CW 607 - Jane Root - The 2000s - A New Reality - CEO of Nutopia & Discover Networks

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Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your Financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Creating Wealth Show. This is episode number 607 and your grateful host, Jason Hartman here to talk with you about a few things. Before we get to our guest today, who will be Jane Root. Talking about a new reality, Talking about the 2000s, a new reality. You know, I've always really been fascinated by futurists. Way back a long, long time ago, I remember reading John Nesbitt's books. You know, you may have heard of him, he wrote megatrends and megatrends 2000s and several other futurist books. And then Alvin and Heidi Toffler. I have not, for some reason we have not been able to get any of these people on my show. I would love to talk with them. Years are passing and they're obviously getting up there age wise, but man, I love their work. I used to be a member of the World Future Society and have always been fascinated by predictions and what's coming next. And as you know, longtime listeners, dear longtime listeners, I've gotten a lot of those predictions right myself.

And we'll see how I do. You know, every forecaster is right until they're wrong and they fall on their sword. And that is why I do not invest for appreciation when I buy properties. I used to do that and you know, I have just found that I don't know anybody, you can accurately predict it yet. Cash flow, on the other hand, the conservative side of investing, investing for cash flow is very, very reliable. And that's why hopefully all of us listening are cash flow investors. Yogi Berra, you know, he used to have all these great quotes, right? The late Yogi Berra. And one of his quotes about the future I just love. And it really is. It really is pretty accurate, you know, if you think about it. I mean, he's obviously saying it tongue in cheek as he says all things or used to say all things. But Yogi Berra said the future ain't what it used to be. And that's really true. And when we talk to Jane Root today, I think we'll. We'll see more and more of that. So we'll get into that in a moment. But first, I want to thank you. You know, we sent out an email just a couple of days ago and instantly sold this out. We have a VIP dinner before Meet the Masters Friday evening where we'll have our speakers and presenters. Garrett Sutton, of course, will be there. Rich dad, Poor dad, author. He'll be speaking Saturday morning. So don't worry, you'll get to hear his talk on asset protection and some great business strategies. But he'll be joining us for dinner and, you know, our team will be there for dinner. And we decided Sarah actually had this idea. I thought it was a great idea. She said, jason, why don't you sell several tickets to the charity dinner? To the VIP dinner, Actually, not the charity dinner, but the VIP dinner where Venture alliance members will be and so forth, and just let some people buy a ticket to it if they want and donate the money to charity. So we said, okay, you know, we'll make it 150 bucks and we'll donate all the funds to charity. And you guys bought all of those instantly. So thank you. That opportunity has passed. So we just don't have any more space for any. Anybody else at the. The Friday evening dinner. We may do a group dinner. I am not sure yet. So look for more announcements on that. And we will be sending out the link to the Yap app. Boy, that's hard to say, isn't it? Yap app. Do you know what Yap is? Yapp. It's this great little app for your very smart smartphone. Your phone. That, by the way, since we're talking about the future, your phone, if it's a smart one, hopefully it's an iPhone. But if not an Android, almost as smart as an iPhone. Your smartphone, you know, that one in your pocket or purse. That phone is smarter than all the computers NASA had in 1969 when we landed. Two guys. Who were they? Neil Armstrong. Of course, you know that one. But did you know the second one? Buzz Aldrin. You probably knew that when we landed those guys on the moon, all the computing power of NASA, the National Aeronautics and Space association, right? Or his