HI 124 - Leadership Characteristics & Finding Your WHY with American Sniper Author Jim Defelice

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Hello and welcome to episode 124 of the Heroic Investing Show, a podcast for first responders, members of the military, veterans and anyone looking to improve their financial future and gain some freedom with their time. We teach America's heroes how to build passive income, build their startup business and safely grow wealth through real estate and other alternative investments. We help current and prior first responders put protections and systems in place to enable them to build a life where they can focus on their passions, their service or product that they are uniquely gifted to share with the world. My name is Gary Pinkerton and I co host this show with Jason Hartman. Hopefully you find it inspiring and and please do head over to itunes or wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a five star rating or another star if you desire. And please also provide me some feedback@garyarypinkerton.com so on 124 I speak with well known author Jim De Felice. So I think you've probably heard of Jim. If you haven't, I'm sure you've heard of his works. This is an amazing discussion with a prolific writer who has successful books that fall across many areas of interest, both fiction and nonfiction. He's been called a master storyteller. He's a New York Times bestselling author. He's probably most well known for American Sniper Chris Kyle's story. Navy SEAL Chris Kyle, if you remember the gentleman who was killed at the shooting range by an army individual who had some PTSD that he was struggling through and Chris and a buddy were trying to help him out. Very tragic story and actually Jim DeFelice and I spend quite a bit of time talking about Chris. He's also actually written three total books about Chris. He talks a more in depth one about behind the story, you know, behind the man, the legend Chris. And then he also does one wrote one, excuse me, called American Wife which is about Chris's wife Tiya and the struggles that she had gone through, has gone through. So you know, he's done, as I said, a lot of nonfiction. His other really well known book is Omar Bradley, General at War and then I think probably as well known as Fighting Blind and Fighting Blind is written with a Green Beret story, you know, about Extraordinary Courage is the, is the title and it's Ivan Castro, a Green Beret, as I mentioned, and another, you know, really well done book. So, so then he turns and he's done a lot more books actually in fiction. And his fiction covers the gamut of war history, geopolitics, cutting edge technology. He's written on obviously a pretty wide range and some that maybe you've come across is one on the American Revolution called the Silver Bullet, futuristic techno thrillers, the Threat Level Black. I think you're gonna resonate with a lot of the stuff that Jim and I talk about. He actually obviously has been seriously moved throughout his life in working with American heroes, so it certainly fits well with our audience. But he's got a very, just an awesome outlook on what books can do, what researching of books can do for you as an individual and clearly as someone who truly, truly loves his work. The one that I would really recommend getting, I'm sure you've read American Sniper. The one I would truly recommend getting is his most recent book on history, which is West Like Lightning, where he talks about the, you know, the American frontier as the pony express cross continental railroad starts to, to get up and running and how it changed America, connecting, you know, Sacramento to Missouri initially, but then, you know, connecting on further. So it played a huge part in things like the postal service, American finance, the Gold Rush, the Civil War eventually. So if you're a historian or if you just like to read about war veterans and heroes, I think there's a lot that Jim has to offer. And finally, you know, he's, he's not just, as I said, not just into nonfiction. He's written a lot of fiction. I mentioned a couple of them, codenamed Johnny Walker is one that comes to mind, which developed into a movie. And he also wrote the storylines for several video games. Probably most notably is Ace Combat Assault Horizon and then the follow on Afro Samurai. Samurai, excuse me. So just a great guy and I think you really get something out of this. Slightly off topic, but not really, you know, he's talking about what all of you out there that are first responders and veterans and active duty, excuse me, military are doing every day, kind of help keep things in perspective for the sacrifices that you're making and hopefully get you motivated for that next paper drill that comes up when you're not out there actually fighting America's wars and protecting those of us around. So thank you all for what you do and I really do hope you get a lot out of this conversation with Jim.

Well, everyone, thanks again for joining us.

And as I mentioned in the introduction.

We have an incredible guest, one that.

Most of you have heard from. If you haven't heard about him, you've at least heard about all of his works. A huge volume of amazing books. Probably the most well known is American Sniper because they made a movie about it. I was blown away by a couple of books he's written that I hadn't been tracking. And I consider myself to stay a little bit on the pulse here. So, Jim, thanks for joining us first of all, and welcome.

Thanks for having me. It's great to be on your show and thanks for the opportunity to share what little I know about many different things with your audience.

Absolutely. So, you know, American Sniper are very, very well known with our audience.

You know, it's, it's something that we've all either grown up as part of the our battles in Afghanistan of, you know, Desert Storm, even for the older, the veterans in the group were, you know, a lot of followers in the firefighter, police, emergency responders in the New York City area, really, any city has had to deal with the repercussions of 911 and keeping it from happening again. So we're all kind of focused on those events, on what got Chris Kyle over there. Could you speak just a little bit to your interaction writing that book?

