Jason Levin on why Memes are Every Brands Most Powerful Tool, Leveraging Your Punchable Face & More

We're going, we're going, we're going.

Are we recording?

Yeah, we're rolling. We don't even do an intro, so it's like you're the meme lord.

I am, I am the meme lord.

What the fuck is that?

Like, what is the meme lord? Uh, I make memes for brands, I make memes for myself. Um, I wrote a book called Memes Make Millions, and now I built meme software called Meme Lord Technologies. So Every type of meme product you can imagine and meme-y thing I work on.

So yeah, I, uh, yeah, I, I refuse to say the word meme in normal conversation. Yeah, yeah, it's meme-y.

Yeah, meme-y. My mom says meme. Yeah, even after I wrote the book, she still doesn't really, like, understand what memes are. Also, my dad just, like, sends me funny pictures. I'm like, Dad, that's a meme. He's like, no, that's just, like, a cartoon. It's like, no, that's That's a meme, Dad. No, no, it's just a cartoon.

So what is a meme?

What is a meme? So, I mean, memes originally come from the, you know, the book Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, biological or evolutionary biologist, meaning, you know, an idea that replicates itself over and over again, right? So an organism. And what that, you know, means in today's world is like a JPEG that gets spread, gets remixed, whatever, right? It could also mean just words. Texts themselves can be a meme. You know, symbols can be a meme. American flag, swastika, Swastika, all memes, right? All memes that have been remixed, right? Swastika was a Hindu symbol, right? Thousands of years ago. So these are all memes. In my work specifically, it tends to be just like funny images, funny viral videos that we work with for brands and creators. But yeah.

So have you finished high school yet?

That's a great question. I do have a baby face.

Yeah, me too, by the way. I'm like 64 years old.

Dude, I'm like 77, so I get it. No, I finished high school. I made it out somehow. Yeah.

When did you start playing with memes? Like, for real?

When did I start making memes for business?

No, for you, for playing with them.

When'd you start being like, I guess a few years ago, 3, 4 years ago. So I was doing a lot of ghostwriting for founders, and so all these founders started requesting, you know, funny content. And like, I've always been just like a natural funny person. And so I started, you know, just making memes and why not? And it turns out like they actually needed the funny content a lot more, right? And then once ChatGPT hit, I knew that the internet would just be filled with boring AI slop. So I leaned into the funniness. I wrote the book Memes Make Millions. I built the software. And, you know, now, you know, so many more founders are shitposting or making memes in general because it's the only way to stand out, you know, in a world full of boring AI crap, being unhinged and funny, which, you know, I tend to be good at.

I already don't want to punch him in the face.

Yeah, I have a very punchable face. Like, no, that's very surprising.

Yeah, I agree.

You got a punchable face. I have a very punchable face.

It was a bet whether we'd want to punch you in the face, but I— because like, we got a joke There's another joke and we were like, oh, I wonder if I'm gonna like, cause Atu brings in the worst guests. I get it.

Like, I have an extremely punchable face. Like people see me on the subway and just get angry.

Really?

Yeah. It's great.

Have you ever been like attacked?

I've gotten in fights, like arguments and one of them went pretty viral.

What's that?

Tell us about that. Yeah. So I was doing this subway reader, like viral comedy thing where I would read really offensive books on the subway, like How to Live with a Small Penis or like— Why is that offensive?

That's kind of nice.

I mean, that's just like my life guide anyway. This guy like is giving—

I didn't know you wrote a book.

That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good book.

So this guy like just starts yelling at me because I'm like sitting too close to him apparently, but there's like a seat in between us. He's getting mad and my friend is filming this whole time.

Was he homeless or was he—

No, he was just like a real person. He actually worked for the orchestra, like the Philharmonic.

Oh, that guy is a dick for sure.

It got 2 million views and like he, you know, messaged us after like just calling me a punk. Kid or whatever, which I am. So, um, dude, correction, yeah, meme lord. So he starts threatening to like beat me up and shit. I'm like, you know, dude, like, when's the last time you got laid? That's what I said to him. And oh, it just went crazy. And my friend is filming this whole time, and I'm like, he's filming, like, you know this is gonna go on the internet. He's like, who cares, 5 people will see it. I'm like, you don't understand, like, are you sure you want to say this right now? And like, you know, it went viral. Yeah, I warned him. I tried warning him. And there's a point in the video where you see me and my video guy make eye contact and we're just like, we've got gold, baby. Like, we got gold. And we've done a lot of, you know, silly New York viral comedy, street comedy, but that was gold.

Like, can I come to this sometime?

Yeah, I mean, we film on the subway, uh, you know, every, uh, every, every night at 2 AM. We're the guys who try to push people over, over into the subway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We were early on that trend.

Yeah, dude, that— you're not even old enough. That's just—

yeah. Oh yeah, that, that's—

when I first moved to the city in '15, that was Big.

Yeah, yeah. Nice, nice. You get in on that early? You invest early?

No, I try to, um, I try to stay out of prison. Like, my actual tagline is stay out of jail.

That's— I mean, that's good advice. It's hard to follow, I find.

I have no problem. So if you stay out of jail, you know, it's— there's like a chance that your life's gonna go better. There's a whole bunch of people in the world, you— when you say that, you're like, Oh shit, I shouldn't have said that.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, because they're like quasi-criminals or they look like criminals. Yeah, you know, and you're like, oh, you look like a criminal. Yeah, I just said that to you. You think— now you think—

I mean, I have a very punchable face, you know, I'm okay with that.

I think we— I think I don't want to punch you in the face. I want to go to the prison. I want to go out.

That's literally the first time somebody has ever set up with him.

He'll be good.

No, I want to go and get you punched in the face.

Ah, thank you.

That, like, and then the 5, 7 million views. But I don't want to punch you. I think it's actually good. So we're happy. We're already happy. This is a great, this is a great start.

Quickly, how many, how many views would warrant a punch in the face? Like, what would you be happy with to get punched in the face on YouTube?

I'd do it for free. For free? I like that guy. Zero views?

Yeah, I like this guy a lot.

That's good.

That's just the best answer.

So you're just living your dream.

I am, yeah. So I've wanted to be a creator since I was a little kid, you know, 10, 12, making YouTube videos. And, you know, I was at my parents' house just doing it in like basement kind of thing. Nothing goes well, nothing pops off. And then, you know, you do it for 10 years and you get good, tons of projects and eventually start making money and it works. Yeah, it takes a long time. A lot of looking like an idiot to not getting paid to then look like an idiot and get paid for looking like an idiot, which has been the plan the whole time.

