19861107 Evening Lecture in Soho, London by His Holiness Jayapataka Swami Maharaja

Foreign.

The following is a class given by His Holiness Jaya Pataka Swami Maharaj on November 7, 1986 at ISKCON Soho Temple in London, UK. The class begins with a reading from the Sri Chaitanya Chartamrita Anshilila chapter 4, verse 87 through 104.

Translation. Then said to Harida as Thakur, my dear, please hear me. This gentleman wants to destroy another's property. One who is instructed entrusted with another's property does not distribute it or use it for his own purposes. Therefore telling him not to do such an unlawful thing. We are falsely proud of our capabilities. Actually, we cannot understand your deep intentions unless you inform us. We cannot understand what your purpose is nor what you want to do through whom. My dear sir, since you are a great personality, since you, a great personality, have accepted Sanatana Goswami, he is greatly fortunate. No one can be as fortunate as he. Dash Caitanya Mahbhu embraced both Haridas Thakur and Sanatana Goswami. These are two great devotees, and then got up and left to perform his noon duties. My dear Sanatana, Haridas Thakur said, embracing him, no one can find the limits of your good fortune. Caitanu Mahu has accepted your body as his own property. Therefore no one can equal you in good fortune. What Sri Caitanya Maharbhu cannot do with his personal body, he wants to do through you and he wants to do it in Mathura. Whatever the Supreme Personality of Godhead wants us to do will successfully be accomplished. This is your great fortune. That is my mature opinion. I can understand from the words of R. Caitanya Mahaprabhu that he wants you to write books about the conclusive decision of devotional service and about the regulatory principles ascertained from the revealed scriptures. My body could not be used in the service of R. Caitanya Maharabhu. Therefore, although it took birth in the land of India, this body has been useless. A purport by Rla Prabhupda For a further explanation of the importance of Bharat Bhoomi, one may refer to the Avi Leva 941.

Bharatbhoomi is an ancient name of India.

And also Srimad Bhagavatam 5:19 verse 19:27. The special feature of a birth in India is that a person born in India becomes automatically God conscious. In every part of India and especially in the holy places of pilgrimage, even an ordinary uneducated man is inclined toward Ka consciousness. And as soon as he sees a Ka conscious person, he offers obeisances. India has many sacred rivers like the Ganges, Jamuna, Narmada, Cauvery and Krishna. And simply by bathing in these rivers, people are liberated and become Ka conscious. R. Caitanya Mahaprabhu Therefore says, one who has taken birth in the land of higher blooming India should take full advantage of his birth. He should become completely well versed in the knowledge of the Vedas and spiritual culture and should distribute the experience of Ka Consciousness all over the world. People all over the world are madly engaging in sense gratification and in this way spoiling their human lives with the risk that in the next life they may become animals or less. Human society should be saved from such a risky civilization and the danger of animalism by awakening to God. Consciousness. Ka Consciousness. The Ka Consciousness movement has been started for this purpose. Therefore, unbiased men of the highest echelon should study the principles of the Ka Consciousness movement and fully cooperate with this movement to save human society. So Sanatana Goswami was thinking about taking his life because he had all type of sores on his body. And Lord Chaitanya was still embracing him, getting the pus from the boils or eczema. And so he thought, this is so offensive. This is so bad that my pollution from my body is Vanya, Lord Caitanya. Therefore I should take my life. But then Lord Chaitanya, he said that because your devotee, your body is pure. So I don't take anything to be a contamination. In any case, you've already given your body to Ka. So you cannot take it. You cannot take it or trade it or do anything. This time he gives an example. If someone gives you something, you don't have the right to give it away. But since a devotee surrenders his body to the service of Ka and then Ka in effect returns the body back to the devotee to use it in his service. Happens automatically.

You don't see the body change places.

