CW 454 – Jason Hartman – Land Contracts For Real Estate Investors

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Welcome to Creating wealth with Jason Hartman. During this program, Jason is going to tell you some really exciting things that you probably haven't thought of before and a new slant on investing fresh new approaches to America's best investment that will enable you to create more wealth and happiness than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who not only talks the talk, but walks the walk. He's been a successful investor for 20 years and currently owns properties in 11 states and 17 cities. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to financial freedom. You really can do it. And now here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show. This is your host, Jason Hartman. This is episode number 454 and this is a good episode. I'm just telling you. I'm going to talk in the intro portion about with, with one of our Meet the Masters speakers who's who's flying into Southern California to talk to you about an exciting creative real estate opportunity and a low management opportunity, more of a really not even management, I'll call it, loan servicing opportunity where you can still get a very high yield on your. I'm telling you folks, you've probably been to a lot of our Meet the Masters events before. I know we have a lot of regulars listening to the show and a lot of new people who are thinking about coming. This is going to be the best, most creative, not the same old thing Meet the Masters event we've ever done. And this is our 16th annual meet the Masters event. So you're in for a real treat. Hey, Justin, welcome. How are you?

I'm great, thank you. How are you doing?

Good, good. Hey, it's good to have you on and thank you for doing the intro portion of the show with me. And I was introduced to you by a good friend of mine, Matt, who I've been talking to for quite a while about, you know, the possibility of doing business together because he is just, and I'm sure you agree with me since he's a mutual friend. He is just such a creative, innovative guy in the real estate space and you know, I'm really slow to come around. I'm sure my regular listeners all know this. I'm, I am like the ultimate skeptic. The older I get, the more cynical and skeptical I get. Maybe. And, and I'm really kind of slow to come around to some of these more. I'm going to call it creative forms of real estate investing. But this one I really like and, and I'm so glad that Matt introduced us. And I know that you've been doing business with Matt for quite a while and, and you've had some good success doing business. And we'll probably have Matt on the show too, on a future episode. But you specialize in something that's pretty interesting. And it is something I actually learned about as a kid, as a little kid, when my grandfather, who owned a. Well, I guess not a. By today's standards, not a big farm. But for individual tone, it was a big farm in upstate New York. He was a farmer and had, I don't know, something just. Or 400 acres of farmland and you know, he did dairy farming and agricultural and grew all the usual crops that you'd suspect in upstate New York. And I remember when I was a child hearing that, you know, my mom telling me that he sold the farm and I said, oh, wow, how did that work or something? I actually asked like a sort of a bright question as a kid, I guess, I guess I was just meant to be in real estate. And so my mom explained to me how he sold it and she said, well, he sold it on a land contract. And I remember saying, mom, what's that? I mean, I don't know how old I was. I might have been 11 or something. I really don't know. Maybe I'll ask my mom and maybe she'll remember. But, you know, I remember hearing her explain this to me the way a land contract worked. And ever since then I've been fascinated by it. I've known a lot of people who have, you know, over the years been in the land contract business and it's otherwise known as a contract for deed. And the opportunity I want you to just give our listeners a taste of today because you'll be speaking and giving all the details that Meet the Masters in January. And maybe we'll have Matt there and his business partner there to talk about how they've, you know, they've made a lot of money in this side of the business and just, just talk a little bit about it, if you would, and you know, wherever you want to start. And I'll ask you some questions to clarify for the listener.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's definitely a very unique way of doing things. And you know, I have been in the real estate business for, it's well over 10 years now. And I was like the Traditional real, real estate investor, where I'm just buying rental properties or buying for closer foreclosures, hanging onto them as rental properties. And I built up a pretty large portfolio actually, and had a lot of rentals. And rentals I thought were the best thing out there. I mean, I thought, this is great. It's residual income. All the things that you probably hear every day.

