Brent Chapman | On the Homefront with Jeff Dudan #49

The biggest part that has always made me feel like I got growth to do was I basically hired a lot of my friends.

It really works well when you hire everybody. That's just like you.

Right.

Loyalty matters.

Yeah.

And especially when you're in that scrum of small business.

Yep.

Loyalty is important.

The culture now is like, my team wants to beat you. Not because we think we're better, just because we're driven inside of a franchising system. We feel this like we're going to beat them. We're competing against one another. But if Tom's really, like, if you need something, you call me and I'm going to help you.

Brent Chapman, welcome to on the Home Front with Jeff Duden. Thank you for being in studio with us today.

Absolutely. Happy to be here.

Yeah. Awesome. Fantastic to have you here today for the purpose of the audience. You were or still are the reigning Home Front Brands franchisee of the year. So congratulations on that.

Thank you.

And wanted to have you on, talk a little bit because you have an interesting background. Talk a little bit about business and see where else it goes. So thanks for being on the home front today.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Yep. So, again, Brent Chapman, everybody. Window hero franchisee, top rail fence franchisee. Brent, tell us a little bit, if you don't mind, about your early years, how you grew up, where you grew up.

Sure. Yeah. Grew up in a small town, Lincolnton, North Carolina. Pretty close to here, actually. And, yeah, just small town, driving tractors, middle of nowhere, 100 acres, farmland.

Okay.

No. Yeah. Business was never in the. In the picture. Pretty much everybody I knew did blue collar work and stayed at home and never left. Mom and dad have. We didn't really have a lot of money, you know, so it was a. Yeah, that was kind of the life my dad had. Worked at the same place, still does for 35 years making furniture.

Okay. Is that what. He's a craftsman, Good with his hands?

Yeah. I mean, well, we had rental properties. We fixed up, painted, you know, remodels, just all kinds of stuff. That was his kind of side hobbies.

Did you work with them?

Every Saturday, 6am Bright and early.

There you go.

Yep. A lot of. Yeah. Or I'd come home from college and there'd be a wall missing to the outside, and they'd be like, we're putting in a sunroom. We've got four days, no rain. We got to get a roof over this thing before you leave. And I would just grind like a dog for 12, 15 hours a day working with them and then go back to School right after Christmas time and work the whole time there.

Some of my fondest memories with my kids are when we took the time to build something outside. We had a barn, little farm property, little hobby farm. I remember building a sandbox. You know, just play sets, sandbox stuff like that. But just being out there all weekends with your kids building stuff is oddly fond memories.

I would say the same for us. We. When I got married, my wife was like, what are your memories? And we didn't really have memories of vacations and stuff like that. Yeah, all of my memories was working with my dad. So I mean it's. It taught me a lot, you know now, now what I've learned then and work ethic. And when you start something and end it, there's a moment when you step back and you see it and you. And you accomplished it. Something to teach when you're. When you're young, that, that early on it helps you. I'd be like 8 years old, get done cutting the grass, taking pictures on my parents phone because I was so proud of what the yard looks like. And that was probably elementary school. And that was. That was when all that started.

Yeah. Yeah. Did you do any sports at all?

Yep. Cross country and golf. Back to back. State champ, actually.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Back to back. Personal state champ.

The team. The team was back to back. Yeah. Cross country was back to back. State champ and then golf was also back to back.

Nice. What was your event in cross country.

Or is there just one in high school? There's just the one. The 5K.

Okay.

Yep. I think I. It's been a long time, but 16 something in the 5K.

Okay.

Yeah, that's. Can't do that anymore. Maybe make it a mile.

Yeah, I. I just recently got my personal best in. In the 5K.

What'd you get?

3K.

There you go. Yeah.

That's a stolen joke, by the way. I forgot. Forget.

Yeah.

That scroll. That was a Norm MacDonald.

Wish I would have kept up with golf. That would have been a better thing to be doing now than looking back and just.

You don't play.

I do a lot. I mean, I still play and probably once a week when it's warm.

Okay.

But I had to make a decision when I went to college if I wanted to run or play golf.

Yeah.

And I thought. I thought running was the way to go.

Okay. Where'd you go to school?

Western Carolina.

Went to Western.

Yep.

And you were on the track team? Cross country team.

I went thinking that was going to be the route and I ended up taking a job at the rec center, and I took a job at the. I was the first. First and only freshman ever they'd ever hired. Come in. Didn't think that was going to happen. And I just thought that that was a better route forward instead of getting last place or mediocre all throughout college, just call it quits when I got that job and start working.

Nice. So, what. What'd you study in school?

Kinesiology.

Okay.

Yep.

So that's like physical therapy.

Study the body. Yeah. And then movement. So I didn't know what I really wanted to do. I thought that for a while I might teach, so I did. I taught for a year at Smoky Mountain elementary, and then I worked for the Y for a couple of years. Personal training, health and wellness. And then I thought maybe I'd go into physical therapy. Never really knew what the route forward was, but I knew I wanted to do something active and moving. At least I thought that's what I.

Wanted at the time.

Yeah.

Nice. So you go through school. Were you a good student?

I mean, I think I was, yeah. I don't love to sit still, so I got good grades, but I wasn't a good student is what I'd say.

Do you have any side hustles other than the job?

I work. Yeah. I work 38 hours a week at the rec center.

Okay.

