction there that is removed by apps like yours. And there are of course competing apps out there like we talked about, you know, Cozy offers, something like this and, and there are others. Talk to us from the landlord perspective a little bit more.

Right. So one of the big things is we're really mobile focused. So for a landlord not being tied down to a desk, but being able to do everything as well from their phone or a tablet as they can from a computer, and then in that, removing a lot of those inefficiencies. So whether you're out and about running around like a lot of, you know, real estate investors tend to be doing, or you're at a desk, you can, for example, you get a maintenance request come through on the system. A tenant can taken a video of that on their phone in the Rent Ready app, they can send that over, you can see that, see a video of how bad it is. You know, if you need to get out of bed at 11pm and go over there, or they can throw a ball under it for the night, you can deal with it in the morning. And for landlords, that really becomes a huge benefit to them in that realm where that's just one thing on notifications, but even on the applications, if you have a tenant that is entering their information in this and we save it for them so they don't have to keep re entering over and over and over again. When they come to view your apartment, they already have all of that in there or if they pre qualified we pre fill that on their application, cutting out more of that time that you're waiting for them to apply and actually come and view your apartment.

Okay, so does rent ready work with property managers or strictly self managers? You know, we have been on a push in recent years to help people learn how to self manage their properties long distance. I never thought it could be done until it happened to me by accident about, I don't know, eight, ten years ago where one of my property managers on a property 2,000 miles from my home got out of the business and I didn't get around to hiring a new one. And the first of the month a check shows up with a nice note from the tenant saying hey, the old manager says he's out of the business, I should send the money to you. Here's the money. And I just ended up self managing a property I had never seen and still have never seen and still own with a tenant that I've never met or spoken with from a long distance. And it was a great experience and now I've done it many times. And many of our clients have. You know, you can save the property management fees. A lot of times you'll do a much better job managing your property than the manager will sadly or you know, positively. I don't know which way you look at it. And then, and the, the other part of it is that many times, and this is a common misconception, people will say, well, you know, look, I want to be as passive as possible in terms of being an investor. I don't have a lot of time to deal with tenants. Interestingly, what we found is that it takes less time to deal directly with a tenant than it does to put a third party with ulterior motivations in the middle of the equation. I sort of liken it to this, Ryan. It's kind of like the government, right? I'm not a fan of a lot of regulation. I'm not a fan of minimum wage laws, for example. You know, if someone wants to work and someone wants to hire them, what businesses of the government to get in the way of that, right? You know, the same is kind of true in any third party relationship. Now sometimes a third party helps, sometimes they get in the way. And a lot of times property managers just get in the way. You know, regardless of cost or time, it's actually less time to not have the property manager, which is counterintuitive. So is your app working with managers or is it strictly self managers or either one?

You know, there are some of both. It's really designed more for the landlord that wants to do it themselves. But we found almost by chance that some property managers like to use it as well. But I do agree with you in a lot of ways there that a lot of people who own the property, it's their baby. It's almost like any other business that you're starting and doing yourself. It's kind of exciting in a lot of ways to be able to do it yourself. The issue is just having the tools there to make it possible.

Yeah, well, and now there are so many, many awesome tools like your app that really make this stuff a lot easier than it used to be in the old days. Okay, so we talked a little bit about the application component. What about the ongoing management? Like tenants can submit a repair request right through the app and then the landlord is. So there's no phone calls. Right. Tell us a little bit more about those functionalities.

Right. So I think one of the most amazing things about having the access to that app and all of the things that that translates to is like you talked about, so you said you had that long term rental, not having to jump on the phone to say, hey, you're late on rent, but to be able to in the app it tracks, or on the landlord side rather, it tracks in real time anything that's late and filters it for you automatically. So you're not even running a report for that. You're just seeing that at any given time. And if you can send a notification to the tenants in the unit, that comes up as a push notification on the phone, almost like a text message, which is a lot higher open rate. And it takes them right into the app, right where they pay. And so for the tenants there, it cuts out a lot of the hoops that need to be jumped through. And a lot of the time that a landlord is getting on the phone and calling. And on the other side, since we're tracking that through the app, even if the bank takes a day or two to process the actual funds, we're able to track in real time for the landlord that it has actually been triggered. So there is no, you know, check is in the mail excuse anymore or you're waiting to see if it's going to show up or not, you can see instantly, you know, which cuts out a lot of your management time there.

Fantastic, fantastic. Okay, so more of the functionality of ongoing management. So it processes payments, it handles repair requests. Tell us more about those things or anything else.

