LS 135 Fit2Fat2Fit with Drew Manning

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Hello everyone, this is your host, Fernando Aris in partnership with the Hartman Media Company. Today I have the pleasure to welcome Drew Manning. Drew is the New York Times best selling author of the book fit 2 fat 2 fit and he's best known for his experiment that went viral online. He's been featured on shows like Dr. Oz, Good Morning America, the View and many more. His experiment has become a hit TV show, also called Fit 2 Fat 2 Fit, airing on AE. Drew, welcome. And I just wanted to know where are you located today? I'd like to give our audience a sense of geography.

Yeah, thanks Fernando for having me on. First of all, I live in Salt Lake City, Utah, currently.

Excellent. So Drew, let's get right into this because you have a fascinating story. Your book Fit to Fat to the Unexpected Lessons from Gaining and Losing 75 Lbs on Purpose is highly rated on Amazon. So I want to start off by reading a couple of reviews that I found are representative of your message. Is this okay with you?

Yeah, for sure.

First one, I read this book with an open mind and no expectations. It was absolutely amazing and an inspirational read. I no longer feel self conscious and like an annoyance that doesn't belong in the gym. And being a fat girl, that's a big thing to say. And this was written by Missy.

Wow.

You know, I want to ask you to comment on this. So let me go to the second one. The book reviews that this was not just a publicity stunt but a man really trying to understand the journey to to a healthy life in order to help people. Drew is honest and open about his failure to understand until after experiencing it. I think he really gets it and Offers real advice to anyone on the journey themselves. This was written by Sharon. These are powerful testimonials. Why do you think you resonated so strongly with people and as a consequence, got this amount of recognition via your book, TV show, etc. Shed some light on this, Drew. Tell us your story.

For sure. Yeah. So basically, it all starts with my fit to fat to fit journey. And I'll kind of summarize it for those that have no idea what that's about. So, basically, growing up, my entire life, I was in shape, and I never knew any different. And so for me, I had a hard time connecting with my clients who were overweight, because it seems so simple to me. All you do is you eat healthy, you exercise. It's not that hard. Why are you struggling to live this lifestyle? And then they would tell me, you know, Drew, you don't understand how hard it is because for you, you've grown up your entire life in shape. And I kind of took that to heart. And so, for me, I was thinking of ideas to better relate to my clients. And I know it sounds crazy, but the idea of getting fat on purpose, it made sense in my mind. I felt like I was called to do this. It was something I needed to do. And so for me, I took on this challenge of letting myself go for six months and gaining 75 pounds over that course of time and totally being humbled. And that's where I think people were able to relate to me. And that's why I love hear reviews like that, because it made me more relatable as a trainer, because people who are overweight look at people in the fitness industry and think, oh, that would be so cool to have abs and look like that. But that's just not relatable to me. I can't see that ever happening for me. For me. And this is why people described it to me. Here I was on top of this mountain of fitness my whole life, thinking it's easy to get to the top. And my clients were at the bottom, and I was at the top yelling at them, look, just keep coming. It's not that hard. Just keep pushing. And then for me to come down to their level, which is, you know, not. Not exactly, but in somewhat come down to their level and seeing it from their perspective and being humbled made me more relatable and helped me better relate to them.

Yeah, in listening to you, it makes perfect sense. I mean, the hard part is actually going through it. And. And I've understood the struggles, but for the benefit of the audience, can you go through some of the stats of how much did you lose, how long it took? Just give us kind of a framework for what you went through.

Yeah, so I started at 193 pounds, around 8 1/2% body fat when I started this journey. Got up to 269, gaining 75 pounds and up to 32% body fat in just six months time. And then I did make it back to fit, fortunately, but it was not easy. It was very humbling and way harder than I ever imagined it would be. Got back down to 190 pounds and same body fat percentage. So those are some of the statistics. Now my blood work was very interesting though because it got really bad really quick. Eating the standard American diet. So my blood pressure was 167 over 113. My testosterone dropped to the low two hundreds. And this was only after six months of eating this way. I also developed a non alcoholic fatty liver disease in six months as well, which was scary because I didn't drink alcohol at the time, I just drank soda. And a lot of people think, oh well, you know, I'm drinking soda, I don't drink alcohol, so you know, I'm healthier. But that's not true. So those are just a few stats to throw out there.

