HI 119 - Managing Property Managers & Self-Management Tenant Screening & Rent Collection with Cozy's Gino Zahnd

Welcome to the Heroic Investing Show. As first responders, we risk our lives every day. Our financial security is under attack. Our pensions are in a state of emergency. A single on duty incident can alter or erase our earning potential instantly and forever. We are the heroes of society. We are self reliant and we need to take care of our own financial future. The Heroic Investing show is our toolkit of business and investing tactics on our mission to financial freedom.

Hello and welcome to episode 119, episode 119 of the Heroic Investing show where we focus on the unique challenges faced by members of the armed services and first responders, but also those common to all investors. We help provide the tools that enable our listeners to secure their family, their future and their retirement. And we help them put in place a solid plan to replace their W2 job or trading time for dollars as I commonly call it with passive income. My name is Gary Pinkerton and I'm co hosting this show with Jason Hartman. And today we have Jason talking with the CEO of Cozy Co Cozy co named Gene Ozond. And if you haven't checked out Cozy and you're an owner of rental properties and you've ever really considered doing self management and I highly recommend it because there's a couple of really key benefits that you can get from this group and they come really at no charge. I would call it like entry level assistance and helping you do self management. You can take this and you kind of combine it with things like HomeAdvisor and Angie's List to come up with reputable individuals to help you out on the ground in the local market. Assuming you know you're doing this from afar. But the aspect that Cozy does is really helps you with rent collection and possibly screening of tenants. So it's very, it's manual but it provides a couple things that you don't have otherwise. For example, a very efficient and dependable way in which your renters can deposit money into your bank account. So it helps with that transaction. Where a lot of my property managers, for example, are requiring people to, you know, come to their office and hand them a paper check. That just seems really, really inefficient in today's world. To me it comes at no cost. I don't know exactly how Cozy makes their money on that aspect of it and maybe they don't at all. Perhaps it's, you know, it's from advertising and from the other resources, specifically their assistance in doing tenant screening. And so if you go to their website and again that's Cozy Co there's not a lot of companies out there yet that are using the CO, but it's becoming more popular. You know, you got.com, net but also now US is a very popular one and CO is becoming pretty pop. But you go there and you can see that, you know, it's very simple and free to set up the automatic direct deposit process for your tenants to put in their rents. And you can also, by the way, use this as a renter. So you could use it to for free submit your payments for rents every month for the property if you happen to be renting. But then you know, they also help with tenant screening if you choose to do that. And again, like I said, this is fairly entry level. It helps you do the screening process of getting somebody in there and then collect the rent from them. But if you're looking for more than that, if you're looking for kind of automating or putting a one stop shop for finding the tenants and doing the actual like house showing or also incorporating, you know, the make ready and things like that, or maybe a la car management services in different markets, then you know, perhaps you want to look for one of the other organizations that we have, either Jason has done on the Creating wealth show or maybe that I've interviewed here on this show already and you can reach out to me@garyarypinkerton.com and I'll get you connected up with the episodes where we've interviewed those a little more advanced or a little more involved, less do it yourself type organizations. I'll certainly get you the podcast episodes and the contact information for them. But this one is of interest specifically to me right now because I'm personally looking for, for some assistance in this area. So sue and I manage 30 units, 20 properties and we have, have those in five different markets and we happen to have seven different property managers, eight property managers, excuse me, and, and certainly we could reduce down at least to five property managers, but without having someone doing it remotely and fairly well involved into it, you're not going to get below 1 per market. And what we have found, the complexity that comes from having different managers, especially eight of them, is the fact that they, all of their documents and their processes are all a little bit different. And I find that extremely confusing, time intensive and frustrating and inefficient. For example, I'll be working with a property manager that is just not aggressive at turning the property. You know, maybe I'm thinking that the vacancy that's coming up is in a different property under a Different manager who reaches out to me and they're proactive. They and I forget that. And this one's not proactive. And