Contracts Every Business Owner Needs to Sleep Well at Night with Danielle Stead Blanton

They're hoping that by cutting the cost of illegal, they can maybe what, save a couple hundred dollars here and then, and then do what with it? Invest it to, to a photo shoot or to a new software or whatever. But they're cutting corners where we don't want to cut corners. And they're using template legal agreements for the basis of their business when that should really be the strongest part. It's like building a house. Would you want your foundation to be built of really strong wooden concrete, or do you want your foundation to be built of like old newspaper trimmings? And, and I think when you think about it that way, you're like, well, shoot, like it's pretty obvious.

What is keeping you from growing your business to the next level. I'm Jess Burgio, one of the hosts here for Fast Foundations, the podcast. Between the three of us, my co host Jim RT and I have grown several businesses scaling beyond seven figures. And you know what? Not a single one of those businesses came with a blueprint. For years, we poured time and resources into our businesses from salons, tech companies and product based businesses, navigating success and failures on our own. For all of us, though, it began to change in 2019 when we found a community of like minded entrepreneurs and industry leaders to mentor us. That community was Fast Foundations. Just like the mastermind, we're bringing on experts and having discussions to give you tips to not only improve the foundational skill sets you need, but to also fast track your growth. We'll dive into the core pillars of what will make your business succeed. Whether you have a brand new idea that you're looking to turn into a business, or you're already a successful entrepreneur looking to scale, this community is here to take you to the next level. Let's dive in.

Welcome to the Fast Foundations podcast. This is RT Custer coming at you with another mentor session. Today. I have Danielle Stead Blanton on the call with me. Danielle, I want to hop right in. You said top of mind is that a lot of people, a lot of entrepreneurs are maybe a little afraid of the cost to properly protect themselves and they don't even like realize that they can get contracts and protect themselves legally in their business for not a whole lot of money and also just how valuable and necessary that is. And obviously I have direct experience in that. So please, like, what are your thoughts on that? Why are you so passionate about that subject?

Oh my gosh. Well, I have a personal story too about having a contract that was well written that allowed me to get out of something, a bad business deal. But as an attorney and as a business owner who has been doing both for over a decade now, I can tell you that there is no such thing thing is a one size fits all approach. And I think a lot of business owners these days are looking not just at the legal zooms or the rocket lawyers, but they're looking at these smaller coaching businesses, and I don't say smaller to be diminutive, who offer template legal. And they're hoping that by cutting the cost of illegal, they can maybe what, save a couple hundred dollars here and then. And then do what with it? Invest it to. To a photo shoot or to a new software or whatever. But they're cutting corners where we don't want to cut corners, and they're using template legal agreements for the basis of their business when that should really be the strongest part. It's like building a house. Would you want your foundation to be built of really strong wooden concrete, or do you want your foundation to be built of, like, old newspaper trimmings? And. And I think when you think about it that way, you're like, well, shoot, like, it's pretty obvious. But watching how the entrepreneurial business world has shifted in the past few years, this has been an afterthought for so many people. And instead I've seen firsthand how those who have put it at the front of mind of building their business have been more successful. They have better relationships, they have better, clearer boundaries. And the people who haven't are coming to me to clean up messes that are costing them five times what it would have cost them to do it right. And, you know, it's always cheaper and less energy and less stress to just do it right the first time than to clean up a mess. And I also am saying this because last night we accidentally flooded our kitchen because we put in our refrigerator filter the wrong way because we were lazy and we spent all night cleaning up that mess.

Yep. Yep. Well, it's some. Sometimes it's do as I say, not as I do. Right. And all of these things as. And that's just entrepreneurship, I feel like. But. But I have a million questions before I dive into that, though. Tell us more about your background. Why are you so passionate about this? You know, how did you get into law? And why did you choose this. This focus for your entrepreneurial journey?

Yeah, that's a great question. Thank you. So I, I always like to preface this story with I come from a family of achievers. And so I think when you, when you feel like you have family expectation on you. You do the path that you think you're supposed to. So. So I was a collegiate athlete. I was a Division 1 National Championship water polo player. I was president of my sorority. I did all the right things. And I graduated college in 2008, which, as we all know is one of the worst recessions in history. And I didn't know what to do. Not a great time to graduate college with a degree in sociology. It was terrible. Yeah. Very marketable. And my parents are doctors, they're successful doctors. And they said, you don't want to be a doctor, go to law school. You're smart, you could do it. So I took the lsat, surprised myself, got into a top law school, surprised myself. And it was just this very, oh, okay, this is what you're going to do with your life. Went to law school, secured like really prestigious fellowships, got a great job. Upon graduating, passed the California state bar on the first try. It's the hardest bar in the country. So to me it was just kind of like, you're on this path of life. And I ended up practicing in big law, which is, you know, no offense to anyone who enjoyed it or had a good experience. I personally did not. It was soul sucking. It's as bad as everyone says it was. But I did my time and I didn't have time to realize that, that this was not for me. And it was not for me for a lot of reasons. And ethically, it wasn't for me, morally, it wasn't for me. Gender equality wise, it was not for me. And I at the time met a really wonderful man who, who we were just dating. And he said, I love you and spend my life with you, but this version of you is really miserable. So like, let's go find out what makes you happy. Go get happy. And so I quit my job, Eat, Pray, loved it. And I ended up back in fitness. I had nothing else to do all day. Right. What do you do when you're unemployed? You go to the gym all day, spend a lot of time there and.

