HS 152 - The Agorism Revolution With Austin Petersen

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It's my pleasure to welcome Austin Peterson to the show. He is director of production at Freedom Works as well as the executive producer and CEO of Stonegate Pictures llc, a for profit consulting firm that provides high end video and photography as well as consulting services for a wide range of clients. And Austin, welcome. How are you?

I'm great. Thank you very much for having me, Jason.

Good, good. I always like to give our guests a sense of geography. Where are you located today?

I'm located in Washington, D.C. fantastic.

Well, that's the mecca of bailouts and the new business capital of the world, in a way.

Heart of the beast.

Yeah. Yeah, it is, it is. So tell us a little bit about what it is. You do. And let's dive into some subjects ranging from maybe Internet sales tax, Bitcoin, and the military takeover of Boston recently in the wake of the tragic bombings.

Absolutely, yeah. Starting off with. Probably the most interesting topic for our audience is the one of the militarization of Boston. And I think the reason that we, as libertarians, people who care about freedom, need to discuss this is because libertarians, we often get criticized for not having any sense of security, national security, local security. We talk about the Second Amendment, but we don't talk about when things like that occur. How do we defend ourselves in such a way so that we don't feel like we need the state? Because I think right now, the mentality of the American people is such that we just. We expect the police to behave like that because we do not have any sense of, get out the posse and ride, find this guy. And I'm not saying that's good or bad, but, like, the value question there is that, you know, the police, the state, they are going to have a response that is bigger and bigger. The more and more people are expecting their security to be contracted out to the state.

Well, let me just mention something, Austin, that's interesting about the massive, in my opinion, police overreaction to Boston. And just a couple of months ago, you might remember Christopher Dorner, the rogue cop in la, where the police basically torched someone's house. I mean, where. Where is the victim of that talking? But, but what's interesting about these two cases is in both cases, civilians found the bad guy, not the police.

Right? Absolutely. But here's my question to you, and I want to, like, pose this out there as a challenge. You know, people say, well, now they want drones in Boston, you know, next year, that they want to have domestic drones. And I'm just curious, is it, Is it. Is the drone really a problem if a private citizen uses it? And if it's not a problem for a private citizen to use it, like, let's say, you know, my brother, for example, was right in Watertown where that occurred, you know, and let's say he had an observation drone and wanted to use that drone to go after a suspect, you know, or to police around his private property. Should there be any restrictions on that? And if so, you know, what sort of restrictions would apply to private citizens protecting their own property versus the restrictions that libertarians may want to place on the government? I'm sort of conflicted because, you know, drones have existed for quite a long time, and private civilians have been using them for Years, Decades. You know, an RC helicopter is a drone and you know, mounting a camera on it, it's something that's kind of been a fad in recent years. But I'm just curious, you know, if libertarians are against the use of drones in a situation where instead of rolling tanks down the street or rolling the cops, who you might arguably be more dangerous, would it be less, you know, more fiscally conservative and more respective of individual rights if the police were allowed to use drones? And I'm not saying that I endorse that, but what I want to ask libertarians or people who believe in this is if private citizens can use them for observation or for defending their own property, could the police use them for defending their own property? And I asked this question to a group.

Wait, wait, wait. Are you saying, did you mean to say that the. I'm kind of curious about that. Did you mean to say that the other way around? Did you mean to say if police can use them, private citizens should be able to use them or. Because you said it the opposite way. I think.

Well, right, because I think the reality is that the police are going to take that right to use that.

Oh, of course they are.

And so what I think the argument should be on a libertarian side of things is that anything that the police own, the private citizens should be able to own as well.

Well, you know what's interesting about that, Austin, thankfully a few gun manufacturers feel the same way. You may have, I'm sure you caught that in the news about, I don't know, three, four weeks ago. I think it was a couple of gun manufacturers said we're not going to sell any gun to law enforcement that a civilian can't buy.

