CW 441: Inflation, Deflation & Underemployment with Jeff Macke of Yahoo Finance & Author of 'Clash of the Financial Pundits'

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Welcome to Creating wealth with Jason Hartman. During this program, Jason is going to tell you some really exciting things that you probably haven't thought of before. And a new slant on investing fresh new approaches to America's best investment that will enable you to create more wealth and happiness than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who not only talks the talk, but walks the walk. He's been a successful investor for 20 years and currently owns properties in 11 states and 17 cities. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to financial freedom. You really can do it. And now here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show. This is your host, Jason Hartman. This is episode number441. Thank you so much for joining me today for episode 441. And gosh, I tell you, you know what really makes my day, it's getting great reviews and thank you for these nice reviews that I've had lately. I appreciate it. You know, I asked you guys, I finally actually asked for listeners to write some reviews on itunes or stitcher and you've been doing it. So thank you so much. I appreciate it. I just thought I'd share a couple and I don't know who you are all the time because a lot of these are, you know, sort of screen names like itunes handle names, but one is from CSTJKA in the US I don't know exactly where it says great ideas and fresh approach. Five star review. The first thing you notice about this show is the level of the guest. These are truly some of the best in the business and they are so willing to share their expertise with the audience. Then you find that the real lasting value of the podcast is the ability to share investment concepts in a way that's relatable to all. Great job, Jason. Keep it up. Thank you so much. You know, that's, that's what keeps me doing this stuff is these awesome, this awesome feedback and these reviews. So I appreciate that. And then we got, last week we actually got three more reviews. And so the next one, real quickly, this one comes from Jade and Jade is also in the US and actually do you know, you may not know this listeners, there are foreign versions of itunes for many, many different countries. I can't remember how many there are. So occasionally I go in and look at the foreign reviews too. And that's really cool. I did that, I don't know, about two months ago and I noticed we got a very nice review from someone in Japan. Another nice review from someone in New Zealand, I think it was. And another Australia. Two down under people. And both gorgeous places, New Zealand and Australia.

Wow.

