LS 78 – “Rewild Yourself, Rewild the Planet” with Daniel Vitalis

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Our great podcasts, visit hartmanmedia.com welcome to the Longevity Show. Informing listeners on the important aspects of health, wealth and happiness to ensure you live life to its fullest. With fascinating interviews with top authors and gurus in the field, along with the latest news in the science and technology of longevity, we're going to reveal expert advice and amazing secrets of living a longer. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman. My pleasure to welcome Daniel Vitalis to the show. He is the founder of Rewild Yourself, Rewild the Planet. He's a leading health and nutrition and personal development strategist. And I think he's going to talk to us about some really interesting stuff today in terms of survival, health, avoiding degenerative diseases and so forth. Daniel, welcome. How are you?

Thanks so much for having me on the show today. I really appreciate it and really appreciate everybody who's taking the time to listen today.

My pleasure. You've got some really interesting work, interesting websites. What got you interested in this whole field?

When I was a teenager still, when I was about 15 years old, I had this question in my mind and it had been ruminating for many, many years. The question was, what's natural for people to do? I mean, what I was seeing was I could tell that the way we were living was very unnatural for us. And I was starting to notice at a young age that it seemed like it was we were fighting our own nature and repressing ourselves. And it seemed to me it was making us sick. And I knew that there was something wrong with the food we were eating, the way we were living. And I had this question, what is a natural diet for people? Look like I grew up during that era where we had sort of in schools left behind the Bible teaching had moved into this Darwinian teaching. And the teaching I was getting was, you're an animal, you're an animal that lives on planet Earth. And I thought, well, if I'm an animal, then don't I have a natural diet like all the other animals? And if so, what is it? And that really a health quest, just seeking out what natural food was. And I've arrived at some really fascinating conclusions. And I think those conclusions can do a lot for anybody who's listening. It could do a lot for their health and to disease proofing them for a lifetime so that they can really live out their true potential. Because what I see is happening is that human domestication, not just, you know, very similar to Plant domestication or animal domestication, Human domestication is leading to a lot of degeneration in our physiology. It's making us sick. And so when I say rewilding, I don't mean for people to go live out in a teepee. But I do think that each of us can bring a little bit more of our natural instinct into play and a little bit more of our natural way of life into play for our health and for our vitality.

So is this the same? I mean, in terms of the diet aspect of what you do and what you recommend, is this the same as the Paleo diet?

Let me break down for a second the difference. The Paleo diet is this brilliant idea. I love this idea. But, but here's one of the challenges that I see in it. The Paleo diet assumes that what's natural for us is what our European Paleolithic ancestors were doing. But the truth is human beings live all over the planet, right? Not just in Neolithic Europe. So human beings are adapted to lots of different climates and lots of different extremes. So there are people who are very adapted to jungle like environments. And their diet would have been very different from the Paleolithic Europeans, if that makes sense. But another big difference is this. When we hear about all these different diets, we hear about the Paleo diet, we hear about the south beach diet, we hear about the vegan diet, the vegetarian diet, the raw food diet, there's all these different diets out there. This is what's most fascinating about them. They're all rearrangements of the same groups of food. And all those foods are found in supermarkets. Now here's what's fascinating. Almost every single food, there's very few exceptions, almost every food in your supermarket is a non natural food. In other words, it can't be found growing in nature. You might ask yourself sometime, hey, how come I've never been walking in the woods and bumped into a wild cabbage? How come I've never walked in the woods and I've ran into a broccoli, right? These things don't actually exist in nature. What they are, are mutated plants, mutated animals that we've domesticated out of wild animals. Now here's where we come back to this Paleo idea. The Paleo diet assumes that they're creating the diet like our ancestors ate. But the problem is the foods that they use are not the foods our ancestors had. None of them existed. A lot of people don't realize the yellow banana that they eat was invent the 1800s. It's a sterile clone. Right. So every banana that you eat is a sterile clone. It's a plant that cannot reproduce sexually anymore. Those little black spots we see in the center of the banana, that's sterile seed remnants, and the plant is always a clone. So if I said, hey, Jason, you want to come over tonight, we're going to have some cloned cow for dinner, you'd say, you know, man, I'm really not interested probably in the cloned cow. But we eat cloned apples, we eat cloned bananas. All of the fruits that we're eating, eating in our civilization today are clones. They're mostly sterile. And interestingly, they're not found in nature. So these are domesticated organisms. Our diets differ a lot from the diets of our ancestors in that most of the foods we eat can't be found in nature.