The whole time.

I just want—

dude, you never serious content?

Nah, I mean, I write serious blogs about marketing and stuff like that because that gets the bread. But like, I like being an idiot. Like, my long-haul goal, like, I do stand-up, I do like, you know, the silly pranks. Like, I want a silly TV show type shit or like whatever. Like, that's the long-haul goal is just like, you know, laughing and make creative, silly content. You know, that's always been my goal. And like, it's very— it's a lot easier to make—

How much money do you make? I mean, like, range. Give us a big range. So it's like less than $100,000, less than $500,000.

Like less than 7 figures.

Okay, less than 7 figures. Perfect.

Okay. Yeah.

Thank you for that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, I don't want you to out Jason Levin.

But like last year, less than 7 figures. Right. But this year—

Next year.

This year we'll see. This year. This year I should hit 7 AR. Yeah. If things work. Yeah, I should hit 7 this year.

Well, there you go.

Yeah.

I think, I think me and Chris are already amazed at how much money we're making. Since this breakoff here.

So like, yeah, it's very noble of you. Do you have a t-shirt that says that? If my last name was Noble, I would just have a t-shirt.

Oh, we're gonna have so many t-shirts. Like, I'm gonna pay for them. Like, I'm making money to get people t-shirts.

Do you believe in nominative, uh, what is it, non-nomative determinism?

I don't even know what that is.

So nominative determinism—

I'm the dumbest smart guy, dude.

I'm the dumbest smart guy, you know.

I can beat you.

So nominative determinism— see, I can't even say it— nominative determinism is that your name determines what you will be like. So like, you know, uh, nobility, noble, right, right.

I paid, I paid $80 for that name.

Oh nice, dude.

I picked it.

My wife, my wife paid for like one of those, um, like lordships or whatever from England. And so like, you know, she like brings it up in conversation that she's like a lord or like a queen or something.

I am a lieutenant colonel— no, sorry, colonel in the Alabama State Militia.

Oh nice.

I've been sworn.

How much was that?

Zero. I, uh, so our coaching staff won National Coach of the Year for, uh, college hockey and the, uh, club hockey.

Yeah.

And they, uh, dubbed us Colonels.

Did you get like an honorary doctorate or anything?

No, I have a real doctorate.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, I want an honorary one eventually.

Seven figures, I get you one. All right, like, I'm like, seven figures, I'm your guy.

That's fair.

You're not gonna give the money to me, you're gonna give the money to a school?

UConn.

I could get you at UConn.

All right, you got connections everywhere.

Yeah.

I feel like everybody needs a plug for something. Where do I want an honorary degree?

Where do you want this honorary degree from? I'd already hire you to speak at graduation, so.

All right, all right, I like it. Let me think on that.

Yeah.

I think Stanford would be nice just to have an honorary. They're not gonna pay you. No, no, I know. I would pay them for the doctorate.

Yeah, sorry.

But like the honorary one.

Yeah, I don't think they'd take a million. That's an 8-figure.

8-figure, yeah.

What does a Stanford doctorate do in your life?

Oh, it's just to— so my mom stops yelling at me. Shit memes on the internet.

That's where it's 7 figures for sure.

For shit talking.

Dude, have you ever seen a Jewish mom, man? Like, they are very, very guilt provoking. You're Jewish? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I had no idea. I don't look it.

You're the meme lord.

I know. Dude, a funny Jew who has a dark sense of humor?

What?

That is a very novel concept.

Did you listen to those?

Who's also good at business?

What? Did you watch Ari Shaffer on the Two Bears?

All right.

So for whatever you want, did you listen to that? Yeah, it was good, right? Yeah, it was funny. Speaking of Jews with dark senses.

Yeah, many, many. It's, it's kind of ingrained in us.

Yeah. You're going to be famous. You're going to control Hollywood.

I mean, we already do. Yeah.

No, you.

Oh, me?

No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't— not, not the we.

Yeah, we already control the memes. So like, that was my plan with Memelord Tech is like control the memes of production. Basically. So like when you think about it, if you can influence what powerful people post memes, you can influence the narrative, right? And now we control, you know, dozens of accounts, right? And my software, I get to choose what templates go on there. What templates do I want to go on there? Do I want ones that are—

How do I get one of these?

There you go. You could sign up, Memelord Technologies.

How much do you—

It is $6.9 per month. Or $69 a year.

$6.9 what?

Dollars.

That's not even—

No, for the software.

That's free.

It's very cheap. Yeah, it's very cheap. Very cheap. If you want us to run our accounts, it's more expensive. But for the software—

How much does it cost to run an account?

It depends. So we do multiple plans. So we've got like one meme a day.

It depends on how much money you have.

Yeah, I'm like, you'll do this?

No, no, so it's—

I like this guy. He's gonna put the exact same shit I would put on, but I don't have to do anything.

Exactly. So I have a whole team. So we either do one meme a day for $4.20, $6.99. $499 a month. We do 3 memes a day for $699 a month. So $699. So that's 3 memes a day. Or we do like full-on custom social media management, and that's like $5,000 to like $15,000 a month generally. But like, we, we kind of try to mix the quantity, uh, you know, memes for the masses. And then you can only handle so many accounts actually personally. But when we do the just meme delivery, that's, that's easy.

I think we get Mac the, uh, we get Mac the like software. Yeah, I pay the subscription, we let her start. Then in 3 months or 4 months, we move up to the next one and we go through it for the whole year.

So that's, that's actually literally what's happening is like we have a bunch of people who sign up for 6.9, it's free. They're like, oh, I don't have time anymore, let me pay you to go make memes. I don't have time anymore, let me pay you to run the account. Yeah, you know, it's, it's the 6.9 is just a loss leader.

Yeah, we're, we're We have constructed a deal. I mean, when you're noble, this is better than getting you punched in the face.

Yeah, I briefly wanted to punch him a lot more. He said nominal determinism.

It's such a—

I got a PhD.

I'm like, fuck, it's such a douchey word. I know, it's a terrible word.

Did we ever get to the point of what that was?

Oh, so nominative determinism is that your name—

your name—

your name determines what you do. So like, uh, you know, Levin, maybe that's levity, right?

