CW 877 FBF - Financial Independence & Benefits of the Apartment Owners Association with Jason’s Mom & Fernando

This show is produced by the Hartman Media Company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit hartmanmedia.com welcome to this week's edition of Flashback Friday. Your opportunity to get some good review by listening to episodes from the past that Jason has hand picked to help you today in the present and propel you into the future. Enjoy.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your Financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Today I am planning, but you know what they say about plans, they don't always happen. The best laid plans of mice and men don't always happen that way. So I'm planning to have as our guest today John Michael Greer, the author of the wealth of Nature. However, I have two people to help me with this intro portion because I've got some interesting stuff and I just have a feeling we're going to go too long and we're going to do the entire episode in our discussion here. We will see. So if we don't have John Michael Greer on today, I'm telling you in advance, you he'll be on the next episode. So I've got Fernando with us that you've heard on the show before. Fernando, how you doing?

I'm doing great, Jason, how are you?

Good, good. And then I've also got my mother who's been on the show. I think this is this mom, I think this is your fourth time on the show, right?

Oh, I've been there a few times, that's for sure.

Yeah. And every time you're on the show, mom, everybody says we would rather have your mom host the show than you so you could put me out of a job.

Well, anyway, so I wanted to talk about a couple of things and Fernando and I are working hard on developing a software tool that will help people either use property managers in an a la carte fashion where they can just buy the services they need rather than buying the whole thing and I think that's just going to be awesome. So we're working on that. Yeah, yeah, we're working on that and we'll talk about it a little bit today. And then also this software tool would empower people to self manage their properties. And Fernando, I don't know if you noticed this, but when you spoke at our Meet the Masters event in January, you talked about the 70 doors that you have, 50 properties and 70 doors total, 70 units total. And you made a little offhanded remark that a lot of people picked up on. I'm not sure if everybody did. I'm not sure if you even heard the feedback on it. But you said that sometimes your self managed properties are easier than your properties that have property managers. Do you care to elaborate on that?

Well, it's, it's based on what I'm actually seeing. I, my, my personality is, is the type that wants to look at every owner statement that comes for my properties. I want to make sure that I'm not being overcharged for items. And a lot of times simple items that a handyman could fix are sent over to full fledged professionals, plumbers and electricians and for things that really don't make sense. And I spent a lot of time overseeing and arguing at times with the property manager about why was this done and why was that done. And if I'm spending that much time overseeing the charges and sometimes having to correct these charges, it makes sense for me to find a system to do this myself. And I've been able to do this self management on several of my properties and therefore I can control the costs. I'm the one that is directly impacted by these maintenance and repair costs that add up very quickly. But I think the main thing that I mentioned in the Meet the Masters is the fact that the tenants seem to have a different dynamic when they are dealing directly with the owner.

Yeah, and I noticed that and mentioned it years ago. I completely agree with you by the way. And my mom's going to agree with this too. Go ahead and explain that.

Yeah, so I noticed that for my properties that self managed properties, sometimes I wonder if everything is okay because I don't hear from the tenants for months and I sometimes will contact and check on them just because I'm thinking of anything that could be possibly wrong and they're not reporting. And it's just amazing how that works. It's not true for all cases, but I noticed that that is true. And direct contact with the tenant also sets up a, I think sets up a Different relationship than the property manager, which is kind of a black hole to the tenant, sets up that dynamic is definitely different.

Right. So let me just elaborate on that if I can. And mom, you're going to definitely agree with this, I'm sure. Now look, the first thing I want to say with this folks, okay, is that property managers, some of them are awesome, I'd say some of them are definitely not awesome.

And some are pretty bad too. And so it spans the gamut. And one of the things we do is if we get a bad apple through our network, we weed them out pretty quick because we're constantly assimilating this feedback we get from our clients. And you know, eventually we get a few complaints and we're going to just get rid of this guy if they're just a bad apple or we're going to be able to put a lot of pressure on them to change. But in comparison to other investments, even if you have a property manager who dings you nickel and dimes you, and even if they overcharge you, think of how much better this still is than any type of Wall street oriented investment or any type of fund where there are all sorts of overcharges that you never even know about. You have no concept that they're going on. Okay? So I just want to put that in context. Fernando, fair statement.