Wow. What is found? So you recommend we eat what's found in nature?

Well, here's what I think. I think we're in a position now where most of us are not in a place where we're going to run outside and start foraging our food from nature. Not an option for most people. Now, it's something that I love to do, but I can't do it exclusively. So I do a lot of that. But let me go a little deeper into this for a second. If I sent you out to your yard right now and I said, hey, go grab some dandelion greens and bring them inside and let's eat them, what would happen is it'd be easy probably for you to identify those dandelion greens. You'd bring them in, we'd eat them, and we'd notice that there was a distinct flavor that we don't usually notice in our supermarket vegetables. And that would be bitter. Right? That makes sense, right? Because most wild plants are very bitter. Now, most of the plants we buy at the supermarket, let's take our lettuces as an example. Not very bitter. Not very bitter at all. Wild plants are very bitter because wild plants contain bitter medicine. These are called alkaloids. These alkaloids are the herbal medicines that are in wild plants now today. Follow me on this one because I think this is an important point. The wild plants that we used to eat contained bitter flavors because there were medicinal components in those plants. The plants that we breed for our food supply today have been bred to remove all the bitter flavors. And that essentially means we've removed all the medicinal compounds. Now, here's the fascinating thing. Check this out. If there's no medicine left in our Food supply, and human beings have evolved or adapted or were created. However you want to say that we come from an environment that's rich in plant medicines. Our ancestors, tribal people, traditional people all over the world, ate all these plants every day that had medicine. That means that our diet today is deficient in medicine. There's no medicine left in it. What happens is people are. Even if they eat what looks like a very natural diet, they have a medicine deficiency. That's why so many people have to turn to pharmaceutical medicine. The thing about pharmaceutical medicine is most pharmaceuticals come from plants. They either are taken directly from plants or they're synthesized from plant compounds. What happens is people eat a domesticated diet deficient in medicine, they get sick, and then they end up going to pharmaceuticals. What's so great when we start to go towards more natural foods is that there's medicines in natural foods and we can start to actually heal ourselves at that deep genetic level because our bodies are really adapted to natural foods. Yes, it's challenging for a lot of people to get out and go forage wild plants, but what we can do is start eating foods that are closer to their wild state and also using herbs and herbalism to sort of replace those medicines that used to be in our diet.

So, I mean, are we going. I mean, nobody will want to eat these foods, though, right? Because they'll taste so bad.

Dr. Well, let me give you an example of some of the great wild plants you could find at your supermarket. Let's say you went to your supermarket and you found maple syrup. Maple syrup is the blood or the SAP of wild maple trees. That's a food that the Native American people adapted to here in North America? I mean, how amazing. That's a wild food. How about if we went to the supermarket, we went to the frozen food section, and we found blueberries there. We found wild, frozen blueberries. We'd be dealing with a wild berry in its natural state compared against, say, something like the banana, which is a sterile clone invented in the 1800s. This is an ancient food, the blueberry, and it's a food that's very good for us. And its sugar profiles and its oil profiles and its antioxidant profiles are the same as the one that's found in nature. So that's a ancestral food. How about wild rice, which we can find in our supermarket, which is still largely harvested by Native American people out in the Great Lakes region? That's a wild grain. It doesn't have those high gluten contents that cause so many of the Allergies people are suffering from today, from eating these extremely hybridized wheats and oats and these genetically modified corns. It's an ancestral food. My point is there's a lot of food actually available to us. Many of the fishes that we get today are still wild from the sea, still int wild, just like the ones we ate ancestrally. Now, the thing is, the more we domesticate and the more we farm food, the deeper we take it into this domestication place and the sicker people get. And we can see that. The great intermediary, though, I think, is that people initially, especially if they eat a very standard American diet, most important thing they can do is just start moving towards organic foods, start going to farmers markets and actually getting food that's locally produced and bringing a little bit of herbalism into their life in the form of teas or tinctures. Very simple things we can do to. To begin getting some plant medicine back into our lives. Because otherwise what ends up happening is we have that medicine deficiency I mentioned and we end up needing to turn to pharmaceuticals.

