#3: Adam Mitrani - stand-up comedy, writing process, why tv is so good right now

Alright, welcome to Jason's Brain Blast number 3. I got my homie Adam Matroni on. We've been friends since high school, traveled the world together a little bit, shared some sushi in Poland. Uh, he's one of the funniest people I know. Uh, he's a stand-up comedian living in Brooklyn, so go check him out on Twitter and, uh, check out some of his Instagram videos where he posts his stand-up. Alright, thanks for listening. All right, Adam, why do you get up on stage and let people, uh, point and laugh at you? Is that, is that what you do, right?

Um, I mean, that's one way to put it. There's, there's usually not a lot of pointing. Hopefully if things, if things go right, it's just laughing. Um, I don't know. I mean, do you want like the serious answer, the comedic answer, or the like self-deprecating answer?

Can you combine them all three? Is that, is that—

Sure. I could try and combine them. So I guess, I mean, part of it's like, is like a desire for attention and validation and like, you know, like I feel like this is the thing that I'm good at. And so I want to do it well and have people like recognize that and sort of be praised for it. And the laughter is the most immediate form of praise possible. Um, and then Yeah, I don't know. It's just something I'm drawn to really is like, is what it is. Um, I think I like, I like making people laugh. Um, there's like no better feeling than that is like the selfless answer. And then like the like self-deprecating answer, which is also honest, is that, you know, uh, I like feeling like I'm good at something, you know, I like I like people recognizing that I'm funny, and I like, you know, I like the validation that comes with it. And it's just fun. It's just, it's like the most fun thing in the world. Like, there's just no, there's no better feeling to me than, than like going on stage and killing.

Dude, I bet, man. How was it your first time? I like, I mean, I remember when we were like 16, 17 and we were on a bus or whatever in Israel and we were talking and you were just funny as shit. And I, I like could see you being a famous comedian. Like, that, that's a thing I could see then, like, and still see and believe in. Um, but how, how was it doing your first time? And like, did you have to go through that like terrible shit that people have to go through when they're going the comedy route? Is that a dramatization or is that real?

Oh, I mean, I'd say I'm like, in some ways I'm still going through it. You know, like I'm still like, you know, I'm not really, I'm not there yet. You know, I'm still like, I'm still doing open mics every night and, you know, I'm occasionally doing shows, but like, you know, I'm still like in the grind of it. Um, but yeah, no, I think I always sort of like had sort of like an ear for comedy. Um, and like, that was always like the thing that You know, I don't know. I always feel like it's pretentious to— for like when people are like, it's my calling, or like, it's— or like, again, like a lot of comics would be like, I can't do anything else. If I could do something else, I would. It's like, no, I, I could do other stuff. Like, I think I do this better probably than most other stuff, but like, I could have other jobs, and I like this way more than any other prospect. Um, but, but yeah, back to— but the first time Um, the first time, so me and my friend Tyler, who was just over helping me shoot this promo, he and I, we were friends in college. It's our sophomore year. Tyler's very funny. Um, he doesn't really do stand-up. He's done like a few open mics. Um, he's more into like writing and film, but he's, he's very funny. And so he was like one of the few people that I'd met where I was like, this guy gets it. Like, this guy I feel like is as funny as me. Um, which is part of why I'm glad he does not do stand-up because like I do not Um, but yeah, so I was talking to him about it and I was like, I really want to do stand-up. And he was like, oh, that— I kind of would like to try it too. I was like, do you want to like go to an open mic? Like, do you want to get drunk and then go to an open mic? You know, we were 19, 20 in college, like you got to get drunk to do anything. Um, so we played the Family Guy drinking game, um, which like if you want to like find and pull it up and see what the rules are, you can. But, um, we played that and that shit'll get you fucked up. Uh, like watching some old Family Guy, like I think like season 1 maybe. And so yeah, we played that. Um, got, got a little drunk, went to an open mic and I did all right. You know, like it wasn't great, but it, I got laughs and that was where I was like, wait, did you write jokes for it or did you just go up there and And yeah, I had— yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. All right.

So I had jokes written, but they weren't like— I didn't know how to write a joke. So like they were observations or like stories that had like little like bits of funny in them. But like, I think it took me like a year of doing stand-up to really know how to write a joke.

So how do you write a joke? What's the secret?