Sure. It also has. So pre qualifications is kind of one of those pretty unique things that we had in the system. And I have to say I have to credit a landlord that actually brought it up to us that said, I had a lovely couple come and look at my apartment. I really liked them. But as soon as they gave me some sort of financial information, I knew there was no way that I could rent them. And I wanted to. At that point, I had taken the time to even show them the unit myself. If there's anything that you could give me up front, it would save me a ton of time with this. And so that's really where we created the pre qualification, which is a quick 10 questions. And it gives a landlord an idea before the person comes in rent, if it's someone they might be able to rent to so that they can show it to more quality leads and spend the time on those people. And the nice thing there is that ties perfectly into then the application where then that auto fills into their application is sent in and they can even run tenant screens right within the app where we again pull all of that and remove all of that, you know, duplicate entry where you'd be copying something over from an application to a tenant screening or you know, the tenant then goes and verifies their identity right in the app. So it's a soft pull that pays for it. You see all of that online. You don't have stacks of paper. So once they're then in that unit, kind of the other two pieces besides the pre qualifications and applications and the maintenance and rent are really the notification side of things, which is really helpful and tracking the properties. So you know, if you have something becoming vacant in the next 60 days even we can show you. So you know that you need to maybe reach out to them to have them resign or go out and list that to get someone new in here, you know.

Okay, good. So it notifies them of an upcoming vacancy, Is that what you mean?

Right. So yeah, absolutely. So it tracks in real time for them any upcoming vacancies. And then on the notification side, the landlord can actually trigger notifications. So say you need to shut off gas on one morning. You could send out a notification to even multiple units saying, hey, there's going to be no gas from 8 to 10am on Monday. And you're not going around posting that on doors and you have an audit trail for yourself as well. This has been sent out.

Okay. Good, good stuff. Anything else people should know? And maybe it's not about your app. I mean, you have, I guess you have users in 40 states now, is that correct?

That's correct.

Okay, so it's catching on. You know, it's relatively new. This space is pretty exciting in my opinion for landlords and investors because it's really empowering them. We strongly believe in empowerment over here from the individual level. But you know, maybe anything else, and it doesn't have to be related to the app. It could be if you want, but just general best practices or thoughts on, on the marketplace.

I mean, just in general, I think that there's a lot of technology that's available now and becoming more and more even not just in the property management, but just anything related to your rentals, even if it's the marketing side or anything at all, that there's a lot of access there to tools that can help kind of reduce your time without really increasing kind of the costs associated with it that even five or ten years ago weren't available. So I think one of the most amazing things is on the landlord side is just to be, you know, looking around for what's new, what's out there and how you can make it easier on yourself because I think there's countless new ways.

Yeah, yeah. Any other apps or tools you want to mention besides your own that can help landlords?

I mean, I think some of the great ones are on the listing side as well in the, you know, Zillow and Trulia, all of those where you can put it out instead of sticking a sign on your, you know, your stoop. Especially if you're trying to do a long distance rental like you were talking about earlier. I think that, you know, there's more and more by the day for sure.

Yeah, yeah, there definitely are, you know, just simple stuff like Google, Google Maps, you know, looking at satellite views of properties and seeing all of that stuff. There's so many great tools out there and that's just a super basic one that's been around for a long time. But this whole new space of payment processing for tenants and apps that qualify tenants and so forth, it's, it's a pretty neat space. And then you combine this with the smart home functionality that's going on. I think it gets, I think it gets really interesting. Electronic locks, thermostats, monitoring of all sorts of really convenient and you know, nice amenities that people can offer to tenants, but also their amenities for landlords really because they keep their properties safe and so forth. So yeah, just a lot of good stuff going on in the industry. As I always say, you know, it's an amazing time to be alive and, and the technology really is amazing. Tell people where they can find you. I assume it's just rentready.com yep.

It's R E N T R E D I. You know, startups always have to spell things wrong.

Of course they do. Yes. To be cool and to get a URL. So it's rent ready and the ready is an I instead of a Y at the end. Okay.

So yeah, yes and no. A R E D I. Oh, R E D I.

Okay, got it, got it. Okay, good. RentReady.com and then of course, the mobile app is available. I would encourage landlords to take a look at it. You know, quite fascinating. And any closing, closing thoughts?

Yeah, I would just say, you know, I really encourage landlords to take advantage of all that technology at their hands and I'm excited to be a part of it. Maybe even help out some of the. Some of the landlords listing as well in their tenants.

Fantastic. Thanks for joining us, Ryan.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Jason.

Join us March 23rd and 24th for the 2019 Meet the Masters of income Property.

Let's break this down and look at some of the strengths of income property at an asset class. I found that this event is really.

Helpful because I'm totally a newbie to real estate investment and so I picked.

Up so much information. One of the great things about it is that it's so fragmented. Right. Embrace the fragmentation. I've actually been learning a lot about tax benefits to real estate and a lot of. I've been investing actually well over 10 years now and I learned a lot of new things today.

The other advantage of this weekend is networking, meeting new property managers, meeting new.

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Register now@jasonhartman.com Masters.

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