Lava-Mātra: A Moment with Jayapatākā Swami by His Grace Agnideva Dāsa #JayapatakaSwamiArchives

I. Okay. I was born in Trinidad, in Tobago. And I left Trinidad just before my 21st birthday. I was a young man and I came to America, to New York, to join him with my mother. My mother was in America for like five years before. My father had died when I was 14. And maybe two years later, my mother went to America and she left me to stay with my uncle and aunt in Trinidad. But when I. Just couple weeks before my 21st birthday, my mother wrote me a letter telling me I must come to New York. She wanted me to come and be with her at that time. When I got the letter, I didn't want to go. I was not, I was not fascinated about America. Most people want to go to America, but I didn't care. I liked Trinidad. But I read my mother's letter and I could see, I read between the lines and see if she really wants me to come because she's lonely. None of her children are with her and she's lonely. So I thought, okay, I will go just for her. But I don't want to go because at 21, life is just unfolding, it's opening up. And I have friends, you know, involved in different things which I think are important. So I don't want to come to America. But because she wants me to come, I thought, I will go for her. She's lonely. So I came. And I hated it right away. Yes, I hated it right away because when I landed in New York, there was snow on the ground. It was April and it was freezing cold. And my whole life I had lived in Trinidad today, which is kind of like here, tropical. I never seen snow, I never felt cold, I didn't have a coat. I was dressed for the island and I land and it's freezing snow. So immediately I don't like this place. I want to go back, but I. Alright, I'm here. So I stayed. Then few days later, I went to look for a job. I got a job. So I have something to do. And while I'm working on lunch, lunch time. Lunch, you get one hour. I went out in the streets and I saw the devotees, Hare Ka devotees. First time they were chanting and dancing. And I like this sound. I don't know what it means, I never heard it before, but I like the sound. And then they give me a card, invited me come to temple for Sunday feast. They say on the card, Sunday love feast. When I saw love feast, I thought, oh, they must be hippies, because I didn't know what they were. But the word love feast makes me Think they must be hippies, but they're not hippies. And so eventually I went and I went to the temple first day, and one devotee, Brahmachari, he took me in a room and made me sit down. And then he brought me a plate of prasada. He said, this is prasada. And I said, what is prasada? Because I don't know. This is sanctified food. Sanctified food. Food offered to God. And while I'm eating, he's preaching to me. While I'm eating, he's preaching to me. And he's destroying all my misconceptions. All that I thought I knew he was showing me. This is not. That is not. That is not true, that is false, that is ignorant. Everything. But I didn't mind. I just kept eating. And then when I was finished eating, he said he asked me if I want to go outside and do some devotional service. Now, those two words, devotional and service, I never heard them together before. Devotional service. Nobody else says that, right? No one says that. So I asked him, what is devotional service? I don't know. He said to do some service for the ashram, for Krishna. So I thought, well, you fed me, so I will do some service because you fed me. And he took me outside. And there was a big fountain. Big fountain, you know, fountain is right, but it's broken. It's cracked in half. So the fountain cannot hold any water. It's cracked. Big concrete fountain. And then he gives me a pickaxe. Pickaxe is to break. They break stone or concrete. He said, we want to move this fountain from here in the backyard. So we have to break it up into many small pieces. And then we can put it in a wheelbarrow and move it. And we want to plant nice lawn grass. And in the summertime we went to have play. Play is drama, plays outside at the Sunday feast. So I said, okay. So I spent whole afternoon swinging that pickaxe. Breaking, demolish that fountain. I'd never done that before, but I did it. And the devotees, when they passed by and they saw me working so hard, they all said, jai. And I didn't know, what is jai? Later, I understand why they said that. Because they knew that it won't be long. I will be with them. Krishna will pull me in because I am serving very difficult service. So I worked all afternoon swinging that pickaxe. And then in the evening, nine o', clock, they say, oh, six o', clock, he came. And that same devotee, he asked me if I want to go out with the devotees on Sankirtan. And I said, what is that? These are words I never heard before in my life. What is Sankirtan? He said, but we go out in the streets and chant. I said, oh, I don't think so. I refuse. It's okay, I'm not doing it. So all the devotees in the temple go out and they leave me alone back in the temple and you give me a book, Bhagavad Gita to read. They say, you can read this. But within five minutes I started to read. In five minutes I fell asleep because I was tired. I worked so hard and I was tired. So I just fell asleep on the ground. And then the devotees come back from Sankirtan, 9 o'. Clock, and they come back and they are all very blissful. They're ecstatic. So I said, what time