CW 849 - Upscale Foreclosures, Opportunity Cost vs Urgency, Market Timing

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Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your Financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to the Creating Wealth show, episode number 849. 849. This is your host, Jason Hartman. Thank you so much for joining me today as I am just returning from another. I must say it was another awesome Venture alliance weekend, Venture Alliance Mastermind weekend in Chicago. And we just had a great time out there. Had two awesome speakers. We had Mish Shedlock or Mike Shedlock, Mish is his nickname, come in and speak to us on Saturday morning. And then on Sunday morning we had Mike Moyer, who is the author of several books including Slicing Pie, which is a. A great way to divide equity in a business or a real estate deal. You know, when everybody goes into a partnership, the contributions always seem like they're going to be, even in the beginning, but they never are. His plan really helps kind of even things out, which I, which I like. It's not a model for everything. It doesn't work for everything, but works especially well in startups, whether it be startup business or a startup real estate deal. So all of our attendees in the Venture Alliance Mastermind really enjoyed both of those speakers. I got great feedback on both of them. And Ms. Shadlock hung out with us for dinner at the beautiful Signature Room on Friday evening. That was 96 floors above, 96 stories above Chicago with an incredible view. You know, we took the Venture Alliance Mastermind group to Dubai last year. You heard me talk about that on Episodes at the time. We did that and we went to the tallest building in the world, the Burj Al Arab. Right? That's. Yeah, that's the building, not the hotel. The hotel is the other famous thing. Anyway, I get those two mixed up. You know, there's this, the only seven Star Hotel in the world. That building was amazing. That was like 180 stories high. Now they're even building a taller building in Saudi Arabia. But hey, who wants to go visit Saudi Arabia, right? Just to see that? But yeah, Dubai was totally amazing. And in a way though, the signature room in Chicago was more amazing because it was about half the height. But you know, the, the buildings didn't look like little ants. It didn't look like you were in an airplane looking down. You know, it seemed more kind of the magnitude was almost more pronounced when you weren't as high, oddly. So anyway, it was a beautiful, wonderful weekend. We just had a great time and got to hang out on Sunday night and Monday, had a little extended trip for one of our members who couldn't be there over the weekend and just flew in Sunday night to meet with us. But that was a great time. So, hey, what is going on in the world of real estate? Wow. A lot of stuff. So I am just going to talk to you about several topics today, kind of a variety show, if you will. The first one I want to talk about is the $51 million.

Foreclosure. Yes, the $51 million foreclosure. Now where is my calculator? Because I have got to do some math with you here on this little episode as I talk about this. Now this is a high rise condo in New York City on what they call Billionaires Row. Billionaires row, a $51 million full floor penthouse that is just over 6,000 square feet. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take 51, whoops, $51 million.

Because I have got to know the number here. And I'm going to take 6,000 and I'm going to divide and we get a whopping $8,500 per square foot. Oh, what a deal. $8,500 per square foot for apartment 79 that is now in foreclosure. The article is saying. This is an article by Gina Carey with Newser. The article is saying second multimillion dollar unit to go into foreclosure this month. And it signals bad news for the luxury market. Now we know that New York is a very cyclical market and it is flooded with overseas money, overseas buyers, foreign money. Many of them kind of using these, some of these properties as kind of a bank account. You know, when I was in New York two weeks ago, it's amazing to look at, out at the city and see all of these buildings with so few lights on at Night. And you know, some people may just be in and out, of course, and not have the lights on. But by and large I would say that it's a pretty, as a ratio, a pretty low number of lighted units. And that kind of signals either vacancies or it signals people that are just buying these homes to, you know, to hold and use as kind of a bank account. This is what a lot of the wealthy foreign buyers do from overseas. Why do they do this? Because America has, and I believe will maintain, regardless of what the naysayers say, that reputation of being the brinks truck of the world, being the safe place to store your money. You know, if you are Chinese, Russian, Ukrainian, Brazilian and you got a few bucks and you don't want to keep all that money in your country because you know that your country has much greater political risk than the United States does. I mean, hey, look at the news, right? Half the country hates Donald Trump's guts. You know, all the tolerant liberals, they hate him like you can't imagine. And yet the country is still stable, the economy is booming, we have great political stability. And as I mentioned, you know, love or hate Trump, whatever. Love or hate Obama, whatever, right? The thing that just, I, I just love about the U.S. is that orderly transfer of power. You know, it gave me boost, gumps. I mean, goosebumps when, when I saw, you know, these, these two people that really just do not agree on anything and did not like anything at the inauguration.

