WIN 54 - Thinking Outside the Book with Stefanie Hartman

Welcome to win, the Women Investing Network, the podcast where you can learn from successful entrepreneurs, business leaders and real estate investors who are winning in business and life. Learning from others is the fastest way to grow your skills, gain knowledge and avoid pitfalls so you can win. Join our hosts, Elizabeth Embry and Jason Hartman. Elizabeth is a seasoned real estate investor, experienced corporate executive and skilled mentor. Jason is a self made multimillionaire investor, entrepreneur and highly acclaimed thought leader. Together with their successful guests, you'll get the tools you'll need to win.

It's my pleasure to welcome Stephanie Hartman to the show. Other than having a great last name like mine, Stephanie is a speaker, author, marketing and revenue strategist as well as being a TV host. And we're going to talk today about product creation and joint ventures, two very important things for speakers, authors and infopreneurs. And Stephanie, welcome. It's great to have you on the line here from Vancouver, Canada, one of my favorite cities.

Oh, thanks so much. Great to be here. Thanks Jason.

Product creation and joint ventures, two vital parts of the infopreneuring business. Most definitely. What do you have to say about those?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I work as a consultant to a lot of the really famous, well known, best selling authors and, and I've worked with Mark Victor Hansen from Chicken Soup to the Soul. I worked with T. Harv Eker for three years, Millionaire Mind.

We had Harv on the show.

Oh great. So I started off working with a lot of these really big guys and women in this industry and then ended up helping really anyone that has an expertise and helping them turn it into a business. And a lot of these authors and speakers are people who want to create this as a business. What a lot of them do is they just write one book or they have one speech that they give and they get paid for that. And basically what I teach them how to do is to create a whole business backend behind them. So really a brand and a business where they are selling some type of a system, but they are the spokesperson for it. So even if it is their own baby with their own materials in it, I want to empower them to have it run online or empower trainers who can teach the information so that they can go out and teach about it and they have this huge business running in the background. So product creation is pretty huge as a revenue generator. It's the biggest revenue generator for authors and speakers. Most people think that you make a lot of money from selling a book and really the whole purpose of a book is to Let people know about your online program. It's basically like a big business card. So in fact, Robert Allen, who wrote Multiple Streams of Income, he's a friend and colleague of mine and he told me on the phone about his $25 million mistake. So his 25 million dollar mistake was in one of his first books which he took on the road. Took him a year to. You've probably seen the infomercials where come meet me at this hotel and I'm going to teach you on the subject of my book. Have you seen those infomercials, Jason?

Oh, sure, sure. And by the way, I should say that many years ago Robert Allen was the inspiration estate career and real estate investments. And I've, I was actually on his infomercial years ago endorsing him and back when he wrote nothing down and creating wealth many, many years ago. So.

That'S great. And so what he, what he told me was a 25 million dollar mistake is in one of his first books he sold, he made a million dollars from his book and he sold a million copies. But he hired a publicist which cost anywhere. I mean publicists can from anywhere from $10,000 a month or up to $20,000. I mean it just really varies on the packages that you get. He had to rent the hotel rooms, he had to do all this stuff. So he made a million dollars but it took him a year and he was completely exhausted and a lot of travel and a lot of hotels. And then he realized on one of his other books which was deemed a publishing failure. Now that's from his lips. So I'm not dogging on him. That's what he said. It was considered a publishing failure because it only sold a few thousand copies. But it was a massive marketing success because. And this is the power of creating back end products is throughout his book he just had in 15 different places. If you want to download this chart that I'm talking about or you want to see the video of the interview that I'm talking about in the book, or you want to see the hidden chapter that never made it in the book through publishing, go to this website. And it was just basically a hiswebsite.com chart or video freeoffer or whatever it was in the book. So people went to his site and they put their name and their email address into his website and in about a year he had 5,000 people buying his $5,000 program. This is a weekend event where you could come see Robert and you learn everything that you learn inside his $20 book.

And that is strictly from the book. Those 5,000 people.

