HS 65 – HAARP and Mind Control with Dr. Nicholas Begich

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Welcome to the holistic survival show. This is your host, Jason Hartman, where we talk about protecting the people, places and profits you care about in these uncertain times. We have a great interview for you today and we will be back with that in less than 60 seconds on the holistic survival show. And by the way, be sure to visit our website@holisticsurvival.com you can subscribe to. Our blog, which is totally free, has loads of great information and there's just a lot of good content for you on the site. So make sure you take advantage of that@holisticsurvival.com we'll be right back.

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It's my pleasure to welcome Dr. Nick Baggage to the show. He is an expert on weather control, mind control, population control, all sorts of interesting things. I think you'll find this to be a fascinating show. He's a lecturer on new technologies, health and earth science related issues. And let's hear from him without further ado. Nick, welcome. How are you?

I'm doing well and thank you for having me. It's my pleasure to be with you today.

Well, our pleasure to have you. So you are talking to us from Alaska, right?

That's right. I'm actually the second to the last telephone pole in my neighborhood before you disappear into the wilderness. So it really, really is Alaska, the place I live in.

That's fantastic. Where in Alaska are you? I've been there before.

I'm about an hour and 40 minutes north of Anchorage, headed up towards, well into the Matanuska Valley. I'm looking out my window now. I'm at about 1100ft and you don't see a sign of another soul for 10 miles around. Although they are there, you can't see them.

That is fascinating. You know, I have a picture of myself standing on the Alaska Pipeline at midnight and it's sunny out right.

Right now. That is one of the unique features of this time of year. Although the sun is starting to fade. And then of course, we have the opposite extreme in the winter months.

Right, right. Really messes with your sleeping patterns. But it's a pleasure to have you. So let's talk about. You've published several books and tell us first, harp. And that's an acronym, haarp. What does HAARP stand for and what is it?

It's the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Project. And it was originally an Air Force and Navy project here. It's now under the control of darpa, which does mostly classified research for the various branches of the defense machine here in the United States. HAARP is a radio frequency transmitter. It's actually 180 transmitters in an array. It's a large field that actually focuses or concentrates radio frequency energy. By analogy, it would be similar to what a laser does with light. In this case, it's radio frequency being focused or concentrated for various uses for military applications.

Where is it located?

It's about 250 miles northeast of Anchorage in a place called Gokona. Pretty remote, not a lot of population around there. But it's located here in Alaska and it's one of the many ionospheric heaters, as they're called, scattered around the world. This one just happens to be the most versatile and largest of its kind.

Is it real or is there some controversy as to whether it actually exists or what its actual purpose is of its existence?

You can go to the. You can look up HAARP on the Internet. You'll find the government website. You'll see images of it.

So the government doesn't deny its existence then?

No. And actually there was a show on the True Network recently that Jesse Ventura was hosting. And he actually did a segment on this facility and was able to overfly it. Spiegel tv, BBC, CPC in Canada, Telemundo, Fuji tv. I've been interviewed by them all. All of them have footage of the facility. It is a real facility now.

Is there controversy as to its purpose? The government admits it's there, it's real. Is there controversy as to what they're doing with it?

Sure. That's been there since the inception. The PAT speak for themselves. What we did with the book Angels Don't Play this Harp is actually over 350 source documents, most of them military documents, declassified records, and the actual construction contracts. And the prelude to the construction contracts, the conferences that led to the specifications. All of that information was used in compiling our research. Really the only issue is when and if they use it for specific applications. No question that it can do the things that we've suggested. And after 15 years of publishing and being active on this issue, we have not changed one bit of our position from 15 years ago. The only thing that's happened is time has proven us to be correct.

When was it built?

It was built in the mid and early 90s. And it was originally developed as far as a technology in the 1980s by Dr. Bernard Eastland. We were able to take quite a bit and develop quite a bit about the project. And eventually we got it in front of the European Parliament, we got it in front of the Russian Duma and a number of other political bodies throughout Europe. And the result is really a lot more scrutiny over the science, but more importantly over this whole area of science, which is essentially using energy rather than the normal bombs and bullets as a technique for influencing warfare now and in the future.

Well, you've given us the background and those have been the vein of my questions thus far. Tell us more about what it does, what it's capable of, and just what's going on out there.