it goes a few weeks, you know, completely empty and they're just not taking action. Right. So that might be a problem. Or perhaps one property manager has a limit of they can charge $300 on maintenance before they talk to you. And another one, it's 200 or 500 or maybe one of them's charging per item and one's a per month charge. So it gets super complex. You know, do they retain the deposit or do they send the deposit to you? Just really inefficient when you're operating basically with property managers in different areas that have different rules. So I'm really looking somebody that Jason Hartman and I have dubbed a real estate portfolio manager. And that person doesn't necessarily have to be local to me, but I specifically don't want them local to these markets. I want one person to manage all of them and to get my property managers in alignment. I want them to help me with kind of bookkeeping, but also get the processes happening the same at all of my different areas. And that may mean that I have to leave these property managers and I'm okay with that. But if you leave the property managers and you do self management from afar now, you bring in some extra stuff, right? So you need somebody to do the on the ground leasing for you. You need somebody to actually vet the, the individuals who are going to do, you know, building your kind of Rolodex for use an old term, but building your contacts of trusted maintenance people for different issues in different markets, that's not hard to do. It just takes some time to do the first time you need a plumber in each market, for example, there's great resources out there. It just takes time to do it. So I' for somebody, you know, kind of my own little small family office idea where I have a person to manage, you know, my real estate portfolio. And so I'm, you know, currently kind of researching a couple of Internet based services like Upwork and a couple of others to try to find that. But if anybody out there has an idea or would like to take that job from me, please let me know because I'm certainly looking for that. And another thing that's sometimes frustrating with these, you know, different property managers is they make decisions that are a conflict of interest, meaning that it benefits them, but works against the owner. You know, here's an example, like getting one year leases instead of multi year leases that's a benefit to the property manager. If they're also making money on the turn, they're making money on the lease up fee. You know, if they're getting revenue streams from turning these properties, then it is not in their benefit to do multi year leases. But it's obviously in my benefit to do multi year leases because it's super expensive. I mean, I just got a routine, they called it make ready estimate of $1,900 for a property that rents for 895. Now this tenant had been in there a couple of years, but there were no major repairs or carpet replacements or anything like that. That's just what they determined for spot painting and you know, re caulking the tub and doing deep cleaning and that kind of stuff. And you know, the problem is, is that your real estate cannot positively cash flow. You if you're going to have, you know, you're going to pay a month for the thing to be physically vacant while they're doing this work and getting it leased up and that's optimistic. And then you're paying a month for the lease up fee and then you're paying two and a half months worth for this make ready charge. You can't have four to five months of vacancy costs or lost rents every year or two and still make the thing cash flow. So need some other options, right? Need some other options. So I'm looking to have my property manager's interests aligned with me. And I think if the guy works for me, that will be by default, you know, what is going on. So very interested in that idea and kind of making that shift to having somebody, you know, where they understand their only customer is the landlord. It's not, not the tenant. In fact, the tenant of course is the landlord's customer, right? Like my customer is the person who pays me rent to live in my building. My property manager, my portfolio manager. I'm their customer, right? And so sometimes you'll find property managers who say, well, I've got two customers, I got to walk this fine line. Sorry that you think that I should have charged the tenant for this. But we work also for the tenant. And I just say, no, you guys got it wrong. You don't work for the tenant. You work for the landlord. Landlord pays you. It's very easy to see in life who your boss is. The person you work for is the person who pays your check. And I don't understand how property managers get that wrong. The tenant does not pay their check, the owner pays their check, but somehow they use that as an excuse when they don't look out for the position of the landlord, they instead, you know, just hand money away to the tenant when it was inappropriate because you know what's, it's no skin off their back, right? It's not, it's not their money. So anyway, somewhat bad experiences, some frustrating experiences recently makes me very interested in things like Cozy and things like having a real estate portfolio managers. And so without further ado, here are Jason Arman and Gino Zand, the CEO of cosi.

