HI 138 - Understanding VA Loans, Investing in Duplexes & Importance of Networking with David Pere

Welcome to the Heroic Investing Show. As first responders, we risk our lives every day. Our financial security is under attack, our pensions are in a state of emergency. A single on duty incident can alter or erase our earning potential instantly and forever. We are the heroes of society. We are self reliant and we need to take care of our own financial future. The Heroic Investing show is our toolkit of business and investing tactics on our mission to financial freedom.

Hello and welcome to episode 138 of the Heroic Investing Show, a podcast for first responders, members of the military, veterans, retired first responders and anyone looking to improve their financial future and gain some freedom when with their time, we teach America's heroes how to build passive income, build their startup business and safely grow wealth through real estate and other alternative investments. We help all of these great service providers, whether currently doing that mission or retired like myself, put protections and systems in place to enable them to build a life where they can focus on their passion. The passive income takes care of the rest so that they can focus on the service or product that they are uniquely gifted to share with the rest of the world. My name is Gary Pinkerton and I co host this show with Jason Hartman. Thank you so much for joining us and for going to itunes, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts and giving us a great rating. If you enjoy today's episode or any of the previous ones that we brought to you up to this point and we've got a lot of great ones coming today. My guest is David Perret. David is a 10 year active duty Marine living in Kaneohe, Hawaii which is the northeast side of Oahu and a beautiful Marine Corps base there on Oahu. David does a great job of introducing himself.

And his history and how he got into real estate and what he's doing now. He's extremely active on the Bigger Pockets podcast and if you remember a few episodes ago I interviewed David Green. That was episode 108 and David is co host now of the BiggerPockets podcast. David Perret is a great friend of his and has been on several podcasts with him. They get together in Hawaii and I think they're doing some projects together there that he'll mention in this this episode. But as I say in the beginning in my introduction, this is a perfect fit for this listener group to help again build the confidence that you can do this. David's been doing this for several years. His wife is heavily involved, he still deploys for months at a time and she holds everything together while they do numerous businesses, all related to real estate. But also he's got an incredible education side that you should participate in. And so we talk about his website during the interview and it's a long interview. I won't get into it too much, but I just revisited here as I was doing the introduction to this and David's added an incredible section about just nine books that every real estate investor should read. I have my own reading list. A lot of them are on his reading list. So please reach out to David's website at from militarytomillionaire.com and take some of the great content in that David and his wife are putting out there for all of the active duty and the currently serving first responders. Thanks so much. You're going to love this episode. Like I said, it's a little bit longer. Let's not delay. Let's get to a great interview with David Perret.

So everybody, thanks so much for joining us again for another amazing episode. And when I think about, you know, what we're trying to do here, and I always say in the intro that this podcast is first and foremost centered on active duty members of the military, veterans, first responders and those that have retired from first response. And really the purpose is to give you multiple examples about how you can do this. No kidding, while you're on active duty, while you're working those four day long shifts, you know, they're probably not four days long. Four day cycles of long 24 plus hour shifts, firefighting and police force, working the extra hours to build up the retirement so that you can launch yourself all of those things, I think probably the one thing in the back of your mind is okay, this is great for that guy, but it's not going to work for me. But yet if I keep bringing examples of people who have deployed with rental properties in their name. If I bring, for example my buddy Brandon who bought closed on a property while on an aircraft carrier during one of the days in which he was going to go flying. I hope that that continues to embolden you to take some steps. And please do reach out to these guests that I have on my we have their contact information, I think on the show notes. If not, reach out to me@garyarrypinkerton.com so enough of the promo. But the reason I went through all of that is because we could not have a better fit, I guess. Why do I say a better fit? Because this gentleman is active duty, has been doing this for 10 years on active duty service, his wife's involved they got little kids, so it's not like she's sitting around doing nothing. But I think you're going to really enjoy what you hear from David. And David, first and foremost, thanks so much for joining us. But please launch a little bit into your story and how you got here.

