The Jason Levin Show Episode 40: Dakota Robertson — Ghostwriting, Twitter Growth, and $150k months

Yo, yo, what's up?

What's happening, man?

Not much, just chilling in Panama. How you doing?

Good, man, good. Chilling, uh, virtual Panama, I guess, you know.

Yeah, I like it. It's got that, uh, retro wave kind of shit.

Exactly. Gotta keep it on brand, man. Um, if you're cool, we could just hop into things. I, I want to start with like kind of businessy questions and then jump into life questions.

Hell yeah, brother, fire away.

All right, dope. Um, all right, advice for making your first dollar online.

I would pick a skill first off, and when you're picking a skill, you want to find something that you have interest in because that's what's going to keep you interested in learning more and actually stay consistent. And then you want to find alignment with market demand. So you want to think, okay, what are things I'm interested in that I can monetize? So writing, sales might be one, marketing, copywriting, stuff like that, because I think there's a lot of people trying to monetize shit where there might not be demand for, and that's why they struggle to make money. So yeah, once you have that, then find the experts in the field on YouTube or wherever, and and learn from them. There's a ton of free content out there for everything and then start to apply the stuff and then consistently you'll, over time you'll see results.

Facts. I feel like the first dollar is the hardest.

Yeah.

A lot of the time for people it's really just like the paradigm shift in the brain.

Yeah, because it's such a big switch going from zero to one because it's, it's a paradigm shift, you know, you've been there's people saying making $10K a month is a scam. Meanwhile, there's people making $100K, $1 million a month. And it's not until you actually make that first dollar you realize, oh, I can make $100, make $1,000. And then your, your mind is just expanded upon what's possible and you realize, oh, this shit's actually true. But takes a little bit to get there.

Oh, 100%. I, Took me a while. You know, I made my first dollar probably when I was like 14 or 15 selling stickers. Did really well. Made like $40K by the time I was 17 and then just kind of plateaued, man, at like $1,500 a month. You know, I hit $2K, $3K from different projects. You know, now it's the $20K to $30K range, but, you know, I want to get to that $100K a month range. And you're right, man, like getting that paradigm shift where it's like, oh, I can do that. Why can't I? You know?

Yeah, man. Yeah. It's, it becomes reasonable. Oh, if I can make $10K a month, I can make $50K. And you also start associating yourself around a different caliber of people. I think when you, when you delve deeper and then you realize, oh, okay, you kind of brainwash yourself with the people you surround yourself with. At the start, it's so hard because you're, you're kind of the black sheep, you know, you're alone and your family, your friends aren't conditioned to think this stuff is possible. So it kind of, you have to be willing to walk the journey alone for a little bit until you find your footing.

Facts. I always say musicians are great, you know, sometimes I just have to shut out the family, shut out the parents and just listen to music. Cause rappers especially, like they understand the dream. They understood the internet hustle. And that kept me company when, you know, I didn't have many people in my life who were trying to make it on the internet, you know?

Yeah, bro. Yeah. Hit the gym, blast some rap. I feel you.

Exactly. Exactly. So here's some advice or question I got for you. I've been around like the 10K, 15K follower range for the last 6 months, kind of been stuck. Unfortunately, and wondering what would your advice now be to like get to $100K?

Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So personal stories, 100%. So anything where you can talk about a transformation you went through and show vulnerability, that's what really gets people interested in you because a lot of people, they will just spew facts and stuff on the timeline, that's great, but you wanna think about creating a connection with your audience. And that only comes from sharing your worldview, your story, your experiences. And that's something a lot of people lack because I don't know, maybe they're scared of what people say or whatever, but it's that vulnerability that really connects when you show the chinks in your armor and when you build that connection with people, it doesn't matter what you say, but they will engage with you. So like, that's a really, really big one that a lot of people ignore. So for example, I could talk about how to make $10K a month as a ghostwriter, or I could say how I went from broke electrician to making $10K a month as a ghostwriter and just changing that frame. Subtle change makes it way more impactful for the person because like, oh, this is about him. I'm very curious about this person and also has this implied benefit. And you're also showing that you've done this. So people want to follow people that are interesting. So you want to think, how can I frame this in a way that gives a piece of who I am, shows who I am? And you're, you're gonna find you'll get way more profile clicks. And way more followers that way when you do that. More tactical stuff would be do DM giveaways. So what's something valuable that you can create and turn it into a DM giveaway? So what you can do is create a document like a checklist. You can create a step-by-step guide. One thing I do is I do a Twitter Space and then I record it, and then I record the Twitter Space on a subject about like how to do XYZ, and I turn it into a DM giveaway and I just link to the audio on a Google Drive. That's effective. But yeah, it definitely takes consistency and it's been harder to grow on Twitter lately. But I'm just thinking, how can I create— you're not even like 100K followers, but how can I create the 1,000 true fans, you know? And that's all you need. I mean, think about it. If you have 1,000 true fans, and you have a cohort or coaching program or service that's $1,000, that's $1 million. So I think that's the way you want to think about it.

Facts. So I originally found out about you from, uh, somebody in your cohort, Jack Moses. Um, we became friendly. Uh, he had me on his podcast and, uh, he actually did some, uh, ghostwriting for one of my clients, hooked him up, or He was helping me out on a project. So that's like a big part of your business now, right? The ghostwriting cohorts.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I find fulfilling, you know, because my biggest value is freedom. So being able to wake up where I want, do what I want and just live how I want. And I know how impactful ghostwriting was for me and growing a personal brand was. And how that's changed my life. So doing that for other people is really fulfilling. Also just the work. I like teaching. I was going to be a high school teacher. I went to college for 2 years and that's what I was going to do 'cause I just enjoy teaching. But now I get to do it, you know, online without a degree. And yeah, it's been really rewarding.

Make a lot more money too.

Oh, hell yeah. When you got a big audience, dude, you, it's crazy. Like you just need what, 50 people at whatever ticket price and you make hundreds of thousands a month. So it's nuts.

Facts, facts. So what is the current kind of business breakdown? So I know you wrote about in a recent post that you were thinking about scaling back your content agency and then you had a conversation with an author who told you to keep going on the content agency because of all the connections you'll make. Are you still doing some of the ghostwriting and content agency stuff on top of your cohorts?

Oh yeah, yeah, 100%. Um, so yeah, I see it. I kept all my clients, but anyone new I take on, it's only going to be for like networking opportunities, not even for the monetary gain. Um, so yeah, and then I got Joey, my right-hand guy. He's managing everything with my agency. So I maybe come in, do direction, like I'm more of a consultant for a business now. And I also help with the hook writing. But yeah, Joey handles most of the stuff. He's a gem. But yeah, I see it more as a networking opportunity now. Got you.

So Joey would be like an operator?

Yeah, exactly. Okay.

Yeah, I was just talking to Greg Eisenberg about this. He's in a similar stance, has an operator doing the business-y kind of things while he does more of the content and hops in on projects that he thinks are cool. So nice. I really— how did you find Joey and how did you find somebody that you could trust like that?

Yeah. So Joey was one of the first people I messaged on Twitter when I started 3 years ago, you see, 2.5, 3 years ago. And it was weird how I met him. So I was in the, the money Twitter space and some older guy invited us to a group call or some mastermind and Joey was in there. So after the call, I checked his profile and stuff because me and him and one other guy, David, we were the only young dudes in the group. It was, I don't know, it was a weird kind of mastermind, but I checked out Joey after and saw he was all into psychology and I sent him a DM like, hey, I love psychology. He had like 20K followers at the time and I was like, oh, this guy's I was like, celebrity and all that stuff. And, but he replied to me and he was kind and all that. And I guess, I guess that was like the, the small blooming of our friendship. And then when I became closer with Dan Coe, since Dan Coe was closer with Joey, kind of like intersected a bit. And yeah, we started talking more and became really good friends and he started working for my ghostwriting agency as a writer and he was just kicking ass right out the gate. And at the time I was looking for a lot more help because it's hard to find good writers. And so right away, just promoted him to kind of head writer and managing people and all that stuff. And he's kicking ass. I'm like, dude, hell yeah. Like, I want to scale this ghostwriting cohort. And I mean, I'm still in the transition phase with the agency. So do you want to just handle like all this stuff and I'll just transition to the cohort? And he's like, yeah. So Yeah, pretty much. Joey's running pretty much everything. Like, the one thing I think I, I like about Joey is his character. He's got really good character, and he, he just picks up stuff fast because he's smart, a really smart guy, uh, and he's funny. He's got a sick twisted sense of humor like me, so we get along quite well, and, uh Yeah, no, Joey's been a lifesaver. I wouldn't be running the agency right now if it wasn't for him.

