CW 992 - Crowding Out, Hard Assets & Technology to Help Make Your Investing Easier with Homee

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to episode 992. 992. This is Jason Hartman, your host and thank you so much for joining me and thank you for listening all of these years. I know most of you are very regular listeners and we so much appreciate that. If you're new to the show, be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any episodes. This is all good free stuff and it is a little eclectic. I gotta warn you, the show is eclectic. Yes. This Hartman guy is all over the board, isn't he? Yes, he is. Well, today we are going to feature that episode with one of the tools, how I talk about how real estate investing is just getting better and better. One of the tools to make your life as an investor even easier. And there's a lot more coming down the pike where this came from because it is an amazing time to be alive and it's an amazing time to be a real estate investor. However, before we move forward with some of your comments and questions today, because I know, I know I'm way behind on taking your course questions, they are stacked up. I am looking at a spreadsheet here with literally. Well, this spreadsheet's got 35 questions. And then I got other tabs in this spreadsheet with, oh, we got what, 47 questions here? Aye, aye, aye, folks, what I need is I need a co host to come on and ask the questions for me, then I will answer them and then they need to shut me up in relatively short order because, you know, I tend to go on and on and you heard my rant on the last episode, my rant about Starbucks. So before we get into the real estate thing, sometimes I talk about stuff and say, did I really make my point? I don't know if I did. So let me just make it quickly and then we'll move on. So my complaint about all the libertarians, of which I consider myself one of them, is that they say, well, you know, if Starbucks is serving poison, then just don't eat it, don't, don't drink it, don't eat it. Right? I want you to understand this concept. Now, I talked on the last episode about the concept of crowding out, right? Crowding out because we live in a winner take all society. The way financing is done through Wall street, the way companies do IPOs, and the high regulatory environment makes it impossible for new entrants to compete with. Very rarely do we see a new competitor. How many new startups have you seen that are competing with Goldman Sachs or for that matter, Starbucks? Yes, the poison purveyors. Starbucks. By the way, it's not technically poison, it's just really poison from a practical standpoint because it's junk and Everybody complains about McDonald's. Well, nobody's complaining about Starbucks except yours truly. So here's the thing. Crowding out. It's just like what happened in health care with Obamacare, right? The government comes in, the government doesn't have to play by the same rules and they have unlimited ability to just print money and they get to make the laws in their own favor. So they crowd out, they crowd competitors out of the marketplace because who can compete with that, right? And if you see the disaster of Obamacare over the last several years, I mean, when I lived in Arizona, I'm relatively healthy. I don't use the medical system too much, right? I mean, I use a little bit, but not too much. And I try to eat pretty well and I exercise and you know, I'm doing my part here, right? My health insurance when I lived in Arizona was almost, it was, what was it, like 900 and something per month. I couldn't believe it how it went up after Obamacare. Right? It went through the roof. Crowding out, crowding out, right. Making laws or having an environment where everybody's crowded out. So I said when I was in Tampa and I tried to do that experiment of, well, then this morning, I'm not going to eat at Starbucks. I'm going to cast my vote as a consumer and I'm going to go get my coffee somewhere else and I'll get a little breakfast snack somewhere else. Type in coffee shop into the gps. Good luck. They've all been crowded out. There's no other choice. There's a concept I want you to understand, the concept of a desert, right? We know what a desert is, right? Well, there are various types of deserts. There are capital markets deserts, there are investment property deserts where you can't find any property that makes sense. You probably live in an investment property desert, don't you? I bet you do. If you're listening to this, I'll bet you 60 to 70% of you dear listeners right now live in an investment property desert. Meaning that you can't find a property in your area that makes sense because you probably live in a high priced market or a relatively high priced market, a cyclical market or at least a hybrid market where the properties are too expensive. So you are in an investment property desert. Okay, there's another thing I first heard this term from was the food babe. Yes. What's her name? Vani Hari or something like that. Anyway, the food babe, that's her brand. Check out her stuff. She's good. Okay, so the food babe said there are food deserts, okay? And I'm gonna get her on the show. We just gotta call her up and invite