25 hours a week at the church. And. And I had a little rental property with roommates, so I took care of the house. And during the summertime, I'd stay and fix it up for more roommates to move in.

Okay. So. So was your. It was your house?

Yep.

Your family's house?

Yeah. Well, I had a guy from church, and we went in together.

Okay.

And I. Yeah.

So you were entrepreneurial from a young age?

Yeah, high school. I cut grass for neighbors and bought lawnmowers at yard sales and would flip stuff. I mean, I just. I did whatever it took to make some money. I didn't know that at the time that that's what that was, but, yeah, that was. That was the spirit that I had, I guess.

Yeah. Everybody needs a side hustle.

Yeah.

You got to be active. Active and transactive when you're growing up and figuring out how money works and all of that kind of stuff. You know, kids today that. With the sports, they get into the sports, and now there's all the training that goes with the sport, so. Oh, we got hitting lessons Tuesday, Thursday, and then we got strength and conditioning on these days. And then you're practicing with the School and all that. Still the same percentage of kids that go on to play college and go on to play professional. I think it's good from the perspective. I think there's. Obviously we're, we're a big athletic family. So, you know, the sports was very important to us. But I also think that some of the, some of their side hustle was working for the company as I was building it and going out in the evenings or in the weekends on a water damage job, coming into the warehouse, cleaning things up, whatever that was. It was kind of, you know, they would make some money that way.

Absolutely.

But I do think that. And they're, and they're all, they're all pretty gamey around creating value. But I think my youngest one in particular was. He was less interested in sports, less serious about it. He still played the sports, but he just, you know, he just didn't really want to think about it. 24 7. And he ended up with all kinds of side hustles and businesses, which is interesting. So as an observer, I'm interested to see how that manifests in his adult life having. Being a little bit more entrepreneurial.

Yep.

But we'll see.

Sports is just a good way to have. You don't have immediate results when you're trying something. So like, I think cross country was one of the hardest things because your, your off season, nobody sees you up in the morning and that you're running the 15 miles and the work you're putting in and you might not run a race for the next six months.

Yeah.

And you know, and there's, and there's no teammates to back you up. Really. It's when you get to the start line, nobody else is running it for you.

That's right.

And, and I think that was why I hated a lot of other team sports. Because when I grew up playing soccer and basketball like youth ages and I'd get so mad when somebody else wouldn't do well.

Yeah.

Because I couldn't, couldn't fix it. So I like things that was on my shoulders and I had to, I had to handle that. And so in sports you just, there's a prolonged result. Same, you know. And I think that that teaches you a lot for now as an adult that there's a prolonged result and if.

You don't do the work in private, you're never going to get rewarded in public.

Exactly.

And sometimes you do the work in private and you might not get rewarded anyway.

Right.

We had goals of our youth sports teams that we did. Was the, the only Goal we had was that they could make their high school team. Huh.

Okay.

Which is competitive now for whatever they're doing. So we'd start with them and fourth and fifth grade and whatever skills we were giving them, whatever training we were giving them, whatever education we were giving them, we. What that forced you to do is it forced you to work on the fundamentals?

Yeah.

To make sure that. Okay, well, when they get up to, they're going to go through this middle school and they're going to need to make their middle school team. Really? To make their high school team. Yeah. So the first thing they had to do was make their middle school team and we had to have them show up. If they weren't athletically the best, they would have had to have some superpower, you know, some good tech. They could, they could hit well, they could, they could bunt well, they could pitch, they could, they could catch whatever it was. We had to make sure that there was going to be some reason they would make the team. And then if they did that and then as the training kind of continued with travel ball and the different summer things that would happen during middle school, those were designed then to get them to make their high school team. And then after high school then, you know, we just went up in the stands and sat there with a hot chocolate and watched them.

That's great.

That's the way we did it. So you graduated from Western.

Yep.

Correct. And moved on. And at some point you got exposed to this idea of franchise.

Yep.

What did you do? What did you do immediately out of school?

So I took a job at the Y as a Livestrong director.

Okay.

I don't know if you're familiar with that program. Most people just think of Neil Armstrong. But people that either currently have cancer or they're cancer free can sign up and get a free 12 week program. And they, and I would meet with them. You work out, you do mental health and then counseling and then you do group and individual sessions.

Was it fitness, nutrition and accountability?

Yep.

And mental.

Yeah.

Okay.

And so you meet with these people, you either help them with their doctor visits or their at home life. A lot of them are, some of the group is needing the physical fitness aspect of it to relearn and maybe just had a surgery where if they do a push up, they feel it in their back because their muscles have changed. Some of them have just been really depressed for so long and they don't have those people around them. So that was, that was my job. I just worked. I think I would carry 60 clients at a time. And that was. Yeah.

What did you like about that?

I think my favorite part was watching the group build together. So most of them would get into a group and you would help see them. And when you'd meet them, they would lots of times feel defeated or, you know, confused. Life is tough. You get this cancer diagnosis and it's scary. And so what's next? And I'm a. My wife hates this. So when she tells me a problem, my general response is like, what are we going to do about that? And I respond with something to do about it, like, what's next? In marriage, it's not always good. Sometimes you just need to listen. But in reality, with people that are just heard there's a cancer diagnosis and they're confused, My job was to create a game plan. Let's get healthy. Let's get our diet right. Let's be ready for these treatments, surgeries, the path ahead. We've already been. You've been to the ringer for years. We're going to get our life back to a place where we're not out of breath when we're walking into a building. And we would see true progress over time. You got to meet their families. I would go to their homes generally and like, know them so that the positives were when you would see somebody get the diagnosis and get come out on the other side. So that was always my favorite, you know, and quickly about my personal history. My brother had cancer for five years. We saw that there. So fairly, I came with some family experience to bring to the table of what it looks like just a day in, day out on the people.