Yeah, so it's 5,000 people who went through his site, got on his list and then came to. So 5,000 times 5,000 is $25 million. And see, that's the difference in having a back end. It's so, so important. And so one of the things to start to think about creating a product. A product can be a weekend event, a product can be an online program, it can be a membership site. But if you want to start somewhere, the first place to really start is what is your topic, what do you want to teach people and what do you want them to achieve? Because most good teachers want someone to do something with the information. Right. So it can be anything from. So if you answer those questions, then look at your topic and just create something from it, even if it's just audio recordings plus some templates and create a four week program where once a week you're talking about something, then giving a little homework and things like that. So I can't get into all the details exactly how to do it. Of course, I take people through the exact process. And then there are things you want to create, like lead generating products before that and upper level products after that and some type of product that is a continuance product where simply someone is paying you monthly for some training or support, like they pay their cable bill every month. So that's a great way to earn money. But if you just start with your core product, then that's really the first thing you have to, you want to think about.

So I want to talk about joint ventures fairly extensively in this show, Stephanie, but before we do that, certainly I think speakers all agree with you nowadays that products are where it's at. And it seems like in today's world, everybody and their brother is becoming an infopreneur of some sort. And as a consumer you've got to learn to distinguish the wheat from the chaff, for sure. But what tips do you have on product creation? I mean, you mentioned event can be a product. So when you talk about products, you're talking events or products. But how can a speaker really get down and do it and create more products or better products or maybe create their first product depending on who's listening and what their thoughts are on it.

Yeah, the first thing that I do is I go through kind of a product plan with people. So we look at their expertise and then we get really, really specific on their target market. Because you need to know who you're talking to. Because if you say your product is for everyone, then virtually it's for no one. The reason I say that is because people need to, when they're listening to you, they need to know who you work with, they need to know what your product is for. That's really the first thing to look at. So to figure out your target market, one of the questions I ask people is if you could work with anyone, who would you love to work with? If you could hang out with anyone on a Tuscan hillside, drinking a glass of wine and spend the weekend with, chatting with, and you get excited about it, who would it be? I mean, for me, it's entrepreneurs. So that's the group. I love entrepreneurs. I think they're courageous, I think they're exciting. I love their ideas or innovations. Those are the people that I just get so much energy being around. So that's my target. But you may be in the travel industry, let's say, and so you're thinking, well, maybe the travel industry could be my target. I mean, that's great. And let's even get more specific. There's a podcasting expert that I'm working with who's a client of mine and he's got podcasting, but he found a great little niche going after retail businesses. Then you may have another niche going after nonprofits. Then you may have another niche going after small business entrepreneurs and maybe break that down into like real estate agents. So the more you can break your niche down, then you really know who you are talking to. And then it's really finding out what are the pains that are going on, what are the problems, what are they feeling, what is the situation that's happening to them, that's bringing them to you or your product. When I think about my target market, I think about them in two ways. One is really let's identify them specifically, like age, sex, profession, married, single, all of that stuff. So you really get sort of a three dimensional picture of them. Do they have kids, what's their income bracket, all of that. Then I think of them kind of like situationally so. So emotionally what's gone on in their life that they're coming to you for this solution or they're looking for you in this solution? What has happened to them with them trying to buy products that are similar to you? If you answer these questions, then you'll get a better feeling and they'll become more human to you. For example, I work with a lot of baby boomers, so I know that certain things about that demographic. But I also know that this Is a time where people have spent their entire lives working for someone else and now they want to do something just for them. So any business that they are going to create online, whether it is a book they are going to write and any products they are going to create, it has to mean something to them. If it doesn't feel some sense of purpose for them and really incorporate them and their personality into it, they are not going to be interested. So I make sure that when I talk about it, I say, hey, this is a great business. It is inexpensive to start. You are your own boss, you work your own hours, and I am going to teach you how to build your business based on your personality strengths so that it's a business that you love. So if you love speaking, we're going to add that in. If you don't, we're going to go with an online business. I mean, we can really, if you like to travel, we can add that in. If you don't, we can change that in the business model. If different business models, how to do it, it's customized for them. But the biggest part is I say this isn't really about the money. The money is going to be great for you. But the bigger reason for doing this is really reinventing yourself and becoming the person you're meant to be and really fulfilling that dream that you have. So it's really knowing and all those things are really true and really dear to why I create things too. So it's just really listening to your customer, figuring out your target market and seeing them as a person. That's the first place I would start. So even on a sales page. And I've hired copywriters and some are incredible, but I found I hired a copywriter, cost me like $15,000 and this is the first time I ever did that. And my sales actually went down on the site. So I ripped it all off and I just spoke from the heart and I started to identify my customer and I said, look, if you are. And I identified all the stats, the age, the group, the professions, all of that in there. And then I said, ann, this is what you are thinking and going through and have you ever felt this and that? And then here is the solution. And that was the way that I helped develop my product and also the way that I thought about marketing my product. And I find now, and we'll talk about this when we talk about joint ventures, is that if people hear the truth, it's just so different than what anyone else is marketing or creating. So when you're creating your products, they really recognize the truth as soon as they hear it. And that cuts off the BS factor. And there's a lot of that going out on there.