Love it. Anyway, so I love these reviews. Thank you. Keep them coming. I appreciate it. So this one is from jade in the U.S. five stars. Love Jason's podcast. Awesome, informative interviews, tangible strategies and usable ideas. Right on. Then the next one is a great, well rounded financial education. And this is from R mc. So that's obviously a probably, you know, it's probably an abbreviated name. I don't know exactly. But anyway, it says, and this one's five stars also. Thank you very much. It says excellent information about real estate investing, but I really love the broad spectrum of financial expert guests. I'm learning so much about global economics. Keep it coming. Thanks, Jason, for this gift. And then the next review, and this is the last one I'll share with you, is from Jake Robert and it says, ah, snap, five star review here. And it says, what an awesome podcast. Jason gives you real world advice on investing. He breaks down the political and economic reasons why rental properties are the best thing since sliced bread. And I agree with that, by the way. They are. Although sliced bread isn't. Isn't a bad invention, I guess. I don't know, maybe we need to do a new saying for sliced bread. Is it better than Velcro? Is it better than the light bulb or the wheel? Well, it's better than sliced bread, at least. Anyway, going on here, it says, this was the first real estate podcast I stumbled upon in two years and I have purchased four rentals. Let me say that Jason is right on the money. I have learned more in financial education in, in this podcast than in grade school, high school, and two hazy years of college combined. This podcast changed my life. Thank you so much. Gosh, what awesome reviews. I really appreciate that, folks. Thank you very much. And please, if you haven't reviewed the show, even if you're not as positive as those, you know, go make a review. We'd love your feedback, so please do that. Just don't harass me about my political comments. That's the only thing I ask. You want me to be honest and tell you what I think, right? So try not to censor me, even if you disagree with me. Okay? All right. Our guest today will be from Yahoo Finance, it's Jeff Mackey and he has some really interesting concepts and things to share from the Yahoo Finance side. And you probably read their stuff out there, I'm sure. And so I think you'll like that. We're just gonna kind of dive right in. I've got a whole bunch of stuff stacking up to share with you. And I, I know I haven't had time to just do a podcast with just me, just yours truly, but I'm trying to get to that. And next week after the Birmingham Property tour, I'm going down to hang out at my mom's house in Gulf Shores, Alabama, and I will be doing a lot of recording there. We've got aunts and uncles and cousins coming in for the first Thanksgiving at her ridiculous southern mansion, which she could have rented and done a lot better just renting that place and not building it. But, you know, some people just want to build their own thing and that was her dream, so more power to her. But I'm not going to be recording any guest interviews next week and I've been recording tons of them yesterday, literally. I kid you not, I think I did 11 interviews. I was exhausted by the end of the day. That's a lot. As stimulating and interesting as 90% of the guests are, that was still a lot of interviews. So anyway, next week I'm going to be recording some monologue podcasts where it's just you and I. And by the way, also, I would love to have you call into the show. And this is super easy to do. We haven't had enough clients on or listeners on. You don't have to be a client. You could just be a listener. And if you've got questions, here is a super, a super easy way to handle those questions. All you need to do is go to this little quick link and take three to five seconds. You can probably do it that fast and just request an appointment with me. It's super easy. And I'll answer your questions and put you on the show. And it might be a 5 minute or 15 minute talk or, you know, whatever the conversation leads us. And that is simply Jason Hartman.com Jason. That's Jason Hartman.com Jason. Request an appointment. I will call you at the appointed time and we'll put you on the show. Answer your questions, talk about your experience, solve your problems and whatever we can do for you there. So we got to get some listeners on the show. We haven't really done that in a while. I haven't asked for it in a while. But I always love talking to our listeners and our clients. So please go to jasonartman.com Jason, request a time. I'll call you, we'll put you on the show. And in addition to that, a lot of you have been registering for Meet the Masters and that is coming up fast. It's less than two months away in January in Irvine, California, so be sure you get your tickets for that@jason hartman.com in the events section. And then of course, we have our Birmingham property tour this week and it is on Saturday. We will start Saturday morning at 9am and that of course is at the Westin Hotel. So we will start with the Creating wealth seminar on Saturday morning at 9am we'll go till 6pm and then we will have dinner at 7:30. So we'll take a break before dinner. You can freshen up and relax. And then we'll all go out to dinner together. And then Sunday morning will start also at 9am again. And then we will get on the bus and we will go tour properties and we will conclude Sunday by about 4pm and as far as weather, you know, it was warm in Birmingham, but it did get a little bit of a chill in the air like it is in so many places across the country, even here in Phoenix. Although it's sunny and gorgeous and the air smells crisp and wonderful for the fall, it's kind of a little chilly. But in Birmingham it's, let me see, Saturday forecast, 63 degrees is the high, 55 is the low. That's not bad at all, actually. Oh, and then Sunday, 72 degrees is the high and 55 is the low. So I think we're going to have some sort of decent weather. But you know, bring your coat, bring a hat. And on Sunday it does say we might get some rain. So if you have your travel umbrella, pack that in your suitcase and bring it along. And we're gonna have a great time this weekend. So I look forward to seeing all of you who are attending the Birmingham property tour and then in January for the rest of you for Meet the Masters. And let's get to our guest with Yahoo. Finance. Here he is. Hey, it's my pleasure to welcome Jeff Mackey to the show. He is host of breakout on Yahoo. Finance and an original cast member of CNBC's Fast Money and author of Clash of the Financial how the media influences your investment decisions, for better or worse. Jeff, welcome. How are you doing?

I'm a man doing well. Thanks for having me.

Well, good, good. Well, hey, it is great to have you. You just took a really interesting trip across the country. You saw Some interesting stuff. Give us a little feedback on your trip.