Hopefully, I mean, that's, that's what I hope most unemployed people are doing. I don't know. I ask that question all the time.

Right.

I'm sorry.

Continue eating bon bons on the couch all day. I thankfully went on the other side of that spectrum.

Sounds like you did the right thing. For sure.

I hope so. Yeah. But I was at a really cool high end brand called Equinox and they were like, hey, you're pretty energetic and you're athletic. Do you ever want to teach fitness? And they hired me on the spot. They trained me how to teach group fitness classes. And, you know, being an athlete and being somebody who is really educational in their nature, I was like, this is the best job ever. Until I realized you get paid 25 a class. And, like, how do you go from making this, like, really high end attorney salary to making $25 an hour? So I started slinging myself in the Los Angeles fitness scene as a, like, hey, I'm this great instructor. I can also help you make your business better. And I don't know if you know anything about gym owners. Gym owners don't tend to like to be told that their business sucks.

No, but it's. But it's. It's fascinating, though, because I'm listening to $100 million offers by Alex Hermosi right now. And, you know, he talks about, you know, gym launch and all the turnarounds that he does, and he talks about the same thing. It's. That whole world is so fascinating to me. So continue. Sorry.

Yeah, no, it is fascinating. And this is, you know, the time that Equinox became the Equinox group, that Soul Cycle has, you know, become public that we're putting PE money into fitness. Nobody has heard of that before. And so suddenly you have in this Los Angeles fitness scene, which is a scene, you have an attorney who has, you know, a decade of law experience saying, I know how to run a business. I was a corporate attorney, so I ran Fortune 500 companies from the outside in. And so to come to these businesses and say, just, do you know what's making Rumble successful Is X, Y and Z. You're a mom and pop studio. Do you want to be as successful? Let me teach you how. And so I'm gonna be honest with you. It was a really hard struggle because people don't like to be told their business isn't great. But eventually people started to talk about, there's this person in Los Angeles who can help you make your business better. She can teach you all about your financials and rates and contracts and what are the laws. And California actually has very strict laws as it relates to fitness and health clubs. So that naturally picked up. And as Covid hit, it became not just, what are the rules for being a fitness business? It was wellness businesses. It was the aesthetics industry, it was the creative industry. And what I did really transformed into. I was not just this fitness instructor on the microphone. I was running your business on the back end, or I was teaching you how to put systems together to run it on the back end. I was putting together legal. I was showing you that legal is actually the end game of good systems and good financials and good customer journeys, all put into agreements and all put into a nice little bow at the end of the rainbow. And it became this really amazing organic growth that's now allowed me to work with thousands of business owners in, you know, the EU and Australia and Asia and Canada and just everywhere around the world, because people are realizing I might be, quote, unquote, just a small business, but I can be a badass business and I can be very profitable. I can make as much money doing whatever I want. I just know I need to know how to do it. And so that's what's led me to you guys, and that's what's led me to get to be on this podcast with you.

And that's. And that's awesome. And we're so grateful to have you. When you think about, like, who you're trying to serve and all the people that you have served and that kind of, like, vast, but also still, you know, piece together a few different niches, experience, how do you describe yourself and the services that you offer? You know, I'm thinking, like, your, your Instagram bio, like your, your executive summary. Like, law is so vast and there's so many different sides of it. Do you approach it from the, from the wellness angle and focus on those, those business owners still? Or, like, how do you describe who you are and what you do to your potential audience here?

Yeah, I like to tell people I help you sleep better at night. I like to say I work with small business owners that have big dreams, sleep better at night, run better businesses, make more money, make their clients happier. I think that's what it really comes down to. I think that what legal is, is, like I said, it is the end game of putting together systems in place. What happens when you don't have systems? It's a headache. What happens when you don't know your finances? You're stressed out. What. You know, what is being a business owner inherently? I think for most of us at any stage in business, it's being stressed out and not knowing what's going on. And it's giving people that ability to have that sense of relief and then put into their zone of genius. And their zone of genius is to be the best podcast host, it's to be the best studio owner, it's to be the best beauty consultant, it's not to be the best business owner. And so I like to say that is my job, to be the best business owner for you so that you can go out there and have the business of your dreams. Small business owners are the bravest souls you'll ever meet. They're the people that say no thank you to a nine to five, A secure job, a retirement, a pension, health care. Right? Like, they are risk takers. And if you can support risk takers to build the businesses that are, to me, the foundation of this whole economy and country, that's cool. Like, that's a really great way to end your day.