Bananas invented in the 1800s. I did not know this. Are they good for you or bad for you? I mean, everybody says bananas are good for you.

This is a great question. Now, the banana itself is not invented in the 1800s. The Cavendish banana, the yellow banana we grew up with, was. So here's what happened, if you can imagine, all the way back into prehistory, let's say in India, where bananas were first cultivated. There we find the wild banana. Now, the wild banana is just a bit bigger than your thumb. And if you cut it open, you'd notice that it was completely filled up with seeds and there was very little flesh in it. And the flesh that would be in that banana would need to be cooked in order to be edible. That's the wild banana. The banana we have today has been blimped up, over inflated, hyper sugared, and is actually a very sick plant. In fact, there's a lot of people concerned that that yellow banana we eat today won't survive into the next century because of all the diseases that are attacking this plant now. Doctor, because it's such a weak one.

This banana today, the yellow one, is it good for you or bad for you?

You know, it's like, it depends. If you're eating at McDonald's every day, then I think the banana would be great for you. But if you're looking to take your diet to this next level that I'm talking about, which is you anchor in the organic food and Then you anchor in the local food at that point. Here's the question. If you are living in, say, I'm in Maine right now. So here I am, living in Maine. What food makes more sense for me? Food that comes from the soil that I walk on? In other words, locally produced food? Or should I have a sterile cloned fruit, picked unripe, gassed, ripened, and then shipped via truck and plane from South America over the equator up to North America, where I then go into a supermarket and pay 80% markup on it? How healthy will that be for me compared to the foods that are being produced in my environment? So I think the banana is a great step for some people because a lot of us have been raised on extremely processed food, and it's a less processed food. However, it's hardly the ultimate because it's not even coming from the place where most of us live. I mean, not a lot of bananas grown in the U.S. right, right.

But, you know, then again, though, we're not coming from the place we necessarily live either, you know, or live. Everybody's so mobile nowadays. What's the difference? I mean, if you were born in South America, I assume you have bananas on trees, right? Does that mean only South Americans should eat them? Indigenous?

Well, let me go a little deeper into some of my philosophy, because your point is fantastic and an obvious.

Right. And, you know, here's something you can weave into it, because I did a show on GMOs, genetically modified foods. Right. So I guess bananas and broccoli are genetically modified then, even though they were a long, long time ago. So I'd like you to address that, too, but go ahead with one.

They're modified. Those plants are modified at the breeding level. So let me give you an example. I love talking about dogs because dogs are so fascinating. See, every domesticated dog you've ever encountered is a gray wolf. A lot of people do not know that. Every dog, the Chihuahua, the shih tzu, the pit bull, the dachshund, everyone is a gray wolf. The true progenitor of all domesticated dogs is the wild gray wolf. And all dogs are a form of the gray wolf, but they're a mutated form. We didn't do it through direct genetic modification. We did it through breeding. Does that make sense? So when we look at. You just mentioned broccoli. Now here's an interesting thing. Broccoli, kale, collard, cabbage, kohlrabi, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, all of those plants. I just said they're only one plant. That's the same plant.

Wow.

