CW 893 FBF - Client Case Study in Atlanta, Kansas City, and Little Rock with Income Property Investor Philip

This show is produced by the Hartman Media Company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit hartmanmedia.com welcome to this week's edition of Flashback Friday. Your opportunity to get some good review by listening to episodes from the past that Jason has hand picked to help you today in the present and propel you into the future. Enjoy.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

We have got a great story, a case study, an interview with our client who's been a client of ours for many years. His name is Philip Sullivan and he's just a great guy. And you're gonna hear his story quite literally. I think this is fair to say it is a rags to rich.

He has done an incredible job investing, starting out, really just kind of looking, dreaming, wanting to get into this game. And he's just done a fantastic job at it. You're going to hear his story firsthand here in just a few minutes. Oh, a couple things. First of all, I really, really appreciate listener engagement. So I love that. We love to get emails from you. We love to get reviews on itunes and Stitcher radio. Of course, you know, we just appreciate engagement. So thank you for that. However, I do have a request. But first, before I make my request, I will make a confession to you. I cannot type very fast. I use the, the hunt and peck method of typing. It's been a really, a huge handicap in life. Gosh, should I even admit this? I will. In eighth grade, we had electives and one of the electives you could, you know, you could choose four electives of the way my school worked in Los Angeles, California. You could choose four electives and that throughout the school year and they'd be, you know what, just eight weeks each or something like that. Typing was an elective and I took typing class and I dropped out being an idiot because I thought that, well, typing is for secretaries. And I'm not going to be a secretary. But little did I know, typing would be a very much in demand skill as the computer revolution took over. So, yes, I am showing my age. Of course, you know, we had computers at my school, but not many people use them. I didn't really use them. Yeah, typing. I dropped out of typing class like a fool, like a moron. Ever since then, it's been a huge handicap. In fact, I will bet you if I knew how to type well, I probably would have earned a couple million extra dollars by now. Little did I know email would dominate the world. And boy, it's a huge handicap. It really is not being able to type well. And I do use dictation and I like it pretty well. However, if you're using dictation on your smartphone, I use it on my iPhone or on your computer. I use it on my Mac. I gotta tell you something, I. You could really ruin a relationship with that dictation stuff if you don't look carefully. And I don't always look carefully when I dictate things because it completely misconstrues words and meanings sometimes. So hopefully that will evolve and get better and better. So my request for you is this. Instead of sending me an email, please go to Jason hartman.com or if you're listening to not the Creating wealth show and one of the other shows, say for example, the show's ever rebroadcast on another one of my shows, you can go to hartmanmedia.com where all of my shows are either one, either website doesn't matter. And use the little Send voicemail feature. It is super easy to use. And send me a voicemail that I can play on the air. And you know, it's just rather than email and me reading an email and then these issues are pretty complex. A lot of these questions that you ask. It's much more lively and better for the show if the listeners hear it with your own voice and your own inflection. The meaning has a multidimensional aspect to it when it is voice rather than the written word. Please send me your questions. I love your questions. I appreciate your questions. I appreciate your comments so much.

And.