Well, it's not surprising to me that the fatty liver issue because same processes for metabolizing fructose and a lot of our beverages have some sort of fructose. You know, high fructose corn syrup is so prevalent, unfortunately. And a lot of those metabolisms are very similar between alcohol and fructose. And this is a part that a lot of people don't realize and it's definitely not talked about because it's, it would be extremely unpopular for the soda industry and any food that contains fructose. But yeah, it will give you a fatty liver and it will give you similar symptoms as an alcoholic. You know, only a small percentage of the alcohol actually goes to the brain and gives you the buzzing sensation. But I think 80% or so goes through the liver. So if you're drinking plenty of soda, imagine during that time, right, you're free for any kind of junk food.

Yeah, pretty much soda, a lot of juice. And if you look at it, actually most of the foods I was eating were low fat. So white bread and white pasta and juices and chips, cookies, crackers, granola bars. All these foods that are kind of touted as somewhat healthy because they're low fat or sometimes cereals, even though they're loaded with sugar will say low fat or multigrain or whole grain and fortified with vitamin A and vitamin D. And they try and find ways to market to us as, oh, this is kind of healthy. Those were the foods that I was eating that caused the weight gain and the blood work to do what it did. And so sometimes we as Americans fall for that type of marketing, which is unfortunate and sad because we're like, oh, yeah, you know, this is low fat. It's not that bad for me.

Yeah. And, you know, I'm glad you bring this up because I see the same thing and really gets me upset because whatever becomes, I guess the buzzword for the time being is used to market a product. And when you look behind the curtains, as you said, you can have this, you know, one pound of sugar and stamp a label on it saying it's low fat.

Yeah.

But the reality of it is it will become fat in your body, will be metabolized and your body will not be able to handle all of that sugar all at once. And it will become fat in your body. So this whole concept of low fat diet has been such a lie, you know, over the last couple of decades. It just did such a disservice and killed people. I actually know about that myself. So one other aspect of it, just to comment, what you said is a lot of what you eat is part of the SAD diet, Right. The standard American diet. So, you know, it wasn't necessarily that you went, I don't know how to describe it, but you went beyond some sort of threshold to eat the worst of the worst. So an example that I would give you is, well, if you were to drink soda, I'm not sure that you went to the extra step of buying the cheapest soda. No, you know, national brand type soda, in order to exacerbate the amount of chemicals that went in your body. Did you even have to do that or just. Just sticking with the standard American diet? Did it?

No, I mean, it depended on what I was buying. So soda, I generally went with Mountain Dew, like the name brand stuff, but when I went with cereal or macaroni and cheese, I just went for whatever was the cheapest. Because here's the thing is, in America, we have access to some of the cheapest food ever, but it's the most unhealthiest stuff that's out there. It's cheap, it's affordable, it's convenient, and it tastes really, really good. Like cinnamon toast crunch, Mountain Dew, macaroni and cheese. Don't get me wrong, this food Tasted good, but it made me feel horrible. It made me feel terrible. People eat this stuff on a daily basis sometimes because for some people, that's all they can afford in some situations. And so it's sad to think that we think, well, eating healthier costs so much more. Well, the real question is, why is this food so cheap when real whole produce and real quality meats and seafood and eggs and things like that? Why is that so much more expensive? Why is this other food so dang cheap?

Yeah. And I think the conspiracy theory, which is actually pretty well documented in plain sight, is that it addicts people into eating more and more and this makes more money. And, you know, of course, if the company that is selling those quote unquote foods also has some sort of relationship with the pharmaceutical company, well, now. Now it's a perfect storm.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, unfortunately, I think there's a case to be made there. So just circling back, Drew, you went through this experiment, which was from a personal perspective, I think very telling, from what I can tell for yourself. And you were able to relate to clients in a much deeper level because you actually knew what it was like to be overweight and then try to get back into shape. And then you created the TV show, and you still coach quite a bit of clients. So I wanted to ask you, currently, you offer various programs for coaching clients essentially toward losing weight and living a healthier lifestyle. We know that there are some basic nutrition principles that we must follow in order to achieve this, but at the same time, everybody's different. And what works for one might not work for another. So my question to you is, what sort of discoveries do you encounter when you start off working with a client? In other words, what's your basic guidance to begin with? But then how do you diagnose the client and offer some specific advice?