is it? He said, oh, it's nine o'. Clock. I said, oh, I have to go home. I just realized I have to go home. I've been here all day. He under the road. He says, no, you don't have to go home. I said, no, I have to go home. He said, no, you don't have to go home. I said, no, I have to go home. He said, no, you don't have to go. I realized he's not going to let me go home. He was persistent. So I thought, okay. I said, lend me the telephone. I have to call my mother. I was living with my mother. So I called my mother and I said, I am not coming home tonight. And she is immediately worried because I am new in America. So she's worried. She says, you're not coming home. Who are you staying with? She wants to know. And I said, oh. I looked at the devotees in front of me and I thought, I cannot tell her who I'm staying with because they are different. So she said, who you stayed with? I said, I'm staying with some friends. And my mother says, you have no friends. You just got here. You have no friends. What friend you talking about? I said, look, I have friends, okay? I have friends. And she's worried. She's in anxiety because it's New York, a big place. So I said, look, I will see you in the morning and when I come, I will explain everything. And she's, that's not good enough for her. She's, she's. Well, she has many questions. I just hang up the phone. I spend the night. Next morning they came to wake me up at 4 o' clock and I couldn't move all My muscles were hurting even here, everywhere, because I'm swinging the pickaxe. That was hard work. It is very hard work. So when they come to wake me at 4 o'. Clock. One, I'm not accustomed to getting up so early. And two, I'm extremely tired and my muscles are hurting. But the devotee was waking me up. He doesn't care. He was like a military. You must get up. And I said, I'm tired. He said, get up. He wouldn't let me sleep. So I realized this guy, he's not going to let me sleep. So I got up and going to shower. There's a long line, long line. They have two showers and 40 Brahmacharis. That means you can only shower for one minute. Yes, to get everybody showered. And time for mongularity is half an hour. You cannot take more than one or two minutes maximum. Okay, I go in the shower. It's only cold water. Ice cold water. Not, you know, no hot water. None. Only cold water. And I thought, how am I going to shower here? Anyway, I did it. I come out and they're. They're like. Everyone's hustling. Everybody's rushing to get downstairs for Mangalati. 4:30. So I made it down and I stayed the whole morning. Mangrati, Tulasi, Aarti. Then Japa, they give me. Somebody give me some beads and tell me, teach me how to chant Japa. So I took the beads and I go and I sit down to chat. But I'm so tired. I'm really tired that I'm falling asleep. And the same devotee who waking me up, he comes and he says, get up, you're sleeping. So they won't let me sleep upstairs. They won't let me sleep downstairs. Anyway, this is how my morning was. Every time I sit down, I don't fall asleep. They wake me up, let me stand up. I got through mourning. Then they had class. 3 months Bhagavatam. And then after that, the then prashadam. So I make up in my mind. I said, I'm going to stay for breakfast and then I'm leaving. I've got to go home and sleep. So I did. But after one week I thought, let me go back and see. I thought they are very. I thought those devotees are very. I thought they are great. They are incredible to live like that, you know, I liked everything. I liked what I heard in philosophy. I like the Sarah. I like the chanting. But I cannot live like them because they are living so austere in those days. There is no bed, nothing. They just sleep on the floor like this. That's how it was. The temple was poor so they have no money to give anybody anything. But yet everybody was happy because they were getting Prabhupada. So they were happy. Even though there was austerity, they didn't mind. Prabhupada was keeping them happy. So I began to come every Sunday for the feast. And I like it. But I know I am not going to join because how they are living, I cannot do that. And my mother, she, when I explained her, she didn't mind although she was Catholic, I was raised as a Catholic. She didn't mind me going to the temple in the morning. Sunday morning I go with her to go to church. And then Sunday afternoon I go to temple for Sunday feast. She didn't mind. But then one Sunday I went to temple and when I arrived the devotees told me, he said, today you are very lucky. Why? He said because Prabhupada is at the airport and he is coming here and he is going to give the sand of his lecture. So I thought, oh, I finally get to see him and hear him. Because then I hadn't seen him and I didn't know who he was, nothing. So Prabhupada came and I sat close. This is beyond sisan. I was sitting right here because I want to hear everything that he said. And I listened very carefully. And Prabhupada was speaking with a sense of urgency. You know this word urgency? Like urgency means no time to waste. So he was preaching to everybody. All the guests, don't waste human life. Now is the time. Take ka consciousness, make your lives perfect. This was the substance of his talk. Urgent, no time to waste. So afterwards when I was going home, I take a bus to go home. All I was thinking of, now I have to join. Previously I think I'm never going to join how they live it. But after hearing