Now, what's so fascinating is the wild plant is something you would walk right by, you wouldn't even recognize it. It's a small weed that's native to Europe. We've mutated it into broccoli, kale, collard, cabbage, collards, all of these plants that we eat. Now, we've mutated it in the same way we've mutated dogs out of the wolf, if that makes sense. Today we're taking it to another level. The genetic engineering, as you know, is where we actually cross species or kingdoms of life at a genetic level. This is a very dangerous game we're playing because all the preliminary research is indicating that those GMOs damage the kidneys, they damage the liver, they damage the reproductive system particularly. So we know that this is taking it even further. But I like to sort of point out, yeah, this has been underway a long time. We've been breeding and changing things. Now, it doesn't mean that it's bad for us all the time. It just means like, hey, let's become aware of it. I'm just saying, let's be aware that we live in a very domesticated world. What I really think, and the reason I name my company Surthrival, is because I believe that we need to thrive in this sort of interesting survival situation we're in on the planet today. And my philosophy is that the best thing you can do is adapt yourself to the environment you're in. So I also travel a lot. In fact, I travel most of the year. What I like to do is when I arrive in an area, I want to acclimate to that area. So I like to find the foods that are local to that area. I like to harvest water from the springs that are local to that area. And we had talked a few minutes ago about findaspring.com which is a website I put together to help people do that. I like to expose myself to the temperatures of the area because most of us live isolated from the weather. We live in a sort of climate controlled, constant 70. What's interesting about wild people and wild animals who don't suffer from any of the degenerative diseases is that they live in an environment where the temperature keeps changing in the day. Day it's hotter and the night it's cooler. No matter where you go on the planet, it's like this. Days are warmer, nights are cooler. It's a cycle where we live in our homes and in our hotels and in our cars. We keep the temperature Almost always the same. It makes our bodies very weak. There's this amazing science emerging right now called epigenetics. What it says is you can influence how your genome expresses itself, you can influence your genetic expression, your body. You can influence your body and physiology by food and environment. So when we eat closer to wild foods, when we drink closer to wild water, when we go out in the soil, when we get barefoot on the ground, when we breathe the natural air from an environment, when we expose ourselves to the hot and cold of an environment, we actually become stronger at the genetic level. This wasn't known until very recently, although it's kind of obvious when you think about it. So, yes, I agree with you. We are moving all over the place. How much does it matter? But how fun is it to acclimate yourself to the Earth instead of to the world? Because there are different things. The world is sort of the artificial reality that we all are living in, in our airports, in our hotels and our homes, in our computers. And the Earth is what's going. Which is the Earth is reality. It's actually what's going on outside of there. So what I like to do is wherever I go, I like to try to get connected to the Earth. And one way I can do that is with the foods that come from that area, with the water that comes from that area, with the temperatures that. And the air that comes from that water. I mean, that environment. And I don't think we need to do that exclus. But I think that we can all bring that in a little bit. And I call that rewilding. And I think that we can become not just healthier than we are now, healthier than most people realize is possible. That's why I do this.

Do you want to explain the difference? Because you're talking about adapting to environments and exposing yourself to local localities. I mean, hey, listen, I'm a big traveler, and whenever I go somewhere, I always drink the local beer. So there's my version of it, but just to get the local flavor, eat the local foods. But, you know, I'm doing it at a much worldly level, not earthly level, as you made that distinction. Do you want to talk about the difference between indigenous and ingenuous?

Oh, I'm not. I'm not familiar with ingenuous.

Well, yeah, you know, I remember on a. On a wildlife tour. Now I can't remember the difference, but there is a difference, because things can be in one place, but I guess not be there.

What indigenous means is occurring naturally in a place. And I like to use the word indigenous in reference to our planet. And here's what I'm saying. I like to tell people, hey, you're indigenous. Because we think indigenous are those, you know, those people in loincloths off in the jungle, right? We think that they're not us, they're the indigenous. We are something else. Now here's what's bizarre about that, is you're actually from Earth and everyone you know is from Earth. In other words, we're indigenous to the planet. Now I want you to imagine that, that classic stereotypical picture of an indigenous person. And then I want you to picture one of the Apollo 13 astronauts. Now picture those side by side and then ask yourself this, does the average hiker or backpacker who's going to go do three or four days in the wilderness look more like the indigenous person or the astronaut? And I think the obvious answer is they look a bit more like the astronaut. Big boots, Gore Tex suit, huge pack.