There's a couple things. First, it was developed as a prototype to take a look at ways to improve and enhance communications. At least that was the original thought. Was the ionosphere, which is layer of a layer above the Earth's surface, starting about 30 miles up and extending several hundred miles out, is actually an energized layer that becomes disturbed during solar activity or various kinds of solar flare activity. And so it can disrupt or even cut off our ability to communicate wirelessly, terrestrially on the planet. So one of the thoughts was can we figure out a way to stabilize the ionosphere during these periods using an instrument like this on the ground? In other words, can this instrument on the ground literally couple or join with the ionosphere and cause it to change its character? And that was the first real work in this area. And the answer was, yes, it can and yes, it does. The other area that became interesting is, again from a military perspective, is it had some potential for over the horizon radar applications, for creating even what's called an EMP or an electromagnetic pulse, or a surge of energy sufficient to knock out sophisticated electronics on, say, incoming missiles or incoming aircraft. All of these things kind of fit in a general category from a military perspective of observation, surveillance, being able to discriminate between targets and then ultimately being able to take targets out using the exact same system. What later happened is in the course of those patents, there was some discussion about what you might be able to do in terms of weather modification and in terms of physiological effect on human beings. And these became maybe the most controversial areas of our research. But in one specific use, where this kind of crosses over, the HAARP system can be used for generating a pulse or a surge of energy into the ionosphere in such a way as to cause the ionosphere to actually begin to send back to the Earth an elf, an extremely low frequency signal, a very, very long wavelength that will pass through the earth and sea fairly easily. These same wavelengths are used for communication with submarines at depth. They're also used for earth penetrating tomography, or in plain language by analogy, would be like x raying the Earth or looking into the earth for underground facilities and shelters. The problem is, when you utilize an ELF signal, you can create what's called a frequency following response, where the human brain literally connects to or couples with that external signal and begins to mirror it therein causing chemical reactions and changes within the brain. These are all issues that come out in the course of our research and more importantly are supported by literally hundreds of documents that we've been able to point to and reference in the course of our work.

So you're saying that they can control the weather? First of all, let's talk about weather. Can this device control weather?

Yeah, that's a big issue and one that's fairly controversial. I can tell you from the history of this topic, there's actually going back to 1997, William Cohen, when he was Secretary of Defense, was commenting on this kind of technology for exactly this purpose. And in a DoD news briefing on April 28, 1997, the Secretary of Defense at that time said, and I quote, others are engaging even in an eco type of terrorism whereby they can alter climate, set up earthquakes and volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves, unquote. Now, what's important about that is a couple of things. First of all you've got a seated Secretary of Defense making the comment about terrorist organizations being able to trigger earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and climate change using electromagnetic energy, which is essentially what HAARP can do. And HAARP does it in a couple of different ways. One, the most recent analogy of Dr. Eastland was his view of being able to influence gravitational waves with haarp, which he felt would ultimately allow you to manipulate huge, huge weather systems as well as other geophysical aspects of the planet. And the thing about it is the amount of energy that he originally thought was needed, he reduced that by 1600 times. He found that there were resonance effects, coupling effects that could be realized at very, very low energy densities in comparison to what he thought. And herein lies the problem is think about this instrument as a primer, like on a bullet. A small amount of energy gets released, but in a very specific way to cause a greater release of more energy. And that's what HAARP does. HAARP capitalizes on literally the energy of the planet and manipulates it in very specific ways to apply to weapons applications. And this is what you get into when you start to talk about the weather modification. One of the other simple ways, as I said, these are referred to as ionospheric heaters. You can literally heat an area 30 miles in diameter above the HAARP facility. You can push that area of the ionosphere then out several hundred kilometers, and as a consequence, lower atmosphere moves into that space. And it has a couple effects. Firstly, it alters pressure systems and jet streams within the immediate area, which have a tremendous impact on downstream weather. And then secondly, any object passing through that atmosphere that's not supposed to be there, like a low orbiting satellite at a very high velocity, would create friction, malfunction and be destroyed. In fact, as anti satellite technology, as well as weather modification technology, HAARP has that dual use in this particular mode of operation.

Is the U.S. the only one who has this type of equipment?

No, actually this goes back to research done in the 60s and 70s in the former Soviet Union. They had the first five transmitters that were attributed to creating what was called the Woodpecker signal back in the early 70s. And this was a signal picked up by ham radio operators and then they triangulated back to these transmitters in the former Soviet Union. These were the original ionospheric heaters, if you will. And the US actually provided magneto hydrodynamic generator components to fuel these facilities for the Soviets, which is kind of interesting. While we were in the middle of the cold War, we're providing them really high tech equipment.

