20030407 || Nāmahaṭṭa Presentation and QA session || Atlanta, USA #JayapatakaSwamiArchives

Sugar was the last number I heard. But I think more or less may have a problem now because people don't reside there permanently, they work there. Expatriates from India, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, different countries around the world, they come there, they get transferred, they get retrenched, they get, you know, retired. So the problem is that they do have somebody all trained up to be a great leader and all of a sudden he gets transferred to another country which has worked good in some ways that they go to other country and then they spread it in that country because they're already trained up. But in spite of that they weren't able to maintain a growth. So I don't really. I heard that you give presentations. I really wanted to see what presentation you gave a little. I don't. I'd rather, rather than. I'd rather like hand it over to.

You.

Hang it over from here. Everybody wants to be. They hear me all the time. I don't know if you believe me anymore, but at least the hearing is to see the words, especially to a lot of ladies.

Since about 1989, we went through the Gulf in 1984, just my wife and I were the first practicing Krishna conscious devotees in UAE and Oman. We had others in other countries also.

So.

Initially we had just gone from India where we just visited the Jew Temple. And then we had Prabhupada's books with us. And when we went to the first country where we stayed, we were just reading the books and we were chanting. Then in 1988 we moved to another country. And in between we had been to the Bangalore temple where the temple president there introduced us to Guru Maharaja. Our Guru Maharaja, his old minister Swami, and he suggested that we should preach. In 1989 we were initiated and then we started holding classes in a small way and it expanded to about 50 or 60 devotees used to come regularly for our programs which was conducted in our house up till 93 or 94, 95, when actually our Guru Maharaja then mentioned this Bhakti rickshaw method of teaching.

Which.

Of course the Christians had a different name for it and they were doing it in an organized way. The original method, basic methodology was of course adopted by Lord Chaitanya and learning thingand and Bhaktiyavanathakur later on. But it was organized in a special way by the Christians. And he had these books and he showed us and said, did you think this would work over here? And we said yes, why not? And then we started. Then we started getting amazing results and where more and more people Started coming for our programs. And then in the next eight years we expanded very vastly. As Guru Maharaj mentioned, There are about 3,000 devotees over there. Many have come out, of course, like Patsy Baba Mataji. She's gone out just now. She's in Houston, in Toronto, we have some devotees in Chicago. We have devotee in Africa. In so many countries, many of our devotees have gone and some of them have started Bhakti rich and is working here. The Gulf, of course, is the biggest. And from our country they have gone to other countries and started a yatras which on their own have got hundreds and hundreds of devotees.

Now.

Now, what is so special about Bhakti Braksha is the mood in which it is done. Apart from the technique. The technique being small groups and interaction, personal attention to each individual. It is well known to all educationists that if you just have someone giving a lecture and a group of people listening and then going away, the absorption, the retention are very small. On the other hand, if they are interacting, if they are answering questions or if they are asking questions, then the retention is much more. For that, we add personal care.

Where.

Everyone who comes to the program is taken personal care of by the leader of the particular group where he is welcome or she is welcome. And they are introduced into the group using a technique known as the icebreaker. And then their progress is monitored so that whenever they come across any difficulty, the group leader is there to take care of that material difficulty which is preventing his or her material progress. Because of this, people progress very rapidly. And normally anyone who starts coming to the groups, within a year or two, they would be chanting 16 noms and be ready for and following all the other principles and be ready for initiation. And then they will become preachers themselves, leaders of groups themselves.

Lately.

We have also been developing some literature to make it easy for people to conduct these programs. Because someone is a group leader, in what way does he conduct or she. So we find that in schools and colleges, particularly in schools, you have proper, ready made literature along with teachers, material by which a teacher knows exactly what to teach every session. So these, they are calling modules. And we have developed these modules. We have so far developed 18, 19 of them. So these modules are devised in a series so that in one year a fresh new person comes. The passages are selected from Srila Prabhupada's books. And then the cell leader, the group leader is taught how to actually conduct each session in such a way that people get drawn in, they learn something from that and then it goes on step by step and at the end of a series of sessions, they would have received what we call the Shiksha levels. I don't know whether they implemented well or not. So, for example, after about 12 of.

Them.

First level Shiva, after eight of them, the knowledge and the commitment of the devotees were attained in the Sahil Vishal that they could receive the first level certificate called Shraddha man, where they commit to chanting one round and attending the program regularly like that. We are developing a series so that by the time the whole series is over 52, there is one session per week. So at the end of 52 sessions, one year is over. The idea is that the commitment of the devotees and the philosophy which they have learned is enough for them to.

Receive.

Guru Ashwai, which means they would be chanting 16 rounds following all the principles. They would understand the philosophy. There was a Redha Bhagavad Gita, and they would be committed to Sri Lapala's movement. They accept this philosophy and they want to spread it. And then they can take shelter of one of the groups. So that is the idea of developing these fields. And we are trying it out. We have sent it out to our neighboring countries, to our others, and anyone who asks for it, we are sending it out by email so that they could implement it and give us their feedback so that we could modify it. This is roughly what we are doing now. Now we'd like to talk a little bit about the mood and the method of Bhakti Brickshad. A little bit about the method in case someone doesn't know. But more importantly, the mood. Now, the preaching there is conducted equally by the ladies.

Also.

The men are busy in the office work. The ladies also may be working, but less of them are working in the office. So they have. They also have the commitment and the dedication to preach. And therefore my wife and all the other ladies also are preaching. And they are also conducting programming and so on.