Well, and I say every day, I love rentals. I think they're great. But there are some other things that are pretty great too, you know, that aren't exactly rentals. They're a little, They're a twist on the good old rental property side of the business.

Exactly, exactly. And, and actually that's when my eyes were first open to land contract, when I was starting out in real estate, which was right around 2001. And I ended up buying properties from investors on land contract. And I, you know, would just have to keep trying to negotiate to get somebody to do a land contract with me because at the time I was a young kid and couldn't go to a. And every bank says, well, you don't have credit. That's, that's good, but it's bad, you know, And I didn't understand that at the time. Being young, I thought, that's good, I don't have debt. Well, come to find out, I couldn't really do business without that. And so my, the option was going to land contract and I was buying a land contract, made some money, flip some properties, and you know, that's what actually launched my real estate business and giving that first opportunity.

Okay, so just before you go on, I want to explain to our listeners what a land contract is. When you sell a property, of course, there are many ways you can sell a property or many ways you can buy a property. You can be on either side of the transaction, of course, and you know, you can pay cash for the property, you can finance the property through a conventional bank. You can have the seller finance the property for you by carrying, having them carry a note entrusted or a mortgage, and that's known as carrying paper. And in all of those cases that I just explained, when the property is sold and the buyer takes possession of the property and they don't have to move in, they take possession as a investor too. Okay? So they own it. Basically, the deed is transferred to them at the time of closing, maybe 30 days after they agree to the deal. Okay. With a land contract, or what's called also a contract for deed, that's a little different because in that case it's like a seller financing the property for the buyer, but it's actually, I would argue, more secure and probably in most cases. And it varies state by state a little bit as to how these all work. But you don't actually transfer the deed to the buyer until the last payment on that loan is made. Or it's really not a loan, it's a contract. It's a contract for the deed. So until they make all the payments to pay for that property, the deed is not transferred until the very end. So it makes gives the seller or the holder of that land contract or contract for deed more power and more leverage because ownership has not yet been transferred. In my eyes, it's really kind of the best of all worlds for the person who holds that land contract or contract for deed. And that's what my mother had explained to me at a very young age, maybe 11 years old, about the way my grandfather and grandmother sold their farm and moved to another much smaller farm that they later, you know, retired in and so forth in upstate New York. And, and, and that was just, I guess, one of my very first educations on real estate.

Right? Yep. No, you're exactly correct with that description. You know, one difference or one thing very different than the mortgage side of things is on land contract it's very common to see a three, four or five year balloon. So it's not most of the time it's not meant for a long term, 20 or 30 year note like you would see from a bank. So really the goal is to help somebody through that transition period of getting, whether it's their credit fixed or say they haven't been in their job long enough, can't quite get approved, those types of things to where they can establish getting in a property and being there during that transition period to get those fixed and then refine and then the ultimate goal is pay that off or refinance it within that period of time of that balloon.

So what it does, like some seller financing is it, it basically offers a way for people that can't do conventional financing, a way for them to get into the property. So when you first started out 10 years ago as a real estate investor and you didn't have any credit established, that's what you did is you, you bought properties this way and now you sell properties this way, right?

Correct. Absolutely. Yup. So that's when I, that's when I first learned about that. And as time went on, I didn't think much of it. I ended up going into the rental, more of the rental Business and at one point had around 80 single family properties. What really struck me though was when I got into a snowmobile accident and I couldn't work for quite a while and held up in bed, I remember thinking, okay, I have a wife and kids and if I wasn't able to go back to work, my rental business would start falling apart because I knew that if I wasn't there managing it and being very hands on, my wife wouldn't be able to do it. And therefore the return on investment would start dwindling without me being there. Hands on all the time. And I, by default, I had probably four or five land contracts at the time. And when I started just evaluating my whole business, I had realized that those land contracts were creating roughly double the return on investment as what the same dollar amount investments as a comparable rental was. And that's kind of when the light bulb went on and I flipped the switch and started going almost full time into the land contract model because of seeing the.