Wow. So how many employees do you have total?

Dude, we used to have 8 writers and a VA and Joey, but when ChatGPT came out, it, it would just made things so much easier. So we got rid of all our writers because we'd have to edit writers writing and it was just like, holy shit, it's taking so much time and money. But we created a framework with ChatGPT, just writes it way better. We're like, well, why are we doing this if we can just get ChatGPT to do all this stuff? So we only got Joey, myself, a VA. We recently took on one writer, Mike Bolton, to help us. He's from the cohort because he's just kicking ass. He's a really good writer. So He's been helping us, but yeah, it's pretty lean team. Like, I don't have a desire to scale an agency up really high. I like the lean team solopreneur kind of model, even if it does mean making less money. I just enjoy my freedom a lot more, just doing shit I like, making content.

Facts, man. I've been thinking about exactly the same thing. You know, I had a conversation with the guy who runs a TikTok agency, you know, got 50, 60 clients a month, which is, you know, a lot of people. Like, I got I'm making good money. I'm happy. I can take the dog on a walk when I want to take a walk, like wake up when I want to wake up. Like, yeah, I could be making $200K a month or something from an agency, but do I want that much headaches? You know, do I want those kind of headaches and do I want to be managing people? Like, I love making content. I don't like managing people. So it's this kind of weird place. But it takes like a certain level of discipline not to scale past, you know what your capability and what your desire is. It takes like holding back and it feels good to be like following that path for sure.

100%, dude. It's, it's like you're working another job at that point when you take on so much. And it's just not what I got into business for. But yeah, I feel you, man. It's, it definitely takes discipline to say no to stuff. That was one thing I struggle with, saying no to opportunities. You're like, oh no, but I could. No. Just do the thing that's working.

100%. So speaking of discipline, um, I know you talk about exercise a lot, um, and, and post videos and stuff like that. Um, how has exercise kind of helped you as a writer and as a creative?

Yeah, so I used to be chubby as a kid. I got made fun of for it. That's what got me in the gym. I would go to YMCA classes with my mom's boyfriend and like, or before school and we just work out and I lost the weight over extended period of time for like a few months. Started to really see it fall off and it was the discipline it taught me cuz I, I realized, oh, if I do something consistently, it may be hard, I do it consistently over a long enough period of time, I will see results. Even if it is small results, it's still super rewarding because yes, I earned it. Like, that's the feeling you get. And that translated to a lot of different areas of my life. I think the overarching thing is facing adversity, but being okay with it and and just overcoming it. I think it teaches you whatever, whatever it is, it might be sports or some other endeavor, but learning that lesson, however you learn it, I think it, once you do learn it, it's like, okay, this can be applied to business, this could be applied to anything. And just developing that grit, I think that's lost on a lot of people nowadays because maybe the parents give them the iPads and they just, instead of sports or, or do what I play, play video games all day and all that shit. So a lot of people, they, they don't face any adversity. I think that's why a lot of people have gotten soft and why it's, well, I think a lot easier to be successful nowadays 'cause the people with grit and, and discipline can just fucking roll, steamroll people over. But yeah, it just taught me the power of consistency and and facing adversity and, and when you really want something, if you have like the do or die mentality, then you're gonna, you're gonna get it. Like I was in so much pain from being made fun of for being fat and chubby. I was like, well, I know what the alternative is. I'm not fucking doing this anymore. So I was, it was just a do or die mentality and it was the same thing that happened with Twitter where I just said, fuck it, I'm not gonna work a job again. So I quit my job and I dropped outta college. I'm like, I don't know how, but I'm gonna make this work. Started with zero followers, reset my account and just made it work. So it's, I think it's when you just choose like you're gonna do something and just like fucking set on it, you just go for it. I think, yeah, I think get shit done. But facts, yeah, it was overcoming adversity.