When a person comes and you welcome them, and then we start with the icebreaker or satsanga session, when people. I mean, it is just meant for breaking the ice so that people feel very comfortable with one another and they can unbind themselves and they feel very relaxed, basically. So we have some, you know, short questions to guide the discussion where people can just talk about themselves or any light thing. Say, the question could be something like, what is the best compliment you've received so far? Or what would you do if you received a million dollars? Something very light, which any new person can easily talk about. And it also helps people know about each one's personality. The idea being that it's not just philosophy alone. When people get to know one another, there's a lot of love interest being built up. We deal with one another very personally and then this helps in their Krishna consciousness. Because what motivates people to keep attending the Bhakti Vriksha programs is not any desire. I mean, liking for the philosophy of Krishna or anything like that in the beginning mostly, but it is because of the association they receive, the nice, warm, friendly relationships that they develop. That is the main incentive for the people to keep coming. So the icebreaker session though one might feel what is the necessity for this? It's nothing to do with Krishna consciousness and it may just lead to Prajalpa. But actually if the moderator or the facilitator is. He has to be, you know, careful that it doesn't lead to present power doesn't extend beyond its time. The time limit is 15 minutes for Satsanga and each person maximum of 15 members. So everyone is given up to a maximum of one minute to express whatever they would like to. So when the this sort of friendship exists and then it's gradually made more Krishna conscious by, you know, introducing like what we do is after say two months or so, after about six or seven sessions, when you feel that the members have know each other sufficiently and feel very relaxed with one another, then the, I mean, the leader talks about Prabhupada's books. I mean, something from Prabhupada's books mentioning how it changed his life, you know, and then saying something, some story or some lively, you know, points around making it interesting for them and then introduces to others books to them. And then maybe one or two would volunteer to take it, would be interested. And then the next week we ask them, would you like to share something that you've read from the books? So in this way the others are also motivated to take up reading and then share just in order to speak while others are listening to them. That's a very nice motivating factor to share something that with others. So this also helps gradually to make it a very Krishna conscious Satsanga where the devotees share their realizations and Krishna consciousness. So that is in brief, the Satsanga program in the beginning. Then after that we have the Kirtan for about 15 minutes. So it's a simple tune. And basically not just that the leader sings different tunes, but that the members can also learn it and then eventually also lead. So initially it's kept, you know, simple tunes like Prabhupada datun and all that. And then we also give the sheets to the members, you know, with all the mantras so that they can easily follow. And also another thing, we found that people, they're encouraged to go and offer incense during the kirtan. They feel nice. It's an activity, practical expression of bhakti. So we do that for the 15 minutes of kids. Then after that we have the japa session for that also takes another 12 to 15 minutes. So before the japa, we read out a passage from the Nama Vrita, Sri Nama Vrita, which deals with, you know, which has paragraphs from Srila Prabhupada's quotations on japa. So after reading out that for about two, three minutes, and then they do one round of chanting together, all loudly. And so this helps. And the leader has to be very encouraging and see that everybody is, you know, concentrating on the mantra. And this is very helpful because most people, they, you know, in the beginning, they don't chant at home and they look forward to chanting together once a week it begins like that. So this japa session is also very important. Then after that we have the spiritual edification when we take a passage from any of Srila Prabhupada's books and after someone reading it out, then we take a photocopy of, I mean, everyone is given a copy of the passage with the questions at the bottom to facilitate the discussion. So we have discovery questions, understanding and application question. So the discovery questions are just to get a, you know, general understanding about the topic, which is very simple.

Yes.

Yes.

So then, which doesn't mean that these are only questions. These are helpful. These are helpful for the facilitator that we got these relevant questions right.

So the discovery questions, you know, at a glance anyone could read it. It'll be very evident, simple questions. Then I'll be, I'll be reading out an example sample of that later on. And then after that we'll be having understanding questions to understand the purport of the passage be read. Then the application questions are very important because they are meant to actually see how they can apply it in their lives. So this is a very good time for the leader to also understand what difficulties or obstacles people are having. So each person is asked to share their, you know, how they are going to apply that. The questions are there in order to signal it. You're simply changing bodies. Therefore you should want to know how to stop this business. How can remain in your original spiritual body. This is Krishna consciousness. So after reading that, and then everyone can go through it for a minute, then the discovery question would be, can be, what is the difference between a living body and a dead body? So this is, I mean, anyone can easily guess that from the passage. And then understanding explain with an example how we can understand that we keep changing our bodies, but we are the eternal soul. So the example is there in the passage, but we have to understand it and explain it. How does the soul transmigrate from one body to the next at death? Again, it requires deeper understanding of the passage. Why do we get different types of bodies? When can we stop changing our bodies? So all the, you know, important aspects, whatever is there in the passage is covered in the understanding to make sure that they have a clear understanding, or I mean complete understanding of what is being dealt with. And then application. Do you feel relieved to know that you are an eternal soul? Share your impressions. So because this is the third week, so you know, so this application is.

Actually an extremely important, probably the most important part of this, these sessions. Because application actually forces people to apply what they have learned in their lives to start thinking about what this theory means in practice to them. So this passage, for example, is about body and soul. Now one can just think about theoretically, about audience. So if you question is asking what it means to you, that means do you feel relieved to know that you are an internal soul? So this is something very important. We keep on reading that you are not the body, you are not the body. But when it comes to actual living, we start acting as if we are a body. Our ego affects us, our illness affects us, our wealth and poverty affects us. Everything is affecting us. So even though we know that we are not the body, but actually when it comes to real life, mostly we are acting as a real body. So the idea of the application is from the beginning to draw based on this theoretical understanding of Krishna consciousness and make it practical. If you know that you are the soul, then you start thinking about it. So if you start understanding that you should feel relieved, share your impression. So the new person immediately starts realizing it, that look, I am the soul. And therefore this is what it means, this is what it means to me. Once he starts talking about what it means to him, then that lesson goes deep into the mind. And that makes a person much more likely to act as if he pursue that.

So after this, when we had a preaching session, there's a. Of course in the first few sessions we don't immediately talk about preaching. But after a few weeks, when you know, we tell Them. Because the idea is that the most important aspect of bhakti ruksha is that it trains all the members to become preachers themselves and to lead groups. It's not that only some can become preachers. Everybody. That is a wonderful aspect of the bhakti rickshaw, that it trains every member to become a preacher. And this we have personally seen in our yatra. Everybody preaches. It's not that some people do other services. They may do other services, but besides that, they also preach. Everyone preaches because through preaching is, you know how it's so dynamic. It helps us advance quickly, remove our anarthas and develop good, you know, vaishnava qualities. Because without that, we. We can't be successful with people. So bhakti miriksha, from the very beginning, this preaching is being, you know, we give training for the members. So how this is done.