The, the Trump family wave off the Obama family as if as they got into Marine One and the helicopter left and you know, it's the orderly transfer of power. Very, very, almost, almost insignificant. Well, literally from the country's founding back in 1776 and then later, you know, the Constitution in 1789, there has been no political risk in the U.S. right.

Has anybody really had their property totally, egregiously confiscated? Probably not. Their bank account, has it been totally, egregiously confiscated like it was in Cyprus a couple of years ago, right, in those Cyprian banks. So very low political risk. The brink struck of the world is the United States. Hey, not perfect, lots of problems. I complain about it all the time, very critical of many things. But the question you've got to always ask yourself is compared to what? And that really is another question about the dogs that don't bark. Right? And I want to just talk for a minute. I'll get back to this $51 million absurdly overpriced condo that's in foreclosure because it's going to blow your mind when you hear about the debt structure, the debt stack on this property, right? And you're going to think, talk about refi till you die, man, that's an amazing, that's an amazing loan they got on that property. But opportunity cost. Let's just go on a tangent for a quick moment here. And one of our Venture alliance members, Chris Allen, noticed this so well when we were talking about it at the Venture Alliance Mastermind last weekend in Chicago. You know, it's the opportunity cost, a huge issue, right? This is a giant, giant issue for all of us because money never sleeps. Well, some people let their money sleep, but it never sleeps overall. And here's what I mean by that, by the way. You know, you'll hear all of these people on the left complain about the rich are getting richer, they're not doing any good for the economy. There's a TED Talk with a rich guy, I think he's a venture capitalist, can't remember his name several years ago, talking about how the rich don't really contribute that much to the economy. That is such utter bullshit, I can't even begin to tell you. Because whether they want to or not, they have to contribute. Because the formation of wealth.

Unless they're sticking their money under the mattress, quite literally, wealth formation creates wealth for others. Because when that money is invested, when it's in the bank, obviously it is working. And it may not be working very well for the person who has title to the wealth. Say, for example, it's a million dollars and they've got the million dollars sitting in the bank. Well, a million dollars isn't even considered wealthy anymore. That's no big deal, right? But you know, say they've got a hundred million dollars, okay? Say they're, you know, Mitt Romney level, right? And the money's in the bank. Well, that's not very good use of their money, right? There's huge opportunity cost with that money being in the bank. But that may be an opportunity cost for that person, the account holder. But. And that they're not using their wealth very well. But, but someone else is using that wealth, especially through the concept of fractional reserve banking. Right? Now we can hate on that all we want, and I hate it too. It's a scam. It's a house of cards, smoke and mirrors, whatever you want to call it. And we've, we dove into that many times on past episodes. But the concept is that someone is somewhere using that wealth, that creation of wealth, and it's better than the person who just fritters it away. So, you know, the ultimate financial plan is to earn as much money as possible and treat that money like you are forced to invest it, okay? And live below your means, okay? Now that doesn't mean live this, you know, stoic life and not spend any money and be a cheapskate. That's no fucking fun, okay? In fact, I believe that will make you poorer instead of richer, okay? And there's this, this balance between the two because one part of the equation we've got to play is our own psychology. That's one very important component. But it's hard to. It's hard to quantify that component. And the other part is we've got to play with just the actual numbers and we've got to save and invest, right? So if we fritter all our money away on stupid consumer items that depreciate in value, then we're never going to build any wealth, right? You know, if we're going out and spending a fortune on dinners, I mean, one of the most wasteful things you could ever spend money on is eating out and drinking out, you know, going to nightclubs, right? Complete ripoff, okay? This is a total ripoff. But, you know, if so, so we'll, we'll fritter away our wealth and we'll never create any wealth if we don't save and then immediately invest, right? If we save too much, we'll never be create wealth either because nobody ever got rich saving money. So we've got to save initially, live below our means, and immediately invest and put that money to work so it doesn't become lazy money or sleepy money. But one other component of it that is very real, a very real component is our own psychology.

And here we have to have, at the same time that we're saving and investing and living below our means, we also have to have some balance to it where we treat our mindset with an abundance mindset.