How old was he when he had his cancer?

I think he was 18 when he got diagnosed for the first time.

Okay.

Yeah. And then we both were in high school. I do remember that. And then he graduated with a four year college degree and had cancer the whole four years.

Wow. Yeah.

He's a baller.

Okay. How's he doing now?

Healthy, Cancer free.

Nice.

Three kids, married.

Wow.

Yeah. Good life. Yeah. Engineer is killing it.

Nice.

Yep.

Oh, that's fantastic.

Yeah. So Livestrong was great. The deposits were good. But I went to 33 funerals in three years.

I was going to ask, is there a patient or two that. That you think of where you learned something important that you incorporate in your life today?

Yeah. So Lake Norman pretty close by. There was a lady. Rachel was her name. And she was like a community staple. She was biggest smile, loved everybody. People had shirts made. She. As her cancer progressed, the Community rallied around her. So many races and charity events and stuff, and she would open the door and smile and be at the Y. She was the first person you'd meet. And as her. As she got sick, people would get the carts and wheel her through the races, and she was just. She was just the best person. I still have pictures and text saved and I mean, there's probably. I bet her funeral had hundreds of people at it because she just. She meant so much to the area. And when that. That one hit pretty. That one was the last. My last one.

Was it?

Yeah. I had to be done after that one because I. We. We watched her fight for four years, and that was a. That was a tough one to lose because she just had the best spirit the whole time about it. And she knew. Yeah, yeah, she was. She knew where she was going at the end, but. But she fought so hard, and we really thought there was a chance for the longest time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How. How did your faith play into how you executed in that role?

Yeah, I. You know, depending upon the other person's faith, I guess it take a different role. But for. If, you know, for me, my biggest goal was just to encourage them and hope they knew that there was hope at the end of the road that, you know, that, you know, God love them and try. And if they. If they were someone of faith, that was the. That was the staple of who. What we were kind of basing it off of.

Right.

You know, there was a bigger picture, a bigger plan that, you know, there was something in control. God was in control of this outcome, of this, and whether. And the outcome doesn't dictate whether or not that plan comes true. Almost so healthy or unhealthy, fighting or lose the fight, that was all within the plan, and there was a reason behind it. And so, yeah, there's something to be said of somebody that can give you something worth fighting for when it doesn't look like there is, and there'd be a reason behind that. So it's tough.

Yeah.

But that's all. That's how most of our day started, was with. Was with some kind of Bible verse or scripture to kind of keep us grounded.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you had 60 patients all at one time. And is this a free program? That's community based by the Y. So anybody that. It was just made available through the community, through the Y.

If you had a doctor's note, you just proved that you basically, at any point in your life were diagnosed with cancer is free.

Okay.

All right.

How long did you do that.

Three years. Okay, well, two and a half, I guess.

So did it. Two and a half years. Came to the end of that. As you were looking near the. Probably something tugging on you, saying, hey, this is. I can't do this my whole life. Or I've chosen not to do this my whole life. Yep. Where. Where were you at mentally and thought process inside of what was next for you at that time?

That was. Yeah. So just put it in perspective. I was 23, living at home, my mom and dad, and I've been to dozens of funerals, and I'm single, so I was like, I want to further my career. I want to.

Funerals is not the best place to meet women.

No. Yeah, it was. So. It was like. And I was. So. I didn't know what was next, but I knew I needed to make a change was kind of the thought there. So I remember. I remember sitting down and writing, like, family or future family on the table.

Okay, career.

And then, like, just where, kind of where all that would match up. And I started writing. You know, I wanted to find a wife. I wanted to have, you know, this. This. This family to build. I wanted something to build it with or around or how long do I want to do that for? And. And then kind of where would be the best place to go and do that? And so I just started making phone calls. A friend of mine had just moved to Greensboro, be a part of a, you know, a church out that way. And. And then I had some friends out in Raleigh and some friends in, you know, other kind of bigger cities and just started reaching around for some opportunities. And I was, you know, that it became more and more real. All of this was somewhere in November, and I was, in my mind, was pretty set.

What year was that?

2017.

Okay. All right. Seven years ago.

Yep.

All right. Yep.

And then. Yeah, so then I remember I got a call from Tyler Kirk asking me like, hey, can you. Can you meet us for coffee at Panera Bread the Thursday before Christmas? And he presented, you know, their franchising out to Greensboro.

And this was the Labor Pains franchise.

Labor Pains franchise.

How did he get your name?

Clint. The guy in Greensboro, that was a friend, went to college or worked in college with Tyler through campus outreach. And somehow they knew each other. And when I texted Clint, hey, like, I'm looking, you know, what opportunities do we have out that way? He was sending me, like, things to look into. And I did that coffee the Thursday before Christmas, and then the day before, two days before Christmas, I get a call A headhunter position. It offered me a job, starting salary of like 100 grand. And Christmas day, I tell my mom, hey, I've turned down the job that started me out. 100 grand. And I'm gonna go franchise a business called labor pains.