Administrator, administration, I believe not. Association. All the computing power they had was not as smart as the phone in your pocket. The future ain't what it used to be, is it? And it is an amazing time to be alive. An amazing time to be alive. A new era of, in a way, and this is complicated, like everything, right? You know, it's like my relationship status on Facebook. It's complicated. I love that one. So it's complicated. But in a way, we are entering an amazing era of prosperity. But at the same time, we are seeing the debasement of, of the middle class in Western countries, most specifically the United States. So when we look at this and we look at this, this death of the middle class, really, you know, it's pretty darn interesting. There is a recent story about it and it shows you that. Here, I'll just share with you some of this. I got this off of Newser, that little news aggregation app I like so much. Middle class plummets to less than 50% in the United States. Most of that demographics gains were wiped out by the Great Recession. So compare this. This is really an amazing, in a way, pretty bad reduction in the size of the middle class. But when you dice it up, as we all know, we don't just believe statistics on their face, because if you listen to that, you'd believe we're in this grand economic. Obama recovery is a joke. All of these things. There's much more to them when you drill down. But just basically, here's what the article says. It says that in 1971, the middle class made up 61% of the US population and now it has fallen to just below half. Analysts are worried about this breakdown of what the Los Angeles Times calls a pillar of the U.S. economy. And I agree with that, even though I don't much like the LA Times or the New York Times for that matter. But I do agree with that. Middle class is very important to stability. And that's why when you ask me about international investing, I've looked at all of these countries all over the world and I don't like them. You know, I like to visit them, go on vacation. It's great. But not for investment. You know, I don't want to buy a property that I have to worry about squatters invading and I have to put barbed wire around and have no rule. No good. Well, of course you have some, unless it's Somalia, but have no good rule of law. The US is a very, very special real estate market in so many ways. But you know, this, this article goes on to talk about a Pew Research center report released Wednesday called the data from the Census Bureau, Labor Department and the Federal Reserve called upon this data to determine that 120.8 million American adults are in middle class households, while 121.3 million are in the lower or upper tiers. Now get this. Pew defined middle class as any household making two thirds to twice of the overall median income for a family of three. In other words, that range is $42,000 to $126,000. 42,000 to $126,000 annually. Right. And it's led to what the Pew Research calls the thinning of the middle and the bulking up at the edges, more low skilled immigrants to bolster the lower classes. And of course, we see people from the middle class falling out of the middle class. You don't hear about this from the powers that be. They don't want you want you to know about the homeless rate, the tent cities, the massive amount of food stamps out there, and all of this bad news as at the same time, the rich just keep getting richer and richer and richer. And you know, for those people on the left, your solution to this, like Bernie Sanders, the man who knows absolutely nothing about economics whatsoever. Although I do believe that Bernie probably has good intentions and I like him for that. I mean, he's better than the criminal running against him. Hillary. Right. We won't even talk about the Republicans yet. They're just all over the map. So I'm not even gonna comment on the craziness. I mean, boy, the Republican Party has really pulled off a show this time, like for once in decades, you know, when is the last time the Republicans had any sort of a show, any entertainment whatsoever? Well, it was probably when Reagan was deb with Mondale. I mean, maybe that was the last time the Republicans were actually interesting.