I feel that so much. I did not. Have that experience until I was older, until actually 2021. I did a coding bootcamp because I needed to pay rent and my internet business stuff wasn't working and I just needed to pay rent, you know? And finally, like, I saw, like, I'm, you know, I'd never coded really in my life at all. Like, I'd always been, like, good at, you know, graphic design and stuff, but that's totally different from, like, writing. You know, SQL or Python or whatever. And over the span of like 3 months, 4 months bootcamp, I saw myself get better. And that was the first time it clicked where it was like, oh my God, like all I needed was patience and to trust the process and it could work. You mean like all these things that I gave up in the past, I could have made successful if I just stuck with them. And from there, like that was when I started my blog, you know, now that's up to 6,600 readers, like just from trusting the process and being more patient with myself in the world. There's like You know, that line that you overestimate what you could get done in a day and underestimate what can happen in a year. And I, I've totally been seeing that. This also made me think about, I just listened to a podcast, Barry Weiss's podcast about why men seek danger. And I think it's so interesting, you know, like growing up, I seek danger from like the time I was 13, 14, stealing shit, smoking weed, you know, doing acid, doing all sorts of stuff. 'Cause I was so bored with regular life. You know, we, we live in like a cushy kind of thing and it's like, you know, the way we seek danger now is, is doing fun stuff on the internet. Um, you know, like I, I personally got sober a few years ago, so, so that was really helpful, but doing fun stuff on the internet, going to the gym, like, um, playing sports, stuff like that and, and, and getting healthy that way.

Yeah, man, I think, I think that's true. I think danger or challenge people seek. I mean, you think, think about today's political climate. We have it so good that we're making up problems. Like, it's, it's fucking nuts, man. Like, it's crazy. Like, are we really concerned about, like, what pronouns we're gonna fucking use? Like, here, I don't know, man. It's, uh, it's wild times. But yeah, I, I do think I think that's something in all of us, like what challenges, what challenges we seek. Like we always need challenge, I think whether it's in video games or, or business or something, that's what makes life fun. It's challenges. Like we have all, it's like sports, like that's all it is, are you facing challenge? It's no fun to watch, you know, like someone completely dominate another team. It's nice when there's like the, tug of war, you know, back and forth. Um, yeah.

Facts. It's fun to be the man in the arena, you know?

Yeah.

I never understood my little brother, like, you know, watch Twitch and watch other people playing video games. I, I never got that. It's like, why would I wanna watch other people? And it's the same with Twitter. Like, why would I wanna watch other people succeed? Like, I wanna do this shit. Like when I see people, you know, like in TV shows since I was a little kid, it's like, I wanna do that shit. Why can't I, you know? It's, it's always more fun. Yeah. And then another, another life question in Panama, it sounds like, are you near the beach or anything like that?

Yeah, I'm near the water. There isn't many beaches in Panama like I would have thought. If you drive, I think an hour out from where I am, there's a lot more beaches and all that. But yeah, there's not many. Beaches to go on. It's just like waterfront, that's all.

Interesting. And what, what kind of things do you do to help relax and manage screen time?

Heh heh. Go to the gym. To be honest, I'm on my, my laptop and phone quite a lot. That's something I've been working on with my performance coach, Leon Castillo. Shout out to him. But one thing I do is I use app blockers. Those have been really effective. So Opal.so for iPhone and then Cold Turkey for my Mac. And those help a shit ton cuz you know, if you check social media often, it just becomes a default habit. You don't even think about it, you're just checking it like a zombie. But if you have that extra layer of resistance and you go to check it, oh, can't. And then it's like, oh well, Why was I even going on anyways? It was just a habit. So just putting in those, those safeguards really, really helped. Yeah, quite honestly, I'm on my, on my laptop working quite a bit. Yeah, like going out for dinner maybe with, with friends some nights, but it's mainly just gym, work. That's about it. Nice.

How did you start working with a performance coach and, and what were the objectives and how has it been so far?