Yeah, absolutely. And thank you again very much, Gary, for having me as a guest on the podcast. Names David Perret. I've been in the Marine Corps since 2008 now. Been kind of around the world, I guess in that time a little bit. And I got really started in real estate in 2015. So I read I was a recruiter, so I was actually a recruiter in Springfield, Missouri. And so I had a whole lot of time in a car and basically no life outside of recruiting duty. And so I kept making excuses because I was talking to a buddy and I was like, yeah, you know, I thought about having buying a property and doing a live in renovation while I was out here. And then I got an apartment because I didn't know what I was doing. And he kept telling me to read this book that I think everyone's read called Rich Dad, Poor dad. Kept telling him I didn't have time to read, I don't like reading, blah blah, blah, every excuse you can think of from a typical Marine. And he basically told me, hey, here's the app for Audible. You drive a lot, quit making excuses, listen to it. And that's exactly what I did. And I think it was like two and a half, three months later I'd listened to that book and maybe a book, I can't remember if I finished the book from Brandon Turner before or after, but I closed on a duplex and moved into one side and rented the other side out and did a house hack. Unfortunately, I didn't know enough about the VA loan to justify having used the va. So that's part of what we'll get into later with my education, trying to help other people understand finances in the military and all the benefits we have. So I use the FHA as 3.5% down, bought this property and I went from renting an apartment for 480 bucks to owning a duplex with basically the same size layout as my apartment and a little bit updated appliances. And I went from paying the 480 to after all expenses. I think I was paying like 150, 160amonth on my mortgage while my tenant paid all the rest of my expenses. And so I was actually able to pocket like 275, $300 a month. Extra out of my housing allowance and own an asset and build equity. And I realized very quickly the light bulb went off, like, hey, this, this is what I need to be doing. We kind of went from there. So my wife has. She had bought a property, single family home. And due to some distress, she was able to get it very cheap and she renovated it. And then when we got together and moved in, we pulled a home equity line of credit out of that property. And we've since bought a. We bought five acres. We kind of joke about cattle financing if you hear me talk about that. But we. We owned six cows and we grew that to 12 just so that we could sell off some of the beef cattle in order to pay for the land. Because the five acres was really. It butted up to the land we already had. And we only bought it because we didn't want someone to build a house behind us that we had to look at every day. And then we were like, well, how do we justify this? Because this isn't an investment. And the answer was grow more cows and make some money that way. And it's actually worked out. We've actually made money off buying that piece of raw land. And then from there this year, we bought a 10 unit apartment back in Missouri as well. And we bought that while living in Hawaii, currently stationed over in Hawaii. So I, maybe when we were home for Christmas, I looked at. I got to look inside two of the 10 units for like 20 minutes on a snowy day. And then we left. And then I was like, hey, we'll make this offer. And it just kind of went from there. Everything worked out. We ended up getting it for less than 5% down. So I think we paid like 10,900 for a $240,000 property. And that was actually out of the home equity line of credit, so our bank account didn't touch a dent. So I think that in itself is a testimonial to just how creativity can help you out on a military salary to get started. And then, yeah, we're flipping a house out here in Oahu with a buddy. We're partnering on a house with a guy named Corey, who is one of the most active flippers on the island. Couldn't really find a better partner for the first deal. So we found a house that had potential, had no money and no idea how to flip it. And we basically networked with enough people that we found a guy who was willing to join in with us. And instead of charging like a normal wholesale fee, we took a very small percent and said just, hey, let me be a part of this whole process. So it's kind of cool getting to stand in a kitchen that we. We actually had to break in the other day because someone forgot the key. So we had to like break in the back door. He's like reaching through, smashing through windows and stuff to open the do get into the house and then sat in there and got to design the kitchen and a new studio on the end of it and all kinds of stuff. So getting to learn a ton just by networking and hanging out with people.