You know, remember what he said, the great famous zinger that Reagan delivered. And you know, Mondale tries to make Reagan's age an issue. And Reagan retorts back because he was so witty and just funny. He was just disarmed everybody with his great humor, right? The great communicator. He, he retorted back with something to the effect of I will not make my opponent, meaning Mondale, I will not make my opponent's youth and inexperience an issue in this campaign. Now that, my friends, is what's called a reframe. And as I've been here spending the last six days at Tony Robbins Date with Destiny program freezing to death because this room is absolutely freezing. Tony talks a lot about reframing. Very important, very important skill. And Reagan did it so masterfully. But wow, these Republicans. Yeah, they're kind of entertaining this time around. We'll see where it goes. It's pretty crazy. Wild and crazy. So we've got this thinning of the middle class. You know, here's the problem with all of this. Rather than, you know, read you some stats from the rest of the article, I think you get the drift of it. But the problem is that, I mean, remember the interview I did with Bill Whittle from Afterburner tv? He was on the show, you know, a while back and then I think we put them up again as a flashback Friday episode. But you can find it if you go to jasonhartman.com and just use that. Please use our little search engine up there. Okay? It's up in the upper right and you can search for things and it's a great resource if you want to find out about investing with your IRA or you know, solo 401k or breaking out a 401k jail or whatever it is. Just type the words in the little search Engine@Jason Hartman.com youm'll find a wealth of information, whatever the subject. You know, the Hartman Risk Evaluator, Refi Till youl Die. Oh gosh, all these other great concepts we've been talking about over the years, right? So here's the thing. Middle class, it's kind of odd. You know, this is really hard to dice up and really get your head around. And maybe we'll talk about this more at the Meet the Masters event in January. But. But it's certainly debatable that the standard of living for the middle class is declining in this way. This article started with 1971. Well, I've talked before about this area in Newport beach where I used to live, Newport Beach, California, called Harborview Homes. And a middle class person, maybe slightly on the upper middle class side of it, but middle ish could buy little home in this very desirable place in 1972 when it was around the time it was built. Okay. Or in, you know, a middle class home in Lakewood, California, in a nice area. Or Long Beach, California where I used to live in a nice little middle class area with low crime, decent schools, etc. Etc. And the difference is, you know, when you hear these standard of living studies, they talk about, well, you know, the, the size of the average home or the median home. Either one average or median doesn't matter. It has increased dramatically since 1971. But they never talk about the size of the land. You know, now that home is in, it's a condo, it's all compressed, it's a cluster home. It's high density. And you know, high density usually does not offer as much quality of life in most people's images interpretation as having a quarter acre lot with maybe your smaller single family home that would allow the opportunity to add on because you had all this extra land, right, versus today. Maybe you have more square footage. Maybe back then, you know, the average home was 1200 square feet, and now it's 1600 or 1800 square feet. But you've got no land and nobody evaluates this property. When you hear these surveys about this, right, they always just look at the square footage of the home. So that's one thing to consider. And of course the location of the home, I mean, being in a prime area of Newport Beach, California versus, you know, now they're taking all of these areas that are inland in all around the country, you know, not in the, not in the sort of the core prime area and putting those into the equation. And so it's not the same thing by any means, but certainly with the technology we have and the access we have to things, in so many ways it is, as I always say, what. It's an amazing time to be alive. So these things are hard to figure out. You know, it's not as simple as the statistics want us to believe. It never ever is. It takes judgment, it takes interpretation, and it takes real brain power to read between the lines on these types of things. Okay, it always, always does. I'll talk to you more about it later. But let me talk to you a little bit about my Tony Robbins experience because now, you know, on the last show I had only been here a day when I recorded that. Now I've been here for six days. So first of all, I really want to make this a thing. I mean, this is. This is a thing. You ready for this? I've talked about it before, just a couple of times.

