HS 315 - FBF – Practical Self-Defense Skills Needed For Modern Survival with Michael Pace

Welcome to the holistic Survival show with Jason Hartman. The economic storm brewing around the world is set to spill into all aspects of our lives. Are you prepared? Where are you going to turn for the critical life skills necessary to survive and prosper? The holistic survival show is your family's insurance for a better life. Jason will teach you to think independently, to understand threats and how to create the ultimate action plan. Sudden change or worst case scenario, you'll be ready. Welcome to holistic survival, your key resource for protecting the people, places and profits you care about in uncertain times. Ladies and gentlemen, your host, Jason Hartman.

Welcome to the holistic Survival show number seven. This is your host, Jason Hartman. Glad you could join me today and I hope you've been enjoying the show. It is a relatively new show where we talk about protecting the people, places and profits that matter to you in uncertain times. And if you are interested in the profit part of that equation, the last p I highly recommend that if you're not a listener now that you listen to my creating wealth show, we just published show number 118 and we have a wealth of information, well over a hundred hours of content there that I think you'll really, really like. So that's the creating wealth show and it's all available to you by searching Jason Hartman in the itunes store or go to Jason hartman.com and you can listen. Alright. Today, the holistic survival show. We are going to talk about street self defense and you can listen in to my interview with martial arts expert Michael Pace. And we are going to talk about defending yourself. We're going to talk about brute force, we're going to talk about physicality and hopefully you will never need any of the stuff we talk about today. But just in case, it never hurts to be prepared. So let's go to the interview with Michael Pace. It's my pleasure to welcome Mike Pace to the show. Mike is a self defense and martial arts expert and he's put together his own system that takes into account many different martial arts. And I think you'll find this interview fascinating for that all too important and all too practical art of self defense. Mike, welcome.

Thank you. Thanks for having me today Jason.

It's great to have you on. So tell us a little bit about self defense. Of course I think we know why it's important but you know, kind of give us your take on it and let's drill down into the subject.

Okay. Well obviously you know, today's world is a little different than it was back just, just really a few years ago. And today, I think it's important for everyone to have at least a rudimentary understanding of basic self defense and be able to, to, to at least know what to do and how to react in a, in a dangerous situation.

Now, you've been teaching martial arts for like 42 years, is that correct?

Yeah, I've been studying and teaching for. For. Yes, since 1967. So it's. It's been a long time.

Yeah, fantastic. What, what is the most important element? In effect, the most important element is.

Dealing with the adrenal rush, which is a natural result of aggression.

So you say the adrenal rush. Do you mean the fight or flight response then?

Yes, exactly. Under stress, under fear, which is a natural result, even for someone with training. Your heartbeat starts to accelerate rapidly and there is a major, we call it an adrenal dump. The adrenal glands really pour in a tremendous amount into the bloodstream and it races the heart. And it has a lot of effects that, unless you've experienced them, it catches people really off guard. For example, some of the effects of the adrenal rush are that you get tunnel vision, so your vision to the peripheral really is eliminated or minimized greatly. You also lose fine motor coordination. You get the shakes. You feel real shaky inside. You lose a good amount of cognitive thinking. So you don't have necessarily the resources to dig deep within your mind to choose and pick what you're going to do. So with all these things happening simultaneously, a lot of people just freeze and virtually do nothing in a dangerous situation.

That is really amazing. The system that was sort of set up to protect us actually becomes a liability in a threat situation.

It does. You know, yes, we get stronger and more powerful. And you hear stories about people lifting someone off a. Under a car and different things. That's all true, but at the same time, the effects of it can be very negative. And unfortunately, a great amount of the information that's been given out and been taught traditionally at many martial arts schools, courses, videos and so on, does not take into the account the adrenal rush. And over the years we had an interesting. I'll tell you an interesting story. A number of years ago, I was at a national martial arts convention and they were doing a demonstration on adrenal stress training. And it was the first time that I had really seen it. It was about 10 years ago. And the audience that I was in, just to put things in perspective, were several hundred martial arts instructors. They were school owners and instructors, and they get on stage and they bring out this guy dressed in this, what we call a bullet man suit, this body armor. And they asked for a couple of volunteers. And what they asked the volunteers to do was to basically to attack this bullet man because the body armor protected them for full contact training and asked them to go out and to pull the trigger at the right time. When they felt that they couldn't avoid the confrontation with verbal type defenses or spatial defenses, they needed to actually get, get into, you know, a physical confrontation. And it really was amazing because these were all trained black belts. And this guy gets up on stage in this, in this outfit and he starts screaming and yelling and cursing and, you know, using street language and all kinds of things. And those of us sitting in the, in the seats were, could feel ourselves shaking inside. I mean, just from, just from being in that room and listening to the intensity of what was going on. And I watched black belt at the black belt go up there and almost look foolish trying to defend against this, this armored attacker.