100%. And I'm glad you brought up the financial side of not sleeping at night, because I feel like as a small business owner, as an entrepreneur, there's really two major things that prevent me from sleeping, and it's finance right now. Finance first. Just making sure that everyone gets paid, especially around the holidays. You can't miss a payroll this time of year. People do not forgive it, period. But especially right now. And then legal stuff. If you just, like, liabilities in general. I mean, I just. You know, I bought this building recently and real realized the first time it snowed, I was like, I don't have. I don't have floor mats. I don't have anywhere for someone to, like. You know, And. And Bella came. Came into the office the other day, and. And. And I was just, like. I texted her before she got here. I was like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. Be so careful. I don't have a place for you to, like, wipe your scary feet. So let me know when you get here, and I'll, like, help, you know, and. And so problem solved. You know, I. I figured that out, went to Costco, got some mats. But, like, in the back of my head, there's always those little things like, okay, somebody's gonna slip the ball. Somebody's gonna sue me. When I think of finances, it's really easy for me to be like, okay, the things that are stressing me out are basically all about knowing your numbers, right? They have to.

You.

You say you have to know your numbers, your P and L, your balance sheet. What are, like, the. What's the P and L and the balance sheet on the legal side, what are, like, the couple things that every business owner really needs in order to help them sleep at night?

Yeah, great question. I think the first thing is what you just talked about is liability. We all have it in our business, but we don't really know even what liability means, and we don't know where to look, and as I was explaining to your awesome group, in your mastermind is like the best way I explain, liability is like. Liability is like predators in the jungle. Like, you know that they're there. And maybe if you do your research, you'll know to, you know, do I need bear repellent or do I need to watch out for a stream that's going to like, sweep me aside and it's knowing, you know, it's kind of like. It's like Los Angeles traffic. Which car do I have to watch out for? Am I going to miss the red light? Like, you just, you need to be.

Aware there's also a lot of lanes there. You know, there's like eight lanes on just one side. What's going on?

I know the GPS on my car is like being the third lane from the right. And I was like, I can't even tell you what, what that means.

Not driving.

One, two, three. But no, I think the biggest thing for business owners is having the foresight to know what to look out for. And so in every industry and every company is going to be something different. You know, for you, it's like watches, it's design, it's patent, it's technology. For me, I'm, you know, coaching business owners. What if I give someone bad advice? For somebody who has a, you know, a breathwork business, it's the effects of, you know, the physicality of what you're doing. So if you don't even know what to look at, what red flags to look out for, that's your red flag. If you go into your business and you're just like, oh, I'm just a cake maker. I have nothing to worry about, no girlfriend, you could give someone food poisoning. You could be using bad products. You could, you know, there's a whole list of things. And this is not to say that we should live ever in that, like, pessimist. I don't want to be a human rain cloud of your business. I'm just such a planner that I want you to know, what is a pothole that you could trip in? Here's how you don't trip in the pothole. I think if we all say it like that, like, hey, you're driving on this major road to work, there's going to be three big potholes. Do you want to know about them? I think everyone would say yes. I absolutely want to. So if I say, okay, now you're going to start a business, there's three major potholes. Do you want to know about them? I think Most of us would then, like, be like a light bulb. Like, oh, yeah, that's no shit. Like, I want to learn about that. So I think as it relates to, like, our, you know, the P and L example that you gave, it's what do you need to worry about? And. And that's like the biggest thing. And then the second thing is, okay, now that you know, I always say it's not enough to know, like, what are you doing about it? Because if you know and you do nothing, it to me is worse that you sat on that information. So whether it's, you know, putting a contract in place to make sure that your personnel are really clear on their business expectations, whether it's having liability insurance for a business, because let's say you actually own a brick and mortar business, and there is the issue that you could have trip and falls or earthquakes or fires or whatever that may be. It's what's the pothole? And then how do we avoid the pothole? And once you can just put that focus into those two things, and I know telling people to, hey, I need you to focus on what could go wrong is like the last thing we want to do. Eat the frog. Do it. Do it once, be done.