It's the new second hand smoke. Remember how everybody caused such a tizzy about secondhand smoke? And boy, I'm glad they did, because I do not like secondhand smoke. Smoking is an awful, awful habit. If you are a smoker, make this your number one priority in life to kick that habit. It's disgusting and it is killing you. Okay, so kick that habit. It is an awful, terrible addiction. And I understand addictions are not easy to overcome. And by no means do I know how to do It. Okay, so I'm not your guy, but I'm just saying make this a top priority. So secondhand smoke, we all get that it's bad, it's annoying, it's disgusting, and, you know, it's smelly and it ruins the fresh air and blah, blah, blah. But what about air conditioning abuse? Yeah, air conditioning abuse. It's a thing. And I'll tell you, Tony Robbins, as much as I love him, he is like the biggest offender, because that room is so cold. I mean, it has got to be anywhere between 54 and 59 degrees in there sometime. He's got all these extra air conditioning units on a generator outside of the hotel.

And they brought in these temporary big air ducts. They're about probably 18 inches in diameter. Big round things that sort of come apart. Like they're collapsible. These big, giant hoses, I guess, of air. These big air ducts coming from this. There's a big diesel generator outside, and then there's a big air conditioning unit positioned maybe 20ft away from it. And there's a thing around it, you know, those whatever. So you don't go through like a, you know, what, you know, a stand, you know, something like a little fence, right? And he's got that out there. And they are just pumping cold air into this room. And of course you complain about it. Everybody complains about it. People are literally wearing ski parkas. I kid you not. I saw one guy yesterday wearing a hat like. You know those funny. They're. They're sort of so ugly that they're cute in a way. Those Russian hats, you know, that they. They wear to survive the Russian winters. You know, they've got fur coming out of them, and they go around your ears and they got little flaps on them, and they're. They're really dumb looking, but they're kind of cute in a way because they're so ugly. So this guy's wearing one of those yesterday. People are wearing down jackets, and some people are wearing gloves. I mean, it is absurd. And you ask everybody, they'll tell you, well, it's designed to keep everybody awake. Well, I don't know. I think it might be putting people into a cryogenic state. I don't do this at my seminars, folks. I'll keep you awake because I'm interesting. No, Tony's very interesting. He's awesome. But boy, that's. That's the one complaint that everybody is talking about is the air conditioning abuse. So help me spread the word on that. You know, you go into A restaurant, an office building, a seminar room. And it is freezing. I mean, I am not the only one who feels this way. I know this. I hear it from other people. So let's make this a movement. Air conditioning abuse, and then the other one. Audio abuse. Loud sounds that are disturbing the piece. That's another one. I don't know. Am I just getting old and crotchety here? Maybe. I don't know. Possibly. Okay, so what else? But some real breakthroughs? I mean, you know, the. The Tony events. I mean, he's obviously the master of this domain where he. He just does such a good job with these visualization exercises and these, you know, as he would call them, technologies that really are interesting. I mean, I don't know why anyone would need to go to a psychiatrist or a psychologist for, you know, for years on end and spend an absolute fortune in time and money. And, you know, a lot of these therapies, they just don't get anybody anywhere. I'm sure they get some people places, and some people need them. Of course, I, by no means am an expert, but I'll just tell you, like he asked the other night. It was. It was pretty amazing. I mean, there was not a dry eye in the room, including mine, a few times during the last six days. You know, one night he asked everybody who was suicidal to stand up. And so out of this room of maybe 3,000 people, I think 12 people stood up, and he did these interventions with them. And he pulled one guy up on stage, and he had another guy that was down, and, you know, his wife had committed suicide four years earlier, and he was just. He was just broken up about it. And it's pretty powerful stuff. And I don't think it's the kind of stuff that's really gonna leave people very easily. I think it actually will stick. I think a lot of these changes that people do, and, you know, you don't have to go to a live event. You can, of course, read a book. You can get a coach. You can, you know, listen to audio programs and so forth on this kind of stuff. But I think it is pretty darn powerful. I know it's been powerful for me. I discovered him many, many years ago when I was, I think, 24 years old after discovering my four main ones, you know, Earl Nightingale, Dennis Waitley, Jim Rohn. Gosh, why do I do this? How did I forget? Let me see. Zig Ziglar. Thank you very much. Yes. I got my mind on too many things. I got to get back in the room here because I'm missing the event, so apologize for that. But yeah, this is all great stuff and it definitely has a place. It should have a place in everybody's life, I think. But anyway, you know, I'll share some more about this at Meet the Masters and on future episodes as well, but just pretty, pretty darn interesting. And you know what, without further delay, we better get to our guests because I'm rambling on and on here. So what's coming up? Of course, Meet the Masters, it's totally sold out. Look for a link coming to you before the event sometime that will have a link to the Yap app that'll give you a schedule and agenda. Also, of course, go to venturealliancemastermind.com check out our upcoming Dubai trip. You can come as a guest 2000 doll. And if you want to bring another person, $3,000 for two guests. And boy, I'll tell you, these things are first class, top notch events. Airfare is incredibly reasonable. Hotels are pretty darn reasonable too. And this is one of the true gems of the world. I have never been there, but I cannot wait to go to Dubai. I'm super excited about this trip. Of course we're going to be talking about investing and you're going to have something that is very, very powerful. And this is why I have benefited tremendously from mastermind groups. I think Tony said this originally, possibly, but here it is. You ready for this one? If you're at a place where you can write this down, write it down. This is powerful. Proximity is power. Proximity is power. Proximity is power. If you want to do something, if you want to go somewhere in your life or do something or accomplish something in your life, you have got to get around other people that are doing what you want to do. Proximity is power. And that if there is no other value whatsoever is the value of a mastermind group. And that is why I created the Venture Alliance Mastermind group. So again, venturaliancemastermind.com join us for the Dubai trip. We'd love to have you. And let's get to our guest, Jane Root and talk about a new reality.

It's my pleasure to welcome Jane Root. She is the founder and CEO of Nootopia, the former president of Discovery Channel Networks and the former controller of BBC2, the creator of the 12 part Emmy Award winning series America the Story of Us. She's executive producer of the new National Geographic Channel or Nat Geo show, the 2000s. A new reality. And we're going to examine technology, the character of the decade of the 2000s economics and all the economic and financial impact. And it should be a very interesting conversation. Jane, welcome. How are you?

I'm doing very well, thank you. It's great to be here.

Give us a sense of geography. Where are you located?

I'm located in Washington, D.C. these days, although you can tell from my voice, I didn't originally come from here. I'm from London.