Why were we doing that? That's crazy.

I have no idea why we do those things. You know, ARM and Hamm, you know, built their industrial plants as far as steel mills and so forth so we could make sure they could build tanks. And as late as the 70s, we were still providing them technology and technology exchanges that certainly gave them advantages they otherwise wouldn't have had. The others that have these are the Europeans. The European Space Agency has a number of these transmitters in Europe. The Russians, of course, Chinese a few years ago announced their work in this area. So I think many countries beyond those that have announced are right.

Okay. But you know, in terms of size and scope, the scale of the device, I mean, I know the technology you could have probably a little portable one too. Is HAARP the largest, the US System, or are there other big systems that could really have significant.

Weaponizing and mind control impact? We'll talk about mind control in a moment.

To my knowledge, this is the biggest facility in the world, is the HAARP facility. And it's still scheduled to double again in size to 360 antenna. So it's headed even to a larger scale.

So they obviously think that it works and it's a viable type of system. So I just want to make sure I understand and the listeners understand the way this works. So are these like big dishes, like radio telescopes? Is that what they are or what does it look like?

If you were to look at them, they're each about. Each of these 180 antennas is about 72ft tall, going straight up out of the ground and then perpendicular going the opposite direction in a T formation. At the top is what they call a cross dipole. And so you have picture 180 of these 72ft tall, spaced probably 150ft apart, and then the cross dipole getting relatively close to each other. But imagine that field of antenna. In fact, people can see that at our website@earthpulse.com under the Harp button, you can get images of what this facility looks like. This is actually.

Its fourth stage of evolution. It started with 48 antennas. They doubled that doubled again. And now they're headed again into their fourth doubling of the facility. So each step along the way, they've proven certain concepts that have been the rationale and justification for further work and expansion of the facility. So so far they're on track. I mean, they've done the things they said they could do. They've proven the concepts, particularly the earth penetrating tomography concept, which was required and was funded under non proliferation and counter proliferation by the United States Congress as a priority back in 1995, 96. And once they proved that technology, they were able to get additional funding and continue to this day.

And so I'm looking at the picture of these antennas right now on your website. So what this does is these antennas transmit. Now, are they, it's, it's, I assume they're very directional, right? They can. And they can heat up. They can literally change the temperature in the ionosphere. How far away is the ionosphere from the ground?

Starts 30 miles up. And, and here's the thing is they're focusing the energy and they concentrate it. And what they create is what's called a cyclotron resonance, which if you could visualize this, it would be like a corkscrewing kind of motion of energy that gets tighter and tighter as you get higher and higher. And once you hit the ionosphere, you've got it concentrated into a relatively small place and then you can pulse it or manipulate it. And the ionosphere, which is energized, also begins to harmonize with that, begins to resonate with it, begins to mirror that signal, that pulse rate. And then it converts the ionosphere from DC power to AC to alternating current. And it acts like a giant broadcast antenna. In other words, this ionosphere then becomes not just a shield from external cosmic radiation streams coming into the earth. It becomes a broadcast system for specific pulse rates of energy with a very specific intent in mind with that energy as it relates to either Earth penetrating tomography or other applications within the military arsenal on the facility. So it's very different when you start to think about weapons being sort of separate from nature. Here's a weapon system that capitalizes on nature, that takes nature and uses it in a way that is quite, quite different than things that we've done in the past.

So they broadcast this signal, it hits the ionosphere, and how much temperature change occurs? Because that's what changes the weather really, is the temperature changing. Right. When the ionosphere's temperature changes, high temperature is a high pressure zone. Right. And that moves cold weather away.

What it's doing is it's literally heating. Yeah, it is creating a heating situation. And in weather modification, there's a couple of ways you can utilize that. One is actually was looked at by the European Space Agency was using HAARP for knocking out tornadoes. And the way they envisioned that was this energy would be able to be directed towards, say, where a cold front and a warm Front are coming together and you're going to get that shearing action. The idea was that you could heat up that cold front sufficiently so that when they hit each other, there would not be that differential and that and that shearing would not be created and you wouldn't see that tornado form. In the other instance of actually heating the ionosphere, you're accelerating electrons and you're heating it up to the point where it actually lifts and pushes it out into space. And as a result, all that lower atmosphere begins to fill that space, alters the pressure systems, alters the flow of jet streams. But that is, you know, those mechanisms are sort of the outfall, the consequence of just any use of these facilities. The thing that's been observed is that by deliberately doing this, very slight changes in one place create big changes in others. And the problem with all of this, you can't model the whole Earth, at least we can't yet, so that we can predict every outcome. And as a consequence, when you start to manipulate geophysics within the planet, you're really, you're really shooting in the dark.