Well, I grew up in retail. My father was a retailer work at Target. And so we would go from Target to Target. And he taught me the best way to learn how a business is going, how people are doing, is to not be the guy who yells at the person at the service desk, but rather ask him just how you doing, whether it's your waiter or business owner, someone you're sitting next to, and really just listen to the problems, hear them out. And what I heard out there, it's this economy is booming and it's not in a bubble sense. It's not in a sense where the popular portrayal seems to be something along the lines of Mr. Burns or Snidely Whiplash preying on these 4, 99% people. I think this is a much more, much more broad based type of economic recovery. And I think people are doing a little better than anyone wants to admit. I'm not sure why that is, but I was really struck by the nature of the country disconnect between what we're reading about and the popular press and sort of the sense of optimism being expressed by the way people are investing and behaving in the economy itself. And it was actually quite encouraging. I think it's a great time to be a consumer right now in particular.

Yeah, yeah. Well, certainly, I mean, technology has pushed down the cost of everything. Well, not everything, but at least consumer products in terms of electronic and tech products with the tools we've got for this nearly frictionless global commerce system called the Internet. I mean, price discovery, comparison shopping, reading reviews, getting better products, manufacturers making better products because they're listening to customer feedback.

Yeah, and that loop is incredible, you know, and they talk about it a lot in retail and we just do it ourselves. But it extends so far beyond just that retail model. It extends into. I went across country, I had exactly one hotel reservation and that was at Disneyland because that's one of the few places on earth where you can't just walk in and figure out a way to go see it because it genuinely is sold out. But I tell you what, using just a smartphone, I was able to book hotels at boutique hotels that people have gone ahead and taken the economic risk to go build themselves and start to find locations and expose my family to stuff that we otherwise wouldn't have seen, seen as this one, five, ten years ago, simply because he couldn't find it. And so you both have price discovery where you're not going to get gouged, where you don't have to pay an arm and a leg. And also product discovery. And if you're facile with how you use the Internet and use this technology to your advantage, it's going to control the prices not just in terms of electronics, but in your hotel room, in your flight, in your, just in terms of the bang for the buck, you're getting what you pay for to the grid. We haven't seen in this really ever in history. And it's incredibly encouraging. If you look at it from a.

Big picture perspective, I would agree with you completely, Jeff. It is an incredible time to be alive. And I'll give you a personal example. About maybe five, six years ago I discovered Hotwire and I started using it and I discovered all sorts of new hotels I would have never known about, I would have never picked. And by golly, I'm staying at hotels now for half the price I used to pay. And you know, you could call that the economy and the financial crisis or you could call it technology or you could call it a blend of all the above. And the interesting thing about it is all these new incredible business models we're seeing. When it comes to Hotwire, for example, hotels can have a risk free way. And same with Priceline. I don't want to be, you know, non agnostic. I'm not promoting the brand, I'm just saying conceptually it's an interesting technology because it allows the hotel to give away a better price without putting it on their brand. They can hide their brand name until after you book the property and so they can go ahead and advertise a lower price without you knowing who they are until afterwards. An incredible idea only possible because of modern Internet oriented technology.

And, and if you marry that with some human interaction. And it's a funny story on Priceline because one of the ways I was able to use technology to my advantage was when Priceline actually had messed up one of the one reservation that we did have. And I found an alternative just because I was friendly and got to talk to the person at the front desk who happened to work in another hotel in the Venice area. It was extraordinary. And so when you merge this technology with a sense of optimism and just culturally, with just a little common sense, a little human interaction face to face, you you come up with just this. It's almost alchemy. It's just such an incredible time.

It is definitely amazing. And then let's talk about the ride sharing opportunities, you know, with companies like Lyft and Uber and the rest of them. I Mean, you know, we're putting to work assets that have just been dormant, whether they be people, assets and human resources or cars that were sitting in garages before are now being used, you know, and so it's just so much more efficient. It really, really is incredible. And we ain't seen nothing yet as the old. I mean, the next five years are just going to blow all of our minds with biotech and nanotech.