But in effect, when we offer our body to Ka, that's what's happening. So then we have to take care of the body. Because it's Krishna's property. We can't see it destroyed or harmed. We have to keep it healthy. At the same time, neither can we. We don't have the right also to destroy the body in any way ourselves. We should simply use it in Krishna service because it's his body. So that's the first part. Sun Haridaz Thakur is glorifying Sanatana Goswami that you got the mercy of the Lord. Because he's accepted your body as his own property. And moreover, he's meant to give you a very important service of writing books in Vrindavan about the culture of Ka Consciousness. So then he is lamenting that I haven't been able to do any kind of service. So therefore what is the use of my living? My life has been a waste. Of course, this is all humility because Haridaz Thakur, he was a great preacher. He would be spreading the glories of the holy name everywhere, wherever he went. Although he was such a great chanter of Hare Ka that when anyone would see him, they would chant. If he's walking down the street, people would see him. Even the little children. Somehow or another, they would chant. Even the people of other religions, they would also chant. Sometimes they would make fun and chant Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna make you on some mimic. And so then to make them feel more excited to chant, he would become overtly very angry. Like, why are you making all the inside. He's feeling very happy because they're chanting. So then they would chant more. Oh, the little kids, oh, we're getting angry. Then he makes, you know, bigger face and get them to chant more. This way. He was feeling very happy that he's getting them to chant. And Adidas Thakur, he was such a great devotee that wherever he went, he would. He would inspire people. Because of his purity, he would establish the real standard of Ka Consciousness. One day, Lord brother Haridas Thakur, he was traveling and there was one snake charmer in India. Even today they still have snake charmers. In fact, a little off the point. But just recently, about a few months ago in India, there was a snake charmer and he was playing his flute with the snake, but he got distracted and the snake bit him in the arm cobra. So normally you have about two, three minutes to live. Once you get bit by a cobra, you can about get about 2 Hare Krishna ran mantras and it's all over. Well, being an experienced snake chart, you know that you. He was in big trouble. So he took a razor blade and he just cut his arm, slashed it very heavily where it was bit. Then the poison took effect and he fell unconscious. But he got so much blood was pouring out of his arm because he cut all the veins and everything that when they found him, he only had about 2 liters of blood left. So they took him to the hospital and somehow they were able to save him. Because he had bled so profusely all most of the poison left the body and he was able to survive, they still have snake charmers even today.

This was in the newspaper, so it's.

One of the professions. So at that time, 500 years ago, there was a snake charmer. He was the devotee of Krishna. So he was chanting a mantra about Kaliya and Ka.

No, we have the pastime of Kaliya Krishna.

A pastime where Krishna defeats a really big snake. And when Haridas Thakur heard that person singing the pastimes of Krishna, he became very ecstatic because this snake charmer was a devotee. When he heard the chanting of Ka's glories, Haridas Thakura started to dance in ecstasy and chant Hare Krishna being absorbed in the mercy of Krishna's pastimes. But next to the snake charmer, a few yards away, there was an astrologer Brahman. He's also used to see on this roadside today in India, they have the chart of a hand.

Come and look at your hand, your lifeline and this line and all that.