Yep. Yeah. And for me, it's. It's always been like you said, I think a few minutes ago, I'm just a risk taker. I don't stress about those things. I try not to think about what could go wrong. Because when you think about it from that side, it's demoralizing. Demoralizing. It's. It's demoralizing. Um, it. It's just negative. And the problem with that is if you never think about it, it's like the unknown. And going back to the financial example, for me, the stress from finances as a business owner is when, I don't know, it's the unknown that's stressful. If I know that I have a certain Runway, even if I'm like, oh, we're running out of money, like, that's not good. But if I know the date, I'm going to run out. If I don't make some of these sales or I don't get some funding, then I can take action around it, and I'm not afraid of it. And so I would say, just to back up the point that you just made, thinking about that stuff and what could go wrong, just for a minute at least puts that in your head so that you're aware of what could go wrong. And then you can have the conversation of how Do I protect myself? How do I solve that? So for like let's give a couple examples around the wellness businesses that you started out helping and maybe like if you have any more recent examples of a, a non wellness business that you've worked with recently, like what's like the, the, the one thing that, that you've done for someone that they've really like they didn't even know they needed and hopefully is going to protect them.

Yeah, I think the big things right now they're really top of mind are having in place. So online programs are a really big deal, Masterminds. Let's just talk about your business actually let's just turn that, let's turn the spotlight on you.

So I accept free legal advice. Hell yeah.

Perfect. That's exactly why I thought I was being brought on here. Okay, great. Let me just start my time right now. So a lot of people are now using online groups education wise. Right. So whether they're creating videos that you're downloading and watching, whether you're enrolling in a 12 week program, whether you're going into a mastermind, this is like the biggest thing right now in the online coaching and business world. Everyone in some capacity is obsessed with this concept and I'm all for it of like recurring revenue, evergreen content, all that good stuff. So people are signing up to be part of these 12 week programs, masterminds, some sort of something bigger than themselves. And what's happening a lot of times is that you have people who are then going in on, let's talk about money, who are going in on like installment payments. This is such a hot topic right now. So it is, I understand fully and I always want to preface anything I say with like, I never want to be diminutive as it relates to spending or investing. Like I know money is such a sensitive big topic for all of us. So I never want to say if you're not willing to pay this much money, it's a, it's any sort of moral connotation. It's just this is me speaking very frankly. So a lot of people aren't, you know, able or willing or want to say like let's just spend $5,000 off the bat and into a coaching program. So they are going to want to do installment payments and let's say they're going to put down half for the deposit so they can start working with you guys and then they're going to either put down a monthly installment for the next two to three months or they're going to you know, whatever that may look like, what a lot of people are realizing is that people are putting down half the payment and then they're not getting paid the rest because people are canceling credit cards, People are disputing credit cards. People are fill in the blank, right? And whether it's shady, whether it's malicious, whether whatever it is. So one of the things I'm seeing a lot is that people are having huge disputes with credit card companies. And credit card companies are like, great, we don't want to get involved in this petty nonsense. This is your business. This was your bad. Tell us how you set yourself up to fix this. And so something I do with all of my clients, because online programs, all of like mastermind groups, this is like something a big that I've been doing a lot of this year is we're putting together really clear terms of service contracts for when you sign up. So for you, rt, with all of your FAST foundation people, you want to make sure that you're having language if you do installment payments that account for you to get paid by certain dates and triggers that cut off program access if you don't get paid, that have auto bill language in it. And you're using a payment processor like striper square or PayPal that allow for you to build credit cards that also give you the right to completely go after them for full balances if they try to dispute credit cards. So what some people will do is they'll go to their credit card company and they'll dispute it, and the credit card company will say, let me see the agreement. And you don't have an agreement in place. They're like, oh, sorry, they're going to dispute it. There's no agreement. We're going to take their side because they're our client. Alternatively, you might put language in your agreement that says if you dispute any installment payment, we're owed the whole amount in some plus a penalty. @ which point the credit card company is like, you signed a piece of paper. Now they're going to actually pay you guys out for that wholesome plus penalty.

Yeah, that's awesome.

And most people, we don't want to say it, aren't reading the fine print of their contracts. But you know what? Into your contract, rt, because you and I wrote it to make sure that it's like, you know, know Chef's Kiss. Perfect. So this is something that a lot of people are finding with their online programs is that they're defaulting on credit card payments, the auto billing isn't working, and that's really messing them up. The other thing that's happening a lot is IP violations where people are downloading courses, they're repackaging and they're reselling it. And I'm sure you have lots of thoughts and on, you know, violations of ip, but what we know really simply is that you can't steal other people's stuff. Right? Like the laws of the universe, pretty straightforward people stuff.

But if you're not pretty straightforward, I think you know. Yeah.

What do we know?

I don't know. Well, and I think that maybe there's a difference between you can't and you shouldn't and people read into that. It's like the thing you said the last time we spoke of like, you know, I run yellow lights, but it's the people that run red lights that were, that we're writing the contracts for. I love that. So huge.