Right, right. Well, that's the thing is that, you know, when you talk about things like drones, you know, I think what happens sometimes is that libertarians sort of have a knee jerk reaction to this kind of technology because of how it's being used unconstitutionally by the executive right now. And so what I think what has happened that's muddied the debate in the past few weeks is libertarians are saying, you know, well, we've got to ban drones. We can't have drones on the homeland. Well, there already are drones on the homeland. And I think that the debate should be what are the constitutional protections that we as citizens are going to lay out for ourselves, you know, respecting our fourth Amendment rights, you know, and our ability to, you know, have the right to be in our homes without, you know, unnecessary searches. So if a draw, if they're searching for a fleeing suspect. It's going to be very hard to tell the American people, you know, no, the police should not be able to use drones. Well, basically, what you're saying there is that we have to spend even more money and put police officers in a helicopter and pursue a fleeing suspect through a possible dangerous urban area. So I want to challenge people to think about these questions, because the value questions, I think, are different from the legal questions. The value questions are, do we want drones being used domestically? The answer, no. Are they going to be used domestically? Yes. But can we do something together to use our constitutional due process to make sure that no drones can be used unless authorized by a warrant or in case of exigent circumstances such as this Boston bombing? And so I think that, you know, we, as libertarians, we have to. Sometimes we can all agree on the value questions. Do we want, you know, do we want a society full of drones? No. Are we going to get a society full of drones?

Yes. We're not going to get what we want is what you're saying.

Right? Well, we're not going get that. But what I think what we should be asking for, what we could get, are constitutional protections of individual rights, meaning that, you know, if the police are using these types of technology, this technology should be open to use. Now, I really, really, really want to stress an important point here, because one of the things that libertarians, they think about is that, you know, well, if drones are weaponized and they're used domestically, well, then, you know, people are going to be killed. Yeah, probably. And that is why the difference between a weaponized drone and a surveillance drone, the difference. Because a surveillance drone is something where, if you had a hostage situation, for example, you know, you've got somebody on the 10th floor, you want to know where the hostages are. Should. Should the police be able to use a surveillance drone after a warrant has been issued to go and put, like, put it up on the 10th floor so that you could stealthily find out where your hostages are to secure their safe release? Absolutely. However, the difference between a surveillance drone and a weaponized drone is, is that it is impossible for a drone to be placed in imminent danger. Meaning that if a robber comes out of a store and is shooting and he's shooting at police, you have a right to shoot him. It doesn't matter what you shoot him with, but you have a right to fire back and to do that because a life is in imminent danger. The difference between that and a person and a drone is a drone is not alive. You cannot put the life of a drone into imminent danger. So if a robber comes out of a store and there's a drone there with a gun, you cannot just kill him because that would be an execution and that would be a violation of due process.

Oh, now this is interesting. I'm not sure people, including myself, fully grasp what you're saying there. You're saying because are you saying that the military or the civilian police force cannot put, say, a police officer into imminent danger?

Well, here's the thing.

They seem like they're in imminent danger frequently.

No, a person can be in imminent danger. The question here is that how is it legal and ethical to use drones and using them for surveillance as a, when a warrant has been issued seems to me to be ethical. And as long as it doesn't violate our fourth amendment rights and we've got those kinds of constitutional protections, fine. However, the reason why domestic drones should not be allowed to be armed is this. Because if domestic drones are armed and they're sent into to chase someone down and execute them, that is a violation of due process. If a police officer is chasing a suspect and his life is in imminent danger because the suspect starts shooting at him, the officer has the right to fire back. Now if a suspect is fleeing and they're being chased by a weaponized drone and they shoot at the drone, it doesn't matter. The drone is just a piece of plastic. You can't just execute someone with a drone unless someone else's life is in imminent danger. And these are legal questions that libertarians really have to understand because the difference between a certain surveillance drone and a weaponized drone is night and day. And a weaponized drone is something that is used for assassinations. It should not, absolutely not be used on the homeland, because a weaponized drone used on the homeland would be a violation of due process.

But you know, I mean, look at Obama's already shown that he's quite willing to violate people's due process and hunt essentially American citizens for execution. So you, we both well know we are going to see weaponized drones, military more and more military style weapons used on the homeland, which is unconstitutional in my opinion, clearly. I mean, against American citizens, which even makes it more unconstitutional. And when you talk about the surveillance drones, I mean, we should have some way to electronically defeat their surveillance and protect our constitutional rights.

I mean, you would. Yeah, you should, should. Because the thing is, is that if a drone is flying over your home and you, you know, and if they don't have any warrant to be flying over your home, then there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to sort of, you know, defend against that. The problem is, is that that, that drone, if that drone is, you know, do you. Do you own the private property of the air above your head?