What did you do then? So what you did is did you sell some of your own properties or how did you, how did you switch sides of the table, if you will?

Correct. Yeah, actually I started selling off all the rental properties and you know, now I kick to myself, wish I would have hung onto those for a little while longer.

But there's an honest answer. Good.

Yeah, absolutely. I wish I would have. Some of them I kept and then sold on land contract as a tenant or lease would expire. So over the course of probably about three years I was able to transition completely then over into the land contract model and still do some lease options. But that is my primary focus is land contracts. And some of those things that I saw that helped me to alleviate my time and liability and everything else on the rental side was things as simple as a tenant calling you for a leaky faucet or that their water heater wasn't working or anything like that. Those calls never, I noticed, never came from the land contracts. And of course they don't, do they? Those people have, have an interest, home ownership interest and it's not the landlord's responsibility, but it's just a totally different mindset.

Right, right.

If that makes sense.

And so that's one of the things that a lot of investors like about doing lease options or rent to own deals on their properties is that they get that tenant moving their mindset and you know, it moves them legally too, but it gets them moving their mindset from tenant. Like, you know, I'm a renter, I don't care about the condition of the property, I'm gonna just, you know, live it up and have parties and destroy it. You know, to the concept of, you know, I mean, how well does everybody treat the rental car right? Not as well as if they own it from the mind, it switches them to the mindset of being an owner. So they actually start fixing up the property. I mean, they are an owner. Technically. They. Well, well, they're not really an owner. I mean, maybe you can explain that. I mean, they don't have the deed, so what are they. They've got a contract to get that deed if they fulfill it.

So that's very. A very good question. They, they are the owner on record with, you know, the city assessor's office or the county records and state to state, this is different. We call it here, it's the Register of deeds office. The. What they are is they have equitable title, so they are in ownership, but they do not hold the deed. And so therefore it's limited. It's a limited ownership, if that makes sense to you. They can't go and put a lien, they can't go borrow money against the property, for example, unless they were to refinance and pay you off because you hold the deed. So it's a very limited ownership. They can't get a line of credit against the property or, you know, anything along those lines. But as far as, you know, liability standpoint, if they had a dog and it bit somebody, they're guess who's getting sued? It's going to be those people in that property. For example, the landlord is removed from the picture or the seller is removed from the picture upon that sale.

Right.

Does that make sense?

So really. And there's a lot more detail to this, folks, so, you know, we will discuss it, of course, in depth at Meet the Masters. You'll have a chance to ask lots of questions and so forth. And also not just ask questions in terms of when you're in front of the room talking to people, but at, you know, at lunches and at dinner and, you know, sharing meals together and so forth. So that'll be a good time to talk this through. But, you know, it's really the investor, the, the person listening to this, wanting to invest in something, is getting more into the loan servicing business in a way than in the landlording business. Right?

Correct.

Yeah. Let's talk about the kind of yield they can get because one of the things that I've been negotiating with you for a couple of weeks is a discount on the face value of these. And then, you know, we have to. We have to just mention. And of course, we're going to go in depth on this too, at the event in just about a little more than three weeks away at Meet the Masters. But the idea of default. Okay, so. So what happens here? When can you hear my dog walking around listeners?

I can't, actually.

Okay, you can't. You can't hear it. So probably the listeners can't either. But it's funny, she doesn't do that until I start doing an interview. She'll just lay there. And then when I do an interview, she starts walking all around and prancing with her nails on the hardwood floors. So I always think the listeners can hear that. Glad you can't. Anyway, what was I saying? Oh, yeah, Loan servicing business. So let's talk about the yield. Let's not talk too much more about the mechanics. I want to talk about the yield. Okay, so I've been negotiating with you for a couple of weeks and with Matt as well, our mutual friend, to get our investors a discount off the face value of these contracts where they can buy them for about 85% of the face value. Okay. So if there's a land contract for, say, $50,000, just to use a nice round number, they're buying it for 87 or 85% of that price, right?