Yep, fair statement.

Okay. One of the things though with his self management is now how many doors do you have that you're self managing versus you have managers on Fernand self.

Manage about 8, maybe 8 to 10 properties, depending on how you count it. But it's a significant amount.

And so you're saying depending on how you count it, because some are duplexes or fourplexes.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So out of 70, you've got eight to 10, depending on how you count, that are self managed and all the rest have property managers. Now, mom, you're self managing everything now, right? All of your entire portfolio, self managed, everything. Okay. And my mom, for those of you who may have not heard her on a prior episode, I call her the Extreme. Like you've heard of extreme sports. Well, my mom is an extreme do it yourselfer.

And, and mom, you, you just blow me away at your level of energy and, and you know, you think you'd be kind of scaling back and so forth, but you are not even close to doing that. You, you're just always running around. And the level of extreme is that you now live in Gulf Shores, Alabama, moving there from Los Angeles several years ago. You go back To California to manage the California properties you still have, right?

Yes.

And you just did that recently. I mean, this to me seems like a terrible idea. I mean, you literally self manage every part. Now I self manage some of my long distance properties and I've been surprised that you can actually do that so well. But when it comes to doing the new lease up, I don't travel anywhere. I just have an agent do the lease up and do the walkthroughs for the tenant leaving and the tenant coming and so forth and handle any repair issues in between. But you do literally everything. I mean, you don't have an agent do anything for you.

Right, right.

And you've been really excited lately. I mean, I remember many years ago I was a member of the Apartment Owners association in Orange county. And recently you've been commenting to me a lot about how you love the Apartment Owners Association. Tell us a little bit about that.

Well, I just recently joined again. I was a member a long, long, long time ago.

But I just recently joined and they have this magazine that comes out monthly. Maybe that's what got me so excited about it, because you read all of the articles in it, there's a whole bunch of classes that you can take.

And then there are all of these vendors that, you know, that advertise in the, in the, on the pages. And, and then they're all classified in the front, in the front of the book. You know, all the plumbers together, all of the eviction services together. You know, everything from soup to nuts, all the people that sell soup, stoves, refrigerators, et cetera. It's just a great organization.

And the reason it's great is because like our network, it aggregates things and it helps those vendors that are listed in the directory of the apartment association, you know, they're kind of used to having, dealing with shrewd property owners who are expecting good deals.

Right, Absolutely. That's. For example, the, the man that came, that I finally chose to fix my floors, he wrote AOA on the top of the sheet because he knew he had to give me a good price.

AOA, meaning Apartment Owners Association.

Right. Yeah, yeah.

And the difference between his price for fixing the, for, you know, installing hardwood floors and the price of the people that I had gotten out of the yellow pages of the phone book.

The phone book. You hear that, folks? My mom actually uses the yellow pages in a phone book.

Well, and the Internet too. You know, sometimes you can't get enough on the Internet. And those people that advertise in the yellow pages are Usually always there, you know, they're still in business. Anyway, the difference was it went from $3,700 Yellow Pages, $3,400 Yellow Pages to $2,000. Apartment Owners association person, tell them about.

The painter you just hired. I mean, you got the whole inside of this house painted for a bargain price. About what, 7, 800 bucks?

Oh, yeah, previously for that particular house, I had been paying 1200, 1300, 1400. And you know, sometimes it was like a lot of touch up too. It wasn't a complete paint job. This was a complete paint job for a two story house. Three, three bedrooms, two and a half baths, you know, inside, laundry room, $785. I did not have to tell the man to, you missed this, you missed that, you missed something else. I didn't have to tell him to clean up his mess. It was, it was, it was so amazing that I called up the Apartment Owner's association guy, Todd, who had referred me to him and Tolkien.