Bran, I'm not telling you how to run your life, but the day after Christmas would have been just as good.

Yeah, I made that call. That was a big day. My mom cried for weeks.

Yeah, right. On Christmas day.

Yeah.

The gift that kept on giving.

Yeah. And then I moved. January 3rd. Yeah. Yeah.

Awesome. Okay. So you saw the vision. You weren't sure what it exactly was going to look like, but you knew that you were going to. I'm going to take this leap in doing your planning, which is really important. You probably looked at it and said, if I'm going to take a flyer, now's the time.

Yep.

Because what do you. What do you have to lose at that point?

I'm young. I've got nothing, you know, nothing holding me here.

Right.

Really, at that point.

Everybody needs an adventure in life.

Yeah, I just, you know, I saw. I taught P.E. i worked at the Y, and I was making, you know, 40, 50k a year. And I was like, is this what I want to do till I'm 70? Like, is this really. Am I really going to go to 20 funerals a year for 40 years? You know, was that really what was going to happen? Or am I going to work around everybody else's schedule from 5am till 7pm every day trying to train clients?

Right.

And in a small town that I've lived in my whole life with, you know, or what. What do I want? And so, yeah, I remember I bought an F150 to go clean windows. And I drove it to Greensboro and moved into an apartment with three. My rent was $330 a month.

Isn't that amazing how you remember those. Those first bills?

Oh, it was all. Yeah. And it was three.

I got a house in Boone and the payment was owner financed.

Yeah.

And it was 406. 79. 406. 76.

Yep.

That was a payment.

Yeah, it was correct. We had three guys in a one bedroom apartment.

I saw that episode. It was on the Three Stooges.

Yeah. I technically slept in a closet on a twin bed when I first moved there. Yep. I. I started my business and had my first staff meeting in my quote unquote living room of a one bedroom apartment. And I just, I. To this day, Tyler still works for me after. After seven years and. And he looked at me. And he was like, I have no idea why I stuck around. I should have left that day. When he was my first hire, he had to think that I was crazy.

Yeah.

Yep.

Well, you need to be a little crazy. I think you do trust yourself to take a few chances.

Yep.

So. So you've decided to do this business. It's January 3rd. Your mom speaking to you yet?

She calls me a lot. To make sure I'm okay and eating. She would text people, you know, have you heard from Brent? Is he all right? Cry. Cried a lot. I mean, yeah, she was. She would just. And I remember. I remember it was like two months in, she was like, well, if you ever end up homeless, you can always come back home.

Yeah. And, well, this was foreign to them.

Yeah.

It wasn't something that people did that were probably in their circle.

Absolutely not.

And so, you know, one of the. One of the future. One of the indicators that somebody's going to have entrepreneurial success later in life is an early entrepreneurial experience. And most people get that from their family. They either they worked in the restaurant when they grew up, or they. Whatever the. You know, it was a. Whatever the service business or whatever it was. Dad was a plumber, and he had a small plumbing business. So they see that I had the same thing. My dad was. Early on, he was an engineer, so he worked for a company, and their annual trip was a fishing trip. So that really just triggered my love for fishing. So I got that. And then he started his own. With a partner, started his own little engineering shop and stuff like that. And while they weren't very successful in doing it and ultimately pretty unsuccessful. Spectacularly unsuccessful in doing it because he was an engineer, wasn't a sales guy, wasn't a business builder. You know, he would. He wanted to do the work. Right.

And.

But what I did see is I watched him seven days a week. Like, if something needed to be done, I remember going in there. He would sometimes put me. And, you know, we'd sit in a cube. So if they had clients coming in, there was bodies in the office to.

Make it look like there's people around.

I don't know if that's good or bad, but there'd be bodies in there. Right. But I would see that, and I just saw how hard he struggled to do everything that he could to make that business successful. So while it wasn't a great outcome for him, ultimately it was very important in my life. Showing me just, you know, just saying, hey, you know, you don't have to. You don't have to do what everybody else does.

Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then, so you're in that first year. Tell me about the first year. Your business.

Yeah. Training now is not what it was then. I'll tell you much. Yeah. So I go to Charlotte for I think about a week and a half and they put me on a crew with their labor pains crews at the time. And then they just say, hey, I hope it goes well. Call us if you need anything. And so that was it. And so we can edit that out.

Yeah, well, that was back in the day.

It's gotten a lot better.

Oh, good.

Yeah, let's put it. Franchisees now leave with significantly more training and a lot of help, which they would answer my calls.

Sure.

But. But I was still by myself there doing it. So, you know, I remember the story that I often tell to new franchisees now. My first house took me two days and it was a pea grid window cleaning house. We now as a business still do that home. And it takes a crew of two, about four hours.

Okay.

So my, my skill was just. I was slow. I was God, God awful slow. Wasn't very good at it. And we were just, we were just bootstrapping it, you know, I mean, I just, I remember printing off pieces of paper and going door to door and trying my best to drum up business. And yeah, man, it was just. It was. And then somehow we blew up. I really don't know how. It kind of got crazy. I remember I think I'd been in business for all of three months and we were booked out maybe six weeks at a time and we were just, you know, crazy booked out. And so I'm trying to scramble and make my first hires and hire people that I don't know how to train and don't know really how to be a resource to them or help them figure that out because I've barely been doing it myself. But we just made it work. And then I, you know, I remember I sent my first crew out in June by themselves and, and the person on that crew now actually works for home front brands. Dylan.