Helmet, being insulated from the environment to.

The point where they actually begin to believe that their environment is hostile to them. So what's happening is human beings are living today with this perception and one that's being reinforced by media, one that's being reinforced by the medical complex. We start to believe that we are in an environment that's hostile to us. We must battle against the elements, we must fight nature. And if we don't, we might succumb and actually be destroyed or killed by the elements. Right? We might die from exposure to the elements. So we go into nature and much like an astronaut would go to a foreign planet. So the average person going into nature, they see nature as a threat. And this is the big difference between us and what we consider the indigenous people is they see nature as something that they are woven into. And so I love this idea of using food, using water, using acclimatization to begin to reweave ourselves into the environment. And to me, that is the longest, it's the most long term sustainable survival strategy is actually being comfortable and competent on a landscape rather than needing. I love this idea. I watch these people prepare for emergencies or watch people who are preppers. I watch the survivalists store up all like they're going to store 10 years of food up in their house. Let me tell you what happens if you eat that 10 years worth of food. You will get so sick you would break down so completely from malnourishment. We can't live like that. I mean, the army says you can only eat those MREs for 21 days. But people think they can just store up stuff and that's their survival strategy. That's not much of a strategy to me. The real thing is how do we incorporate ourselves back into a natural environment? Simple things we can do, like growing a little bit of our food, learning what plants in our backyard might be edible or useful or medicinal to us, learning where there's natural water sources in your area that you can access. Going outside more. My favorite thing I tell people, if you want to have a good long term survival strategy, start camping. Just start camping. I mean, what better thing could you do for yourself? It's like, you go camping, you are exposing yourself to the natural elements, the natural weather. You're getting outside, you're in, you're in an environment and you're getting to put to practice all of the skills that people want to have in order to feel competent that they can make it through any kind of scenario that they might be presented with. So I think, like, if I was going to give people the ultimate training strategy for survival situations like go camping, and the great thing about that is that is a rewilding process. When we go camping, we're actually rewinding wilding ourselves to some degree.

It's pretty simple. And then, you know, I guess the challenge would be camping time after time. Start using less protective things that insulate you from the environment and getting more and more in touch with nature. That is a great survival skill. No question about it. We were talking about degenerative diseases and you were saying that in the animal kingdom, animals don't suffer from degenerative diseases. And you know, I didn't take issue with you, but I want to now. I mean, certainly animals die, they get sick, you know, even. Even if they're living completely in the wild environment. Right.

Well, okay, so let's make sure that we don't confuse our dogs, our horses, our goats, our sheep.

Fair enough. No, we did totally wild animals, not domestic.

Let's do totally wild animals. So here's the thing. You ever notice, you know, here where I am, I like to watch the squirrels perform feats of acrobatics that exceed anything our Olympians can do. Right? I'll watch squirrels. And I never look and go, oh, that's an old squirrel over there. I can tell he can barely make it. In fact, I've never seen that. Another thing I never see is squirrels with crooked teeth. You know, that's one of those things that you just don't.

But, you know, listen, I'm going to take issue with you here because I don't know of any squirrels that are 200 years old either.

Now, here's the great. Here's the great thing. So you're. You're bringing up a couple of points, so I just want to make sure we don't confuse them. Degenerative disease refers to when the body is actually degenerating, where it's actually breaking down prematurely. Right. This is different than old age. Of course. Animals succumb to old age, and occasionally wild animals are succumbing to disease. But for the most part, they're able to live out their lives until their correct mature age, and then they pass on. And when they pass on, they're not hooked up to oxygen machines limping around, lying in hospital beds. They actually live out a quality of life right to the end that most of us don't get to have anymore. So a lot of people today think that the degenerative diseases are happening now because we're living longer. This is not actually true. So here's what happens. We think that we're living longer today because we're able to keep children alive longer today and more children alive today. And so they don't get factored into the averages. So when you hear these things like, well, our average lifespan used to be 35 years. That's because they're doing averages. And with averages, if you count the infant mortality rate, which used to be much higher, it brings the average age way, way down. Does that make sense? That's not happening today. We're keeping more children alive. It makes it look like we're living longer. We're not. The other thing is, this is not about longevity. This is about degeneration. Degeneration is, again, things like. And let's go back. Actually, when we go all the way back in our fossil records, you know that we don't find cavities. So ancient man, you would think, well, he didn't brush his teeth, didn't have dentists, didn't have braces.

