HS 371 - FBF - Wetiko: The Greatest Epidemic Sickness Known to Humanity with Paul Levy

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My pleasure to welcome Paul Levy to the show. He is the author of the Greatest Epidemic Sickness Known to humanity and this book has got the forward by Katharine Austin Fitz who was on a prior episode and I'm a big fan of her work and it's great to have Paul here coming to us today from Portland, Oregon. Paul, how are you?

Oh I am, I am great. I am really excited to be here. So thank you very much for having me.

Well, the pleasure is all mine now you've got an amazing, amazing story here about what has happened to you and I think all of the listeners can really learn from it.

Can't they, yeah, I imagine that maybe some have had similar experiences. And just in the real essence, I had this life transforming spiritual awakening in 1981 that almost killed me. And it got me thrown in mental hospitals and told that I was going to bethat I had a psychotic break from reality and I had a mental illness and I was going to have this mental illness for the rest of my life. And it was super clear from my point of view inside myself that I was having a spiritual awakening. And I was really fortunate to be able to get through that and to quickly extricate myself from the psychiatric establishment. But you know, we're talking maybe four or five times over the course of that next year between 81 and 82, I was thrown in mental hospitals and medicated, diagnosed. And my parents bought in because in their world, you know, people who are, who are doctors are authority figures and they very tragically bought in to the diagnoses and passed away convinced that their only child is mentally ill. And so, you know, there was a tragic aspect to it, but I just, over the course of time I was able to frame it as, oh, it's part of this is like this like sort of like an initiation that I was going through and it was actually showing something to me. And it's actually been the very basis that's informed my whole work.

Well, Paul, what, what is watiko? I mean, tell people that.

Yeah, the whole way I can answer that is that it's an indigenous term, Watiko, that the Native Americans would use for really describing the spirit of evil. And in my first book about President Bush being mad, and I coined the phrase malignant egophrenia or me disease. Me disease. And then as I was writing the book, I came across just a little bit of stuff on Watiko. And over the course of time I found out more about it and I realized, oh my God, the Native American people, they've been tracking exactly what I was calling mulliganigophrenia. And for them it's actually, it's like the spirit of evil that can actually take over a person, person. And the person then becomes in a way the instrument for this higher dimensional entity to act itself out. And so what I've done in my book, I've really translated the Native American term into a modern idiom and really unfolded the concept with reference to shamanism and alchemy and quantum physics and Western psychology in a way that really speaks, I think, to everybody in the sense that it's something that pervades the entire non local field of Consciousness and it's something we all have in potential.

So you say this is a disease of civilization?

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely a disease of civilization in the sense that it has to do with being cut off from our true self, cut off from our nature, our true nature, cut off from the environment. And so in a sense, you see, because the thing about Watiko, it actually, how it operates is through the blind spots in our, in our unconscious. And it'll work through the projective tendencies of the mind in a way that we become actually entranced by our own projections. So one of the simple way of understanding it is that we'll actually think we'll have a perception of what's happening in the world and we'll actually think that it's objectively true as compared to that it's just our perception. And then we'll react to our perception as if it objectively exists and condition ourselves and it becomes an infinitely self perpetuating feedback loop that's self generating. And you know, in the meanwhile we, we catch our, we get caught by the, this unconscious projective mechanism that's part of just how we perceive our world. And that becomes a doorway for, for the Watiko. One could think of it as like this, not only like the spirit of evil, but it's almost like, you could say it's like a germ or like a virus or you know, like a parasite of the mind, like a tapeworm. Because if you think about a tapeworm, a tapeworm gets into our system and then it'll secrete chemicals so that we start to crave food that feeds it and we're its host, so we actually feed it and it grows inside of us and it kills us. And that's exactly the way Watiko works. And but the thing about Watiko, it also, it's very contagious. Just remember it's through, it operates through the unconscious, through the blood, through our blind spots. And so if people aren't turned onto it, if somebody is in a way a carrier of it, and they can seem really very bright and very charismatic, but if we don't understand that they're actually in a way have fallen prey to Watiko and we actually support them or follow them, then we in a sense have become then this instrument through which the bug is actually propagating itself. So the whole point is that it operates through one individual, but also operates through the collective, through the non local field. And just let me define one term. When I say the non local field.

You mean holographic field?

Yeah. Well, but What I want to. Actually the thing I particularly want to define is like, yeah, it's like a holographic field, but it's also, it transcends third dimensional space and time in that it's not. So it's not just like, you know, we think about in our third dimensional reality, we think about, for example, like, oh, with light can't, you know, it can't go past the speed of light. You know, just the way information can travel. But in a non local world, all of a sudden everything is connected with everything else. So there's no boundaries as far as like any sort of third dimensional, like laws of space and time are just totally transcended. So the whole point is that the thing with Watiko, it's a higher dimensional entity and that is transcendent to our third dimension, but operates in and through the third dimension.