One thing I would like to say about other services, that our yatra is 100 competition yatra. It's not. There are some people who are. Who are having a. Everyone is member of the congregation and everyone as well has the natives in the house. There is. We have a weekly program. We take a hall somewhat bigger than this. We take a hall on rent from. From a local temple and the financial programs there. So prasad is made for everyone. And for example, about 250 people come in during Friday. They come for the program. So we make prasad for all these 250 people who come. They have the morning prasad and. And then the altar is set up and so on doing an altar, we set up the altar. And then there is a lecture being given, the Sunday lecture kind of thing. That lecture is being people outside who are trying to talk to the new people who are coming like this. We have the programs going on, the weekly programs. And then we have whatever everyone is doing at home. And then we have the festivals. We take a bigger hall on rent for the festivals. We have. That big hall is obviously much more expensive. So we hire it for. We have a R, which is probably.

Bigger or about the same size as.

This one, or maybe a little bigger than this one. And. But we cannot take it out onto the road. So there was a big hall and we dragged around the hall. So thousands and thousands of people come for these programs and we distribute prasadam to all the thousands who come. The last time we have about 6,000 plates of prasadam we distributed. Now all the work for all this is being done by us, by the congregation members.

There's no rest to do.

So everyone does all these services plus reaching also, both are being done side by side. It is not that someone is doing this. He cannot preach. Everyone does everything. So.

I mean in order to inspire them about preaching, give them a general understanding about Chaitanya Mapu's mission and Srila Prabhupada's mission, etc, and then every week we read a small passage called Preaching is the essence. You know, that's Prabhupada's quotations on the importance of preaching. And then after that everybody is given a practical preaching task to do. The leader first shares this activity for the week. What did he do for preaching? And then he asked the other members. And for this, the previous week he would have assigned them each one to do something like say he has some contact numbers. He asked some of them to call those people up and invite them for the program or you know, any of their. Yeah, yeah, also in separate buildings they go and you know, call two of the two people. Even to totally new people, they just approach and call in for some, you know, just a Bhagurgita. Because there are two Indians, of course to different people you have to approach to Indians. We say whatever it takes to call people. We don't say that we are from, you know, what we exactly represent the movement and who we are and what we do. We don't reveal that in the beginning. We just call them generally so that any group, anybody affiliated to any other organization or group will feel free to come here. Because it's a general platform. Bhagavad Gita is common to all Hindus and even to other communities, other religious groups. You can say it's, you know, they sharing about the glories, the holy name or scripture, Vedic scripture, something.

And one of the reasons we normally just don't tell everyone we have ISKCON and Hare Krishna is because the reputation of ISKCON is that we are very strict. Everyone knows that we don't have animal.

We don't have J.

We don't do this, we don't do that. So many people are afraid that ISKCON means that I have to give up all these things. So beginning they say ISKCON that they think, oh, you have to give up. So they feel very. So he starts off by saying, you just come for a bharjan.