See, I don't even know like how— I don't know how to Did like, I wouldn't know how to teach it honestly. And because my process of writing is very much like, like I write a lot through performing. So I basically like when I get an idea, I write it down sometimes in a notebook, almost always in my phone in the Notes app. And so I write it down and then You know, I kind of save it for later. I don't really sit down to write that often. Um, and then, you know, and then I'll perform it on stage and then sometimes I'll think of a tag in the moment, then I'll add it. I always go back and listen to my sets and kind of like, you know, see like, okay, what, this, this could go here. Maybe this could go here. Um, and yeah, basically kind of like, I, I kind of craft the joke through doing it on stage. And even still, like, you know, I have jokes that I wrote 2 years ago that I'm just now doing because I found the right place to put them in a set and the right tags to add to it. And so basically like, okay, so when I, so like for a joke, like you would need the premise, right? Obviously I did kind of, when I first started writing standup or doing standup, I remember one night I was high and like journaling and kind of came to the conclusion of like, Oh, like jokes, like it goes, this is the, or like he goes a premise, right? That's the basic idea. Then you have, um, a, uh, like joke, which is like setup punchline. And then you have a bit, which is like a larger structured thing that can have multiple jokes in it. And then you have a set and that's like a full piece. That's like a full performance. And so basically feeling like where I started at, I didn't even have jokes. I had premises. And some of my premises were very good, and the premise a lot of times can get a laugh. And that's— I think when I see like comics who are really new to it, that's the thing I see the most that they're doing well but not like fully doing right, is like they have a good premise but they don't know what to add to it, right? And so it's like, you know, premise is like, y'all ever notice how shit be weird but you don't say how shit be weird? You know, like you got the premise but But you need a joke in there. And then obviously, I don't know. I mean, there's like a lot of different setups and punchlines and tags and, and I mean, misdirection, like obviously, like, you know, it's always funnier when the punchline comes, like I've been doing this joke lately of being like, you know, you might've all noticed that I changed something about my appearance recently. I pierced my urethra. And so there's the misdirection, right? Where it's like, the obvious thing is like, I dyed my hair. And then I let that get a laugh. And then I'm like, oh yes, I also, I dyed my hair. I did that as well. Um, so that's, so yeah, like, I think that you never want, um, you never want the audience to know what you're going to say next. Right. Or, I mean, well, I wouldn't, I would never say never to like anything, like nothing in comedy is like an absolute. Um, like there are times where, you know, they're with you, they're like ahead of you. Right, but I think, okay, like, so here's an example. So this comic I know named Nicole Sisk, they're really funny, they're, uh, another person that I met starting out in Vermont. Um, they have this joke where they're like, I'm bisexual, but my problem is that, uh, all the women I'm attracted to are straight and all the men I'm attracted to are terrible, right? And so it's like the obvious punchline is are gay. And that's still funny, right? It's still funny, but that's what everyone expects. And then the misdirection is what makes it a great joke.

Yo, I've been— I gotta be honest, bro, I can't front. I've been stealing one of your jokes.

Which one?

I saw it on one of your Facebook videos. You're like, say what you want about Hitler, seriously, say anything, I hate him. And I steal that every now and then. It's a good one.

It's a good one. I, you know, I give you permission.

All right, cool, cool. We're good. I won't be getting my ass sued.

Yeah. Yeah. So that was, I guess, like a long-ass answer to one question, I think.

Got you. Got you.

So, um, um, sorry, uh, to interject, but yeah, you're saying like how you like thought that I was, uh, funny when we were like 16, 17. My mom was telling me, and you know, she's a writer, so she was telling me recently that she was like going through one of her old journals from when I was like 2, and that in it she was like writing about how like I had a great sense of humor, like as a 2-year-old. Like, I don't even know what that means. Like, what 2-year-old has a good sense of humor? Like, what does that look like? But I guess, yeah, I think it was just always something that I was drawn to.

Yeah. So how does, um, I know you mentioned journaling, how does your writing process work? Does, is journaling just part of your process as well, like for thinking and, um, Or just for joke writing, or is it a mix of both?

I'd say, and I haven't been journaling as much lately. I did that a lot more over the pandemic. Um, was a lot of journaling. I think part of that was because I didn't have the outlet of performing standup. Um, I think typically journaling is more of just, um, a place to sort of like get creative juices flowing, I guess, or like a little bit of like, oh my God, that dog is so cute. Hello. Hello, Ronnie. Oh my God. He's adorable. Yeah. Or like, you know, some catharsis of like just the, just the feeling of like getting thoughts out and letting them go somewhere. But I typically don't, I typically just journal to like get out my thoughts and not to come up with ideas. Sometimes I get ideas from journaling. A lot of times I'm like, this is, maybe this would be a good essay, but then I generally don't go through with writing them. Um, but yeah, sometimes, I mean, I'll sometimes like write shit down when I'm high, you know, I find that I get a lot of funny ideas then.

Um, but they're never as funny when you're sober.

They're never as funny. Well, also it's not even that they're never, it's that like, it's very hard to actually write them down. I like, obviously some people can work that way, but like for me, like I noticed like You know, I think part of it maybe is like an ADD thing where like, I have a hard time like fully writing out a bit. Um, and so I noticed like, I'm like, all right, I'll, I'll remember what gay sombrero means, you know? And I'm like, I have no idea what that's in reference to.

What, what, what does gay sombrero mean?

Oh, I have no idea.

Okay.

All right. It was, it was like just that, but that is a real example of like, I was like, this is an idea. This, it like was something I don't remember.