Oh, I would completely assume that there are all kinds of unintended consequences here and things that they just can't predict. I mean, they can predict initially what it does. Sure, you're going to heat that part of the ionosphere, it's going to do certain stuff to things right around it. But in the bigger scheme, I would assume nobody knows. They just can't even model that. Right?

That's right. Because all these systems we now recognize as being connected, they're not like separate operating in some vacuum somewhere. Everything is connected. Weather systems, particularly, very small changes in far off places called dramatic changes elsewhere. And this is something.

It's the butterfly effect, right?

It is indeed. And that is just a flat law within physics. And when you start to think about small effects, we need to recognize that what we're dealing with now are systems where we're no longer operating in some isolated place. We are manipulating the very systems that drive the system, the planet, and doing it deliberately for military purposes. And the problem with that, from my perspective, and I come out of a pretty serious political family, my dad was United States Congressman. My brother is a seated U.S. senator today. And I can tell you the level of science knowledge in the United States Congress to evaluate the implications of our weaponization of the Earth is not there. There is not enough scientific knowledge in the policymakers in the United States or any other country for that matter, to guide the direction of technology away from a military, industrial Complex which a very different mission than the mission of most civil societies.

Who's the senator that you're related to, by the way?

My brother Mark. He is a junior senator from Alaska.

What party?

He's a Democrat actually and he's been in two years and he's considered the fifth ranking Democrat in terms of his position. He does a lot of good work. And actually Mark is the only US Senator without a college degree, which I guess makes him closer to most people in the country in the sense of who he is. But a pretty remarkable person and trying to do a very tough job at a very tough time.

And so first, before we leave the weather concept, what would be a specific like weaponization of weather? Or do you. Maybe a better question is have there been any. And I have a feeling you're going to say yes to this cases where you think they have manipulated weather and caused major events that maybe we've all heard of. And is it just weather or does it influence maybe earthquakes, things like that?

This is all really important questions and unfortunately without independent monitoring you can't really draw clear conclusions about an event. But I can tell you every, I mean I've heard comments from the things that happened in Haiti to the Japan earthquake to even our own here in the US recently. And some people have attributed that to HAARP or systems like harp. The question is really are these specific events related? And I could not answer that. Could they be related to these systems? The answer is yes, we do have technology on the planet. The Secretary of Defense from the last administration acknowledge it. Rumsfeld from the Bush administration actually talked about the idea of abandoning the environmental and geophysical treaties. You know, we actually have a treaty that says we can't do this against our adversaries. Rumsfeld wanted that treaty abandoned because the technology advanced so far that the idea of being able to use nature itself as a weapon. Talk about plausible deniability. I mean from his perspective, to be able to wage a covert war with weather or the earth itself and then be invited in to clean up the mess rather than having to go in with tanks. And that is and was expressed by him when he was in his position of power. And the problem is that kind of thinking exists within the bureaucracy, continues to exist within the bureaucracy which lives beyond any administration.

That's just has unbelievable implications. It really does. It seems that with HAARP they would want this and maybe there are plans to do it in a lot of different locations. I mean you can only do so much from way up in Alaska. I mean, why don't they have a system in Florida, in Southern California, in New Hampshire, at least cover the sort of the four corners of the country, and Hawaii, of course, and then maybe other bases around the world?

