Jeff Dudan talks with Richard Cacioppi about how Army and Notre Dame's football rivalry shaped American culture, from the 1946 Game of the Century that ended 0-0 to the Vietnam War's impact on how veterans were treated when they came home.
Questions this episode answers
0–0 tie
Blanchard; (Pete) Davis; Leon Hart; Johnny Lujack
Chapters
Did you know that the army vs. Notre Dame rivalry goes way beyond football? It's a story that's shaped by war sacrifice and a country finding its way after some of its toughest years. In this recap, we'll revisit my conversation with Richard Cacioppi and explore the fascinating connection between this legendary rivalry and American history. With college football making headlines this week, Notre Dame's 4914 win over army at Yankee Stadium was a huge moment. But this game is more than just a score. It's a nod to the incredible history between these two teams. It goes all the way back to the 1946 Game of the Century, which ended in a famous 00 tie. This rivalry has always been about more than football. It's about tradition, resilience, and a nation coming together.
Jeff Today we call a returning veteran on a football team. A guy who played last year in 1946. A returning veteran was a guy who had been at the Battle of the Bulge or at Iwo Jima.
That's right.
So Notre dame had maybe 54 of those guys on its roster.
That's why I was so excited to sit down with Richard Cacioppi, author of Black Knights and Fighting Irish. His book uncovers the deeper story behind this legendary rivalry and its connection to America's struggles and triumph. Today, I want to share some highlights and key moments from this powerful conversation with a charming, charming man.
I really hope that they. They get a sense of what the country went through and how upbeat and positive our citizens were in the face of awful tragedy, in the face of grinding poverty, but always with the. With the sense of positiveness that, hey, wait a second. We're Americans. We can do this. No matter what it is, we can do that. Last time, I think that we were totally united and were all focused on one event, and that was winning World War II.
Richard set the tone early by reflecting on a time when America was aligned on values and purpose. He spoke about the unity during World War II and the sacrifices that were made by millions. What stood out most was his perspective on the determination of that generation, a reminder of the grit and resilience that built this country. We don't often think about how this alignment fueled not only military success, but also the cultural moments like the army and Notre Dame football rivalry that became symbolic of America's spirit of the day.
So when the corps of cadets came down to Yankee stadium for that 1946 game, when they got off the train in the Bronx, the crowd jeered them and called them draft dodgers because they had spent the war years in. On the Hudson there at West Point. And the Notre Dame guys had been at the war. An army which had a significant recruiting advantage because of that in 1944 and 1945, had beaten the Notre Dame folks 107 to 0 in those two years, which was so out of, out of bounds for what it had been for its entire history of the series. Most of those games were decided by a field goal or a touchdown. All of a sudden you had two years when all of the Notre Dame players were at war and army had this. This really significant advantage in recruiting, ran over top of them. So the Notre Dame students were chanting, 56 and 48. This is the year we retaliate. And they. There was revenge on everybody's heart to even the score. And the game finished at 00. Disappointment the whole world, but, oh, my goodness, hard for game.
So no overtime.
No overtime back then. Zero, zero. And everybody went home. Went home brokenhearted because. And both army and Notre Dame at that point were ranked number one and two. They continued on in the rest of the season, both undefeated. Army had been national champs 44 and 45. And. But the sportscasters awarded the championship to Notre Dame in 1946 because Navy really fought army very tough in their last game. So Notre Dame became national champs in 46. Both coaches, Blake and Leahy from Notre Dame and Blake from army were coaches of the year.
Richard shared deeply personal stories about serving in Vietnam and how the perception of military service shifted drastically between World War II and in the Vietnam era. He reminded us of the sacrifices made not just on the battlefield, but also in the transition back to a society that didn't always welcome veterans with open arms. It was humbling to hear how he navigated those challenges while continuing to serve.
His country as the country turned on the military. 68, 69. A soldier came home and he was in the San Francisco airport in his uniform, and some woman came up and got in his face and started screaming at him and saying, how could you do that? How could you go over there and do that to those poor people? Why would you go. And he said to her, he looked her in the eye and he said, well, you sent me. I thought you knew. And that's exactly the right answer. It was the elected government of the United States says, hey, folks, this is in America's best and national interest. Go do this. And if you're a soldier, you go do it. You don't have a choice to say, you know, I'm not liking this one. So much. Call me when you get another one.
And of course, we couldn't have Richard on without mentioning this historic 1946 Army Notre Dame game, which wasn't just a football game. It was a cultural moment. Four Heisman Trophy winners on the field and America still reeling from the war. This matchup became a symbol of perseverance and hope. Richard brought this history to life in a way that connects sports to the larger story of our country and the era that he lived in.
But in that 1946 game, you had four Heisman Trophy winners. Four. Blanchard, Davis, Leon Hart, and Johnny Lujak. When was the last time? I think never again will you have four Heisman Trophies trophy winners in a game.
No, you never, never will. Did they play both ways?
Oh, yeah, they did. And that's how Johnny Lujak was the one that saved the touchdown. Blanchard finally broke loose, was running down the sideline, and Lu Jack came across the field and tackled him to save the touchdown. And an interesting story the guy told you about. The quarterback for army was Arnold Tucker, and he played defense. He intercepted three passes from Johnny Lujak. After the game, Coach Leahy said to Johnny Lujak, very seriously, John, how is it that you threw three interceptions to Arnold Tucker? And Lujak, who was really a fun loving guy, said, well, it's this way, coach. He was the only guy I could find open. I interviewed the book. He was a terrific. What a terrific gentleman he was.
As we wrapped up, I asked Richard what one piece of advice he'd give to inspire others. His answer was simple, yet profound. Just do it. Whether you're starting a new project, taking on a challenge, or trying to make a difference, this mindset is key. I couldn't agree more. Let's carry forward the lessons of the past and make the most of today.
So often we are, we are bound by and suppressed by our own insecurities about, oh, I can't, or nobody will like it, or. And it just, you just got to do it. And if it winds up in a box, so what, you know, it's a. It's a great exercise and you'll feel better just for getting it out.
Thank you so much for joining me on this recap of my conversation with Richard Cacioppi. If you haven't already, make sure to check out the full episode. It's filled with stories and insights that will truly bring history and football to life for you. And while you're at it, grab a copy of Richard's book, Black Knights and Fighting Irish for even more incredible details. It's great. And don't forget to like, subscribe and share this episode to keep the conversation going. Until next time, stay focused, stay driven, and I'll see you on the home front. Thanks for listening.