It's my pleasure to welcome Gino Zond to the show. He is the founder and CEO of Cozy. And we've talked a little bit about Cozy on prior episodes before and we wanted to take a deep dive into it, find out what it is, find out how it can help you with the management of your real estate portfolio. And especially if you are self managing or thinking of self managing, not going the more popular property manager route. And we've had clients have tremendous success with both of these approaches. Sometimes self management, believe it or not, is actually easier than managing your property manager. As I always say, if you have a great property manager, heck, keep them. But if you have a mediocre or a poor property manager, self management really could be a good alternative for you. It's worked for me, you know, many years ago, as I said before on the show, many years ago, if you told me that I could self manage a property that I've never seen that's 2,000 miles away with a tenant I've never met, I would have told you you were absolutely crazy. However, I've done it successfully quite a few times and many of our clients have as well. So it is an option and let's just kind of dive in and see what Gino has to say. Gino, welcome. How are you?

I'm doing well, thanks for having me.

Good. You're based in Portland, but coming to us from Sin City today, right? Las Vegas.

I am in Las Vegas today. I am here for the Money20 20 conference. And so it's been two days so far of back to back meetings with folks and that's been a really good conference.

Fantastic. Well, you know what is cozy? When you give an elevator pitch to someone you know, just in 30 seconds. What is it?

Yeah, Cozy is a very simple to use service for landlords, property managers and their tenants to do everything from paying and collecting rent, rental applications, tenant screening, background checks. And our goal is to be the one stop shop that you can run your rental business with.

Okay, great. And how did you come up with the idea. I mean, Tim Ferriss is an investor in Cozy, isn't he?

Yes, Tim is an investor. The idea was born from a lot of miserable experiences as a renter in San Francisco. Actually, I lived there and work in the valley for almost 20 years. And the idea for cozy really started in 2009, and my business partner and I had been talking about it for a couple of years. And in 2011, I was moving again, and I had filled out the standard 10 or 12 rental applications that you fill out in San Francisco.

And.

And a landlord accidentally ran my credit score six times in three hours. And there's not a lot you can do about that other than wait for the consequences and then ride them out. And that made me angry enough to think that I could actually do something about it. And so the nutshell of how Cozy was born started there. And we were actually running another company at the time, but I removed myself from the daily operations of. Of that company, and I went into about 40 different markets to just speak to people firsthand. And we wanted to know what tools they used at that point. Internally, our biggest competitor was Microsoft Excel. It's a very entrenched tool in the small landlord space. We wanted to understand where the big headaches were between landlords and tenants. We wanted to understand if there were markets in the US that worked differently. Where were they and why was that the case? For example? For example, we had this perception that in New York City, it would be very difficult to use something like Cozy because there's such a strong broker presence there. But at this point, we have a lot of customers in New York who screen their own tenants, and we've made all of that very simple. And so that's where the idea came from. We launched publicly in July of 2013, and at this point, we're used in over 4,000 cities around the country. So every urban area, every suburb, everywhere.

Okay. So for tenants, basically, it sounds like the usp, the unique selling proposition, is that the tenant can just go to Cozy when they want to look when they want to start looking for a new place, and they can fill out one application, and Cozy will be this sort of centralized service that'll run their credit report, do their background check, and then landlords can just go there and find out what they're all about. Is that correct?

So we're not a listing service, so you don't come to Cozy.

I know, I know that. I know they're not. I know you don't have listings on there like Zillow or any, or you know, any of the other sites or Craigslist. But can they do what I said though?

Yeah. So generally the way that it works is when, when a landlord is looking for a new tenant, for example, part of the application process is, is the credit report and background check. And so when a tenant is filling this stuff out, it's just a seamless part of it. It's not a separate pie. The beauty of Cozy is that as a tenant, you never have to give someone your Social Security number. So you pay for your credit report, but you own that data, you control it. And so mechanically the way that it works, say that I apply to your place, I would run my own credit report, I would get the results and I would share those with you as part of my application. So you get what you need. It comes from the bureau in real time, so you can trust the information. But I've never given you anything that you could use for identity theft. So that's how that piece works.

Okay. So it's good for the tenant in that way. Now tell us how the landlord uses it.

So landlords use Cozy in two big ways today. The first piece is with rent payment and collection. And the other piece is our screening tools and rental applications. So we make finding a tenant very easy and we make the, the quality of the data that you get very high.

Okay, so let's take those in chronological order. Let's talk about screening. So you've got a property that's up for rent. You know, many of our clients that self manage, they'll use a real estate agent or a property manager just to do a one time lease up. Some of them do it themselves too. You know, if they, if they're, if they've got this one time lease up sort of thing. Can you tell your real estate agent or property manager that I want to use Cozy to screen all the tenants?

Yes, and that's actually a very common use case for us. We have a lot of listing agents who only use our screening tools. And then when it's time to just start collecting the rent on a monthly basis and we've automated all of that, then the landlord can just set up those payments. And the payments go directly from their tenant to whichever bank account they want it to go to.

Okay, so what do they do? Tell us exactly what happens. So the tenant comes in, expresses interest in the property and then what?

Yeah, so there are a number of ways that, that people use Cozy in terms of where they come into the product. So on the tenant piece, if I Am looking for a place I can take my Cozy property. And we give you a unique URL for the application for any given property. So I can put that link in my Craigslist ad or my Zillow ad or wherever I want to market it. Tenants can simply go to that link and apply, and they can apply from their phone. So.

So you. There. There will be a link. There will be a link, and you can put that link on a Craigslist ad. You can put it in Postlets, Zillow, wherever you're listing the property. Right. That says, if you like this property, apply here. Is that how it works?