So people come. So he was. Or they do charts and so on. So he was an astrologer sitting there, Pandit Brahmin, priestly person. And he's watching Haridaas Thakur dance. And he sees all the villagers come and start offering their obeisances to Haridas Thakur, that he's such a great devotee. He's dancing. It's just like so beautiful to see him dance in Mama Krishna that the villagers just spontaneously felt inspired to offer respect and bow down to him. So then the Brahmin thought, here I am a Brahmin. He's just some guy walking up and dancing and everyone's paying respect. I'm a priest. I know the whole, you know, astrology and everything, and people should be bowing to me. But nobody bows to me like that. So then he thought, well, I'm going to go and dance like him, and then they'll all bow to me. So he started imitating. But he's, you know, just, you know, dancing. When he's on, it's not natural. He's just artificially putting it on. Hari Das Hak was an ecstasy, you know, for an outsider. I mean, maybe it's hard to recognize, but a devotee can recognize immediately when another devotee is dancing in ecstasy. Because something very natural, even though it may not be like a ballet or something, but it has its just something natural. I mean, you know, it's spontaneous. It's not stiff or anything. It's just very extended. So the snake charmer, you could see that this. What is this guy doing, you know, Dancing, you know, trying to imitate Haridas Thakur. He said this, you know, this is totally bogus. So Haridas Thakur was dancing so much and chanting that he got stunned and fainted. So then the Brahmin imitated and he hops on the ground, imitates it. He's with the snake charmer, he says. He tells all the villagers, look at this Brahmin. He's a complete imposter. He's totally false, he said. And he goes and he gives a good kick to the Brahmin. So then everyone can see what ecstasy he's in. As soon as you give him a little tap, he starts howling. So then all the villagers got so angry because. But look at he tried to cheat you. And by doing this, he's offended the great devotee. So all the villagers started chasing the Brahmin with a stick and he had to run for his skin because of his offenses. Like at Hari Raj Thakur, he would catalyze indirectly many things which would induce the people to become more Ka conscious and purify people from their offenses. So I mean, this is countless pastimes of Hariba's Taq or how we deliver big society girl from king's court. So many different pastimes. So Sanatan Goswami is starting to glorify after hearing all these praises, the Sanatana. He is now describing the glories of Hariq as Thakur Sanajan Goswami replied, O Haridas Kakur, who is equal to you. You are one of the associates of R. Caitanya Maha Fabu. Therefore you are the most fortunate. The mission of R. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, for which he has descended as an incarnation, is to spread the importance of chanting the holy name of the Lord. Now instead of personally doing so, he is spreading it to you. Pratyaha Korotin, Lakonama, Sanktan Sabara Keronamin Mohima Khota. My dear sir, you are chanting the Holy Name 300,000 times daily and informing everyone of the importance of such chanting. Translation Some behave very well but do not preach the cult of Ka consciousness, whereas others preach but do not behave properly. You simultaneously perform both duties in relation to the Holy Name by your personal behavior and by your preaching. Therefore, you are the spiritual master of the entire world, for you are the most advanced devotee in the world. Report by RLA Prabhupada Sanatana Goswami clearly defines Hirin, the bona fide spiritual master of the world. The qualifications expressed in this connection that one must act according to the scriptural injunctions and at the same time preach. One who does so is a bona fide spiritual master. Hodidas Thakur was the ideal spiritual master because he regularly chanted on his beads a prescribed number of times. Indeed, he was chanting the holy name of the Lord 300,000 times. 3. Similarly, the members of the Ka Consciousness movement chant a minimum of 16 rounds a day which can be done without difficulty. And at the same time they must preach the message of Caitanya Mahprabhu according to the gospel of Bhagavad Gita. As it is, one who does so is quite fit to become a spiritual master for the entire world. So Harida as Thakur he was chanting 300,000 times a day which means 10 million hare ka mantras in a month, one floor. So if you chant 16 rams a day, that means that you chant 10 million times hare ka in a year, it's a lot of Hare Krishna heads up 10 million Hare Krishnas in a year. If you chant 16 rounds of Hare Krishna per day is 25,000, is 1/12 of 300,000. So he chants 10 billion in a month, he chants 12 times more per day. So in 12 months you chant 10 million. So we do said even when people are beginning, if they chant even one round in a day 108 times Hare Krishna, it starts to add up. And this builds up one's spiritual strength. It's a principle that one should chant a fixed number of Hare Krishnas every day. It's one of the Sadhanas or practices of devotional service. So Prabhupada guarantees that, well, if you chant 16 rounds, follow the principles of Ka Consciousness, then you can go back to Ka. You can also take people with you. Eventually you can also be a spiritual master and deliver people by preaching the message of the Bhagavad Gita as it is. So we recommend that people chant even if they're not able to immediately chant 16 rounds in a day. We recommend they chant some number of Hare Ka every day as a regular practice. In India we have a Naamhatta. Not only India, but all over the world we have Naamhatta program. And so some of the members who are practicing Ka conscious in their home, they're not immediately able to chant 16 rounds. So we recommend we start chanting four, then eight gradually build up to 16. And by doing so they can experience a profound change in their life that actually their life becomes a spiritualized in so many ways. And eventually they get more and more strength to chant 16 rounds. This principle of chanting Arigastokar was the best example. Even in his old age, he would always chant his fixed number of rounds. Here also, Prabhupada states, similarly, the members of the Ka Consciousness movement chant a minimum of 16 rounds a day, which can be done without difficulty. And at the same time they must preach the Kauta Caitanya Mahaprabhu According to the gospel of Bhagavad Gita and Sibera. One who does so is quite fit to become a spiritual master for the entire world. So Srila Prabhupada is given his sanction that if someone chants regularly 16 rounds a day and reaches from the Bhagavad Gita as it is, then they can, they're qualified or they're quite fit to become a spiritual master for the entire world. A spiritual master means a spiritual master for the world. Because spiritual master is not material. So if someone's a spiritual master, then it's not a material service. It's a service for giving people spiritual guidance. So repeatedly, Prabhupada wants his devotees to preach all over the world. But that doesn't mean that every devotee has to literally preach all over the world. They may, or they may also preach in one particular area, taking it as the guru Dattadesh or land given by the spiritual master and concentrate preaching there. But the goal is that eventually the whole world should be given this message of Chaitanya Mahatma. That was his desire that everyone should be given the opportunity to chant the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra. Of course, it's up to the individual's choice if he'll do it or not. But at least from our side, we should offer them the opportunity. Another important point here is that mentioned some people, they act very nicely, but they don't preach. Sometimes there might be someone they bathe regularly, very clean cloth, very good knowledge, like a pure priest or something. They don't have that they don't preach. They're good in their habits, very strict, but they don't have any. They don't preach, they don't give it to others. They just themselves benefit from their own practices. On the other side, sometimes there's people who are very expert at convincing large groups of people to take to Ka Consciousness. But in their personal behavior, they might be a little angry or they might have some sort of defects. They're not completely good in their behavior. They're a little rough at the edges, so to speak. So we see these two type of examples. But in the case of Harida Astagur. He was not only perfect in his behavior, but he's also a very dynamic preacher of the message of Ka consciousness. So this is our goal, that we should know how to behave. At the same time, we should be able to repeat the message of the Bhagavad Gita without changing, without to be able to present it as it is. In this way, the two of them pass their time discussing subjects concerning Ka. Thus they enjoyed life together. Note how one is offering praise to the other. He's totally detached, doesn't want to hear his own prayers immediately just ignore, says, no, no, you're the good devotee. My life is useless. You're actually the one who is doing so much service. In other words, say no, no, you're the one.