Well, of course once they come and enjoy then you know, the association and the people and the friendship, then they are ready to commit themselves the kind of commitment very quickly. They are ready to advance because they see others committing. And that's a big incentive because everyone discuss Openly. It discusses openly their problems or their misgivings or whatever doubts that they have because it's openly shared. You know, if somebody else has those doubts, they are able to clarify that. So, you know, the rate at which they, you know, advance is very fast. Though initially we don't tell them all that. But once they come, they like the mood of the things that voluntarily, they then advance in Krishna consciousness. So after the preaching session where they're given and then they may have doubts about how to approach people, they may be unsuccessful in the beginning. So then all these things are discussed in the preaching session. How to answer, you know, different questions, how to not, I mean, how to tolerate insults or indifference. Because that's very, you know, disconcerting in the beginning. When people are indifferent to you or they don't respond to you properly, then people tend to, you know, become very diffident about preaching. But really by pushing people, I mean, not pushing, that's not the right word, but or rather encouraging people to preach, it has a tremendous impact on the person. There was one Mataji who was so shy of, you know, preaching. Not because she was a shy type, but actually she was quite a dominating person. And she said that somehow my body language and my soul speech puts off people. I seem to come out as a dominating person. But gradually, by association and by encouragement, she was taken along with other preachers. You know, just how the Jehovah's Witnesses, they also always grow in the pairs. You know, the senior teacher takes the junior person along and then they observe the senior preacher how they deal with the new people. So she also, by just going twice surprise with an animata due to different buildings and watching how they are interacting with the new people and the positive responses they got. She developed so much of self confidence that after that, when she left our yada and went to another place, she was able to inspire so many devotees to start with, to, you know, take to this bhakti rickshaw preaching. And she was amazed at herself because initially she just would. She said, preaching is not my scene. I'll do any other sin service. But then just by practically engaging in, you know, dealing with people and getting this training, she's able to do so much now. So it. And every member can preach, every member can develop confidence. Even none of the. And all the members, I mean, gradually they advance to becoming a, you know, sector leader and you know, higher in the hierarchy, sector below, you know, chakra leader and then maha chakra according to how many groups they are looking after. And they in turn they have to look after bigger groups. And during festivals we have decentralized programs. And so many of these leaders give lectures. So they develop so many, so much of self confidence. And they have even developed the ability to give lectures. So it is not that it's amazing that the bhakti vriksha very quickly makes a person spiritually advanced to do all these tasks. Even illiterate people, you know, those who can't read and write that much, they help. In the other bhakti mirshas, they act as assistants and then they are preaching one to one to so many people. So nobody is left out. In this bhakti mirsha, everybody is trained to become a preacher. And then after that is finally the prasadam program, which takes about 20 minutes. We try to make the prasadam as simple as possible. So it's not very difficult for anyone to. For the host. And also we have the modules, actually the modules which he spoke about gives ideas and suggestions how to progress, how to instill in the members the value of prasadam. Not that they think it is just some, you know, feast that they are having. And then everybody says that I will also get something along just so that they don't. I mean, you know, they don't want to keep eating in somebody else's house. And then they feel offended. You know, these are practical problems. If somebody gets, you know, their food and then it's not good if the leader and, you know, keeps taking food cooked by newcomers because they may be meat eaters, they may be not following all the regulatory principles. So from the beginning, the leader, how he has to instill in them a value and respect for prasadam. So all these things are dealt with in the modules. So giving a very practical, step by step approach how to progress in conducting the Bhakti Bhiksha so that anyone who is fully convinced about prabhupada and the movement can easily start a group. And this we found that many people, even other places they have reported and those are not in Ayatra, but devotees who are born from our AV Yatra. But they have distributed the module to other devotees to start. And they said that it's having very good results because they are finding a lot of interaction and response from the members. So this is how the Bhakti Ruksha program takes place. And now about the mood of the Bhakti Ruksha because it's not just the techniques in it. Do you get opportunities in your country? Actually, unfortunately we are. We have to be very careful there because if they come to know that you're preaching to other communities, you'll be, you know, stopped completely. They would just pat us up and we'll have to leave the country immediately. Deporting, no question. They don't even have to give an explanation. They can just deport us and the whole movement can, you know, crumble down. Why? Because they don't want. The main fear is that we might preach our religion, you know, because it's. And also the number of Westerners are less. But we do invite them for the big programs somewhere for the Rathyatra and things like that. And they do come and appreciate, and we do. Maybe they will. Westerners are okay, and we found that they are also. There's no problem about Westerners coming, but the number of Westerners are very less there. But Muslims, we are very careful about approaching, though a number of them are exposed interest. And there is no doubt that if we really preach to them, they will become devotees. Yes, that's the only reason we are being very careful. But in other places too, it works. Like, for example, in Houston, they have a bhakti mirsha in San Jose, or Westerners are also coming there. And in Toronto, though of course, initially it starts with the Indian community. But other Westerners are also involved, especially in San Dusi. I think there are Westerners also. And what about in Busan? So before, the technique alone is not enough, but the mood is very, very important. The mood of the bhakti vrisha is definitely different. Different from the norm. I mean, not different exactly, but it's to do mainly with the human psychology, understanding people and understanding ourselves also how to be effective creatures. So from experience, we just like to share some points with you all. One thing is that bhakti is the goal of the bhakti Rusha and not Gyan, because. Just Gyan. Because sometimes people get into, you know, that we have to. Because people.

Yeah.

That sometimes people think that we have to only philosophy. So they think that you have to go through a lot of examinations and qualifications before you can become a preacher. For example, your tush Kapasastri or, you know, you have to know. You should have gone through all the entire Bhagavad Gita and Rud Bhagavatam before you can become a preacher. This is a common impression many devotees have. And so then they think that how can I lead a group until I can really answer all their questions? But the way to understand it's not necessary, because a leader, first of all, I mean, he should have basic understanding of the philosophy in Krishna Consciousness and make commitment to Srila Prabhupada. That is the main qualification. And the whole point is that bhakti is the goal, not that we are going to make them scholars. So bhakti involves practical application. So if the person is convinced about, you know, the process, then he can teach them definitely chanting through the passages are also there, the guiding questions there. So he can easily teach them about chanting, following the sadhana, any obstacles, day to day, whatever they may face. So practical things are considered in a bhakti rickshaw. And after they come to a certain point where they say probably chanting eight rounds and so on, then we attend study groups, either two together in some places. But what we have is a study group, a small group of people coming together, going through Bhagavad Gita and then even Srimad Bhavatam and so on. So Gyan is also there. But initially actually this is a great relief. When you're dealing with some preachers in other yatras and they said that once they heard about this, that bhakti is the goal, they felt great relief because they felt that they're not qualified to conduct. But once you reassure, they felt very reassured. And then they practically saw the program being conducted. Many came forward to start programs and they are being successful. And so.

You'Re saying that if somebody the personal cultivation have a basic understanding, just deal with the people very nicely, personally care about the people. He also said something similar. He said that in Namha that if you don't know the answer to some question or if you can't resolve something, refer that to the next person higher up. Don't get clusterfighting, just refer to a person machine of Mahat who can answer their question. You don't have to know. They have to be like previously in order to start off. Isn't that humble to know the acknowledge someone who knows more than.

And actually, I mean sometimes the leaders, they may hide their. They may feel uncomfortable to admit that they don't know, thinking that the members may not respect them. But this is not true because the members are looking what really they're looking for in the leader is a genuine concern, someone who is caring for their spiritual progress. That is the main qualification of a length. Not that he has to be able to answer every question that they ask. You can always refer back to senior. But the what the members are looking for is genuine concern and you know, compassion for their. Or concern about their spiritual growth. Then they trust him. I mean, if he's trustworthy, he tells them honestly that he doesn't know, but he comes back next week with the answer, then they really trust him and he becomes a parent figure because this a very personal relationship and the members look up to the Paki rickshaw leader as a parent. So a parent doesn't have to know everything. And he. Or I mean, in a family setup, it's like that child knows that, you know, there are grandparents and uncles and aunts, and so one doesn't have to know everything.

So one of the wonderful aspects and important aspects of Bhakti Brickshaw is this building up of the relationships.

Essentially.