Yes.

Okay. And then. And then the tenant goes and applies, and how much do they have to pay for the application fee?

So there. There isn't an application fee. We have decoupled the idea of a fee from the application. So most landlords do want a background check and a credit report, and we. That's the default setting. So if. If the tenant does need to pay for that bundle, it's $34.95. If they just need to buy a credit report or a background check, those are $19.95 each. And as I said before, the tenant controls that information and never has to share anything that can be used for identity theft. And so it's free for the landlord. The tenant pays for it, but they have control of that. And so in the very rare cases where a landlord or property manager are just accepting applications, there's no fee for.

The application itself, so there's no fee for the application. Now, landlords usually make a little bit of money off the application. Okay? I mean, they have to spend their time. So it's a fair. You know, I guess it's a fair request. But, for example, you know, a landlord might charge a $25 application fee for each adult occupant in the house. Right? So if it's a husband and wife, it'll be $50. If it's just one party, it'll be $25. But then they'll go and they'll run the background check, and that'll only cost them maybe 10 bucks. What happens with Cozy? Can they still do that? Or does that opportunity gone? And I'm calling it an opportunity because, you know, they do make a. You know, it's a nominal amount of.

Money, but it's icing. And so Cozy's completely free. And we take the burden of actually dealing with the applications.

From the landlord. Right. So we did a lot of early homework on this because we as renters had experienced the wonderful and mysterious application fee. And what we learned is that when. And we asked about 3,000 people around the country about this, specifically about why do you charge an application fee? And if so, why? And the overwhelming majority of respondents to that survey told us that they used the application fee simply to go pay for a background check and credit report. Less than 5% used it to collect an additional fee from their tenant. And so we made the decision early on to just remove the concept of an application fee and only have tenants pay for the things where they're actually acquiring data about themselves to apply to a place. And so, you know, we've been in business for two years now, and I think we have had maybe three or four people over the course of our history email to ask, hey, how can I charge a tenant an extra, you know, 10 or $25?

And so there's actually kind of a little other benefit to the landlord. You know, if the tenant pays something, even though it's a nominal fee like 25 bucks, you know, it sort of makes them more committed to the property if they're out looking at, you know, two dozen properties and applying everywhere. You know, they kind of feel like they're really sort of into it if they gave you 25 bucks. So, you know, look at no landlords making money off application fees. Okay? They have to spend a lot of time screening the tenants and so forth. But, you know, certainly institutional apartments do this, and it's probably a big business for them, actually.

Yeah. But to your point, the way that we've designed it is that the tenants who really want a place are going to purchase their credit report and background check. And so just the way that we have designed the software naturally causes the higher quality tenants to bubble up to the top if you are getting multiple applicants for a property. And so to your point of, you know, it weeds out the people who. The application fee weeds out the people who are not interested. We still do that, but what is attached to that is high quality data rather than just intent.

So how do you make money? I mean, because we gotta get into the thing about the monthly rent processing. Okay, I don't wanna spend too much time on this, but how does cozy make money?

Yeah, so we give away the core tools to landlords and property managers. So the application and screening tools and the ACH payment and collection tools. And today we have two revenue streams. One is around credit reports, one is around background checks. So today that's currently how we make money. In less than a month, we will actually start Allowing tenants to pay rent and other things like utilities with debit and credit cards. And so we'll start actually monetizing the very large amounts of money that we move every month. And then there are things coming, but those are the three that are immediate.

So anything more you want to say on screening? Just quickly and then let's move on to monthly rent collection.

Yeah, let's move on.

Landlords collect rent in various ways. You know, good old fashioned, send me a check and then the tenant says the checks in the mail. As the old saying goes, My mother self manages all of her properties. I call her kind of an extreme do it yourselfer. She's sort of a little too much on the do it yourself side for sure. And I've had her on the show a few times to talk about it. And she just has the tenants deposit the money into her bank on the first of the month. And boy, she is like a hawk. At the end of the day on the 1st of the month, she is looking at her bank and making sure all those deposits were made. So the tenants, it's their responsibility to just put it into her account. And so, you know, you can do it that way. There are a couple other payment processing things, but the problem is with other payment processing systems is of course, you know what I'm going to say. They charge a fee and that's okay when the transaction is 20 bucks, but when it's $1,500 a month or even worse in the Socialist Republic of San Francisco.

Then it really adds up. It's a lot of money.