That we reward ourselves, that we spend a little bit of money, that we not be completely, completely overly frugal, if you will. We've got to spend a little bit of money and enjoy life so that we set our subconscious mind up to the abundance mentality. Because if we're always frugal and we're always saving, our mind will think, okay, money is scarce. We've got to hoard it instead of use it. If we let loose a little bit, but not too much, if we let loose a little bit, then we're going to give ourselves a little shot of that abundance Mentality. So this is a balancing act, like so many things in life. You know, one of the things, you know, whenever I'm talking to a much younger person, you can tell that the way their mind wants to work many times is, you know, true or false, black or white. Right. You know, like. And what you realize when you get older and wiser is that there's a zillion shades of gray, right? And there's a lot of. A lot more complexity and subtlety to things in life than the young person who's either at it's this way or it's that way, you know, so. So that's an important balancing act. And, and that balancing act, balancing act is different for each of us. So here, here's the opportunity cost and urgency concept when investing and thinking about real estate investing. So some people are out here on one side of the spectrum, and they say things like, well, the market has gone up so much, everything's booming. I'm gonna wait for the crash. I'm gonna sit on the sidelines. Okay, fine. Try and time the market. Good luck with that one, by the way.

And the thing you don't realize, you foolish people who are doing that is you don't realize that, you know, we are into linear markets. And these markets haven't seen dramatic appreciation. Yeah, they've seen some, but it's not like these, these cyclical markets that have gone nuts and they will fall and they will crash. So if you're one of those people, then apply that psychology to a cyclical market, not a linear market. But even then, I bet over the course of the lifetime or even over the course of 10 or 20 years, not that long, you're going to fail at trying to time the market. It's just not going to work for you, okay? The market timers in any asset class overall, those who try to time the market, always, always fail at some point. They never succeed in any real way. And here's the opportunity cost. And this is what Chris Allen was talking about at the Venture alliance meeting. You know, the opportunity cost is that, look, you wait on the sidelines and okay, so say you're right and the property prices drop by 10%. But the reason they drop is because interest rates go up by 1%. Well, there you go. That's your 10%. Because remember, 1% in interest rate equals about 10% in purchase price. You've made nothing. You've achieved nothing by waiting, but here's what you lost. You can't hear the dogs that don't bark. See People that think in a very linear fashion, people that aren't very intelligent, they won't see that what they've missed is all of the return on investment they could have earned in the time they were sitting on the sidelines, okay? So they keep their money in the bank. They wait two years. They're right. They timed the market and they even succeeded in timing the market, which is incredibly rare, by the way. But say they got lucky, okay? Because they didn't do it through their brilliant brain power because nobody can do that, okay? So they time the market and they're right. Property prices go down 10% two years from now, but the return on investment they might have lost is 25 to 40% annually for two years.