Prabhupada speak, I thought now I have to join. And all the excuses I was making before finished, all those excuses went out the window. So it took few months, few months. Then I was ready to join. So join means I have to quit my job. So first person I told I'm going to join is my mother. So I told my mother I'm going to join. She starts crying. She's crying like anything. She's like uncontrollable crying. And my younger brother and younger sister, they also come from Trinidad. They were there too. And my younger sister, she's crying too. Why are you all crying. This is no reason to cry. But they. Now listen to me. They are crying. So I told my mother I got an idea and I said, ma. She called her ma. I said, you are crying at the wrong time. I said, you are crying, but it's the wrong time. So she stopped crying for a minute. She said, what do you mean? I said, before I met the devotees, I was doing all kinds of nonsense, right? I was doing drinking, smoking, whatever. That's what all young people were doing. So I said, before I met Dori, I was doing all nonsense. And I said, you know I was doing nonsense, right? She said, yes, I know you were doing nonsense. I said, but you never cry. You never cry. You see me doing nonsense and you never cry. Now I'm getting. I'm straight. I'm getting everything right. I'm cleaning up my life. Now you're crying. I said, you're crying at the wrong time. And she could not argue with that logic. She stopped crying. So I came and I, you know, and everybody, I told all my friends, everybody that I know, I had some cousins from Trinidad, they also living in New York. I tell them, everybody out, everybody. I told no one thought what I am going to do is a good idea. No. Not even one person said, that sounds like a good idea. No. Everyone says, don't do it, don't do it. And I say, why? They have no good reason. They just say, don't do it, but no good reason. So I said, well, you cannot give me a good reason why not to do it. I'm going to do it. So I joined. I joined. And that was in 1972 or 73, right? At that time. So I embraced life as a devotee. And Prabhupada came again, I think maybe 73. Prabhupada. When I moved in, Prabhupada came, but I was not initiated yet when he came. And it was so wonderful, you know, when Prabhupada came to a temple, everybody gets lifted. He lifts you up, everybody, because of his purity. So I. My life was wonderful. No anxiety. And I think that time when Prabhupada came, after I was in Itaku, I don't think I was initiated. Maybe I was, maybe I wasn't. I can't remember so long ago, but I was already chanting. I was already leading kirtan. I took that up. And when Prabhupada was coming, the president, he made announcements. Prophet's coming today at this time. And everybody is going to the airport to greet Prabhupada. They go to the airport. And then afterwards he called me and he says actually everybody is going but not you. And I was what do you mean? That we need somebody to stay behind to guard the temple and you have to stay and do that. So I was like, I don't like this. I want to go. Like everybody want to go. But he tells me I have to stay here. I was horrified. It was a difficult dilemma because I really want to go. But he says I have to stay anyway, I surrendered, I stayed and everybody went to airport. Then went. Prabhupada arrived. Prabhupada's car. His car would come, meet by the side and Prabhupada walks in. He walks in alone. He had maybe two sanyasis in his car, his servant and the temple president. But those two sannyasis servant and the president, the president took them to the pujari room and they opened the door for Prabhupada to come in the temple. So Prabhupada come in the temple room alone. And I need this walking child in Japan. When I saw him, I immediately fall on a pay obeisances. Then the president, the two sannyasis servants, they come with. They want to do a ceremony to wash Prabhupada's feet and do aarti and put a garland on. They want to do all this little ceremony. Guru Pujra. So all four of them come. Somebody has a pitcher with water in a basin, a bowl, somebody has a towel. Somebody is going to start the heartache, you know, and somebody is maybe waving a fan or something. So as they are doing this, I am standing up watching because this is the first time I have seen this ceremony. So I am standing watching. It's new. I'm curious. But the president looked back and looked at me and he said, chant like don't just stand there, do something, chant. I said, okay. So I went and I got in mganga and I began to chant for Prabhupada. Small just, you know. So I sing in Sri Guru Charana Padma and I'm looking at Prabhupada and Prabhupada is looking at me. And when I'm singing, he's responding. Every line, you know, every line I sing. He responded, but the other men, they are absorbed in what they're doing. Maybe they're chanting too, but I can't see their face. So when we got to the end of the song, last verse, haha pro kora, they got to that Lazarus. Suddenly you could hear outside the temple building all motor cars screeching brakes. Cars stop, doors open and doors slamming. All the devotees arrive. They come 10 minutes after, and they come running into the Templar Room and they shock to see, probably sitting there and just finishing aktik and I'm singing. And then they all joined. They come and they joined me in the kirtan and we had a big kirtan for Prabhupada. That was the first time.