Oh, that's for sure. Stephanie, to your earlier point about really getting to know who that audience is so that you're in their shoes and you really know them. I mean one brand that comes to mind, I don't know if it's such a big brand anymore, but it was, it's. I was reading an article I think was in Forbes about Tommy Bahama. The clothing line Tommy Bahama. There is no such person that exists with that name. Right. But all of the employees as part of the corporate culture sort of view this fictitious person as a real person. How would that person think? What would they do? What would they like? What would they dislike? And this is the fictitious Tommy Bahama character. And it's an interesting point because in targeting and really developing narrow audiences, audiences is what it's all about nowadays. It's the concept of the long tail. And the long tail concept basically says that, look, in the olden days with storefront type of businesses, it was very hard to specialize like you can today because you existed in a geographical neighborhood or maybe with some mail order or things like that and you couldn't reach that very, very niche, narrow, specific audience, that specific buyer, that specific consumer like you can now on the Internet. So someone can type in. I can't think an example off the top of my head, but they can go and they can search online for single mom speakers whose kids are into soccer and they can then write a blog for that and create info products that serve that audience.

Yeah, or car lovers. You know, you don't have to see how many car lovers are around my neighborhood. You know, it's people from all over the world. That's what makes this business so successful. And the second reason is.

But it's better than that because it's not just car lovers, it's what kind of car, what year of car. It's like really narrow nowadays, which is great. Yeah, absolutely.

To figure out what type of. The last thing I would do is of course this is a big process that I take people through through a whole month just on this topic alone. But it's to figure out what your product is going to be. Just to simple it down really simply is find out what they want. Like you said, once you think about your customer in a three dimensional format, what do they want is the reasons why they're going to come to you. Then what do they need. Because, you know, things that they need that they don't even know about yet. Add those in and then figure out what's the best way for this particular group to get this information from me. Is it in person, is it online? All of those things? Because that can really help change whether this is something that's online or it is an in person process as well.

Well, hey, now that we know our customer, and that's some very good insight into that, we know who we're looking for, we know who our target market is, and we've developed products that give them what they want. How do we spread the word and additional influence? By joint venturing now and maybe distinguish for the listeners, if you would, Stephanie too. What is the difference between JVs and affiliate marketing? Because affiliate marketing, obviously, you know, a huge online industry of having affiliates sell your products. But as you think about joint ventures, there are some distinctions, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And in fact, I created a whole network called the private JV club. And it's really a club of CEOs and people that are there that want to partner with each other and are looking for it from around the world. It's really cool. We have people from Starbucks to Oprah to Regular Joe's in there. But really one is a jv. A JV is really two people or two parties coming together for a common goal. So it's a joint venture. And this has actually been called by PricewaterhouseCooper who does this report every year. They interview the top CEOs who've made multimillions of dollars in their companies. And they find out what is the biggest thing that's made the biggest difference inside your business. And joint ventures has come across as part of the talk.