The point being that people start following something not because they're influenced intellectually, but because someone whom they trust and they like is doing that and then they want to be like them and therefore they start doing it. This is the basic plan. If you just try to dryly prove that Krishna is the supreme personality of God, people will just say no. But if they've built a relationship with you, then they are ready to take it. As long as they've got nothing against it, they take it. It's as simple as that. People just follow someone whom they trust. Every politician knows that politicians don't try to convince anyone that this is good or that is bad. They just build a trust, like the President of this country or the Prime Minister. Everything was based on trust. And they lead everyone into a war based on the trust. Even though whatever the arguments they made may not have been convincing to anyone. But if people trusted them, then they followed. Happens in the army. It happens everywhere. And in Krishna consciousness alone, we should not think that it is because of someone being convinced that Krishna is a supreme personality.

Got it?

They'll take to it. They don't take to it because of that reason. Mostly people tend to just because they like you. And that is what the whole basis of Bhakti Bickshaw is. And this relationship, this relationship actually builds so deeply that we find that we have a network of relations all over the world. Now, for example, now we have come to the USA. I personally have got at least 40 or 50 close relations, material relations in this country. Close cousins, uncles in Archa living here. But in this trip, one month, they're going to spend. They're not going to spend any time with them because we have such close relationships with the devotees. We have, for example, Bhakti Baba Ahmadaji and her husband. And we have others like Kalasudar, who is also in Houston. And we have people whom they've introduced us to various places. They're going to Toronto, we're Going to San Jose, they're going to New Jersey and so on. We're going to. And we came Maya. Zurich. We went to Zurich first. So wherever we know people it is, the relationship will be built up. And they were with us in the Yatra and they are like our brothers and sisters now. And that relationship continues on even though they may have left years ago. And then we'll go and stay with them in their houses, just like relatives. And this is the way it continues. It's not that they leave the Yatra and we forget about them. They stay with us like family. That is the kind of relationship which is built up through this bucket, which are teaching. Then we emphasize the mode of serving with humility, which can only be done by example. If someone is acting as a leader, that means the leader gives the answers and everyone gives the orders and everyone has to follow. The leader has all the privileges and no one else has. And then he tells everyone else that you have to be humble. It doesn't work that way. Just doesn't work. I mean, it's fine. Theoretically you can say that. But practically, when you see that the leader is the one who is actually giving the orders and doesn't brook any descent, if you say no, then you're out and he gets the best of everything, then people will not follow. So the training for the bhakti bridsha leader starts with humility. If you are getting new people, you have to be humble to them. Everyone knows it's like customer service, because new devotees are like customers after they become old. Then familiarity breeds contempt, enemies. But in the beginning we take orders because he's a new person. He's not going to give up, he's not going to accept any orders. Now in Bhakti vriksha continuously stays like that. Every bhakti leader is constantly getting new people. Once the new people become a little old, the self gets divided. The old people become leaders. Always you dealing with new people, always you are in a serving mode. Always are supposed to be humble. And the best leaders are the ones who are the most humble. This mood builds up very practically. We don't just tell them theoretically, but in practice. If you're looking after a bhakti Vriksha group, you are forced to be humble.

We had many seminars in the beginning to cultivate this kind of mood of humility, Vaishnava etiquettes and so on. Because normally the tendency is once you get some position, then you tend to dominate or try to enjoy the position. So it happened in the beginning that when we had sector leaders, that is one leader looking after more than three bhakti rickshaws. So there was, you know, an air of authority and, you know, not understanding what exactly it meant. There was some domination and people were resenting it. And then the leaders were getting confused how to deal with it. They didn't know what was wrong. They thought something was wrong with the, you know, leaders whom they were working with. So then we had to constantly tell them that if there is a problem, then the leader, I mean, you have to win the respect by being humble, you know, by filling their love, by not trying to control. They're not trying to. Okay, so, so the, you know, whenever there was a problem, instead of just, you know, they would come to us saying that you try to tell them not to do that or you know, try to solve it by just controlling them or giving them a, you know, sort of what you call a statement that you are wrong and you have to follow your leader. But then that kind of thing you just force them to do. And then there will be resentment because in preaching it has to be voluntary. If people want to give their lives for preaching, if they want to look up to their leaders and follow them, then it has to be voluntary. So the leader has to build their trust and love. So it took a lot of time and training initially to train the sector leaders to develop that humble mood and not blame the juniors, the subordinates, but rather try to understand them and try to win their love and trust so that they voluntarily follow. And initially, of course, once these leaders are trained in that way, then we didn't have any problem because automatically everybody started following their example.