That's a good question. And here's the thing, I guess, you know, just to make sure everyone understands my business model, I don't train one on one anymore. Unfortunately, when Fit by Fit took off, I didn't have the time to train clients one on one. Right. When I started off in the industry, you know, as a personal trainer, I was training clients one on one, but I was just based off of the limited knowledge I have as a NASM certified trainer. So National Academy of Sports Medicine is what I use for my certification. And now that I've kind of grown my business online, unfortunately, it's kind of taken train people one on one and diagnosing them, it's kind of taken a Back seat. So to impact the masses, what I do now is no matter what program, people follow. So I have a keto program, I have an intermittent fasting program, my six month transformation program, the one they use to get back to fit. I have that, which is paleo ish type of protocol. No matter what lifestyle people choose to go down, there's a couple things that I think are essential. No matter what health journey someone's on. So whether vegan, keto, paleo, it doesn't matter. And that's on the mental and emotional side. So when people sign up for one of my programs, they get access to a private Facebook group where there's that emotional support and they have accountability with other people in the group. They can ask their questions, they can post about their struggles, their successes, they can provide support for other people and it builds this strong community. Because no matter who you are, you're going to struggle on your journey to obtaining a healthier life. And you need people in your corner. It doesn't always have to be friends or family. Sometimes friends or family are the ones that sabotage your journey. They don't want you to get in shape, they don't want you to get skinny or healthy because they feel like they're going to be left behind. So an online community, from what I found, like in these private Facebook groups, where there's no judgment, that's a safe place to ask your questions and share your struggles, is very, very powerful. Because here we are, these strangers from all over the world in this one group with a common goal in mind. And it's so powerful to see them reaching out, helping each other out, giving support when needed, asking for support when needed as well. And for me, it's more about helping people on the mental and emotional side rather than just saying, okay, here's a meal plan, here's a workout program, it doesn't really matter. There's so many ways to lose weight, whether you're doing keto or vegan or paleo. It's not so much about weight loss, even though we make it about that. It's about, in my opinion, helping people achieve medical health first and then letting weight loss and looks be a byproduct of living that lifestyle over time. But people need that support system and accountability, no matter who they are. For me, that's essential in all of my programs so that people can be a part of that community. And that's why I love working with people that are in my inner circle that do kind of groundwork, that are there diagnosing People doing blood work, some basic baseline testing, like doing a DEXA body scan and looking at their blood work and kind of saying, okay, we feel like this type of protocol is for you, but unfortunately that's not my business model.

So you talk about the mental side and let's dig into that a little bit. It's somewhat common for people to lose weight at the beginning stages of a new program, new lifestyle, slash diet. But often they hit a plateau where it's no longer working for them or they can't go beyond, you know, that particular weight. Do you see this with your clients? And what do you do about it? You know, is this mostly mental or in. If yes, what kind of support is common for you to provide?

Yeah, and I get asked that question all the time. First of all, I think it has to do with what our definition of a plateau is. A lot of people think, oh, I haven't lost weight in a couple of weeks, therefore I've hit a plateau. But I kind of challenge that and say, okay, let's look at some other forms of measurement that are a lot more telling of what's going on other than your relationship with gravity. One, I don't realize why we put so much value on a relationship with gravity, which is your scale weight, because the goal isn't weight loss, the goal is fat loss. So other forms of measurement that are more telling are one, just taking measurements, which is free. You just take measurements around your chest, your waist, and your hips on a weekly basis, not every day, but on a weekly basis. And then also getting your body fat tested. So using a bipod or DEXA scan doesn't matter what you use to stay consistent with it. And all you're doing is measuring change from one week or one month to the other, and then also progress in the gym. So having a few standardized workouts that are the exact same that you start out with. And let's say it's like a CrossFit style workout where you get 10 rounds in, in X amount of minutes, and then next month you try and do the same workout to see if you've improved. So that's why I'm saying a plateau isn't just about weight loss. If you've been progressing in the gym, like you're getting stronger, faster and you're losing inches and your body fat's going down, but your weight hasn't changed, then it doesn't matter. In my opinion, that's not a plateau. But I do know people who do really get stuck and they're in a Plateau and nothing's really changing for them at all. Their body composition stalled out. Be open to new things. So become your own self experimentation. So let's say you've been doing paleo for a while. Okay, maybe let's look into something like keto and see if that's an approach that might work, might be optimal for our bodies because we don't know until we try it. So do your research first and then give it a good 30 to 60 days minimum of consistency before you make a judgment on it. And then also be open to new forms of exercise that you've never done before. So some people are like, oh yeah, if I run, it used to help me get lean and skinny back in the day. But maybe you're older now and maybe you need to incorporate more heavy lifting, resistance training to help build that lean muscle mass, help with bone density. And so be open to new things, whether it's a nutritional protocol, an exercise program. Don't just get stuck in that mindset of, oh, this used to work for me, so it should work for me now, but it's not working. So be open and become your own self experimentation.