He didn't have Reese's peanut butter cups either.

Exactly. Or white flour or white sugar. He was in the sunlight. He breathed fresh air. He drank fresh water. He ate local fresh foods that were ripely picked. So he had no cavities. In fact, we don't start to see cavities beginning until 10,000 years ago when we start farming and domestication. Not only did our teeth start to develop cavities when we started farming, but actually, do you know that our skeletons shrunk, our brains got smaller? Let me say that Again, our brains got smaller and we started to see arthritis. That was the first stages of degeneration that we saw in our fossil record. The degeneration started when we stopped eating wild foods and we started farming. Over the course of time, as we've taken this to more and more extremes, it's gotten worse and worse. Now it's very common to be born with teeth that don't fit in the mouth anymore. We just ignore that or we just use orthodontic surgery to correct it. But it's a symbol of degeneration. We have arthritis, we have cancer affecting one in three, going on one out of two. We have heart disease, unknown 100 years ago, afflicting half of the population. We have diabetes, we have obesity. These things are not seen in wild animals and they're not seen in indigenous people. I'm not trying to say indigenous people had some kind of Disney style utopian life, but they didn't get these diseases, they didn't suffer from these things. I think most people listening, if they really ask themselves, they're concerned, people feel afraid. They don't understand what cancer is. They're afraid that they could get it. They don't understand heart disease. They're afraid that they could get it.

Yeah, I've done shows more on the conspiratorial angle of this. And these whole industries, like the cancer industry, they talk about the military industrial complex. I mean, there's the western medicine, make you sick so we can try to make you, well, complex. I mean, it's just a, it seems like a scam in so many ways.

It's a scam involving many, many different players. Right, right. It's a lot of players. The medical institution. You know, here's what I think is funny about the doctors today. You know, doctors take what we call the Hippocratic oath, right. So they take an oath to Hippocrates. Hippocrates most famous saying is let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.

Yeah, yeah. You know, you go to a westernized doctor and I, all they're gonna do is prescribe drugs to cover up symptoms. That's never nutrition. I don't know, I gotta say something about this. I don't know who the. And I have many doctor friends, okay. And I think doctors are great. If you're bleeding, if you've got an injury, you need a doctor, a regular western doctor. Sure. But I don't know how our society, how western culture ever confused doctors with health. I don't know why you would ever ask a doctor about what you should eat. They don't know anything about nutrition. I mean, it is mind boggling to me. And you can sense the complete frustration in my voice. It is mind boggling to me that doctors ever became confused with health. They are a repair shop. They are a repair shop. They are not a health shop.

They study disease. Their job is studying disease. They focus on symptoms. And so let's be honest. I mean, the most interesting thing is to me is that Western medicine has never cured anything. There's nothing they've actually cured. Well, they treat certain things.

Let me ask you about that. Okay. And you can. I'll give you time to talk about it. But, you know, I had another guest on my show who was a doctor who really hates Western medicine. Now he got out of that business and he said that same thing. I mean, okay, they didn't cure it, but they vaccinated against polio.

Now you're bringing up a great liquidity. Yeah.

Malaria's virtually gone from Western culture. Many, many things have been, I wanna say cured. Now, maybe you need to define cured, but go ahead if you wanna address that.