Like this.

So this is the principle of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. One should not desire respect for oneself, but should rather offer all respect to the other. Vaishnavas janada bi somiche na tora riba sahina amane Amanaena Amanena means not to take for oneself mana de to give respect to others. So you can learn this art of not desiring respect for oneself and giving to the others. Here in the movement of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, you see, without paying any fee to learn the same thing, you contain Dyal Carnegie, Amritsar Palms. He's saying the same thing. But actually the principle is originally coming from Caitanya Bhattu. It's a Vaishnava principle not to desire respect for oneself, to offer to others. And Dale Carnegie is making millions out of it. So he's not getting credit. Who is the original source? Probably because he doesn't know. But this is the. This is actually the Vaishnav or nature of the devotee. It's praise runs off him like water off a duck's back. They're not attached to receiving praise because sometimes they may receive infamy, may be criticized, sometimes they're praised. So they become equal to all these things. In fact, the Bhagavad Gita says a real learned person is someone who is equal to fame and infamy. Honor and dishonor the dualities of life. Recite when a. There was a devotee who was distributing books in an airport and one man came up and started to chastise the devotee. It was a girl devotee trying to distribute books and was saying that you people are all cheaters. Rascals. What are you doing giving all this useless thing out? Why don't you do something real, give some, Give people something real. So it just happened that one of the supervisors of the devotees was nearby. So he went and kind of believed the poor girl that was being, you know, so harshly dealt with and said, well, what's the matter? He said, well, these people are just giving out these useless books. What is the value of this? This? Why don't they give out something real? Then he pulls out of his pocket one candy bar. He said, like this, this is something real. It was a natural. It said, yogi bar. He said, look at this, has cashews, almonds, coconut, peanuts, real stuff, natural. Give out something. What's all this useless knowledge, no practical value. And said so many other things, you.

Can'T really take it.

So that person said, so you like this, this natural nut fire? He said, yes, this is real, this is substance. You can eat it, it tastes good, it builds up your body. So he said, you know who makes this here? It says, it says here, Lu Varshana. So? And so it was made by. At one point, at that time, the devotees had a factory and they were making these natural candy bars. That's why they had the name Yogi or Bliss Bar. So then they said, we make that. It's made by the Hare Krishna devotees. Well, then you guys might not be so bad. He had to choose between giving up his yogi bar or. So sometimes people come up and praise. They're very grateful. Sometimes people come and they say the worst thing. So person has to become transcendental to the bodily identification that if somebody praises me, I'm going to feel all jubilant. And if somebody criticizes me, I'm going to get completely frustrated and start lamenting, become equal. And in this way, whatever difficulties come in life, it doesn't affect you. You see, some people, they're just hoping for unshanti for everything should be very peaceful and no difficulty. But that's a very artificial position in the material world. Because at any moment there can be turmoil, there can be so many trials and difficulties. So if a person actually builds up their spiritual knowledge, then even some difficulty comes. They don't lose their temper, they don't become impatient, they don't start to lament, or if somebody praises them, they don't become intoxicated and start to think that, no, I'm God's gift to the world. They just remain as a humble servant of the Lord. So these great souls, they exhibited these qualities. And we can learn from the lives of great devotees how to take on these different qualities. So the Ka conscious movement is meant to for enlightening the people that we're not the body, that we are eternal spirit, soul. We're the eternal soul or spirit or living force in the body. And if we understand that we are the living force in the body, not the body, then the next step is to start to act like that. Normally people center their whole life around trying to simply provide certain amenities for the body. And if the body is a little cold or a little uncomfortable, then that's very bad. If the body is a little comfortable, then that's very good. But this is very. Your body will never be always comfortable or it's always going to sometimes be comfortable and sometimes be miserable. Sometimes it's attacked by diseases, sometimes it's pestered by flies and mosquitoes, or sometimes some near and dear. One says so many piercing words that enter into the core of the heart and cause so much pain. There's always some difficulty which is centered around the body. So practically to understand we're not the body, we're the living force in the body. That's a very basic concept. But it's most important. When somebody praises us, we don't become intoxicated by that and forget our responsibility to serve. Ka or somebody chastises us, we don't become so frustrated that therefore we also lose our determination to serve. So to be fixed in emotional service, we have to be equal to both to all the different dualities. And that comes naturally from identification with the soul, with the self rather than the body. And it's called self realization. So one puts the theory into practice when one is detached from this these different material dualities. So maybe I should just one. Like maybe I should open it up for different questions.

