#37: Abhishek Shah — The Art of Newsletters

Welcome to another episode of Cyber Patterns. Today we have Abhishek Shah on. He is the writer behind Psychology of Marketing, a newsletter with over 17,000 subscribers that gives tips on marketing, sales, all that kind of stuff. He is a brilliant mind, just, you know, a young kid in college right now, but one of the hardest working hustlers in the newsletter game. So really appreciate his time. I hope you enjoy this conversation and learn a lot about the art of the newsletter and so much more. All right. Enjoy. How are you doing?

I'm good. How are you?

Solid, solid. Just doing some writing, getting a post ready for tomorrow. So all good, dude. What, what is happening in the world of newsletters and Feel like you got some big news that you're probably gonna be sharing soon, right?

Yeah, hopefully, hopefully soon enough. But what is happening in the world of newsletters? Uh, get, I like, I honestly don't know enough yet, but I feel like give me a couple months and I'll know enough cuz like I'm super into the game now, like getting very interested and like learning a lot from like a lot of these people. So trying to figure it out, trying to crack the code, but yeah.

Got you. Got you. How much can you say about, I guess, Psychology and Marketing and what's going on there and the future there?

Yeah. So as of now, Psychology and Marketing is like 17,000 subscribers. And that's, I don't know, like I was 2,000 subscribers about 4 months ago, 5 months ago. So I'm very happy with the growth and about to hit like around 30,000 in, um, like the revenue run rate. So in a year I'd be able to earn 30,000. Hopefully by the end of next year that's even more. And yeah, like hopefully some exciting news that I can share with Twitter and with you in the next year. But, um, let's see, let's see if that ends up happening, you know.

Fair enough. So what has been, uh, your main strategy with growth? Has it been Twitter, LinkedIn? What, uh, what's been helping you most?

So it, it all started with, um, Twitter just cuz that's where I was growing my audience anyways. And then I saw a lot of people like grow successful, very interesting newsletters from Twitter and their audience there. So I, I brought it as Twitter as well at first, and that's been the main driver of growth. More recently I did switch to, I'm switching to a LinkedIn-first strategy cuz I feel like it's less saturated. And if I prioritize for like the LinkedIn algorithm in terms of content, the way to write and all that stuff, I feel like I have a better shot at standing out. So I'm going LinkedIn first now with Twitter, like to repurpose the content. And, um, the Beehive recommendations have always been like a huge driver. So getting those relevant like recommendations from other newsletters, that's been like a more steady source of growth.

Got you. Yeah, you got to turn mine back on, buddy.

Yeah. Yeah, I will. I will. I'm like rotating through a couple, so.

All right. All right. Yeah. Super helpful. So your, your plan is to like start multiple newsletters, right?

Mm-hmm. I mean, the plan isn't like to start multiple newsletters, but I just end up starting like one more every now and then. So yeah, like that, that wasn't the plan for sure. The plan is to stay heads down focused on psychology and marketing. And grow that. And like, I feel like that's still what I'm doing. Like I'm, that's my main priority, but there's just other stuff on this side where like, for example, Newsletter 101 is like a daily newsletter where I share just like one resource on the newsletter game. That's how I'm keeping up with this stuff. And like, I feel like a lot of the people, like a lot of my readers also want to keep up with what's going on in the newsletter game. So I just have like 3 lines and one link. That's all, that's all that's there to the newsletter. And it goes on like every day. And then Saturday I send like a roundup email of like all the links with one more. So I've been doing that on this side and that's more of like a documenting my newsletter journey as compared to like doing an actual newsletter. 'Cause I don't think I'll do, I'll be doing sponsors and all of that for a while. It's more so just to like share what I'm learning and keep everyone else in the loop.

Got you. So how have you been finding sponsors? Obviously CyberPatterns has been a sponsor. Yeah. How have you been finding other ones?

Yeah. I mean, like some really cool sponsors like you have reached out to me on Twitter and like, that's how the convo got started. And then I also like internalized the system. So there, there's this guy on Twitter called Marketing Max and he, he showed me how to do it. And basically what you do is in your classified ad section. So for anyone writing a newsletter, usually there's like a primary ad slot and then a classified ad slot. So for the classified ad slot, after you put in the links and your sponsors and like just resources that you find interesting on your own, um, at the bottom I put this like, um, one line where I said all, all the lines in bold are sponsored ads, grab yours here. And then the grab yours here is like hyperlinked. So when people click on that stuff, it takes them to a Typeform. The Typeform is like, I don't know, you can fill up like 2 to 3 minutes. It asks you for your budget. It asks you for what your goal is, what your ideal audience is, and it actually has a quote from you on the like landing page. So yeah, and like once you go through all of that stuff, it's basically for me to know whether we're a good fit. And then if I think that like me and the sponsor are a good fit, that I can actually drive good results, I reply to them like, oh, like, you know, like I think this will fit your budget pretty well. And then I give them a specific, you know, like a packet or like a bundle basically.