Yeah. You sound like you might be a British. Oh, yes. Yeah, absolutely. You've got that. That's my favorite accent in all the world. I think many people share that. So. Good stuff. Well, gosh, you know, it was a fascinating decade, the first 10 years of our new century here. You know, what things really mark that decade. Of course, you know, we had 9, 11 that changed the whole world. We had the, you know, the amazing resurgence of Apple and. And, you know, the iPhone changed the world and. And. And so many things, you know, would take it where you want. I mean, tell. Let's review.

Oh, you know, it was interesting. We'd made a series for national geographic on the 80s and one on the 90s. And then they said, well, shall we do the 2000s? And quite honestly, we thought, isn't it too soon? You know, is it. You know what? We always talk about our shows as being kind of the first draft of history, the first moment where you get to real. Something edges over between the world we're living in and becoming a world you can talk about as history. I thought we were like, wow, that's really soon. But actually, you know, it was. Once we started to look at it, we were like, yeah, it's right on the cusp of being the world we live now. And also the way that history is a strange place, history is another time. And there's a lot of things when you. When you go back and you look at the beginning of the decade and you think, wow, we really were living in a different time. You think of the way that, you know, the phrase hanging chad became part of everyone's kind of, you know, daily life. And we, you know, that the whole saga around that election and also a sense that, like, the world, you know, the world was at peace. There was not that much going on. It was. The economy was booming. And, you know, you had George Bush, the president, who I think was recording at that point, less days in the actual White House than any other president in recent times. You know, there's a lot of gulf going on. And, you know, it was kind of like there was the summer of the shark, when, in fact, fewer people were bitten by Sharks than the year before. But it felt like, you know, there was a. That was a big thing to get scared about.

Every decade has a flavor. You know, it seems like you can really say that the 60s had a flavor. The 50s, the 60s, every decade has a flavor. So, you know, before we dive too deeply into the 2000s, you did the 80s and the 90s. You know, how would you just sort of sum those up? Like, what was the flavor of each of those? And then. And then what the. What was the flavor of the 2000s?

Well, the 80s was really the point when the world we live in right now was created. I think it was a combination of, you know, 60s and 70s, kind of hippy dom and idealism kind of got monetizable, if you like. It hit that business connected up with culture in a way to create the huge growth in technology and everything from the rise of the gym to the creation of the atm to the world getting faster, the beginning of our obsession with.

Telephones.

It suddenly became the world that we now live in. So many things we take for granted were created in the 80s. The thing that distinguished the 90s, I think, I think James Carville, who worked for Bill Clinton, said it very well. He said, well, what was it you didn't like? Was it the peace or the Prosperity? This amazing 10 years between the end of the Cold War with the coming down of the Berlin Wall and 9 11, where the economy was through the roof, pretty much everybody in America's standard of living rose by a huge amount.

Well, you know, I gotta say, that's fascinating that you're saying that, because James Carville, I can't believe he said something that bright. You know, what, what is it you didn't like, the peace or the prosperity? So many people criticize the 80s. You know, I. I remember Bryant Gumbel when he was on the air saying the greedy excesses of the Reagan era. You know, that's surprising. James Carville, he's not a Reagan fan. So the 80s was a pretty good time.

He was talking about the 90s, but he was. He was kind of. He was in the 90s. I think he's the point. If 80s was an era of innovation, 90s was the point when really the peace dividend from the end of the Cold war kind of hit ordinary people's lives and ordinary life just, you know, there was no deficit. There was no foreign wars pretty much anywhere. There was, you know, there was a few civil wars, but, you know, nothing on the scale of what we'd seen in previous decades. And so, you know, a lot of time in, quite Honestly, in the 90s, people, when not much was going on, people were able to get really obsessed about, you know, the President's affair with his intern and things like that, which actually.

You know, in a dire time would have not felt like they were big news. You kind of have something, the same happening at the beginning of the 2000s, where.

Now I'm going to get his name right. Gary Condit, the senator.

Boy, 911 was his best friend, wasn't it? He just fell from the news on 9 11, didn't he?

Absolutely.

You couldn't move on the news until 911 and it was over.

And that was Gary. Maybe the listeners don't remember Chandra Levy, the intern that disappeared and she was murdered. They found the. I think they caught the perpetrator. Right.

Yeah, she was murdered. She was. She was found in Rock Creek National Park.