Uh, I don't know. I was thinking it was like bread or something.

Musk, maybe he smells bad. I don't know. Or rocket fuel.

Yeah, there's no way he smells good.

I feel like Elon can't smell good, you know. He's got to be sweaty, like, right?

He's got that nerd derpy, like, yeah, he can't smell good for sure.

Yeah, dude, he doesn't even have a guy. Once you get $200 billion, don't you get a guy or girl to spray you down?

Yeah, yeah, you should, you should.

Bezos probably smells good.

Have you ever thought about the fact that billionaires have the same phones as us?

Dude, I think about that all the time because I'm weird. I'm currently planning to become a billionaire.

Yeah.

And I was like, can I get a cooler phone? No.

It's kind of crazy, right? Like, everybody just has an iPhone, like, no matter how rich you are.

Yeah.

Like, that's weird to me.

What else do you think about?

What else do I think about?

Um, because that's a good one.

Yeah, that's a good one. I don't know, I think about, like, different arbitrage a lot. Like, so, like, everybody, like, Things about financial arbitrage, I find that very boring. But like cringe arbitrage and fear arbitrage, like doing things that other people will call cringe, like there's a huge arbitrage in that because like most people are afraid to do what I'm doing, what you're doing, starting a podcast, doing whatever. Most people are afraid of that. And so like if you could arbitrage on that and make the content that other people watch who are too afraid to do it, like maybe people who are listening to this, right? Maybe. Maybe, who knows? Hopefully the people who are listening to this choose to make the content and lean into the cringe, lean into the fear, 'Cause like, you know, everybody is afraid of it at first.

So I found out this weekend that like this guy with like 10 million followers, he has a group chat that like talks about my content.

Yeah.

And I'm like, how about you hit fucking share?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

How about you like it? How about you stop talking?

Dude, there's a lot of lurkers. He likes it, but it's like that's, yeah.

But like hit share once, once a month.

Yeah, yeah.

If you're spending that much time talking about me. Apparently my soccer rant was quite the—

Dude, I have the same thing. A lot of it is brand risk. I think. Yeah, 100%. I have friends who have like really big brands, but they're a lot more professional. So like, we're great friends, we hang out, like talk on the phone, but they're not going to like share my stuff. And I get it. I have no problem with that. I literally— I get it because I'm a business person. I get that. Like, you can't risk your brand just, just for a friend. Like, yeah, you got kids to pay, you got kids to feed. I get it. It's all—

No, but if you like it, you, you— Yeah. Like, at some level, you're not being authentic, right?

Yeah. But like, You know, business is business. I don't take it personal, you know?

Well, I do. I take everything personal. Everything's personal.

Everything's business.

Business is personal.

Oh, I like that. That's a good line. It's true. It's true.

There's actually a great book.

Yeah, I think with that name, Business Is the Best Art, Warhol.

Dude, I'm trying to convince the people that business is art. Yeah. And they're like, no.

Oh, business is art.

Yeah, dude, science.

Sending the perfect cold DM Art. Negotiation, art. That is like a screenplay. That is better than the best screenplay. A good negotiation, like signing a partnership with somebody, art. Software, building software, the shit that I do, like that's art.

Is it zero-sum on the partnership or is it—

I think mostly positive-sum. Yeah. I try for partnerships. I mean, I have employees and that is, you know, they are employees, but I also have partnerships.

Do you give or take?

Do I give more than I take? I try to give as much as I can, but I like taking. Yeah, I like making money.

I'm just starting to experience this taking thing. And I got to tell you, it was really nice.

Dude, taking is nice. There's a reason why people are bottoms.

So if you, if you, if you go into Adam Grant's work, yeah, you'll realize that to be a giver, you have to take some.

Yeah.

Because you'll run out of things.

You got to feed yourself.

And I think you'll run out of things.

I think most people understand that, you know, inherently. And like, I remember reading this Gary Vee book, you know, 10 years ago. It was like, give, give, give, take or whatever, something like that. That. And I always thought like, oh, it's like literally like every 3 posts you know, it's like you give for like years and then you take like all my content just like I still give all most of my content for free. Like most of my work, like I'm tweeting all day, I'm writing blogs, I've written my blog every week, every Sunday for 170 weeks completely free. And like it makes a lot of money on the side, but the blog, the entertainment, the podcast, all of that is free. It's not like every other post you try to take, but it's years of just giving and then it rewards you. And like I don't do it You know, I've been tweeting since I was 13, just like screwing around, like tweeting about Chipotle and getting stoned in high school. Like, I just love Twitter. I love tweeting. I like writing on the internet. Like, I would do it for free. Like, Twitter gives me payouts now. I make a grand a month from like just tweeting. I was doing it for free. Like, I don't care. Like, I just like sharing my thoughts. I have weird things to say. I like making people laugh.

You do have a face for Twitter.

Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I know, I know. It's a good— That was a good line. I like that line. You have a great face for a podcast producer.

Look at his hair. Look at his hair.

Yeah, yeah.

That shit's unreal.

It's very poof. It goes out.

You should see it when he's standing over here.

I was a little confused on the out. I was like, I like the top, but the out, the out.

They've been fucking my haircuts up recently.

Do you have a barber? Like, I always dreamed—

I did at the other studio. That's the problem.

Wait, you had a barber at your podcast studio?

No, no, not there. Like down the street.

When you're a podcast person, you don't get the— this is where he lives.

That's fair. I always, I feel like something missing from my life You ask me what I think about— I don't have a barber that I'm, like, friends with.

You need a barber?

Like, I need a barber that I could be friends with, you know? I feel like—

Like, funny friends with, or, like, serious friends with?

I just go to Supercuts or whatever.

No, you can't do that.

I know, I know.

You can't do that.

But I need a friend. I need a barber who's a friend, you know? Where do you live? Upper West.

Oh. So the guy— I lived on 72nd and Broad. I parked up there today, you know, cut out that.

So Upper West? Yeah.

And so do you have a—

do you have a guy?

I had a guy, but it's a terrible experience. It's a terrible experience up there.

Losing a barber is worse than like losing like a friend, you know, losing like a family member. So did you lose a dentist?

You lose a dentist, that's the worst. Oh, I have a thing though for anybody that, sir, like touches me. Yeah, I'm like allergic to fat.

Yeah. So you need like a skinny person.

So like I've walked in, ordered a thing, and then like seen who's cutting my hair and I walk out.