Even Forbes magazine is talking about it. It said, goodbye mergers and acquisitions. In a global market tied together by the Internet, joint ventures are proving a more productive way to keep companies growing. And Thompson Financial actually called it the most powerful trend in the history of business. And the reason why joint ventures are so powerful is because it's really one of the top marketing strategies. And huge corporations have been doing this for years, but entrepreneurs are just learning about it now. And you can actually, as an entrepreneur, sell products with no money, no customer list and no risk. And the reason that you can do this is because in a lot of type of joint ventures, you can find promotional products that will promote your product to their own customer list. So if you don't have a customer list, they will promote it for you. There is no risk because you are not paying them to do it. Where if you placed an ad in the newspaper, if you wanted a front page ad in the newspaper, it cost you maybe ten grand and you have your product up there and if no one falls, you can't go back to the newspaper and say, oh, I didn't make money on that ad so I'm not going to pay you now.

They would throw you out of the office. Right? That never happens. But in joint ventures, many, many times, in fact, almost 100% of the time, no one puts any cash up front. And you both sell products or your partner is selling your product for you to their customer list and you pay them a commission based on a product sold. So it's not even money that you have, it's money that your customers send you.

You don't pay them until you even get the product to your customer. And a lot of times 30 days is up and then you pay your partner. So it's a really economical and fast, fast way to get your name out there. And the other benefit of using someone else's customer list is now all of a sudden you're not going to a cold market, which everyone hates. You're going to a warm market. You're immediately welcomed into a warm market because the person that owns that customer list actually has a big relationship with their list. So it's like bringing in a friend into a party where everyone else at the party is friends. And you walk in and he says, hey, this is my good friend Jason. We've got this great product out and let me tell you about him. And everyone goes, oh, hi Jason, great to meet you. And blah, blah, blah, like it's a completely different situation than you walking into a room and trying to talk about yourself. It's a really different way. And you know, you've seen a lot of the powerful like you, you know, we were, we were talking a bit about. There seems to be like a lot of businesses where, you know, they've got, you know, five or six friends and all of them are joint venturing and promoting each other. I mean, that's very common in this industry. And in fact you could do timed campaigns, which is just a way of structuring your jv, where you've probably seen an email that comes through and says so and so is launching a product and if you buy it by X date, you'll get whatever bonus is. And you get five or six emails like that saying the exact same thing from completely different people.

I know, I get them all the time. It seems as though I'm on every list. But the question is, Stephanie, the $64,000 question is how do you do that? If someone is really wanting to get into this and maybe they've been spe, maybe they've written a book or two, they've done sort of that traditional thing, now they're moving into the joint venture Internet marketing world. What's in it for the other party? I mean, people aren't just going to hand over their customer list to you.