You mentioned a few times about renovation. And so I've been muting myself in between because we're physically renovating my home right now and doing some demo in the kitchen, which is a few rooms across. You mentioned a few really good things there, David. And then remember also to talk about our mutual friend in Biggerpockets. So I'm going to go back and talk about a couple things you said there because there were some. Just some huge nuggets for the audience. So first of all, that idea of living in a duplex or a multifamily and actually living in one part of it. So young families, with or without kids, you know, I think you're still hungry, you're still ready to go. You don't have these expectations. And I'm one who read Robert Kiyosaki like you did. I love the concepts of doodads and assets. Put money in your pocket. My home is not an asset. But nonetheless is that we've grown to have some expectations as we get more and more senior. And so living in a duplex right now is not a great option for my family. It's just not something we would do. But I push everyone, please consider doing it as what I did as a young single guy, had somebody else help pay rent for me a couple of times. I think a duplex is a perfect thing because there's walls between you. It's basically living in an apartment which most young families start with. I think it's perfect. Perfect especially for military, where they're going to pay you your housing allowance whether your bill says you have to or situation. It would anyway. Your mortgage would be more than enough to justify, but it will more than cover your half and then you got the tenant covering the rest. So it provides a lot of liquidity to build up money for those, you know, your next rental that you do. And then you can do that kind of leapfrog thing, right, where you go from one property to the next one. You can legally Use your VA loan, which we're going to talk about in a moment on that. And it has to be primary residence, but at the time it is your primary residence. Or if you're not someone, you know, let's say that you're a first responder, firefighter, and you don't have VA at your exposure, but you still also have the ability to get very low money down on a primary residence loan as opposed to an investment property where you're at best 15% with PMI, but typically you're at 20 or 25%. Right. So that's another really good, really good point you made. And then, you know the idea of raw land, right. Robert Kiyosaki beats up on raw land specifically, but he also gives examples of asking the question, asking different questions, and asked the question, how can I? And he's told his stories about, I wanted to have a boat in the Caribbean, a sailboat in the Caribbean. And so we asked the question, how can I buy this thing and not have it be a doodad, but instead have it be an investment. Right. And so you guys wanted land on the back of your primary residence, which was clearly a doodad. It would not add value to that property if you wanted to rent it out. Right. So raw land, he says that's speculation. There's no cash flow. Right. So you asked the question, how can I make that into an investment? And so you basically just added value to the asset and then cash out, refi it by, you know, selling some of the cattle. Right. And did you say that you actually paid off the land completely by doing that?

No. So what we've done is we make. Well, we were actually originally going to do an annual payment, but we do the monthly payment. But every October we sell all our cattle. So we actually sell twice a year, but we basically just take whatever money we sell in October, has covered the entire annual mortgage amount. So I will just take that money, put in an account and then just pay my, my payment with that. And then whatever money we make in the spring has still been positive cash flow that we've been able to pocket from that. So it's been pretty cool.

Awesome. Awesome. Okay, so let's talk about David Green and our connection there and how you came across him.

Yeah. So David, for those of you who don't know, and I'm sure most of you have heard his podcast on here is a very successful gentleman who was a full time police officer, gone real estate agent, gone extremely successful real estate agent. So I want to say last year was his rookie year. But regardless, last year he was the number one agent in his office. So he's done extremely well for himself. He's also written a book, which is one of my favorite books. In fact, when I was on the BiggerPockets podcast, that's the book that I mentioned as my favorite real estate book. And it's called the Book on Long Distance Real Estate Investing. And the reason it's so powerful is for a guy like me or anyone else who's active duty, military, or travels a lot, being able to understand how to refine your systems to invest back home, because I was already investing back in Missouri from, you know, four or 5,000 miles away across the Pacific Ocean. So to learn how to do that better has saved me a ton of effort. In fact, I've actually, like, I joke with him that I've literally copied and pasted some of his emails out of the book to build real estate agent teams and stuff like that. And they work. So David and I met a year and a half, two years ago when Brandon Turner was out here visiting, and we met over lunch, and at the time, we kind of joked about me becoming a real estate agent while I was active duty. And then that was about all she wrote. And then this year when he was back out here, he was like, why didn't you do that? You need to do that. Stop making excuses here. You should do it this way. And so I just passed my national estate exam, and I have an interview actually today to see about finalizing that process. So it's kind of funny.

Awesome. Congratulations. And so we all have our own past experiences that we bring as baggage, right? And one of the things that you mentioned was that you were experimenting on all these different aspects, which is awesome, right? You've understood raw land, and maybe you'll even learn development one day on there to put a property on the other side of it. You've done the house hack, where you've lived in it, you're learning the mortgage side of things with VA and FHA refinancing, but now you're doing flip or rehab. Local, community, local to where you are now. This is where some of the baggage comes in. Like, I have experience from a lot of clients trying to do this. I haven't personally tried it, but they get this idea with the BRRR strategy. The BRRRR strategy, which is big on bigger pockets, right? There's like this whole cult of BRRRR people.