Not usually. We don't usually own the airspace. But. But even. Even if it's not a home that you own, what if you're a tenant? What if you, you know, problem is, you get into this whole issue that the lawyers use called expectation of privacy. So when you're outdoor in your own backyard and you're sunbathing with no clothing, nudist sunbathing. Right. Do you have a right to privacy in your backyard? It's outdoors. I mean, Barbra Streisand sued a photographer years ago for taking pictures of her home from the air. And I don't know what the outcome of that case was, but she basically claimed it was a violation of her right to privacy. But then it gets into, for example, I live in a high rise, and I've actually seen this. It's pretty amazing. I mean, it's kind of a cool thing that happens occasionally here, but a helicopter will fly not above me or not even at my own eye level, but below me. That's how high. How high my building is. And, you know, if a drone flies by, they could look in my windows. Now I'm so high up in the air that I almost never close my blinds because I have an expectation of privacy being this high, and I pay a lot for that. So there are all sorts of issues there that are very important. But the drone thing is really, really scary. And I think every American should be extremely fearful of the way they're being used and the way they're going to be used, which will be much more invasive than it is.

Right, right. I hate to use the word fearful because I don't like to be like the politicians and tell people they should be afraid or anything like that, because I wouldn't.

Yeah, but they shouldn't be.

Well, they shouldn't be scared. We should be brave. Because if we're going to take our country back and we're going to demand protections of our rights that have been ingrained in the Constitution, then I think we have to be brave and bold, and we have to be able to fight back with question, with boldness, because, you know, if they've got us, if they've got us afraid, then we start behaving on their terms. We need to take the battle to them.

Fair Enough. Fair enough. Okay, so talk about that a little bit. I mean, you know, I think everybody kind of gets the whole drone problem, you know, at least after listening to us for a few minutes here. But any action steps that you can recommend that people can do to really get this under control because this technology is scary. And folks, just one more thought on this and feel free to comment on this too, but these drones aren't what you think. I mean, these drones are getting as small as insects to where now they have drones currently. And they'll get smaller and better, I'm sure. The size of a dragonfly. Okay. And a dragonfly isn't that big. It's maybe what, 5 inches long? It's big for an insect, but it's not big for a drone. They can fly by your window and potentially, and certainly take pictures and video, but potentially leave things there that can bug your conversation and pick up audio. All kinds of really scary elements to this or elements we should be brave about, however you want to put it.

Absolutely. Well, here's. And yeah, and here's the question. So here's the thing that I want to know. And like a lot of, you know, libertarians, you know, they talk about things like intellectual property, how there shouldn't be any intellectual property. But let me just pose again, pose another tough question. If a private owner of one of these drones owns a mosquito sized drone and they happen to fly that drone, you know, near your property and they're observing, let's say, that you own a competing business to them and they're listening to everything you're saying, they're recording your movements, they're recording your business so that they can learn how to basically steal your secret recipe.

Little corporate espionage there, little corporate espionage there.

So you gotta. It's not just the government using these things that we necessarily have to look at, it's how private citizens use them as well. And I guess the question really is do we have a right to privacy? And if we do have a right to privacy, where is that in the Constitution? And how do we, how do we sort of flesh out those kinds of privacy rights?

And of course we're both saying we do have a right to privacy and we better make sure Facebook and Google know that too.

Yeah, absolutely. Because, well, you know, but the question there, at least with the corporation, you voluntarily are giving your information to the corporation.

Fair enough, and I agree with you. But in practicality, these corporations become so big and so pervasive that I would almost bet that someone like yourself is not on Facebook but certainly, I'm sure you use Google products and right now you're using Skype, which is owned by Microsoft. And I would submit to you that nowadays it's almost becoming that you need to use Facebook because it would be like years ago not having a telephone. You really can't fully exist and engage in society without it.

Right, right.

So then it becomes governmental, it becomes an infrastructure issue. And even if it's a privately owned entity, it becomes like infrastructure in a sense.

I mean, I would be careful about comparing it too much to government because again, remember, government is coercive. You know, you choose to be on Facebook and you know, I have to be. I always, like, I hate to be the corporate defender here, but you know, again, I envision a, you know, a free society where, you know, people can form corporations and voluntary leave and, you know, go at will. But when it comes to a right to privacy, I mean, like, you know, you don't. If you don't want your privacy violated, you know, don't get on Facebook. But so I don't know, I mean, like, I sort of like, I feel like there is a right to privacy, but a right to privacy sort of is null and void when you are voluntarily committing your information to a corporation. Now let's look at this another way. Let's take a look at if. Do you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your own home? If you are observable from the street? So if you are, let's say, coming out of shower and you're nude and someone is standing on the street taking pictures from the street, yes, you do.