Correct.

Okay. And, you know, every deal might be a little different. I'm just saying that's a guideline. I'm not saying every year will be exactly 85%. Okay. But my calculator says that they're buying that land contract for $42,500. Now, the rate. What is the rate? You're generally charging the interest rate on the land contract to the buyer of the property.

The interest rate is never below 9% unless they have some ridiculous amount of money they're going to put down on the property. But it is pretty much standard on every contract. It's going to be between 9 and 10%.

Okay.

So really, we never call it 10. It's 9 and 9.9.

Yeah. Okay, so it's between 9 and 10%. Usually. That's the. And then there's the face value of the land contract, and then there's the discount. So what is the investor's yield likely to be if the land contract performs as expected, as is outlined in the contract? Are they getting about what, 13, 14% annually on it?

Correct. Yup. And that changes a little bit. And that's going to depend upon, you know, does that does that buyer cash it out within, you know, three years, four years, five years? And I'm not, and I'm not going to say every buyer is going to cash it out within their bloom period. There's buyers I've had to work with. And I said, you know what, you paid on time every time you've applied for a couple loans you couldn't quite get yet. Let's keep working on that.

And that was the loan. And when you say they applied for loans, they applied for conventional loans to refinance the land contract and pay the investor off, right?

Yup. So there's two different ways to look at it. And they're going to. It'd be an average return on investment of around 12%. That is not factoring. If that buyer is to refinance and then that investor is able to make that spread of what that discount was and what the balance is, the return on investment goes up from there. And that's going to be based upon the time frame of when that particular land contract buyer refinances or pays off that property, if that makes sense.

Right. Yeah, it does. So it makes a big difference. And the yields can be pretty, pretty nice here, right?

Yes, absolutely, yes. I haven't been able to find really anything to beat it. And that's the reason why I've based my whole business model around this.

Well, I'll tell you what will beat it. Okay. And we're going to have some tax experts at Meet the Masters. Of course, we're going to have CPA Diane Kennedy. One of the things is going to be a question of how is it the. How is the transaction handled from a tax perspective, because technically the investor still owns the property until the deed is conveyed. But the IRS doesn't necessarily look at it that way. So we're going to talk about that. But I can tell you what will beat it is just buy and hold rental of the property. Because if the property appreciates in value, you know, the holder of the land contract doesn't participate in that. Okay, sure. So, but it's gonna vary.

It's absolutely gonna vary on area of appreciation, all that, all those types of things. Absolutely.

No question. But here's who this is really for. This is for the investor who wants to get a more passive yield on their property. Nothing is totally passive, listeners. You know my opinion about that. I don't think a passive investment exists. Okay, Right. And you've heard me talk about that in the past. I don't think investing in a mutual fund is passive. I Don't think even investing in the bank is passive because you've got to be very attentive to inflation and the value of your money declining. Okay? So even that is not a passive investment, although most people would say it is. But this is much more passive than being a landlord, probably in most cases. Now, now the last thing I want to leave you with or I want to leave our listeners with is the ugly part of this. And that is what if the person doesn't pay as outlined in the land contract or the contract for deed? What if they don't pay? I mean, does the investor get screwed? Do they lose money or might they have some extra profit?

Actually, sure, yeah, it's going to, it's really going to vary on a case by case situation. The process of this, you serve them or you mail them a land contract forfeiture notice, they have 15 days to pay from the date of that letter. So if I have someone that hasn't paid by the 10th, I like to get that out right away. That way they know you mean business and it's putting something on their mind to make sure they pay you right away and you mean business. 15 days goes by and they still have.

Now we're at the 25th of the month.

Yes, okay, correct. Then at that point that's when you turn it over to your attorney. I have plenty of attorneys you could work with in this matter that are experts with it. They're going to, they're going to start the process with a court system. Upon that, giving that to the attorney. My land contracts, they all state that buyer's going to pay any type of legal fees. So if they do want to redeem, they're paying for that. But the attorney is going to give that to the court system, start the process within a week, usually one to three weeks. They're going to schedule something where you're going to be in court or the attorney is going to be in court with that person. Whether they show or not is up to them.