Well, actually about 911 in New York, Chris had joined the SEALs prior to 911 and had 911 not happened, you know, his career in the military would probably have been a fairly short one. But 911 happens, he ends up going over to Iraq several times. His dad in the meantime had been working in New York and kind formed a little bit of a bond with some of the firemen and the companies that were involved there. And so there was a little bit of kind of family connection. And I just remember after the book came out, we were doing a publicity up in New York. We had a few hours. Chris. The one thing out of everything in New York that Chris wanted to see that he hadn't was the actual site and there was a little museum. They were still building the tower at the time. So Chris and I went down and it was for both of us, very emotional time. I had been at the down at the area the day after the attacks, but had kind of been, you know, down in the Wall street area, but had never gone back to the physical site after that. And we both went through the small museum. And we came out, and Chris looks at me, and I look at him and I said, drink. And he said, drink. And we went up and found a bar. And as a matter of fact, I think we did one or two media calls from there, though rumor has it that we did that. I can't confirm or deny it.

Wow.

What year was that?

Well, the book came out in 2012, so I'm guessing that's when it was okay.

Wow.

I know. Time flies. It's amazing to me, the movie. It seems like yesterday that I was looking at Bradley. Bradley Cooper, who on screen there. The first time I saw. Now, you know, Bradley Cooper. Bradley Cooper and Chris looked nothing alike, really. But the first time I saw Bradley on the. You know, on the big screen there is like, oh, my God, that's. You know, he has Chris right down to the way, you know, his hands and fingers were moving across the rifle. Great, fantastic, phenomenal actor, and actually a great human being who's done a lot for veterans, although he doesn't publicize it. But the amazing thing, the really amazing thing is that Bradley had never met Chris when he played the part. Unfortunately, Chris had been murdered before they met. So, you know, he was wearing one thing that not a lot of people know. Bradley was wearing Chris's boots through a lot of those scenes.

Oh, wow.

Just amazing. Yeah.

That I didn't know. That's the kind of thing we can't.

Get without talking to the author and.

Somebody who was very close.

What came immediately after American Sniper for you?

After American Sniper, probably the big book that I published after that was Codename Johnnie Walker. And that's a story about an Iraqi interpreter, actually, who worked partly with Chris for a short time. As Chris put it, Johnny was the only Iraqi he trusted with a gun. I don't know that that was actually true, but it was a good line and a good quip from Chris. And then after that, kind of continuing in this vein or talking about those books, Tayaka, Chris's widow, and I collaborated on a book about kind of continued Chris's story. Talked about some of the effects of fame, really. And then, you know, obviously, the murder and what she's. She went through. So those are kind of those. Those books that relate to, you know, kind of Chris's story.

I haven't read her book yet, but I look forward to. Now that you positioned that or you discussed that in the light of being kind of a continuation of Chris's story. I mean, I was certainly interested in her story. That gave me a little Bit of a boost to go read that one too. I appreciate that. And then Omar Bradley was a little while after that, I think. Yes.

You know, that was that book. The funny thing on that book is that took so long to research that if you asked me when it was actually published, I might say like 10 years ago because it seems like I've been living with that book for so long. It was, you know, Omar Bradley. I was shocked to find out that Omar Bradley had not had full biography about him. And my biography mainly, while it does cover his entire or most of his life, it really is focused on his World War II endeavors. And he really was an incredible general, one of our best generals of an army group. Certainly he was just a very quiet guy in terms when it came to publicity. Obviously you don't get to be a, you know, a three star, let alone a five star general without having something of an ego. So, you know, I can't say he was always that humble, but he believed in letting his underlings take credit. And he, as far as I know, he's the only person who ever was under George Patton and was over George Patton. And he certainly managed Patton as much as anyone could really manage Patton very well. And he's really, unfortunately, an undervalued general. Wow.

So before we leave, the kind of the military theme or the researching of leaders, in Chris's case, meeting leaders, what have you taken away from what you just gave us?

One characteristic of a successful person to.

When possible, allow their subordinates or their people to take credit. Any others that you've learned from great people like that?

The one thing that I would say that the people that were talking about and I'd throw in, say, Ivan Castro, who was my last really big kind of big memoir was done. Ivan was a Special Forces. He just retired from the Green Berets and he was in Afghanistan. He was also in Iraq where he was hit by a mortar shell and blinded while his team was working with Delta Force. And Ivan went on. I mean, he was close to death, he goes on. And although he's blinded, he recovers enough to become a marathon runner, even though he can't see and to do things like go to the Antarctic, bicycle across America. And for me, I find that kind of resilience, that kind of American spirit, if you will, and just the will to just keep going despite all adversity. I think that that's one thing that's common with a lot of leaders. Obviously they're not all blinded. There are some physical limits, clearly. But what I Notice is whether it's a Chris Kyle, you know, an Omar Bradley, or even a Johnnie Walker, when they meet a barrier, they find some way either to go around or through it or just otherwise persevere.