And then maybe they saved 10% on the purchase price, but they lost the 10% because the financing price increased. You know, folks, the deal is if you're a linear market investor, you just gotta get in the game. Be in the game always and stay in the game, okay? Because that's the way to do it. You know, I almost hate to borrow this well worn cliche from the Wall street crowd because when they say it and they're talking especially about non dividend paying stocks, they're lying, okay? They're just mostly lying, okay? It's, this is a rationalization to get people to invest when probably if they're in the Wall street game many times in the cycle, they should just be in cash. But these big brokerage houses, you know, their mandate is to keep you in the market. And you're going to get screwed some of the time, you know, depending on what side of the cycle you're on. I mean, Merrill lynch certainly has been guilty of this. I've heard many rumors and read some articles about it over the years, you know, but it's not just Merrill. I don't mean to pick on Merrill lynch, you know, any of these big brokerage houses, I'm sure they're all the same deal, right? You know, it's, it's keep the client's money invested in the market because that's how they're going to make their money. They don't make money when you're in cash, right? So eventually that's going to hurt bad. But when you're a linear real estate market investor, dollar cost averaging, which by the way is that well worn cliche that I didn't want to use really, actually makes a lot of sense to a linear market investor. It doesn't make sense to a cyclical market investor. It doesn't make sense for a non dividend paying stock investor, but for a linear cash flow market investor, stop trying to time the market. Dollar cost average in. Now, here's what's gonna happen, and here's what happened during the Great Recession, okay? Someone's gonna listen to this podcast. They're gonna say, jason, I did what you said and then the market crashed. Well, I doubt the market's gonna crash anytime soon, but say that it happens. Then they're gonna say, see? Damn it, why did I listen to you? I shouldn't have listened to you. I should have just kept my money out of the game. Well, really, I don't know. You can't hear the dogs that don't bark because nobody ever does the math on the other side of the equation. Remember, the dogs that don't bark concept that I talked about in my speech at the Meet the Masters in 2015 in La Jolla was about this, right? That was my opening speech about the dogs that you can't hear. The dogs that don't bark is about the profound impact of things that didn't happen, the profound impact of things that were unseen. Very few investors ever, ever do the math on what they didn't do. They only do the math on what they did do. And they say, okay, what I did was either good or bad. But they didn't do the math on the opportunity cost on the thing they might have done instead. Right? And so that's why you have this bias as an investor for seeing only your little narrow slice of the world that you did. We all do this. It's a human nature, okay? I'm doubt it's just me. I do it. Okay? This is a bias, right? There's all these biases our mind has. You know, sunk cost bias is another one of them, right? If we get into something and we invest a lot of time, energy or money or all of the above into it, right? Then we're less likely to leave it, even though sometimes we should leave it, whether it be a relationship or a deal or a whatever, because we have what's called sunk cost bias. So our mind becomes prejudiced to the concept of staying in the bad deal because of all that we've already invested. And we trick ourselves into thinking we should stay in when sometimes we should just cut our losses and go get out. Okay? So there are many of these biases that operate in our psychology. So the psychology is obviously critically important. Anyway, opportunity cost, look, you don't want to lose the return while you're trying to time the market that's what people lose constantly. It's really, really frustrating. And then when they look back, they say they justify and rationalize themselves by saying, hey, look, see, I was right. Two years went by and the market crashed and now every property is 10% cheaper. But they never go back and do the math. On the 35% annual return they would have received for two years, 70%. And then compounded, it's even better, right? They never looked at that because they have the, the bias, right? The bias is really dangerous. Okay, let me talk to you about this luxury condo for a second. Then I want to talk to you about another topic. Okay, so I'll just share with you a little bit of the article. This is apartment 79. 6,000 square foot penthouse overlooks Central Park. $51 million, $8,500 per square feet. You know, we have properties that are less than $85 per square foot, 100 times less money. Okay, so it went into foreclosure, right? It's probably the most expensive foreclosure we've ever seen in luxury development. Says Donna Ash Aslan, I guess is how you say that. Of.

Tells Bloomberg. Right? The mystery owner purchased the apartment anonymously in 2014 for $50.9 million, essentially $51 million after, get this. Remember I told you I'd tell you about the capital structure here after taking out a 35 million dollar loan in 2015. Okay, so they bought it, I guess with cash in 2014 for 51 million, then refinanced it the following year in 2015 for 35 million, I guess cash out from Luxembourg bank Haviland and it was scheduled to be paid within one year. This is kind of a hard money loan, right? A short term loan. When the deadline passed, the bank forced a sale. The owners of Apart Apartment 79 aren't the only ones having trouble keeping up with their multi million dollar home payments. According to the New York Post, this is the second luxury apartment at 157, that's the name of the complex, to default this month. The luxury high rise still boasts the most expensive residential sale in Manhattan of.

Wow, $100.5 million for a condo. Oh my God, that's insanity. Insanity, I tell you. $100.5 million. You could have purchased for 100 million bucks. Numerous huge apartment complexes and look at the income they would have generated. Your home is not an asset, it is a liability. Period, point blank, end of discussion. Your home is a consumer product, okay? Do not buy expensive homes. You know, unless you just want to treat yourself Then fine. But make sure before you do that, you buy an asset producing property or set of properties on the other side to counteract your indulgence. Okay? That's what you need to do. Okay, so. But experts believe that the recent defaults may signal a downturn in the luxury real estate world. Per CNBC, units are now selling for 20% less in the 157 Building opened in 2014 as the high end market saw new development sales dip by 25% in the last quarter. A surplus of luxury properties combined with fewer overseas buyers are thought to be causing the downturn. So there you go. We will see.