Maybe some of your questions just have a special idea. He was a pure devotee. And you said he chants 300,000 names. They used chant. But he's supposed to be the present Brahman. He should have been in Gondhavan. And why is he present Brahman?

Pardon?

He's supposed to be the present Brahma. Since he is such a pure devotee.

He should.

Be in Brahma.

He began after devotee when he joined.

Chaitanyandra Mahaprabhu or when he was serving Krishna.

He must have had the desire to.

Be a controller to birth as a Brahma. And subsequently he said pure devotee. Another question. Seek your Sat Chaitanya. Sometimes people come and they get very big rush, initial surge of enthusiasm, Krishna consciousness. And as a consequence of that spiritual experience they find the material world and their activities in the Material very detestable, very rejectable.

So.

We also find that sometimes if people act very rashly at that stage of their development in spiritual life later on, they feel somewhat disappointed.

Well, when there's a stage that one goes through that the nature of the mind is that you always get bored.

With things after a period of usually depends.

Say on average, something is very good.

At this Krishna consciousness.

Maybe it takes two or three months. Any new thing. Just like you hear a new record, hear it a few times, you get tired, you hear a movie or book or something. There's always an initial interest depending on different things. And after a while it fades. So similarly, when one enters into Ka consciousness at that time, the intelligence and the mind are very attractive and it's something new. So even apart from just a mature due to like a maturity or wisdom or something that's augmented by the mind also just being very interested in something new. So at that time, in the beginning, sometimes you find that a person has a tremendous enthusiasm. And it seems that, wow, they're really, you know, there's some. They're very enthusiastic or very good devotees. But then what happens is that after a couple of months the mind starts to go to the normal stage of, well, look for something else. The system they have by the river is like a cycle. Collect stamps and they collect coins. And you collect something or solver something new material world. So at that time, if one has sufficient spiritual knowledge.

Deities open. Right now I like to have Darshan.

Swamiji. So the point is that in that first three months, if a person is able to gather adequate spiritual understanding, then when the mind starts to get a little restless, the intelligence will be able to answer like it is a mechanical trait of the mind. And then a person can continue. So we stress that it's like a kind of. It's like when a person first runs, they have what they call the first wind and they can lose their breath. If they keep running, they get a second wind. And that goes for a long time. So it's like that first the mind immediately has, you know, likes anything to it. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a mature understanding. But at the same time, if they speak, study and actually gain spiritual knowledge, then when the mind starts to go through its tendency of let's look for something else new. Then you're able to control the mind and differentiate between what's actually good and not. Then after that, you build up a newer enthusiasm which is on a more mature level. And that doesn't.

That remains as long as you Keep up the basic principles. Spiritual life, consciousness in relation. How could in relation to Ka consciousness one should. Or if you achieved Nirvana. And how far he has to go spiritually? If you really every day, in the morning and in the evening, he doesn't have to chant too many times. But at least it takes the name of God. And God knows that he is taking his name spontaneously. This is my question. And secondly, I being a Solicitor practicing for 10 years in this country, yesterday and today I attended for High Court of Justice Supreme Court in England, Queen Banks Division. And while the judge was talking to me, I closed my eyes and I said, Krishna, would you help me? And the defendant embarrassed her. He was from Oxford. And the judge talked to me. I open my eyes. He said, are you listening? I say, I do, Lord. He gave me judgment against the defendant. But my question to Pranaya from you is in relations to Ka consciousness, how far one should go spiritually to achieve this goal?

To get Nirvana, how far should one go spiritually? All the way.