her on the show because her stuff's good. You'll like it. We'll do that as a 10th episode when we go off topic. Right, so it's a coffee desert. It's a coffee shop desert. It's a food desert. These big giant companies. Yeah, I get it. That you don't have to eat their food or Dr. Their stuff, but try finding an alternative. They've crowded everybody out. Okay, good luck, libertarian friends. I know, I'm one. I agree with you philosophically, but just look around. How's it working? Guess what? The whole country is obese and diabetic and everybody's sick. We can't totally blame them. They live in a food desert. It's a food desert created by the corporatocracy. They have so manipulated our taste buds so that regular natural food doesn't taste good or exciting anymore. It's this desensitization because they. They just chemically engineered all the food. Right? It's a food desert. Everything has been crowded out. Okay, my point is made. I will shut up. Let's move on. A couple of your questions and comments. Blake Bauman, thank you for this one. What motivated you to take action and purchase your first income property? Passive cash flow. Well, you know what I say about that, Blake? It's not really passive, but I get what you mean. Just know that Hartman says there is no such thing as a passive investment. Not even a savings account, not even a bank account. Okay? It's not passive because you are getting destroyed by taxes and inflation. Okay? And then your Second thing that got you into it was, was tax savings. Well, we've got the most tax favored asset class in America. And the third one was the stock market and other forms of saving for retirement peddled by financial advisors are rigged. I love it that you use the word rigged, Blake. That was really good because I plan to produce a documentary called Rigged. I've told you about that before. It's like the slowest moving project ever. I got all these incredibly slow moving projects. If any of you listening have some talents and abilities or connections that can help with any of these projects, I'd like to take them off the back burner and bring them to a boil. Okay, so let me know. Jason hartman.com Ask questions, comments, suggestions, referrals, whatever talents that you have that we can use. Hey, you know, speaking of the deserts, right, the food, desert, etc. Etc. You know, I. Something is bugging me. It's bugging me about the way we spend money in my company, okay? Or my companies. We spend all of this money, lots and lots and lots and lots of money every month, every year, and we're spending it with virtual strangers. Why aren't we supporting our own more often? That's what I'd like to do. So if you have a skill or a service or a business that we can use, or you freelance on the side and it's something that we can use, hit us up. Jason hartman.com Ask because we would love to spend money with you, our customers, our listeners, our clients. Why are we giving our money to strangers for all these services that we use? You know, we should keep it all in the family, okay? And that's what we'd like to do. So just keep that in mind. If you or anybody, you know has something that they can help us with, whether it be web development, programming, video production, blogging, whatever, you know, let us know. Jasonartman.com ask okay, Blake's goal is to have 10 to 20 single family homes by the time he retires. I gotta read this in the right person, right? My goal, he says, is to have 10 to 20 single family homes by the time I retire so that I can have a stream of income that will match my monthly income that I would have earned while working. Okay? So that's a fantastic goal. And you know what? It's very realistic. Now the one thing you didn't say is when you're going to retire. Because if you're going to retire next month, it may not be realistic. But you know, time passes so quickly. That's the Great thing about real estate investing, we put time on our side, we put irresponsible government spending that causes inflation on our side. We put all these things on our side. The things that most people dread the they are our friends as real estate investors. Okay, Craig Bellinger, what did you say? You got interested and took action to purchase your first property because you wanted to learn more about real estate investing? No better way to learn than by doing it. I decided it was the best investment for me and for my family to secure our financial future. I believe that making the right investments and managing them wisely will give me a better retirement than the usual retirement plans employers provide. Well, you couldn't be more right about that, Craig, I'll tell you that. I mean, the kind of junk financial advice, it's like a food desert, okay? You know, it's a financial advice desert. That's what Wall street has created because Wall street has largely crowded everything out. I mean, why is it that. You see these, these commercials? I remember that TD Ameritrade commercial, you know, with a wise conservative guy who's the actor, whatever his name is. I think it was on maybe Law and Order or something like that. Anyway, good actor, great actor, right. And they paid him, of course, a zillion dollars to do the commercial.