Okay, I would like to have the AR going. How you like to attend another session of this simulation. Sunday evening, Sunday evening, or maybe even tonight in the evening after the police, ministers, so many other people that are executed, right? The fish has energy. Some are for executing orders, some are for giving him pleasure, some are for performing different functions. So many energies he has and they're executing their functions. So amongst them, Radharani Supreme Energy the 14 chapter. I am the foundation of a verse number one. In fact there's so many different verses which support whatever the point says. But sometimes they're in the city of Christianity, innocent people, they are really open and then you can preach to them. Sometimes there are people who are like hardcore mad. Doesn't matter what you say, doesn't matter how much you defeat them, they don't want to accept. Cuz somehow in their brain it's already got short circuited so long that it doesn't going to be the circuit of correction very easily. So Prabhupada said, if they're not envious and if they don't, if you can get them not to talk on their temple or with their voice, then just personally contaminated. One way is engage them in service. Invite good service over a period of time, emotional service. And naturally they have a change in mind. I knew one person, he was really my poor man. But he used to meditate naked in his closet. Who was really, really into the impersonal which I when I eat, when I pull show that completely. I never saw. I couldn't talk to anymore. It's too much for me right now. I just like a bit shock. So then I left. Next day I came, it was all happy and everything's up. Well, I called up the Sanskrit professor and asked what does this mean? Here it says Brahmana. I am the base of the Brahman. Then how is it we're always saying that Brahman is the base of Krishna? How Here it says Krishna saying I am the basis of Brahman. Oh, that means the forehead of Brahman, which is totally bogus, completely Brahman. The purport says that this does not at all refer to the forehead of brave Vermont. The whole verses, the whole section is going about Vermont. But anyway, the guy was really happy I survived my bonus philosophy. But he was a real nice guy. Used to come to the temple street before help us get government permissions. He's influential man. So I saw him and this guy is one of these T nuts that we always talking about. So we just engaged him in service. One day he came to temple with a little brochure. It said the path of Jyoti or something said, look at it. It's okay, nicely put in his book. But you know, you can't distribute it anyway, keep it there. You know, we're just getting real nice to dying age and come every week to the temple of Chandra Krishna. After a few years he told me that, you know, now I'm starting to see what you're talking about. I took years to get that chanting. Finally one day Krishna is the supreme personality Godhead and then Brahman is his falsehoods. It took years. Some people are like that doesn't matter what, even if you defeat them, they're not going to accept it. So if you get someone like that and don't waste your time, they just instead they don't say whatever it is is any one absolute truth. And all the data say this is a preacher about chanting a holy name and avoidance. Because anyway, even Maya bodies in greeter channel. But if you get someone who's really willing to listen, it's better one on one. If you got a whole group of Mayavadis then you know they're going to gang up on you. It's not otherwise always recommended. When you start asking them questions, what's your time? You just start asking questions, nobody had the answer. If you ask certain questions, a certain order, right to the point questions. My advice, that's another way of forgetting in preaching there's the sloka that says dal dasha patra time place, the circumstance that you can't really separate that from preaching. Because the sight of priests searching is like being a doctor. You want to give a medicine. You got all kinds of medicines, right? Doctor has so many kinds of medicines that are going to try. But every patient is like different. Usually you go the easiest way first. Don't get into big controversial points first try the easy way, then serve one way with experiences back to learn. Whereas the prayer to this a little bit enough to know where the person is at, what their point of view is. So you can give the correct answer. If you know, listen a little bit to them and know really what their question is, what their doubts are, what their point of view is. When you just start speaking and you may be addressing a totally different point of what they were. Usually we go at least if you want a general rule of thumb is to take the easiest points first. But there may be always exceptions. It may be a person that just has a particular question and you go through the some routine. Okay, you're not the body, you're the spiritual. You may wish what their question is, what their doubt is. Maybe they may raise up good questions. So directly try to. If you can address specific doubt they have first and then after that you can go to the kind of an esoteric Ashtakal. It means that there's like in a day of 24 hours divide the day up in three hour segments. So three times three times eight is 24. Right, that's. So for every three hours there's a different place and different mira that goes on. So some devotees, when they become very Krishna conscious, they meditate on the Lord. This time obeys the in this activity midday he goes in rang. Then he goes to this place where it's like there's a whole routine what he does in red. So that's what Ashtaka. But it's not essential for us to know those things. Yes. Then your ego really goes There. Yes. If reincarnation is visit, should we have flashbacks? Couple second flashback? Why a couple seconds or a couple minutes or more? I think they don't. Most people do have what they call like I've been there, I've been here before. The same kind of issue. How many of you ever have deja vu? So that connection with the subconsciousness is there. But somebody asked you the problem wouldn't be really remember our previous life. And the problem said that, well, you already got so much Maya and so much, you know, distraction in your mind from this life. So if you're going to remember a number of your previous lives, only become much more kind worse. My previous life, my wife, she did this to me. She was really bad, all like, you know, my husband cheated on me. Maybe this life, my husband cheated on me. You become a real psychosis. And subconsciously and is for some people. There was a lady who was always doubting her husband. This is a psychology case history. And the husband said I'm honest, I'm really not messing around with anybody else and I'm not looking. I really love my wife, but she always doubting me. So they took her to a psychologist and he did a. Couldn't find any reason why she was doubting, but she had this very intense paranoia. So then he took her in a regression where by hypnosis they can take the person to their previous life. So now you're, you know, 14, 12, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Now you're back in the womb of your mother. Now you're in your previous life. No, speak to me in English and don't move and tell people things, you know, sometimes, you know, in the previous life they start speaking other languages. They tell everyone what to do and not to move. And they said freaking out sometimes. Anyway, so it took her back. And then she was in her previous life. She said she was in Scotland. She got married when she was 19. It was like that she was married this L shaped church, that's for sure. And but then, you know, it took her a year after he went this very soon after her marriage, for some reason the husband took her off and left. And so that was the reason why she was always fearing that this husband would leave. That was his conclusion. Took her back, brought her out. Now here they had the whole thing in video and they had this time they had a. Like Scotland's an old place for thousand years and more. So they went there and actually researched is there such a church in such a town? Was she the main. Her Name, her husband's name. So they found it was such a church. It was L shaped church. And the church had records went back for years. So then they checked in the record and they found out that there was such a lady who married such a man that took your notes 18, whatever it was. So there's like all kinds of this. We had here a few years ago a