On the way. Yes, you could go spiritually on the way to get Nirvana, which is complete happiness after death. That is the meaning of Nirvana. You might correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, Nirvana means the cessation of material miseries. So one can achieve that state of Nirvana very easily, even before death. By practicing Ka consciousness, you can experience the cessation of material miseries and experience spiritual happiness even in this lifetime. Is explained Sukam Kottanabhayam in the Bhagavad Gita that this process is very joyfully performed because it gives realization of the self. There's two types of Nirvana. There's material Nirvana which the Buddhists achieve, which is the cessation of suffering. And there's a spiritual Nirvana called Brahma Nirvana, which is realized by Yogi. And that transcendental Nirvana gives one unlimited spiritual happiness, happiness on the level of the soul. So we are trying to bring people not simply to end their material suffering, but that they can realize the positive happiness which is part of the spiritual platform. Ka, the supreme personality of Godhead is by nature Sat Chit Ananda eternal blissful knowledge. So because he's the transcendental Lord filled with spiritual spiritual bliss knowledge eternally and because we are part of Him. Mamaya Vamsa Jiva Loki Jiva Bhuta San Antono. Therefore, we also have the nature of spiritual eternal blissful knowledge. We have to awaken our spiritual consciousness. This is done by a process of chanting and hearing. Regularly chanting morning and night. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare Rama Hare Ram Haram Haram Hari. We recommend that one chant a fixed number of times a day. We have meditational deeds which a one in meditating because you can use the sense of healing while chanting. This helps the concentration. So if you chant for say half hour in the morning, half hour at night, gradually increase it. So you can chant 16 rounds in a day, which takes about an hour and a half or 45 minutes in the morning, 45 minutes at night. Then you can achieve nirvana or spiritual happiness even in this world, even in this lifetime. And when you leave the body, you can go to the spiritual world eternally known as Vaikuntha or the place without any suffering.

That is what the Christians say.

Salvation, Maharaj, we are offering it now. You don't have to only wait for salvation. You can get the experience now. Otherwise why the Western people are taking to Krishna consciousness, They're not going to simply just for waiting for post daily check. They are immediately getting an experience of spiritual responsibility, relief, spiritual peace, spiritual happiness. So once you take up the process of Ka consciousness as a yoga very seriously, you can achieve that nirvana, Brahmanirvana, even in this lifetime. And when you leave this body, then it's a natural transition to enter into a spiritual existence. There's no pain at the time of death.

Hari.

Yes, one or two questions, but.

One just came to my mind with respect to Shiva. What is his position in this world? What is his activity that if one worships Shiva then he one goes there. Or is it like what is the position of the living entity if one worships Shiva?

Shiva is Munavata, expansion of Krishna who is in charge of the mode of ignorance or destruction. At the same time, he is the original masculine symbol in the universe. So he is very powerful. He is more powerful than a living entity and a person. He's known as Ashutosh, the one who's very easily angered and very easily pleased. Sometime one time there was a hunter and he caught a deer. He hung the deer up from a tree and so blood was dripping from the deer onto a Shiva linga. And it was very hot day, so that Shiva felt cool from that dripping liquid. He didn't differentiate what was the liquid or whether it's water or what happened to the blood. But he's very compassionate. Any good quality, he can appreciate that. So then he blessed that hunter with a very big benediction. So now in the hot weather India, all the ladies and everyone, they go and they put water on Shiva linga to get the blessings. So the point is that Lord Shiva, he can also give one spiritual blessings. But normally his devotees go to him for material blessings. And it said that whatever blessing he gives materially, in the end it always has some complications. So there's even a saying that Shiva Asher Baad Kulonash, you get the blessing of Lord Shiva but in the end it destroys your dynasty. So people, they always go to him for different material benediction. But he gives benediction without differentiating whether it's actually good for someone or not. And so sometimes those benediction, they ruin a person. If someone goes to Shiva and requests spiritual knowledge, he's also a devotee of Krishna. He'll give. It's a Vaishnava Sambhu. He can give the greatest knowledge about Ka consciousness. And Lord Shiva says that actually he's kind of disinterested. When these different devotees come up to him and ask for some benediction, he gives it without really considering the pros and cons. But when they. He's actually. He admitted in the fourth canto of the R Bhagavatam that the devotees of Ka are the most dear to him. And for them he gives special instruction and special guidance. But normally people go to him only for material reasons. So Krishna, Lord Siva himself has glorified the worship of Vishnu and the worship of Krishna. His wife Parvandi asks him that there are so many types of Puja and worship, so many Devas and which worship should we do? What is the best? So then he replied to Mother Parvati, Tadiya Ram, that of all the different types of meditation, worship of spiritual activity, Vishnu, Aradhana Param, the worship of the supreme personality of Gandhi and Vishnu, Krishna that is the supreme. He said, with only one exception, my dear Bharati lady. To worship those sacred objects connected with Krishna Turiya, for instance, the devotees of Ka, the holy name of Ka, the sacred foodstuff offered to Krishna, Mahaprashade, Govinde Nam, Brahmani, Vaishnav, Swalpa, Purnyanpath, these things are more purifying than even worshiping Krishna directly. So Lord Shiva. If you study the teachings of Lord Shiva in the Bhagavatam, you'll find that he advises one for ultimate liberation, ultimate perfection of life should worship Vishnu or Krishna, the original form of Vishnu. So Krishna said that those who worship me come to me. Madhya ji and those who worship the demigods, Devan Deviya, Jayanti Madhya ji, Aunti Mama P. Those who worship the Devas, they go to the planet of the demigods. And those who Worship Krishna, they go to his supreme abode. So the difference between Shiva and Vishnu is very subtle. In one sense it's described that Vishnu is like milk. Vishnu never has contact with the material nature. When he expands as Shiva, then he has contact with the material nature. Just like milk in contact with tamarind becomes yogurt. So Shiva is compared to like yogurt.