Well, interestingly enough, the ideal locations are in the polar regions. And the reason being is there's another attribute to HAARP that becomes very important again from a weaponization perspective. The magnetic field lines which emanate from the southern polar regions and then follow lines, a force that then reintersect the Earth at the northern polar regions and where the energies interact with solar activity as well as the. As the oxygen and nitrogen in the upper atmosphere, you get the auroras, of course, but also where these magnetic field lines come closest to the Earth for certain applications of haarp, you can actually accelerate electrons into those magnetic lines of force, which then allow those electrons to flow from the north to the south in a very, very powerful way, where any object passing through them, like an intercontinental ballistic missile, would be scrambled, would disrupt its avionics, its control mechanisms, and cause it to crash. In fact, you don't need very many facilities. But the northern regions, for us and our allies, seems to be the place. So there is a series of these constructed across Canada that Rosalie Bertell, a Canadian researcher and scientist, has reported on. Also there's the Izakat system across northern Europe and then the old Soviet system. So there are transmitters that already exist. The idea that you could triangulate these to specific points and even create more powerful effects is something that shows up in the literature. And then the idea of being able to create a global shield becomes part of, part of that same science and discussion as we look at sort of the conferences and the gatherings of experts in this field that have happened from time to time.

What is the global shield? What do you mean by that?

This was Eastland's first concept, was during the big fear of intercontinental ballistic missiles and rogue nations, this idea of creating a shield that would virtually knock out everything that passed through it. And so his thought was if we could take a certain amount of radio frequency energy located in the northern regions where there are vast supplies of. In fact, most people don't realize it, but 25% of all the undiscovered hydrocarbons exist in the northern polar regions. At least those are the estimates. Natural gas through magnetohydrodynamic generators are the ideal source for creating electrical energy at the levels that you need for these transmitters. And then you're located not just near a fuel source, but you're also located near the magnetic field lines that surround the Earth in such a way that you can actually utilize your location, your energy, to actually intersect those points. And so this becomes important. From a standpoint of location, Florida would not serve so well. The other thing is the radio interference created from these devices would interfere with most electronics within a reasonably close proximity. So locating them in the remote regions of Alaska for several practical reasons makes sense, but then as a mechanical reason, even makes more sense.

Yeah, that makes sense. I see what you mean. Okay, let's switch gears and let's talk about the mind control implications of this. I mean, this is just fascinating, fascinating stuff here. How is this used, or could it be used to control people's thoughts and behavior and attitude and so forth?

Well, this is, I think, becomes the most important issue. And really, for us, it took us a few different directions. Wrote the book with Gene Manning, Angels Don't Play this harp. And we touched on this issue of mind effects. And then more thoroughly a couple years ago, I revisited that issue in the book called Controlling the Human Mind, which really gets into the nuts and bolts of how that works. But HAARP actually can be utilized for changing general emotional states. In fact, this goes back to the work of GF Gordon McDonald when he was at UCLA and he was an advisor, a science advisor to President Lyndon Johnson. He's also a geophysicist. And he had written in a book called Unless Peace Comes, a chapter on geophysical manipulation. One of the things he said was that if we could ever figure out how to electronically stroke the ionosphere in just the right way, we could return a signal to the Earth that would manipulate the emotional behavior of people over huge geographic areas. Now, this was taken and sort of amplified in the writing of Zbigniew Brzezinski in his book Between Two Ages, which he wrote at Columbia University in the early 70s, just before he became National Security Advisor to Jimmy Carter when he was president. And this whole idea of finding a way to do this was not possible until harp was invented in the mid-80s. It became a system that you could actually create that ELs that GF Gordon McDonnell was talking about in such a way to return a signal within a window frequency within a range that would create a resonance or a coupling within the human brain. And think about it like a radio tuner. You know, people who tune in on the radio to hear a radio broadcast, they go through the various bandwidths and they finally hit a station. And what they're actually doing is hitting resonance between the transmitter and the receiver where you can get a nice clear signal. Well, the same is true in the human mind and human body. Various signals can couple with us on a cellular level, on a gross organ body level. In fact, for radio frequency, there's a radio frequency dosimetry handbook prepared by the Air Force under contract University of Utah that actually lays out sort of the overloading signals for the various organs of the body. But the mind, the brain has the ability to follow these external signals. And when it does, the brain chemistry changes and behavior changes. And this can be done with any electromagnetic carrier. And I think this is the important thing and why we took the topic a little bit further than haarp. There are many ways to create this sort of entrainment effect. In fact, there was an article in the US Army War College Quarterly called Perimeters that really got into this. And it was an article called the mind has no firewalls. And we quote it pretty extensively in some of our work. But I'm looking as I'm talking for one particular quote that illustrates sort of the use of all of this. And what it does is any electromagnetic carrier think about television, radio, the Internet, anyone. And here's the quote and I'll read it as follows. A psychotronic generator which produces a powerful electromagnetic emanation capable of being sent through telephone lines, TV radio networks, supply pipes and incandescent lamps. This signal would manipulate the behavior of those in contact with the signal. Now what that means is that these external signals that can be created actually can couple, can join with the body and create these various effects. Now when we testified on HAARP in the European Parliament back in 1998 and they passed, in early part of 1999, they passed their resolution A40005.99. And in section 27, which follows three sections on HARP, the following is stated and I quote, it calls for an international convention including introducing a global ban on all developments and deployments of weapons which might enable any form of manipulation of human beings. And what we did in that hearing when we were invited over was demonstrate an infrasound device, a device that actually transfers sound information through the nervous system so it's perceived within the head. And these devices are talked about in the context of non lethal weapons often, but to my knowledge no one ever demonstrated one to a political body until that day.