I mean, that's like having a bald barber, you know? You don't want a bald barber.

Yeah. Well, sometimes you want them to be a little— when you're a little bald, see here, you want them to be a little bald so they know what's going on.

Oh, so they understand it. Yeah.

Yeah. Or they're a girl. Girls can understand all men's hair because they don't have to deal with it.

Yeah.

So I've had women, I've had men, Girls are much smarter. I've had this conversation repeatedly. Like this one guy, he's like, where are you finding all these women? Like, because like they're way better than men. I'm like, well, at UConn, we just, we just have them. And I support women entrepreneurs.

And so they're smarter. They're 100% smarter.

They're less confident, but they're way smarter.

Yeah, I find that. Yeah.

I don't know that that holds true. Across the age spectrum. Yeah. But definitely from like 22 to 34, they're just— they can do things that men can't do. And they can also, especially when you think about the little things, right? Like they can do the little things so much better than a guy.

Much better customer service too, in general. Like, I— like my wife like frequently has to tell me like, don't curse that person out. It's like, why? What are you talking about? I want to curse that person out. Do you?

Waiters?

Ah, I mean, I would never— not waiters. No, because like, you get my food fucked up and that would— yeah, yeah, no, not waiters. Just like, just even people on the internet, you know?

It's like, playing this battle, we're talking about barbers. I think, yeah. So go to a good place.

Do you have money? Yeah, I have an accountant I could text with. That, that was a big move. Yeah, I don't have a lawyer I could text. Oh, you need I mean, what kind of— can you text with them though?

I used to be—

or is it just email? I have— you used to be a lawyer?

I have lawyers I test with.

Really?

And depending on what you need, I can tell you which one's good.

Okay. IP and IP—

I got your guy. Holy shit, man.

Like, text friendly? Because I'm sick of emailing.

We're gonna like— what's it, dude? Like, let's text them, dude, because I got your guy. His name is Ben.

Is he a good lawyer? Ben, he's a Jewish lawyer.

He is, he is.

He's good when you get to know him in person. Is he good?

I don't know, but his dad is really good.

All right, wait, business idea. Birthright, you know what Birthright is?

Yeah.

They send Jews to Israel. You have Jewish friends, you're not antisemitic yet.

Um, and so— No, I hang out with antisemitic Jews.

Birthright for rappers, you give a Jewish lawyer to a rapper the second they sign a record deal.

Wow.

Yeah, like Brian Steele. Yeah, that's my friend's dad. Really? Young Thug's lawyer.

Yeah, Young Thug's lawyer.

Yeah, he's just like a random Jewish dude. Like, I think it should be a God-given real lawyer before that. Yeah, yeah, because like, he's a really good lawyer. Yeah, he's, he's very crushed it on social. Yeah, he's a good lawyer. Yeah, he's pretty, he's pretty cool.

I was a terrible lawyer. Well, not terrible, I was good.

My dad's a lawyer. I, I would not be a good lawyer. Yeah, I'd be terrible.

It's, it's horrible. So most people I know that became lawyers quit because it's, it's so boring and awful. Yeah, but I have one that's really good on litigation. I have one that's really good on existential litigation, like if you lose this lawsuit, your company's dead.

Like if you don't make it to like heaven or something, or—

yeah, like if you were up, if you were going through it, yeah, that's the guy you call. He's connected. He's a fixer, more or less.

Fixers are good to have. Everybody needs a fixer.

Yeah, or you could be the fixer.

There's a lot of money in being a fixer times for like companies that need a fixer. Well, some companies that are in a lot of trouble, they need a PR guy. And like, how do you become cool on the internet again? You be silly and you lean into it and you have fun. And there's a lot of money in that.

What's your favorite corporate account?

My favorite corporate account?

Not necessarily you worked on it, but just like favorite one out there in the world.

I like Duolingo, man. Like, I just think, yeah, I think they're hilarious. Like, I've— I'm— yeah, I wrote a case study on them in my book. It's like I just think they're brilliant, and they led the kind of silly mascot meme marketing. Yeah, I think they're good.

Moon Pie was mine.

Moon Pie? What the hell is that?

Ah, dude, it's like this chocolate-covered wafer cream marshmallow thing.

Nice.

And they just like, they lean into it. Like whenever anyone leans into who they are, I appreciate it.

Yeah, 100%.

Why pretend you're anything but like, truly gluttonous.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

If you go to Mobile, Alabama, they have a Moon Pie hamburger at some place where it's 2 Moon Pies and the cheeseburgers in between.

Have you spent a lot of time in the South?

I lived in Alabama. I got my PhD from the University of Alabama.

Dude, what's the deal with Buc-ee's, bro? That shit was weird. That was weird.

That's awesome.

My wife and I drove down to Florida. Life, it was really weird. Everybody was in their pajamas and it smelled like pulled pork.

The best fucking pulled pork outside of North Carolina.

It was a weird place. It was packed at like 11 PM on a Tuesday.

Yeah, dude, anytime. Why, why did— why does the world need 150 gas pumps at a gas station? I don't know, but they're there.

Buc-ee's is crazy, dude.

How much merch do you think they're selling?

Probably a lot. That's cute gopher or whatever the hell it is.

I won a Halloween costume contest, uh, as Bucky, with the Buc-ee's— just the, just the Buc-ee's customer with the shirt. I don't even know what I was, but they still were like, you Yeah, yeah, it was really scary. I don't think it's scary, man. You just gotta enjoy it. Let it, let it come to you. Let it—

next time I drive to Florida, don't— I'll keep that in mind.

So it's originally from Texas, so I go to the one in Leeds, Alabama. Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, so, but, uh, yeah, no, Buc-ee's is a thing, man. Are you playing in the political meme world, like, for money yet, or no?

Yeah, yeah, here and there. Yeah, yeah, I've supplied memes politicians and political-oriented entrepreneurs. Yeah.

So, um, my boy, uh, Johnny McEntee, he does the, uh, Date Right stuff.

Okay. Oh, he's funny. Yeah, he's really— wait, the— he's the face of it? Yeah, he's funny. He's really good.

He, he's legit. So we got— we had Make America Hot Again, Raquel, in last time. So that's their— that's what they're— you going to the inauguration party? Yeah.

Did you get your, uh, did you get your receipt for the, the hats? I think shipped today.

Yeah, dude, I think it came to my house today.