Wonderful.

So that was a really special time. And I learned that because I thought I really wanted to go to the airport. And I even thought, maybe I will. Maybe I will run away and go. I thought maybe I will run away and forget about that and go and get in the car, one of the cars and go. But if I had done that, I would not have gotten the opportunity to do this to Chandra Prabhupada. Because I was giving up. I was giving up my duty, what I was supposed to do. So I learned that it's important to do your duty, you know. So Prabhupada came. I think after that I stayed in New York temple for two years and then I moved to Los Angeles temple. Because in New York during the winter, it was very difficult for me. Very cold. I mean, really cold. If you live all your life in the tropics and you go there, it's hell. So what I tolerated, tolerated. And then I thought, maybe better if I go to California. It's warmer climate. So I went to Los Angeles and it was very nice. But I mean, any time Prabhupada visits is wonderful. It's wonderful. And it makes up for all the other troubles. The troubles become insignificant. This, you know.

So if you want, you can tell any other making Usila Prabhupada and also your initiation. How was my interview with Prabhupada for the initiation and second initiation?

Okay. When I got first initiation, Prabhupada was not present.

Was not.

He was not in New York. He was somewhere else. He was traveling around the world. But he sent a letter. He sent a letter saying he accepted a group of devotees as his disciples with their names. And one Sannyasi was present, was there in New York. His name was Rupa Nuga. So he was there and he spoke. He spoke and he told us what our name is. He said properties accepted you. This is the new name, Agni Devi. And it was a happy day, happy day to know that he has accepted you as his disciple. Even though he wasn't physically present, he was happy just to know. Yeah. So then maybe one year later, or something. One year later, Prabhupada, the president in New York temple announced that Prabhupada is going to is going to Philadelphia, that we have temple there. Prabhupada is going there for Rathi Yatra. Now Philadelphia is not very far from New York. Maybe two hours on the east coast. All the states are closed. You can drive to all so many in two, three hours you're there. So the president announced prophets coming to Philadelphia for Rathi Yatra. And then he said, and so everybody is going to Philadelphia in cars. Everybody is going, yes. And then he called me and he said, everybody is going, but you are not going. You, it's me and one other boy. We are not going to pinhead Ashwin. So real life, why is he doing this? Why is he punishing us? We want to go. Of course everybody wants to go. Prabhupada is going to be at Rathi Yatra. You want to be there? He said, somebody has to stay back. One lady, she was head pujari, I think her name was Shailavati. She was older lady, but she was the head puja. She was not going. So he said he needed two people to stay, right? One to assist. The pujari means to bring the plates, take the plates, transfer, wash the plates. You know, all that and one person me to cook. So he said, so you have to steam back. He said, but the Rathiyatri is on Sunday. So everybody's leaving early Sunday morning or, you know, or Saturday evening they're going. He said, but Monday morning they will start coming back early. He said, and the first car we'll come back, we'll reach back at the temple at 4 o', clock, 5 o', clock, something like that. And he said, when that car comes back, you too will get in that car and go back, drive to Philadelphia Monday. But we'll miss the Rathi Yara. He says, but on Monday Prabhupada is going to give second initiation and you two will go and get initiated. Seconds. So we went to. That means got in the car. As soon as they come, we drive and we got there just in time. Prabhupada was greeting the deities. You know, the curtains open. We. And then he sits down to give class. So Prabhupada is given class. And something happened during the beginning of the class. At that time, the class, Prabhupada was going to speak on from the 6th Cantu with Ajameel 6 Cantu. But that book wasn't published yet. Prabhupada was translating that cantu. So his servant, one of his servants had the manuscript because Prabhupada was working on it. Prabhupada translates in the middle of the night. And the servant