And it was just because of what, how this guy looked and what he was saying, his yelling and screaming that sort of intimidated everybody. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. You know, the odd part about it is, is that it does, it affects everybody whether you're trained or aren't trained. It's just that, you know, if you expect that and you learn to, to accept it and to use that power as opposed to letting it, you know, ruffle your feathers and causes you to react in ways that you're not expecting, even, even someone with a lot of training can really fall apart. And in my case, when I, when I saw that and felt it just from sitting there, I said, you know, this is something that I need to at least experience and see what it's about. From that point on, we got involved with the, with the creators of this particular system, and I had them come to my school. We did a number of seminars and we got so heavily involved with it, I actually became a part of that whole training scenario. And we have, you know, we now have the body armor and we do the seminars and so on ourselves. But the important part was the process that we, that we learned and derived from this type of training because it caused us really to revamp and to change everything that we were teaching and had been teaching for a lot of years.

It seems to me, Mike, like the way to overcome that adrenal rush problem is to create it in simulation a few times over and over, so people kind of know how to deal with it. You know, it's sort of like Pilots, you know, they'll simulate an emergency scenario, and then when it really happens in real life, hopefully it never does. They're kind of ready for, you know, I've done this before. They don't freak out about it. Right, Exactly. Is that the thing?

There are actually two elements to it, yes. And what you said is definitely a big part of it. The other part of it is being trained in techniques that were actually have been tested under an adrenal rush, because unfortunately, much of what's taught today requires either too many steps where, again, I mentioned the cognitive thinking where we don't have access to it, we actually go into what's sometimes called a frog brain, a reptilian brain, where under. Under a lot of stress, where we just don't have access to our normal reasoning power. And when we also, you couple that with loss of fine motor coordination, and many times there's a certain amount of auditory exclusion. You don't hear much or you don't hear anything at all if the heartbeat gets high enough. You know, when you put these all together, a lot of the traditional training just doesn't work. So, you know, training that is designed specifically and tested under, you know, adrenal rush situations is going to work best.

Okay, so how do you create the adrenal rush in simulation then? Because you're not really scared in simulation, probably.

Well, you know, something doesn't sound like it would be, but if somebody gets in your face and starts yelling, screaming, cursing, threatening, it's amazing what happens to you. Even though you know that the situation is you're in a controlled environment.

Right.

But even though you know that it still has the effect on you that you raising the heartbeat and getting the adrenal rush going. Now, it's possible, you know, most likely that it's not at the same intensity it would be if it were a real situation, but it's definitely high enough that the participants in a program like this can definitely feel it beyond a doubt. Many of them even time. Many times even recall situations that bad situations in their life and break down and even some people. We've seen people break down and cry and everything when, when this happens. So it's very intense.

It's kind of like in the army, you know, they do. They do boot camp and, and the drill sergeant is, you know, screaming at you and yelling at you and, you know, maybe that's sort of that type of simulation almost, huh?

It could very well be. I mean, I was in the service years back and they definitely do that. But, you know, when Somebody when it's directed at you and it's right in your face, you know, you feel it. And I've demonstrated this to people over and over again. Just, you know, just saying, just, you know, I'm not gonna touch you, but just I want you to feel what it feels like. And then get in their face and start threatening and yelling and screaming and right away their heart starts to race and their insides start to squirm and it just happens. So, you know, of course we're trained specifically on how to elicit this adrenal rush. And you know, when you couple that together with the body armor, it's a very empowering type of situation and a great learning. The other thing that tends to happen from it is what you learn and what you experience under high adrenal situations tends to be remembered. Again, when that reoccurs. I'll just give you some examples. One of the things that we do when we do this type of training is we have a coach. So the coach is kind of with the student who's participating and kind of behind them and kind of telling them, okay, you know, put your hands up and tell this person to back off and to practice some of the spatial things and get ready and get prepared. And then when they attack actually comes, they're actually going to yell out and call out what, what they want them to do, whether it be a palm heel strike or knee strike or something to that effect. But the amazing thing is, is that people, you know, a lot of people have taken this type of training over the years. Just from the lower average, there's a number of these people have been attacked on the street, you know, years down the road. But over and over again people come back and say, you know, I had flashbacks to the day we did the training. I could actually, some of them actually say, I could actually hear the coach with me telling me what to do. And sometimes that training was years prior. So again, it's very empowering and it does reach a part of our, part of our brain that we don't normally use on a daily basis, but it's still entrenched there and it's still developed there. And we also found that the more times that type of training is repeated, like you mentioned before, the more solidly it's locked in.