Nice.

I got a thing, I got a thing. I'm like, oh, I'm going by my house to get it. Yeah, like it's pink. I got the pink one.

He's hilarious. He's really—

Johnny's a great guy. So people hate him because he's a troll, like clearly a troll. And so they're like, ah, and I'm like, dude, you don't know Johnny. Like, he's, he's a good person.

They're Teal-funded, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's an introvert.

Yeah.

Are you an introvert outside of here?

I would say so. I prefer to be alone and just like read or hang out with my dog.

I've come to the conclusion that being introverted is exceptionally important to the content creator business.

Yeah, yeah.

You don't seem introverted. Yeah, but you're talking to the camera, not everybody else.

Yeah, I mean, I like talking to people. Um, I like talking to myself more.

Yeah, no, introvert doesn't mean you don't—

I make myself laugh harder, you know?

It means you get energy from—

no, I like being alone. My wife's a total extrovert. She's like, she takes me to parties and there's a reason why you takes me outside.

There's a reason why you match.

Yeah, if I didn't have a dog, I probably would never leave the house, you know? Just take them out, just doing memes, dude. I mean, I don't know, man.

I—

there's a lot. I have a home gym, I got my laptop, I got Red Bull. You could get everything delivered these days, you know. Why ever leave? You know, only—

well, now that, now that you're hitting the, uh, 7-figure ARR, you're gonna be able to get all kinds of shit delivered.

Yeah, I was thinking, uh, did you see that tweet that went viral, like, uh, about the guy who was trying to get like a private firefighter or whatever?

It's hilarious.

So his house was on fire, not funny, in LA. Yeah. And like anybody, right, they're like, oh, if he's rich, right? All right, fine. He wanted to hire a private firefighter. Like, I would do the same thing, right?

It's reasonable.

Yeah, it's reasonable. I want a private DoorDash.

Let me, let me ask you a question. Since we talked about Johnny, you talked about firefighter, this is it. You're thinking of things that are actually logical. You're seeing logical things in the world that are truly ridiculous to the masses.

Yeah.

Is that like, something has to be really true about the or it doesn't work.

Yeah, memes reveal hidden truths, I would say. And so something I found when making memes in general is like the best memes come from problems. So if you're, you know, maybe a founder, you make memes about VCs 'cause they're the fucking problem. Or if you're a marketer, you make a meme maybe about Meta ads, right? It could be anything. If you're, you know, on the right, you make memes about DEI, right? If you're on the left, you make memes about the right, right? The best memes, it's really just like a coping strategy. And you cope with humor, which is, you know, that's really what it is, is you're just, you're spreading the joy of dealing with problems. You know, it's laughter makes every problem better, you know.

So as you look at your career now, you're gonna be making memes in 10 years?

Yeah, yeah, I think so. Memes, shows, movies, whatever, silly shit, man. I'm just— I like building software. I'm really enjoying that. I have two softwares right now, Memelord Technologies, which is my meme marketing software. And then I started something called Elon Email. And so what this does, it sends you a weekly email that says, what did you get done this week? Like Elon. And then you reply and then Elon roasts you. And because like all the other AIs were super nice, I wanted to make this one ruthless. And like, I hate the super nicey nice ChatGPT.

What does this cost me?

This one is $29 a month for daily or free for the weekly, totally free for weekly. And so people, you know, respond and then Elon gives them advice to be more ruthless. It's like, stop, you know, taking this stupid vacation or like use your vacation to listen to podcasts and strategize or, you know, upsell people. Yeah, dude, it's, it's really ruthless. So that was, that was the goal.

It's got to be better than listen to podcasts on vacation.

I mean, dude, in one week over 1,000 signups was pretty excited. And I think— What gets you off? What?

Not physically, physically in work. Like, you're loving what you do.

Yeah, I like it.

It's emanating from you.

I mean, I'm just living the dream, man. Like I, like I said, I was— I failed on the internet for like over 10 years. And so it's working now and I'm just enjoying and I just want to enjoy it, you know, and keep doing that. Like, I think for me, it's— I like being right on like massive bets. That people think are wrong. So like, you know, not to sound like teal contrarian bullshit, but like, I like when people think I'm wrong and then I'm right.

I bet on Trump in April at 22.

Yeah, exactly. It's, it's, it's the same, same kind of vibe. And like, so when I was in high school, I would just fuck around during class and make stickers, right? And I sold like $40 grand worth of Grateful Dead stickers when I was like, by the time I was 17. And like, people thought I was an idiot because I was playing on Photoshop. And like, I still use Photoshop every day for all my work. And like, all these funny videos that I would do, like like, you know, now like the creator economy's here and this is what I do for a living. Like memes, like, oh, memes are stupid. Now memes are like every brand, like Porsche, luxury brands are posting memes. It's not just the weird crypto startups. Everybody's posting memes. So like the shit that people think is stupid that I like see as smart, I'm like, ah, like that's what I enjoy doing.

Stupid smart's a real thing.

Yeah, yeah, it definitely is. Like I realized, so I thought I was retarded. No, I thought I was just really stupid.

Don't worry, I did too.

No, no, I thought I was just—

I saw your shit and I was like, yeah, for sure.

I thought I was really dumb 'cause like, I'm not good at science. Like, I can't remember shit like that. And I don't know if it's, I smoked a lot of weed in high school. I don't anymore, but like, maybe my memory's still screwed. But I was always just really bad at like biology, chemistry, physics. And so I thought I couldn't make it in like tech or anything. Or I thought like I was too stupid to do that this whole time. And it turns out like, ah, like that's just not, like there's a lot of other smarts, like creative smarts, business smarts. A lot of these guys who are really good at physics and chemistry, like they can't send cold DMs to get a business deal. They can't go on a podcast, they can't talk, they can't write, they can't talk to girls, they can't do whatever, right?

And so there's real money in helping dorks talk to girls.

Yeah, yeah. I don't partake in that dating advice business, but there is definitely money there. There's a lot of money there. It's not my thing, but hey.

Are you following the money or following the fun?

I'm following the fun, man. But I think for me it's like both, you know, like I wrote the book Memes Make Millions. Like, "Now the plan is let's go make some fucking millions with memes." So, for me, it's like I just wanna have fun with my friends on the internet, and, like, that's what I've wanted since I was a kid. And so—

How did Atu find you?

How did Atu—? Not for nothing.