And please use the voicemail feature many of you have. And I just want to remind you, please do it that way. Okay. Also, you can schedule an appointment with me@jason hartman.com Jason as a caller to call into the show. Really, if we are able to have a dialogue. That's the best form if you have a complex question. Because anytime you add ask a question, I may need to ask you a question. And we may need to drill down on a point further than we can in a asynchronous non real time type of format where it's either a voicemail or an email. But again, voicemail is preferred. Please leave your voicemails there or schedule an appointment, call into the show and we'll talk real time and I can answer your questions there. So that would be great if you use that awesome little feature. Well, I am off to Europe here in a couple of days. I am going to a conference there and I'm also going to have a little fun, little vacation time. Of course. I've been to Europe many times on this trip. I'm going to England. I've been to England before so I'm not going to be able to claim another country stamp in the passport. I'm going to Croatia. Been there a couple of years ago as you heard on the show, but I think this time I will get to at least one new country that will be Ireland. Possibly have not been to Ireland. There are a couple of countries around Croatia that I can probably visit too. So, you know, want to get another stamp in the passport and be able to say instead of I've only been to 74 countries. Yeah, I know. Only that's kind of a ridiculous statement. Maybe I'll be back in a couple of weeks and I'll be able to tell you I've been to 76 or 77 countries. Who knows. We shall see. We shall see. So I will be broadcasting from my Europe trip and telling you about some of the insights. I always love to get some real estate insights from these markets as I did a lot a couple of years ago when I was in Croatia, Spain, a couple other countries talked a lot about that in the show and thought it was pretty relevant and fascinating versus what we're facing today in the U.S. good perspective on investing and so look for that upcoming episodes. We've got some fantastic upcoming episodes, some more case studies like today's episode, some more interviews with clients, just some great stuff. And that leads me to I want to make an invitation. Gary, I'm not going to mention your last name, but Gary, you're listening. I would like to invite you to be on the show. I want to read a little share a little note that you sent me about the Memphis property tour and thank you so much for your kind words and sending this note. I just thought it was really good. I wanted to share it with the listeners. But I'd love to have you on the show as well. And I'm not sure if you've been on before. Maybe you have. I can't. I just can't remember. You know, we've only got like 500 and some odd episodes behind us, so it's hard to remember all of them, even as I am the one recording them. But this note you sent me a few days ago about the Memphis Property tour, it said, Jason, I had a great time last weekend. I always get motivated to get back on track with investing when I attend your events. So easy to get distracted with the other demands of life. My favorites, getting to know the two providers. In other words, our local market specialist. The ultimate reason for going. And it was more than achieved. Graceland. I have to admit, I thought it was going to be extreme. Extremely cheesy. And now Graceland, of course is Elvis's home that he's talking about. But I was blown away. It was a spiritual experience walking through that mansion, immersed in his Elvis Presley's life with my iPad Storyteller. I had no idea how dedicated he was to philanthropy and to being together with friends and family, enjoying life. Truly inspirational and a complete shock for me. Really enjoyed sharing the bus with your mom and reliving Elvis's era through her eyes. What a gem your mom is. And by the way, it happens to be Mother's Day. So thank you Gary. That's a great thing to say. And happy Mother's Day to all those moms who are listening. Eating barbecue. My favorite in a car museum. My favorite. Could not have been better spending time learning from Fernando. What an inspirational and giving individual. By the way. Gary, I gotta say, so true. Fernando has been a wonderful client and a wonderful addition to our team. We're so happy to have him hearing the investing stories of others. It is really helpful in keeping all the bumps of rental property investing in perspective when you are reminded that it is not just your your world where evictions, leaky roofs and property damage occur. Thanks again. You provide an incredibly valuable service. Gary. Gary, thank you so much for the kind words and the nice note. Really appreciate it. You know folks, I just cannot stress enough. I know we've got thousands of people listening and millions and millions of downloads of the show and people in 17064 countries around the world listening to this show. Whatever you can do. You know we've had clients fly in from Asia, Europe, South America, just all many places around the world to our events. Please make it a priority to attend one of our live events Come and meet me in person. Meet our team in person, and most of all, meet our clients. Meet our clients. Hear from their stories, Hear from them directly. Hear about their experiences, their triumphs, their tragedies. You know, this is hardly perfect. We have ups, we have downs, but overall, the trajectory is up because income property is the most historically proven asset class in America, if not the entire world. I'm just going to start saying it's the most historically proven asset class in the entire world because I think it is. I'm pretty sure it is. And if anyone disagrees with me, call into the show and let's talk about that topic, because I'd love to hear some opposing viewpoints on it. But anyway, without further ado, go to Jason hartman.com, check out upcoming events, check out the properties, check out the home study courses. There's some great stuff there. Become a member so you can get on our monthly members only calls with Jason Hartman University. There's just a lot of great stuff at the website. So that's Jason Hartman.com and without further ado, let's hear from our client, a great story from Philip Sullivan. Here we go. Hey, it's my pleasure to welcome one of our clients to the show, and that is Mr. Philip Sullivan. Remember, you're listening to Flashback Friday. Our new episodes are published every Monday and Wednesday. I met him several years ago. He was a podcast listener and came to one of our events in Southern California. And he's just got an awesome story. And I got to tell you listeners and Philip, this is way overdue. We should have had him on the show a long time ago. Many of you have met Philip at our events before. He was at the last Meet Meet the Masters event that we had in January. And, you know, he's just a great guy and he's got a great story. So. Phil, Philip, welcome. How you doing?