Yeah. That's fair, that's fair. Yeah, what, what kind of, uh, content inspires you mostly? Is it— has it been music a lot still, or is it other comedians?

Uh, other comedians definitely inspire me. I think, yeah, I'd say definitely like some TV and film can be very inspiring. Yeah, I think that music is probably the most though. Yeah, I think that's still the thing that I go to. I think I don't get— so I noticed, so with other comedy, that will definitely inform my writing style a little bit, which is why I try to listen to a wide variety of comics. And like a lot of times, I'll just like look on Apple Music, I'll like find a comedy, a comedian and I'll just go through their albums, listen to all of them, and then I'll like go through all the related artists, listen to all their albums. And so I'm sort of like just ingesting as much as I can. Um, and I find that that sort of, that does help me come up with jokes. And I definitely feel inspired by other comedians that I know. Um, like people who are, are very funny, like my friend Clara, they're like hilarious. And You know, being like good friends with them, uh, has definitely like helped me improve as a joke writer because, you know, part of it's like a competitiveness and then part of it is like camaraderie. Um, but yeah. And, and film as well can be inspiring, but yeah, I think back to what he said. Yeah. Like music, like, uh, I don't know if you listen to Saba.

He's great.

He's amazing.

Yeah.

And his new album just came out and that's, it doesn't like inspire me in the way where it gives me ideas, but it inspires me in the way of like, I just want to create. And so that's what I get when I listen to some of my favorite artists, like, you know, and like lately that's been like Saba, James Blake, Mac Miller. Like those have been, those, those have been 3 of the guys I've been listening to and Kanye, obviously, like always, um, you know, but like they, they give me that inspiration of like, I just want to create shit. Like I just want to make art and like, it'd be cool if like I was a musician, but I'm not like, I, comedy is the thing that I do. And like, I just want to make shit.

Oh yeah. Uh, have you ever seen James Blunt's Twitter? Speaking of a different James.

No, I have not. But somebody was, uh, showed me his tweet recently of like, if Spotify doesn't take down Joe Rogan's podcast, I will release new music. And that is hilarious. That's fucking—

that's scary. That's, that's terrifying. Really?

It's just scary. Yeah, it is scary.

I mean, yeah, some— somebody, somebody, uh, tweeted and was like, do you think James Blake, uh, James Blunt has run out of your beautiful money. And he just responded saying, no, that is great.

I love, I love like celebrities that are like that on Twitter where they're like, like just very— they're not afraid to laugh at themselves. And I think that shows like a real level of security that, you know, he's able to be like, yeah, my— like, people like my music, but it's a little corny. It's not for everyone. But like, I'm okay with that. And I really like that. I would hope to be like that. Yeah. I, you know, have his career for sure.

What avenues of social media have been biggest for you recently and how do you think about that kind of strategy?

So I'm still trying to figure out social media. I'm still, I'm not one of those, like, I know a few people who have like very popular Twitter feeds. Um, I think I prefer Instagram over Twitter. I think Twitter, um, can be a little toxic and a little too addictive. And it's, it's much easier to get away from negativity on Instagram than it is on Twitter. Like, Twitter is sort of like just a, like, cesspool of everyone's thoughts. And so, you know, I'll scroll and see, like, shit that makes me angry Shit that makes me depressed.

Shit that you gotta curate your feed, bro.

I know. And I've started, I've started muting people that where I'm like, I really, I see people mute words, unfollow some motherfuckers. Yeah. I, I've started, I, and then, but also like Twitter is a thing where like sometimes I'll see some really good jokes. Uh, I like using Twitter as a place to test out jokes.

Um, that's smart.

And like, I don't typically like expect anything to go viral. And so far I've been correct. But it's always a good place to test out jokes. And I see like, all right, I got a few likes on this. Like, I'll try this out. Instagram's been the best for connecting with people. I think because, you know, I mean, probably just like the interface, like the way it works, you know, Facebook, like they know what they're doing. But I mean, it's like, it's cooler. Facebook is just what it is now. Um, but like, that's, that's the thing. Like, when I meet other comics, like, it's, it's always like, oh, you're on Instagram, and then like we follow each other. And, you know, even for booking people for my shows, like, I just DM via Instagram and like people typically respond.

And, you know, that's so funny because for me, for tech and everything, it's just Twitter. Like, I— every interview that I've done has been via Twitter. Like, DMing with like CEOs and shit, it's just just Twitter.