There should be no peeping Tom. That's illegal to be a peeping Tom.

Right, right. But the question is, is like, is that what I mean, what are they really violating? You know what I mean? Because the thing is that they haven't come onto your property, you're in view. What sort of rights do you have? I mean, all they're doing is taking a video, for example. They haven't done anything other than take your picture. Do you own your photo? Do you own your likeness, your image? So these are the kind of questions that, you know, that I think libertarians, you know, have got to formulate some good answers for, because the public, certainly they're gonna. If we don't come up with better solutions, people are just gonna assume the state, the state every time as a default. So I think we've got to find out, find some sort of intermediary steps for privacy rights for Americans that they can digest so that we don't have to, you know, say that we're giving up. You know, it's all or nothing either way. Black, white, Republican, or Democrat. Does that make sense?

Yeah, certainly. Companies have been able to trademark their images of even buildings they own. I read an article years ago, I think it was in the Wall Street Journal about how the owners of the Empire State Building were suing people for selling T shirts with the image of the Empire State Building on it. And what they did to protect it is they went and they trademarked the image of the Empire State Building and said, look, we're the owners of this building. We own its image. And I. To have sovereignty in one's person, we should be able to own our image. Now, the problem is they're going to say, similar to the way they view, like, libel and slander laws. They're going to say, well, if you're a celebrity, you don't have the right to it. Because then Jay Leno and Conan o' Brien could never tell a joke about a celebrity that's somewhat defamatory. They'd get sued all the time. But I don't know. These are all. This is the reason we have courts. Okay. And advocate lawyers. Right?

Yeah. Well, you know, some libertarians are even against those. So, you know, we've got to figure out what's the best way for us to protect our rights and how do we define those rights? I think that at the moment, our rights are slipping away in situations like Boston. And if anything, it's because libertarians like ourselves are not offering those solutions. We're sort of just ranting against the state and criticizing the police state, but we're not questioning the legal question. And how come people aren't set up at Boston? Libertarians aren't set up at Boston, Boston, walking door to door at every single door that those. Those thugs knocked on and saying, here's a copy of the Constitution. These are your rights. These are your civil liberties. This is what you say when a police officer talks to you. This is how you defend your rights. You know what I mean? Like, why isn't that happening right now?

Yep, very good points. I mean, I saw images, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners did, of people having guns pointed at them in Boston being forced out of their home so the police could invade their home to inspect it.

Happened to my brother. Happened to my brother.

Did it really? Wow. Yeah. And then the question comes, what if. And I assume, yeah, in Massachusetts, marijuana is illegal. So what if someone had a marijuana joint sitting out on the countertop when the cops invaded their house without a search warrant, do they then become prosecuted for something else that the cops find that they wouldn't have otherwise found?

Right. That's why I'm saying all of our friends that are libertarians in Watertown, Massachusetts and Boston, you need to be going around to those neighborhoods right now and telling everybody who got their house searched, these are your rights. You know, you need to know these rights in case, you know, and we don't even know if you're going to get your Miranda rights in anymore in the future, if you happen to be born in a different country or, you know, have some strange religious beliefs that the majority of people want to persecute? So, you know, I think it's absolutely crucial that Americans are educated on their civil rights, their civil liberties, and the Constitution. That is the only way we are going to be able to hold off the rising tide of statism in the short term until we can begin to take the high ground and start actually being the abolitionists that we want to be with a lot of these government, bloated government bureaucracies.

Yeah, boy, it's. It's something else. Okay, anything else you want to say about Boston Watertown? Because I want to just have you touch on a little bit of the bitcoin phenomenon that's been pretty largely reported lately. And also the Internet sales tax issue that, by the way, was just sort of shoved under the rug while Boston was going on, huh?

Right, Right, yes, absolutely.

Convenient that those. They were able to just kind of like the media didn't pay any attention to that.