And the commercial says, you know, if.

You'Re an investor, as if the only types of investors invest in the criminal syndicate known as Wall Street. Right? That's what investors do. These other little characters with their real estate and stuff, we don't even consider them investors. We're not even going to include them in the definition of investor. And yet, of course, when they make their money, those Wall street crooks, what do they do with it? Well, a lot of them put it into real estate because they know better. They know it's the modern version of organized crime. So. Yeah, you're absolutely right about that, Craig. Okay, and your goal is, you said, I want to have more freedom when it comes to my finances. My long term goal is to have 15 to 20 properties by the time my son graduates from college in about 16 years. You know what? You can do that, no problem. That is a very, very realistic goal. I mean, all you have to do is buy one a year. But here's the thing, Craig. The quicker you buy those, you know, sacrifice today, don't sacrifice everything. You know, live a little bit, right? But have the discipline, of course, to delay gratification because the sooner you get those properties, the sooner, sooner you lock in on these low rates that are going up. By the way, of course we know that. But then again, don't listen to me for interest rate predictions because I've been terribly wrong, I will admit that. But I think this time is pretty clear. You know, the Fed has stated that they're raising rates like three, four more times. So I guess it's going to happen. And by the way, little disclaimer, little education on that. They don't directly control mortgage, mortgage rates but they indirectly control them. So they're influenced obviously, but that's a totally realistic goal. But the sooner you accumulate those properties, the better off you'll be and the easier it will be to get them at the end. So if you can accumulate 5 to 10 properties in short order in the next couple years. Right. I don't know how many you have now, by the way, of course, I don't know that here. But then the extra, you know, 10 or you know, to get to 15 or 20 will become much easier over the years and you'll have them long before your son graduates. Okay. Okay. Lena says she got into it for passive income in order to spend more time with my daughters. That's a great goal. My long term goal is to have enough passive income coming that we're be able to travel with church missions and build communities. That is awesome, totally awesome goal. And just be careful in those foreign countries. I went on a church mission once and you know, you go to some kind of risky places there sometimes, so be a little careful there. Okay. Matthew Brill, we know you. Okay. So desire for cash flow assets and to do better than the market, meaning the stock market, I'm sure and have control accountability of people in my social circle. I don't know exactly what you mean by that, but if it comes to the general thought of commandment number three, which that may not be what you mean, but I'll say it anyway. Thou shalt maintain control. You know, nothing offers better control than income property investments. So that is a fantastic reason. Okay. Your long term goal, long term wealth with multiple cash flow streams to give me the ability to work when I want, live where I want and do what I want. Income property will be my main source of cash flow. Fantastic. I absolutely love it, Matthew. That's a great, great goal. Thank you for sharing. And you know, I can't pronounce all these last names, so. Steven. Okay, Steven, you got into it because you wanted to get out of the rat race. Very good goal. I would like to be by at least one rental property per year for the next 10 years. My passive cash flow is $10,000 per month. Hey, you know what I want to do folks? I want to take a little break right now, just for for a couple of minutes. And I want to play the winning video of the five year plan. You heard it before on the show once a couple of months ago. But let's just. It's only a couple minutes long. It's really quick. Let's just play that right now because it's so applicable to what we're talking about with income property. So play that video that Michelle made.

Hi, my name is Michelle and this is my husband Phil.

Hello.

Hi, I'm Marcina.

I'm Sophie. We're the Hawkins family and this is.

Our five year plan. Our five year plan centers around three main areas of health, wealth and family. Area number one, health. It all starts here. I've learned that healthy habits are the cornerstone for a successful life. If you don't have your health, it's really hard to achieve your other goals. So in these next five years, we will focus on getting quality sleep, daily exercise and eating fresh organic meals. We enjoy eating a paleo inspired diet. Area number two, wealth. We want to achieve financial freedom in five years. Step one is to build passive income through rental properties.

Because income property is the most historically proven asset class in the world.

Thanks, Jason. Our current portfolio contains 10 units. It brings in passive income of about $3,500 per month. That's about 29% of our monthly expenses. However, if we want to cover 100% of our expenses, we need about $12,000 a month in passive income. So how will we achieve that in five years? It's simple. If we buy eight units per year for the next five years, we will end up with a total of 50 units. With 50 units, our monthly passive income will be about $15,000. Assuming an average of about $300 a month per unit, that's enough to pay our expenses with room to spare. Step number two is to fire fills up.

Boss.

I'm going to retire early from teaching and build a media production business producing video and audio from my own studio.