And if you think about the inefficiency out there, it's when they put the price tag, I think it was 17 billion in Uber's last round. And people said, well, that sounds outrageous. But if you think about the economic inefficiency, just if you fly into where I'm in Manhattan in jfk, you've got a line of several hundred people deep waiting for cabs. You've got a dozen cabs waiting there and they're all flowing through one dispatcher standing centrally located. That's the same business model they had 50 years ago. Literally the exact same model. It's wildly inefficient. You're wasting millions of dollars every single day just standing there. And we suddenly just created this app where not only does that work at jfk, but you're also creating markets where you can't go outside and hail a cab in the vast majority of those country. It's just not something that you can do to. You just can't get a ride. You can't hail a cab, you can't call a cab. It's not. We don't live in that. There's probably Chicago, New York, la, or maybe the three cities where you can walk outside and Kayla cab from the curb. Well, now all of a sudden you've opened that up to any market in the United States through this Uber Lyft type of model. It's incredible. It's light years from where we were.

It is a light year advance. Let me take the pessimistic side for a moment though, because you know, we hear, you know, all of this bad news. We hear about the unemployment rate and the underemployment rate, which means, you know, people with college degrees and massive student loan debt now topping a trillion dollars, possibly the next bubble. I'd love your comments on that. They're delivering pizza, working at Starbucks, driving an Uber car. I'll give you a great example. I was in an Uber car a few weeks ago and I always ask the drivers, do they do this full time? What's their background? What did they do before? I'm always curious about that as you are. And this guy said he was an investment banker, he worked on Wall street, and here he's driving an Uber car, and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, our economy is not allocating resources very well, is it? This guy's got a master's degree.

Well, I don't know. Having worked with a lot of investment bankers, he's probably adding more societal value.

Fair enough, fair enough. I'll agree with you there.

But I hear you on the underemployment and it's interesting. It's one of those things that's hard to define. I would never want to hire someone who didn't think they were underemployed because you always want that sense of ambition and upward striving. But we do need a societal rethink on how we go about and what the goal is of our college education. I'm not sure how much of a value you're going to place on some of the softer sciences. I was a psych major with a film studies double major type of construct out of college, and I'm not sure those have both served me relatively well socially and in a lot of different ways. But I'm not sure what value they themselves have in terms of what job you should be able to just be entitled to after that. I think that the real issue for the culture is whether or not you're. It's not whether or not your college degree is going to get you entitled to earn a living at a certain amount of money, but whether or not your hard work and your ability to add economic value is going to get paid. And as long as it's not a success situation where you can't find a job if your goal is to make money, you're unable to do that. I think we're okay. There are some jobs that simply are never going to pay that well because the capitalist system doesn't benefit them that way. And that's really where the question is. But we're giving out so many college degrees, so many more people are going to college and they're graduating, and they're simply not coming out with skills that are necessarily commercially applicable. And it's a huge problem, a growing problem, but it's not one that I think tips over the economy. Despite the fact that it's staggering sums that are at work there, there's enough money and enough sort of wherewithal that we're not going to put ourselves out of business through our own student debt.

Okay, so what's going to happen with that student Loan debt because it's not dischargeable. I mean, are these kids really going to just be indentured servants? You know, they, they are underemployed. I mean, you know, in many of them are.

Well, it's, they are, it's a matter of what you want to do. Are they able to find jobs? Are they choosing to work towards their passion or towards just the commercial application? You know, you can't. The American dream is not to get paid a ton of money doing exactly anything that your heart desires. The truth is you got to put some elbow grease into it and work. And so it's not indentured servitude. But if my first job out of college was I worked at Macy's and I sold men's shoes, I didn't love that job, I'll be honest with you. And so I worked hard to get out of that job, to be upwardly aspirational. Now it worked out okay for me, but it took some effort and that was a hard adjustment. And that was something that is just part of the training society. I'm not sure what the answer is to the ugly side of this capitalist system. But you, you know what, it's going to take work and it's going to take something that people are going to have to not necessarily live a lifestyle where they're going to be an NFL quarterback or live their dreams. They're going to have to produce some stuff that they wouldn't necessarily dream about with the idea that maybe it'll pay off over time as they work their way towards what their vision is for themselves. Not necessarily as a 22 year old, but someone when they're 45 or 20, 50 years old.