That's interesting. I guess I do think that makes sense. I think part of— I think there's something about Instagram that lends itself to comedy better than Twitter. I think because in sort of like, you know, now that like they have like Reels and like videos, like it's very easy to be funny on Instagram in a way that's more obvious than on Twitter, where like— because Twitter Sorry, just, you know, food. Uh, we're saying Twitter is basically like, you never know who's joking. Like, there's always gonna be— and that'll happen on Instagram too. But, uh, you know, Instagram I think is maybe a safer space, which sounds weird to say, like, that any, uh, social media is a safe space, but it feels— it feels better for comedy, honestly. Like, it just feels like I can post stand-up on there I can, you know, post a tweet on there. Like, I can post like a joke written out. I can put a sketch on there, like just anything. And the way like the algorithm is designed and the user interface is like it— I'm trying to— like, it caters your feed. Instagram feels more like entertainment. That's what it is. That's how I like Instagram. I go on Instagram and the way that my feed is now, like, based on what I've— it's— I'm gonna see a bunch of NBA highlights. I'm gonna see— and I'm gonna see comedy. Like, that's mostly it, you know, where Twitter is gonna be a lot more stuff and a lot of it is not entertainment.

Yeah, got you, got you. Um, shit, what was I about to ask? Oh, do you use TikTok at all?

I don't. I should.

I—

but I, I have, uh— I've been a little, um, intimidated by TikTok.

I mean, you're just too mature for TikTok is what you're saying.

Yeah, I don't know about that. I mean, well, also, I like don't really— I like, when I was in a relationship, you know, my girlfriend would like send me TikToks all the time and I would laugh at them and like think they were funny. But like, I just— I've never like— I like have the app on my phone, I like never open it up. Yeah, which is fine. I don't need another app to waste my time. I have plenty.

Dude, I, I'm in the same boat. You know, when I do open it though, it's addicting as hell.

It is, it is. The few times I've opened it But I'd like, I go on Insta, like on Instagram sometimes I'll end up watching like Reels, which is the same thing, just on a different app. Um, yeah, I don't know. I, I think I, I just feel a little intimidated by it. And I think part of it is that I have, don't have a TikTok, so I have zero followers where like with Instagram and Twitter, like I've had them since like 9th or 10th grade. And so it's like, I've like at least have enough followers of just like mostly people I know that like, oh, this looks Fine. You know?

Yeah.

Like nobody's looking at this being like, who the fuck is this? Where like TikTok, like it's starting out zero is scary.

It is. Yeah, it is. Um, so do they make you dye your hair in Brooklyn?

Is that, uh, it's optional. Um, recommended. It's preferred.

It's preferred. Okay. That's, that's what I thought. I question, how was the moving process to Brooklyn? Did you have to like bring a moving truck or like a car on a New York City street? That sounds like the worst day of my life. Like, if I had to picture hell, it would be like moving in New York.

Yeah. So when I came down, I drove down in my car and my dad drove a U-Haul and he helped me move in. Fortunately, like where I live in Greenpoint, it's pretty easy to find parking because I live very close to a park. Parking, park. But yeah, I mean, driving through Manhattan can be a little daunting, but I've kind of gotten used to it. I don't drive in the city very much. But when I do, I drink Dos Equis. But yeah, I don't drive in the city a lot, but there's something that feels nice about having a car here. I think it's a sense of security. It's kind of like if I want to go anywhere, I can.

I could not imagine not having a car, especially with a dog if I need to like transport him.

Right. Yeah.

With it.

Yeah. That, that's important. I think that having it to me, that sounds much harder in the city is having a dog. Having a car is fine. I just move it, you know, like once a week. Having a dog, you gotta move it a lot more than once a week.

You've gotta move the dogs quite often. Yo, for real, having a dog is awesome. Except for at like 7:30 in the morning when he has to go out and I have to sleep and and it's just this, right? Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't collab well, you know. Nighttime, great, we're both, we're both asleep, easy, no issues. But yeah, so it goes, dude. Why are there— I feel like there's been less good comedy films over the last few years. Is that just me?

No, I— that's, that's like a common consensus. Um, I think a big part of it is that TV is better now. And okay, because you look at like what I think of as kind of like the golden age of comedy films, which is like, maybe it's, you know, romanticizing because it's when we were kids, but I think I've heard a lot of people that are older than us say similar things. So basically it's sort of like that, like Will Ferrell, like Vince Vaughn, Ben Stiller, Owen Wilson, um, you know, kind of era, like Jonah Hill, Seth Rogen. There's so many comedy stars and they were all coming up in movies. And now I think, well, stand-up is also bigger now, and so not as many comics have to act to, to make a living, I think, is maybe part of it. And the other part is that TV is so good, like TV is better than movies now, um, you know. And so there's still like a lot of good indie movies being made, but no, there's not like studio comedies. Like, the last big ones that I can think of would be like the 21 and 22 Jump Street feel like, and like Neighbors. Those feel like kind of, uh, like around like 2014, 2015 is kind of the tail end of that. Um, and we've still, we've had like a lot of movies that have been funny since then. I mean, I think like, like Lady Bird and Booksmart are like two that I think of. But there's something about like that, like mid-level studio comedy is kind of gone. And I think part of that is like HBO. And so, oh, back to what I was saying. So yeah, right. So like when like, uh, sort of like the early 2000s, early 2010s, like, uh, there was still like, we were moving into like the era of like prestige television, but with comedy it was still just sitcoms. And so like, you even look at like the good sitcoms of that era, which are amazing, like 30 Rock, The Office, How I Met Your Mother. Yeah, yeah, Scrubs. Like, like they're very good, but they're still— I'd say The Office and 30 Rock and Community, like they definitely play with the form a lot more than any sitcoms before them had, but they're still sitcoms, you know. They're still like episodic, 23 minutes a week, you know. Um, But then once we get into the, like, the streaming era, and basically I think, like, you know, Louie is the show that kind of revolutionized how TV comedies are made because it was basically like, oh, it doesn't have to be 23 minutes, it doesn't have to be 100% funny, like just jokes the whole way through. And I think that that's kind of given us, like, a new lane for inventive comedies. And, you know, I think that Yeah, rather than, than movies being the, the main place to go to for good comedy, it's, it's TV. And so, you know, since then, in the past decade, we've had, you know, um, some like really, you know, amazing comedy shows like Atlanta and BoJack Horseman, Crashing, Barry, um, Fleabag, uh, you know, just some like really incredible shows that otherwise might not have existed, might have been, uh, movies, you know, but now they're TV shows.