Please tell us, Joyce, I have a question that is the Apartment Owners association only for California.

That's a great question. There's a National Apartment Owners association. And let me just say what this. And that website, by the way, is nahq.org that's the National Apartment Association. Naahq.org we had them on the show years ago. I just asked my guest booker to invite them back onto the show. And then they have a directory on that website where you can find local apartment owners associations like the one my mom is a member of. And so not every area will have them. Obviously it's going to be bigger, bigger cities. But they have one in Birmingham, Alabama, for example. That's one of our markets and there are different sizes and so forth. And I think this can be a very handy thing. My mom does all her own tenant screening. I mean, she's the extreme. Do it yourselfer. So just so you know, listeners, this interview, you know, we have many different types of investors listening. We have investors who are completely busy with their, their business or their career, their profession, and they just want to buy six or 10 investment properties and not deal with it. This talk is not for you, okay? The investor this show is geared toward is one who wants to be a little more involved and maximize the returns a little bit more. Okay? So, you know, if you, if you don't mind being involved and maybe you like being involved, that's who this is targeted at. And so what I would say is, you know, joining these apartment associations, I mean, the one my mom's a member of is $79 a year. You know, maybe in a city where you own a couple, three, four, or 10 or 20 properties, it would definitely be worth it to join the association.

You've mentioned the word tenant screening, and it doesn't matter, you know, where you are in the United States, they will do this tenant screening for you because it's with the national credit companies, you.

Know, Experian and Equifax and TransUnion.

Yeah. And they simply will come to your home or your office and inspect it. And for, I think it was $59 or $55 or something. And then you have the right to run these credit reports. 20.

Yeah.

And so what they do is they make sure that you have a locking file cabinet and a paper shredder.

Right, right. And a lock on the door. Right.

And a lock on the door. And they. They came into your 9,600 square foot mansion and what did they think? They think I got to invest in real estate. Right. That's probably what the guy thought.

No, the guy took pictures inside, outside, everywhere.

He probably thought, boy, to get a mansion like this, I need to start owning some real estate. Be a real estate investor.

Remember, you're listening to Flashback Friday. Our new episodes are published every Monday and Wednesday. That's good. So I'm looking here on the website, and they have, you know, different levels of screening. They have the five star screening, the four star, the no inspection. I assume that's no inspection of you, right?

No, but the problem with that one is that you have to send them copies of all of your leases. So I thought that was too much work, so I had the guy come and do the inspection.

Oh, okay. So. And they can come out to your house anywhere in the country, because these are just outsourced services who will just go do this inspection.

Right, right, right.

Yeah. Okay. And you got to pay $59 and then you're set up.

I can't remember what it was, but it was something like that. A minor charge.

I'm curious, Jason, if you don't mind, I'll ask Joyce or. And you. Both of you. So this is a. It's an apartment association. Right. So I imagine that there is a similar, you know, group or company that is focused on single family homes, you know, landlord.

There isn't really.

If there is one, why would you choose the apartment one versus the single family home?

The apartment one is. Don't let that turn you off. You can join even if you don't own apartments. When I first joined the Orange County Apartment Owners association. I was 20 years old and I had my little one condo in Huntington Beach. It was just a crappy little one bedroom condo. Okay. And I joined.

They should change the name to owners who have rental units.

It should be called the Real Estate Investors Association. Okay. You know, really. But yeah, don't, don't let that turn you off. It's, it's not, it doesn't need to be apartments. Okay. You know, you can, any, anybody can join it. It's no big deal. These are really old school type organizations, but they have some great resources. If you look at, you know, the, the website of the local chapters. They're pretty primitive websites. I mean, you know, I remember when I was a member they used to send out this little like stapled together monthly newsletter. You know, it was just really basic. But, but that's great. Look at, this is not a, some high end marketing organization. It's just a place where you can get some good resources and the vendors go there because they can get a lot of business. Right.

