HS 350 - The Relationship Building Skills Every Leader Needs Today with Michael Gelb

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Welcome to the Holistic Survival show with Jason Hartman. The economic storm brewing around the world is set to spill into all aspects of our lives. Are you prepared? Where are you going to turn for the critical life skills necessary to survive and prosper? The Holistic Survival show is your family's insurance for a better life. Jason will teach you to think independently, to understand threats and how to create the ultimate action plan. Sudden change or worst case scenario, you'll be ready. Welcome to Holistic Survival, your key resource for protecting the people, places and profits you care about in uncertain times. Ladies and gentlemen, your host, Jason Hartman.

Welcome to the show. This is Jason Hartman, your host and every 10th episode we do something kind of special, kind of different. What we do is we go off topic. So regardless of which show it is on the Hartman Media Network, whether it be one of the financial shows, economics, real estate, investing, travel, longevity, all of the other topics that we have, every 10th episode we go off topic and we explore something of general interest, something something of general life, success, value. And so many of our listeners around the world in 164 countries have absolutely loved our 10th episode shows. So that's what we're going to do today. And let's go ahead and get to our guest with a special 10th episode show. And of course, on the next episode, we'll be back to our regular programming. Here we go. It's my pleasure to welcome Michael Gelb to the show. He is a very well known author. He has sold lots and lots of books over the years on some great topics and we'll dive into that in a moment. He's founder and president of the High Performance Learning Center. He's a number one New York Times best selling author of how to Think Like Leonardo Da Vinci, Seven Steps to Genius Every Day. And the new book, the Art of Seven Relationship Building Skills Every Leader needs now. Michael, welcome. How are you?

I'm fabulous. Thank you so much.

Yeah, it's good to have you. You are quite an author, I must say. Congratulations on your success. Your Da Vinci book, you've got two with da Vinci titles, I believe. How to Think Like Leonardo sold over 700,000 copies and I think it's in like 25 languages or something.

That is correct.

Wow.

And it's still rocking every day. We love it. Thank you. Almost 20 years old.

Yeah. Almost 20 years old too. Yeah. Congratulations. And your newest book is kind of a deep look At Connection. You know, we live in a world, Michael, that is so, in a way, it's very connected. And here's the kind of absurdity of today's life. Right? I'm sure you're gonna have a comment on this. We're all connected than ever with social media, the Internet, etc. But we're all more disconnected and really isolated. You know, all of these tools are isolating tools in a lot of ways. The connections have become, I would argue, much more shallow than they used to be. Kind of just give us a commentary on what's going on here and then let's talk about your seven relationship building skills.

Yes, you just went right to the heart of why I wrote the Art of Connection. And it is precisely because although we're electronically linked and we have access to all of the world's knowledge and information, we're also overwhelmed by a massive tsunami of spam. I don't know if you saw the Onion headline a while ago that said lowest common denominator plummets. And kids are growing up learning their conversation skills from Alexa and Siri. So there is a pandemic of superficiality, of isolation. And besides being soul destroying and weakening of one's health and wellness and happiness, it also undercuts one's ability to be a leader and to actually be really successful and fulfilled. My thesis is that these abilities, the ability to connect with people face to face, one on one, to be really empathic, is going to become more and more valuable every year as we become more addicted to various devices. So I wrote this book. I actually have an unofficial nephew, you, the son of one of my dear friends. And I kind of act as his mentor. He's 22, he's super savvy, master of the Internet, master of social media. He even started at age 21, a search engine optimization company that he's already sold. Super savvy, smart kid. I wrote this book for him so that he can take that amazing super brain and sophistication electronically and enrich and deepen his soul and have fulfilling, happy relationships and be really good as a leader in the businesses that I know he's going to create in years to come.

Okay, so take us through some of these steps. I mean, certainly books on connection on, you know, how to, how to reach out to people, how to have deeper meaning and relationships, that has been done, but you've broken some new ground here. What are some of the specific steps.

Just before we get to those two? I know you were enthusiastic about how to think like Leonardo da Vinci, yes. And that's mostly what I am known for. I wrote how to Think Like Leonardo da Vinci, as you mentioned, 19 years ago. And I wrote another book called Innovate Like Edison, which I co authored with Thomas Edison's great, great, great grandniece. And I'm known primarily for my work helping entrepreneurs, helping companies be more creative, be more innovative. But if you really want to be creative, if you really want to be innovative, what it comes down to is can you get people to buy into your idea? How do you build a relationships that will allow you to get your innovation made, done, produced? So these seven relationship building skills are the core skills that I've found help my clients be successful in making their creative ideas come true. And the first one is to embrace humility. And this is, when I say humility too, I don't mean, you know, false humility. It doesn't mean not being really confident. There's a surprising paradox here that true confidence is predicated on humility because you learn to set aside your own ego and your own habits and really tune in to what's happening with another person or a group of people. This is the core secret of really great listening, of really understanding other people. Moreover, most communications result in misunderstanding. Most people don't get their message across effectively. Most people aren't as good as listening as they think they are. You know, it's a lot like driving. Everybody thinks they're way above average and it can't be true. So that's why humility comes first. If you have that humility, you'll have curiosity. If you have curiosity, then you'll be on the path to building much richer, more effective relationships.