And I'm not as big of a fan, only because the strategy's fine. I'm not a fan because two things really. One, I think the markets you have to do it in often can be very, very sketchy. But here's the big one is that many people try to do this remotely. And I know that David Green and he and I talked about this a little bit and he's like, yeah, you can do it, you can do it. I'm totally doing it. If you put it right team in place. But I want everyone out there to know that this is the top 1% of the 1% that are able to pull this off and they really actually are doing it full time remotely. But I think for the average person that could be extremely risky because you just don't know. Most of us aren't going to know the contractor we have on the ground there. You could just absolutely get fleeced. So I just, I want people to be very, very careful and thoughtful and have a mentor if you're going to do that and for the first time at least go out and meet those people and put eyes on target. But, but doing it locally, I think it's an absolutely incredible story and good plan. And I did something like that again when I was single and I think it was, it was amazing. I wish I had done it after that, but I quite frankly didn't have this podcast to listen to and that was a little self serving, but I didn't, I didn't think it was possible. I think it was possible. So let's talk VA loans real quick.

Yeah, so, okay, so to clarify, I'm not VA loan specialist, but.

No, actually not. Neither am I.

In research because I was failed as a youngster by a lender who basically told me like, hey, you can't use a VA loan on this because you'll never. Well, you can, but I wouldn't recommend it because you'll never be able to use your VA loan again. And do you really want to waste your VA loan on this little starter duplex? And I was like, no, I don't waste my VA loan. I've heard how me about how amazing the VA loan is, so I wouldn't want to waste that. Let's leave it to the side. Not knowing of course that I very well could use it again and again. And I just throwing $100 a month in primary mortgage insurance at my FHA loan now and I had to fork out an extra three grand to buy the property. So the biggest misconception I think for the VA loan is that you can only use it once. And that's not True. It does have to be your primary residence. So you have to live in the, in the property or, and here's one of the greatest loopholes is, or plan to live in the property within six months. So you can actually buy a property in, say I go to North Carolina next, I could buy a property there, you know, within six months of my arrival under the pretense that I'm going to live there when I get there. And I mean, at the end of the day, if my orders were to North Carolina and I did intend to live there, and then I ended up getting my orders changed, which happens in the military, that wouldn't be on me. So I would still have the property.

Right. And it allows you to renovate if necessary to make it livable, habitable. It was really is the intent so that you can get it going and you know, and get things in there. Perfect. Yeah. So I agree that's probably the biggest initial misconception is that it's a one and done thing. It's also, you know, it goes well beyond that, which you're probably about to comment on, that you can actually use it, not just so you can only use it once. So now everyone's like, okay, great, now I know that I can use it on this house and when I move I can sell that house and get the next one and use it there. But you can use it on multiple properties at the same time, which many people have missed out on. Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, so the stipulation there is I can't live in Oahu here and buy a house and then live in it for six months and buy the house next door and have both on VA loans that won't work. But what I can do is if I had a house here in Oahu and I had bought it with a VA loan, I could live in it, enjoy it, you know, make it my place. And then when I move, as long as I think the stipulation is 50 miles. So as long as you move, as long as it's a work related move and it's over 50 miles away, you can use it again. And that's, I mean that's really easy because now many of us do a permanent change of station only 50 miles down the road. It's, it's usually like across the ocean or across state lines. So then you move and because it was work related, you're now completely eligible to use the VA loan again. And it's not. There's also this rumor that the second time you use the VA loans, not as good as the first time? No, it's the same loan and it's the same standards and everything's the same. The only difference is you probably do it better because you know how to use the VA loan.

Now there's a little bit difference on the funding fee after the first one. So second and beyond, there's a little bit different on the interest rate, but it's minor. And here's the thing also is that many people get out of the military, so we're talking veterans now, but many people get out of the military with some level of disability and very frequently that stuff is waived. So that brings everything back down to the same level. Yeah, absolutely. What about the maximum caps? There's some misconceptions there, too. Are you familiar with that?

Yeah, so I think that I live in one of the areas where the maximum cap is much better.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the Max 635 or something?

Yeah, even more so it went. It's 721,500 or 721,050 is the number here.