Yeah, so I started working with him in January and the reason I did it was because, you know, when you, you're busy all day, but at the end of the day you're like, I just didn't get shit done. Like, what's going on here?

Yeah, I know this too well, man.

Yeah, man. And when you're running a business, you realize you, You are your only cap, you know, you're the only limitation. And I was just realizing like, I'm not where I wanna be. Like, I know I have all this potential, but I'm not reaching it. And I would just get frustrated 'cause I'm following these habits of checking social media and all this stuff and just kind of, kind of getting burnt out 'cause I'm doing all this shit. So my one friend Connor, he recommended Leon and I, I, I saw his stuff for quite a while. I just never took action. But, uh, yeah, I got a recommendation from Connor, and so I booked a call, and just, I could get a sense like this guy's the real deal, you know, like no bullshit on the call. And so yeah, I got in his program. Now I spent like $60,000 in the past year on coaching, but his program was, it was the best. That was the best investment I made because it was so much more than I thought it would be. Like, I thought it would be some productivity shit, but he goes a layer deeper and actually goes into, okay, why are you doing what you're doing and where do you want to go? So it's identity-based because you can get all the productivity hacks that you want, but if your identity isn't aligned, then it's not going to stick. So that's— he goes a layer deeper than most people. And that's what I really liked. And he actually cares about the people he serves and helps. Like you can, I can see it like a deep, deep passion for what he does. And I just really resonated with a lot of the stuff he says. And yeah, so I think it was a 3-month program. You get access to a community for like a year, I believe. But yeah, he's still checking up on me. Like he's checking up on me like a few days ago. Like, hey, how's stuff going? Like when, even when the one-on-one calls were done, I was dude, oh great. Yeah. Like that's, that's something that's rare, you know, like that, that one-on-one care. So I, I'm telling, I tell everybody about Leon and how great his program is because I honestly believe it's, it's a game changer for a lot of people. So yeah, this is not an affiliate or ad in any way, but But yeah, this shit's great.

No, that's sick. You see a lot of performance coach and, and life coach shit on the internet get kind of slack. And so I feel like I've been so desensitized. So hearing from ones that are like legit, it's good to see. It's, it's good to see. Yeah.

Yeah. Because it's, it's not even like the life coaches, they're all like fluff, but he actually like science-based shit. And like breaks it all down and then even gives you the tactical stuff, you know, like shit that can actually be applied. Like a lot of these life coaches, they don't know what the fuck they're doing 'cause they're just saying fluffy stuff and they don't have any experience. Like this guy's got business experience and he is actually applying actual shit. That's, it's great.

100%. So Dakota, where do you see yourself in 10 years? Where do you see the business, everything?

Yeah. So I look at what Chris Do and The Future are doing and I absolutely love it. I will— I love education. I love self-education. I know how impactful it is and what— how impactful it has been on my life. And I want to do that for other people. So right now I'm in the learning stage, like I'm teaching myself all these skills. I'm going to do this forever. But along the way I'm, I'm going to teach what I'm learning to other people. So right now it's the ghostwriting and social media and I'm teaching that to people. But as I learn more skills and stuff, I'm gonna teach it to, you know, to a different audience or to a broader audience, all that stuff. So I'm going to create a huge educational company to monetize online. And I think the core of that will be building a personal brand and then stacking on whatever skills you want on top of that. But yeah, because that's where my passion is, is teaching and helping people do whatever the hell they want as long as it's not being a dick to other people.

Facts, facts. I mean, I similarly value freedom and, you know, in my newsletter a lot, I wrote a piece called The Sovereign Creator. I would definitely consider you one of them, whereas it's like you're free, you know, and you have your own audience, you own the audience, and you're free to wake up when you want and create the content you want, curse on podcasts, drop personal stories. Like, it's a beautiful feeling that I think everybody who's listening to this is chasing, and I'm blessed to be part of it as well. Dude, this, this is great. I think we hit all the questions and solid half hour and this should be really good for people to listen to.

Hell yeah, brother. Well, I appreciate you having me on and let me curse and say shit. So thank you, brother.

All right. 100%. Talk soon, man.