Um, so what's the, what's the plan to get you on TV? How, what's, what's the plan there?

Um, I don't know, I'm still figuring that out. I mean, I am working, I'm working on writing a series with, uh, with my friend, uh, my friend Peter Ackerman. Um, we're working on it and Yeah, I mean, that's all I can say about that. Um, um, you know, we're still just, we're just in the writing process. Um, and yeah, like hopefully, you know, try and do something with that. I think for right now, like standup is my main focus. I kind of feel like, um, it's a little hard to try and like work at everything at once. Like, you know, I haven't really been writing as much other stuff like screenplays and short stories and stuff like that. Since I've been back in New York because I've just been really focused on stand-up. And I think that, um, for now I want to work on that. Um, I do want to get more into acting, maybe make some more sketches. Um, but yeah, you know, just kind of take it as it comes and not try to rush anything.

Nice, man. Do you, uh, do you watch SNL? And the Please Don't Destroy guys are pretty funny.

I do, yeah. I actually, uh, Please Don't Destroy, yeah, those are like, those are some Brooklyn guys, or maybe they live in Manhattan, I don't know. I played basketball with Ben Marshall a few times.

Oh shit, yeah, awkward as fuck. And seems like a good guy.

Hilarious. Yeah, the Please Don't Destroy guys, they're very funny. I remember like, um, sort of like I'd seen them a few times at shows in New York, um, and thought they were really funny. And like, we know some people in common. And then they started to blow up over the pandemic. And I remember my, my friend Liam— he's another comic— he texted me and was like they're gonna be like the next Lonely Island. Like, this is gonna be like the next sketch group to be on SNL. And of course he was right. Like, they're amazing. They're so funny. Um, and like, they all got hired as writers and have their own videos on the show, and it's great. I think SNL's in a really good place right now. I think obviously, like, everyone romanticizes their, like, adolescence of, like, that show, but I do think when we were kids, like, it was a really incredible cast.

I think Bill Hader, Will Forte, Kristen Wiig Oh, I think it's great now, bro.

Jason Sudeikis, Will Forte, like just an incredible cast. But I think it's very good right now. Um, yeah, so Nukes is really funny. Alex Moffat, it is great. Um, Chris Redd's funny. Uh, Sarah Sherman, hilarious. Like, there's a lot of really funny people on it. The writing staff is, is really good. I think I think— I, I feel like the last few years were tough for them. I think Trump kind of ruined comedy, and I think the only good comedy to come out of the Trump era is I Think You Should Leave, which is just because it's like the antithesis of, of Trump in a lot of ways. Um, sorry, I got my throat hurting a little. I gotta drink some tea.

No worries, man, no worries.

Um, but yes, I, I think that SNL has a pretty good cast right now. Um, And I'm always excited to see like who's on that show. And like, obviously, like, you know, everyone who does stand-up, like, yeah, that's a dream of mine is to like be on that show.

Fair enough, fair enough. So why, why do people love Pete Davidson? Why do I love Pete Davidson?

Like, I don't know, I, I think he's— I mean, I think he's very charismatic. Um, I think he has a lot of the same charm as Adam Sandler and Andy Samberg. Um, I think I fall into that camp as well. Um, I know that like those are people that like I've— all three of them are people like I've been compared to, both like in terms of just like my physical appearance and also like comedically.

Um, the NJB life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for real. Um, but yeah, I think he's just— he's got a charm to him that it's really the same thing that Sandler had where like even like when he's not doing something that's, that's, that's funny, you're just like, there's something about this guy. And obviously like, kind of like, obviously a lot of people hate him in this, and like a lot of people hate Sandler too. I think that's kind of turned around a little bit. I think Sandler's getting a lot more love than hate now. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I'd say of those three though, like Andy Samberg is the one who I feel like is, uh, sort of like the least divisive. Like, I don't really know anyone who doesn't like Andy Samberg.