So what you're saying is this is a, this is something where you could play a sound inside someone's head without it really being making any sound?

Well, yeah, without the normal sound wave. In other words, they hear it nobody around them would.

Is that true? Is that proven now? Can that be done or is it speculative?

Oh, no, you can do this. You can do this even wirelessly. We did it with a device where you had to attach it to the body. And I physically demonstrated that device in the European Parliament. Now, Woody Norris, who won the MIT Lemelson Prize back I, I think it was 204 or 205 for what's called acoustic heterodyning, where he could actually take a signal and achieved a patent where he could send that proverbial voice in the head wirelessly so you would perceive it. And they're using them now in military installations for early warning systems for people violating perimeters. So they get the voice in the head telling them to step back. And I'm trying to remember the symbol. American Technologies is the name of the company. It's publicly traded. So people can look it up and look at Woody Norris work. You can do a search under Woody Norris and the Lemelson Prize and you'll see what he won and what he did. This is not speculative. This is proven.

This has amazing implications because you know what it reminds me of? Although this was not done with your technology, but when they captured Manuel Noriega, he was holed up in that embassy, that Vatican embassy, and they played, I believe, country music.

Which he really hated. I like country music and but, but he hated it. I believe it was country. And that was a form of psychological warfare. In fact, I just looked it up and on Wikipedia, it's called the Operation Nifty package that the Navy SEALs used. So 1989, it references interesting.

Well, you know, it wasn't just them. If you think back on Waco, they do the same thing. And they hired a guy.

What they do in Waco, I don't remember.

They used sound and they used television broadcast several things. And they hired a guy from the. From a psycho corrective institute associated with the USSR Academy of Sciences back when there was a USSR and it was Smirnoff's work in mind control. And he was actually featured on a program on Canadian television on their public broadcast with me on Mind F X years ago. And he was actually being retained by the FBI to try and apply some of his techniques to manipulate people outside within the complex to come out. These techniques are pretty well known within certain circles. And the thing about it is they can be extraordinarily effective. But when you start to dabble with the human mind, and I think this is very. Became one of the more interesting Areas, at least for my work, was the issues of controlling human behaviors and human mental processes with outside signals. Actually is a lot of the work today of DARPA in terms of looking at methods for things like electronic telepathy. They have two contracts.

Tell the listeners what DARPA is.