They may not show. Yeah, a lot of times they just walk away just like a tenant.

A very similar situation as a landlord eviction. The difference is a landlord eviction is typically going to have seven to 10 days from the court date that they pay or get out. This has 90 days. So they have a 90 day redemption period to catch up and pay anything that's accumulated and in back payments out. So that is.

Now that sounds, that sounds long. People listening to this are going to say, well that's just like doing a foreclosure that takes a long time. Right. But here's the thing you got to remember for the investor to remember is that this person put 5,000 or maybe even $10,000 down on this deal. So it's not like a tenant where they just put up one month rent of maybe $1,000 for a security deposit. They've got some real skin in the game. It may not be as much as a bank would want the them to put down, a conventional bank, but a conventional bank is not going to charge them 9 or 10% interest either.

Right.

And a conventional bank is going to give them title immediately when they, when they buy the property in the loan funds. So. Or it's going to cause them to get title. The title doesn't come from the bank, it comes from the seller. But you know what I mean? And, and so, so they've got some real skin in the game here. So they're not as likely to just flake out and walk away like a tenant might be.

Right. You're absolutely correct on that. The default rate from what I used to experience with tenants versus land contracts is not even comparable. You know, most tenants, they're not going to have, you know, five grand, six grand, etc. To put down on a property. So somebody that's been astute and saved that up, they, they mean business. They want to own a house and they don't want to throw that away. So they really do fight for the property as far as putting that as first priority.

Okay, good, good. You can kick them out now. The question is how much will those legal costs be to, to enforce the land contract? You know, because you've done it before.

Yep.

And you know, you've got attorneys, you know, you can refer people to. How much does that cost?

Yeah, the contract that I have, I actually have a signed contract with a law firm and it's itemized and that's for me and all my clients. Jason, for example, you'd be able to participate in this and it's, it's a, it's a flat fee for the different steps of the process. Basically it's going to end up being around 450 to $650. And that depends if you do the initial paperwork or if you want them just to handle everything.

Yeah. So I'd say let them hand do everything. And that's cheap. I mean that's not much money. It's less than a foreclosure in the vast majority of places. I would would think that would probably run you quite a bit more Than that. So that's good.

Now.

450 to $650. And what happens if you take the property back? Now this, this land contract, buyer of the property, usually they move into the property and they're fixing it up, right?

Correct. Yep, that's correct, absolutely.

So they're doing some improvements. So in addition to their down payment, they have more skin in the game if they've improved the property and fixed it up.

Yup, that's correct. And that is a big difference. I haven't had to do many foreclosures or forfeitures. I'm sorry, Foreclosures. Totally different forfeitures on these. I used to do a lot of evictions. And I'll tell you what, I got properties back that would just make me so mad and just couldn't believe how somebody could, you know, to disfigure a property that we had all nice and renovated. But this. The ones that I've had to take back, I have not had that experience at all. I've had nobody that's gone and, you know, ripped out the furnace or done anything crazy. Like.

How many have you taken back?

I've personally taken back, I think five over the years. And I've done quite a few of these deals. Now I also work with a few other investors and they've each taken a few back. But you're talking out of hundreds of properties, it's been a much lower percentage than rentals.

Okay, so talk, if you would, then about the. What happens, Say you've taken the property back. You know, it hasn't been damaged greatly or anything like that. And that's all good news so far. I mean, you did lose some time, so you lost maybe three payments, which is no fun, you know. No, no landlord wants to lose three months of rent. Okay, but what, what happens after that and how might it actually in some cases benefit you as the investor rather than hurt you? You know, a lot of things. Sometimes there's a blessing in disguise.