We will see as this continues to unfold. Maybe this is a sign from the top down. Who knows if this will be trickle up or triple trickle down in terms of the way the real estate market's going to go. Okay, now, now, you've of course heard me talk many times about refi till you die. And you do this for many reasons. It's the most tax efficient way to extract wealth from your real estate portfolio. Obviously, this person that bought the $51 million condo did a refi till you die plan, I guess you could say, for that $35 million loan. But remember, also refi till you die not only uses leverage to amplify your returns through the leverage concept to reduce your risk. Because remember, whoever has the largest amount of cash into the deal, whether it be you or the bank, is the party at most at the highest risk. You reduce risk by financing things. You don't increase risk. Now granted, the loan has to be a reasonable loan. You know, ideally fixed rate, low rate, etc. If you go out and finance the property at 15% and you take 10 points to get that payday loan, in essence, that auto title loan, really crappy loan, then that would not be a prudent use of leverage. But also when you have your properties as leveraged as possible, you keep the potential creditors and litigants away. Right? Because equity in a property is sitting duck for a lawsuit. And also, when you don't have your properties levered up, you don't take advantage of what inflation induced debt destruction, very important. So you got to amplify returns with leverage, reduce risk of all sorts through leverage, even risk of natural disasters. You know, when Hurricane Katrina happened years ago, there was a moratorium on mortgage payments. And the people who got the most help were the people that had the highest amount of debt against their properties. The free and clear people didn't get anywhere near the amount of help. Okay, so, so that was not a good deal for them. Now there's another article that I think is pretty interesting about the hourly income you need to afford to pay rent around the U.S. okay? And, and this has been out in the media. It's in many different, you know, publications and sources out there in the media. And then of course, hang on, as I pulled the article up, the video started to play. And then of course, there's a video on this one article here in Huffington Post of an idiot who doesn't understand how things work in the real world. And he's saying, well, you know, the federal government needs to step in and increase affordability and minimum wage is too low and so on and so forth. And, and we need more, you know, Section 8 vouchers, programs and things like that. What? These people, they think that these idiotic government programs operate in a vacuum. They just have no idea that there's a whole marketplace out there that reacts to this. So let me see, if Section 8 offers to pay more rent, which I know all of you investors are thinking, well, that would be fine with me. I've got some section 8 properties and I would be happy to have them pay me more rent. Yes, I understand. But let's look at the big picture here for a moment. If they do that, what's going to happen? Obviously, the classical definition of inflation, a larger supply of dollars chasing a limited supply of goods and services. So what will you do as a smart investor? You will do what I'm telling you to do all the time. Raise the rent. Raise the rent. And by the way, we had a talk at the Venture alliance meeting in Chicago on Friday. Before the, the main meeting started, we had a meeting with some of our local market specialists and we talked about different property management issues and, you know, different things going on in the marketplace, what inventory levels were like and so on and so forth. The issue of pet rent came up and pet deposits. And you all know I love animals. I like cats. I like dogs. I like dogs better because dogs are better than cats, but cats are alright too. I've had cats when I was growing up and I like kitty cats. You know, they're, they're cool. I'm an animal lover. I think they're great. But I've never seen them improve the value of a property. Okay. I think that people really, I mean, and it's mainstream. This is a normal occurrence in the institutional apartment world that institutional apartment owners charge something called pet rent. Almost all of them will accept animals, but they charge a fee for it. Why wouldn't you charge a fee for it too? I do. And it amazes me to this day how some of these property managers that I deal with, with don't want to do it. I, I tell, you know, one of them came to me the other day and said, hey, you know, this, this prospective renter has a big Rottweiler dog. And I said, fine, you know, I'll take the dog. So they've got to do a non refundable deposit, $500 in this case. Now granted, I do want to say that local laws vary on this stuff and you know, local and state laws varies a lot, a little bit. So talk to your property manager about it and you know, find out the facts. But you know, in the, I'm just talking from the general free market perspective. I'm not naming a price or anything like that, but what I did is I told them, yeah, 500 non refundable. And she said, they're, they're fine with that, that's no problem. And I said, but I also want 25amonth pet rent. Pet rent, okay, you can have the dog there. You got to pay pet rent because the dog, you know, there's a lot of more wear and tear on the house. And manager said, I can't do that. And I said, what do you mean you can't do that? Of course you can do that. I am the client and I will dictate the terms on which I want to rent my property, thank you very much. And she said, well, you know, comes back to me and says, well, I didn't mean I couldn't do it, but you know, whatever, you know, a bunch of equivocation. So ask for pet rent. This should be a normal thing. Okay? You know, I recommend