LS 156 - Diet For a New America Part 2 with Ocean Robbins

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Welcome to the Longevity Show. Informing listeners on the important aspects of health, wealth and happiness to ensure you live life to its fullest. With fascinating interviews with top authors and gurus in the field. Along with the latest news in the science and technology of longevity, we're going to reveal expert advice and amazing secrets of living a longer. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman.

It's my pleasure to welcome Ocean Robbins, who is co founder and CEO of the 500,000 plus member Food Revolution Network and author of the new book, the 31 Day Food Revolution. Heal youl Body, Feel Great and Transform youm World. And we're gonna talk today about the connection between food and the world in general. Ocean, welcome. How are you?

I'm thrilled to be with you right now and thrilled to be able to talk about food and health, which is my great passion.

Well, it's great to have you and give our listeners a sense of geography. Where are you located?

I'm in Santa Cruz, California.

Fantastic. Well, you know, I read John Robbins book many years ago, Diet for a New America. I guess you are affiliated or you've worked on some of this stuff together, right?

Yeah, we're affiliated, of course. He's my dad and we're also co founders of Food Revolution Network. In case participants don't already know a bit of the family story. My grandpa founded Baskin Robbins Ice Cream Company.

And you had an ice cream shaped swimming pool.

Well, there you go. Yeah. My dad was groomed to one day join and running that company. And then when he was in his early 20s, he was offered that chance and he said no. And he walked away from a path that was practically paved with gold and ice cream to, as we jokingly say in our family. He followed his own rocky road, ended up moving with my mom to a little island off the coast of Canada where they built a one room log.

Cabin and they grew their own food and everything.

Yeah, yeah. And they named their kid Ocean, of course as well. So fast forward a few years. My dad and I launched Food Revolution Network together. He'd become a best selling author writing about food and health. And I wanted to help take this message out to the masses and reach a new generation. So we've teamed up.

From John's book, have there been any major updates or changes? I was really into Diet for New America many years ago in my 20s. You know, I thought it was great. I mean, the things he Pointed out the link between cancer and the environment and virtually every terrible disease that people get nowadays because their eating choices are so bad and the food supply is just poisoned. Has anything changed?

Yeah, the big thing that Diet for New America brought into the world on a massive scale, and that was my dad's first and most popular best selling book, the biggest thing it brought into the world was this recognition that our food choices have a profound impact on our health and also on the health of our planet. And I think that what's changed is that we have a lot more data now to back that up, to be honest with you. We now know that the industrialized diet is the single biggest consumer impact we have on climate change. We know now that not only is food implicated in causing heart disease, but also cancer, type 2 diabetes, the obesity epidemic has increased dramatically and it's still being fueled by the food on our plates. The other thing that's changed is that I think knowledge has split, spread, but action hasn't changed to keep up. We know a lot about food and health. Everyone knows they need to eat more vegetables. Everyone knows they need to eat less sugar and process junk. But we're not all acting on what we know. I wrote 31 Day Food Revolution because I want to make that bridge so to help everybody to put what they know into action. Because at the end of the day, cancer doesn't care a heck of a lot how many books you've read or podcasts you've listened to or seminars you've attended, but it definitely cares what you eat. And so I want to help empower everybody with that knowledge and these tools to implement it. That's why every single chapter ends with an action step you can take to put all that you've learned into delicious, healthy and immediate action in your life. And there's 31 chapters in my book because I say 31 steps to health will bring you more satisfaction even than 31 flavors of ice cream.

Yeah, yeah. Really, really true. I know there's obviously a lot of personal choice in all this stuff. And you're saying everyone knows you need to eat more veget, less processed junk. I absolutely agree with you, Ocean, but it's the corporatocracy, the food industrial complex, that is killing us. I think, you know, a lot of this stuff, the good stuff, has just been pushed out to large degree. And, you know, it must all just be money and economics for them, right?

There's a lot of money being made from the status quo. Certain companies are making a killing off of our sickness to be honest with you. And not only is the processed food industry profiting from serving us foods that are making us sick, but then the medical industry is making quite a bit of money treating the symptoms of disease.