Got you. Got you. Makes sense. That's super exciting. So in our DMs, we were previously talking, you want to kind of focus on the growth side of things. Curious what that entails and what you think kind of just the future of growth on Twitter is, LinkedIn as well, and like how you're going to be investing your time.

Yeah, no, for sure. So I've been thinking this, thinking about this quite a lot. And the one thing is like, I don't know what the future of Twitter is. So like with that, I feel like, and I'm not scared either. Like, I feel like we just have to like adapt as to what happens with the platform. So I'm not scared about like the future of Twitter, like a lot of like the platform, like the people are talking about. I'm like sort of excited to like see what happens, how Elon Musk changes it and like how we can adapt to it. Maybe that could be even better for us. Because he has spoken about creators monetizing their content more. So, so let's see, like, I'm keeping an open mind about that. But when it comes to LinkedIn, I feel like I'm going to go with the LinkedIn first strategy. I'm like experimenting with like short-form posts, with long-form posts, with carousels that come from Twitter, with, um, you know, like different, different like templates where you start with something like a one-liner or like an insight and you end with a question. Because I've read that like when, um, you get like replies on LinkedIn, that's like a very big sign of like momentum racking up. So it's always, at least with LinkedIn, I think with Twitter as well, it's, um, replies, then probably reposts, and then likes. So I'm trying to prioritize for the replies first, and also like trying on just like small tests because I just love like experimenting with the content. So lately, like last week for example, I tried out this thing where I started adding emojis to the first line of every like LinkedIn post. Like if it's about like clocks and like I posted something about Rolex ads, I put like a watch emoji and like that, that seemed to do well. And I've seen a lot of other people put like in, in my niche, for example, they put a brain emoji because like marketing psychology, right? So, and I've seen like those do pretty well. So like those sort of small experiments that hopefully will compound over time.

Got you. That makes sense with replies. I've definitely found that with mine as well, that whichever ones have, you solid replies on them and have some engagement, do better, you know, which is for the, for good or bad, cuz sometimes, you know, people can abuse that and turn it into just, you know, rage, you know, kind of just getting angry comments on purpose. Yeah.

That's true.

You know, which is, you know, how it works. That's clickbait. That's how a lot of legacy media does it. But anyways, so speaking of legacy media, that just made me think about it. What do you think about like where legacy media is going? Do they, you know, I feel like media right now, it's, it's us, you know, it's newsletters, it's individual creators who are building their own thing. Like how can, how can Wall Street Journal and stuff compete with that?

Yeah, I think, I think it's very interesting because when you say legacy media, the funny thing is like I usually don't think of, or maybe this is me, or maybe it's like a byproduct of like my generation or my time. But like, when you say legacy media, I don't think of the Wall Street Journals, the Axios, and all of that stuff first. My mind usually just goes to like Morning Brew and The Hustle. Like, that's just how like my brain is wired. So I think there's definitely like a shift there. I wouldn't call Morning Brew or Hustle like legacy media, but when you say media, those are the first names that come up. And I think there's a good reason behind that. One is like they're doing it different. They're tailoring the content to their audience with their tone. With the way they write it and all of that stuff. So I definitely think that's pretty cool. Um, I also think they're like a little less biased in like the way they write, which, which is good for me because I'm into— I'm like an international student. I don't really have very strong political opinions on like the scene in the US, so it's good to like read content from like a very, you know, neutral point of view. And I think they do that well, and they also just make it fun, right? So both of Both of those things combined think like, make me think that like those will be the next actual legacy media. And then going forward, the future looks more, um, like face-focused or like personal brand-focused. And you can see that with like the Morning Brew as well, right? Like I think they're working with creators now. So even they sort of like, you know, sense that pulse that the media is now gonna go from like a company-focused. Asset to like more of an individual-first asset. And then like the brand is in the back end. And I think that's pretty cool. And I think that's also very helpful because it's easier to grow a personal brand than to grow a business brand. So I'm excited to see how that pans out. And I'm especially excited for the future of media in India because that's where I'm from. Like super bullish on the country, like super bullish on the media space as well. So I'm excited to see how those two things intersect. And maybe I can be somewhere around that intersection, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. 100%. What makes you so bullish on media in India?

A couple of reasons, actually. So one is that the number of people who have access to internet in India is rapidly increasing. And like the day we hit 100%, that's going to be about 1.4, 1.5 billion people. Who have access to the internet, and that's a lot of people, right? So that's one. Just the numbers game itself is a lot, and those people getting access to phones, to the internet, is a huge step towards like empowering the media space. So that's one. Um, the second one I would say is, um, education in India. The general trend, it's improving. So that means the content is going to be more well received. They're probably going to be more curious, more eager about the content. So I'm betting on that as well. And third is just like, YouTube is a massive asset in India. Like, I feel like a lot of the people I know, even in like small cities and stuff like that, they all learn through YouTube, which is just like a massive sign of the fact that like, you know, media companies, the ones that actually provide value first and like educate first, those people have a lot of leverage that they can like utilize in, in these like YouTube niches, right? And that's how I've been thinking about it. Like if I were to go and build a media company in India today, maybe not today, but like I do want to do it a couple years down the road, I would go YouTube first as opposed to Twitter first or LinkedIn first because India lives on YouTube. So that's, that's sort of my like take on why I think India is like a good place to start and also like why I would go YouTube first.