Right now, you wanna know what's going through my head? I'm like, "Oh, I like this guy. He's cool.

We need to go hang out." Yeah.

Hold on.

Before he explains that, why don't you take a guess? 'Cause I could've guessed, probably. I asked him this question before you got here. Take a guess of how Atu found you.

Found him. Found him? Like you were, you were sending Nigerian scam emails? Yeah, meme coins.

I actually, I, I, no, no meme. I like scamming the Nigerians. I think that's one of my favorites.

Yeah, yeah, I'm like living for that.

Yeah, I think I like, I think there's something there, 100%.

We're gonna, we're gonna negotiate a partnership after this because that's—

no, I think he just found me from my, either my software or some meme event or something that I just said.

Yeah, yeah, he's, he's all up on the meme coins right now.

I know. Yeah, I don't gamble.

Yeah, I don't— you don't gamble at all?

I'm Jewish, dude. I like making money.

I like plenty of Jewish people that gamble at the casino.

No, I don't. I don't gamble. No, keep it.

Do you keep it in a place where you can go and look?

Let me get that interest, bro. Nothing, nothing better than interest, man.

Do you— where do you keep your money?

Uh, Wealthfront. All right. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what that is, but Wealthfront's like automated investing. So I keep some in like, you know, a cash— high APY cash account, and then other— like, I invest in, you know, SPY. Once you get it, you'll do it. Like, I have a very risky job. Like, a software company, I'm probably going to get canceled at some point.

So like, no, no, no, you can't be.

Yeah, no, but what I'm saying is like, I got to save for a rainy day, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm sure I don't need the Ferrari. I don't need all that shit. Like, let me just save. Like, you know, I got a wife, I got a dog, I got a, I got a nice place I got to take care of.

So like, can you let us know when you hit the 7 figures so we can come back and revisit that?

Yeah, it's going to be too fast. He's going to hit the ARR. I think what we have to do in 7 figures is too fucking low, bro. It's like when you hit 8 That's like, or when you're launching a new product. Yeah, I'd love to have you come in when you're, when you're like formulating some of the thoughts. Yeah, we can record, hold, and release when the product comes out. I like it because that's where I'm really interested in, right? Like, okay, I'm really interested in the content creators and the people that are creating things and their businesses that they're building. So the perfect show for me would be, all right, you're thinking about it, come in, let's talk. And I mean, this is fringe, but it's not a whiteboard, but like, let's talk about it. 'Cause that's where I start to add value.

Yeah, I appreciate that, but I like keeping things secret until I launch it, so. All right, cool.

All by yourself, are you doing it? Or are you? Yeah, we'll sign all the NDA.

I just drink the Red Bull and build the shit.

We'll let you hold the video.

Yeah, I'll do it after I launch.

We'll kick that guy out of the room too.

But yeah, if there's any advice—

No, 'cause it's actually the most interesting on the front of the launch. Yeah, yeah. It's not, once you launch, you've already— Formulated. You've already perverted your thinking process.

So I can't imagine you enjoyed being a professor.

No, I love it. It's one of the greatest things.

But what about like the bureaucracy?

No, no, I'm a bureaucracy breaker.

Yeah, yeah, I can't, that's what I meant.

Yeah, no, I'm fantastic at that. I have a skill for seeing it and formulating. So one of the talks I just got like an agent guy, right? Yeah. And he's like, you got to come up with 3 talks that you want to do. And so I'm like, all right. And one of them is like stacking the chessboard. Yeah. And so with bureaucracy, what I am exceptional at is putting all the pieces into place so that I've already won the chess game. So bureaucracy doesn't matter. It's actually very good because it sets all the rules. Bureaucracy doesn't care about substance. It only cares about did you follow rule A, rule B, rule B, rule C. So it's just an if-then.

Yeah, checkbox, checkbox. That's the lawyer in you, I guess. Yeah, the following, the following instructions.

That's hard. It's really hard. No, it allows you to do anything. All you have to do— you can do anything if you just follow that rule, which is not as bad as you think. But what if the rules are stupid? They're always stupid. That's not the problem. It's like that rule doesn't stop you from doing something. So if you just do that thing You do it. And then you gotta be a bully when they try to like stop you. So like, I'm like, you kind of bully people. It gets you what you need. You gotta like pretend to be scarier than you are. Yeah. You gotta like, you know, network. You have to be able to execute within a network, know where the pressure points are in a bureaucracy. I just dropped out.

I just didn't like it.

Yeah, well, I mean, it's, it's not for everybody, but that's my skill. I can't make a meme. I don't even know. I don't even know what I'm doing. Yes, like, I'm still—

bureaucracy freaks me out, man. Yeah, dude, that's— dude, that's the Jew in me, man. Nazis was bureaucracy 101, bro. Fantastic. They're great at following instructions. That's why I don't go to Germany. Yeah, yeah, for me it's— yeah, yeah, I don't go. Yeah, do you go?

No. Why do you think people like are willing to forgive the Germans? I mean, that was—

I mean, it was like great-great-great-grandparents, you know? And also I feel like, dude, they're still thinking about it. The girls and the cars, like, they— I think they've given back.

I'm not doubting you, but they're still thinking.

I think they've given back what they've taken, you know? Like, have you ever been in a Mercedes? Have you ever driven a Mercedes? I'm sure you have.

I'm an aficionado of pre-1983 Mercedes. Those are the best cars ever made. Yeah, I have an Audi, but no. No, no, I, I'm still holding a grudge against the Germans. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. I'm not giving it up, and I'm not even Jewish.

I like the Mercedes though.

You know, when outside the subway station, the guys that are trying to like, oh yeah, stuff on you, like they're always like Jewish. Yeah, I get it. You get it? Why don't you get it? Because I don't know. And I'm like, Jewy, not Jewish.

Jew adjacent. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I, um, that's a good way to put it. Jew and honorary Jew.

Yeah, there's— I go to Seders. Like, really?

I don't even go. Why do you go? They're so boring, dude. Oh, that's disgusting. That's fantastic. The matzo ball soup's great. Yeah, yeah, that's— it's really good.

No, I, I—

that's actually something. It's religion bureaucracy. Total bureaucracy, dude. That's hard. That's, that's bureaucracy 101.

Yeah, you're gonna have to make a meme for God. That's— you better hope God is getting a meme maker.