The normal cap is 450, unless you're in one of the elevated areas, like you are, and like I am, basically, if you're in a coastal region, it's going to be higher. And so the details get a little bit more involved there. But here's the other thing, is that you can go over the cap even. So if you're in a place, let's say you've got 200,000 on your first property and two years later you've now moved and you want to do it again, but the new property is 300,000, and so you're over the 450 total. And you're probably thinking, ah, too bad, maybe I have to look for a smaller place. But that's not true. So the 50,000 that goes above whatever the cap is for your area, you have to pay a small portion on that. Basically, you have to give a little bit larger down payment than you otherwise would to cover them. Because what's happening is that when you get to the cap, the federal government says, hey, we're out, we're only covering to the cap. So you have to step in and basically provide a guarantee. And it's a very small percentage, 10 or 15% of that amount. So it's still even going above the cap is fine. So it's not even called a cap for that reason because that's misconstrued. I think the actual thing is a limit or something like that.

It'd still be cheaper than a Normal loan, even on just that part, because you're not paying the pmi, which is a huge expense.

Right. And then there's a bunch of refinance options that come in quick. Refinance that will happen if rates go down. That comes at no cost to you. Government kind of backed refinances. So there's a lot of advantages to using that. At least looking into it and becoming educated. And make sure you go to a specialist. Bottom line. Like the stuff I talk about that I do with life insurance and funding properties and all of that. You want to go to a specialist. If you just go to somebody and say, hey, please do what I heard on this podcast, it's not going to go pretty for you and you will end up doing what you and I both did and not using VA early on. I have the same story you did, David, of not doing it because I didn't go to the right person. Yeah. That's some great thoughts and feedback. Let's talk more about what your business offers or what your website offers and what you personally offer to other people.

Okay. Yeah, so I started this. It's a blog actually. At this point I have a blog and a YouTube channel which I think is main. I don't know if that's a personality thing. I started the YouTube channel and I'm starting to think that maybe I started the YouTube channel just because when I have a camera and editing software I can be a total goofball and nobody can stop me because I will catch myself leaving things in that I should have edited out with like me dancing and I don't know. Yeah, anyway, so total sidebar. But so the blog is called From Military to Millionaire and it is literally just kind of our story and it's done with the intent of helping other service member, public service general, you know, blue collar paid employee understand that. So there's the stigma in the military, Right. Everybody who likes to walk around and say we don't get paid enough because they look at their W2 and they think, wow, I don't make any money. And then they don't look at the rest. So for me personally right now my W2 says like $42,000 a year, which you're right, is not a whole lot of money, especially to live in Hawaii. But if you factor everything else in, it's like 107 and I have a house on base with a million dollar view and I don't pay maintenance and I mean it's just a great deal and people forget that part and then they Forget like, hey, if I had to make 107 to make the same I'm making now. Well, no, because I'm not getting taxed on the other $60,000. So the blog is basically designed to try to mitigate the stigma that we in public service and military don't get paid enough. And try to teach that you do if you know how to use your money and try to change the perspective and help other service members understand that the little creativity and a little research, you can actually set yourself up to where, like, my goal is when I retire is to just never have to work again unless I want to. We're well on our way to being able to do that through rental income. So the blog and the YouTube channel are basically geared. They talk a little bit about personal development and investing in general, but I try to spend most of it towards real estate because that's what I'm better at and just different investing strategies and how to analyze a property. And I try to do this. I just got this new segment called Analysis Wednesday where I actually walk through deals and I share my screen. And so far every deal I've tried to analyze has come up not working out. So maybe one day I'll find one that works and I'll be able to show how I go further with that process. Yeah, so that's kind of the gist, I guess.

Awesome. So, man, some great input there. And I've looked through your website. I think it's just fantastic. You've got some other great stuff in there too, I think probably from your recruiting days, like, why do salesmen have a bad reputation? And obviously I'm in sales and I love. I think it's. You know, Zig Ziglar was right when he said it was one of. It was the most honorable profession on earth throughout all time. And I absolutely believe he's right. And I also also agree with some of the stuff that you had written in that blog was very well written about. Everything is sales, right? Everything in life is sales. Get to the restaurant you wanted to go to by convincing the others that it was the best option. That was sales anyway. We don't need to go down that path. But I love your blog. I love your website. I think there's great value there for all members of the military and first responders that want to go and should go and take a look at it. What else have we not talked about, David? What have we missed?