Oh, yeah.

So, you know, and, and they were just. That we were all just trying our best to make it.

Yeah.

And. But yeah, we, it was, it was a tough year. I mean, I remember Monday through Friday I worked sun up till sundown, and then I worked every Saturday and Sunday, Sunday I was getting the trucks ready because when the crew would show up Monday morning.

That's right.

We had so much to do. I couldn't wait. Yeah. And so, you know, and I didn't have anybody to help me do the back office stuff because there was no call center.

Right.

There was nothing going on. So I'd be on a ladder taking my own calls. Hey, this is Brent with labor pains. I'd write the name on my forearm and that they wanted a window cleaning and hope that I didn't sweat too much for it to disappear before I got down off the window. So it was this. And then I'd get, you know, I'd work in the daylight while I could, doing all that. And then at nighttime I'd go call them all and set them up for quotes. I do quotes from like 5 till 7 o' clock every night. And then. Yeah, it was, it was, it was a crazy.

And then the weekends is always catch up.

Yep.

It's like, whatever, you know, what are the issues that you, you, you collected during the week that need to be resolved? Maybe it's something with an employee or something like that. Let me review the results, get caught up on my bookkeeping, see if all the billing got out and all of that kind of stuff and really just set up the next week. Or do we need to order some supplies? Do we need to do all that?

Then we didn't have a marketing team either. So my weekend generally was my marketing strategy time too.

Okay.

And so I remember telling somebody like a couple days ago, we didn't have people to mail out cards for you at the time. So we'd go to like melissa.com and look up mailing routes and see that, you know, a186 has 817 houses. I'd count 817 cards on a Saturday night, Write the mailing route and a rubber band around it and hand it to the post office and say, I want this to go on this mail.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was. So I would, I would.

That's hungry.

Yeah. We'd make our own designs and find it and then count our own cards. And then I would. And then I would save up enough money to pay for like one or two routes at a time. So I couldn't afford 10,000 cars at one time.

Right.

So I would just kind of be like, all right, well, I've got $400 I can spend now. Let's do another mailing route. And I would just go out of time. So it was. So, yeah, weekends were trying to figure out what I could do, and most of the time it was stuff around those just bootstrap marketing. Generate more work. Yeah. Trying to generate business.

That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. And then, and then after that first year.

Yep.

What does your staff look like at the end of the first year?

So I hired my first assistant again before the call center, so somebody to take calls and emails. Yvonne. And then we had three guys plus me. So I was in and out of the field doing sales. Yes. I would run a three man crew on the days I was out of the field or we would run two crews and I'd be on a crew and two guys would go and I would take somebody else with me.

Yeah.

So based off the sales and how that week was going, either we'd run two trucks and I was on one, or I'd run a three man crew with. With just one truck.

Nice.

And that was through the second winter, which would be, I think that would be January, February of 2018, 2019.

Okay.

Yep.

Awesome. And then as the business scaled, what types of. How did you, how did you nourish yourself as an entrepreneur? Because the first thing that happens is, and generally, you know, the nice thing about most franchise companies is that there's an onboarding process and there's an education process. Sometimes because the expectations of franchise or are so high that people don't commit to it like you did.

Right.

You know, when you realize that if, you know, if it is to be. It's up to me, then you commit to it and you figure it out.

Yeah.

When a franchise brand looks really buttoned up, you know, sure, it's buttoned up, but you still as the business owner have to really commit and do all the hard things that it takes to make. Make sure the business runs.

Yeah.

And all of that. But at some point and I, I was this person multiple, multiple times. I mean, we would grow the business up to, I mean, early, for years, you know, we'd grow the business up to a million eight or a million nine. And then we would maybe lose an insurance account or off a program and we'd go back down to a million won or something like that in the first couple of years. And I was trying to figure out like, okay, I feel like we went backwards or when we would get, then we'd get up to another high level of a few million dollars or whatever it is. And then it just seemed like everything would fall apart. Then I look back and say, well, we don't have systems to accommodate that. Because the way that I was doing it was, I mean, literally when we had our first office here in the mid-90s, it was like a long galley. And my office was at the end and I had a sliding glass door. And then I had project managers and estimators in desks. And if I opened my door, I could hear everything that was going on and they could hear me. So when I would get on a phone call with an adjuster and we would say, they would learn just by listening to me how I dealt with the customers, how I handled things, and by osmosis. Yeah. You know, now that's not the best way to train people. It's not the most intentional way to train people, but in a lot of small businesses that's. Well, you're going to come out with me and listen to me talk to the customers. Now you do it.

Yeah.

So as you grew the business and in years two and three, how did you think about developing yourself as an entrepreneur? Because if I did the math right, you're 30.

I'd be 30 in a couple months.

Okay. So I was gonna add, you had your 30th birthday yet? It's coming up.

It's coming up.

So you're in your 20s, you're already the franchisee of a year of a national emerging but fast growing brand. You've got two businesses, maybe you have others. So, you know, how did you think about, what was your thinking that got you from where you were in that first year in business to where you are today?

Yeah, that's a great question. I'd say there's been two tensions to the business process the whole time that I've kind of. So the biggest part that has always made me feel like I got growth to do was I basically hired a lot of my friends. And so it really works.