I'll make memes for Peter Thiel instead. You know, that's as close as you could get. German. Yeah, but like, as close as you could get to God, you know?

Yeah. It's like, how did America end up with a South African overlord who is controlled by a German homosexual that doesn't like it that people know he's a homosexual? And destroys—

I think that's a bit, actually. Do you? Oh yeah, he's just gay for the bit because it's hilarious. The fact that Peter Thiel is gay, like, he's the straightest motherfucker. Like, I was, you know, a few feet away from him. He's a straight-looking motherfucker. I think he's— it's just for the bit. It's an intimidation tactic. Just— yeah, yeah, I might fuck you, you know. Dude, it's just a bit, man. It's just a bit.

That one's gonna get me in trouble.

Oh, it's gonna get me in trouble too. Not with—

with Peter Thiel, not with anyone. Yeah, it's all good. It's all— there's gonna be a day walk into a deal room and then it's like, yeah, you get the fuck out of here. No, he, he, he's exceptional. Yeah, he's truly exceptional genius. And I think, you know, people, people love to take the truly exceptional and vilify them. And I think the meme was developed as a tool to fight that. Like, yeah, yeah, 100%.

It's, it's laughing at the stupidity of it. And like, in this country right now, there's, um, a lot of attacking merit. Um, you know, it's, it's really got a lot of envy, jealousy, communism, whatever you want to call it, is attacking merit. And, um, it's really sad.

They did a really good job of couching the communist ethos in the word equity.

Yeah, yeah, they made it sound not communist. Yes, but it's very— but it's very— if you want everybody to be equal, that's as communist as you get, because then everybody isn't equal.

Yeah, everybody sucks.

And then you start taking more money from people who earn it, and then you start giving it to others, and then other people don't have jobs, and then you have bad products because there's no capitalism. Shitty memes. Yeah, just shitty everything, man.

If you're in a communist society, the memes suck.

Yeah, well, actually, yeah, because you literally are controlling the propaganda and you're controlling, you know, the entire media. So yeah, it's, it's no wonder. Yeah, the Nazis and USSR, terrible memes. Terrible memes. Great posters though. Yeah, they invested. Great merch.

Great merch. All right, we ask a student every week to ask a question. They go through the social media of guess, and then they ask a question. So we asked, uh, this young lady. Big fan here, uh, just wondering, can you fill in the blank?

What the— uh, Peter Thiel's dildo collection.

There we go, that's the answer.

Who, who is that? That's a student from UConn.

They ask a question every, every time. Time. Nice. And, uh, um, she's also known as Momo Blue.

That's cool. Is that like a rap name or like—

No, we don't really know. We just found her recently and she, she, she comes up with good questions. What the— she goes through— she went through your social media and that's the question she came back with. She wanted to know, all right, what the— she spent probably—

I feel like I probably disappointed her on that one.

Yeah, I think so.

I feel like she wasn't expecting me say like a billionaire's dildo collection.

But yeah, I think she's okay with it. But like, um, you know, that, that's her, her bag. If you were her and you're a student in the world and you're thinking the world doesn't really fit me— yeah, because that's who I collect as students.

Yeah, I can tell, those kids. Yeah, yeah, the Misfits. Yeah, I get it.

I call it the island of exceptional Misfit toys because like I don't like the—

yeah, yeah, dude, you don't want the, the kids who are getting all fucking A's.

I don't need people taken. No, no, you're lazy.

They're gonna work in big law or— Yeah, yeah. IB or whatever and be miserable.

Let them do that. But I get these kids and like, they look at, they'll look at your career. Yeah. What, where do you start to say like, hey, you can't do this, you can do this, go practice for 10 years. How do you talk to kids that—

Just start publishing, start putting stuff out on the internet if you wanna be a creator vibes, like, don't worry about the money for 3 to 5 years and just do whatever weird thing that you love, start making content about it. And it could be whatever niche, like there is, the internet is so big that there's money in every niche. Like I, whether it's freight and logistics, seriously, I know people who run meme communities around freight and logistics doing millions, right? Or whether it's, you know, Australian kangaroos, like there's money in whatever weird interests you are. You just have to be passionate about something. And for me, that was, it's marketing, tech, business, you know, Silicon Valley, whatever. And like, that's what I make content about and I'm happiest. And then the other thing that I would say is make internet friends. So, you know, our parents raise us, don't make friends on the internet, don't talk to strangers. They were fucking wrong, right? Like, it's changed my life. I had a Twitter table at my wedding, right? Like, a lot of my best friends, and these aren't just like business people, like these are like real friends and brothers. And so you will find people who support you more on the internet, who are strangers, more than your own family. Like, my, you know, total strangers on the internet will support you stronger than people you are related to who don't get it. And, you know, it used to be the day where you grow up and your friends in high school are all your best friends 'cause you live near each other. But that's not how the world works anymore. You could find people with the same interests who are 1,000 miles away who will buy your products, who will support you, who will listen to your podcast, read your newsletter, give you advice. But all you have to do is like send a DM and talk to them. And so really, you know, that would be the number one thing is like reach out to people that you think are cool. Send a cold email, send a DM, start sharing your thoughts on the internet in whatever form, whether it's TikTok, Twitter, LinkedIn, it could be anywhere, but you can't do it alone. And so building that network of just like crazy dreamer friends, you know, every artist has one, every, you know, whatever, every entrepreneur has one, you know, you know, um, but you're not, you know, like, you're just not gonna—

it's not even stupid. No, that, that's exactly right. I mean, you can't do this by yourself. You can't do anything by yourself. No, no, not worth doing.

Yeah, you got to find friends who really get it. And like, you know, it's hard, but get rid— just move away from the friends that don't. Like, you know, just spend time with the people who get it, who get your dreams, who, you know— I was, I was with a friend earlier, right? I'm like, dude, I want to start a reality show. He's like, all That's it. Just like, just those kind of friends who are just, fuck it, we ball. Like high agency, just, we just do shit. Like, all right, let's just do shit.

Like, so you can call me anytime with crazy shit because like you can ask him, I'll do just about anything. 'Cause like, it's, you don't know what is in the world till you start doing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm amazed.

Amazed at how many people sit back and judge and, and wonder, why not me?

It's a lot easier to do that. It's a lot easier to complain. It's a lot easier to do that. It's—

yeah, we have like a whole 350 or 20 or 30 subscribers on YouTube. Like, so I'll have somebody that I've known a long time and they'll be like, why are you doing this? Yeah, it's like, well, all right, I'm talking to this person. I just had that call with another person. Like, the number of deals that we're producing and opportunities that we're producing with the show. Yeah, it's just fun too.