Area number three is family. We want to spend our time doing what matters most. Making memories, traveling the world and becoming the best possible versions of ourselves. With our increased financial security, we can achieve a better work life balance. We want to explore explore the world together and share in amazing experiences. In the next five years, I want to take my mom back to Korea and meet my relatives.

I want to go to Paris.

I want to eat sushi in Japan.

I want to Travel to Tierra del Fuego and see Antarctica and the penguins.

And when we're not traveling, we'll be pursuing our passions. I love reading, going to see shows with my friends and trying new restaurants and exotic cuisines. And I'm going to start a blog. I'm going to publish my first novel.

And learn how to drive. I want to act in a show.

I have lots of music that I want to record and perform. And I'm going to earn a degree in kinesiology.

But most of all, we want to spend time with our family and friends because that's what really matters.

Okay. Wasn't that excellent?

Really?

I love the way she defined it. She really just. It's, of course, a simplified approach, but it just makes it so clear, right? It makes it so clear. And having these long term goals for your income property portfolio will help get you through the hard times. You're going to have some hard times. It's just life. All of us, we're all mature adults, we understand that this is not cryptocurrency speculation where you lose your shirt. But hey, you'll make money for a while maybe and love it. It's not speculative. This is real investing in real stuff, the real way.

Right?

Passive cash flow. $10,000 per month is totally achievable. Of course, this all depends how you structure your portfolio, et cetera, et cetera. Okay, Ken Cheeseman, we know you. You got into it. You started investing for financial freedom and for retirement. You have set the number NC, make it specific. Right. I need 20 properties, exclamation point. That's exactly what you said. Okay. Cody Coffin, we know you. Yes.

My wife Cassie and I are in the process of purchasing our first income property. Thank you to Kerry. Kerry's one of our great investment counselors. What motivated me was the knowledge I gained from listening to Andy Tanner's 401 chaos book.

Yeah, that's a good name.

I shared the stage with Andy Tanner actually just about. About two months ago. Three months. Gosh, time goes so fast. About three months ago in Scottsdale, Arizona at Ken McElroy's event. And the wealth strategist at Paradigm Life. Well, Patrick Donahoe has been on the show and so is Gary Pinkerton. Are. They're both clients of ours and they were sponsors of our Meet the Masters event. So they are super helpful guys and have really. They really help define and lay out some roadmaps for people's plans. Okay. They taught me the shortcomings of existing retirement programs. I've also learned about the hidden tax called inflation and the Creature from Jekyll island by G. Edward Griffin. Now, I hope you learned that stuff from me because I've talked about that stuff extensively. As you know, Cody, all of this knowledge I have gained has taught me that I need to invest in hard assets that keep up with inflation in order to excel and survive financially. Absolutely. But these hard assets, as you know, dramatically beat inflation because you leverage them. Right? You leverage them. Okay. And then on your long term goals. Hey, you are citing one of an author that I really like. I read this book and I bought the course but didn't finish it. You know, we get busy. Okay. It's Simon Sinek I'm referring to. He has a great TED talk on the why. The why, right. And I view this business, my company, exactly the way he talks about it. I have a very strong why. It is to save people from the modern version of organized crime known as Wall Street. The modern version of organized crime. That is my mission in life with this company. Okay. Cody says I've learned from Simon Sinek's why Discovery course, which I highly recommend, that my purpose, purpose in life is to learn and share financial education so that others become empowered to achieve financial stability. Income property will help us achieve these goals by providing financial security and someday financial freedom, which will allow me to pursue my dreams in life. Cody, that's totally awesome. Great, great goal. Thank you all for sharing that.

We'll have more.