One of the amazing things that we learned to do. See, actually, let me go back. Human beings didn't used to live the way they live now in these compact cities and urban environments, right? And when we think about the Third World, we are so miseducated here in the United States that we think the Third World conditions are the conditions that were there and we're there to help. Those Third World conditions were created by colonists. That's not how those people used to live. So they didn't live that way. And they didn't have a lot of those diseases that we see now, like polio, like malaria, in the way that they exist, exist today. Those exist because those people were pushed out of their traditional life way. They were pushed away from their traditional homes and areas for growing food or harvesting food. And they were pushed into conditions that they weren't adapted to. And they got very sick. We saw this happen with the Native Americans when we arrived here, right? And many, many, most of the Native American people on the Eastern seaboard died of European urban diseases. They had never known those.

Dr. Yeah, they didn't have the immunity for themselves.

Right. Now today, these people have in the Third World a lot of these diseases. We like to say we cured them over with vaccines, but if you do the research, what you find out is we cured them with plumbing. These diseases that were so rampant here, window screens, we literally put our shit in, piss in the street. Right. People would walk by that. Right. That's that whole thing about where a man and a woman would walk on the sidewalk because he was trying to cover her from the emptying of the piss bucket right into the streets. When we like to credit vaccines, but if you really do the research on vaccines, you see that there's some serious complications associated with vaccines.

We have an autism debate.

Yeah. In an ingredient debate. Right. We know mercury is present in a lot of these vaccines. We know that the vaccines often cause the disease that they're supposed to be curing. So again, I don't really believe. I believe that we see a lot of statistical manipulation. I see that we have people like Bill Gates really getting behind vaccination, but he's also very behind the idea of population control in the third world. And it's a very confused issue.

I saw the TED speech with Bill Gates and everyone should watch that.

That.

Because it is what he says in there that he quickly kind of recovered from and tried to correct himself. It's scary. I think it shows his true thoughts about these environmentalists. They just want to just limit populations. Who gets to make those decisions? Hitler, I mean, and where.

And where do they make them? Do they make them in Billstown or do they make them in Uganda? So, interestingly, I really don't think vaccines are what did it. Those diseases, all the still exist today. And those diseases have a lot more to do with how people live and the conditions that they're living in. Not the vaccine saving them. It's that we live in a cleaner environment now. In fact, interestingly, we live in such clean environments now that that's actually causing sickness. And lots of research today is saying that it's called the hygiene hypothesis. And what we realize is, do you know that there's organisms in soil that when you touch soil, these bacteria get on your hand, they get in your mouth, they get in your lungs. When you drink water from a spring, you get these organisms into your body that actually cause you to produce serotonin, which means you feel good when you interact with natural soil. When you stop interacting with natural soil and natural landscapes, you become deficient in these organisms and it leads to depression, which we again tried to cure with addictive and dangerous pharmaceuticals. My point is, every departure away from nature seems to lead to more and more problems. But we like to. We mythologize our domestication. We tell a story that we're getting healthier, we're living longer, it's getting better, and this is this. I guess if I was going to sum up everything, it's this. How is it that we believe more in media than what we see with our own eyes outside of media? Right. We believe in this story. It's like that, better living through chemistry. We believe the story like it's all getting better. This technology is going to take us into outer space and we're going to live like Star Trek and it's going to be Utopia. But reality shows us, hey, economically, things are breaking down. Food systems breaking down, ecosystems breaking down. We're seeing it getting worse and worse out there and we're still believing that the ones who caused it are about to make it better any day now. It's a kind of cognitive dissonance where we believe two opposing ideas in our head at the same time. And media is so crafty with their sort of sorcery that they're actually the ones winning out and we believe them over what we see with our eyes.

Yeah, yeah. It's really, really amazing. You know, I love how you say that we've cured a lot of diseases with plumbing and I would just add to that with also with window screens and that's the mosquito, malaria issue. So, yeah, amazing, amazing stuff. Where can people learn more? You did mention your website about springs and natural springs.