So you talked about ketogenic diet, so let's dive a little bit into it and also compare with various forms of fasting, including intermittent fasting, which I think you also offer as a program. So simplistically, I think of the ketogenic diet as a low carb, high fat diet which allows your body to burn fat instead of glucose as a primary source of fuel. And there are a host of benefits that come with the ketogenic state. And this is besides the fact that our ancestors had to eat that way. You know, cavemen had no refrigerators, there were no convenience stores or food available 24 7, which, you know, convenience is really at the root of a lot of the nutritional evil that we see in society. We have been evolving over the last, I don't know, a hundred thousand years to eat in a certain way. It is a certainty that our bodies are well adapted to this lifestyle, right? But over the last 50 to 100 years, we have bombarded it with highly refined sugars, foreign chemicals we call foods such as MSG and artificial colors and so on. So first of all, start with the basics. Walk us through a typical ketogenic diet and, you know, maybe you can draw some parallels into what I just described as far as what our ancestors used to see.

Yeah, definitely. So for like, like we mentioned in the beginning, different things work for different people. So there's no one Set protocol that works for everybody, but just be open to experimenting with yourself. But what I found helping thousands of people on the keto diet is generally a 70% fat, 25% protein, 5% protocol tends to work for most people. So 70% of your calories are coming from fat. So things like coconut oil and avocado oil and whole eggs and feta, cuts of meat and heavy creams and full fat cheeses, butter, those types of healthy fats are the majority of your calories. And then 25% is protein. So not as much as people think, because people think, oh, keto is kind of like Atkins in a way. Yes, it's low carb, but Atkins was more of a high protein, high fat. To get into ketosis, you really need to moderate the amount of protein you have. It's not as much as people think, because your body can convert protein into glucose. So you do need to be careful, but everyone's threshold is going to be different. And then keeping your carbs 5% or less of your total calories, for example, and that tends to work for most people. But here's the thing. Shifting over from glucose, which most of us have been running off of our whole lives, to all of a sudden now your body's producing ketones. There's no glucose available, which your body likes as a fast bur. You chug the soda, you eat some chips, you'll instantly feel some energy, right? But when you kind of tell your body, okay, no more glucose, now we're going to make ketones and run off that your body kind of goes into this mode of it doesn't know what to do, it's not efficient at using ketones yet. So people just need to be patient with themselves as they transition over from glucose to ketones. And sometimes they can experience the keto flu. Now, here's a few tips for people who are just starting out with this is one, to avoid the keto flu, you need to drink a lot more water than normal. Your body's going to flush a lot of water initially on the keto diet, so you need to be replenishing a lot more water than you normally would. And then second thing is also to add in a lot of electrolytes, so salts, sea salt, pink Himalayan salt, sodium, potassium, magnesium, sometimes you need to supplement with some of those minerals as well. And that will hopefully get rid of any keto flu symptoms that you might feel during that transition, because most of it's just a lack of those electrolytes and kind of paralleling back to what you were saying our bodies, our ancestors have gone through periods of feast or famine and our species has evolved in some areas where there was no vegetation at all, so we had to live off of animal meats just to survive. And our bodies are adapted to that, eating the whole animal. But sometimes with no carbohydrates, our bodies can dip into a state of ketosis. But in our 21st century lifestyle, we can have food at the convenience anytime we want. It's hard to tell people, hey, eating this much fat, eating maybe twice a day or three times a day, or even sometimes once a day, you'll be okay, you're not going to die.