That's so cool. I'm definitely gonna clip that video cuz that's awesome. I feel that also back to, you know, legacy brands and stuff like that. Like I was working at the Defiant, I was a staff reporter and you know, at some point every small newsletter, every small brand becomes a legacy brand. And I think you're 100% right that the way that legacy brands or larger brands can stay in touch and still seem, you know, relevant and cool is by, you you know, hiring creators and, and, you know, sponsoring and working with solo creators. Like Morning Brew does it with Money with Katie, you know, other brands do it. Um, I think, yeah, um, some have failed, some have been successful. The Hustle does it very well. Um, another one that, that kills it. Um, but yeah, really exciting and, and something that I hope to do, you know, over the long term with Cyber Patterns as well is, you know, have, have, um, you know, other people representing the brand sort of helping out as well, um, which is really exciting. Um, but yeah, I guess, um, let me see. Oh dude, thank you so much. The giveaway strategy. I appreciate that. Got like 100, dude, 130 emails, which is, you know, pretty, pretty awesome. Um, and so Noah and I were pretty happy. How often do you do that? Uh, do giveaways and, and free products?

So I do them like once a month, I would say, or like maybe like once in like 40, 50 days, just because like one, it's mainly me repurposing the same like swipe file that I have on marketing psychology again and again and again. And every time it gets me a new audience, which is just like amazing because you build it once and then you just like keep doing the same thing again and you're getting like access to new eyes and stuff. So it works out pretty well in that sense. Um, the reason why I don't do it probably more often is you, and you might notice this as well, that the quality of subscribers isn't as high as you would want it to be because a lot of these people come for the free stuff, right? They come for like the free content and as soon as they get that, they might churn and you don't want that. So I'm just trying to strike a balance where like, I would say like 80% of my growth should be like organic and 20% should be through the giveaway. And the reason I keep doing it regardless of like a somewhat lower quality subscribers is that the ones that stick around even after putting in their email and not churning after the free gift, those people have like an open rate that comes very close to my average open rate. So if my average open rate is like 50 or like 51%, all of these people have an open rate of like 47% or 48%. And I think I'm very happy with that. So that's why I keep going with it.

Got you. Got you. Um, shit, just forgot my question. Oh, what does the average day look like for you, man? Cause I was talking to Noah and he's like, man, Abhi just hustles. Like he is working all the time. So what does the average day look like?

Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't think, I don't think I hustle that hard to be very honest. I've seen a lot of people like work harder than me, but my average day, it looks like I sleep at about like 1, um, wake up at 7:30 because the Twitter grind starts at 8 and like I want to be up for that. Like, you know, just be on the platform and like engage with whoever replies to my comments because I think like one, like that's just like a great way to like build an actual community and like, you know, like foster like sort of a connection with the audience. So I get up at like 7:30, I'm on Twitter, LinkedIn, uh, or maybe like LinkedIn and then Twitter till like, um, about 9, 9:30. And then my classes start about that time. So that's when I head to class. Classes get over at around, I would say, 4. So, and during these classes, I'm like either like actually paying attention or, or I'm still on Twitter or LinkedIn. So like it, it depends on my mood on the day. And then after 4 o'clock, it's like, come back. I work till like, uh, 4 to like 7, take a break for dinner, work like probably for a couple more hours. And then like after 10, I'm just like chilling with my friends. We like play poker or something, watch a movie, just, you know, chill like you do in college. And yeah, and then I sleep at like 1. And then obviously like making time for like workouts and stuff in the middle, cuz like going to like work out with my friends is like one of the best parts of the day.

So good, good to hear, man. That, that sounds great. I love the fact that waking up early for the Twitter grind, like respect that. I think one of my, you know, my competitive advantage as well, and I think the same as you, is we love the disgusting grind of Twitter. It's just like, I love it. You know, like, you know, Twitter, you know, a lot of people hate on it and, you know, it's distracting sometimes from other things. It takes me away from other things, but like, I love it. You know, it's just so much fun. So you can't beat somebody who's having a lot of fun, right?

That's true. Yeah.

Yeah, dude, this has been great. I like to keep my podcast short, you know, 20 to 25 minutes. And so this has been a great conversation. It's going to go live on Saturday. And that's, that's really it, man. I really appreciate it. And yeah, thank you.

Yeah, thanks for having me on, man. It was a lot of fun chatting.