take the tape and listen to it and transcribe it, type out everything, word for word, what Prabhupada said. So those transcripts he had. And so Prabhupada told him to write one verse on a chalkboard, on a blackboard so that everybody in the temple, we can chant and respond and follow, you know, many devotees, some men and then some women. And then when enough people had chanted, Papa 27 now see the translation. So he goes to read the translation from the manuscript. And he said, he's reading it, he said, and it writes, it's depart, depart. Where he's reading about in the Bhagavatam is when the Yamadutra is coming for a jamin, right? They are coming and they are looking very horrible. So when Ajamil Sidi Yamudutta, he said, when Ajamiya saw these horrible creatures, he became afraid and he cried out for his son. He said, narayana, Narayana, Narayana. So we, of course, we are here, everybody else, we are hearing this for the first time because it's not in a book form yet. This is the beginning. So as he said that Narayan, Narayan, Narayan, we all thought, okay, but then Prabhupada took the microphone and he said he asked a question. He is asking the servant who read the translation, who transcribed the tapes. Prabhupada is asking him, he said, did I say three times? Narayan, Narayanai Narayana, did I say three times? And we are all wondering what is proper talking about. He's asking a question, but we don't know what is this about. Did I say three times? And the servant, he's sitting there, he's not answering, he's not saying anything. So Prabhupada asks it again, did I say three times? And the boy still said, not saying anything. His head is bowed, but he's silent. Then we realize something is wrong. Something is wrong here. We don't know what something is wrong. And then Prabhupada leaned back on his vyasa and you could see his thinking because he transcribed. He translated this just during the night. So he knows what he said and that's not what he said. So he think. And then he leaned for. He said, this is the third time. Now he says, I did not say three times. He said just Narayan, Narayan, Narayan. He said, I did not Say that I do know the boy, the servant. He confessed. He said. He said, no, Prabhupada, you did not say three times. So now we understood he had changed what Prabhupada wrote, and Prabhupada caught it. So then Prabhupada, he sat for half a minute and he said. And he looks in. He looks at everybody in the temple room. And he said, why three times? He's asking us why three times. And then he said, once is sufficient. And did like this, once is sufficient. When he said that the whole temple room, everybody went haribo, because it was so powerful. He knows the glories of the Holy Name. Once is sufficient. And then he turned to the servant and very gently, very compassionately, he just said, don't change anything that I say. That's it. He could have been heavy with him, but he wasn't. And if he was heavy with him, that boy would have. He would have melt in the floor. He would have melted to the ground because it would have been public humiliation. But Prabhupada didn't do that. He just said, don't, don't change anything. That was the end of it. And then Prabhupada went on to give Rmad Bhagavatam. Class speaking of. And the whole class is speaking about the glories of the Holy Name. Especially in that sixth canto. But with a Jamil, there is lots of nectar of the Holy name. There was a good example. But you know the story of Jami. He was very sinful. But at the end of his life, he chanted the Nin Narayan. And when he chanted Ni Narayan, he was chanting. He was chanting for his son. But then he remembered. He remembered the real Narayan. First he chanted his son. But by doing so he remembered and real Narayan heard him and immediately sent the Vishnu duttas. And they came and stopped the Amadutas. They said, you cannot touch this man. And there was big discussion because Yamaduja said, this man is very sinful. He's very sinful. We know all the sins he has done. Everything is recorded. And who are you telling the Vishnu Duta? Why are you stopping us? This man is sinful. Our master Yamaraj, he told us to come and get this man. They said, no, no, no. He has chanted the name of our master, not I. Therefore you cannot touch him. So after class we went and we got second initiation in Prabhupada. But that little episode, that little event was very instructive. We remember it.