Hey, Jason, how are you?

Good, good. It's great to have you on the show. Like I said, this is long overdue. We should have done this two, three years ago.

I think I was the reluctant podcaster.

You were a little reluctant. I had to twist your arm a little bit. But I just hit you up today and sent you a note and you said yes. So I thought, let's do this. This is awesome. Well, hey, you got a really great story and I just wanted you to maybe take the listeners through it and let's talk about some of the tips and tricks that, you know, you've learned over the years as an investor and stuff like that. So it all Started with. You found my podcast. Right? Tell us, tell us how it evolved.

Yeah, I discovered your podcast, I think, back in the winter of, oh, seven. So right before the crash. And.

And so I started listening, I think, in December. And as soon as I heard it, I was like, man, it's good. So I, I just started going through all of them and I. I've actually heard all of your podcasts.

Every single one of them?

Yeah, I think so.

Wow.

So you 2000, 2007 and you found you just. What did you do, find the podcast on itunes? Just searching real estate investing or.

No one went to your first event In, I think, 2008, I think. And, and yeah, I went there to your creating wealth.

Show there and didn't, you know, didn't invest for a little while because with my work I fix hell damaged cars. So I travel all over the US So it was kind of hard for me to, you know, think about investing in real estate while I was traveling. So then I started thinking about hard money lending, and so I started doing that with your Georgia provider.

In 2012. 2011. Yeah, it was fall of 2011.

Right. And I think I remember your first deal. You know, you didn't start out with an actual real estate deal. You started out by becoming a lender on real estate. And I think your first deal, if I recall, and you know, correct me, because I may not remember this correctly, but I think it was like a small $40,000 hard money loan, and you probably got, I assume, something like 12% on that deal. Was that about. Right? Was that your first deal with us?

Yeah, I think it was, and it was 12%. But then I quickly. There was another provider there in Phoenix who was doing 12% plus a $500 upfront fee. So I went back to the Georgia provider and asked for $500 up front plus 12%, and they matched it. So I stuck with them and did a bunch of loans with them. Actually became one of their primary, you know, money sources at one point. And yeah, so that's how I got started in real estate.

Yeah. Fantastic. Good. And so how many loans did you do? Because most people that come to us, they start out by buying properties. You started out by doing loans. How many loans did you do before you did your first real estate deal where you actually purchased an income property?

Probably, I don't know, maybe like 10 or 15, something like that.

That helped you just build up more and more capital and you have your own company, so you were working your business at the same time. And. And when did you acquire your first income property.

My first property was I think the spring of 2012. So yeah, I bought property and kind of east of Atlanta and, and that my first property actually turned out to be one had I was forced to sell because the hoa we had gone over the number of rental properties.

Oh yeah, yeah.

That could be in that neighborhood. So I had, I had to sell it actually. They sued me actually.

Boy, that's amazing. And by the way, let me just explain to the listeners what happened on that deal. So this is another one of the reasons I really despise condos. But this is not a condo we're talking about. But it's just, it's even they get more strict. It's unusual that we see this in single family homes, but you see it more in the condo townhome thing. But basically an HOA can believe it or not dictate, you know, what the rental requirements are, how long or short properties can be rented. And you know, some of our clients are toying a little bit with like the Airbnb thing or, or you know, doing renting their properties on short term rentals. And some HOAs just completely won't allow that. Some cities even have problems with it. You know, they can restrict, they can say we don't want more than, you know, 10% renters in the community or 20% or whatever the number they pick is. So. Yeah, that's amazing. So you sold that one. Was the market going in your direction, by the way?

It definitely was. It was an appreciating market.

It.

And I made, I think I made about 20,000 on that property. So.

Okay, so it turned out good. Nothing to complain about really.