And I was looking at this website as you know, and looks like they were announcing this new improved debt reporting service. That sounds really amazing.

I love that. Yeah, yeah, so what that is. When I was surfing around the website, I posted that in our company intranet site. And Fernando, you commented on it right away. This is where if you have a deadbeat tenant who owes you some money, you can send them to this collection agency really quite easily. And this is pre judgment, so you don't need to have a judgment from a court.

Yeah, you don't have to have a money judgment for them to do it.

But there's, it's limited in what they can do. Basically what they do is they bug the person who owes you the money is what they do. You know, they don't have legal power to go and levy a bank account or garnish wages or anything like that, which you do have when you get a real judgment. But a lot of these people will just pay because they're getting their mailboxes full of collection letters and you know, they get phone calls or whatever. Mom, have you used that service yourself?

No, because I just joined. But I'm certainly going to because sometimes I don't bother to get a money judgment because I just figure that these tenants will never, ever, ever be worth it, you know, for that extra hundred dollars or whatever it is. And so these people will go to work without the money judgment.

I'm going to disagree with you on that. But just to expand on that a little bit more, if you would. So you, when you have an eviction and you're obviously self managing everything, tell the listeners how you do your evictions.

Oh, I my, I myself serve the three day notice to pay rent or quit.

If you're local though.

No, no, I, I, I.

And I fax it over to SNAP Legal because they're the least expensive ones, they serve the notice for like $33.

Okay. And so that's a process server is what Snap Legal is, right?

Process server. Right, right.

And they go and they serve the tenant, they serve the three day notice to pay or quit.

Right, Correct. And since I know how to make them out, they're perfectly legal and if we have to do the eviction, actually get started on it, then I simply send that information to the attorney.

When you say the attorney, the listeners don't know what you mean. So you find you have an eviction service law firm. Right. And I want to make a distinction there because when you say to the attorney, most people think, oh, they're going to go sit down with an attorney, they're going to pay, they're going to pay $300 an hour and they're going to get totally ripped off.

No, to the eviction attorney service. I use only eviction attorneys.

So this is like what I call a mill or an assembly line type of legal service where they're set up and they might process hundreds or even thousands of evictions every month and they just charge a flat fee.

Now how much do they charge you in different counties? It's different amounts. It'll be a little bit different amount in Orange County, a little bit different amount in LA County, a slightly different amount in Riverside County.

Okay, and what about your properties in, where do you have Mississippi and Alabama too, right?

Yes.

What about those? Have you had any evictions on those?

I haven't had an eviction on those yet.

Okay, okay, so you're only, you've only dealt with evictions on the California properties so far? Knock on wood.

Well, that's why I want to, I want to be in contact with apartment owner associations in Mississippi and in Alabama so that I know that I am doing the correct thing, that I have the correct form.

Right, right. And you'll be ready in case you ever need them for, even if it's not for an eviction, it could be for repair items and you know, getting the best contractors for all that stuff. So. Yeah. Good, good. Fernando, questions?

No, it sounds good. I'm already, already thinking about joining the association. So it's cheap and easy.