Yeah, yeah. So like let's talk about these red light runners, right? They're the people who are taking the content maybe out of your master library and they're repackaging it and they're reselling it. If you don't put anything in that actually says like you can't do this, if we find out we do that you're doing this, we're going to sue you. And not only are we going to sue you, we're going to sue you for damages and you're going to pay our attorneys fees and you're going to, you know, and you put all of those stipulations in. Those are the two big things that are happening right now. Social media, online content, it is the wild west. And so unless we can be like so explicit and what we're doing, this is costing businesses so much time, so much money. And more than that, I keep going back to is this energy and your energy is your time and it's a non refundable resource. I don't care how much money the judge awards you in jury damages or attorneys fees. You just spent a year of your life stressing out or you just spent a week of your life chasing down credit card payments. When, when you have these things really clearly laid out in your legal, it's a no brainer. It's actually like how insurance companies look at it. So to go back to your Bella example, if you for example had something in your employment contract of hey, you know, we're not responsible if you slip and fall in the reasonable course of business and let's say not Bella. So say someone just, you know, I slip and fall, I'M a visitor there. Your insurance company is saying like, do you have any language? And you're like, yes, I do. Your insurance company will cover you. But what people are not realizing is that insurance is actually not the best thing in the world. We think it's going to save us against everything. Not the case. Credit card companies, not the case. These people don't want to pay out money. So think about the cost of the payout versus the cost of a legal agreement. Like not, you know, you guys all can't see my hands, but they're not.

Equal, not, not the same. And there's, there's so many things when you look at an insurance agreement and a contract that there's, there's so much legalese in there. There's so it's, it's like it's written in another language. And it's, it's almost like it's written so that people like me that are busy entrepreneurs, like, we, we just, we scan the first page and we're like, oh my God, there's 80 more pages of this. Like, I don't have time for this. And it's, it's, it's detrimental for the fact that we might not even want to, we definitely don't want to, but we might not read all the, all the, you know, contract that we're about to sign. So are there, I guess two questions. Are there certain things to look for when I get a, when I get a contract, when I get an agreement from a vendor, when I'm creating one, when I'm reviewing something as a, as a business owner, Is there a couple things I can really look for as I scan? Because, like, I'm going to be honest, I'm not going to read every single word on every single contract. But are there major headlines of like, okay, zoom in on this. Read every single word of these few paragraphs because that's where they get you. And I guess my next question, which I'd love to learn more about, is just what's negotiable? As I'm reading through these, what do you think are terms that people normally discuss before they sign a contract and what's negotiable there versus what's just, just industry standard and we shouldn't even like worry about it.

These are great questions. I wish everyone ask them. Let me just say, and I also want to agree with you that no one has time. I don't want to read an 80 page contract. My God, that sounds like the worst use of my day ever. But to take It a step back actually it's interesting because we've gone into such a digital age. One of the things I do with a lot of my clients is I, I just do contract review for them. Especially in the age of sponsorships, influencers, brand partnerships. One of the best things that you could honestly do rt, is if you or any business owner got a contract that was 80 pages, it's to call your attorney and say, I have an 80 page contract, I don't have time for this shit. Can you please look at this and give me the five biggest red flags that I need to look out for. And I think that's where a lot of people are also getting themselves into problem, into trouble is that they're looking at this contract and, and they're like this phone book and I aren't going to drive today, toss it, move on. They're going to look at the first thing, what's my payout? How much money am I getting? When does this contract start? Let me sign my life away. And so the very first thing that I always recommend to people do, and I think it's, you don't know unless you know, call your attorney. Like that's what we're here to do. That's what we're literally meant to do. Now let's say you don't have a Danielle in your corner. Your life is not blessed. But I'm here now or you don't. You know, it's not in your budget.

They do now because they can just, they can click underneath the show notes here and just contact you and you can review their contracts. But let's, let's pretend that's not a thing. What would they do?