Yeah, yeah. Unbelievable amounts of money. I've always wondered, has anyone maybe like yourself discovered an actual connection between the food poison industry and the medical treatment industry that is profiting from the food poison industry? These food companies, for example, own stock in cancer treatment centers. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

There aren't doctors out there being like, oh, I'm not going to tell anybody about food because I want to make money off of sick patients. But there's a kind of willful neglect that takes place when there's money to be made from the status quo. And we really do have a medical industry that's now 19% of our gross domestic product in the United States. We're talking trillions of dollars that are being spent on disease symptom management. And the average physician in all their years of medical school gets only 19 hours of nutritional education, none of which is focused on how to help patients eat well. You know, and I know that food is the foundation of health. And for most people, tragically, it's also the foundation of disease. And yet doctors are at best treating it like an afterthought. And I don't think that's because they are staying up all night trying to figure out how to make their patients sick. I think that there's a neglect because quite frankly, there's a lot more money and a lot more attention paid to medicines and high tech surgeries. And I'll tell you what, if doctors got paid for prescribing broccoli like they get paid for prescribing chemo, we'd see more broccoli eaten. There's no question about it.

We sure would. But it's more above the doctors. You know, it's the big companies. It's like, you know, an individual doctor I'm sure doesn't have any big agenda. You know, they're not necessarily personally profiting from this. It's more the industry or at least at the corporate level. So, yeah, it's something else. Talk to us a little bit ocean about the link you said when we were off air before we started, we talked for a moment and you talked about the, you know, food being a personal choice and the link between food and the political links and so forth. Share that with our audience, if you would.

Sure. Well, you know, food is very personal. What you eat Literally becomes you. But it's also social. It's a connection between humans, and it's also political. It connects you to people and policies and practices all over the planet. And the reality is that how food is grown on the other side of the world impacts you. When it's sprayed with neurotoxic pesticides. Guess who eats those pesticides when it's coming from animals that were tortured in factory farms, there's not just an ethical impact from the way the animals were treated. There's also an impact on your health because of hormones and antibiotics that may have been full of and the way that that impacts you in your life. So these things all interconnect. And at the end of the day, if you want a healthy world, if you want an ethical world, if you want a more sustainable and sane and beautiful world, then one of the most powerful steps you can take is to eat less animal products and not support the pesticide industry. So choosing to go organic and choosing to eat lower on the food chain make a profound impact not just on your health, which it's very good for, but also on how many toxins and pollutants are in our environment and how much water and topsoil we will have to grow food for future generations. The reality is that the industrialized farming system is incredibly unsustainable, and it's wreaking havoc on our planet, and it's also wreaking havoc on our health. So when I call for a food revolution, I'm saying, look, this is one revolution you can fight with your knife and fork and everybody wins. You win, animals win, and quite frankly, your planet wins.

Okay, so explain to the audience. I mean, I learned this when I read your father's book years ago. Eating lower on the food chain. Eat low on the food chain. What does that mean?

You know, what it means is that if the food chain is basically that an animal eats a plant and then another animal eats that animal, and the higher you go up the food chain, the more you concentrate any pathogens that may have been eaten down lower in the food chain. So, for example, fish that consume smaller, fish that consume smaller, fish that consume algae, they can be at the top of very long food chain sometimes, and then they concentrate mercury and PCBs and various heavy metals in their fatty tissues, which means that if you eat certain fish, like shark or swordfish, you're going to get a massive dose of toxins, which is why it's often recommended to not eat certain fish. And the same is true with land based Animals as well, particularly when they're not fed an organically produced diet. So eating lower on the food chain from a toxicity standpoint means eating more foods directly that haven't concentrated pathogens in their bodies. But it also has a significant impact on our ability to feed future generations. Because it takes about 12 pounds of grain to produce 1 pound of feedlot beef. It takes about 4 or 5 pounds of grain or soy to produce a pound of flesh from chicken or pig. The rest is essentially being wasted. It's turned into hoof and hide and bone and feathers and manure. And it's energy that's expended by the animal as it lives and breathes. And so if you're concerned about future generations having food to eat, we need to realize that livestock is essentially a protein factory in reverse. It's taking our protein and wasting most of it. And if we want to feed future generations and have a sustainable planet, then eating lower on the food chain, eating more plant based, is a powerful step you can take.