Now, one of the things. And Fernando, since you're on, I want to talk to our listeners about this idea a little bit. And I've alluded to it on the show before. I think I talked about it in more detail at the Meet the Masters event. We had that is the concept of doing larger things and larger portfolios. And I had Aunt Joan on several episodes ago around Thanksgiving time. Of course, that's my mom's sister. Okay. By the way, listeners, if you listen to that interview, I asked our editor to go back and improve the sound quality and he says he, he made it quite a bit better. The echo was, was pretty bad on that originally and he says he redid that episode, so it should be a lot better if you want to listen again. But with that, I think one of the really good ways to approach this if you're looking to do bigger stuff, and this is one of the things I really want to explore and actually implement with my venture alliance Mastermind Group, is the idea of owning neighborhoods. I really do like this idea quite a bit. I like single family homes the best. And I think the idea of picking three cities so that you are diversified and we're in three cities. You get on a plan, you don't do this all at once, of course. You get on a plan of where you've got a couple, three properties in each city and you, you, you keep doubling down and focusing on these three different cities. And eventually you get to the point where you own, you know, 10, 20 or 30 properties in each of these cities. And hopefully they're in, you know, sections and kind of, you know, broad neighborhoods of these cities so that you can eventually get to the point as an investor in the growth of your portfolio where you can hire your own handyman and that person will go and do all of these things. And Fernando, you mentioned at the beginning, you know, rather than having a professional, very expensive plumber come out and do everything, you know, you can just have a good, reliable, high quality handyman do a lot of this stuff. And even if they're not your own person, that actually works for you, if they're getting a lot of business from you, they're going to really care about and pay attention to your account and provide you with really good service and really good prices. You're going to be able to call them at 11am on Sunday morning, say, hey, can you go check this thing out? You can shoot them an email. They're going to be very responsive because they're going to know that you have A lot of business in this area and they're going to want to take care of you. You know, Fernando, we've talked about that idea before. Any thoughts or elaboration you want to share on that? Just a reminder, you're listening to Flashback Friday. Our new episodes are published every Monday and every Wednesday.

No, I think the idea of buying, as you mentioned in the beginning, the idea of buying bigger units, apartment complexes is very interesting. Especially as we talk to clients that want to, I guess they want to achieve their financial independence.

And buy large number of properties quickly. Some of them have talked to me about buying apartment complexes up front and there are some issues with buying these.

Big size investments up front. You're not necessarily taking advantage of the 10 spots that Fannie Mae and Fannie Mac allows you to take up as you're doing financing. So if you become part of a group that is able to buy under company, I suppose, you know, an LLC is formed and the LLC is the one who invests in this larger apartment complex, then there is a different, you know, an alternative for doing this, for building your portfolio more quickly than trying to do this on your own, which could create some issues.

Definitely. So I want to make a comment about apartments. You know, I have, I, I currently own both. I have single family homes and apartments in one of my apartment complexes. Well, one I, I sold several months ago and another one I've got and it looks like it's sold. We're going to be doing a 1031 exchange on that one. And myself and my partner who was at Masters, by the way he talked on the microphone for a little bit, that's Steve, I'm referring to, this is 125 unit complex in Scottsdale, Arizona. And I gotta tell you that you know, the apartments, they're they're like good and bad, you know, you can do great with them, obviously you can do bigger things with them, but the quality of tenants is just low. It's just lower and it's more high, it's much more high maintenance. You have very high maintenance tenants and apartments because they know it's a big management company. And like you started to say at the beginning of the, the interview, it's sort of this black hole concept. Like the tenant doesn't have any reservation. They don't feel like they're putting upon someone. Sort of the laws of civility and courteousness don't apply when it's a management company like it does when it's a person. And mom, I know you've experienced this because your tenants don't ask you for much and you don't do a whole lot in terms of, you know, repair items and things like that. But in an apartment, they expect every little thing. In an apartment, you're running a business, you know, you will be reviewed on Yelp just like the dry cleaner or the restaurant down the street. Okay. You know, it's a whole different game when you have an apartment complex. It's just a completely different thing. So the single family homes, I like them the best. But the advantage of the apartment is you can have this centralized management, you can have this centralized repairs, you can have economy of scale. And the way my Aunt Joan did that, I like that plan pretty well. You know, when you start to own a neighborhood of single family homes, because what you can do there is that you. You can actually start to increase your rents pretty dramatically and improve the values of the neighborhood. If every time a tenant is looking in a given neighborhood, they're bouncing around on your houses like a pinball machine, you can do a lot to increase rental income and increase values if you have good upkeep of that neighborhood. So I think this is a pretty good opportunity. And by the way, Fernando, I wanted to mention. We have not mentioned this on the show yet, but we have a new product in the jasonhartman.com store, and it is consulting with Fernando. It's called Financial Independence Day Consulting. And basically, Fernando will do what he did for himself starting three years ago, where he. He created some awesome spreadsheets and a plan to lead to his Financial Independence Day. And Fernando, you. You retired from Apple Computer last May, and do you want to share anything about the Financial Independence Day Consulting?