Like, who knows, I could be running out this podcast studio. Like, who knows, we could be working on something. That's how this works. You know, there's endless— You figured me out. Yeah, you figured it out. No, I mean, I get it. Like, I did the same thing. Like, starting a podcast, best way to meet people who might buy your products or whatever. Like, it's a hack, yeah.

If you have any interest in talking with people, conversing, you should start. And you're in the bit in starting a business, you should be having a podcast. And which is crazy before you start the business.

Yeah. What's so sick about podcasts too is instead of just saying, hey, can I pick your brain? Which like nobody wants, like, dude, nobody wants to get their brain picked with nothing in return. When you start a podcast, even if you only get like 10 views, it doesn't matter. You're giving somebody something. You're giving them content they could post. Post. That's— I mean, that's why I came, was so I could post this video afterwards and post, post clips, right? So when you have a podcast, you're giving somebody something and it doesn't even have to be distribution. I even went to my podcast like I was just starting. I was on like episode 2 or 3. I was getting big VCs or big entrepreneurs because they knew I could give them video to go post. Like, that's, that's it. Like, that is a valuable— like, people pay hundreds, thousands of dollars for that. So if they could just nail that in an hour, like, you could talk to anybody. So you made the, you made the case for why this podcast, dude. It's, it's not, yeah, podcasts are not for money. No, no, it's, it's for connections.

Yeah. The, I'm, I'm still amazed. I'm really struggling to, and I, and what I took from this is I'm about to start emailing people and DMing them myself because I'm really struggling to get guest spots on podcasts. Yeah. And like my range, that's strength. Like, I could talk about almost anything at a very high level. There's a couple places where— and it's like, oh, well, you don't have a million people on you on TikTok. But also, like, I do have a large following.

Yeah, I would recommend not doing it, actually, because just do shit and people ask you. Yeah, yeah. Like, people, people will ask you. Like, just, you know, for a while I was trying to get in all these, like, big blogs, or like I was trying to get in HubSpot. And, you know, eventually I was like, fuck them, man. Like, same with— it's the thing with VC, you know, like, all right, like, you try to get raised VC and like most of the time I'll be like, fuck off. But then if you have a bootstrap startup that's fucking killing it, your DMs are getting flooded by VCs. It's the same thing. And like, yeah, that would be my advice generally. I mean, I don't know if it's a good one. It's the same thing with like books and, and blogs and stuff like that. Like, you try— I, I tried to get a book deal or whatever, and now, like, now that my book's doing well and I have a bigger following, like, you know, I, I could get introductions to agents. And so like, you want You want, I might just self-publish. Like I was thinking about, you know, it's the best way. Yeah. I was thinking, once you have the distribution method.

Yeah, dude.

Publishing with like legacy media, like all they do is put it in bookstores and like, that's about it. Like you're responsible for the rest of the marketing. And if you get a fat check, like that's cool, but you're actually, that's just an advance on book sales. 'Cause you have to pay all that back with book sales. It's a budget.

It's a budget for your, it's a budget for your marketing, right? Yeah, exactly.

That's all it is. So I probably, my next book I'm just gonna self-publish. Maybe like if I want to go big, big mainstream with a book later on, I'll like—

Yeah, you can always do that.

Yeah, autobiography or some shit, but I don't know. Pathless, Path, Paul. Dude, I love Paul. Yeah, Paul and I recorded in Austin. He's a man. All right.

Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say. You know Paul? Yeah, Paul. So Paul went to UConn. Paul's one of our alum, man.

Oh shit, I didn't know that.

Yeah, I forgot about that. Paul's like our guy.

Dude, UConn.

I'm probably the number one purchaser of Pathless. Path.

Oh, how many have you bought? Over, over 150. Nice, nice. Paul's great, man. He's— I give him to students. When I was thinking about quitting— when I was thinking about quitting my job, he's the person I called and gave me advice. Quit my job the next day. See, small world. I love Paul. I love Paul.

He, uh, so, so there's some stuff that I'm like, I don't know about that, but like, I can tell you 100%, 100% sure, when I quit my job in the last couple weeks Paul was in my head. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, his— right. I actually don't follow him that much on Twitter.

I don't, uh, I read his blog. Yeah, yeah. His blog's good. His blog's great. Yeah, because he's a good writer. Yeah. And I disagree with Paul about some things. Like, I'm a lot more money hungry, you know. And Paul's—

dude, anybody's more money hungry than Paul.

Yeah, Paul's chilling. Paul, Paul would prefer to move to Thailand and chill, which is cool. Yeah, like, you do you, man. Like, you could learn something from everyone, but Yeah, yeah, that would— Paul's great. Yeah, good book. Read, read that book.

Yeah, and he self-published it and he sold this. And he— what I, what I really admire is his transparency. This is how many books I sell, this is what I did. Then he breaks down his income as well. Yeah, he waited till he crossed like 200 grand. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so I guess one other piece of advice, I guess, if there's students listening, is like treating social media like you would an education where you have to invest time in it. You know, like investing a few hours every day, like you're not gonna see a payoff the same way that you go to school, you spend 50, 60, 70, I don't know how much UConn is, 70 grand a year. Treat those hours every day like you're taking a class and like making shit. And so that would be one thing as well as like treating it like an education and like eventually the payoff's there. You don't get a job from college like after day one. One. You shouldn't be getting paid from social media after day one. It's gonna take a few years, you know? Yeah, same thing.

Uh, you got— you sold me. We're about out of time here, dude. This was—

this was really fun. Nah, dude, you're—

you're welcome back. You are a meme.

I am a meme. Yeah, exactly. And like, you know, yesterday I posted about Elon email in front of an American flag saying we got to get America to do more shit, and my wife comments like, you are such a tech bro. I'm like, damn right I am. Like, that is who I I am a technology brother. I'm cool with it. Is that what you did before? What? I was a data engineer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And built up social media on the side. Just learned to code so I could make some money. But, you know, yeah, like I am a tech bro through and through and I like building software. I think software makes the world better. I think hardware does. And I believe in American defense. So like I am a technology brother through and through, but I also like to shitpost.

So. All right. Fantastic.

Thank you. Cool. Thank you.