Any other Episode personally with Srila Prabhupada.

Yes. I was still in New York temple for that one. But when I was in Los Angeles this time, Prophet was coming again. Coming to the temple from somewhere. This time the temple president told me, he's different. Temple president, he's different from the New York president. This one, he said, I want you to lead the kirtan when Prabhupada's coming to greet Prabhu. I was so happy. I was afraid he might tell me to stay back also. So I was happy to do that service. It's a service. And at the airport I was. Before Prabhupada came through the gates, I was thinking, what melody? What melody should I chant Hare Krishna to that would please? So I was thinking how to please Srila Prabhupada and thinking about it like that. This is before he came out. I remembered one devotee had told me that one of the melodies we used to sing in those days there were only few melodies, maybe half a dozen melodies. And everybody around the world used to sing those melodies, right? And I remember some devotee told me that one of those melodies we used to sing, they told me in New York that Prabhupada said that this melody was his Guru Maharaj. One of his Guru Mah favorite melody, Bhakti Siddhanta says that like this melody. So I remember that. And I thought, but I never heard anybody say, what is Prabhupada's favorite melody? Never heard that. But I thought, if this is one melody, is one of Bhakti's Siddhanta's favorite, then I will sing that. And Prabhupada would like that. So I decided that's what I'm going to sing. Then when Prabhupada came out through the door, there must have been a couple hundred devotees waiting for him because from Los Angeles, Los Angeles was the headquarters. They had four or 500 devotees and there was at least 200 out at the airport. Big crowd, right? And then Roberts coming. As soon as he come out, I start kirtan. So first I sing his Pranav mantra Mo Bishop Namaste Sri Krishna chaitan. By the time I see him. So when I finish handing Sri Krishna Chaitanya Prabhupada is like right where you are coming up to ask me. Because we were two lines and he coming down the middle. So he's right there. Just as everyone's finished singing Sri Krishna chaitun Pravinditanamda Panchatakva mantra. And he Passed me and I start singing the Hare Krishna mantra to that melody. That tune that's supposed to be book Sri Lankans. Like he likes this one. So I start with that and Prabhupada got like this far, you know, pass me. So when it passed, you know, we turn and. And we all got behind him because he's coming and we got behind and everybody's fallen behind and he's going out and he's halfway through the melody. Like the first part. Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare. That's half. And then Hare Rama. That's the second half. I got the first half singing. Prabhupada stopped walking. He has a cane. He stopped walking and he turned around and he looked at me. He had a big smile on his face. He did his head like this. Come on. And he turned back around and everybody was O. Those who saw it, they jumped up in the air and said hareem. Because they knew that Prabhupada was pleased, you know. And I know he is very pleased. So when I chant, it's for his pleasure. I do not chant for name and fame, but fame comes. But that's not why I was chanting. But some fame come and I became famous, you know, everywhere I go, people like here, everybody tell, oh, we were listening to you from so long ago. So that is Prabhupada's blessing on me. And still to this day I chant for his pleasure. So I think maybe one more time. Last visit to Los Angeles he went into. He was invited to go to Golden Avatar. Golden Avatar Studios. One devotee had made professional recording studio as business. He was going to record people.

You can continue.