Oh, sure, just a few things. As you know, you and I have been talking about this, and we've had a lot of interest from clients and people that want to do what I did myself, which is achieve my financial independence. And we coined the phrase Financial Independence Day as really embodying the. The idea of being able to have enough income from properties to augment and in my case, to completely replace the income from your corporate job, from your W2 job. So with that in mind, we've been putting together some.

Material to create a product that I think we'll be able to offer later on that will have a full version of how to achieve this Financial Independence Day. And as a complement to that, what we're offering now is this consulting, this hourly consulting where I'll basically share my experience and help create a plan that is personal to the client and takes into account their situation and starts out with the software spreadsheet that looks at how many properties and what sort of properties are needed to replace their income. And we talk about different financing options and how to sequence mortgages in order to take advantage of what we have now in different offerings such as agency type financing. With Fannie and Freddie back, commercial banking and portfolio lending. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes in order for this financial day to happen. And I went through this process myself and.

By having done it, I can certainly provide some ideas and help people along that want to achieve it. So this is something we're just starting out with and I'm pretty excited about it. I think it's, it feels very good to be able to share the road that I've been going through that has been just exceptional. And there's been a lot of interest in learning how to do this and having an actual plan on how to get there with a fixed date in mind and fix ideas on how to do it.

A goal defined as half achieved, as the saying goes. And that's what the Financial Independence Day consulting is all about. So check that out and sign up@jason hartman.com and Fernando Will, will create that Financial Independence Day for you. You'll, you'll meet on the phone or Skype and talk for just under an hour maybe and he will, you know, work those spreadsheets out for you. And I think that's a really cool product you're doing, Fernando. So thank you. Congratulations on that, Mom. Any tips you want to leave people with or anything? I didn't ask you anything. We didn't share. But before we wrap up and, and obviously listeners, we'll have the guest on the next episode because of course we went really long as we knew we would.

Wow.

I would like to learn about Fernando's Financial Independence Day.

Well, you, you're, you're already there.

You've done pretty well for yourself. I, I, I should say I want to learn more from you as I learned today. So I think we're in the same boat.

Well, that's, that's what we're doing is learning from each other. Learning from each other. So maybe a final tip before we go. You know, if either of you want to share anything or an experience or whatever, just as we wrap up here.

The only thing I can say is that, and Jason, you do this in your seminars all the time. It's the education and what I see and the, in, you know, in belonging to the Apartment Owners association, it's the constant Education.

Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. Fernando, any closing thoughts?

No, I think that that's an excellent point. I think it's the first step in achieving financial independence, and it certainly was my first step is just trying to learn, listening to podcasts and books and any information that you can about the different facets of real estate income and real estate investing. There is so much to learn and there's always new things that come up. So without, without that backing, without that background information gathering and learning, it's really difficult to achieve anything. There's a big value in that.

Education is the shortest distance between poverty and wealth. So that's definitely important. But the great thing about today is you don't need to pay for that education because it's pretty much free. I guess what I'll leave you with is go back and listen to the old episodes. We've got almost 500 episodes here for you and we do play them on Flashback Friday, some of the selected old ones, but of course, getting through 500 will take almost forever. So go back and just listen to them yourself and really take advantage of them. And there's some, there's some great content, some great guest interviews there that I've done. And we, we, we're going to keep them coming. We've got a lot of great stuff coming up for you as well. So we will have our guests talking about the wealth of nature on the next episode. And be sure to go to jasonhartman.com we've got some awesome properties right now in Atlanta, in Little Rock, in Chicago. Boy, Chicago. A lot of interest in that market. We did that on the last show. We talked about that one. Just a lot of great stuff coming up and we will look forward to talking to you on the next episode. Thank you so much for listening and happy investing.

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