Or.

And ka or Vishnu is like milk. So milk and yogurt are the same. You can change milk to yogurt, you can't change yogurt to milk. But it's the same melt product. Yet there's a difference. So this way Sambhu is considered to be a transformation of Vishnu in the material world. There's a Vaishnava sample because he's a pure devotee and he's a spiritual master also. Therefore he has established a Vaishnava of the Supra succession known as the and that's coming down to Vishnu Swami and Bhalavadsharya Abujara is coming in that discipline succession. You're from which part of India originally?

I'm from Mombasa. Mombasa, Gujarat.

So the Balavacharya is coming in the Vishnu swami site which is originally he got inspiration from Lord Shiva.

Is there a planet Shiva with one Kailash?

He has a plane, it's called Kailash. It's at the border of the material and spiritual world. You can go there. But if you want to go to the spiritual world then you have to go to the planets of Vishna Lokas.

What is the bodies like in Shiva's planet? Way of like we have ghost, subtle body, spirit.

No, that because it's at the border. You have to leave the universe to go there. It's the border of the material.

It's definitely a more type of spiritualized body.

Nature. It's not the ordinary body. There's a Kailash in this world, but that's like a Vrindavan. There's a Vrindavan in the spiritual world and there's vrindavana in Mathura. 100 miles. 100 km from Delhi, 50 miles from the Taj Mahal where Krishna has his pastime similar to the Kailash at the border of the material and spiritual world where there one has to have a more. It's a suitable body for that place. It's not. It's not just an ordinary gross material body. But in the material world there's also.

A representative of that treilas and that's in the Himalayas. It watch my service. And if there is Change of material desires at the time of death. How would Krishna look at it? Would he accept it as devotional service? Or would he just consider that one.

Should have a spiritual master that.

Can.

Purify one's material desires. Desire to eat. You have to eat to live. So one learns how to eat prashanth or sacred food stuff. Or one has a desire to enjoy family life. So then there's a way of having a Ka conscious family. One has certain other desires, so there's ways of practicing to dovetail or to engage these desires in the productive services of Ka consciousness. If a person does that, they get purified from the reactions, then they can enter into the spiritual world. If a person leaves the body with some very strong material aspirations which are not fulfilled, then Ka give one another chance to fulfill those desires by taking another birth. Therefore, in this lifetime we need to confide with more advanced vaiavas what type of desires we have and either learn how to engage those in Ka service or if there's something which is not really beneficial, then how to understand the the real nature of those desires and to purify them. We only stay in the material world because we have some very strong desire to remain fulfilled. If our overwhelming desire is to go to Krishna, then we go there. But if we want to be a sitar player or something, then Prabhupada said that Rabbi Shakar took birth. This is his ninth birth.

Now he's become a world famous sitar player. But wasn't that this is his first birth as a satire player? Develop over so many items you got.

To keep the desire to maintain the desire.

If this would really overwhelm it, could it could. Could it mean that it could be the end of material right?

Could not necessarily.

I realized Krishna, why Krishna prove more evident that and why Krishna asking people prove more evident that he assist?

Why doesn't he give more evidence?

Yeah. Then the last thing you said was that he exists.