And we got a bunch of your questions. We've got answers or two. But before I go too long today, I want to share that little clip for you about this app, this tool again illustrated as I mentioned on Monday's episode, more as a conceptual thing just to show you what is coming, what is making your income, property, investing, career so much easier. Tools like this. And there are just more and more coming. You know, that's one of the great things about the world today, right? All we have to do is sit back and patiently wait. And we know that almost not completely, because I think as far as the culture war goes, life's actually getting a lot worse. But hey, that's a rabbit hole that you don't have three hours to go down with me. Right? So I'll leave that one alone. But, but as far as technology and tools, we just all know it's just going to keep getting better. It's an amazing time to be alive. It really is an amazing time to be alive. We'll share a little clip I did at a conference about one of those tools here in Just a moment. Of course. Join US in Philadelphia May 19th. This event was really selling at a fast pace and I thought it would still sell out, but with just a little less than a month away, we are not sold out yet. So come and join us. We'd love to have you there. This is our only Creating wealth event this year. This is the core seminar, the one I've been doing for 14 years. It is by and large the most popular and we're adding something to it this time. Of course it changes every time. You know, if you've been before, you're really need to come once a year. It's always being updated. But a major change to it is we are going to borrow a version of the portfolio builder game from Jason Hartman University from JHU and we're going to do it at this event. This is the first time ever we've never done that before at the Creating wealth seminar. So it's a one day event in Philadelphia. Go to Jason Hartman.com, click on Events and get registered for that and we'd love to see you there. It'll be a great time. And then the following weekend, I'm staying back east all that week and the following weekend we are going to have our Venture alliance mastermind in the Big Apple in New York City. So you can consider joining us for that as well. And without further ado, let's look at one of these apps that is going to make your investing career that much easier.

Hey, so I'm always talking about how there are all these great services revolutionizing the real estate investing business for our investors and I want to talk to you about another one. I'm here with Sarah McFarland. She is with Homeie on Demand. That's H o M E E and this is a great service.

It's to use a cliche in the.

Tech world you hear all the time. I'm going to call it the Uber of home repair. You've probably said that or heard it before, right Sarah?

We certainly have good stuff.

So tell us about Homey. And your background is in property management, right?

It is.

I've been in property management for about 16 years and I've managed anywhere from, you know, commercial, residential to industrial, most recently with the single family rental space. Previously we had about 10,000 single family rentals that we managed across the country. And our app facilitates residents with our maintenance and vendors to be able to provide essentially an on demand experience for them so that our owners are able to quickly approve and review maintenance requests while still being able to Provide on demand service to our residents.

Okay, so here's the self management opportunity. Now you can use this with a property manager or if you're self managing your properties from a distance, it's great because basically, as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, the tenant can download the app, your tenants, they can request a repair, and then you get a notification on your app as the owner or the landlord, and you can approve or deny the repair. And then there's some really attractive features as far as far as pricing because you tie in with the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the BLS data on what these vendors of H VAC services, plumbing, handyman services, electrical services, should be getting paid. And you pay them by the minute. So there's no big fat house call charge, right? Tell us more.

No, that's completely accurate. So we bill by the timer. So if a job takes 17 minutes, you're paying for 17 minutes of time. You know, historically we have vendors that will go out, they will charge us for a service call for a minimum amount of time of being on site. And with this model, this gives the owner the ability and the transparency to see that, yes, that vendor was on site, they were there for 17 minutes, and the job is complete. I paid for 17 minutes of their time.

Can the vendor cheat?

The vendor cannot cheat. So the vendor is incentivized to complete their work in a timely fashion in a couple of different ways. So we do have the rates based on the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the zip codes, of course, based on their location as well as their years of experience. So the rate is determined, you know, on those combination of factors. However, if the vendor is not rated a five star star, their earning potential decreases with every star less that they get. So for example, if they receive a four star rating, they're only eligible for 80% of that compensation. So it's in the vendor's best interests to complete the service request timely, efficiently, and very well.

Okay. And one of the other things that's really neat about this, I always like to look at things from what's called the counterparty, the other party's perspective, the counterparty to the transaction. So if you're the owner, that's the vendor of these services, that's fixing your property, and from their perspective, it's just like Lyft or Uber, because if you're a driver for Lyft or Uber, you can just turn on the app and say you'll accept calls for an hour and then turn it off and go do your other work. So Their other jobs might even be higher paying because they can rip people off with these flat fee, $150 house call charge, even if they're there for five minutes. Right, but your app and well, the homey service in general helps them fill their downtime, right?

Nope, that's exactly it. And we're working with small vendors to huge vendors, you know, to fill those schedules. And it really is at their convenience. So if they have downtime, they go online. If they're no longer available, they go offline. But what we're finding with our vendors is that we're able to fill their schedules enough that it is more advantageous for them instead of going to that one job that may or may not be repeat business because of the way they handle it. You know, here is something, it's a guaranteed job, it's ready to go and they continue. So, you know, again, it behooves them to really focus on doing a good job, getting it done right and getting it done fast.