Persistence. Yeah, I was just watching.

Finally got a chance to watch the.

Winston Churchill recent movie. You know, I love his quote that success is never final, failure is never fatal, but it's the courage that continue that matters. Right. And I think I got the last part wrong, but that's the point. I mean, it's the bigger picture of it, I think.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, absolutely. And of course, World War II. I mean, that's one of the things I'm attracted to. World War II. I think you're exactly. For what you said, you have so.

Many examples of that and the inspirational people who. I mean, that was a war that was all lost. That's fascinating. So a huge change. I don't know how to transition to this other than just to point out the fact that it's a big change, you know, the Pony Express. Tell us about this.

Well, you know, it is a big change. People say, well, you're doing the Pony Express now. What? What? Well, first of all, you know, I write about heroes, you know, and people persevering and just keep going when there's. When there's a lot of barriers. And that's certainly what the writers for the Pony Express were doing. But the other thing really that attracted me after, you know, kind of spending so much time either literally with someone with these people like Chris, or figuratively with Omar Bradley and going through the records and talking to people that knew him, I wanted something where was still history, we're still talking about heroic ventures. But, you know, it's also kind of a good old fashioned fun read, you know, where there's fun stories, legends, as well as, you know, as historical fact. And I just kind of remembered a lot of the books that I loved reading when I was growing up. And a lot of the stories I loved reading about, you know, a lot of the old west, gunfighters and everything. And the great thing about the Pony Express is it kind of intersects all of that. It happens, right? Well, actually, in about two thirds of America, kind of intersects. Runs right across America from Missouri directly to Sacramento and then on to San Francisco. And it happens at a really, really important time in our history. It's a civil. It's right as the Civil War starts. So for me, besides that fun read, and I tried to make it a fun read, you know, there's also a Lot of important historical issues at the time. And I get to talk about those.

Give a couple examples that impacted the express.

Sure. Well, you have. Well, first of all, obviously you have the Civil War. So you have, you know, both sides, you know, and you know, you have bloody. It starts the headquarters of the Pony Express is in Missouri, which, you know, is really has a. Both sides, you know, and that's even before. That's during. I talk about that in the book. That's right. As the Pony Express is riding even before the war starts, then you have leading Kansas. So that's obviously a big issue. It's also a big issue in California and back east because they want the gold that's over and that they're still mining even though the big gold rush is peaked already. But they're still pulling, pulling money out of the ground there. So they want to keep that connection going. So you have the Civil War and because of the gold, you know, you have the finite. You have a lot of the starts of modern finance which develop. And the pony is a little bit involved because the three men who start the Pony Express, what they're trying to do is start really an empire of transportation, information and finance. They have an insurance company, they have a bank. The bank is well funded, at least in theory. Well funded enough so they could have a $10,000 note, you know, so they really, they were ambitious. Some of the other obvious issues, I guess the telegraph and the train, both of which were taken into account by the guys that started the Pony Express and they used those, you know, kind of in their. Not only in their planet, but in their day to day operations. So, you know, so you have all of this innovation, entrepreneurship as well as, you know, good old gunplay, horse riding. And you have Indian wars and Mormons. Yeah, pioneers, all that good stuff.

So just telling that story, there was a lot of American history in there, you know.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And that's what, you know, that's what attracted to me. So sometimes my answer is when somebody asks me, what'd you write about that? I'd say, well, who would resist it? I mean, you know, you've got Buffalo Bill, you've got.

Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, if you're a serious literary person, you've even got Mark Twain. Mark Twain is in there visiting some of the stations. And I even got a reference to Roughing it, which was one of my favorite books when I was, I guess around 20 or so.

So how long does it.

I'm sure all the books are different. You commented that you were with OMAR.

BRADLEY For 10 years. How long are you researching several books at once? How long is it from kind of when you physically put pen to paper before it's published, you know, on a normal book?

Yeah, it totally depends on the. It totally depends on the, on the work. And like Pony Express for instance, it took a few months worth of background research and I got to give a shout out and a big thank you to my wife Deborah, who actually helped and did a lot of the preliminary research for me, not only on Pony Express but also on Omar Bradley. She spent a lot of time going through archives months and months and months and then working on the Pony Express. He's kind of not necessarily full time research and background checking to start. And then I spent I guess a little bit over a month physically on the trail, kind of retracing the trail, going to the small museums there, seeing what it looks like now, getting lost somewhere in Utah or Nevada. I'm not really sure where. If I knew where, I wouldn't have been lost. Kind of wandering around, occasionally going I guess on places I wasn't supposed to go. But you know, it's all in the name of research, you know, so when that phase kind of ends, then it can take usually several months to write the book.