You know what's fascinating to me, Jeff and I just, I have not reconciled this. I'm just going to admit to my audience, I think about it all the time and I want to know, I want to have a prediction for what this is going to mean because I think it's going to be huge. And that is the area of robotics. I recently watched a 10 minute video, it was very interesting that talked about how, you know, 45% of the jobs nowadays can be automated within the next several years. And one of the main ones, you know, we talked about Lyft and Uber is transportation. The dry. We're on the heels of a driverless car and that just changes the game in so many ways. They had one of those driverless semi trucks here in, in Arizona, I guess recently, you know, they demoed it in Germany and you know, the guy just sits there while the truck drives itself and delivers things all over the nation, you know, or all over the world, I should say. Transportation is a huge area of employment. I mean, you know, can. Can these cab drivers retool and do something else, or are they just going to be like, permanently unemployed? I don't know.

I don't either. There isn't an answer. But that's not. It's important for the audience and for you and I to remind each other that these are not necessarily new problems. The printing press put a lot of people out of work as well. And I don't say that lightly. You know, it's the cotton gym. All these inventions have displaced skilled labor. What was skilled labor in the past? And this has been a constant evolution in terms of robotics.

And it's always, it's always been positive. And, you know, computers put a lot of people out of work, but then they're. Then we needed people to work on the computers and. But I don't know with these robots, they say they'll maintain themselves and fix themselves. And, you know, we're looking at it like this future. Maybe they'll just take over the world.

Well, that's the scary part. Them turning on us is actually much more scary than them putting us completely out of work. The one thing the futurists missed is you picture sort of the George Jetson lifestyle where basically folks were inventing labor. The idea that when you watch those really, really retro kind of futurist predictions from the early 60s, when housewives would sit around and dishwashers would give them so much free time, they wouldn't know what to do with themselves. Well, we've managed to figure out things to do with ourselves all along. So I think as long as we keep the robots from turning on us, it should work out to our benefit.

When Elias Howe invented the sewing machine, women complained because they wouldn't have anything to do, you know, how would they make themselves useful in society? Right. And it seems as though they worked that out. But there's always a transition time, you know, and this doesn't happen all in one day. You know, it's not like they put up the Berlin Wall. Right. You know, this is a gradual evolution, but I don't, you know, it's a pretty big deal. I mean, it's a pretty big deal. But yes, those predictions have always been there. I agree with you completely.

And ultimately the ugly side of them touched on a few different ways. But this is kind of the capitalist system. And you take. If you look at cabs. And because we've spoken about transportation, drivers in particular, and you see the way the cab industry is fighting the Ubers of the world. It. It's telling. And they're speaking of really expediting their own extinction by kind of demonstrating just how inefficient they really are and how antiquated that system is. And, and as individuals, what you have to do is be thinking ahead of that. If you're a cab driver out there and you're protesting Uber by. By fighting against it to protect your.

Rate, that you're a dinosaur.

You're a dinosaur. And you just, you gotta know, you got, as the gambling adage says, if you don't know who the sucker at the table is, the sucker is you. You better know, dinosaur, or else you're in big trouble.

Yeah, that's great advice. Well, talk about the markets, if you would, for just a moment and, you know, tell us what you think about, you know, the overall economy. I mean, we've certainly been talking about that, but, you know, maybe just some of the more specific indicators, if you want the stock market, the real estate market, whatever you like.