Good stuff.

With your background in property management, I talked to you a little bit about the property management business and how I think it's dysfunctional, which a lot of businesses are dysfunctional. I mean the most dysfunctional thing ever is government. After that it's the legal profession. There's a lot of dysfunctional industries. But you know, technology is cleaning up a lot of these inefficiencies, which is great.

What do you think about using homey.

As a self manager? If you told me 10, 12 years ago that I could self manage properties that are 2,000 miles away from my home, where I've got a tenant I've never met and a property I've never seen, I would have thought you're crazy, but I've done it several times and many of our clients do it and we recommend this, actually. Tell us about how this interplays with that, if you would, and any of your thoughts on property management services in general.

So I think the biggest advantage, especially on a self managed platform, you have those immediate photos and videos and an inside glimpse into what your home looks like at that time.

You mean you get that from the vendor when you send them out to the property? Is that what you're saying? Or does the tenant upload those too?

Tenant does.

Right.

To the app? Yeah.

To initiate the request, the resident has to place the work order via the app and that comes with those photos and that description of what's wrong. So you immediately have an idea of what the actual issue is. Then when the vendor arrives, they're Going to take a bunch of before photos so you can really see the state of the union within your own house.

One question for you. Are those talking about cheating again? Are those photos GPS tagged? Do they have geotags?

Yes, they do. They do. So that you can absolutely tell that it is your home.

And they're timestamped too. So you know that the picture wasn't taken six months ago, right?

Correct. We also do require on every home, you know, because you can pull photos from the Internet, you can do all kinds of things, but we have the vendor take that timestamped photo of the front of the house with the address showing as well, so you can ensure that it's actually your house, that they're inside. Now you want to know that, hey, they're really at your property servicing something that's legitimately broken.

This is a dramatic improvement from the current system. Let me tell you. I cannot freaking believe it that whenever my property managers send me a repair request, they don't send a quote, they don't send a picture. I have to ask for all of that stuff. And even then I still don't know if it's actually a picture at my house or if you know the quote. It's just a joke. It really is.

This really should give you and all of your owners, all of your property managers much more insight to what the insides of your home looks like. But beyond that, from an analytics perspective, it should tell you, hey, this is a great asset to manage and to own because my turn costs are low, my repair costs are low, or hey, there's an issue here. We need to figure out if this is an asset I want to own. Do I want to dispo this so that I can buy something else or you know, really to manage that home effectively. And you can do that via property manager or you can do it yourself because you have the tools right on that dashboard to look at it.

Do you agree with me that the property management business is dysfunctional?

You know, I think it's, it's an ever evolving business and I think that as long as we continue to approach it with an open mindset on how we can better our business, I think that it'll always have room for improvement. But I think we do a pretty good job.

Good stuff. I just think it needs to be unbundled.

Yeah, I think so too. I think that, you know, the more that we show transparency, it's a whole lot easier when you have a service like this. You know, when you're starting to think about rent increases And ROI and you know, turn costs. If you make that resident feel like their value and like their time is valuable. You know, taking the old model into consideration, when you had a service request before someone would place a work order, you know, the property manager or the owner would have to go out, solicit a vendor, have that vendor coordinate with.

The resident, have three vendors come over and bother the resident three times instead of one. Yeah, it's so inefficient. The resident can request the repair right on the app. You get it right away and all of the other great stuff you talk to us about, it's really efficient for them. It's a win win.

The ball is back in their court and they feel like their time is valued and that you, as the owner and as the property manager value their time enough to say, okay, you can place that service request at your convenience. So if that's 8:30 at night, that's when that's going to get taken care of. No more, you know, I need to take off the day at work and who's compensating me for my time to be here. This really gives that on demand feel to the resident, but it also makes them feel, you know, like they have a stake of ownership in this as well. So, you know, that translates into much happier residents, which is lower turnover, of course. And you know, they're able to swallow that rent increase just a little bit easier. They feel like they're getting something good.

Good stuff.

Sarah McFarland, homey on demand. That's H o M e e thank you for joining us.

Thank you for having me.

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