And by and every thought, buddy, thought Gary Conant did it.

Yeah. And a serial killer who had killed other women.

Confessed and then later died in prison. So it clearly was nothing to do with him. But, you know, the whole the sexy senator and his Internet story spiraled out of control across the media. We interview, in our show, we interview him if something was going on with sharks. We interview a marine biologist who said that he was. He did no laboratory work for three months because he was on the phone all day and on TV, he was doing 35 interviews a day.

He wasn't doing research, he was just doing research.

He had a summer off. And he just said, like, I'm just going to do whatever press they want me to do, I'm just gonna do. And so he was on the new shows all the time. And then he said the day. Then there was a certain day in September when his phone never rang again for 10 years until us. No one had asked him about the summer of the shark. And so, you know, it's just that sense that when there's not a huge amount going on.

Those. Those kind of media flurries of, you know, fill the gap and fill up the minutes of air time when nothing else is going on.

Yeah, sure, sure. Okay. So what about, you know, some of the really important things that happened in the 2000s? I mean, you know, of course, 9 11, you know, the economy was doing its thing all over the place, really. You know, technology, it seems like technology, really, like you said, the stuff that happened in the 60s and 70s became monetizable in the 80s. That's an interesting way that you phrase that. And it seems like a lot of the technology from the 80s and the 90s became really accessible and usable to the individual in the 2000s. And I say Apple, you know, was the huge change with the iPhone.

The Apple was a huge change. But before Apple was Napster.

Oh yeah, Napster.

You know, so, so really Napster begat.

Napster begat the ipod, you know, the I. And the idea that really what Sean Fanning started at Napster, that really the idea that sharing music was a really important thing as much as owning it.

And.

That was a really different way of looking at it. The idea that singles were more important than albums and that you didn't have to own something forever, you just wanted to own a song and that you wanted to have it portable. Portable music had been there since the Walkman, but Napster took it to a new level. The laptop that increasingly everybody had with them, there weren't, you know, no iPhones yet, but that actually you wanted, you know, you wanted to pass music on. And, you know.

Sean Fanning started Napster. It was a kind of fun sort of crazy Internet thing. But then after, you know, it was. It was Steve Jobs who really bet everything at Apple on the idea that we would want to take music with us.

And that we would want to own it in that new kind of way. I mean, one of the really phenomenal business stories I think about that time is the fact that it was a computer company at that point who figured it out how to turn Napster, what Napster had done, into a new industry. And there's not many. It's one of those business school kind of cases where, you know, the fact that the people who had made, had made their business selling music for what, 100 years, 50 years, completely. All they thought they had to do was take Napster to court and, you know, get them, get a ruling against them and it would all go away. And how wrong they could. How wrong they were.

Yeah, right, right. It really was. Well, what about the economics of the 2000?

Well, I think that it was a period where you see taking on from what had done in the 90s where you see an enormous weakening of restrictions. You actually see.

Cultures emerging where all of the kind of go for it, don't hold back, money, money, money kind of feeling that had been emerging in the 80s and 90s really at some points kind of hit the buffers. I mean, I think Enron story is like, you know, it's always that sense that you've got some stories that are just like comedy. You know, they're comedy versions of something really big and serious going on. The big, serious thing that was going on was the rise of financial instruments that were so complex that you had to be right deep inside a company to understand it. And a lessening of regulation and of companies getting really, really, really involved in the supply of utilities. Not as like local small companies supplying the area, but huge financial companies, you know, playing with places like California's electricity supply. But then what the. What happens with Enron is where it really starts to go crazy is where people are just making stuff up. You know, they're shell companies with the names of crazy Star wars characters.

People.

When the decline starts to happen. Yeah. Enroll, you know, few.

You're talking about Enron there, right? With the, with the, with the SPVs, the special purpose vehicles, these fake companies. Yeah.

Things that, that they, that no one could quite believe that they were doing, but they did. And towards the end when it's. When bankruptcy was becoming really apparent, the fact that they had trading floors when no one was doing any trading, they just had people in there pretending to talk to each other on the phone, you know, so to disguise what was really happening, that you had.

You know, that you had computers that weren't even wired up properly to assistants. Just crazy stuff. And then Sharon Watkins, who I think is a real hero, we interview her in the show, who was a woman who really was the major whistleblower who just said, this is crazy. This is all got to stop. And it took her a long while to get listened to, but when she did, she was really the person who started to blow the whole thing up.