Okay, fantastic. So what else happened though? What was your awakening like? I know this may have been really the question for the beginning, but what was the big deal about the awakening that someone would think you're mentally ill and how did they have to institutionalize you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the thing was, was that just to create a little context, I was deeply suffering. I was in incredible trauma because my father, it wound up that he was a very sick man. And he was, he wasn't diagnosed, but he was like this psychopath, a genuine world class psychopath. And I didn't realize it at the time, but he was completely taken over by what I'm calling malignant gophrenia. Watiko, he was actually the embodiment of it. So he was, in a way, my teacher. And because I was the only child and I was the recipient of his abuse, it created this enormous suffering for me. And I went into the suffering in a sense that I quickly figured out that I couldn't figure my way out of the suffering with my mind. But the only thing that actually helped my suffering was to just step back and to just observe, which is really, you know, that's like to start doing some form of contemplative meditative practice. And so I began doing that more and more and more. And then at a certain point, I got hit by this lightning bolt, but not in the sky, but inside of my brain. Just in a moment while I was sitting in meditation, this lightning bolt ignited. And I didn't understand that. I didn't know that in a lot of spiritual traditions they'll talk about having awakenings as getting started by getting hit by lightning. You know, they're talking whatever in this, you know, mythical way, but also in a real way. And so within, within 24 hours, I went into such an altered state where I just snapped out of my typical conditioned, repressed identity pattern. And I was acting so unbelievably spontaneous and I was in this ecstatic.

So of course, from people who, they saw me and they thought, oh my God, well, he's having some sort of breakdown. So they brought me and they brought me into a hospital where they, you know. But the thing I should say was that the subjective experience I was having was I was beginning to realize, oh my God, this is a dream that we're having, a mass shared dream. And that that was the nature of our experience. And of course, I hadn't developed the fluency that I have now after, you know, 30, somewhat, you know, long, many, many decades. But that was very, very. A very, very clear experience of, oh my God, we're actually having this dream. And I saw, well, we can actually in a way configure ourselves and get in sync with each other such that we can help, we can all help each other to awaken to the dreamlike nature and to actually change the dream, change the waking dream we were having. And that's what I was. I was actually seeing that really clearly. But in my enthusiasm, I didn't then, like I said, I hadn't developed the fluency or I was just so completely excited about it. And that's typical because typically one needs time to integrate what one is seeing. For me, I just got propelled over this edge. And so like I said over that Next over between 81 and 82, you know, four, five, six times, I don't remember exactly, I had this propensity because I was out in the world. I wasn't in a container. I wasn't in like a monastery or an ashram. I was just out in the world. So I kept on having this propensity to get myself thrown in hospitals.

Wow, that's something else. So who actually put you in a hospital?

Well, in the first time, it was a really good friend who was visiting me. I was living out on the west coast and he was visiting me from the East Coast. And the thing I just described when I began acting so incredibly unlike my typical ordinary self, he was scared and he wanted to take care of me. The thing was, to all appearances, it appeared like I was having a breakdown. And I should point out I didn't know it at the time. But one other way of describing my experience was I was having this like a shamanic sort of like, initiation. And like any. The archetype of the shaman, first off, that archetype gets constellated from having some sort of emotional, like upset, you know, if there's some sort of problem or something that's going on, that actually activates the archetype of the shaman. Because then we start to go in search of the part of ourselves that split off. And when a shaman actually gets called, it's not something that one consciously chooses. Chooses to do, but when the deeper process or the deeper spirits call one to be a shaman, then it almost always will appear like you're having a breakdown, like you're having a psychotic break. Because your inner constitution is just being, in a way, deconstructed so that it can get rewritten in a much more coherent fashion. So all of that was happening for me. And then the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth time that I got hospitalized, it was just either other friends or my parents or. Because, keep in mind, it was happening for me in 81 through 82. And that was like the Stone Age. I mean, even now people have a little bit more understanding that sometimes when people have like, kind of these abnormal experiences, it might be some higher form of spiritual awakening or an emergence where back then, you know, any sort of aberrant abnormal behavior. I mean, psychiatrists are just trained to pathologize. So they immediately pathologized me. And then the fact that I wasn't just signing on and agreeing to their diagnosis just confirmed to them how mentally ill I was in this completely, like, really, you know, this feedback loop. And I mean, it was. It was really a nightmare. And I see now it was, in a sense, a descent for me into the underworld. And very thankfully, I didn't get caught there. But many people do. And many people spend their whole lives who are potentially awakening and healing, you know, and they get.