that you take pets so you don't limit your market. You have a broader market of tenants, but you should get pet rent for it. It's just a reasonable thing. And check out in the areas in which you own properties. Maybe go online and look at a couple of these big institutional apartments that are available for rent in that area and ask them, call them up and just pose as a secret shopper or prospective tenant and say, hey, you know, I've got a dog, I've got two dogs, I've got a cat. You know, is that okay? And they'll say, sure, it's okay. And, but we charge pet rent. I bet you they're going to say that because it seems like all of them do. And so you want to do the same thing that is customary with the institutional Apartment owners pet rent should be a normal thing. Okay, it should be a normal thing. And you, you can offset the wear and tear on your house and you can also collect some extra money, increase your return on investment. And the other thing, speaking of wear and tear, I want to again say you got to, whenever you do a repaint of any of your properties, a make ready between tenants, get eggshell finish paint or low sheen paint on those walls. Not flat paint, cheap flat paint is not durable. You've got to get good paint on the walls. And then whenever you, it comes time that you've got to replace carpet and that will come eventually. I want you to replace your carpet with hard surface floors, ideally the wood plank looking vinyl. And I suggest it be a lighter color, not the darker color. Makes the house look larger when it's lighter. It also doesn't show dust on it and it'll cost you a little more, but it will make your property a lot less expensive to run over the long term. And we are long term buy and hold investors. So we want you to reduce operating costs over time. Okay? So on this article, the income, the wage you need based on working 40 hours a week to rent, the fair market rental value of a two bedroom rental home in these different places in the US So in different states. In Alaska you need to make 24 bucks an hour. In Hawaii, $35 an hour. California $31 an hour. I'm rounding a little bit by the way. Arizona, 18 bucks an hour. Utah $17 an hour. Texas 18, just over 18. In New York, $28 an hour. Now the problem with New York is the state and the city are obviously very different. Ohio, $15 an hour. Washington State, $24 an hour. Oregon State, 20 bucks an hour. So you can see how this varies around the country. Right? And the problem is this is by state, it's not by county. Okay? Arkansas by the way, has the lowest hourly income needed to rent for, to rent a two bedroom property and that's of $13.72. And the state minimum wage is $8.50. Okay, well that's one person working of course. Right. So that's the first issue. And you know, nowadays both people got to work, right? But you know, this is, this is the government at work for you. You can't hear the dogs that don't bark. Most people don't see this, but the reason all these houses are so expensive is because we've got Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac promoting homeownership, pushing up the prices by offering a flood of money out there. We got Sallie Mae in the college world flooding money into the college loan market. So of course the price of tuition went through the roof. We get more Section 8 vouchers from the government improving the affordability of rental housing, then what's gonna happen? Rents are gonna go up, okay? So the best thing to do is tell the government to get the hell out of the market and stop manipulating the market artificially. It's just dumb. But you know, all of these people, they don't think long term. They only think instant gratification and they just obviously don't get it. Okay? So that's that. Gosh, there's a zillion other things to talk about, but time is running out, so I think we better call it a day for this one. I hope you'll join us in Oklahoma City coming up for our JHU Live Jason Hartman University Live seminar and Oklahoma City Property Tour that is coming up in early July. Go to Jason hartman.com, get tickets for that. And by the way, I want to tell you something very exciting. We have finally redone the update, the visual update for Property Tracker. Just a great, a great software product that a client of ours developed many years ago. Fernando and I purchased that company two years ago. And last week, just last week, with a few little bugs and problems. Problems but not significant ones, we relaunched Property Tracker with a whole new nice look and a nice interface. So check that out. Go to jasonartman.com click on resources and then go to the section where it says real Estate tracking and analysis software. And you can check that out. Of course, you can go directly to realestatetools.com but you won't get the discount price on it. So you got to go. Go through jasonhartman.com and click on Resources section to get the lower price for that product. But really nice job that they did. It looks beautiful. We did have a few people that had a few complaints about it, but you know, it's just a matter of getting used to it. It's. It's better. Admit it, you know you like it better. Okay? But by and large the, the response was phenomenal and everybody just loves it. So. But you know, there's always a few outliers. I don't like anything to change. I don't like anything to change. I know, I understand. I don't either. But you know, you gotta, you gotta change things and improve them every once in a while. And that's what we did. So it looks real nice. Check out the new look of property tracker and you can do that@jason hartman.com in the resources section. All right, thank you very much. We hope to see you in Oklahoma City and we'll be back again on Friday with another episode and many more episodes to come. Of course. Happy investing and we'll talk to you in a couple of days.

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