parapsychologist. I don't care of a psychologist. But he was. I think he was even a professor or something. One of the universities around there. He. I think he said he did perform 10,000. Most of imagine how long that took him to do. But. And he had so many case histories of taking people back. Aggression, OOD experiences. Also we was talking about near death experience. Different things. So he had all kinds of these histories that he was talking about. But so there is like that kind of also. How do you explain how did this person go, you know, have this experience in this life. They were feeling fearful happiness and husband leave me. She's paranormal all the time. Everyone always done. Then she take her back and she has this experience and she says how she would deserve a previous life. So there's this kind of evidences also. I don't know. I know I had a disciple. I have a disciple who's quite good at regression. Years ago I used to go. And then we went South America and the Council General of Peru wanted to be regressed. Few people like that. He was progressing people to a previous life. So people. If you use that system you can. Everybody wants to. They can find out that he is like. But one devotee told me that when they were regressed they told him that they were like a warrior in Rajasthan or something. And they were there in some battle fighting with some other Rajputs or something. So it's not like watching the TV or something. You were there. It's like a member. You're there. Smell the blood. You can smell the horses and the dust and the screaming and the emotions. You know you're reliving exactly what you're doing with something you just like. It's really heavy. You may not want to really go back. You know, you don't know what you're going to find. There's another way. Bhigu Samhita has a book. You can go there. If you give your birth and time and all the details. Then every everybody's chart who is going to go there and ask for their previous life. The charts are already in that book. Not every chart, other combination. Just the chart is the people that have so you go there and your chart will be there and it'll tell you, okay, this is why you got this birth. This is what your birth is now. This is what the situation you're facing now. So then you find, if it matches up with what you know, then you can say, okay, well, that's true. That's it. This is why. This is what your previous life was. And that's why you have this life. Pardon? I never heard. I didn't hear that about futures. Only thing I heard about futures, like great Rishis, like the Sistavuni and Nas or like that, they have a vision of the future. You don't hear too much about the future sometimes. So how much is it going to take you to convince you of reincarnation? What evidence you want? Obviously there's always going to be some empirical person that gets brown. And you never know. There's a really interesting case. The different kinds of knowledge, like material knowledge, transcendental knowledge and realized knowledge. Sorry, so technical explanation or a simple. Well, one thing is probably the system, like explanation of deductive knowledge that materially we come to conclusions based on our experience. So that has certifications. They say that you see every swan you see is white. You can finally, after you see so many Swans, you see 100,000 swans everywhere. You're seeing swans and they're all white. So you deduct that, okay, swans are white. You never went to the Rhine river or wherever it is, somewhere in Germany they have actually black swans. And all of a sudden you see a black swan. Your whole deductive reasoning is disproved. So material knowledge is always eliminated. You never 100% sure because it's based on what you're observing. Just like what's it here? The FDA or whatever, the Food and Drug Administration, they approve medicine. So they'll make some company test, you know, how many thousands or hundreds of people. And then after testing, if nothing shows up wrong, then, okay, they give her permission. But then after some time when it goes in the market and millions of people are using it, then they find that for every 100,000 people, 16 people go blind or get paralyzed or get leukemia or something. They withdraw the medicine from the shelf. And so, you know, tell you you're never 100% sure. You just deduct based on what you're observing. So the more we observe, then I will do more. But there's always the possibility that, well, there's some other situation that you didn't know about. Whereas spiritual knowledge is called inductive reasoning. Belief by Getting the truth from the absolute truth itself. So it's being handed down by the Pacific succession. And therefore then we get this inductive and then we get into explanation why something's happening. Simple example that maybe there's a noise upstairs. We start thinking what's happening. We start speculating. Maybe somebody's playing ping pong on the floor. You go upstairs and find that somebody is sick. And they have eclectic fit in their heads hitting the window. Because you're speculating what's going on. You go up and then you find out somebody comes and tells you this is what's happening. So that's reflective. Somebody is telling you from experience, but in this sense it's from the transcendental experience. It's actually more. We think that if you see it, if to believe it, but that's not necessarily so. People living in islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, they would see that all this. Usually the people who are trying to achieve liberation are considered people that do devotional service out of anger, revenge. I'm going to be a better devotee. I need to come up the end of my life. I got to show that guy I'm the best of all this ashram. So that's like, you know, the morning there is, it's like kind of anger. And then somebody says, I'm going to do devotional service because, you know, I want to get that I want. I went to do devotion service so I can get the blessings of Krishna to become the king of Timbuktu. So there's devotional service mixed with passion. And somebody who does a devotional service because they want liberation, different megalomas becomes like witness not harming anybody else, not something. But somebody wants to serve Krishna because they want to please Krishna. It says there's unlimited permeations of mixed devotion. Just like you can mix the primary colors of yellow, blue, yellow, red and blue, you get millions and millions of colors. So you mix these different desires with devotional service. You get so many different shades of color that doesn't satisfy. The heart is mixed. But pure devotional service is only one kind. How many here want pure devotional service? Thank you very much. Thank you. Devotional services. By serving him through initial in this lifetime, this Next, let's say 10,000 years. We don't present things in that kind of absolute way. We rather say in a more positive way that as you sound, one should perform devotional service. Purely pure devotional service. Srila Prabhupada was a pure devotee. He presents, presented the process of pure devotional service in an ideal way, in a practical way people can practice in this kind. So if you want to see if your devotional spirit service and you're sure to be able to achieve that if you follow SH teachings to saying that well, there's no other pure devotee specifically Sahing have other God brothers, other Vaishnavas, then we have to judge whether they appear or not. We don't just make a category statement because it's open for anybody to be a pure devoted. They follow the scriptures and they follow. So we're not saying that the problem ever made the kind of statement we're the only way in that sense. But in other sense he said that you're a if you want to be Krishna conscious without practicing Ka following what you're telling one other week following the outside of the Krishna conscious movement and you're loosening. He also said something because practically at that time where was everybody else practicing? But at the same time you don't waste such kind of absolute category statements. Nobody can ever be Krishna conscious. This practically it's more of a practical stun. Theoretically, some of them can. Anybody reads the scriptures theoretically could. But practically they can't unless they have a one sign guru and so many other factors. But otherwise says one can by chanting Hare Krishna they can achieve perfection even without going through all the formal processes of initiation or samskaras. But generally one needs to have. That's just glorifying that the Holy Name