Well, exactly, exactly. So the first things I always ask people are in like a two second summary. What's the deal? Tell me what the deal is. And so let's say, for example, I'm just going to throw this out there. Let's say, for example, you were like, Danielle, I'm going to pay you to be on this podcast, I'm going to pay you a hundred dollars and I want to keep your rights for this video forever. I'm going to repackage this video and I'm going to be able to use it for content on YouTube, I'm going to be able to monetize it. I'm going to put this on social media, I'm going to create reels, I'm going to use this as education in my course. Is that cool? And I'm like, yes to all of the above. Right. So now you send me a contract. What I want that contract to be able to tell me is if I were to glance at it, or better yet, if my assistant were to glance at it and they would say, okay, I see that Danielle's going on a podcast with what's the scope of work? Is it very clear? What's the financial exchange? What is she getting paid for it and how is she getting paid? This is super important, guys, because a lot of us are like down to get paid money. But sometimes it says we have to send an invoice and we're not going to get paid for 90 days. And then they have to verify or whatever that case may be. And so a lot of times payments are massively delayed. And I know a payment delay is at the end of the world. It's just super annoying. Especially when we're business owners. We know our churn rate, we know our Runway. Hey, we're really relying on that money to come in, right? So let's make sure that your money is accurate. Next thing to do is to know what rights you're giving up or you're getting from the work that you're doing. So in this example I talked about, I'm going to come on this show, we're going to record a video. Video equals content. Content equals monetization. Right? So what are they able to do with it? Maybe rt, you're going out there and you're doing consulting services. What are they able to do with the consulting that you're giving them? Can they repackage it or resell it? Prob. Can they use it for other subsidiaries or other affiliates they have? Maybe. So you want to know both what they're getting from you and what you're getting from them. And if they're able to then take what that product is or that services and give it to other people or use it. Super important. The other things to know are what happens when ish hits the fan, how do we default? What are termination laws? So let's say it's a one and done thing. So something like this for you and I, I don't want to be on your podcast. Okay? You don't pay me. Done. Right. Other people are actually stuck in contracts that they can't get out of or they can't get out of without deliverables or they can't get out of like non competes for a certain amount of time. Super duper important to know if you don't want to be in a business relationship with this company or person anymore. How does that happen for you? Now for most of us, we don't even have that privilege. For most contracts that you're going to be in, companies are going to have that first right to just be like, no thanks, we don't want to work with you anymore. But you should also know that as well. Like let's say as an employee and as an employer, most employers can fire you at any moment. As an employee you want to know that, you want to know if you're going to lose your livelihood. So termination, default, those are the other two big key terms. The thing that we're all hearing these days right now that's a little bit more technical is called indemnity. And indemnity, vacation or hold harmless or release of claims. Those are all big fancy words that basically says if again everything hits the fan, depending on whose fault it is, who's going to make sure that the other person is covered? So indemnity is a fancy way of saying that like if you're working for me and something goes wrong, I'm going to pay for your legal fees or I'm going to protect you and make sure nothing bad happens to you. Now a lot of times what's happening in contracts is that businesses are saying you're going to protect us, but we're not going to protect you. So you're exposing yourself to this one sided liability where not only are you not getting protected, you have to help somebody else out, which time, energy, money, all of that. So indemnity is something that you know, to go back to your second question, you can always negotiate whether or not you're going to win. It's really up in the air. And then the last thing to know about about contracts, so again like scope of work, financials, IP rights, all of that, termination, indemnity, and this is like a not sexy one at all that nobody thinks about is law, venue, jurisdiction. That means that when something does go wrong, where are you actually going to deal with it? This matters a lot because businesses are operating online. So we're in all different states, we're in all different countries. If you're trying to get into a contract with an international company, guys, you might not even have rights to actually like fight with them legally. Huge consideration. The other thing is that being in a courtroom, so like being in a jury trial or a courtroom is going to cost you 10 to 100 times more than being in something like an arbitration. Does this matter really? It's the one in 100 times. It's the airbag example. If you don't have this in your contract, you're going to really wish you did. And if you don't have it or you know you do have it, like you're going to be glad that you asked for it. Now this is one of those interesting conversations because people always say like what is worth asking for? And the truth is is you have to kind of look at what the contract is actually for. You're paying me a hundred dollars for some video. Do I care where we have this arbitration? No, because we're never going to get it, get to an arbitration. And I think that's the other thing that people need to ask themselves is go to the worst case scenario, catastrophize this. Is this really going to blow up in your face? If this is this multi six figure deal? Yeah. You want to make sure all these points are correct. If this is a Dorito Instagram post, I don't care about any of those. I just want to make sure you deliver your content. You get paid your couple hundred dollars, right? So look at the scope of your contract and really ask yourself what's the headache? What's the cost benefit analysis? But go back to those initial points of scope of work, financial payout, termination, IP rights, those are the ones I want you to care about the most.