So the lowest you can eat on the food chain is a vegetable, because the vegetable didn't eat anything to grow. It just grew out of the earth and you eat it. And so you're eating very low, the lowest you can on the food chain, right?

Exactly. Yep.

Fantastic.

It just so happens that a more whole foods plant based diet based around unprocessed whole plant foods is not only the best food for the world food supply and helping save farmland to grow food for people, it's also the best for your health. These same foods turn out to be the most potent fighters against cancer and diabetes and obesity and Alzheimer's and heart disease. And that is such wonderful news, Jason, because it means that we get to make a choice for our integrity. And it has a positive impact kind of across the board.

Yeah, it definitely does. After reading your dad's book, I remember my girlfriend at the time gave it to me and it really did change my thinking a lot in a great way. I did become pretty much vegetarian for about six years, and then, I must admit, I gave it up. My thinking now, though, is that first of all, when we look back a hundred years from now and we look at the way we produced animal food today, I think we will be absolutely disgusted with ourselves. We'll think, what a bunch of barbarians that lived back in 2018 and the way they produced meat. I mean, that was just barbaric, and it has been for decades and decades now. But I have a theory about meat and animal products. Tell me what you think of this it's totally my own theory. I have no idea if it's. It says it has no big scientific research, but here it is. Basically. When we were, you know, primitive peoples, catching and eating an animal was a very rare occurrence. Because it's hard to catch an animal. Right. You know, that's a very difficult thing to hunt, especially with the primitive equipment with a spear, you know, and a few tribesmen, you know, or cavemen that they had back then to do it versus eating vegetables was really easy. You could just live off the land, so to speak. So meat was a rare thing and it was maybe a celebration, it was a special occasion versus three times a day. Right. You know, so if someone listening isn't gonna say, hey, I'm not gonna become a vegan, and, you know, I'll just tease the subject for a moment. I'm not gonna be a hippie. Okay. You know, there's just a healthy, logical thing here. It's definitely better to eat low on the food chain. There's no question about it. I think we eat way too much meat. Dramatically too much meat. I do honestly think we are omnivores, though. It's just my own opinion. But the meat should be a rare occurrence, a special occasion, if you will.

Yeah, I mean, if you look at the history of humanity, people have always eaten whatever they could find in their particular ecosystem and time of year. So down through history, people ask, you know, what did people eat in Paleolithic times? It depends where in the world they lived and what season it was. But when we look at our Paleolithic ancestors, one thing we can see is that they ate a lot of fiber. In fact, modern estimates are that on average they got around 100 grams of fiber per day. Now the average amount, 15 grams of fiber per day, and the recommended daily allowance is about 30. So the average American is getting about half what they should. About 5% of our population is getting the recommended amount. We think that our ancestors got on average about three times the recommended amount. Now, let's be clear here where fiber is coming from. It's coming from whole plant foods. There is absolutely none in any animal products. None whatsoever. So, in fact, people who are on the so called Paleo diet are often eating a lot of animal products, when the reality is that's probably not how it went down for our ancestors. But, you know, whatever our ancestors ate, I mean, they ate a lot of bugs and grubs and stuff most of us wouldn't be caught dead eating today. So let's look at what's best for us now, I think. And when you look at the data, you know, there's a decent case to be made for going totally plant based. And there's a decent case to be made for 5 or 10% of your calories coming from animal products. And at the end of the day, I think each of us needs to find out what makes sense for us in this context. But the average American gets 34% of their calories from animal products. So my basic perspective is less meat or no meat. And if you're going to eat meat, then better meat going pasture, raised from animals that were treated decently, that saw the sun, that ate grass, if they are grass eaters, that pecked around in the dirt, if they're birds, and choose the humane and ethical direction there because it's better for your conscience and frankly, it's also better for your health. But the big picture is we need to eat a whole lot more vegetables. And almost anybody who's paying any attention to the medical literature will agree on that point.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Is there anything else you want us to know about vegetables? What vegetables in particular? How to eat, what to cook?

Sure. Well, I love vegetables.