Yeah, no, that's definitely it. You know, encourage the audience to really read as much as possible. Understanding your site has has a lot of information about the health benefits of ketogenic lifestyle. I've certainly done intermittent ketogenic diets and I know exactly what you mean by the keto flu. It's that adaptation period and your body will get better at adapting to brains. It's like a car running on gasoline and you want to switch that to diesel. You know, it takes a while for enzymes need to be produced properly and there's just this hardware change that needs to happen. So you have to be willing to give it an adaptation period and not become discouraged if it doesn't work the first try.

Exactly.

Now, I guess together with the ketogenic lifestyle, let's talk about the intermittent fasting, because there's a lot of parallels and people can try either or both or go back and forth between them. How do you see the difference or the main differences between intermittent fasting versus keto and what's your approach to the whole idea?

Yeah, so when I first started out with keto, I actually did intermittent fasting one because I just wasn't as hungry as often. Right. I didn't feel the need to eat every three hours like I was eating before. Right. Every three hours, you know, six meals a day meal prepping, bringing my meals with me and shifting over to keto. It was really easy to kind of do intermittent fasting at the same time because eating that much fat, you're going to feel satiated for so much longer than you normally would. So you could go longer periods between meals. I just think people need to realize and not freak out thinking they're going to lose their gains or their muscle mass if they're not eating every three hours. I promise you ketones are very protein sparing, so you don't need to worry about losing your lean muscle mass when you're in a state of ketosis. Now, with intermittent fasting, some people do it without a ketogenic protocol, which is fine. And there's still some health benefits to doing intermittent fasting even if you're not doing keto. I think for longevity anti aging cell regeneration, intermittent fasting is great for your body whether you choose to do keto or not. But some people use it as an excuse to eat junk food, which I'm not a fan of, and that's not how I teach it. But some people do still see benefits as far as their body composition goes, their physique goes, and unfortunately our society thinks, okay, well as long as I have a six pack, then I'm healthy. But in reality that's not true. So I try and teach people how to do it with a whole foods approach to intermittent fasting. But it doesn't need to be keto if you're doing intermittent fasting to receive some of the benefits. Now, if you can combine those two, I think it's synergistic and it's more powerful. But let's say you try keto is not for you. That's fine, try intermittent fasting, but maybe with a paleo approach. So real whole food instead of just eating whatever you want to within those two short meals or that eight hour feeding window. So it just depends on the person. But I'm a big fan of real whole food, nutrient dense food, rather than just if it fits your macros.

Yeah, no, I totally agree. Dr. Jason Fung, he's a nephrologist, you probably know him. He's part of the site dietdoctor.com, i highly encourage people to search up his name, watch his YouTubes, and he does a beautiful job of explaining how it wouldn't make any sense for our body to burn protein as a main source of fuel. If our evolution has taught our body to store fats when we need to burn energy, when you need to use energy, and therefore that's what our body is made to do, we shouldn't be afraid of it. Now, there might be a little bit of a switching period in their charts where you can really get deep into this, but at a high level. Like you said, stored fat is what is going to be burned if you reduce carbs and certainly if you go in a fast. I'm curious, Drew, what is your current protocol? You know, it's okay if you don't want to get into details, but, you know, how often do you do intermittent fasting? How often do you go into a ketogenic diet. What's your current state?

Yeah, so my current state and it kind of switches. I like to switch things up. But currently I've been experimenting with intermittent fasting where I'm doing almost a 24 hour fast and eating one meal a day, Monday through Friday. So, so I'll wake up and I'll have just black coffee. I do take exogenous ketones. We can save that for another discussion. And then I'll do other liquids like bone broth. I'm okay with powdered greens. I'm okay with during the fasting period as well. And then around 3 or 4pm and then I'll have my one main meal. Now I don't eat it all in five minutes, right. It takes a long time to try and eat 2,000 to 3,000 calories sometimes depending on the way I'm eating. But it is keto ish. I can probably get away with more carbs than most people, so I'm probably getting in between 50 to 60 grams of carbs in that one meal. But I still am able to maintain a state of ketosis because that's my one meal for the day and I have more lean muscle mass and I'm pretty active with my lifestyle. And so I've noticed some tremendous benefits. My cognitive function is even better than when I was doing two meals a day and then on Saturday, Sunday, because if I continue to do that for too long, I feel like a little bit drained. Right. And it's kind of exhausting eating that much in one meal and then just being kind of really full after that one meal to where I don't feel like moving for a while. So Saturday, Sunday, kind of go back to my basic protocol, which is what I've been doing probably for the past two years before this, where I have bulletproof coffee in the morning and then I'll have lunch and then I'll have dinner. And those are mostly keto friendly type of meals. Now I am a dad of two daughters and they're six and eight and we like to have fun. And so I will dip out of ketosis for pizza night or birthday cake or sometimes we'll just. I don't feel the need to be so strict all the time and live in this extreme world. So I do try and live a balanced lifestyle. But I've been seeing some great benefits with that Monday through Friday protocol of a 24 hour fast. And then Saturday, Sunday, kind of going back to a bulletproof coffee plus two meals on Saturday and Sunday Just because it's a little bit more relaxed and more doable. And so I've known some great benefits in the gym with my lean muscle mass. I've actually been able to put on some strength and some size with my lean muscle mass. And so that's kind of what I'm currently experimenting with and I'm liking it.