Yeah, no question about that. So being curious, and I would say active listening would definitely be part of that. Right? Not just hearing. There's a big difference between hearing someone and actually listening to them. Right. And drawing them out in the conversation and asking for points of clarification and so forth.

Right, exactly, exactly. And doing so with an attitude of openness and follow through. So instead of assuming, oh, I understood what you meant, I assume maybe I didn't get it. So I, I'm curious and I want to know. And you, you sense my curiosity and then you sense, oh, this person's actually really interested in what I'm saying rather than just quickly assuming that they, they' and they're off on to some other tangent.

Michael, what's a glow worm? When you talk about glow, how do you be a glow worm? That's number two, one of my Favorite.

Quotes from Winston Churchill, who's just an example of one of the great leaders in all of human history. And he said, we are all worms, but I do believe that I am a glow worm. So it turns out that we now know that emotions are contagious, for better or for worse. Someone like Winston Churchill spread the contagion of hope, of courage, of strength, of resilience, and saved a nation and probably saved Western civilization. We also know that negativity, meanness, cruelty, unkindness, cynicism are also contagious and that they spread an environment in a workplace that isn't just unpleasant, it's actually expensive. There's a lot of research now, Professor Christine Porath, Professor Jane Dutton, many others, showing that when leaders are abusive or obnoxious, it's like the old Three Stooges, you know, Mo hits Larry, Larry hits Curly, Curly goes woo, woo, woo, woo. So a lot of bosses, unfortunately, are too much like Mo, and you really serve when you're a leader. Your emotions are contagious, your attitudes are contagious, for better or for worse, and they magnify more than you're aware. So learning to be really impeccable about the emotions that you're spreading is one of the secrets of creating a marvelous workplace. And the implications for your family are. Should be obvious as well.

Do you have anything to say about, like I read the book years ago and I've got the author coming up on a show. He's written several books, but one of them is called the no Rule. Okay. And you know, he, he talks a lot about, you know, the late Steve Jobs in there. Right. And, and Steve Jobs would be the antithesis of what you're saying, obviously. Right. Hate to speak ill of the dead. I mean, Steve Jobs is obviously brilliant, but, you know, he was known for being a really guy. I mean, you know, really just intractable and ego maniacal and so forth. Can you put that in some context? Was, you know, see, the question nobody ever asked in life, Michael, and this is, this is a huge problem with human thinking, and I talk about it all the time, is that you can't hear the dogs that don't bark. So, you know, we look at Steve Jobs and we think, oh, what a successful guy. Right. But, you know, the question we never ask is how much more successful would he have been if he was just as brilliant but a little more pleasant. Right.

So. So no, it's really wonderful that you bring that up and frame it in that way. I know you're talking about Bob Sutton. I actually Interviewed him for this chapter, and I asked him the very tough question that many people are asking, and they ask about somebody like Steve Jobs. Sometimes it seems like holes are really successful. How do you explain that?

Right.

And even though the research suggests that they'd be more successful if they weren't that way and that they do untold harm on so many levels to so many people. Sutton. Actually, here's a quote from Sutton in my book. He says, even though there are occasions when being an all helps people and companies win, my view is if you're a winner and an, you're still an. And I don't want to be around you. And I agree with. I agree with Sutton big time. So the emphasis on success at the expense of the environment around you, both literally and figuratively, is, I think, a toxic and ignorant attitude. We now know it's a lot of studies. My good buddy Raj Sisodia wrote the book Firms of Endearment. We now know you'll do better financially, you'll be more successful in business if you treat all stakeholders with respect, with care, with dignity. That orientation, that attitude is also probably more important now than ever before.

Yeah, no question. Okay, good stuff. Let's move on, though. Let's cover. I want to make sure we can sort of hit on at least a quick summary of all of your points here. Did we cover the glow worm?

We got the essence of it. Yeah. There's a lot more to it.

All right, what's up next? Go for it.