And just to kind of drive that point home. In my six year lawsuit, Hamilton Vortic, if you guys haven't seen that Vortic watch company got sued by the world's largest watch company. We won. So it was okay. But had I had this very precise type of insurance and it's not product liability insurance and, and maybe you can correct me on like what it's called, but if I actually read the insurance document and if I went to my insurance company within, because I read the insurance contract after it happened, but if, if I got sued for a trademark or patent related thing and it wasn't and it was like defensible, which this one was, then if I alerted my insurance company of the fact that I was getting sued within 12 months of the lawsuit occurring and I had this, you know, particular line item of insurance which is very inexpensive, my insurance company would have foot the bill for that entire six months of, or six years of lawsuit plus travel and all kinds of stuff that, that my attorneys and myself had to do and we were missing that and we didn't know that that was even a thing. So that's like tying back to what we started with. Like if you don't know, you don't know. And so I mean, I feel like we could just sit here and just rattle off things that you should know for like two hours and maybe that'd be really helpful. But that's, that's one little thing that I didn't know that insurance companies can actually help you with those lawsuits. You just have to have the conversation with them and make sure you're covered for that particular thing and have a couple legal documents in place to actually ensure that that coverage. The other thing was when the lawsuit happened, they sued us and all of the documents, like basically the lawsuit had to occur in New York City. It was a Swiss based company, but they had a New York based law firm. And then we're in Colorado. Had I had some sort of agreement there and it's a little out of scope for this particular thing. But what you just said, if those, if there was an agreement in place and there was a lawsuit because of the agreement, and I said the lawsuit has to occur in Colorado. First of all, Colorado law is very different and way easier to understand than New York law. And I wouldn't have had to travel, they would have had to fly to me to sit down with a Colorado flight federal judge instead of a New York federal judge and the state of New York. You don't want to get sued in New York. Like, it's not fun, especially the federal districts. Like, that was intense. But it's those little things that, I mean, like you said, Danielle, you can just solve it with a simple review from an attorney. And that's one of the, one of the big questions I had for you, if you're willing to share just like generalities. You talked about costs. And I think that's the scary thing. Can you just rattle off for us, like, and for me too, like, I, I, I don't know the answer to this. What should a contract review cost? What should I be paying per hour for an attorney for a good one, you know, not a great one, you know, I probably can't afford a great one, but like, what's a good range for those things? For contract reviews, for basic contracts, you know, I see all this legal stuff and templates for, you know, $49 for this and $199 for this. And you know, I know what I paid my attorney that defended us and it was worth every cent, but it wasn't insignificant per hour. So what should we expect when we're reviewing the costs of this kind of thing and trying to financially justify it?

Absolutely, that's a great question. And I want to preface this also by Like I'm in California. I know we charge a lot for just like air to breathe in California. So I don't want anyone to freak out.

It's for the sunshine. So I'm happy sunshine.

And you know what rt I'm just going to rub this in right now I'm wearing a sweater which is it just, it's because I just got delivered today and I was trying it on but it is 75 degrees in November right now. So like we pay for that guys.

It was, it was 22 when I left the gym this morning. I was like oh no. Yep. Anyway, continue before I. Yeah, yeah, so sorry, sorry, sorry.

I'll stop that, pull it back. But I think so what I want to say is that one I always say rates are value and so the rate you're going to pay is the value that you're going to get. And I want to say that because to some people, you know, they're okay downloading a 19949 form, whatever that might be and that's great and if you find that that's valuable to you, then that's not my place to tell you that that's not your value. What I'm going to say is that everything I do starts over 500. For really basic contracts like let's say that you just want a really simple like non disclosure so that somebody who is your studio manager or assistant is working for you. Great. That's going to be in the like you know, 6, 5, 7, $5,800 range. Why? Because I want to talk to you and make sure that I understand what you're actually like having this person do. And let me just back it up even further to what I said at the very beginning. Every contract that you're getting is customized to the actual situation you have. And if it's not, then that's also a kind of a red flag to me as well that if we're not customizing it to what you need it to be for, you might as well go on Etsy and buy that 49 $99 contract. So I like to say that everything I do is, is in the like hundreds, not thousands. And if we start stacking them then let's find a price point that works for you. But I want people to know that paying 500, 750, a thousand dollars for one to two legal agreements is the most reasonable steal you'll ever make in your life. Now if you're coming to me, let's say with that 80 page contract and you Want to review it? I charge about 350 to 450 an hour to go through it. But I also am then going to sit down with you. I'm explain every single paragraph that you want explained, or I'm going to tell you what you don't need to worry about. Now, some people are going to hear $400 an hour and be like, this girl thinks she's a brain surgeon. And then other people are going to hear $400 an hour and be like, that's the best $400 I'm going to spend. So let's go back to that.

Yeah, I lucked out. I only paid $100 for this. You know, we. We've been on for 38 minutes, so this is good. This is awesome.

I. I'll send you that invoice. Then we're gonna.

There wasn't a contract, so no invoice to be sent to the. To be sent.