Obviously you probably won't get their customer list. But the biggest thing is the new currency, really the new economy is relationships. So your first job is really building a relationship. And the first thing I would think of when I'm. When I want to create a JV and figure out who can I JV with is the first thing to know is who is your target market? And we already talked about this. Who is your customer? Think of them as a whole being. What do they buy? Is another great question. Where do they hang out or what do they like to do? Let's say, for example, if you've got a great product that's great for the boomer market, you know that they like to hang out at golf resorts, they are interested in boating, they like lifestyle products. So you might even joint venture with someone like that. Thinking this way actually expands your partnership possibilities, which is the first thing you need to do to be successful in joint ventures. So think also what business, service or products do they use before or after they come to you? A great example of that is the JV marriage of FedEx and Kinko's. I mean, if FedEx thought about this, they think, okay, so I'm shipping a lot of products. What do we mostly ship? Documents. Okay, well where are the people? Where do people get the documents from? Well, they go and get them copied at Kinko's. Kinko is thinking about what do our customers do when they leave our door? They go to ship off. They're on their way running to FedEx and hoping they'll make it in time. Right? So those two guys got together, they said, look, we will capture way more of the market if we work together and co mingle our offices. We can share retailers space. So we are sharing the costs in half. They immediately save a huge amount of money in both businesses. The staff is half, the retail space is half. They could even double all their offices in different locations and be using the same amount of money per year for expenses. And they are both getting more customers because people can easily do both services at one time. They can Ship the documents, they can copy the documents. So you mentioned affiliate marketing and affiliate marketing is really kind of a different beast. It's a little less relationship oriented. It's more like how many products can I sell? And it's about. And finding affiliates to promote your product is always a good thing. But if you think of joint ventures more in a much bigger way, who could I build a lifelong relationship with that would be a good partner that could bring customers to me? So the really next one question to think about is what companies currently have a relationship with your target market? Right. Because that's the key word. I said there is a relationship. So there may be companies, there may be entrepreneurs, there may be services, there may be charity organizations, there may be big corporations who already has a relationship with your specific target market. If I've got a product that I want to sell to dentists, I'm going to start creating a relationship with the dental associations. I'm going to find if there's any dentists that are authors and see if they have a database and promote to them. I'm going to look at the magazines that cater to dentists. I'm going to look to see if there's any TV shows. I'm going to look and see if there's any charitable organizations that you know, help with kids getting their teeth fixed, all of those things. The insurance companies that work with dentists and insure them. What about the companies that supply the equipment to the dentist's office? And you know, if I can put a promotional to them, they've already got a database list of all the dentists that use their, you know, all their machines, their medical equipment, all that stuff. Those are potential partners.

Question is though, I get the partners and that's. Those are very good thoughts. How does one offer the partner value? The target partner? Is it to say, well I'll give you 50% of the sales. That's what the affiliate marketing world does.

Which is really not normal in the real world.

I agree with you. Yeah, that's a high number.

Absolutely. Yeah. Pretty much the ratios. If someone is running your product and they're a well known online marketer, it's pretty much 50%. If it's something that is like an online program, maybe a workshop, but if it's, if it's consulting time or something like that, that's very, very time based that you're selling, then it's usually between 10 and 20%. So you can negotiate that on the back end and in the beginning it's a good way to Start, because even if you're giving away 50%, that's 50% you didn't have before and you're getting that database list. What I would do on top of that is give away something for free. So you capture database leads or customer leads of people that didn't buy your product as well from the partners that you are working with. That may be a good way to do it. So offer a free ebook, offer a contest, offer anything you can so that you can gather those leads. And there are lots of mobile marketing things that you can do where people can type in their phone and contact you as well as going online. So there are lots of ways to do it and I help people figure that out. But one of the kiss of death that I got when someone wanted to partner with me, and this is one of the biggest mistakes that people make when they are approaching joint venture partners like you are talking about, is I had someone that was phoning up my office and wanted to meet with me, but wasn't happy meeting on the phone, wanted to meet in person and said, look, I'm really busy, I don't know anything about you and all this stuff. I'm not going to drive all the way to have lunch with someone that I don't know yet unless there is some type of a compelling reason because you can get those calls every single day. And was calling my assistant for about two months and then finally I said, okay, persistent wins out. All right, I'll come and I'll meet you. Let's have coffee for 20 minutes, right? And so I go in, I drive into town, I come into the coffee shop and the first thing that he says to me when I sit down is he says, oh, thanks for coming out and seeing me. And I said, sure, no problem. And he said, so can you tell me a bit about what you do? And that drove me insane because here's a guy that's been after me for months to meet with me, and this is what he says. And nothing will piss somebody off faster than you don't know what they do and they don't know who their target market is, you don't know what they're selling and all of that. So the first thing when you want to approach a partner is research, right?

You want to know who and why you're approaching so that you can offer the value proposition right away, right?