The next one is achieve the three liberations. And these are ways of liberating yourself so that you really are free from the habitual tendencies. The mindlessness. People talk about mindfulness, but we need to talk a lot about mindlessness because there's a lot of it going around today. And one way that manifests is people's tendency to look at everything from the perspective of what they like or they don't like. This is so limiting. It's driven by an unconscious desire to move towards things that we think will promote our survival and move away from things that we think might compromise our survival. And so, obviously, I'm all in favor of survival, but if you're trying to lead an organization, if you're trying to accomplish something great, if you're trying to inspire and uplift people, then if you communicate with them based solely on a constant evaluation of whether you like things or don't like things, you're tending not to see what's really happening. You're out of touch with reality. So it's okay to like things. I mean, I like plenty of things and I dislike lots of things. But the key is to liberate yourself from that being your default setting and the filter through which you look at everything. Similarly, the second liberation is to liberate yourself from taking everything personally. It's just not about.

There's a lot of people that just want to find a reason to be offended nowadays.

It just get over it. I mean, but it's just also. It's just. It really isn't about you. I mean, this is. It's narcissism.

The concept, the concept of being offended by everything is. It's narcissism. Narcissistic. But it's also selfish. It's like this self centered, very childlike. You know, when if you do research and look at, you know, all the psychology of kids and so forth. Right. Kids are extremely selfish. Right. And as we grow older, we become hopefully less selfish. Right. They think that it's all about them and that's obviously survival mechanism. Right. They've got to be that way or they'd probably perish to be in an adult body and still have these like childlike, sort of, I'm the center of the world belief systems are just. We gotta outgrow that. Right.

Big time. Big time. And it's easy to spot this in other people. But my book really drives you to look at this in yourself.

I mean, it's hardest to look in the mirror.

And I share some examples of where, you know, I catch myself doing this and how much work it really takes to free yourself when you react to something on a personal level. So I'm serious about these as liberations. And the third one is to liberate yourself from the tendency to blame and complain, which wastes a huge amount of energy and is just the death of responsibility and energy and aliveness and genuine power.

Those three liberations relate, especially those last two. So what are the three again? Just name them really quickly.

Sure. Freedom from like and dislike. Freedom from taking things personally. And freedom from whining, blaming and complaining.

Yeah, good stuff, good stuff. Okay. And after the three liberations, then what.

Next is Transcend fixations. Transcend fixations. And what that means is we all have certain predispositions. They can be measured and understood by various personalities. Inventories. My clients are often exposed to these in the workplace. The Myers Briggs, the Enneagram, which is one of my favorites. The Wilson learning model. What's your type? Learn about it and then learn to be free from it. Learn to transcend whatever Your habitual programming is. It's the next step after the fundamental three liberations. It's okay now, really, simply, if you're an introvert, if you tend to be quieter and keep your own counsel and not learn how to speak up, well, guess what? You're going to have to learn how to do. And if you are more assertive and the first to speak up, you need to do the opposite. You need to transcend your habitual fixation.

And sit back and listen if you're that person, if you're the extrovert, right?

Yeah, big time. So learn to do the opposite.

Let me make a comment on this, and I think you'll be interested in this, Michael. I have noticed this for many years now, and this is a kind of a pretty dangerous concept about today's world. I think that all of us are just becoming more like ourselves. So let's take the one example would be the political arena, right? And you know, many, many will argue, although it's not really a new thing. Look at the country's been divided many times throughout history, okay? This is not like a new, new thing. You know, people throughout the world and every country, there's been divisiveness, right? But people would also argue that, you know, today it's really bad. And I don't know if it's worse than it was at other times, but that's not the point. The point is that ever since the Internet advertisers, and I would argue that this started with a company called DoubleClick in the late 90s, right? Since they started tailoring ads and content to us, and we all have this big data profile in our life, and we've all noticed it, we'll go and shop for something online, and then the ads follow us around. You still want a new pair of shoes, you know, blah, blah, blah. And what is happening here is that now that we can all tailor our news and the products we like and the stores we like and, you know, our consumer profiles, you know, we either tailor them or they're tailored for us by other people, by big data, right? We just keep becoming more like ourselves. And I would argue that it is really necessary for us to escape ourselves. I would argue that a little bit of escapism is actually a positive thing because it helps us see another side of things. You know, if you're rich and you live in a suburb, you know, change your driving pattern and drive through a slum, okay? Or the opposite, you know, if you want to be rich, I mean, it's definitely A good visualization exercise to go and hang around rich people. If you want to become rich and you're not that, that's sort of a different concept. But we got to get out of our own head once in a while, not always. You know, we need to know who we are obviously. Right. But we are definitely bombarded with becoming more like ourselves today, in today's world. Would you agree with that?