Yeah, I don't know anyone who dislikes Andy Samberg.

Never.

I've never heard somebody say a bad word about that man.

Yeah, but no, Pete Davidson, I mean, he's a— I don't know, he's a talented guy. Um, yeah, yeah, it is one. I don't know, I don't know.

No, yeah, I agree, man. He seems dope. Like, uh, King of Staten Island was pretty cool.

Yeah, King of Staten Island's a good movie. I liked Big Time Adolescence as well. Um, I thought he was funny in The Suicide Squad.

Yeah, I think he's a talented dude. Um, oh shit, what was— I'm blanking. I had another question lined up, bro. It was too easy. Um, you've been reading anything?

Yeah, yeah, I, I still— I try and read every day. The last book I read took me a little while. I've read, you know, Charlie Kaufman, the filmmaker?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so he wrote a novel called Antkind. Um, I just read that. I just finished that.

What's it about?

Um, so it's like, you know, you've seen his movies, at least some of them.

They're weird as hell, but they're awesome.

Yeah, it's, it's like that. It's very absurdist. It's about, uh, a film critic who sees like the last work of this dying filmmaker that's taken him like 100 years to make. And it's— the movie is 3 months long, and then he forgets the movie, and then, uh, he has to like remember everything that happened in the movie. And it's— the whole thing is just very absurd. Um, it's very funny. Uh, I think it's a satire, but it's like kind of like how I feel about a lot of his movies, where I'm like, is this smart? Like, I don't even know, you know? Like, I don't even know like if there is meaning in this. But there are definitely points where I felt like, oh, that's pretty— that's clever. You know, I think it's very funny. I laughed out loud reading it, which doesn't happen with a lot of books. I thought it was great. And then I just started reading this manga that my friend gave me. It's called Goodnight Punpun. It's been pretty good so far.

Nice. One sec.

I'll be right back.

I'm putting the dog in his crate.

Okay.

Yeah, man. I had an interview today and it was for like a content and community position at a venture capital firm. And I was like, yeah, like I think we should really do a podcast. It'd be great to like tell founder stories. He's like, the world does not need another podcast. I was like, yeah, but I wanna make one.

So I'm gonna make one. I feel the same way. And you know, obviously like I had that podcast that I was doing over the pandemic that I've kind of abandoned. Maybe I'll return to at some point. It is funny though. And I like tried to do a bit about it at some point, but I don't know if I really got it right, but just like, it is kind of funny that everyone's like, there's too many podcasts, but nobody's ever like, there's too many books. Like you say, you wanna write a book. Nobody's ever like, do we really need more of those? You know, they're just, I mean, they might like be dismissive, but like not for that reason.

Yo, big facts. Like I think everybody has an individual viewpoint that's interesting. And so whether it's just your own personal podcast, or you wanna do it about a specific theme, like go for it. But it's just fun to like record these combos. Like I was, I, I recorded one with my buddy Liam the other day and just going back and listening to it. Like I just picked up stuff, A, about how I was speaking and different things that like I could improve as a speaker. And then B, also just picked up insights that I missed and remembered stuff that I totally forgot. And it's awesome.

Yeah, I mean, podcasts are interesting because conversations are interesting. And I mean, it's, it's that simple. And that's kind of why, like, I don't— like, I think, like, yes, like, everyone has a podcast now. And, like, does everyone need a podcast? No, but who cares? Just don't listen, you know? Like, don't be a dick. Just, just don't listen. There's a million podcasts that I don't listen to. I know a lot of people that have podcasts. I don't listen to them. You know, it's fine.

Uh, yeah, it's not like I'm gonna listen to my own, so. Right.

Yeah. And it's like, even, even if it's just benefiting the people that make it, like, even if people don't listen to it, like, if it does something for the person making it, I think that's great.

Yeah. Podcasting as a form of— I don't want to say therapy— like, as a form of expression. Is that—

I don't know. I think so. I, I think I would agree with that. I I mean, I also like— back to like you asking me like what inspires me, I think podcasts have been really inspiring. And I think, you know, a lot of the like courage that I've had to do stand-up like would not have existed without it. And like Pete Holmes' podcast was really like pivotal in me starting doing stand-up. Um, just hearing like comedians talk and just being like, oh, there's people. Yeah, you know, I think that's a big part of what it is, is like You know, good podcasts are like my favorite podcasts, which, um, you know, are like Pete Holmes, Mark Maron, Conan. I love all their podcasts. I think it's, you know, just great conversations. Um, and I mean, there's other podcasts that I listen to that are less conversation-based. Like, I don't know, have you listened to Dissect?

Uh, I've listened a couple times. The music one, right?

Yeah, Dissect is really great. I really like that one. Seth Rogen put out like a storytelling podcast recently. Okay, nice. That I really enjoy. Oh, I read his book recently. I know, I know you're a big fan of him, so I feel like I think you would like that book if you haven't read it already.