Okay.

Okay.

I just participated in a book launch in writing. I was a co author. There wasn't much research associated other than deep thought. It was telling your own stories. But it took a while. I was amazed if I asked you, this could be out of left field and hopefully it's easy to answer. But what is your why? Why do you write books?

Obviously it inspires you.

I can see it in you. And obviously the books have been very successful. What's your why?

The why is because you always find out something that you didn't know.

Search for knowledge.

And that's every day. That's every day. Now. A lot of times it's really hard to find that out. And there are, you know, occasionally days that you know, you're not finding anything out. Buddy, it's. You're lucky just that, you know, just to make it to the end of the day. But in the business end of actually anything that's involved in entertainment writing really is involved there can be frustrating and tricky, but there's a certain very difficult to describe sensation that you get. You know, when you are able to put together something that hadn't existed before or to come away with some insight that you personally hadn't had before. And that's, you know, that's what Gets me up every morning to get going.

So it's finding it and also packaging in a way in which it is.

There's enough of a light on it that people recognize it, and then you get to share it. That's pretty neat. I guess I kind of.

Yeah. You know, the other thing I would say is there's always a point in every book that I've ever written that I come to a point where it's totally impossible to proceed. I just can't solve. There's a problem I just can't get through. I cannot figure the thing out. I wander, I knock my head against the wall, I go for a run, whatever. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. I cannot do it. This is it. I finally reached the point where it's over, man. It's just like, you know, just. Just hang it up, you know, just go drink some bourbon and smoke some cigars for the rest of your life because you ain't doing it anymore. And somehow, somehow, some way, it gets resolved, and you kind of blunder through it in the weirdest way. And getting through that point is, it's, you know, it's salvation. I won the lottery, man, because I just, you know, I don't have to change my life all that much. I can just keep going.

Wow.

And so one last question that came.

To mind for me is.

Is it obvious what the next story is in most cases?

Do you have a list of things that things percolate to the top, or does something just kind of hit you at the moment?

Yeah, you know, it's funny. I think most writers really are like this. I mean, you know, you. The real problem is, as you walk down the street, you see a million stories. You know, you see a hundred stories. And the real problem is kind of trying to edit those possibilities and keep them down kind of in the. I have the benefit of doing. And having had success, I'm extremely lucky, you know, in many different fields, whether it's a novel. Before American Sniper, I was actually better known as a novelist, even though I'd done nonfiction in a memoir, you know. So I've been ridiculously lucky to be able not only to do, you know, novels, but to do nonfiction, to do memoirs, to do video games and screenplays, even. But the problem, you know, when you're kind of in. In that world or in this world, you know, you also. You need to reach a fairly large audience. You need to be commercial, and you need to go with the decisions, you know, that the big publishers or the movie studios or whatever are making. So, you know, it's kind of a balance between what, you know, what the market wants and what you want. And at the end of the day, if you like to feed your family, you know, you go with what the market wants.

Exactly.

So I had totally neglected the side of developing intensive storylines for the gaming industry. I think part of it's because I don't see that anywhere. I mean, I know it's on your website, certainly, but, like, I don't play games, so I don't go, oh, my gosh, this is Jim.

So I got to ask him about it.

What are some examples real quick? Just a couple that you've participated in, if you can.

Ace Combat Assault Horizon. Did a lot. Did a lot for.

Very cool.

So my son is big into those.

Kinds of games, so I'll certainly mention it to him. Jim, this has been.

Well, first of all, to the audience.

Your name, dot com. Easiest way, I think, to find. It's a wonderful website. Anything else other than jimdayfelice.com?

No, that's. Yeah, I'm not very creative when it comes to names of websites. @jimdfelice.com I'm on Facebook every so often I, you know, tweet out, but often it's about, you know, the Yankees. And I know not everybody's a Yankee fan, so I apologize in advance. But yeah, you can find me there. Hopefully you can check out my books, West Like Lightning or something else at Amazon, Barnes and Noble Books, A million. Or, you know, hopefully it's your local bookstore. I mean, the Independent Booksellers of America, those little, those little stores, you know, with kind of mom and pop organizations, really, really are great for our communities. And they often have great recommendations, not necessarily of my books, but other recommendations.

And they're important to support whether it's.

Your books or not. That's a great point.

Well, the lessons that you just gave as Jim on, or reminders at least on persistence, on humility, characteristics of a great leader. Entrepreneurship, very helpful. Very well, very well pointed towards this audience. So, ladies and gentlemen, I hope you got something out of it. And Jim D. Felice, thank you so much for giving us a few minutes here this morning to talk about your journey, your books. I've got a couple on my list already. I'm going for it.

Well, thanks a lot. I really appreciate the time.

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