I think, oh, my gosh, the man has learned so much on this call. It's. I'm giving you this power for good, not evil. Don't forget that. So perfect. But you. You guys are also going to have attorneys who are very, you know, who claim that they're so good at what they do that they're charging $1,000 an hour. Again, it goes back to perceived value to me. Do you want the clients that are going to charge you $1,000 an hour? Great. With that is going to come a certain level of clients, clientele, and it's also going to come a certain level of expectation of customer service, of every single thing that you do. To me, I find that, like, the 400 an hour range is very comfortable to me. I find that charging, you know, 750 to a thousand dollars a contract is very comfortable for me. It, to me, is demonstrative of, you know, decade plus of experience. It's demonstrative of the customer experience you're going to get with me. But I take it back to the point that I would rather help one extra small business owner who's willing to make this investment than to say, like, no, thank you. I don't need your money because I'm charging $1,000 an hour that. Does that help our industries? No. Why? Because a rising tide of cell shifts. If everyone believes that they could have something, if everyone can make their businesses a little stronger, we would get rid of so many of the bigger problems. Would that put me out of business? We'll see. But I think that at the end of the day, if you do good work, and you do it at a price point that your clients can afford, you will still be able to be financially successful and hit your own revenue goals. And so that's kind of a business lesson thrown into all of that. But I think that if we look at how much we're charging hourly or product wise or whatever, we have to feel good about it. But then I also want you guys to know, is 500 to $1,000 worth a six year lawsuit? Like, I'd say, yes. Yes.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I mean, I would have paid that 100 times over to have somebody review those contracts. But, you know, I, I didn't know. And you don't know, you don't know. So maybe, and, and is, I guess my question is, is it fair to say that maybe one of the first questions we ask somebody like yourself or if we come to you for, for help, instead of saying, how much do you charge per hour? How much do you charge for this contract? Say, can you help me justify spending what you charge for this contract? And is this particular, particular legal issue something that I'm going to get a good return on my investment, or would you advise me spending my dollars elsewhere? Is, is that fair? Like, how do you have that conversation with people?

I love that. And sometimes people, first of all, I love talking about value because I think as business owners, we need to justify our expenses, right? Like, we're not, we all don't have money trees in our backyard or if you do, like, but we need to be able to justify what we're spending. And so, for example, some people will tell me that spending a thousand dollars on a photo shoot for Instagram content is worth it. And I'm like, great, but then you have no contracts, but that's value to you, right? And so if somebody comes to me and says, this is the state of my business, this is where I'm at. I have this much money to spend and I have one thing to spend it on. What is it? Let's talk about that and then let's talk about where you're going to get the return from. Like, one of the things that I've had a lot of people work with me recently is also employment agreements and independent contractor agreements. And because in California, independent contractors are such a hot topic, we want to make sure that your independent contractor or employment or worker agreements are so set that they're protecting your business. How you're interacting with people is so set that you're not crossing any lines or boundaries that, you know, our state employment laws put into place. So is it worth spending the money on the employment agreement to make sure that's ironclad versus versus maybe your website terms of service? Absolutely. Should you then prioritize this level of investment? Yes, but I think that the. For. For people to be able to look at it as an investment, and that's what I like to say, is that this isn't an expense. There's two ways to spend money in your business, I think you'll agree. Investments and expenses. Right. Investments should always be able to pay you back. So the ability that you have this shield around you that's going to protect you, that's always going to be paying you back for the potential of these lawsuits versus just spending money on a contract that's not great, or spending money on something that's just there, that's like a, you know, a vase for your lobby or whatever.

That makes total sense. Well, I think that's. That's where I would start that conversation. And I am so grateful for this conversation, Danielle. I learned a lot. I'm sure everyone following along did, too. And if you didn't learn enough and you want to learn more, how can these people contact you? What's the best way for them to reach out for you for advice?

Yeah, I love to live on social media like we all do these days. You guys can find me on Instagram, Danielle said. You can go to my website, Danielle said Blanton. We can link those for everybody, and you can get in touch with me there. It's always me that replies to messages. I'm a huge believer in that. And so, so if you're getting a reply, it's me. So come hang out, come say hi. Let me know you listened in. Let me know how I can help you. And I would love to be part of that.

Well, thank you for helping us. And if you've been listening to these types of episodes, I call them mentor sessions. So, Danielle, as a mentor to me, and now to all of us, thank you so much for coming. Thank you. To everyone who's listening, everyone who's watching, we appreciate you.

Thank you.

Reach out to us. If you have questions, comments, put them right here on YouTube. If you're watching us on YouTube, we want to know so we can get those questions answered and then, yeah, connect with, I mean, both of us on Instagram. I've been through a lot of legal stuff. I'd love to help. And I'll probably now just send you straight to Danielle because I'll be like, yep, that sounds like a document you should have reviewed. So thanks for joining us today on the Fast Foundations podcast. This is rt. That was Danielle. Thank you Danielle so much.

Thanks for having me guys. We'll talk soon.

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