I guess if I had to any other nugget, right, that I like to try to tell people and there's an article on this as well in the blog and that is the word network, right? Which is like the single most powerful thing so you can read a book. Which I did not enjoy doing. So I listened to them on tape most of the time. I'm an Audible guy and I only seem to buy a book after I've listened to it on Audible and I go, okay, I might have missed something. That was a good book. Let me go back, read it so I can highlight it. And that's still a very slow process. I'm more of a auditory but networking. So read a book is great, but networking and meeting with people and I have gained more from just getting out in the community. So I actually started a couple months ago I started a like a real estate meetup here in Oahu with the intention of, hey, every time I want to go to one of these meetups, it's like 40 minutes away on the other side of the island and I can't afford to do that during the week. So why don't I just start one. We had a great response. We actually started in true Marine Corps fashion. We started meeting in a bar, a very cool bar where like, it's like family oriented, bring your own food, board games. I mean it wasn't a crazy place, but we outgrew it in like month two. So now we meet in a church down the street and we had probably 25 or 30 people last month. We've got a speaker coming this month and all of that's great. But what's really been great about it is through that networking I have already met, I've got a deal potentially going in California. I've got a new lender that I'm a going to talk to you more about the VA loan. But also Baby B does some very unique stuff with lending and has offered to partner with me on some things. So that's going to pay off. I think people miss. It's very easy to not make time to go out of your way on a weeknight or a weekend night and go stand around this awkward thing where you meet new people that you don't know and you don't know what's going to happen. But just getting around people who are already doing what you want to be doing is like the single most powerful way to get there because they will literally grab you as long as. And I talk about being a likable person. My phrase is if they like you, they'll join. So obviously trying to be somebody that brings value and is worth getting to know, but they will pull you up to their level. So, like Brandon and Turner and David Green and those guys. I got on that podcast, and I got on that podcast because I met them, and I only met them because I showed up at this random thing on a beach when Brandon was in town once, and I started talking to people, and Brandon happened to be there and. And next thing, you know, connections and stuff. And I've made a deal out of that. So I guess if I had to talk about anything else, it would probably be the power of networking. They say, what is it? They say that your wealth is the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. And I think that's extremely valuable because every time I hang out with people that are way out of my league and in the investing world, I end up jumping off a cliff and doing something new. That is YouTube channel.

So that's awesome. That's awesome. Well. Well, that was worth the podcast right there. And then that was your extra nugget. So this has been fantastic, David, but I agree with you. You know, Jim Rome was probably most famous, but many people have said that, that you are the sum total of the five people you spend your most time with. And so if you want to think that real estate investing is possible, then go spend time around real estate investors. Right? That's how you do it. And the other thing I would say is that, you know, that is. That would be my probably number one lesson learned this year as well, is just be a connector. Be a connector. And I would say that that's like the really, if you distill down what networking is doing, it's adding value to other people. Right? Zig Ziglar. You know, you can have everything in life you want if you help enough other people get what they want. And that's what you're doing out there when you're networking. Like, you started, I mean, it's a fantastic job. You started a real estate group and you have added value to their world. And now all of a sudden, they're starting to add value to your world. And, you know, that's. That's not surprising. It's expected, right? And so every, you know, I believe that every time you get in a conversation with someone else, just think, how can I add value to their world? Like, can I connect them with someone else? And, you know, a lot of people, and every time this happens, it's like a tree now, you know, 10 more people. And, you know, podcasting is an awesome way to do it, but just connecting People listening to a podcast and saying, hey, you know what? Send an email. I have this person that may help be able to help there, you know, so always try to connect other people. That's really what you're doing in a physical networking event. But you can do it online, you can do it on podcasts, you can do it in email, Right? So, awesome, awesome recommendation, David. Thank you so much for joining us. One last word or any last thought.

I think I'm good. Thank you for having me on your show. It was great.

I guess I could caveat onto your last statement there about the emails and networking and just say that that's actually how I ended up as a guest on your podcast, is through somebody that your friend who is a connector, I guess, who emailed me and cc'd you. So, I mean, that in itself right there, I guess, is proof in the pudding about just getting out there and talking to people, because that was out of nowhere in my inbox. And it's been an absolute pleasure.

So, yeah, absolutely. So me and just about everyone who's been on my podcast, we believe that, and certainly you believe that and walk Zig Ziglar's phrase that we just talked about there. So if you listeners, if any of you need help with anything, just reach out to any one of us or just reach to GaryaryPinkerton.com and I'll connect you with the other guys. But I guarantee you that somebody you've listened to in these 50 or 60 episodes has the answer to what you want, and they can help you. And I'm gladly connected with you, man. David, this is the start to a great relationship. Awesome. Thanks for being on my show.

Yeah, thank you for having me.

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