Absolutely. And every time we've had to take a property back, we've been able to resell it with doing nothing or very little to it. At least the price that we were at originally, where it was sold at.

And it's funny how you talk because you say resell it when most people, people listening are thinking, I gotta re rent it. I've got to make it rent ready again. I've got to deal with my property manager. I mean, for the investor listening, are they even gonna use a property manager? No. Right?

Yeah. No, Most people do not use a property manager for this. That could be, that could be an option. But really all they're doing is paperwork and tracking, you know, receiving a payment and essentially doing your books for you is what they're.

And what you could do to make it even easier is you could just have a loan servicing company service the loan, as do I with. Because I have, you know, some loans out there that I've, I've financed and I've been the hard money lender on them. And so I'll have a loan servicing company for about $20 per month, just manage receiving those payments. So, so they don't know who I am.

Right.

You know, no one can call me or bug me because they have to deal with the loan servicing company. And so you can do that same thing with a land contract, right?

That's correct, yeah. And there's a company that I network with that they do a very, they do a good job at a very reasonable rate. So that is another option. I personally don't do that. I have a few clients that do.

So. So you can actually profit reselling it, right? Correct. Tell us about that.

Yeah, absolutely. That's something we've done a handful of times where the investment amount that's into it, by the time there's a down payment, by the time someone's made payments, et cetera, and you take that property back, their balance may have been dwindled down a good amount. And being able to resell that back at where you originally had it, you're regaining that, that you're gaining that extra money essentially. And we've had many times we've been able to make more money off the deal because that's happened now. I would not ever want to say that's the goal or try to prey on a buyer because we look at this as a mutual situation. It's good for the buyer. They're able to get home ownership. It's good for us as an investment. So that's not obviously the goal, but we want to be successful.

As Stephen Covey says, the deal has to be win win or no deal.

Right.

Okay. So you'll never get very far in life structuring win lose deals. You'll, you'll get some done. Admittedly, everybody can structure win lose deals and make some money, but they can never seem to do it consistently. Correct. That's what we want to do is we want to be in this long game because there's much, much more money in the long game than, you know, doing predatory lending and that correct.

But you know, I want to give a real quick example. There's one of my clients I do some business with. We actually partner on some stuff together. He has a property that was sold on land contract a couple years ago and it's a street that has now really been up and coming with new development values have gone up and they're the buyer, the land contract buyer in that property was someone we had to start a forfeiture with and was behind in some payments and is not going to, based on what we've talked to him about, is not going to catch up or not able to catch up. I should say we in the meantime had another investor that is buying up this whole street. We've already put a cash deal together, purchase agreement contingent upon that land contract not being redeemed, of course. But if this goes through forfeiture all the way and the property goes back, it's going to be, it's a property that's going to be cashed out and be a very lucrative deal. So that does happen. And again, because you're in control of the property, it's hard to lose on it, if that makes sense. But I'm not saying by any means these are 100% risk free. I don't think anything in real estate is.

Nothing in anything is risk free. Even in the bank you have inflation risk and you know, if you listen to the doom and gloomers who say the whole system is going to collapse and the FDIC doesn't have enough money to pay the insurance claims to the banks, you could lose all your money. So nothing, nothing in the the world is risk free. Being alive and investing and being in business is the very definition of risk. Right. So there is risk and things go wrong and things can go funny and sideways and all that kind of stuff. But you know, there are a lot of safeguards and that's what I really love about it. Correct. So good, good, good thoughts and good stuff. I can cannot wait to have you present this in detail with PowerPoint slides and illustrations that will really, really bring this home and help people understand it at our upcoming Meet the Masters event. And you know, we're going to have Diane Kennedy there too to address the tax questions and tax issues that will surely arise when we talk about this. And I've been slow to complain around to some of these more creative things. So I'm very excited to have you have you present it at our upcoming event. So that'll be great. Any final words or final thoughts you want to share about this Maybe a question that I didn't ask that, you know, a listener, you know, I mean, you're working with investors all the time who are buying these. You're working with investors all the time who are buying the houses and the selling their properties this way. So the other thing you're going to learn at Meet the Masters is if you have properties you want to sell, this may be a good way to sell them and increase your buyer base and your yield upon sale as well.