No, it turned out good. And after my first one, I am, I, you know, quickly gained confidence and I saw how, you know, basically simple it is to purchase properties. And so I quickly just started buying more properties after that. And since I was funding the deals, you know, I saw, you know, everything up front. So I would pretty much just pick one if I wanted to keep it or just lend on it. And they would go on, you know, go on out.

Okay, let me mention something about that. So we've had this kind of odd scenario happen sometimes. You know, in every product there's a supply chain. Okay. You know, with real estate there's a supply chain too. Right. So did you, I'm wondering. And we had this happen a few times and probably happened a few times with you too, but I don't know yet. We'll see how you answer the question. Did you Actually lend on a property to our local market specialist, and you were the hard money lender. They rehabbed the property. Then you bought the same property on which you made the loan for them to acquire and rehab it. Did you do that?

Yeah, I did.

How many times did you do that one?

I did it most of the time.

Oh, really? That was the way you did it most of the time, huh? So you really knew the ins and outs of that deal. I mean, you saw the margins that the rehabber or the local market specialist was making on the deal and, you know, you were the lender, so you got paid, you know, maybe somewhere in the neighborhood of 12% to loan the money, and then you bought the property and turned it into an income property and kept it.

Right, right.

Okay. Do you want to expand on that idea a little bit? Is there more to it?

Well, I just think that if you can. I kind of like doing this, basically. I like to concentrate at this point on one market mostly. And if you can do the lending, it's nice because you get to know the area, you get to see the prices, what's going on, and you get to see these properties up front and you get to pick the property that you want. I just think it puts you in the advantage.

I think it's a good way to go if you can do it.

So you started in 2000 and you met us in two. Well, you learned about the podcast 2007. You came to an event in 2008, you started saving money, building capital, and then you started lending and you did quite a few loans on properties and then you purchased your first property and it was one on which you lent. So. And you did it that way a bunch of times. So how many properties do you have now?

Yeah, well, I got my first property in 2012 and then so I ended up getting seven in Atlanta.

And these are, these are like the little bit higher end houses in the 140 to 150 range. And then I got.

I was closed on my first triplex in Kansas City, and that's one of those nice ones. And then I'm under contract on three other triplexes in Kansas City and two fourplexes in Little Rock.

Oh, fantastic. You're, you're, you're becoming, you're building an empire. Congratulations.

I tried it.

Yeah. So you mentioned on. And this is really kind of one of the, one of the tips, you know, and one of the things, things maybe listeners want to hear about and we honestly, within our company, we really wrestle with this. Okay. And you know For a long time, Philip, and you probably have noticed this, the changes in our inventory of properties over the years, because I'm sure you're, you know, going to the website and looking at the properties we have listed online. Like when you first came in contact with us, we were doing pretty much all kind of class A, maybe a little bit of class class B type, nicer properties. And of course you typically get a much better tenant in those properties. But you know, typically also your numbers aren't quite as good, at least on the, on the face of it. Okay, have you, have you stuck with, you said Atlanta, Little Rock, where else do you own?

Kansas City.

Kansas City. Okay, so in those three markets have you stuck with the higher priced income properties? And when we say higher price price, by the way, folks, we're talking 150,000. It's not that expensive as real estate goes. But you know, we do these, you know, low priced, cash flow oriented markets and that is sort of class A for our type of world that we're in. Have you stuck with that or have you done some of the lower end like class C type properties? And if so, you know, what differences have you noticed?

Yeah, I've only stuck with it Class A type, higher end houses because I was really trying to maximize my leverage per mortgage for Fannie.

And that was my main reason. I was trying to maximize the amount of leverage I could get. I wouldn't be averse to getting lower priced houses, but that's what I was trying to do and that's why I really went to Kansas City, because each mortgage was so high. Basically a 400,000 for a Fannie mortgage, 30 year fix for five and a quarter is just great. And you've really got me into the idea of going into debt at fixed rates.

Yeah, right, exactly, exactly. No, that long term fixed rate debt is pretty darn appealing. It really is. So with your first property that you, you know, resold rather quickly, you made $20,000 on that one and you had some loans, you were making some money on the loans, you were working in your business. How did the other properties go as you went along? And I'm kind of wondering why you stuck with the nicer side, the class A type properties.