Yeah. So in order to figure out the value proposition, you want to know is what you're offering them. Let's say it's your product or something, or Something that you're hoping that they'll promote for you. If it is not a match to their target market, they are not going to be interested, even if your product isn't sensational. So that's the first thing you need to know. You need to really know who they are targeting. Second, I would be on their list or jump on their company website and learn what you can about the person in charge, the CEO. What is their agenda for this year? Are there any charities that they're involved in? Do they have a mission this year? Are they going in a new direction? What do they really want to get out there and promote? And then, second of all, think not what you want and need, but how you can help them, because that's the biggest thing. If you can come across as someone that helps them out, then you will completely distinguish yourself from everybody else and then you don't have to worry about the value so much. I'll talk about that in a little bit, second, because I'm still getting to there. But the number one mistake, and this is the biggest complaint, I interviewed hundreds of the most successful people in this business and asked them, tell me privately what upsets you when you get JV proposals either via email or on the phone, and why do you decide to go yes with someone? There are some people that, if you're the right person, you come across the right way, even if you're just starting, they will take you under their wing and they will do you know, they will promote you even though you don't have a huge list and you don't have anything huge to offer them in return. But here's the first thing you need to do is build rapport. That's your first mission. You know, maybe your first one is research. The second one is build rapport.

So after you do the research and you find out they're a match for you, then build rapport. And here's the thing. I kind of reckon JVs as dating. So you're back into the dating world. And what most people do when they open up a conversation or they send in an email, they do the equivalent of this. They walk into a bar and let's say, Jason, you see this pretty girl sitting on a bar stool up there and imagine yourself, if you go up to her and you say, hi, my name is Jason Hartman and this is what I do and this is what I sell. And I think, here's what I think we should do. I think we should get together, I think we should get married. I think this is where we should have our house. I think this is the exact dog we should get.

She would run for the hills.

And here's what you're going to get out of it. And you're going to be so happy. So, you know, do we have a deal?

Right?

Yeah. She would think you're insane. Right. And you get these huge bodyguards coming out. But this is what people do every day when they meet business contacts. And the thing that I tell people is you've got something in your mind. You're like, look, I would be so excited if so. And so company would promote me and promote my product. Either send an email out or have me up on their stage or promote me through their newsletter or maybe even we co create a product together. What I usually suggest is have that in mind, but go there with an open mind. Your first thing to do is build rapport. So when you find out what's important to them, then you can have conversations with them and you can say, look, I noticed that this is one of your goals. I've got a contact here that I'd like to shoot your way. I could set that meeting up for you. Would that be something that would be of interest for you? They'll go, yeah, that would be great. And you just come out of the blue like, oh, this is cool. I'm kind of doing this. This is neat. And then you could say, secondly, I've been watching your stuff for long. Or I saw this new product that you're going to be launching next year. I think it would be really great. I talk to the same demographic and, and this is why I think your product is going to be so hot and so great with them and I'd love to introduce your product to them and maybe we can find a way to make that happen. And they say, yeah, yeah, maybe we can find a way to make that happen. I'm working on something too, and this is what it is. And I think it would complement and not compete with what you're doing because of it this way. And if there's some way we can maybe sometime in the future or something, we can talk about that. I think love to do that, you know, and it's funny, I had a conversation with a woman that is famous for never doing joint ventures and she says on her website, don't contact me.

Interesting. So she's like, got the sign up. I don't want to date anybody.

I don't want to date anybody. And it's true. And because she gets these crazies that come up to her in the bar and have that conversation with her all the time. And she just. It's like people pulling on your skirt or your pant leg and saying, here's what I need, here's what I need. Here's what I need, right? All about me, me, me, me, me. And she's got all these goals, she's got this busy business. She's trying to do all this stuff. So I just tested this out, you know, even. And on this conversation, and you know, she had the same name, first name as me. I won't tell you her last name or you'll figure it out, but she had this first, same first name as me. And we talked about that. And I said, you know, I've been hearing about you from so and so colleagues, and they're always saying, we should connect. And, you know, I just looked at your product. Wow, that looks so hot. And. And started talking about it and getting her engaged in what she is interested in. And I said, what are your plans for the next year? Is there anything, one major project you're really excited about? And then I said to her, I think I'll really be able to help you in some way. Let me know. Maybe I can help you in any of these three ways that may have nothing to do with what I currently do. It could be a contact. It could be, hey, if you want advice, it could be anything. Or, why don't I find a contact that could help you with that, you know, and you try to find someone that can help them.