Very interesting. So what else would you say about the 2000s? What else do you want people to know? I mean, it was also an amazing time in terms of the technology in biotech and the genome and wow, it just strikes me as we're living in a really amazing time. It seems like we're on the verge of so many incredible technological breakthroughs, as if we haven't had enough already, but a lot more to come.

I think that there's. One of the things that's crazy about this is the speed of change. Things are happening so fast. If you think of the fact that on 9 11, just after the beginning of the decade, that no one had a camera, no one had a camera in the phone, no one had a smartphone. You know, YouTube hadn't been created. GPS was just starting to creep its way into trucks and things like that. You know, cars didn't have gps. And now those things that we just so take for granted, you know, I think that, that sense of just speed of change going on is really, you know, really phenomenal. And that's something which, you know, wow, what a time we're living in where, you know, those things happen in that kind of way, you know, that we are really living in an incredible time.

So what do you attribute that to? I mean, like, you know, looking back at the 2000s, you know, what really brought about this sort of seeming convergence of amazing technologies? I mean, it's probably the network effect largely from the Internet and just people being able to share ideas so seamlessly. And of course, commerce became seamless, you know, this frictionless, instantaneous global commerce that really just, you know, by about the time of the dot com bubble, which, which by the way, we didn't mention, but that happened in the 2000s, of course, it really, that laid a lot of the groundwork for what we have now and really an incredible expansion during that decade, huh?

Yeah, absolutely. I think you've also got the world becoming more global. You know, I think that, you know, the sense that things don't just whether it's movies or whether it's, or whether it's.

You know, all being released on the same day or whether it's things like the tsunami, which would have been a, that's a good case study in how global news became something that we all experience really directly. But also.

People were there filming it. They were filming it on their own camera phones.

And that's why the kind of enormity of what that was kind of.

Made it into all of our lives and became that huge incident in, in a way that it just wouldn't have in a previous time. So it's, it's globalization, it's technology, it's networking. It's all talking to each other all the time in a way that it's just really, really different. And it's kind of you, you really do feel that all these different trends are coming together.

It is really amazing what you can do when you connect all these minds and people can collaborate easy. And if you look at the world now of cloud computing, I mean, the way it's just so cheap to start a business and it's so easy to collaborate with people all around the world and manage projects. And it's really amazing. I mean, it really is.

I mean, in our show we have a lot of people who normally think of being incredibly different, you know, and not on the same side at all from people like, well, we have, you know, O'Reilly and Dick Cheney, but we also have Sharon Osborne. We also Have Michael Moore. And there's a sense that they're all kind of coming together on our show. I think probably the first time they've. The only thing that they disagree, they agree about in any way, about the world was a sense that the 2000s is a really fascinating puzzle to, you know, to get together on. It's a puzzle to kind of understand and something that is really kind of worth sort of unlocking. It's fascinating to unlock these different threads of how different things came together.

Yeah, it really is. What else do you want people to know? Maybe a question I haven't asked you or just anything you want to share?

Well, I do think there's some kind of, you know, there's some fun things that we find out, some just extraordinary facts. I always like that kind of sense of, like, what are things that people just didn't know more. People watched the. The final episode of the first series of Survivor and voted for George Bush the first time around. That was something I really didn't know. So that you have that. So you have that you have the sense of.

TV and movies kind of coming into their own in a really surprising way. I think you have a sense of just different threads coming together in the world, things that we all remember and just kind of. And connect together. So I think that that's, you know, that's a big thing I'd say about Asha. And it's, you know, one of the things that we also talk a lot about. You said, what are we aiming for? We talk a lot about in our company, about kind of clever pleasure. We aim it. We aim it for it to be kind of enjoyable and kind of provoking and thought provoking.

You know, and that, that's our.

That's our aim.

Very interesting, Very interesting. Give out your website. Tell people where they can find out more.

It's utopia.com nut o p I A and that's where you can find lots of clips of the show.

So, Jane, how and where can people see the show?

You can see the show. It'll be all over YouTube. It'll be on Nat Geo site. And you can also see us on our site, which is utopia.comexcell.

Jane Root, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you very much. That was fascinating questions.

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