I can't talk. If no one. No, if no one is, then I'll stop. I'm not. I'm not an impersonalist. So anyway, he came to LA and he was invited to go to Golden Avatar Studios for. To inspect the recording studio. And when I heard he's going there, then I thought I'm going the owner. And that was the first time I got to see Prabhupada. Anyway, that was the first time I got to see Prabhupada sing and play harmony. And then the rewinded tape and then he played Madanga to accompany himself put the headphones and he played. Seeing him do that, I thought he was expert. Expert because he accompanied himself and in Madanga so perfectly and played harmonium like nobody else. And of course his singing was special. So I experienced that in Los Angeles. That was Prabhupada's last visit to Los Angeles. That's about the only times that I got to be close to Prabhupada.

You would like to sing the melody that Srila Prabhupada Vajray, please.

I knew you would ask that. Whenever I tell this story, they always want to know what is that melody? Tell me if you know it. Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hari, Hari Ram. You know this one?

Yes, I do think that.

Yeah, this was one of the first few melodies in the world is new. And when I started singing that, Prabhupada turned around and was like really pleased. I still sing that melody sometimes because now I know so many more. Going to India Naipur, I learned so many more melodies. But this was a simple one. And he was happy with that.

So now if you have any memory about your bad breath.

You would like.

To share with us.

Not much. I remember him after the Prabhupada left. So maybe 78, 79, somewhere around. It was close. And he was one of the 11 gurus. At that time I was in Laguna Beach. I came from New York to Los Angeles. And the GBC man in Los Angeles sent me to Laguna beach to be president. So I was president in Laguna beach because it's only one hour from Los Angeles. Laguna beach is right in the middle. One hour this way is Los Angeles, one hour that way is San Diego. Laguna beach is right in the middle. So I used to go up there frequently and go to San Diego also. So one day I was in LA just for the day, and Jaipur Thar Maharaj came. So we stayed to hear him give a talk. And in the evening, and maybe it was morning, I can't remember. But anyway, he spoke. And I was very attracted to how he spoke because he spoke about Go Leela, Shaitanya, Leela like nobody else. None of the other gurus spoke about Lord Chaitanya like he did. He was. He knew. He knew many pastimes of Lord, Lord Satan did you know? So I was attracted to that because in Laguna beach we had. I had gotten a church for the new temple. A church, big church. And for the Oakman we installed Pancha Tattva. If you bring this, I'll show you my iPad. Yeah. Yes. Very beautiful. And so they are my worshipable deities. What you call Ishta Devata Panchata. And then when Jada Rangmar came to Los Angeles and he was speaking the Pastland, which is an Irish. So happy. So afterwards I went up to him and invited him to come to Laguna Beach. And of course we only had a few devotees, maybe 12 devotees. And Los Angeles had almost 500. So everybody, all the gurus, sannyasis, they all go there. Nobody was coming here to Laguna beach because we are small. It's like South America. Not many people come, right? They decide where they're going to go. But I invited him and he said okay. And he said I think that time he told us that his mother lives in the area near the Laguna beach temple. So I can't remember if he gave us her number. Maybe he gave us her number and I sent my wife to go pick her up and bring her. I can't remember, it's so long ago. But I know my wife went and brain her because he was coming and I thought he would be happy. So he was happy to see his mom. Mother. That was the first time. And I think he came one more time. Like I said, I enjoyed his company. I enjoyed his Katha especially because he was. He spoke with passion about Lord Chetan Nithananda. He knew the pastimes of Lord Gorangal. He knew pastimes that nobody else knew. So I was happy about that. I liked that. Of course over the years sometimes I go to Mayapur. I see him. But we didn't talk. But I've always. Oh, there was one more incident one time. One time I went did the roadies in New Orleans. New Orleans in America. They invited me to one day. You come for a theatre. They flew me there to come to. And at the same time Jaipa Dhakuma coming for Rathiyatra. And the evening, evening before the Rathiyatra say Rathiyacha is tomorrow morning. Tonight we all went on Harinan Sankirtan in the town, you know. And Jack Raimar went with us. I remember he was playing in those days. He used to play these big wampas. They were like huge. So loud. If you're standing near to him, it's like you wonder if your ears are going to hold up. But anyway, he came out and he went on Harinam. I was leaving Kirtan and when we went in this area, I think they call it the French Quarter. They have a name for that part of New Orleans. Famous night. And people are walking around in this. No cars in the street but people are walking around all big mug with beer. They're drinking in the streets, you know. And then the sidewalk, everybody's drinking. And so as the Harinam body comes down the street, some of the people, oh, how they dance. And they joined the party and we were thinking oh, this is nice. But then they went behind us and somebody poured one glass of beer on my head. You know, you suddenly feel this cold liquid and you roll down your face over your mouth and you can taste the beer. And they did the same thing with Maharaj, you know, the poor beer. And he looked at me and he said, I think we should go back now. So we turned around and went back. That was the end of the harinam, because we would be smelling wet with beer on our clothes. And we went back to the temple. And next morning we had a nice rathayatra and he was there. That's the only other time that's in New Orleans. I think he used to go there often. Maybe once a year or something. He come from India. So he had. I think even today maybe he still goes there. Because one God brother of mine told me there are many Bengalis living in New Orleans. Bengali, they're all driving taxi to make money. So they probably came, you know, but now they're caught up trying to make money. So maybe he still comes. I don't know. But there's lots of Bengalis living there in New Orleans.