Well when you hire everybody, that's just like you, right?

Yes. Well, when you hire. So, you know, to this day, Zach Killian in my wedding Mike, my general manager, one of my best friends, Corey Dylan Tyler, you know, all these guys, I mean, they're just my buddies and I want them to be successful.

Just loyalty matters.

Yeah.

And especially when you're in that scrum of small business, loyalty is important.

Yeah.

You don't need to be looking over your shoulder to see who's taken from you.

And so I feel obligated that, you know, they put in the work, they, they, I owe them their, their success and their money too. And so when, when, when I go to bed at nighttime, my general, one of my biggest worries is like, are they making enough money to take care of their families? Right. And so, you know, in 2018, we were all single and didn't have wives. And we'd sit on my back deck and drink beer. But now we're all married with wives and kids. And so I feel obligated. This tension now of like, are they growing their own personal wealth? So that, that I would say doesn't always work to hire your friends. But in my case, they, they treat this business like their own. And because of that, they work so hard, they take care of it. I feel obligated to make more money. So they make more money and then two, within a franchise system. Going back to the sports background, I hate people being better than me. And so I live on these weekly monthly calls of where are we? And so, you know, even today, I mean, people don't know this. I was just in for our regional window here meeting and I just got out of a feisty meeting because I want to be better than the other brand, you know, the other owners. And so, you know, I'm the second biggest window hero now. But at the time I was 8 or 9. And so it was, it was whoever was in front of me was what I, that, that was all I was focused on.

That's the target.

We would our Monday morning meetings and AJ at Lake Norman. You'll, you'll, you'll know this now. Cause I'd call you, I'd get on the phone, I'd be like, hey, how much revenue y' all got on the schedule? You got 17k. I'd have 15. I'd be like, guys, we need 18k on the week cause we gotta beat AJ. Like, that was the, that was our Monday morning meetings. It wasn't, let's limit the touch ups. Let's get better at these processes of our business. It was, we've got to catch aj. Like, that was our, that was our meeting. And I was like, how are we going to do that? And so, and even now, like when we meet, our team now has built that culture. Monday morning they walk in, they're like, hey boss, what do we need this week to catch Tyler? Like, that's, that's, that's the conversation at hand. And, and I don't really mean we have conversations around how to get better and be skilled more often, but the culture now is like, my team wants to beat you. Not, not because we think we're better, just because we're driven inside of a franchising system. I mean, everybody was, you know, played sports. We, we, we really want to be. We, we feel, we feel this like, no, we're going to, we're going to beat them. And, and that Was so those two things. I mean, even now, like, what drives me, I feel, you know, just talking about future brands coming down the way here and hearing the guys talk about how they're going to try to relaunch and rename, you know, one of the brands. And. And I. I said in the meeting, I was like, maybe I should start one to show y' all that it's not that hard. So it's like, you know, I was like, yeah, I'm trying to jab at them because I think that, you know, I think that it's. It's fun for me to. To get on a call and be like, hey, I beat you this week. And my. One of my numbers were better. And. But then on the flip side, when somebody calls me and they give me a little tasteball medicine, like, hey, my win percentage is better than yours, Boy, I'm fired up, you know.

Hey, well, like, where we in. In athletics?

Yep.

When you're in fifth or sixth grade.

Yep.

Talking smack. Oh, you're a bad sport. You get into high school, it ex. It go. It accelerates a little bit. You get into college. Come on, man. I mean, it's. It's. It's off the chain. And then the best things you hear, like, about the NFL and the NBA is when people are mic'd up. I mean, it's. It's constant.

Yeah.

I mean, walking by somebody at the free throw line, you know, they. I mean, one of the favorite things, like I watched. We watched the super bowl last night. Somebody drops a pass or whatever, there's at least three defenders that walking by just saying something. Hey, it was a nice catch. Yeah. Or something like that. So the higher that you get in competition, the more, you know, you've got to be. You got to be okay with that. Yeah. And. And it's. I mean, like, look. And there's always a line, right? And is it. Is it trying to help everybody get better or is it trying to motivate you or whatever it is. But, I mean, Larry Bird was the notorious. Apparently the best trash talker.

Kobe Bryant would learn languages to talk trash to somebody else. Another language. So if a Chinese player came over, he would learn how to talk trash to them in their language.

Oh, man.

So, yeah, I mean, there's a. Like you said, there's a line. Every single one of those guys know that we're competing against one another. But if time's really like, if you need something, you call me and I'm going to help you.

That's right.

And so.

So you have a heart for people. You want to take care of your team. You want to make sure that they're serving their families well.

Absolutely.

You're a great leader within the franchise network because you're always willing to help and you're. And you're willing to have. You know, one of the things is, if you're not willing to have critical, challenging conversations, you're not helping anybody get better. If you're not willing to. I mean, numbers don't lie. People do. So being able to. You know how painstakingly we're approaching the data project here at Homefront Brands just to get relative dashboards is, you know, and like, we've. We're going to continue to invest in that every year. It's going to continue to evolve and get better so that people know the levers to pull inside of their businesses. But what have you done? What have you done for you? What have you done to invest in your growth yourself so that as you're. Because part of your job as a business builder is you need to build a dream that's big enough for other people's dreams to fit inside of it.

Absolutely.