DARPA is a defense research agency, again doing work primarily for military organizations in the country. Mostly classified work. And they had let two contracts out in 209, 210 to the university of California. And basically to look at these modeling for telepathic reception and transmission. And the idea was that we could figure out how to model the human brain in such a way to actually get thoughts in real time and interpret those and then be able to transmit very complex signals back that essentially allow us to transmit thought directly into the brain. I mean, if people just stop and contemplate that for a moment against the backdrop in today's program, we're just not going to have the time to get into the history of the whole mind effects issue. But we track that history going back to the 1920s into the current frame. And where we are in the science is. It is in a place where we're. It's almost a metaphor for what we are as human beings. You know, we try to do nature and we try to discover all of these underlying mechanisms. And as we do, we also learn a great deal about the human consciousness and what it's capable of. And one of the big things that came out of the mind control research of the government, and a great deal of it has been done, we used over 250 sources in controlling the human mind to document that. But what came of that was one thing that most people miss. And it wasn't about creating Manchurian candidates, although that's kind of an interesting side trip that several researchers for the government went into and actually developed pretty good techniques for doing that. The real discovery was what the military now refers to as anomalous human potentials, or what we used to call paraphysics in the 70s and now extrasensory perceptions in some quarters. But the military actively is pursuing these anomalous functions. And as a result of some of the brain research, some of the mind research and consciousness studies, what was really discovered about human beings is that we're a great deal more than we think we are. In fact, when I was executive director for the LAY Institute in Dallas, I put together a conference that was closed to the public on mind effects. And we brought in a number of specialists. The former head of the biophysics lab for the USSR Academy of sciences. A good friend of mine, Alex Kaveranen, we brought Ben Eastland, who was the inventor of the HAARP system. Rosalie Bertell, extremely well known as one of the advocates for radiological victims around the world, called as an expert witness. Often we had Elizabeth Rauscher, a biophysicist, geophysicist, and an atmospheric physicist. Very brilliant, brilliant woman, as well as two electrophysiologists from Finland and a couple of others. And in that mix, the thing that everyone was kind of pointing to, that I felt was really the most startling thing of all is the next evolution of humankind really starting to touch on these issues of what we are and what's possible. And interestingly enough, from the physicists was coming this message of, hey, what we are is a lot more than we think. And in. In basic physics, the idea of the observer, that's you and I being able to affect outcomes of whether something is a particle or matter or whether it's wave and energy. The observer plays a part. We actually create reality at a fundamental quantum level. And the understanding of that really changes the way we see, see the world and the possibilities that are there. The one hindrance, the one.

Now that's not, as I recall it. What is it called? The Hawthorne Effect. I think that's not that. This is different, right?

Yes. And really, when you think about what's possible within that context, I think that's where real change comes to be. Our technologies are a reflection of our creative capacity as human beings. How we create is a reflection of our insanity, I think, sometimes. But nonetheless, we have the potential of doing some things. And this is where we see these anomalous capabilities pop out every once in a while. Now there's a definite, and has been for decades, a search for the keys to that. The one thing that blocks higher levels of consciousness is very simple. It's worry and it's fear. If you look at an eeg, you look at brain activity, experiencing any level of worry and fear, it totally negates your ability to reach your higher state of consciousness, which can only be realized in a state of calm. As a result, the kinds of things that lead to creative solutions, to intellectual solutions as they come through creatively, can't happen in an environment of fear and worry. And that's exactly what we see scattered around the planet today. The easiest method of mind control, keep people in a state of fear. The best method of liberation is let go of the fear and find out what you're capable of as a human being, and you'll discover what the military discovered that we're much more than we think we are.

So getting back to HAARP and this type of technology, can it create fear in people or is that better done through the media?

That's easily done. In fact, Persinger at Laurentian University did a paper on this, and he's a pretty brilliant guy on mind effects. And within the framework of his research, he suggested that we could create a complex signal that would just create that sense of dis ease or something was wrong, that sense of tension. And then you could just play a news release into the media of blaming some group or some event for all of you.

A false flag type of thing.

Right. And that emotion then gets diverted just as a natural consequence in that direction because it looks for an outlet that would be as simple as it needs to be. But you could do it in a much more complex way. We used Project Solo and other projects in the Middle east during the first Gulf War where we sent in an aircraft full of electronic gear and we actually, according to Scottish media, embedded signals on the radio broadcast coming out of the region that were broadcasting the Moslem music and prayers. And we piggyback a signal on there that created a sense of anxiety and fear. And in that first Gulf War, if you remember, we watched the fourth largest army in the world collapse like a bunch of children on their first fire drill. It didn't make any sense, but if you put it in the context of creating first that sense of disease and agitation so overwhelming that people would quit, would drop their arms and quit. That's what we saw, according to school Scottish media, and we speculated on that, just given what we saw on CBC TV some months before that press report came out. The point is, the technology is here today. The question is, would our government or other governments use it? And anyone naive enough to think they wouldn't needs to look at our own history, even in recent history, and understand that this government, and coming from a family that has been in it going into the third generation, I can tell you the only government that you can trust is the one that you police as an average citizen, because otherwise it runs from you.

Well, well, that really brings up another question. I mean, are you opposed to our government using it as long as it's for what we think is good and moral and decent? And, you know, I know that's up for debate, but.