Well, you know, I think the stock market has been one that has just been feasting on the skepticism for so long. And in my game and in the book the Clash of the Financial Pundits, we talk a lot about sort of the profits of doom, because it's been. This has been a very easy market to criticize and badmouth for the last five years, since the stock market bottomed. I think it was March 9th of 2009, when the S&P 500 was 666. Very demonic. Bottom. It's been very easy to criticize this and call it artificial to say the Federal Reserve is printing money, that the government is, in essence, lifting itself up off the ground by its own years, which is kind of impossible. And if you bet that way, you lost and you lost big. And so there's been this bifurcation of investors for people who have been part of this market and have been benefiting from it with some sense of distrust, because we have had two major success, significant crashes in the last 15 years, which is not to be ignored. And you have people who simply have sat it out from the sidelines and just bet on the sky falling over and over again. And the truth is the sun's going to explode someday, but it's a lousy bet. And so betting on this doomsday scenario is always going to be just. There's no place to cash in. And so in terms of the stock market, I continue to be long stocks, I continue to be nervous about it. So many things can go wrong. But ultimately the economy has struggled through. Corporate earnings look decent, not terrific. Balance sheets are better by far than they have been in ages. Companies literally can't figure out what to do with themselves in terms of how to put money to work. And I think if the government is sort of just the right level of screwed up right now that they're not able to implement anything, which is kind of keeping it out of the way. But I think that's one of the bigger impediments we have to job growth in this country because I think we're going to start insourcing some jobs that we've been outsourcing to foreign nations for years and that's going to provide a real tailwind for us.

I agree.

We can get off our way.

You know where a lot of that tailwind is going to come from in manufacturing? From 3D printing, small, short run artisan type manufacturing. Chris Anderson's got a great book, it's called Makers, you may have read it. And the future of 3D printing. What an awesome technology. I mean that's just going to be going to put a lot of people back to work in the US it's going to be insourcing and onshoring labor. I agree with you there. So that's a fascinating one. Okay, so inflation or deflation in the future, what do you think?

You know, it's. I think we've been fighting deflation and no one wants to use the word because the Federal Reserve and the powers that be simply have no solution for deflation. And as a result we're kind of in this environment where we've been printing so much money and we really don't have either. We've ended up with this perfect tension between two horrific outcomes. One of uncontrolled inflation, which has been supposed to be manifesting itself for years now and yet hasn't back gotten a foothold simply because the economic cycle's overpowering it. I think we're. Can I choose flation between inflation and deflation?

Justflation?

Yeah, between one and a half percent works for me. The, the, you know, I just don't see the prices rising the way, the way some of the real skeptics out there do. And I think that as long as those jobs, you know, it's. We've been discussing a lot of nice trends. If you're insourcing jobs, if you have economic growth, you have corporations with decent balance sheets. I'm not sure how you end up with a deflationary outcome. And with the information age working for our benefit. I'm not sure how you get rampant inflation when you have a nice, nice capitalistic check and balance system in place in terms of price discovery. And so it's a pretty decent scenario. Now is that perfect? No, you know, of course we're going to have outlying events, but it's. We just haven't seen that inflation that you're supposed to get from all that money printing. I don't think that if the folks were wrong on inflation for the last five years that you change your doomsday scenario to this deflationary environment makes it any more valid. Again, sometimes the sky just doesn't fall. If you go outside and look up, it'll turn out the sky is still aloft.

In other words, it doesn't fall in either direction, the inflation or deflation. It's just sort of a status quo type of Phillips curve model where it's just, you know, moderate in, you know, target inflation, which the Fed always has because deflation is something that is tough to stop that. I mean, I guess they can just print money into oblivion, especially when they've got the reserve currency. But it's interesting because the government is so screwed up and every indicator would indicate inflation right. In terms of a monetary perspective. But technology is so amazing that it allows, it empowers the consumer, like you say, with massive amounts of price discovery literally in the palm of their hand. Okay. And that is a strong force to keep inflation in check, isn't it?

Well, and some of the ways that they've been printing money went to some of the corporations themselves and with their balance sheets, they literally just started accumulating cash. Which shows that it's harder than you think to have this uncontrolled inflation created just because people have cash. It's the velocity of money. And trying to get people to spend money when they don't want to is pretty difficult, whether it's a corporation or an individual.

So the interesting thing is investing for it though. See, in my eyes you got to prepare for either scenario, right? So if it's inflation, then commodities and long term, low fixed rate debt is going to be an asset to you in my eyes. Rental properties, income properties. And if you have deflation, it's going to be, you're just going to be looking for yield at anywhere you can get it. So you got to have dividend paying stocks or cash flowing assets. All the gold bugs are going to be, you know, good luck eating your gold.

Right, right.