And that is charged to a business builder, an entrepreneur. Man, I take a lot of responsibility for the people that come to work here, and I know that you do as well. So how are you thinking about developing yourself so that you can create a bigger and bigger dream for these people.

To live inside of people that. Yeah. The people you put yourself around, I would say, kind of. Who. What. At least right now, what. I'm trying my best. And so I'm in, you know, a group called C12. I don't know if you know what that is or not, but Christian business owners, there's. I'm by far the smallest business in the group. One of the guys that owns the Columbia brand, there's a concrete company that's probably about a $30 million concrete company. So putting myself in those rooms, and then I would say, yeah, just. I make a lot of effort to be around a lot of other business owners that are pushing themselves, too. So, I mean, we do. I do monthly meetings with WindowHero and Top Rail owners from both brands. We've got weekly calls with all the owners from both brands, and I've got even small groups within that of people like who we hang out with and what we're doing. I am focused on sales, so I feel like probably the only place that I invest my personal time in is just kind of that craft. So whether it be listening to a podcast or reading or just trying to get better at that. So my own personal investment would probably be just trying to create. That's a skill set, whether people want it to be or not. It might be a personality to some degree, but it's a skill set. And so I see it as a craft that I'm trying my best to do. But yeah, and then outside of that, I mean just people, I think who I'm around is always trying to make me better. So even actively now trying to bring in Luke into the window here business, who's been so vital in watching Top Rail grow so much so we realize how much of an asset he was and what he brings to the table. And so trying to get him involved with our Window hero group, I mean it's just been a. Yeah. And I hang out with Todd and David a lot. I talk to Todd and David probably more than they'd like for me to call them. But Todd and I have a pretty standing every three day call at about 5:30 at night when we've made ourself a whiskey sour and we just, we kind of hash it out for about an hour here on things that were, you know, things that I need help with or trying to do better or I'm fired up about or David and I are, you know, the window here business has primarily been about 90 something percent residential. And we probably have a call every two or three days at this point trying to reframe and reshape the way we think about this thing and ideas.

That's where the growth is going to come from. It's going to come from the commercial services and the big projects and that. And some of our new offerings that we've got rolling out are inside of that brand also I think are going to get incremental growth for you.

So within my own business, my team doesn't really get, I don't really have a lot to do there. My goal within that is I've got to just keep them sharp. But outside of that my circle's pretty tight. And those people give me, you know, I get a lot of feedback of what's going well, what's not going well, what are we chasing after if that's a waste of time?

Right.

And how do we get better and what, how we narrow this in? Because I don't want to waste my time on calls and meetings and things that don't work. So yeah, that's a skill set that we're trying really hard to hone in.

Yeah. So there's a couple of other Groups that you might want to consider when you have the time. But Vistage is a group that is generally local to a market and they'll have ex executives that are there, they call them chairs and they will go out and get 13 to 16 other business owners and they'll put them in a group. I was in it for nine years. It was transformational for me. It's expensive. Vistage V I S T A G e and generally one chair will have a CEO group where it's all CEOs and then they'll have a key member group. So you could put. If I had a VP of sales or something like that, and I wanted them to get a similar experience to what I was getting, then I could put different key executives in those types of groups. But basically you get together once a month and they bring in education in the morning. So somebody will come in and they will talk on a topic. You know, the Culture Index is something that I got from Vistage. It's an assessment tool where you can assess all your people and learn how to work together. And also know that of the 19 profiles, there's all kinds of variations of what somebody's personality traits and types could be. But of the 19 profiles that they've put a name on, these two types of profiles are always going to be my best salespeople. You know, these profiles are going to be my operations people. These are going to be so like, you know, knowing that if there's a 76% correlation of success inside of a role, if you hire within the right profile now you're not guessing as to what that is. So that's an example of something that I learned from Vistage. And then in the afternoon, it's issue processing. So one or two people present on an issue. There's a process for working it. So you would come, you would talk to your chair and say, I'm having an issue with this and they'll develop it with you and then you bring it to the group and there's a. You know, and then people would give you share their experience inside of it.

So that's basically C12 by the way.

The same thing.

That's a very similar role. Yeah, we, we have a, we have a topic of a learning experience. We have issue time. We. Yeah, and each, and each. And then we do one business presents their numbers every time we poke in. So. And it's a full, you know, five, six hour day.