Yep. That's findaspring.com and that's for anybody who's interested in accessing water that comes clean and pure from aquifers from beneath, deep beneath the earth. They want pure water and they don't want to buy it out of a bottle. You can go to springs. So go to that website, scroll around on the Google map until you find your area. Click on that and find some springs where you can go visit. That site is built by the user. You can also find me on Daniel Vitalis.com and I recommend you go to YouTube and look me up. I've got lots of free videos there, so you can see my work there. And check out my company, company Certhrival. That's S U R T H R I v a l.com certhrival is a premier provider of regenerative foods, foods mostly wild foods from ecosystems that can help restore your testosterone levels, your progesterone levels, your immune system to restore all of these functions that have been slipping away through the domestication process. So I'm always looking to rewild people through food and that's what we do at survival.

That's fantastic. And you know, I want to ask you one more question before you go. When you talked about the animals in the wild dying at their natural mature age rather than dying of degenerative diseases. With all this talk about longevity and mapping the genome and increasing lifespans and so forth for humans, what is that natural mature age for humans? And here's why I ask this question. Number one, I'm incredibly fascinated by that whole area. But when you look at what you talked about, averaging and, you know, infant mortality and all of that stuff, and you look at people like Stradivarius in the. What the. I don't even remember the decade. You know, the century, maybe the 1700s or something, you know, living to be like 90 or 100 years old. You know, certainly a long time ago. There were people that lived a long time. Everybody didn't die at 30 or 40 in the old days.

It's still going on today.

Absolutely. Very good point. And so, you know, it really begs the question, what is that natural age? I mean, should people live to be 120, maybe 150? I don't know.

This is. I love this question because the first of all, people have. People died young and people lived into old age in the past, and they die young and live into old age today. There's a lot of variation. It seems to me that. That you're born with sort of a genetic potential. This would be my best guess on this because we don't really know the answer to this, and there's actually quite a bit of debate and confusion around this issue. But let's say this. Imagine you're born with a sort of potential that if you fed yourself right and lived correctly, you could live out to be. I don't know. Let's say for some people it might be 80, some people it might be 120. We don't see much beyond that. So let's say that you've got this range of 80 to 120. And everything you do that damages you is like a little bit of. You take a little bit off of that, you can recover from that damage to some degree, but not all the way. When we see people living into a ripe old age, a couple things are usually present. They usually live in a calm environment, not very stressful, where they eat very natural food that they grow themselves or they harvest themselves and they have good, strong genetics. It's a combination of factors. If you have really, really bad genetics, it's going to be hard to beat that, even with really great food. Probably the biggest thing detracting from us, though, is the stress. So when we look at people who. Because how many times do you see the story of a lady who lives to 108 and she drinks vodka every day and eats a chocolate bar. We see these stories a lot. So it's not just food. A lot of it has to do with having good routines, loving relationships, and a lack of stress. So that's really critical. But I want to just say that people lived into ripe old ages because typically, because they chose a wise lifestyle and people, some people burn themselves out really young. I don't know if people living usually past 110 seems to be sort of near the upper limit. And occasionally people make it past there. We hear stories of people to 120. Much beyond that. I would be fantasizing or mythologizing to say, oh, yeah, we could live to 150, because I don't have any evidence of that. But I have definitely evidence that we can live over 100. However, I like to point this out as well. We don't live in that clean, pristine environment we once did. The Native American people living here on this continent of North America were living in a pure environment. Pure food, pure water, real sunlight, outdoors. They were always interacting with the environment and they'd lived to ripe old ages. It would be hard for us to beat that in a really toxic lifestyle. So I think it's really important that we try to minimize our toxin exposure, that we cleanse our bodies, that we do things like saunas to keep our clean and clear, we drink fresh water, we eat good food because we've got a bit of a tougher environment to cope with. So if you're wanting to have that kind of longevity, I recommend you look at practices to feed yourself really well and to keep yourself detoxified so that you can really live out to what your potential is.

Great advice. Well, hey, Daniel, thank you so much for sharing this with us today. And I want to look into some of the products you provide and just learn a lot more about it. Fantastic, Fascinating conversation. Thanks for joining us.

Thanks so much, Jason. Take care.

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