Well, it was mostly for the leverage and I was thinking that the nicer houses might see better appreciation. And you know, the house Is in the 140, 150 range and this is prices in 2012, 2013. So they were a little lower at that point. These houses are now worth around 170 175. Now.

I was looking for that appreciation and then the good leverage and ideally having good tenants. And for the most part, I have had good tenants, but I've had two that just walked off and just left. They left a mess, too. So it can happen. It can happen with any house, I guess.

Right, right. So how did that go? Did you recover from the security deposit or was it over the security deposit? And if so, did you pursue a judgment against the tenants and send it to collection or what happened with those? You know, we want to hear about the bad experiences, too. It's not all rosy, folks.

Yeah, I had a property management place a judgment on them and haven't collected any money yet. But, yeah, I got their deposit and that helped, too. So it wasn't too bad.

So when things like that happen, what did you think? Did it ever occur that maybe this real estate thing isn't really the right thing to do and you're just going to give up? Or are you still? Or did you just kind of keep the faith and keep going and moving forward?

I really just wanted to keep moving forward because I knew there were just bumps in the road.

But.

One lesson that taught me a little bit, particularly the houses that are rehabbed, is I think it's worth getting an inspection on each property. I didn't get inspection on any of them, and I think it is worth getting an inspection.

Oh, I definitely agree with that. You should get inspections, Philip, for sure.

And I think one thing to really look for is the roof. You know, at what stage is that roof in, you know, how old is it? You know, how much more life could you expect out of it? I think that's pretty big. You know, it's a big expense that's going to come up.

Oh, yeah, no question. No question. It's going to come up eventually. In fact, I just sold one of my properties that was a North Carolina property because, you know, I knew I wasn't too far away from hearing about a roof. And. And, you know, and then. And then the buyer that purchased it from me and I did a 1031 exchange and bought two properties in Memphis, actually, by selling that one. But the buyer that purchased it from me, of course, they hit me up after their inspection and said, hey, you know, this is going to need a roof. And I said that. I know. That's why I'm selling. That's one of the reasons. And, you know, I'm not. I'm not giving you any more money. Okay. You got to just take it like it is you, you know, you saw that the roof was old when you bought it. So you know, that's.

That is what it is. And they still went through with the deal and bought it. And I usually say, you know, keep your properties 27 and a half years kind of jokingly because that's the depreciation schedule. And if any of you listening have properties older or not older than, but that you've owned longer than 27.5 years, you really, really, really, really really should, should consider selling them because you've run your depreciation schedule and it just makes sense to get another property and start that schedule again. The property doesn't need to be new, it just needs to be new to you. And one of the great things is you can do a 1031 tax deferred exchange and exchange it and not pay the tax. You just defer the tax indefinitely. So I think the roof is a very good point because roofs are not cheap. That is one that's probably, you know, probably the most expensive item. I mean, I don't know, there can be other things occasionally too, but those are sort of surprise things. The roof is one, you know, about.

Two other things I thought of. One was definitely get termite treatment on each house and that this is something I didn't think about. No one really talked about it. And I did that for all my houses.

You mean a preventative, a preventative treatment, right?

All right.

Yeah, yeah, tell us about that. I mean how much did that cost? What kind of treatment did you get?

I got a five year bond and I think it was $500. It was normally more but I got a deal with the recommended vendor who does it. He treated each house. So I got a really good price. And then it has $125 renewal fee per year.

After the five years or each year? During the five years?

Each year during the five years.

You know, that also depend what area you're in. So you know, some areas are much more prone to termite issues. And I think Atlanta would be. You've got a lot in Atlanta. What are the age of your properties? You know, you've got these properties, Little Rock, Atlanta, Kansas City. What, what age range are they usually.

They will be Atlanta houses are all 1987 to like early 2000s.

And then the Little Rock properties, I think the two fourplexes are 1970s I think. And then the Kansas City multi units are all new construction and some of them aren't even constructed yet.

Right, right. Just a reminder, you're listening to Flashback Friday, our New episodes are published every Monday and every Wednesday.