Yeah, okay, good point. So we're going to get into some specifics as to real how to's during this interview of what people can really do to defend themselves. But I wanted sort of to set that up, Mike. Over the years, I'VE taken judo, Aikido, karate. What is the best martial art, if there is one. You know, the thing I like about your system is it pulls from many and it's sort of an eclectic approach. But can you pick a best one or is that not possible?

You know something, in my opinion, most of the traditional arts, the way they're taught traditionally, are not in themselves the best way to defend yourself. But let me simplify it a little bit. The throwing arts, the grappling arts, the arts that require manipulation of wrists and joints and things like that, are probably the most difficult to pull off under an adrenal rush. And if you think about it, I mean, most of those require a number of different movements. Number one, again, so you're now starting to get into the area of your minimized cognitive thinking. And secondly, and very importantly is that you're talking about fine motor coordination, which just goes away. I mean, you just lose that under this adrenal rush. So, you know, a lot of the keto type movements where you're locking the wrists and the fingers and the joints, you know, a lot of that you just can't, can't access. And the other thing that tends to happen, and this is an aside from the, from the adrenal rush with a lot of those type of arts, there are a lot of variables. As an example, you go to throw somebody with a judo throw. I mean, you could be throwing somebody who's, for example, 6, 3 and 160 pounds, or that you also might be against somebody who is 5 foot 2 and 250 pounds. It's a whole different situation. One thing, if you're throwing somebody approximately your own weight and height, when you start working against somebody that's extremely tall or extremely short and heavy, it's a whole different ball game. So there's a lot of variables that come into play when you deal with joint manipulation. Everybody reacts differently to that. You know, some people the slightest movement of their wrist and they're on the ground. Other people, because of the flexibility that they have, and their tendons are very stretched, they don't feel anything. So you're dealing with a lot of variables. And in my mind, what self defense needs to be is to give you the very best chance to stack the odds in your favor. And so to summarize, you know, I believe that the striking arts are the most effective for the average person in protecting themselves.

So what are the striking arts then?

Well, these could be, you know, for example, like karate or Taekwondo, although Taekwondo is mostly kicking and that's another thing, you know, as far as kicking is concerned, kicking is really overrated. In real fights, it's not used nearly as much as you would think. And that's mainly because real attacks and real, real self defense situations rarely end up in a sparring kind of situation where two people are standing there moving around. It usually is, you know, it's a rush, it's a quick, the whole thing's over in 20 or 30 seconds. So it's, it's, you know, there's a lot of hands and elbows, knees, heads, you know, these, these are the kinds of things that, that work. And a lot of the long range stuff never, never gets a chance to even happen in a real fight.

So what is that list of the striking arts then?

Well, arts like a lot of the Chinese kung fu arts use a lot of hand techniques. Wen Chun has one example. Jeet Kune do, which was popularized and actually created by Bruce Lee is also a good artist for that kind of thing. You know, certain karate and you know, and kenpo arts use a lot of hand techniques. So, you know, elements of those I think work. But the real key is simplicity.

Yeah.

Remember, under that adrenal rush, you're not going to be able to sequence more than a couple of things at once.

Right, right. Because your mind will be very limited. Yeah.

And things that require like I say, multiple moves and tricky body positions and different things, you know, they just really just, you know, it's been our experience, you know, with this over the years, it just, they just don't work. You just can't get them to work.

Yeah, that's, that's what I like about your approach. It's very practical, you know, so it's, it's real, it's street stuff. I mean, Your website is streetself defense.com so you know, it lives up to its name. Talk to us about male on female type situations. What are the differences for women defending themselves versus men?

Well, let's face it, you know, women are at a major disadvantage because they just don't have the strength, especially the upper body strength that men have. So in the first place, one of the very, very best things a woman can learn is to use good to learn what we call verbal and spatial techniques. Because over and over again, most attacks don't start with someone jumping out in the bushes or you know, hiding behind a door. Although some do most of the time. There is what the, what the criminals like to call the interview. They want to size up the person that they're going after. They Want to find out how much resistance there's going to be if the person's going to be giving easy prey what they call free lunch or is it going to be a difficult situation?