They.

They take on the diagnosis. They get caught in the whole psychiatric system taking drugs. And it's incredibly hard to get off the drugs. And it's tragic. So I went through that and was really fortunate to be able to extricate myself. But it was not easy.

Wow, what an amazing story. What is, you know, in the book you talk about, and this is very creative title, Vampire Squid Economics. What is that?

Yeah, yeah. Well, what I basically did is, you know, in the book I unfold about Watiko, because it's. It's an incredibly, you see, finding. Having the. When you find the name for something, just like in mythology, when you find the name of a demon, it takes away the power of the demon. And so that's why I really try to bring out the name Watiko. And I pointed out in the book that, you know, one way of studying Whatiko is to see how it infects the system that's made by the human mind or how it affects the human mind itself. And when you study the financial system in the world, in our country, in the world, the whole, you know, the economic system, you understand, oh, wow. That it's actually a model for how Watiko operates. And one example, like you'd mentioned, Catherine, Catherine Austin Fitz, you know, who's a good friend of mine and wrote the forward.

You know, and she'll talk about that when how we invest our money is how we vote, in a sense, and how we spend our money. And if we're investing our money in the corporatocracy, we're actually thinking. She talks about. It's like a tapeworm. It's like economic tapeworm. Tapeworm economics. That when we invest in the corporatocracy, we're actually feeding the tapeworm and we're actually supporting our own. Like, in a sense, murder.

I would say the same is true with government, wouldn't you? I mean, defeating a monster, that's the problem.

Totally. So why I have that chapter on vampire squid economics is because it's a perfect symbol of the way Watika works when it gets in business. And the point is that one can study any system and see. So, like, one really, you know, like I had mentioned, or, you know, as I was talking to you before, I was talking about, oh, what I do for a living. One of the things I have all of these people who, you know, we meet in my home like three, four nights a week, and we just inquire into present moment by being together. Maybe imagine a dozen people every night. And so the thing is, though, the way Watiko also operates is through relationships and through, like I was saying before, through the unconscious and through, like, the parts of ourselves that we all have a blind spot. So you see, the thing about Watiko, it's a form of psychic blindness, but it's a form of psychic blindness that not only it has a belief that it's the one who sighted, and it believes that it's more sighted than anyone else in an arrogant way, but ultimately it's actually blind. It doesn't even see what it's doing. And so the unfortunate thing is that when people who are infected with Watiko get in positions of power, they can actually be in a position to really influence stuff that happens in the world in a way that's very, very destructive. So the thing about Watiko, to understand it's something. It's a disease of the soul that we all have in potential, and we're all. At any moment, we can all fall prey to it. And yet what I'm pointing out in the book is that encoded or hidden in Watiko, it's actually like this incredible blessing that's actually helping us to potentially to wake up, really. It's like actually teaching us about the dreamlike nature of reality. And that's, in a sense, what's so incredible about the psychospiritual diseases of the soul that the natives call Watiko is that it's either going to destroy our species and the evidence is all around us that that's what's actually, in fact happening, or if enough of us have the recognition of what it's revealing to us, we can actually see the dreamlike nature begin to really wake up and then connect with each other, because it's showing us, for example, when I'll say the dreamlike nature, what I mean is that when you're in a dream, in a night dream, and you don't know you're dreaming, you know, you think it's. It's actually, you think you're awake. And then if you have the simply the recognition of the nature of your situation that is that you're dreaming, then you discover, oh, wow. What all of this is, is just. It's my own energy, it's my own reflection. And all the other characters in the dream are actually. They're not separate from me, they're just embodied, reflective aspects of me. So it cuts through this separation of us versus them. And that's what Watiko can potentially show us. So in the meanwhile, it's destroying us. But if we understand what it's showing us, it can actually help us to see the interconnectedness and the interdependence that we all have with each other.

Paul, at the beginning of the show, you mentioned, just kind of quickly, you mentioned George Bush. What was the connection there?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was my first book that I wrote about that. He was mad. And I pointed out that.

Now, which George Bush, first of all, the 2000 to 2008.

George Bush, 2000 to 2008. Right, yeah. So the thing I was pointing out with Bush was that, like, so many of us saw that he was really. He was taken over by something. And the thing. Thing with Watiko, it operates. It's an archetypal energy and that actually takes people over and they become, in a sense, the incarnation of the disease. So I was having the realization, oh my God, here's Bush, who was actually in a sense the full blown embodiment of Watiko.

Well, what do you think he was taken over by? I mean, what do you mean by that? Why was that so obvious? I'm just curious. What?

Well, yeah, if you see that he was just that what was driving him was this addiction to power.