And which do you have a favorite out of the three markets that you're in? Or. Or maybe another market that you're looking at?

Not really the. I like the appreciation of Atlanta, you know, with the houses, but I'm going to like the cash flow from Little Rock and Kansas City with multi units. So I think it's just a nice portfolio all combined. Really?

Yeah. Kind of diversify it and spread it around like that. Do you think you'll move into another market? I mean, I think three is enough, but you know, I'd say to people they could do up to five. Or are you going to just keep kind of doubling down in those areas that you're in?

Yeah, I think I'll. I'll probably just double down on the areas I'm in. I might be tempted by some other market if something attractive comes along, but I would be okay with just staying in those three markets, really.

How long have you owned in Little Rock? And the reason I ask you about Little Rock in particular is because Arkansas is the most landlord friendly state in the country by a long shot. And it's really, really landlord friendly. So I'm kind of curious to see how your experience plays out there over the years. It's probably too new to tell, but how long have you owned in there now? Have you been. Has it been a year yet or a little more than a year?

No, I'm actually just under contract. I haven't actually made the purchase yet.

Oh, okay. Okay.

Yeah, yeah, I've got a lot of contracts right now.

Yeah. So what do you think about that market?

I think it looks good. I mean, it looks stable to me.

And I'm not really expecting appreciation much, but I do like it from a stability standpoint. And with the units that I'll have, they're overpriced. So.

I like the idea of having properties rented to people with lower incomes and more middle class incomes. Not. Not just concentrate on one income, but have multiple income tenants.

So what we're talking about there is you're not only Philip segmenting what I always say, take the most historically proven asset class and diversify geographically because all real estate is local. And you've been to so many of my events and listened to every single podcast, which, by the way, you deserve an award for that.

You've heard me say this stuff a million times. But you're not just diversifying geographically because all real estate is local. Right. But you're also diversifying in terms of market segments by Having those different income ranges in your portfolio. Right. Those different types of tenant classes.

Yeah. So as the economy, if it gets worse or better, you're more covered that way. It's more safe.

I agree with you. And the other thing that people will notice if, if things do get really bad again at any point, the thing that they'll notice is they catch people on their way down. I mean, it's not as positive of an environment, but, you know, you're providing housing to people who are moving down the economic ladder. You know, in bad times and in good times, you're providing housing to people who are moving up the economic ladder. So you know that that's why we like the properties that are below the median price in any given market. And by the way, I got a comment on your Atlanta stuff because last year, I mean, it's about 10% appreciation in that market. You've done phenomenally well.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know if you even know that. Do you keep track of the prices of your properties or. You know, I kind of tell investors not to worry about that too much because it's really a cash flow game. But gosh, it's nice when appreciation does happen, right?

Yeah, I don't really invest, but I did look a few months ago, really for the first time, and that's when I saw some of the houses were worth in the 170s what I paid in the 140 for.

Yeah, that's great. And are you leveraging your properties or you paying cash for them?

I paid cash for them up front, but I do the cash out refinance on every single one of them.

Oh, have you completed those cash out refis? Yeah. Okay, good, good. And what, what's your thing with management? Do you always use the property manager or do you self manage or do you have a blend in your portfolio where you're, you know, self managing and using professional managers?

Yeah, I use property management for all of them. I, I've been, you know, I've been happy with it, really.

And I'm really kind of excited about the property management in Kansas City, which are provider there, because I think it's going to be really good from what I've heard from other clients.

Good, good stuff. As you know, I had some problems with a Kansas City property manager a while back. I think you know about that story. We're working on that one and I, I kind of try to wait till these things sort of play out completely before I talk about them on the show because I just, I don't have enough to say really yet, but more to come on that one. Do you have any tips that you want to share is, you know, in terms of how you manage your portfolio, how you keep track of it, how you deal with property managers, your philosophies on financing, just any part of it that maybe we haven't discussed yet?

Well, one thing I thought of was with hoas.

When you buy a property, you have to want to make sure you know who the HOA is. A name or a phone. Get a name or a phone number. Because if you don't, you're definitely gonna at some point find out.

Yeah, I know what you're about to say, I think, yeah, like I did.