Yes. So we have aggressively negotiated our ACH payments, which is direct from one bank to another to a point where we feel that it's a great value to just offer that service for free to both landlords and tenants. And, you know, today we move about a quarter billion a month. Sorry, a year. And that's growing. In 2015, that's been growing at about.

140% every quarter. And so that's, you know, volume is one way that we make that free. And as I just mentioned, we're actually getting ready to roll out the ability for tenants to pay with debit cards and credit cards. And there will be a convenience fee associated with that. But the cool thing about cards is that if a landlord also wants to use a debit card, we can actually make those payments almost instant. So if a tenant pays with a debit card, we can then almost immediately push that money to the landlord's debit card as well. So that's something that's coming that we're super excited about. The other thing that is much better about Cozy than.

I have a. I have a question for you. And you know, you know how in life we have these things that we just sort of take for granted and never question, and some of them are acronyms, abbreviations. Do you know what ACH even stands for? I mean, I know what it is, but I don't even know what it stands for. Is it like, Automatic Cash transfer?

It's Automated Clearinghouse.

Ah, thank you.

And actually, we have on our website.

There'S a link. I think it's Cozy co ACH explained. And don't quote me on that, but it's something like that where we actually explain what happens to your money when it leaves your bank account and then goes into the Federal Reserve and then it goes through a couple of processes before it actually ends up in your landlord's account. But, yes, the Automated Clearinghouse is the service that our federal government built decades ago. And it's.

The rails on which all United States payments still run. And unfortunately, we're all still beholden to their rules.

Okay, so Cozy can process payments for.

Free, is that it costs us a tiny amount of money, but it's worth it for us to offer that service for free to our customers.

Wow. Okay, so you're, you know, it's kind of like saying we lose money on every deal, but we make it up on volume.

Well, yeah. And you know, people.

I'm joking with you, obviously.

Yeah, yeah, sure.

Well, not really.

Well, you know, there are. It's certainly a loss leader for us, but.

It'S a very sticky product, and it's a product that works very well for people. And when you opened the show and you were Talking about being 2,000 miles away, we actually just a few hours ago, got a comment from a customer who's in Saudi Arabia, nine time zones away from his three rental properties. And he was raving about how much better Cozy has made his life. And so it's, you know, it's worth it for us to provide that because it's such a sticky service and people do need to screen tenants. And, you know, soon we'll actually start monetizing the rent payments by allowing tenants to pay with cards. So it's worth it for us.

Okay, so how does it work? What happens? I mean, what does the landlord do and what does the tenant do to make this automatic payment happen?

Yeah. So there are really two ways that a landlord would initiate payments. So either I, as a landlord, just found a new Tenant through Cozy. And now I'm getting them set up on payments. A more common case for us actually is people already have tenants and they discover Cozy and they say.

Oh my gosh, this is just so much better than rent checks or paypal or direct deposit or however they're doing it. And so they just onboard their current tenants to start using cozy to pay and collect rent. And so the way that it works is let's say that you're my tenant. I simply set you up in cozy, which takes 30 seconds, I enter your email address and a little bit more information about the property, and I essentially just send you an invite. You get an invite that says, hey, Gino is setting you, invited you to pay rent through cozy. And you go through a process. We verify that you are in fact who you say you are. We verify that you in fact own the bank account from which the money will be withdrawn. And it's that simple. And then once it's set up, it just runs automatically every month. And we do a very good job of notifying both the landlord and the tenant. You know, hey, rent's due in five days. Just a heads up. And then the day that the rent is pulled, we let you know. And then, and we also let your landlord know, hey, the rent's on its way. So your mom actually wouldn't need to go eagle eye her bank account because she would get a notification on her phone or email or wherever proactively that just says, hey, your tenant at this property has paid their rent. You can expect it in the next three to five days.

I just keep thinking, what is your ultimate goal? I mean, look, there's no shortage of tech companies, companies in the world who never had a penny of revenue. Or either that. Either. Either no revenue or certainly no profit. Yet they've sold for a gazillion dollars to another company. I mean, is that your plan with Cozy? Are you just looking to get traffic and eyeballs or, or do you really have a revenue model here? I mean, it sounds like you charge for some things, but I don't know, I can't imagine it's, you know, how much do you charge for whatever you charge for?

So to answer your first question, what our goal is, our goal is to build the best one stop service for anyone to run the rental business. And that means if you have two properties or if you have 2,000 properties, we want you to be able to do it. Soup to nuts with cozy. So that's our goal. Now.