I do agree with that and I think it's extremely dangerous. This is brain hacking. We have people railed against the tobacco companies for getting people addicted to nicotine and that just took over your lungs and gave you emphysema. Or they rail against big Sugar for making you think that it's okay to have sugary drinks and okay, you got obese and you've got diabetes, but now forget. It's not just your pancreas and it's not just your lungs. They're going after your brain, your whole nervous system by seducing you. It comes back to the click of what you like and following what you like. And if you're completely like driven, you want things that are just like your habitual self. And the tragic thing is that your habitual automatic, pre programmed self has almost nothing to do with your true self. Great leaders are people who reach the true self of others and of themselves. People who have enlivening rich, beautiful, fulfilling, satisfying, exciting, creative relationships aren't just responding in a robotic, hypnotized, automatic brain hacked way to their world. So absolutely this is about freedom. It's another way of thinking about that's what how to think like Leonardo da Vinci is really all about. And that's what this book is really all about. Just applying it more specifically to how it manifests in your relationship with yourself and other people.

Yeah, yeah, good points. You know, we're all like people just, they keep reading the same things, they keep having the same conversations. You know, they might argue that they're into diversity because they have a couple friends of different colors and genders, but they all think the same. There's no diversity there. I mean, you know, like it's diversity of thought is the most important type of diversity, you know, so. Yeah, yeah, good stuff. Okay, what's next then?

We have balance, energy exchange. This is essentially what every relationship is all about. It's what's the flow of energy between the parties in the relationship and is it it abundant and fulfilling for all that's a positive? You know this, you, you walk into a business, you go into a company and you can tell Right away about the quality of leadership by the energy in the place. When there's positive energy, when people greet you, when they're engaging, when they care.

Yeah, right.

It's totally contagious. And the opposite is also true. We all know that feeling of walking into a store and nobody's there to greet you and you're not going to get any help or rest. I'm very good. If I spot a restaurant that's like that, I just. I cancel it right away. I go somewhere else. It's not what I'm interested in because I want that feeling. Go ahead.

That environment is contagious. The emote, like you said earlier. The emotions are very contagious. There's no question about that. Yeah, the balance, energy exchange. That's good. So in other words, don't be all the hyper glad hander person when the other person's not that way. Like, is it really nlp? Is it kind of the matching and mirroring concept? Is that what you're saying?

Well, it's funny because I taught mind mapping to one of the founders of nlp many, many years ago. We did some exchanges. I learned a bunch of nlp and NLP is a very useful tool. But this is more nvc. Nonviolent communication. The work of Marshall Rosenberg.

Nonviolent communication.

I go into it in quite a lot of depth in the book. A guy was a genius and he figured out how can take the violence out of our language. I mean, there's a lot. I mean, not violence like I'm hitting you in the face directly, but when I tell you what you should do or I speak to you in evaluative terms or I talk to you in a way that is dismissive or demeaning or objectifying. He was making a point by being strong in his language, by saying it's a kind of violence. Just like Sutton says, don't be an. These books register because they use strong language to get our attention. But the real underlying message is look at how the balance of relationship energy is in your life. And the happiest relationships at work and at home are ones in which we are focused on giving first. But we can only sustain that if we are interacting with people who are also focused on giving first. So how do you redress the balance when someone is taking, taking, taking, and you're giving, giving, giving. Well, that's how you have to learn how to give feedback in a really constructive way. How to say no in a really positive way, how to set expectations in a very careful way. So that's all. That's all in the balanced energy exchange chapter of the book.

Okay, we are running out of time here. We got two more points you need to make real quickly. And let's give out your website. Tell people they can find out more about you and all your great books. But be a rare listener. Maybe we kind of touched on that earlier with the active listening and then turn friction into momentum.

Yes, that's so Friction into Momentum is all about a creative approach to conflict. And the big message here is learn to separate the idea of a contest where there's a winner and a loser from a conflict where we need to use creativity to figure out how to meet people's needs.

I love the way Dennis Waitley put that years ago. I remember he used to say, there is no such thing as winning an argument. There is only winning an agreement. So well said, Dennis.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's very, very good. Good stuff. Well, Michael, very enlightening. Give out your website. Tell people where they can find out more.

Sure. It's michaelgelb.com that's G E L B.

Michaelgelb.Com michaelgelb.com and just to wrap that up, embrace humility, be a glow worm, achieve the three liberations, transcend fixations, balance energy, exchange, be a rare listener. And rare is an acronym. I know you didn't have time to go into that, but they can find it in the book and turn friction into momentum. Michael, thank you for joining us today.

My pleasure. Thank you.

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