If you can't do it, everything you're saying reminds me of this story that Earl Nightingale used to tell about the person on the white horse. During the Great Depression, employers put up signs in their windows. Or not employers, but businesses that were still in business put up signs in their windows that said no help wanted. Because they were just deluged with people coming in saying, do you have any jobs? I need a job. And there was one person, the man on the white horse, who would find a business or an industry that he wanted to be in, and he would research it, learn about it, and make the call on that. That company and say, I understand the problems your business faces and I believe I have the solution for you. And that's what every business owner wants to hear, right? Instead of, I need a job. And it's just the way you approach it. Exactly what you're saying. That's great point.

Yeah. And you know, and really, you know, with that, it's. It's just having, you know, short conversations. And if you Think about it. If I can have like a rapport building two minute conversation and it's probably going to turn into a lot longer. I had someone that I met that wanted so much to get in and talk to Steve Wynn from Las Vegas who owns a Wynn resort. And Wynn said, you've got five minutes. Well, he knew what Wynn interests were and he started talking to them and it ended up being a two hour interview. And now he's got contacts and he built a huge relationship. So my number one tip is don't go in there thinking you know exactly what the joint venture is going to be between the two of you. Because you know what? Once you build a relationship and rapport with that person, they may even have a better idea of how you could work together. Maybe your product could be a bonus for their paid clients who bought their customers and they pay you a wholesale rate for that. What you really want to get to and you can get to it quickly is having people co create with you. Because if someone co creates something then they will support it. You can have a more powerful sales launch if you have even one partner that is super on board with you than 100 smaller affiliate partners who don't really know you. They don't really care if your product goes or not. They are sending out the email, but maybe it doesn't go to everybody or they forget to send it out, all of that. But if you have one person or two people that is really supporting you getting it out there, that's because you have a relationship with them and you want them. Ask them how could we. Here are some ideas I had. But what do you see? What do you think? How would this work in. And you give them the power instead of being all over them, you're talking to them like an equal. And the last thing I just want to make, I know we're almost out of time is about the value is you bring tremendous value. One of the things you could even bring is knowledge on a subject which may be your product that they don't currently offer to their clients, but it's something that they need. Maybe you are the FedEx to their kinkos. So maybe you've got a computer program or a system or something that's brand new, you haven't even sold it to anyone. You want to take it to someone who has a huge database. But if it helps them, say, you know what, Joel, calm. I know you've got this product on Twitter. I actually have a program that could probably help you sell more of those books if we Even tied them together, that would be an interesting conversation for him to have. He'd be very interested in it. Plus if it took up very little of his time. And one example of a very simple JV just to get you thinking is there was a woman who wrote this book on toasts. Not the bread, but you know when you go to a party and you make a speech, right? And you're on toast. So she went through the process that I talk about. Who is your target market? Well, there are people at weddings giving birth, all of these big events. Birthday parties where people are giving toast. So who else is targeting that customer? Well, sparkling wine and champagne companies are. She was a self published author, she had no connections and she started writing the letters to every single sparkling wine and champagne company she could have. And she suggested a co creation JV where she said, I've got this book untowed and it's 101 toasts, you can give it a party. And here's why I love your sparkling wine. I think it would be perfect for the event and there's something that we could do together to promote. So she had a company that said yes. They didn't know her from anyone had a company that said yes. And here's what they did to her. First of all, what they did is they bought tens of thousands of her books. Done. One phone call, done. Now she charged them a wholesale rate plus five, six bucks, right? So she made money right there. Then what they did is they packaged it and they had a promotion. She says, let my book help promote your product. Remember the theme? I said let my product help promote your product and what you're trying to do. So they came up with a concept that if you bought two bottles of champagne, you got her book for free, which is great, right? So instead of people buying one bottle, they buy two bottles, right? And you can imagine all the best men and all the bridesmaids, all these things going and running out to the parties and getting them. And so they actually bought her books. She didn't have to pay for the drivers to haul the champagne bottles to haul the books. She didn't have to pay for the retail space in the liquor stores or the shopping stores that are selling them. She didn't have to pay for all the advertising promotion that the company was doing. She didn't have to pay for the staff in the liquor store to stock the shelves and put the books up. She didn't have to pay for any of the advertising on TV or radio or newspaper or anything that had this big promotion of if you buy two bottles of champagne, you get this for free.