I love how you call that the interview.

Well, you know, that's really what happens. I mean, they'll, they'll, you know, it could be threatening, it could be series of questions. You know, women should rely first. The very, very first thing that they should rely on is their gut feeling. You know, women are more in tune intuition typically than men. Yeah, intuition than men are. And if it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't right. And a lot of situations could be avoided right from the get go if they follow and you know, follow that gut feeling, follow that intuition. And if it doesn't feel right, it may not be right. So don't take the chance, don't test it out, don't go that way, you know. You know, many times, you know, read stories about women who just to try to be polite and to try not to make, you know, make noise or to be, you know, to put themselves where they feel uncomfortable will, you know, allow a certain, certain liberties perhaps with someone and then, you know, the next step is a rape or an attack or something to that effect. And so, you know, using the gut feeling, learning to what we call verbal defenses and spatial defenses, where the hands come in what we call an assertive position. And basically that's just standing with one leg slightly in front of the other, not in a fighting position, but just. And both hands up and open and facing the person. So it's kind of like, no, back off. That's the body language we want. Body language is very, very powerful. I mean, there's different studies on this, but body language and communication is really more important than what's said. So what we do is we try to teach our students in both male and female, but particularly with the females, to be congruent in their body language, their tone of voice, their eye contact. And again, criminals that have been interviewed from prison that were somewhat reformed but in prison and talked about attacks and different things that they've done, whether it be to rob or to rape or to whatever it was, they say it over and over again, look, we don't want to go back to jail. We don't want to get. We don't want to be arrested. We want to, we want it to be easy. We want to pick the right victim. So it's easy. So, you know, one of the best things, the best advice you can give a Woman is to, you know, don't make yourself an easy target. And many times just getting those hands up and just, you know, with bad strong voice and good verbal commands to back off and get away, they realize that it's not going to. This may not be an easy thing. So, you know, many times that's enough. It's not always. But what it does as well is it puts the person that's on a defensive. It gets their adrenal system going, it gets them ready to again, as you said, fight a flight. It might be fight, but obviously a woman has a big disadvantage in strength, especially upper body strength. So she needs to choose good targets like the eyes and the throat, perhaps the nose, the groin, those kind of things where a good strike there can at least slow somebody up and maybe just give them enough time to get away.

What do you think about people carrying pepper spray, mace, things like that?

Well, that's an interesting question because these are great. These things are great. The problem with most of these is that you just don't have them ready and available. You know, women sometimes will carry a pepper spray in their pocketbook or somewhere in their car, but you think about being under an adrenal rush where you have no fine motor coordination and you know, getting this thing out, getting it open, getting the valves set up and being able to use it. Most of the time there's no time to do that. And it's the same thing even with some of the things that they have that you attach to keychains and you know, some of these different self defense weapons that are sold, you know, if they're ready and available and the woman's prepared, yeah, they're great. But unfortunately most people never get a chance to use them because everything happens so quickly and again they're fumbling around and this big adrenal rush is going. So conceptually it's a great idea, but in practical application it's not. They don't work all that well.

So the thing you always have with you is yourself.

You do. But the other thing that we teach, in fact we have actually have an entire DVD on this. It's called Extraordinary Impact. What we teach is being able to take every day anything in your hand, anything that you can get a hold of as a weapon of self defense. See, one of the problems with the ready made weapons, so to speak, is they look like a weapon. I mean, if somebody's holding a pepper spray in front of you, you know what it is. You know, it's some sort of a pep spray mace type device. If somebody has a, you know, a short bladed knife or a little club or anything in their hand like that, especially if they're holding it like a, you know, like a club or like, I mean, it's very, very obvious what it is. And one of the important things of self defense is surprise. You know, it's a great element. If you've got the element of surprise on your side, it can really help. So basically what we teach is that someone just as an example, so let's say that they have a cell phone in their hand or a set of keys, or a pen or a comb or a brush or you know, a cup or almost anything that you can think of. We teach them how to use them as a devastating weapon of self defense. But it comes from a place that the way it's held and the way it's positioned so it doesn't look like it's even a weapon. And before you know it, it's in somebody's eyes or throat. And again, just give someone enough time to escape.

What is your opinion of some of the other self defense weapons, you know, see advertised? Is it pretty much just know how to use your body and know how to use anything around you as a weapon? I mean, what you just said, or are there some things that are worth having or it's just a matter of what you were mentioning before, which you're just not going to have it ready when you need it. The, you know, likelihood is Murphy's law. Right.