Right, right. And the real issue with the new Internet sales tax law, they call it the marketplace fairness law, is that, is that the Republicans are the ones for most part, that are kind of coming out and saying, yeah, we need to do this. And sort of what's happening is that, you know, they're trying to pass, you know, the sales tax on the Internet and Citize are going to have to start paying sales taxes to different states, which, as it stands, I believe is unconstitutional. And I think that if, you know, libertarians don't get active in this fight right now, we're going to find ourselves paying higher taxes for our cell phones online, whenever we purchase things online. I mean, I know that I certainly don't think it's fair for someone to have to pay a tax if they don't have a brick and mortar store in the state. Why are you having to pay a sales tax or a business if it doesn't have a Brick and mortar there. And so what we really need to look at is the fact that we've got all of these Republicans coming out and saying it. Like South Dakota Governor Dennis Daugaard, he's a Republican. He's like, you know, this is a matter of equity and fairness. Well, you know, just because the bill is called the Marketplace Fairness act doesn't mean it has anything to do with it. They could call it the Don't Kick Puppies Act.

Okay, okay. But I know that, and that's a lot of these bills are total misnomers, of course. But I'm going to almost take be the devil's advocate here on this, because look at, I sell online. People buy my products online. I don't have to worry about complex sales tax issues or anything like that. And if I owned a brick and mortar store, I would say this is just. It's just fair. All these brick and mortar stores, and a lot of these, honestly, are Main Street America, which I'm not a big fan of. Corporatocracy. I mean, you know, I like business better than government, but when it becomes really, really big, big, big, big business and Wall street, they typically become a bunch of abusive crooks. So, I don't know. You know, I kind of want to see little Main street businesses able to compete.

Well, I do. But just remember, it's bills like this that make it so that they can't compete, because what happens is that the corporations write the regulations and then the government passes them because the big corporations can afford to pay the regulations and the taxes. It's the little guys that get screwed because they're the ones who are going into the marketplace. They don't have any kinds of subsidies, and they sure as heck can't afford to pay the higher taxes, even though the larger industries can. That's why they demand regulation.

Of course they do. No, I totally get that. Because what it does is it creates a barrier to entry and it keeps competition out, no question. And that is what Wall street and the SEC are all about. And the FDA to a large extent, too. So read Milton Freeman on that stuff, folks, because he's got some really interesting things to say about licensure and the fda. I don't know what he says about Wall street, but the fda, he gives some pretty good examples. So I'll definitely agree with you on that. And here's another thing about it just going to your side of things. If you do tax online sales, do you realize how complex this gets for every online seller? It's not A matter of collecting. It's not a matter of my clients. My buyers will have to pay more so much as it is managing and paying the tax to every little state and municipality. I, I mean, the kind of software and consulting that will be required to maintain compliance for a small Internet seller will be unbelievably complex and expensive.

Yeah, absolutely. And the thing is that the software.

Amazon.com can do it. It'll be no problem for them.

Right, right. Because, yeah, again, Amazon.com, they support it. But again, look at ebay. The reason ebay is against it is because they're composed of mostly smaller sellers, so they've got the most to lose. And again, you talk about fearing the corporatocracy. The big corporations like Amazon, they don't have as much to worry about. They can implement the software probably with no issues. But then again, when the government says that something's going to be easy, you know, it never is. Right. And so what I think is going to happen is this is going to drive transactions more over to bitcoin, which is really exciting new online. They call it cryptocurrency digital currency. And it's sort of had some ups and downs in the marketplace as it sort of struggled to find its place in the, you know, amongst the world currencies. It's very exciting though, right now because it turns out that now physical bitcoins are going to be offered. Each physical bitcoin will have a holographic stamp underneath it that you peel off and you can trade them. And once you can trade the coins and then the way to know not to get a bitcoin if it has the seal broken that way, you know, it's already been transacted with. But that to me is an exciting thing because Congressman Ron Paul was just complaining last week about bitcoin. He was saying, oh, well, I like gold better because at least I can carry it in my pocket. And then turns around, boom, 24 hours later, we see that they're making physical bitcoins so that people can feel like they've got something even if it still has a digital counterpart. So, yeah, to me, this is exciting. These are the kinds of things that I think libertarians, even though it seems kind of kooky in a way, there are some kooky ideas that seem kooky before they became mainstream. And when the government comes in and says, we're going to start proposing an Internet sales tax, I can pretty much guarantee you that if they do something, something like that, you're going to see a rise in value of bitcoin as people start to look for alternatives to avoid our oppressive taxation system.