You know, I mean, they're going to be dying and they have been. They've been wrong for so long. I mean, all of these doomsayers, you know, I remember Howard ruff in the 70s, and then I had him on my show a couple of years ago. And it's like, I don't know, maybe he's finally gonna be right, but I'm not seeing it yet. At least, you know.

Well, and I write about this in the book. There's. There's a couple ways you can make a living as being a pundit. One is to make people money, which is pretty hard to do. And the other, the other is just to scare them because it always.

Right, that would be the legitimate way. Make sure money. Sure.

And that's, you know, part of what's motivated me is I've enjoyed.

Kind of.

Trying to keep people out of the rat traps of finance. And I like participating. And I had a hedge fund and I like that work, but I like working with larger audiences more. And trying to kind of explain Wall street while still participating in it is much more gratifying to me. But what you see as part of that is you see the industry that is just selling fear because it always sounds so smart, it always sounds like you're so in the know that this currency is going to collapse. Even though the argument doesn't make a ton of sense. When you get down to sort of the nuts and bolts of how your gold bricks are going to buy bread, bnp, that never made much sense to me. But at the same time, boy, they've sold a lot of newsletters, a lot of books and a lot of gold mining, gold chip certificates, all the entire industry of the doomsday scenario. They printed money for everyone except for their investors.

Right? Yeah, well, that's true. I would agree with you there. And I tell you, those guys seem like they're right because they're just doing the math. And this is not just about math. There's way more going on in the world than math, okay? And so you can talk about, you know, $17 trillion this and that and, you know, 60 to 200 trillion in entitlement obligations over the next two decades. And yeah, fine, but it's not math. This is not just about math. It's about technology and it's about battleships and nuclear missiles and the reserve currency and, you know, throwing one's weight around. I'm not saying that's right. I'm just saying it is.

Hey, never Forget that economics is a social science. Yeah, right, Social science. We're not doing moonshots here. We're trying to figure out how people.

Are going to behave. Yeah, very good point. Very good point. Well, hey, this has been a great discussion, Jeff. And give out your website, tell people where they can find you and read your great material.

Head over to Yahoo. Finance and there every day under Yahoo. Originals and you can find my work along with a bunch of other contributors. We got kind of an all star cast and so I would encourage everyone to make it their homepage and check us out.

Good stuff, good stuff. Well, Jeff Mackey, thank you so much for joining us today.

Absolutely, it's my pleasure.

I've never really thought of Jason as subversive, but I just found out that's what Wall street considers him to be.

Really? Now how is that possible at all?

Simple. Wall street believes that real estate investors are dangerous to their schemes because the dirty truth about income property is that it actually works in real life.

I know. I mean, how many people do you know, not including insiders who created wealth with stocks, bonds and mutual funds. Those options are for people who only want to pretend they're getting ahead.

Stocks and other non direct traded assets are a losing game for most people. The typical scenario is you make a little, you lose a little and spin your wheels for decades.

That's because the corporate crooks running the stock and bond investing game will always see to it that they win. This means unless you're one of them, you will not win.

And unluckily for Wall Street, Jason has a unique ability to make the everyday person understand investing the way it should be. He shows them a world where anything less than a 26% annual return. Disappointing.

Yep. And that's why Jason offers a one book set on creating wealth that comes with 20 digital download audios. He shows us how we can be excited about these scary times and exploit the incredible opportunities this present economy has afforded us.

We can pick local markets untouched by the economic downturn, exploit packaged commodities investing and achieve exceptional returns safely and securely.

I like how he teaches you how to protect the equity in your home before it disappears. And how to outsource your debt obligations to the government.

And this set of advanced strategies for wealth creation is being offered for only $197.

To get your Creating Wealth Encyclopedia Book 1 complete with over 20 hours of audio, go to jasonhartman.com store if you.

Want to be able to sit back and collect checks every month just like a banker. Jason's Creating Wealth Encyclopedia series is for you. This show is produced by The Hartman Media Co. All rights reserved. For distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www.hartmanmedia.com or email mediaartmanmedia.com Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own and the host is acting on behalf of Platinum Properties Investor Network, Inc. Exclusively.