It's, you know, the exception to that, Jason, is if you, you know, if you know that you're going to be traveling on a consistent basis in, in an area that may not be the safest area. Let me just give you an example. Let's say that someone worked in an office building and at times they know that they're going to be working late at night and they know at times they need that every day they've got to go into a parking garage or walk into a dark parking lot every single night.

Then they have it ready before they go.

They have it ready? Yeah. Before they leave the building. It's in their hand and it's ready. Then it's useful and it's effective. But just to have it, carry it and think you're going to be able to have it ready to use, by the time you even try to do it, it's too late.

Yeah. So tell us a little bit about some moves, give us some ideas. You alluded to that earlier. You talked about the sort of vulnerable spots I Know, the human body has a lot of different weak spots and deadly sort of spots. Tell us about some moves and examples.

Well, one of the things that we teach when you're at a little bit of a distance is a groin kick. And we teach it a little different than a traditional martial arts kick. But this kick would be done if you could picture the legs as being a V or a guiding point to guide the kick up and under into the groin as opposed to try to pinpoint the groin with a kick. Again, your accuracy is way off, typically under adrenal rush, but using the legs themselves to guide the kick up and into the groin on the bottom. So you're actually kicking with the top part of the foot or the shin depending on the distance from you. If they were a little closer, then it would be the knee, it would be the knee up into the groin. And that is a really effective tool and something that should definitely be used in close range. We also are a big advocate of using elbow strikes. Elbows are very, very powerful, a lot more powerful than a fist. And they're very, you know, it's a big bone, it's hard and it's very, very powerful and close. I think anybody can relate to that if they have kids or they've ever watched or, you know, just anything. With kids, almost invariably at some point in time they get hit with an elbow from a 2 year old in the face and it hurts and it makes you move and back away. Can you imagine, you know, even, you know, even a 110 pound woman winding up and throwing a strong El at somebody's face or eye or jaw or neck? It can be very effective. Another thing that we recommend teaching is a palm heel strike. Palm heel strike is using the heel or the lower section of the palm with the fingers pointing up. And that strike can be directed either at the jaw, the nose or even the forehead. Could be in an excellent area. We teach something and people talk about eye strikes and ice strikes could be really awesome. You can totally stop an attacker with a good eye strike. The problem is again, you're dealing with the accuracy, even a slight movement of their head and you miss the ice strike and your fingers hit the forehead or the cheek and it's not going to do very much. It's not going to do anything really to them. It's not going to stop them at all. But I teach something called what we call a palm eye, which we're actually throwing a palm strike, but we're tilting the hand forward with the fingers open. So what we're trying to do is we'd like to get the ice strike in. But if the ice strike doesn't hit, the palm still hits the target. So it's kind of a combination strike. And it's really effective because it doesn't have to be accurate. And if any one of the fingers even catches the eye, it could end the whole thing right there very quickly. We also teach something we call a chakra technique. It has some technical names, but basically it's using both palms. Let's just say, for example, someone came up and tried to choke or grab you from the front in some way, taking both palms with the hands up high and striking straight downward and inward simultaneously. And if you can lean into it a little bit and drive that head, snap that head back, what it does is it actually rocks the brain in the cranial cavity. And although it may not knock the person out, and many times it does, it shocks them for a couple seconds. So it sort of puts them a little, if you will, on Queer street for a second or two. And it gives either one an opportunity to escape or to follow up with some elbows or knee kicks or perhaps even headbutts, where, you know, using the top part of your head on the hairline into the nose area.

Right, right. You know, what's interesting about the choking move, Mike, is that whenever you see a movie, it's always the same sort of thing. The attacker grabs someone's neck, starts choking them, and then what they do is they go grab their hands to get them off their neck, when really that's not what they should do. Right. They should be. They should be doing an offensive move that will knock them in the nose or in the head or the groin or whatever. Right.

Well, you're 100% right. It is a natural body reaction to reach for the hands on something, to reach for the person's hands when someone's choking you. That's why, you know, you definitely the training and realize that you need to be aggressive and to attack. And, you know, obviously, if you place your fingers on their face with the thumbs alongside the nose and drove the thumb straight back into the eyes, that's probably going to get them to release pretty quick from a chokehold.

Yeah. Especially if you got some fingernails there. That's.

But even without them, I mean, it doesn't take much. I mean, just the slightest pressure on the eyes and it's really painful. And our natural reaction to that is certain strikes cause a natural body reaction. So if you strike somebody in the eyes, it is a reflex Action to pull back and to put their hands up to their face and eyes.