Yeah, I think the one thing I would like to leave with everyone that we didn't touch on is, you know, some people, some investors have her land contracts and have heard of, you know, some of the risks. And usually when you have heard of something that or something that was risky with it, it's because it was somebody that didn't know what they were doing. And with land contracts, it's extremely important to thoroughly evaluate the buyer, the land contract buyer. And that is something we're very strict on. And there are a lot of people with 5,000 down that they can put down on a house that we decline. And that's something that is very important because it makes the whole process easier and helps with that longevity by evaluating and getting the right buyer in the property. That's what's going to help with that rate of return.

Yeah, no question about it. Good stuff. Well, hey, thanks for joining us and we look forward to having you at Meet the Masters and learning a lot more about this and having some of your customers there who have done it and have made money with it and have been working with you for a while. So I'm about 80% sure we're gonna have Matt and Chris there who will talk about it in more detail. But it's a fascinating discussion, fascinating opportunity, and thanks for joining us today.

Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you, listeners. Thanks for listening. We'll be back on our next episode with Diane Kennedy. Sorry, we just got into this discussion too deep, but I really thought you'd want to hear more. So CPA Diane Kennedy will be up next on the next episode in just two days here or three days, I guess. And if you want to register for Meet the Masters, go to Jason hartman.com, click on the events page and get your tickets. The room, I think, is about 70, 75% sold out. And it. This is the way look, we. We've done 16 of these. This is the way it always works. A lot of people register at the last minute, so don't be left out. This room has a hard limit on size because we're in that beautiful, beautiful conference center. I call it the, the mini United nations room because it's got stadium seating and big, comfy leather chairs and, and you know, it's not like you can bring in more chairs. The room is a structured room. So. So it is, it is totally limited. And when we reach capacity, we're at capacity, and that's it. Okay, so go to Jason hartman.com, click on events and get your tickets. And we look forward to seeing you there and talking to you on the next episode.

I've never really thought of Jason as subversive. But I just found out that's what Wall street considers him to be.

Really? Now, how is that possible at all?

Simple. Wall street believes that real estate investors are dangerous to their schemes because the dirty truth about income property is that it actually works in real life.

I know. I mean, how many people do you know, not including insiders who created wealth with stocks, bonds and mutual funds? Those options are for people who only want to pretend they're getting ahead.

Stocks and other non direct traded assets are a losing game. For most people, the typical scenario is you make a little, you lose a little and spin your wheels for decades.

That's because the corporate crooks running the stock and bond investing game will always see to it that they win. This means unless you're one of them, you will not win.

And unluckily for Wall Street, Jason has a unique ability to make the everyday person understand investing the way it should be. He shows them a world where anything less than a 26% annual return is disappointing.

Yep, and that's why Jason offers a one book set on creating wealth that comes with 20 digital download audios. He shows us how we can be excited about these scary times and exploit the incredible opportunities this present economy has afforded us.

We can pick local markets untouched by the economic downturn, exploit packaged commodities investing and achieve exceptional returns safely and securely.

I like how he teaches you how to protect the equity in your home before it disappears. And how to outsource your debt obligations to the government.

And this set of advanced strategies for wealth creation is being offered for only $197.

To get your Creating Wealth Encyclopedia Book 1, complete with over 20 hours of audio. Go to jasonhartman.com store if you want.

To be able to sit back and collect checks every month just like a banker. Jason's Creating Wealth Encyclopedia series is for you. This show is produced by the Hartman Media Company. All rights reserved. For distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www.hartmanmedia.com or email mediaartmanmedia.com Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own and the host is acting on behalf of Platinum Properties Investor Network, Inc. Exclusively.