I did on a couple properties, maybe even two or three, and got late fees, collection fees and stuff.

So let me explain that to the listeners. Let me just elaborate on what you're talking about and interrupt me if I'm not talking about the same thing, but I think I am. And this has also happened to me, okay? This is the reason we say everybody should go to the uspto, the post office website, okay? And every, I think it's every year for $1 is all it costs. Or you can do it for free. If you just go to the post office and pick up the little paper form that it's like a little postcard sort of thing that you, you just put in a mailbox and they do it. Always forward the mail to yourself from every one of your properties because it just invariably is going to happen probably with the homeowners association, the hoa, but it could also happen with the tax collector or the insurance company or the lender, and you do not want this to happen, is that they will send the statement to the person property rather than to your address. Then they'll say, hey, you know, your association fee, which you really only owe $300 in fees now because you didn't pay it and you didn't even know it was due, right, you didn't pay it. You know, you now owe us $650 because we've tacked on late fees and a legal fee and some of this kind of stuff. So really, really, really, really be careful of that. It's one of the little minefields that you've got to plan for. Do that forwarding address. Now just understand too, the forwarding address goes by name, so it won't affect your tenant in the property at all, okay? But if you purchase the property in the name of an entity like say you set up an llc, you should forward Both your personal name. So in your case, you know, Philip Sullivan or abc, llc. Right. When you do that. Because that will really, really help prevent this kind of problem. And one of the other things that some of our clients have been using very successfully is these virtual mailboxes. And there are several services that offer this where they. It's really helpful to organize yourself and make it a lot easier. What they do is they receive your mail just like, you know, a P.O. box would or the UPS store would. But they open it and they scan it and they put it onto a web portal that is password protected. And you go in and you just look at your mail online. And if there's a check in there, you can actually instruct them to deposit that check to, you know, whichever of any various accounts you might have, and they'll actually deposit your checks. It's pretty cool. Do you use something like that?

No, I don't, but it sounds nice.

Yeah. I can get you the names of some of them. You know, who's using one. It's really great. Is Fernando. He just loves it. And, you know, they deposit all his checks. He showed it to me, you know, last time he was on it several months ago, when I happened to be near him on the computer, he said, jason, you gotta use this. Look, he's just going through his mail, and it's just on the screen, you know, you don't have to open anything, you know, so it's great, you know, and it's sort of amazing the whole postal system doesn't work that way, frankly, because it should. But that's a different discussion. Yeah. Let me give a couple names for the listeners on that. Okay. One's called Virtual Post Mail, and that's virtual postmail.com. another one, all I did is I searched it well while you were talking. Okay. One's called travel travelingmailbox.com travelingmailbox.com and another one is called usglobalmail.com and another one's called postscanmail.com. there's a whole bunch of them out there. So just, you know, put it in a search engine. Notice how I did not say Google.

Just my own personal thing. Put it on Bing and search it. Just search Virtual Mailbox. You'll find a bunch of companies offering this service. And it's cheap and it's great. And especially for someone like you who's traveling a lot because your business takes you to all these different locations.

Oh, yeah, yeah. That would be very handy.

Good. Well, Philip, your story is super inspiring, and I thank you so much for sharing it with our listeners. What's next for you? What are you planning? Where are you going to be buying your next properties, you think?

Probably either Little Rock or Kansas City. Most likely Kansas City, maybe new construction, Multifamily.

Yeah, good. Good stuff. And when you say multifamily, you're talking about, you know, four plexes, triplexes, that kind of stuff. Right?

Right. Yeah.

Well, again, thank you so much for sharing your very inspiring story. We appreciate your business and appreciate having you on the show, too.

What's great about the shows you'll find find on jasonhartman.com is that if you want to learn how to finance your next big real estate deal, there's a show for that. If you want to learn more about food storage and the best way to keep those onions from smelling up everything else, there's a show for that. If you honestly want to know more about business ethics, there's a show for that. And if you just want to get away from it all and need to know something about world travel, there's even a show for that. Yep, there's a show for just about anything Only from Jason Hartman.com or type in Jason Hartman in the iTunes store.

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