Right. So now I want to ask you, though, about this choking, because I think that's sort of an important one. The other problem there that women might face is they may have a shorter reach than the attacker, Right. So the attacker could be choking them, but they can't reach the attacker's head or eyes to do an offensive move, right?

That is correct.

What do they do then? They should look at leg.

We do teach what we call a stripping technique where you actually reach both hands, where your fingers are actually touching the palms around the thumb area of their attacker on both hands. So you're reaching up with both hands. But to make it work, I mean, that's not going to work in a. Because you're working to a certain extent, strength against strength. And, you know, a woman, again, typically, is not going to be as strong as a man, and that isn't going to work. But what we teach is to simultaneously bring up a sweeping kick. So either the knee or the shin hits the groin as you go to strip. So then it takes the focus off of the choke and onto the pain of the attack. But most of the time, most of the time, unless when you see a real choke being done, and most of the time the elbows are bent, their arms aren't really straight out where the person can't reach. In almost every case, you can reach the face or eyes. But you're right, if it couldn't, a groin strike is going to bring the head forward again. That's a body reflex. If you hit the money in the groin, their head's coming down. It's just how it is, and it's reflexive. It's not even something that you think about or happens to most people. It happens to just about everybody, just about every time. And those are the kind of odds you're looking for. As I said before, you want to put yourself in the best position, give yourself the best odds to escape an attack. You want to rely on things that are almost sure to happen every time. And that would be one.

Okay, all right, good point. One more thing on the neck. You know, you always see this sort of thing, and it's common in movies, but could happen in real life. Certainly someone comes up behind you and starts choking you, you know, what do you do about that? Especially a woman who's smaller. The man is probably taller than she is. And that's a tough one, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. But the very, very best first. And again, one of the things that you want to try to do when you're attacked is to break the focus. So, again, if someone's grabbing and choking from behind, their focus is on their hands and choking that throat. So with a slight twist of the body, a slap to the groin can be very effective. And, you know, men know that it doesn't take an awful lot. It doesn't take an awful lot to get the focus off of whatever they're doing onto the pain of that groin strike. You know, we teach a quick strike to the groin, and then there's actually a number of different ways that you can actually release the hold. And one of them is a stripping technique that we talked about from the front. Another one is where you twist your body to the side as you strike the groin and reach up between their arms, shoot your arm between there and shoot it straight forward towards the front. And that uses your. Actually your shoulder and back to break the hold on one side. And you really can't choke if you don't have pressure on both sides. You need pressure on both sides to affect the choke. And then, of course, we follow up with elbow strikes and palms and knees and so on from there. And, you know, I'm trying to give you a visual effect on that, Jason. That's probably about the best I can do.

Right, right.

Without seeing it.

Sure. I know it's not. We're not watching one of your DVDs right now, but we're doing the best we can on audio.

And you know something, another technique that can really work, believe it or not, it's as simple as just lifting the foot up and stomping down with everything you got with your heel on their instep. You know, the bones of the instep are fairly small. Those metatarsal bones are pretty small and they're arched. And with, you know, a good, strong, hard stomp, many times those bones can be broken. And if not, at least it's very painful. So, again, it's a distraction if nothing else, and enables you to go to the next step to release and escape. And that's what we. I mean, primarily, especially especially with women, is it's to get out of there. It's not try to. It's not trying to beat the guy, it's try to immobilize him temporarily distract him temporarily, and just go, you know, just get out of there as quickly as you can.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, anything you'd like to say in closing, just to kind of wrap this up, and we'll give your website one more time too.

Well, you know, we do, we do have a general DVD that can be used for men or women. It's actually, we usually sell it in a set and that's our street Self Defense 101 series. You know, someone can, someone can reach that by going to www. Learn Self Defense. So it's Learn Self defense with hyphens in between dot com. We also have our women's self defense DVD which is specifically for women. And that one is womens-self defense dot com and also I'll give you one more website if I can, Jason. And this is a, this is a general website that has all of our DVDs on it, training manuals, but it also has a lot of articles and so on for self defense. And they could send us, you know, also register for our free newsletter there. And that one is www.self defense.

So it's self defense videos with hyphens in between. And they can go on that on that website. And we have all our, all our products. We have a lot of articles, a lot of good resources for self defense.

Excellent. Well, Mike Pace, thanks so much for joining us on the show today and everybody listening. This is a very important topic and get familiar with it before you ever need it because inevitably there will be a situation that will rise at some point in life and you need to know this good information. Mike, thank you very much.

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