Me too. I love them. They're great. You know, I'll tell you, ocean. Whenever I'm feeling like I'm getting sick or getting a cold and I just have been sick, I rarely get sick anymore. But it got me the other day, you know, if I eat vegetables, it's like, it's like a superfood. It's amazing how it just helps me recover so much more quickly. Vegetables are amazing. I'm glad I liked them. You know, some people don't like them. For some odd reason, they don't like the taste of them. I think they taste wonderful.

They're a bit of an acquired taste. It takes some getting used to. But, you know, your taste buds regenerate in as little as a couple of weeks. I mean, if you've ever burned your tongue, you can see how quickly your tongue recovers. So your taste buds are constantly replenishing. And what this means is that they can actually change. And your habits can change pretty quickly. You know, the way I look at it, at the end of the day, what charts your destiny isn't so much your passion or your big ideas. It's what you actually do day in and day out. It's your habits. Kind of like when it rains, water flows in gullies and eventually over time, they become deeper grooves. And over time they can become creeks and Rivers. So the key use of willpower, I think, is to establish healthy habits. And one of the most healthy habits you can ever establish is to eat lots of vegetables. So learn how to prepare them, learn ways to enjoy them. Steam them, chop them, put them through a food processor into a salad. Try them baked and grilled. Try them in different ways. Make them the main dish. Stop thinking of vegetables as a side and start thinking about them as the centerpiece. You may want to be eating two or three pounds of vegetables a day if you're really aiming for optimal health. But it takes a bit of time to get there. Most people don't get there overnight. So celebrate your successes. I have lots of tips in my books for ways to really enjoy vegetables and bring them into your family. You can blend them up into smoothies. You can add them even to pasta sauce. Add a little blended vegetables right in there. You can just curry over steamed zucchini or broccoli instead of over rice. Try adding them to just about everything. And know that you're taking a stand for your health every time you do that.

Very good point. Tell us more about what you said about the taste buds. I mean, we gotta wrap up soon, but taste buds regenerate. So for people to act like they're fixed, you know, I don't like vegetables. Right. Or if someone says that, you know, we are not fixed and set right, we can change what we like. Right? I mean, we all know this because when we were kids, we liked different things than we do today. Most kids hate most everything except junk. Yet adults like good food, you know, mostly. And our taste buds do change over long periods of time. We know that. But you said in. In just a couple of weeks. Tell us more about that.

Yeah, well, you know, I think that painful pushes, envision pulls. So some of us are motivated to make big changes by fear of disease. Others are motivated by the health and the vitality that we want. You know, I'm not going to lie to you. I think that donuts probably taste better to most people than broccoli does. But at the end of the day, there's not a lot of pleasure to be had from cancer or not remembering the names of your loved ones because you've got dementia or frankly, being too heavy to dance and play and run. So if you really want to love your life, then I say learn to love foods that love you back. And that will happen. If you learn to love them, they will love you back. And you can learn to love them. It takes a bit of time and attention but it'll happen. And so take one step at a time. Don't make the perfect into the enemy of the good. We don't need more fear and more self hate around food. We need more love and positivity. Take some time to let yourself salivate. Take a few moments before you start eating to just take in the sense let yourself begin to have a relationship with the digestion begins the moment you think about food, the moment you smell it, not just the moment that it gets to your stomach. You literally secrete juices in your stomach in response to that expectation. So let yourself enjoy it. Bring more pleasure into your life and your food life, especially with the healthy foods that are good for you.

Yeah, that's a great point and I don't want to just pass over what you just said. The digestion begins when you smell the food. And the problem with the way most of us eat today is we don't prepare food anymore. We don't smell food, we don't make it an activity. And that is really part of eating better is making that an activity. Smelling the food, preparing it and that component of it, rather than just eating something out of a box. Very important.

Beautiful. Yep. And I just want to say again, I wrote 31 Day Food Revolution to help everyone put this all into action. And I'm so excited that it's available. And so anyone listening, you can go ahead and grab it from your local bookstore or buy it online or go to 31day foodrevolution.com and order your copy or your copies for friends and loved ones. And this will help you put it all into action and take your place in this food revolution.

Fantastic. Ocean Robbins, thanks for joining us.

Thank you.

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