Well, here's. Here's my thought on that isn't. And I'll. And I'll echo the inventor's own thoughts now that because he has Passed away. He died in 2007, a few months after our conference. And I can tell you Eastland did not believe that our military, our government, should have control of weather modification technology or any technology that deals with the geophysics of the planet. And the reason they don't, he didn't believe that was the right way, is because there's not enough scrutiny, there's not enough care, and there's not enough caution. It's better, if at all. What he said is it's better to do it in the open light of day, involving the governments of the world and the best science across all the disciplines, before we ever attempt to manipulate the Earth itself, that the risks far outweigh the benefits. Unless we do this very, very slowly and very, very carefully, we have a chance of really screwing things up. And as the inventor, I think we should, we should recognize his cautions.

But Pandora is out of the box, right?

Absolutely is. And here is the challenge too. With that is the signals, electromagnetic signals to create these various effects that we've been talking about have to do with very specific frequencies in the same way as dialing into the radio station. In other words, those that know the science are capable of monitoring its use and picking out those signals from the background noise. No one can hide this in a silo. That's why we need a broader approach. Because, look, the basic underlying physics of this, the basic underlying science of this that either destroys this planet is the same basic understanding of energy interactions with living organisms like human beings that can change the very state of our health, our awareness, and the possibilities of creating a planet that can actually sustain this population. So when I look at it from the standpoint again of metaphor, on the one hand, our fear drives all of our systems that create a very insane world. We have an opportunity to do the opposite. We have an opportunity to change our own awareness and consciousness, redirect our technologies in a way that can enhance the planet rather than destroy it. And I think the planet and the people on it are asking for it. We see these signs in revolution around the world. People are tired of what they interpret as corruption, whether it be in corruption of their political bodies, the science that drives us, or the corporations that fuel the fires of politics in the world today, things need to change. And it changes with individuals insisting on a more sane approach to our sciences and technology. Because in 21st century, science and technology is what determines the strength of governments. And within the 21st century, it means that the average citizen has to have a better knowledge of at least what happens with science and technology so we can be responsible stewards within our systems on this planet today.

Well, that is a great vision. Of course, unfortunately, I doubt it will come to pass, at least not in the near future. I hate to be a pessimist, but I am, I guess, in some ways. But that really leads to another question for you. Is there a way to defend against this type of technology? For example, if someone is pointing these radio waves at us, do we get a tinfoil hat in the shape of a pyramid? What do we do?

You know, really, each signal requires a separate countermeasure, which is the problem. You can't build a single mechanized system that will counter this. I mean, you could pick out a full spectrum analyzer that might pick out the signals and tell you what's coming your way. That you can do. You can create, always create a counter approach to any individual wavelength. The problem is, again, that doesn't solve the problem. It just accelerates the race for measures and countermeasures, which is a cycle. We've been locked in on weaponization of the planet for the last couple of years. Thousand years, you know, coming from clubs and spears to where we are today. The mindset has to change. People want to know what a countermeasure is. We have to change. Human beings have to change. And I am a pathological optimist. That is one of my handicaps in life, because I believe it can happen. And it doesn't require the majority of anything. It requires a small number of people to become actualized and activated and engaged.

It's the hundredth monkey theory. You know, you, you probably believe in the hundreds. Monkey theory, right? Where enough people become activized, engaged, and conscious and maybe it'll change everybody else. Is that.

I could say that. But I don't believe you need 100 monkeys. I think you only need one person to wake up. And that creates a chain reaction. Every revolution in thought, in consciousness, in art, in science, in politics and business started that way. And every revolution, including the one that freed this country from Great Britain, started with only 6% of the population. Even thinking that was a good idea never requires an overwhelming majority, only requires a few conscious people stepping forward to do what they believe is right and good and then to learn from it. I think that's a challenge for all of us on this planet.

Well, there's a great quote that I like very much, and forgive me because I can't remember who said it, I don't know the attribution, but it's one person with courage makes a majority.

I believe that. I think that is true and I think our history proves it. And humankind can rise to that occasion. All of us can. And there are no small things, only things that need to be done.

Well, very, very interesting. But give out your website again and tell people where they can learn more.

Sure. Check out our website@earthpulse.com E A R T H P U L S C There's books, there's videos there that keeps us in this work, but there's also lots of free material, hundreds of pages. Please take a look at it, pass it on to others and let's make the world a better place. Let's change it one bite at a time.

Fantastic. Look for the books Controlling the Human Mind. Angels don't play this harp and that's H AARP the acronym Earth Rising and Earth Rising 2. Just very, very interesting work. Nick, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you for having me. I look forward to doing it again in the very near future.

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