Nice. I, um, I agree with that though. Podcasts and Twitter and whatnot have really, um, humanized creators in different ways, and like famous people and comedians or, or tech people or whatever. Like having— I don't know, it's just, uh Like I, when I was younger, I remember like almost idolizing like famous people, like looking up to these people. I mean, it's like, oh, they're just fucking humans. Like who are trying to figure it out. And like, also I used to think like people just had to be naturally super, super good at things. And like everybody sucks at things at first and then you just put in work and work and work and iterate over time and keep iterating. And it's, um, yeah, so many realizations. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I think in some ways I think like podcasts maybe lead to more idolization and less in other ways. Like, I do think that there's sort of like, like a lot of podcasts, like I think like Joe Rogan is one that I think of specifically, like, true, I have like this cult following and I think like have maybe like, you know, definitely elevated him to a higher status than I think he should have. Um, where like, I think he's, he's a pretty good comedian, you know. He's not— I don't think he's like one of the best ever, but he's pretty good. Um, I don't think he's a very good interviewer. Um, I, I used to listen to his podcast like whenever he had people on that I liked. I think he's pretty repetitive in what he says. Um, and I'm not— and this is— it doesn't even have like to have to do with like any of his like—

no, dude, I agree. I listened to 2 episodes and all he talked about, it felt like at least was He talked about LA versus Austin, and he talked about COVID and that seemed like it just for—

yeah. And I haven't— the last time I listened to an episode, I remember he had Jon Stewart on like during COVID and I'm a huge fan of Jon Stewart, so I listened to that. And yeah, I don't know, I just didn't feel like he was saying anything interesting. Like, I felt like, oh, Jon Stewart is a genius, like I knew that already. I think that— I think that part of like what people relate to in Joe Rogan is that he's not a genius. Um, he's very, very smart.

He act— I think he acts dumb.

No, I do. I think— I'm not saying he's— I don't think he's a very intelligent guy. I think he plays it down, I think, which I don't like. I think— and I think a lot of comedians do that because as a comedian there's this idea that you have to be relatable, but not like— you're not going to be relatable to everyone. And I think that when your audience is dumber than you you maybe, um, advertise the dumber sides of your personality a little bit more. And I think that he does that. And I don't— like, I don't think you get as successful as he is doing what he does without being smart. Like, they're— yeah, like, like, good comedians are smart, um, and they can pretend to be dumb but they're not. And I think that he— I don't know, I don't even know where I'm going with this.

No, I got you though. I mean, people are calling him idiots or whatever, like, you know, like, yeah, I think—

I don't think he's dumb. I think that— I think he's not like— he's not a genius though, that— and that's the thing. And so many comedians, so many, um like intellectuals, for lack of a better word, are intellectual, you know, and that's, and that's something that he's not, right? And so that, that allows people to find him more accessible than somebody, um, you know, like say Jon Stewart, right?

Or, um, yo, to switch the topic, what's the difference between running and walking? Like what mile per hour is Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, I've been thinking about that since I went on a run earlier.

You know, I actually, I think about that every time I'm on a treadmill because there, there is a point where, exactly where it stops being, uh, where like you start out at a walk, like when you're at like 1 or whatever it is, and there's a point where it gets to be a run, but it happens gradually. Uh, I feel like, is it different for everyone? Maybe. I think it's— is the setting on a treadmill, is the level, is that miles per hour?

Like, I, I would assume so.

So like, I guess like, I think when it's 5 is when it's— but that's like a light jog, right?

I mean, it depends who's running. You're, you're probably a faster runner than me. If I—

but right, but if I did run 5 miles and it took me an hour, like, I'd be tired, you know? Like, I would— that would be a run. Um, I feel like that's where I think— I think 5 is where it becomes a run, and I think anything below that is a walk.

It's a hot take.

Yeah. What do you think?

Somewhere between 3 and 5, somewhere around there. I think it depends on the person as well. What are you, uh, are you still playing basketball a lot? What are you doing for exercise?

Yeah, I am still playing basketball. I'm in this, like, Comedians Basketball Group.

That— wait, isn't that like a thing in California or something at somebody's house or whatever?

That was a thing that, um, um, Garry Shandling had. Yeah, yeah, he would have like weekly games. But now this is at a gym in New York, like, uh, but yeah, that's how I played with like Ben Marshall. Um, like Alex Moffat was there before, um, so I played with him too.

How'd you find this?

Uh, just through comics that I knew. I, I You just weren't scouring, uh, fucking Craigslist at the bottom? No, I, I was— I did this basketball tournament that, uh, this comic I know, Joel Wachowski, he like does for his birthday every year. And then a couple guys from there like invited me to join their like pickup games.

And yeah, so back to why comedy movies.

And I do— and I, and I do yoga. That's— I do like 10 minutes of yoga every day.

Nice, man. I've been doing a lot of yoga. Um, So back to why comedy hasn't been as good. Why hasn't rap been as good either? Why'd that go down?