Yeah. Well, could you tell us maybe how you saw his Lenejeva Takaswamy dealing with his God brothers and God sister.

With.

You, with other God brothers? How is his dealings?

Well, I remember once in Mayapur, that's not too long ago. I was there for gurt, for Kirtan Mila. And after the kirtan miller, one night they told us to come. And upstairs in a building there was a big feast. Jayapatak Maharaj had arranged it. He had ordered them to make a big feast. And so all the kutaneers, we were invited to go up there and take prasadam. And when we went up, they had garlands for everybody. It was very nice. That's the only thing I remember with him, how he didn't have to do that, but he made that arrangement and it was nice. We appreciate that.

And last question is how? You see, he's following Srila Prabhupada Durgumara's orders or instructions.

Well, he is definitely preaching. I hear all of his preaching. I think he has the most disciples in the movement, all the other gurus. And so I know, you know, I don't doubt that. I have no doubts that he's trying to please Srila Prabhupada pushing on the movement. I mean, he's been in Mayapur for years from even when Prabhupada was here, he was there. Him and Babananda were the two Sannyasis that were there, the development of Mayapur from the beginning. So. So I have all respect for him. I mean, ISKCON went through some turbulent times, you know, troublesome times. After Prabhupada left, maybe a few years after. And he's remained steady, fixed in his service when we saw others fell down and left. But he stayed in my stay and did his service. So that's. Well, you know, it was a difficult time during that time for everyone because when Prabhupada left, everyone wanted to follow and cooperate with the leaders. But then when the troubles began, then so many, many of my God brothers, many of his God brothers, so many of them left. They left in like Exodus, Exodus, you know, they left in big bulk, large amounts. And watching that happen was bewildering to me. It was disturbing to my mind why didn't understand. But anyway, movement is still strong and still going forward, but without many of Prabhupada's disciples. Unfortunately, that is unfortunate and there are many, many different opinions about that. But I know that that was a bewildering time in iskcon. See so many people leaving, people who were trained up and capable of doing nice service in the movement, they left. It was really. And I know Prabhupada wasn't happy about that. So many, they were good devotees, they were not bad devotees. So many of them. And things are much better now and everything. But those voyages, they don't come back. They don't come back, build up, they don't come back. So as I said, that was a difficult time for me. It was bewildering time. I didn't understand, but I wasn't going to leave. I wasn't going to give it up. It was. How do I say it? My faith in Srila Prabhupada was firm. I never lost faith in Srila Prabhupada. I didn't lose faith in the process of Ka consciousness that he had given. But I think faith in the leadership that was damaged. That is my honest assessment. My faith in the leaders that was damaged. In other words, before I would follow them blindly, I would follow the Nirs blindly. I had faith in them. And when they started falling down one by one, then that faith in them was damaged. But faith in Prabhupada was still in Tatt. Faith in Krishna consciousness, faith in the devotees, that was all still good. It was like a test, you know.

Thank you very much.

Angel.