And then power over others, you know, so he wasn't having. He wasn't really in touch with like being related to other people or to the environment. He didn't realize we were all interconnected and interdependent. But you know, it was just really clear that he just wanted, as far as control and power, that he just wanted to gather as much of it. I mean, think about anything he did during those eight years that he was in office. It was all about decentralized control and power.

Well, just for comparison purposes, I mean, I'm no huge fan of George Bush by any means, just so you understand where I'm coming from, but do you think Obama's any less so or is he taken over by Watiko also?

Yeah, no, I would say totally. He's taken over by Watiko, but in a totally different way because it's almost like, you know, it's almost like an advertising campaign where he's presented as way more seemingly. Well, first off, he's so obviously, at least on the surface, more intelligent and more articulate and more concerned about like just like, you know, the ordinary person. And yet when you like, I'll talk to Catherine about this and we'll study his policies. And his policies are totally. Even more so than, compared to Bush, are basically having to do with centralizing control and power in the hands of the few.

Oh my God, Obama's like, he is the king of that. I mean, I've done other shows, you know, where the guests have talked about him. I mean, he has taken over and basically, you know, in quotes, nationalized more of our economy than any other president in history. It's unbelievable.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, and that's the way. So obviously the thing is that anybody who's in a position, who's in a position to become president, I mean, they're clearly in the pockets of the powers that be. They're just the instruments of that. So, you know, some, you know, people who are entranced by Obama, oh, he's so great, he's so good hearted and all this stuff. And Michelle, she's so wonderful. And I would just say, yeah, they're totally under a spell. And that's the thing about Watiko is that it's of the nature of a spell. You see, the thing about Watiko, it's a collective psychosis. And we are in the middle of a collective psychosis called Watiko. That's actually what's happening. And it's so pervasive that we're not even talking about that we're, as a species, that we've gone mad because it's become just like this normal thing. Like when you have a fish in water, it doesn't. Yeah.

It doesn't notice the water.

Right, right. So it's very much like that. And. Yeah. So just to know with Obama, I mean, I'm very disheartened and I see. Yeah. That's. He's just another sort of display or manifestation of the way the Wateko bug can manifest.

It's interesting because, like, with Bush, everybody pretty much knew he was in the pocket of the corporations. Right, right. But with Obama, they don't. But he still is.

Oh, totally, totally.

He is such a fascist. He's so in bed with the corporations. It's unbelievable. Like, Michelle puts a garden in the White House and talks about health and organic food, yet he appoints the former CEO of Monsanto was his Secretary of Agriculture. I mean.

Right, right, right. No, if you take a look at who. At who he's appointing for his economic advisors, I mean, they're the same people who actually. Who created the economic problem in the first place. Yeah.

So it's just Obama's just George Bush number two. It's like the same old thing. You know, how many times do we. Do we ever really get a choice? Like Ron Paul? It's just ridiculous.

Yeah, yeah.

It's too bad. It really is. But crazy, huh? Crazy. Crazy stuff.

Yeah.

No, well, crazy being that it's a collective psychosis. And that's what. That's what. And the thing about, you know, I mean, it doesn' make a difference what the name you call it, whether malignity, gopheria, Watiko, somebody could come up with their own name. But the point is, when you find the name and you find like, the actual. The proper name of the demon, you know, you see the thing about Watiko, because it operates through the unconscious, then it will. It will compel the person who has taken over at whatever. Whatever given moment to become its instrument, and it'll compel them to act it out on the world stage. So the thing about Watiko you see, it's so trippy because it's an inner disease of the soul that's explicating itself through the medium of the outside world. So you actually can see it. It's actually revealing itself to us every moment of the day through what's happening in the world. But we don't have the recognition, but it's synchronistically. It's actually reflecting through how it operates in the outside world, an actual state that's happening inside of us. So the thing is, you see, if we think the evil is outside of us and react against the evil, trying to destroy the evil, then guess what? We've fallen under the spell of Waitiko. But if we see the evil outside of us and we have the recognition, oh, this is some sort of a dream. So what I'm seeing out there, similar to a dream, is a reflection of the same evil inside of me. And then you actually are able to see that evil because we all have a shadow inside of us and are able to metabolize that, then we've actually are cultivating our wholeness and then we're in a position to actually maybe even be of help for the evil that we see in the world.

Yeah, very interesting. Well, tell people where they can get the book and also give out your website and where they can learn more.

Yeah. Okay. So you can get the book on my website, www.awakeninthedream.com. and it's right on the main page is the book, and you can order it and I send it out personally. And. And yeah, that's the website, awakeninthedream.com Fantastic.

Well, Paul Levy, thank you so much for joining us today.

Oh, it's totally. I am just feeling really honored that you would have me on to talk about this stuff because it's super important stuff to shed light on. So thank you.

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