is powerful enough that it could deliver somebody say that somebody that overcome was books in Eskimo land somewhere. I don't know somewhere where there's no. They're out in the middle of the Antarctica or something some place where there's no. I don't know where that place is. But they read Prabhupada's books, they follow their instructions, they start chanting. Then there's no reason why they can't get back to Ka also Hare. But say that there is such a place and there's time they can't figure it out. A little confused. Krishna sends them a guru. Krishna sends them someone to help him without a false ego. I don't need anybody. I'll do it on my own. They reject that person and that's considered offensive. So the Holy Name has the power. Whether the person can understand. They're only applying in most cases Krishna sends in hell because although the Holy Name has the power, but you're much safer. It's recommended that one should have a group and sometimes they said well, some of My God brothers, appreciate this one that I want those who are trying to preach principles are absolute. Follow those principles apply. We also apply the principles of gave us. He followed his footsteps. We're going to achieve that results. So anybody is always free to follow the same principles what is happening? So if they do, then also following Prabhupada. In one sense Prabhupada is following the previous practically that you have to see who's actually following the first thing. I've come confidence that properly in the best way. We're trying to convince the other missions and other organizations to come in line with Prabhupada vision. That's the safest way is in authorized way. Some of these empty things you can take out some of these envious against profile various devotees instructors. Usually the first devotees are instructed show you the way, convince you, help you become convinced about practicing Ka conscious there which is called the Vatma Pradasha gurus. Gurus that show the way. Then you get some instruction from different gurus and you see the guru that gives the most instruction. Many six chambers are given instructions instruction gurus they give instruction amongst them. Usually the one that gets the most instruction becomes the Miksha group. It's up to the disciple to decide who they want to take mix of bless their biography. So when they take initiation, one of their seeksha gurus they take initiation and then that person becomes a diction guru. So he takes a commitment to see that the disciple gets back to Ka with a contract accounting. If the disciple does he should practically they have to come and combat again to get the disciple. Or somehow he has to arrange to get the disciple back and that the Diksha guru in a normal traditional circumstances is considered to be the primary guru and other Sikhsha gurus assist him to get the disciple back. There may be some some exceptional circumstances where the Diksha guru authorizes somehow Sikhshe is authorized to be the primary shelter guru. That's like normally just a statutory arrangement as the Dichen guru is considered the primary guru and everybody else helps complications. Now some of our associ we also voluntarily take a very big responsibility. Some take more, some take less to deliver the disciples voluntary. If a Sikhsha guru gives that instruction to a disciple then the disciple follows him because the following they accrue some bad karma or something. The instruction wasn't correct, wasn't a good instruction. The Sikhsha guru is responsible for that. He was able to get reactions. But otherwise if the disciple just in the ordinary course of their daily activities with guide to rape principles or they cruise on bad karmas or something. It's the D who has to take the responsibility. Dikshit ruler's responsibility is trust. But the Dikshad rulers have total responsibility for what's happening with the disciples. That's why Prabhupada said once that if a disciple disobeys the government or breaks the principle, he just considered a guru Juhi because so being a six year guru is less of a karmic implication. But you're still responsible for whatever Sushi is responsible he or she instructs. In some cases the Sushant guru becomes the shelter. Guru functions like an ancient guru. We're not going to go beyond 9:30 as well. Someone may have so many mortifying desires, but each of me have his own place. You know, we don't know what Krishna's plan is. We have another plan. It's like as if Rama was happy to remain in his house or something. But then he was reminded that he had to carry out the order of his guru. So then finally went to America. Or maybe somebody's happy to remain in Vrindavan place. But then they need to go out and preach, spread Christian consciousness. We may have some particular preference what we like to do. But ultimately we want to do what Krishna wants us to do. That's one factor. Other factor is of course in the holy Dhamma. It's a special blessing to get to the holy dh. It's a special blessing to be able to stay in the spirit holy. Some people go on the Dhamma because of offenses they get removed from the Dhamma. Or some people, they have other things they had to do. Maybe they have multiple desires, one of which was bringing them only Dhamma. You see that in perspective with a few layers of other desires that may not have worked out exactly the time period they wanted because of this other. It's pretty complicated trying to ask. Prabhupada wanted to get a building for Krishna in Calcutta. He wanted to get the property in the bomb laid and the secretaries gave that Property back to Mr. Maya. I probably had to go there and do a whole number and hard ball until I got to the property diet. Sometimes we have a desire, but Maya has another desire. Maya maybe also Maya. Maya doesn't want you to be in the home now. So Maya puts up different distractions and makes us go other place and do other things. Some of these activities that are there, just like Krishna says, there's five factors for any action. And our designers is one of the factors. The person Other factors. Maybe somebody wants to go to Mayapur. But at the time they don't have a living money. Sometimes the desire is separated by time. Sometimes it is. It's also a factor that we need a certain amount of sukriti or blessings in order to achieve our desire. It's not just enough that I want something, I deserve it also. If I don't deserve it, at least I get some special mercy. Even though I don't deserve it, somehow I have special mercy. Different factors. So it's not an account I'm drying. See the whole situation. Thank you all very much. See you tomorrow. You'll need a lot of help starting right now to run the archae. There'll be people needed also to start cutting fruits and vegetables. Because I can't mix the cherra dry until everything is cut. The first step is cutting and then it's. We need also some strong people to help wash the chira and move the posh and things like that. It doesn't have to be ladies, but usually it's ladies. Could be who does the decoration of the pots. At the end I do a couple of performer decorations. What it should look like. And then after that our experienced decorators decorate the pots. Decorating means like putting different types of toppings, cookies, vasculars, fruits, flowers, decorations. Then we need some people to cut decorative fruits. Like special palm tree here with a capsicum palm top. And some kinds of serrated tomatoes and lotus shaped mangoes. I was passing through the Bangkok airport and I saw them. They cut a melon with a fine. They had this fine. Now they cut to melon. It looked like it was like a really beautiful kind of a blossoming flower or something. A professional fruit. Decorative cutters. Anybody notice that kind of fruit decoration? They're happy to engage me person. Wonderful decorative cut. Proof for the Lord. If you're not even a professional cutter would be good at artistic stuff. There's a table for that category of person. In South Africa, in Cape Town they came up with some pretty amazing made the man of spiral origins. Spiral effect to skin. It's quite beautiful. Quite interesting. I should have taken this. Sometimes I see people come up with fire out designs. I should have taken digital photos, kept that in the archive. Okay, now I remember. Next time we'll do it. So if anybody has any far idea to make some decorative fruit cuttings and we put them on top of. Okay, thanks a lot. Thank you for watching our videos. Be sure to subscribe to our channel. We publish new videos every day. And don't forget to like and share our channel.