Do you also do any yearly fasts for several days at a time? Do you try that or no?

Yeah. So last year was the first time I did an extended fast and I did seven days which was an awesome experience. It was a little bit long for someone that started at 9% body fat. I feel like seven days was like the seventh day was really hard for me. But I think once a year or twice a year doing a three to five day fast is ideal. And I feel like for me we talk about cleanses in the fitness industry all the time. This was by far the best cleanse I've ever done. Just no food, water, only water and sea salt and a little bit of bone broth each day and that was it. I've never felt better in my entire life after those seven days of fasting. So yes, once or twice a year I'm actually going to be doing a three day fast next week that I'll be announcing on my social media that people can join me if they want to do it together. Yes, I'm a big fan of extended fasting and, and speaking of Dr. Jason Fung, his book the Complete Guide to Fasting with Jimmy Moore is a great read if you want to learn about extended fasts and how to do them. But definitely do your research first. Don't just don't jump into it and down a whole pizza and say, okay, I'm going to do what Drew did. I'm going seven days without food. I better stock up before.

I agree wholeheartedly with all that you said. Jason is a great resource and people should learn the benefits and some of the drawbacks and some of the, the normal issues with like you mentioned keto flu and also the fact that for the second or third day of a fast, the hunger hormone gremlin will spike up and therefore you should experience probably most hunger during that depending on the body in second through the fourth day. But then it stabilizes and it goes down. If you look at the data, which makes it easier, you know, as you, as you go through a fast, but everybody's different and you know, you starting out with already at a ketogenic state already with a low body fat, it will Have a certain reaction. Your metabolism is already set to a certain adaptation level and it will be different for everybody. A friend of mine just did her first fast and she's 65 years old, she's a bit overweight. She did her first fast and she feels awesome on the third day. And, you know, surprised me. He said, wow, that is, you know, I kind of told her, this is a. You might not like the first time you try it, but, you know, the beauty about fasting is you can always stop. You're not starving. You know, we have food available, and if it becomes bad enough, you just eat something and then try again, you know, a few days later or a few weeks later. And that's not a big problem.

Yeah, I think, you know, just looking into it more like it freaks us out because our society has been so ingrained in this. Three meals a day, otherwise you're gonna, you know, you're gonna get sick or it's bad for you. But, but man, you look back at older civilizations and even for different religions, fasting has been around for centuries. Right. And so there's a lot of health benefits to it. It's just do it smart. Right. Like I said, don't just jump into it. Definitely do your research first and see if it's right for you. And I think a lot of our society could benefit from fasting. Intermittent fasting and extended fasting too.

Well, excellent. Drew. I know we're coming up to the end of the interview. I wanted to ask you if, if you can share some links and any more information that people can go look into to learn more about your programs and so on.

Yes. So my website is fit number2fat2fit.com and on there you can find all my programs. Social media is all the same. Fit number two Fat number two fit, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. My book is also called Fit two Fat two Fit. My podcast, just type in Fit to Fit, you'll find it. And then my TV show is Fitto Fat to Fit. If you want to check that out on A and E, season one's out there on demand. And then my. If you want to try my keto program, it's keto.fit2fat2fit.com but you should also be able to find it on the website as well.

Well, excellent. Drew Manning, New York Times best selling author, host of the hit TV show Fit 2 Fat 2 Fit. Drew, you have a good day. Okay?

Obrigado.

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