The exit, which I think is what you were implying is really not relevant or of interest at this point. We're growing fast. We're making money.

We have a lot of new revenue streams lined up. The next one's getting ready to launch in November.

We have so top secret stuff there probably. Right.

Well, no, the card payments that I mentioned.

Oh, okay.

So that's coming. And given the volume of cash that.

We move every year, it'll be significant. Okay, good.

Things that we're looking at in the future without giving too much away. Everyone needs renters insurance.

Every small.

Rental owner needs liability insurance. And the adoption rates of those things today are abysmal. And we have a really huge opportunity to make a positive impact in those kinds of things as well. So there's absolutely a business here and it's growing very well. And what the long term goal is to build the best product that we possibly can and have a massive swath of people not only in the US but around the world using our product to the point where if you took it away, they would say, how the hell did I get this done before?

Right. Yeah. Okay. That's awesome. This is just a great tool. I mean, do you have a. Of a competitor or is it just. This is pretty much a kind of a new. I mean of course you have services like PayPal, Venmo, there are others, but it's not designed for landlords. And of course you've got those pesky fees. Of course you can get around that with PayPal. If you say it's for a friend or a relative, I don't know, you know, not really a solution.

Right. Yeah. So when we started out, we were very much the. The lone few people in a canoe in the middle of the ocean. There. There were no competitors. Historically, no one had ever.

Designed a product for the sub 20 unit independent rental owner market. And the interesting thing is that sub 20 unit building is actually about 75% of the US market. It's the huge majority of rental properties in the US and the reason that no one had ever done that in the past is that it's such a fragmented market.

You can't hire a salesforce and call everyone. And luckily now that we have things like your show that we're doing right now, we can get in front of people. But there have also been a number of things on the Internet that has allowed Cozy to get in front of the right people at the right time, where historically that just wasn't possible. Now since we have launched, there are a lot of copycats and I think it'll be interesting to See what happens over the next five years to see.

Where the industry lands. Because.

What'S happening with COSI is that while we very specifically designed the V1 of the product for the smaller independent rental owner, professional property managers have heard about Cozy as the brand has grown. And now what's happening with us is we're being pulled up market and we have more and more customers that have 200 units or 1500 units. And so we're very quickly designing the product to also handle the kind of scale that they need to deal with and the headaches that they have, while maintaining and continuing to grow the audience that we started with, which is our bread and butter. So it's still fragmented. A lot of companies are coming at it from a lot of different angles. But. But look, it's a huge market and Cozy is. We're excited about where things are headed right now.

Yeah, I'm excited too. I'm excited to see that there's a service like this out there and look forward to seeing where it goes. It's sorely needed. Anything else you want to say? Of course, the website is cozy.com.

It'S actually cozy Co. Cozy Co. Oh, thank you.

So you use the Colombian domain extension co, huh?

It's more and more common.

Yeah, I've noticed that.

It's interesting. We started there and a lot of people just call us Cozy Company now, which is kind of cute. And it's okay with me.

Sure. Yeah. Good stuff. Anything else you want people to know? Maybe a question I didn't ask you or just anything.

Well, the rest of 2015 is going to be super exciting for us. We just launched a new mobile web app for landlords, so you can do almost everything on Cozy on your phone or. Or tablet. Now, over the next eight weeks, we'll be rolling out a number of new features for both landlords and tenants around payments and listings management. And we're also in two weeks, announcing a big partnership. And I wish I could tell you what it is, but I would encourage people to just follow us on Twitter Ozyco, and we'll be making that announcement there.

Fantastic. Well, Gino, thank you so much. One thing I just did want to mention, mentioned to investors, you mentioned fragmentation. And you may want to speak to this, by the way. And I always say to investors, embrace the fragmentation, because the fact that you have that fragmentation, that's what keeps the big institutional players out of our business in the, you know, in the small rental business. So, you know, you see some hedge funds and some private equity groups, you know, kind of dabbling. And, you know, when I say dabbling, you know, I mean 10,000 units, but. Right.

Dabbling in on the order of billions.

But by their perspective, compared to Wall street money, that is dabbling. Okay, you know, it's not. It's not, you know, Goldman Sachs type money, but that keeps them out of our game. So, you know, you got some tools like cozy and some other great tools that we've talked about on prior episodes out there. And, you know, it's just, it's the most historically proven asset class in the entire world. If you have ask me. So this is great and thank you for doing what you do. I just think, you know, there's some great tools like yours out there. So investors, please check them out, take advantage of them.

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