Yeah, I just caution listeners to be careful of the bitcoin thing. I mean, you can find many videos on YouTube that explain how it's a Ponzi scheme. And I don't know, I've studied it and it's a cool idea. And the other thing I think is they'll probably drop, just find a way to make a law against it. Of course, they crack down a lot on those gift cards and those mastercards and American Express cards that you can buy at CVS and Rite Aid and Walgreens or Best Buy because they claimed, which may be true, that drug dealers and terrorists were using them. And any alternative currency that competes with the Federal Reserve or the central banks of other countries, believe me, there is going, and this is true with gold and silver too. There is going to always be a huge, very well funded and very powerful campaign against it. Maybe they'll use the legal tender laws. I don't know. I would. I'm concerned that they'll find a way to just outlaw bitcoin.

Well, they really, they really can't. And the thing the reason is, is because it's similar when people say, oh well, Obama's gonna, you know, have an Internet kill switch. You know, you can't do that. The thing is, is that the way the Internet works is that, you know, two computers is an Internet you can, you can put together. You know, servers exist all over the world with multiple redundancies. And bitcoins as they work, they aren't stationed in one area. It's not like any, it's not like with the Liberty Dollar where this guy was raided by the feds because he had a store of gold and silver that backed his paper currency that he created. No, bitcoins don't exist like that. They exist as, you know, part of an algorithm that exists, you know, out on the Internet in the ethos. And there's just no way for anybody, for one person to just hack it and take it down because there's too many servers all over the world that are carrying this currency. So the exciting thing really about bitcoin is the fact that it is pure anarchy and there's really nothing that the government can do about it. They can try and shut down certain stores, but those will prop up again. And I think really the question is how willing are people to invest in something that the government will eventually try and regulate. But in my opinion, I really think that this is probably going to be the battle lines drawn between the Federal Reserve and the people, because when enough people are doing enough transactions. So, for example, like Cyprus, we saw what happened with Cyprus when the value of bitcoin soared because everybody in Cyprus was pouring their money into this currency where they couldn't. Where nobody could steal it, where the banksters couldn't steal it. And so I honestly see something like this happening again for things like the Internet sales act. Every time the government acts, the market reacts. And that can be a good thing because what happens is sometimes the black market ends up providing goods and services more efficiently than a regulated market would be. So I don't really fear economic crackdowns too much on things like bitcoin just because I understand how the decentralized nature of that currency works. And I love seeing it frustrate the hell out of all these analysts.

I do too. I love the fact that it's bugging them.

I do too.

I know.

I used to work at Fox for two years. I was the producer for Judge Napolitano. And I was shocked when I got there because although the technical skill of many of those people is matched by some of the brilliance of some of the people, when it came to just your everyday, average news anchors, the talent of reading on camera didn't extend to the brain cells. And what was happening, what I was seeing is that these are financial experts, blah, blah, blah, but they only know finances that they are taught according to their business schools. And they have no concept of economics writ large, macroeconomics or microeconomics. Really?

Well, because just like a professor in a school, you know, they're in a womb. They don't have real world experience usually.

Yeah, very rare that you'll, that you'll find an anchor who could say, oh yeah, bitcoin, the digital cryptocurrency. And this is how currencies work. This is how economics works, you know, this is why, what's happening? No, instead, whenever major financial news occurs that a libertarian nature, they're confused as hell. And then the network executives tell them, well, the Fed doesn't like it, it doesn't have to do with it, so just bash it or just make it look kooky or have Ron Paul on to bash it, apparently, I guess. But no, I'm surprised. But the world is going to see, because when people are given the opportunity to do business with one another in a manner that allows them to avoid taxes totally anonymously, you're going to see more things like Cyprus in the future. And you just, just watch things like bitcoin are going to proliferate.

Yeah, well, very interesting. Well, hey Austin, give out your website and tell people where they can learn more about you and your work.

Sure, absolutely. Right now my website is www.thelibertarianrepublic.com or you can just go to libertarianrepublic.com. it's where I do my op eds and reporting and publish a lot of news there that's relevant to the liberty community. And I also have a Facebook page that I'd like people to go to. Facebook.com producer Petersen and that's P R O D U C E R P E T E R S E N. My name is Austin Peterson and it's spelled all e's, no O's. So those are the two places where I do a lot of my blogging and a lot of my projects come out there. So if you're looking for Austin Peterson on the net, that's where you should go.

All right, Austin Peterson, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you very much, Jason.

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