I think just volume. I think there's just a lot of it, and I think it's the same thing with comedy. I don't think that either of them are any worse than they've ever been. I think there's just— it's very easy to become an entertainer now. Like, everyone is a, is a, uh, like, I might— a minor celebrity in their own way. Like, we all have We have followers, right? We're not like, we should not have followers. We're not famous. Right. Like, that's weird. Like, that is weird to me. And I think some— I never thought about that, but that is a bit about how like Jesus had 12 followers. Right. Like I shouldn't have like 500, you know? Um, I think that's somebody's bit. I don't know.

I like that. Yeah.

If it's not, then I came up with it. If it is somebody else. Um, But yeah, I think that's a big part of it, is that like the internet just makes it easier to become, uh, whatever you're trying to be, whether it's a rapper, whether it's a comedian, you know, actor, whatever it is. Um, I think there's just volume. I think there's a lot more avenues. There's— it used to just be you were a radio artist or you were like an underground artist, and now it's like there's like a million different streaming platforms and like so many niche subgenres. Um, I think that, yeah, there's a lot of bad rap out right now. Um, but there's also a lot of really good stuff. Like, I think in a lot of ways, like, rap is— and comedy are both, like, better and worse than they've ever been.

So what rap do you think is good right now besides, say, Saba, for example?

Right now, I, I really, um I don't know, it's hard. I guess I am starting to get to that age where like I don't really listen to people that are younger than me that much. I love Baby Keem, I think he's amazing. Okay, um, I'm a big fan of his. Um, I'm trying to think of like more young rappers that I like because obviously I'm gonna go in the direction of like Kanye, Tyler, The Creator, J. Cole, but like those are like—

that's our high school era.

Yeah, those are people that have been around for a while, so I feel like I do have to Trying to—

if we're going young people, Polo G is pretty good.

I haven't really listened— I mean, Lil Baby, I have not really listened to him outside of features, but I think he's very talented. Um, Roddy Ricch, I've— is, is another— like, most of them I haven't heard them outside of features, whether it's like—

so what's the take on Jack Harlow?

Oh, Jack Harlow is great. Jack Harlow is very talented, dude. I think Lil Nas X, I think, is, is really good. I, I think Lil Nas X is very, very good.

Yeah, I agree. Jack Harlow's good. And if you're hating on Jack Harlow, you're probably just a jealous white boy.

It really is. And that's the funny thing, is that the only people that hate white rappers are white people that want to be rappers. Like, that's it. Like, nobody— I mean, honestly, like, I don't think anybody Black gives a shit about Macklemore. Like, it's only white people that want the clout of hating Macklemore. And you know what? Macklemore's fine. He's not like the GOAT. He's— should he have won a Grammy over Kendrick, Kanye, Drake, and Jay-Z? No, absolutely not. Is he a terrible rapper? No, he's fine. He's— if he didn't win that Grammy, people would just be like, oh yeah, it's a solid album. Yeah, he's all right. Um, I don't think anybody hates Action Bronson though. He seems to be like the one He's like barely white, like in like a cultural way. Like he's, he's so New York that he transcends race.

He's Buddha, bro. Yeah, dude, you ever listen to Tyga while you're working out? That's like another level of baller.

Uh, I probably have. Oh, I think, yeah, I mean, I guess Playboy Carti. I, I liked his first couple albums. I don't know, that's no sense. Yeah, I don't know, I guess there's— I, I feel like I'm already starting to get out of touch with rap. Yeah, yeah, maybe Keem is the only like super new rapper that I really listen to. Um, and even like him, like, I, you know, he's got like the Kendrick, Kanye, Travis Scott cosigns, and so that was sort of like what brought me to him. Um, I don't really listen to Jack Harlow, but I think he's very good. I, I do like Lil Nas X, although is he a rapper, is he a pop star, like, who knows, who cares, but I think he's really good. Um, oh, JID is great. He's older, but he's sort of still like on the rise. I think like that whole, that whole crew, sort of like the whole like, like Dreamville crew, like Earthgang, Cozz, Boss, JID, like I think they're all, they're all really good. Um, yeah, fair enough.

I only listen to rap when I'm working out. That's like the only time, uh, really. And then the rest is just like straight podcast if I'm walking and stuff.

Yeah, I, I go through phases.

Oh, that is so cute.

How old is he?

He's about 1 and a half. I got him in May of last year.

Oh, baby. Yeah, little baby boy.

Yo, I, uh, this has been fun. I probably gotta take a nap.

Okay. Yeah, no, of course. Um, yeah, it's been really nice, um, talking to you. It's been a while.

Um, dude, it's been forever. We gotta, we gotta catch up.

Yeah, let's catch up sometime for, you know what, and let's not, let's not commodify it. Let's catch up just for us. No one.

Yeah, let's catch up. No audience, just, just us. What about God? What about God?

Audience of God. Okay, you know, maybe we'll livestream it, who knows. All right, love you, man.

Love you too, bro. Bye.