Much, much better business model, much easier. And wow, what a huge across the.

Country instantly because she had a national partner on that. And then if this works, they're going to do it again and again and again. Think of another fun way of how to work together. So that's just a quick example of how she used all of those pieces and came up with that model. And she had a self published look and she wasn't a celebrity at all.

Excellent point, Stephanie. We're going to have some Special offers@speakingofwealth.com offers. I'll repeat that. Speakingofwealth.com offers and your website, Stephanie hartman.com. stephanie, you wanted to offer like a free workbook or something like that on there.

Yeah, I absolutely did because this is a really big subject and I have a, I have a course on this. But if you want, you can actually get a free membership into the JB Club where you can meet partners. It's got matchmaking technology that can actually. It's like the dating site for business and you can get in for one month free. And then if you want to continue, you can. And you can also get a 63 page workbook that really talks about what is a JV. It gives you tons of examples whether you want to go to trade shows for free. I got my clients all over trade shows for free. I got celebrity endorsements for their trade show booth and within two weeks of them going to the trade show that cost them nothing. How to get a national sales team with no expense. How one woman partnered with one person and went from a $300,000 a year business to a $1.3 million a year business. Because two people going to the same market just put their products together and really why this is working. True staff even about why this is working in this economy now. And talks a little bit about charities and corporations too. But then there's a workbook where you can really p all of the things about you and you'll be able to walk away after you read this and fill it out of knowing exactly who you can partner with, how you're going to approach them and almost everything you need to do and that's going to be there on that website that you mentioned. So you're welcome to that. I sold that at $97 and I had 2000 downloads in 24 hours for that book. It's really the wave of the future and you never have to work alone anymore. And this is a big thing. Collaboration is really the wave of the future.

Yeah, it really is. And it's really always worked so well historically too. But nowadays even people that you consider people or businesses that you consider in some way your competitors. I love the title of a book that addresses this several years ago called Coopetition because In today's world, one plus one does not necessarily equal two. Sometimes it equals 11. That's the power of collaboration.

And my new, yeah, my new book coming out is going to be called Six Degrees to Wealth and it's really about the six degrees of separation that we have. And it will blow your mind how close you are to the context that you really want. And there's a study that actually proves this and I'm going to be talking about that. If we have more time, I would give it. But I mean it's really the wave of the future and you'll be able to identify too, even just by reading that's free workbook of who is an abundant thinker and who is a lack thinker because you don't want to waste your time doing a JV deal with a lack thinker. And those lacked thinkers. Their businesses are going down right now. I've seen it in the last three years. A major decline in the industry of LAC thinkers. But abundant thinkers working together and collaborating are just doing amazing.

That's great. So Stephanie Hartman, thank you so much for joining us. The free workbook which was $97 before and a couple thousand downloads. Thank you so much for your generosity in offering that that will@speakingofwealth.com offers as well as the links for the free 30 day trial of your business matchmaking group. And those are just excellent things. Thank you Stephanie for the words of wisdom and for those generous offers. Stephanie Hartman from Vancouver, thank you for joining us today. Appreciate it.

Thank you so much. And thank you everyone for listening.

Thank you so much for listening to the Women Investing Network. Be sure to see, subscribe, rate and review the show on itunes or the platform of your choice. You can find the show notes and resources for today's episode@womeninvestingnetwork.com remember that guest opinions are their own and information is of general nature. So be sure to consult appropriate tax, legal or other professionals for specific advice.