That he exists. Yeah. So much evidence he's giving. How do I read? He doesn't give more because there are so many atheistic people that want to believe that there's no God because that's their overwhelming desire. So he makes his presence subtle enough that if they want to, they can say, well, maybe there's not a God, it's all the evolution or something. Although great thinkers like Einstein and so many others, they all came to the conclusion that there's definitely intelligence behind the creation of this universe, behind the formation of the universe. Just like in London, every night the street lights are going on in the morning, people are sweeping the street with machines and things are going on. We may not see the lord mayor, but you know there's a government in the city because everything's going on. So in the universe, things are all going on like clockwork. You can say, well, there's no example of something that's so orderly that this is an accident. Just to keep something running, it takes a full administration. So Krishna has a universe. It's all. There's summer, seasons and everything is going like clockwork. So people can realize. Well, any sober person can realize there must be some intelligence behind it, just as they realize it must be a government. Even if you can't see it, you know that it must be there by the symptoms. And if you chant Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Hare, Hare Hare, then you can directly realize Krishna. Why don't you try this process? And then Krishna will reveal himself to you in various ways so that you can have your doubts removed. That's why he gives us process of Yoga. So by chanting we can realize it. By practicing the yoga process, we can realize. But for those who don't want to know, the Lord who want to remain in ignorance, so he. He also provides that option. He gives them a few excuses. Well, maybe there's no, although it's not very common sense. But the doubting person.

He'Ll be made in their ignorance. People don't like to suffer. I think they're looking for Kusa.

If someone's looking, you'll find you're looking, you'll find they are.

They don't know how they are.

For those who are looking, we're providing them a means so that they can find. You see, there are some people that they don't want and I want to know. But for those who want to know, the door is open. They can easily realize.

I already have an experience that I am one with Brahma and part of Brahma. And do I need to do anything more and just be aware?

Well, there's three levels of Brahman realization. Samiyeti, Brahmaat Meti Bhagavani ti sabyute. So realizing that one is one with the Brahman is considered to be the realization of the sat feature of the absolute truth. But if one realizes the one is the paramakna is in the heart, the super soul, then that is realizing sat chit for knowledge and eternity. And then if you realize he sat chit anant, then you realize Bhagavan, the personality of God, that he is a personal form of Brahman he known as Haram Brahma, Aram Brahma Vive Ka means the Aram Brahma. So we may realize we're Brahman or we're Spirit. But the Supreme Spirit is Ka. Just like if we say there's minister and Chief Minister, you say there's a chief Minister, that must mean there must be a minister. Otherwise you don't need to say there's a Chief Minister or a Prime Minister. So if you say Haram Brahman or the Supreme Brahman, that means there must be ordinary Brahman. Otherwise you don't need to differentiate Haram Brahman and Brahman. So he said Aham Brahmasmi, I am Brahman, that is that we are one, we are Spirit, we are of the same spiritual quality. But the further realization is that actually we are part of the Param Brahman. And when we establish our relationship with the Param Brahma, we re establish our relationship as a servant or a part of the Param Brahman, then that realization as much is complete. More than just realizing we're Brahman, we may realize we're Brahman, but as soon as we do any material work then there's a reaction. Realizing we're Brahman will also still make us liable to karmic reaction for whatever we do. If we can live without doing anything, alright. But in Bhakti Yoga, because every action is done as a service for the Param Brahman, he takes the reactions and one is free from Karma. So if you've already come to the Krishna said there are four types of people who come to him. Those who are in distress, those who are in economic need, those who are inquisitive, and those who are wise who have realized the truth. So if you already realized Brahman, you realize the truth of Spirit. Then Krishna said, of all the four those who are wise men who come to me and become my guinea, they're the dearest. So then you can take shelter of Krishna and then realize the Param Brahma and you can be free from the reactions of Karma in this world.

Examine. But no Krishna says so far my experience is I have no contradiction at all. Can you kindly guide me to see.

One realizes the Param Brahma, there's no doubt it's a very elevated realization. It includes within it the realization of Brahman. So when one realizes the Param Brahma, Jai Shishi Radha Lamisha realizes the Param Brahman, then one also has a certain relationship with the Param Brahman. And then one is able to experience the spiritual bliss which is the symptom of that would mean that one who becomes detached totally from material suffering and enjoyment. And different symptoms. There's different levels of development towards realization. So these symptoms are mentioned in the nectar of devotion as well as in the Chaitang.

It's very hard to hear.

Because you have the column between you and me. The last line was. Who is the Lord of all of the universes? Who is the one single Lord of all universes who eradicates all fear from living entities?

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