Yeah. That you're there sounds very similar. And then the second recommendation I would make for you would be something called EO Entrepreneurs Organization. Okay, it's Vern Harnish created EO and I don't know, there's 50,000 members or something. It's a pretty big organization, but it's a little broader. It's probably, it's. It's big business owners, but they can be from anywhere. But it's a global organization, so there's global type events and stuff. And that's when I got into a different version of it called YPL Young Presidents Organization. That's when I started realizing, oh my gosh, everybody in my chapter has sold a business. Everybody in there has done these things. These are. And you know, again, it just broadens your room and it normalizes things that you read about but you're not exposed to. So it's just the ability to put yourself in these different rooms with these different people to continually inform your thinking and your growth. And the younger you are, when you have exposure to all those things, it gives you more time in your career to craft these things in a way that's just right for you, you know, but you got to have this broad subset, this broad set of solutions. And then as you narrow it down and say, well, that's not a fit for me because I just did a little solo episode on. One of the things I've started talking to my kids about is as they get into business and as they go somewhere and they're looking at opportunities or partnerships or getting a job somewhere, I said, the first thing you need to understand about people is how do they make their money? And they would say, well, what do you mean by that? And I would say, well, you know, and then I. So I took a. I just had this thought this morning, you know, how do I answer that question? And I came up with five different ways people make their money. There's contributors who are generally maybe going to be an employee somewhere. You know, the people that you care about, I mean, they're contributors to your business, they're salespeople, they're this, they're that. But they're living, you know, low risk because they're. You're paying them, but yet can be very impactful, can grow huge inside of that role. People, those types of things, you can have that impact. Then there's transactors. So anybody who middles something is a transactor, right? So a realtor is a transactor. A business broker is a transactor, a stockbroker is a transactor. Anybody who just wants to get transactions flowing through something and then Extract a fee. Those people are transactors. And so they, maybe they don't care as much about quality. They don't have to care that much about people because other than the people on their team, if they. There are people on their team, when we're done with this transaction, then you're gone until you need to come back and buy another house or buy another stock or whatever it is. So there's the transactors, then there's the compounders. Right. Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world, both positive and negative. If you waste money every day, they say if you would have taken your Starbucks money and invested it in Microsoft.

Yeah.

You know, you would have $2 million at the end of your life.

Yeah.

Or whatever. So people that you can't save yourself into, you can't save your way into prosperity, but you can certainly invest 100 bucks a week or 100 bucks a month or whatever it is and let that compound interest grow. So in rental properties, I think fall into that. You know, you might make a little money every month, but over time they pay for the house, the house goes up in value.

Yeah.

I had a rental house In Boone I paid 62.5for and I think I figured out how much money I got of that over the course of my life was five to six hundred thousand dollars.

Yeah.

Just over owning it for 25 years. I did nothing.

Yeah.

You know, and I just, and I, and I didn't even pay the 62. 5 because it was owner financed. 100%.

That's crazy.

So my cash on cash return was infinity.

Yeah.

You know, so and then you've got creatives or creators, artists, musicians, those types of people. And then you've got the, so you know, the social media is really rewarded creators now YouTubers, Mr. Beast. Yeah, you know, he's those types of people. And then you got business builders who want to take all. And I think that's a real high order. Businesses are really a high class asset. So now you've got, okay, you gotta, you got people that generally. Now that, that includes people, that includes strategy. There's gonna be risk inside of that and all of that. So as I think about like, you know, and then people are going to be more than one. You know, you can be a creator, you could be a, you could be an artist or a musician and then also be a compounder where you're investing a little bit of your money along the way. Yeah. Or you own a couple of rental houses or you could, you know, so any little blend. But like you know, figuring out how you make your money is probably. And being declarative about it. I think there's some real work that people could do there because people kind of, I think people look around and say well, I want to be like that person or I want to be like that person or I want to be like that. And it's kind of messy, especially with social media now. There's examples. I do this, I do that, I do the other thing. But really understanding for who you want to be and also your time, you know, what are you willing to trade for? Because it's not all about money. It's not all about money at all. So like how, you know, how much. I mean I know a guy that's extraordinarily wealthy and all he did, he was a morehead scholar out of college. He's never worked anywhere. Yeah, he's just invested in his bedroom.

That's great.

And over time he just got really, really good at, you know, watching the numbers. And this one's going to go up, it's going to go down, I'll make just a little bit of money here. And then they're putting the, you know, creating this investment thesis but just focusing on it 8, 10, 12 hours a day and then geez, after about 15 years it's, you know, it's kind of bulletproof.

That's wild.

Yeah. So anyway, I don't know how I got off on that but, but for me I didn't have any of that real, you know, as I'm heads down building a business, what I needed this vistage or EO or YPO groups to do is to pull my head out of it and to give me that exposure to these other people. And I could say, oh man, that's a high level transactor right there. And they're making X dollars a year and I can just see how everything that they do is just to create more and more transactions that funnel across their thing and they table scrape every single one of them a little bit like it's a machine that doesn't fail. Oh, there's a, you know, I mean, Elon Musk, right. Well he, I think he ended up with $100 million out of PayPal and he just like, he pushed it all into SpaceX.

Yep.

And it was gone in months.

Yeah.

And he's just like, well I, I'm going to need some more money now. Yeah, how am I going to go do this? But anyway, that was a bit of a. You can cut all that out, by the way. We can just cut all that. That's where editing helps.

Yeah, There we go.

That's where editing. So. So there's that piece of it. So now you've got these two brands, you've got these businesses going. We appreciate your leadership at Homefront Brands and everything that you do for it. So now you're heading out. Speaking of broadening your circle, you're heading out to Phoenix to the International Franchise Association National Convention in Phoenix, Arizona. There's going to be 5,000 people there. You've been nominated for. And you are a finalist and Franchisee of the year. If we gave them more money, you might get it. You might get it anyway. I don't know. I don't know when we know. We probably know when you know, but.

I think I've been told already.

Really?

Yeah. Has that not been. Has that not been told?

Well, I know you're up there.

Yeah.

But, like, is there gonna be, like, a finalist? Finalist?

Yeah.

You think you've been told already?

Well, they. Well.

Well, don't tell me.

I'm not sure. We'll put the hints in the basket.

It's a huge honor.

Yeah.

For you to travel out there and to be nominated for this. So congratulations to that. How many days are you able to spend out there?

So we are. The conference is, I think, Saturday through Wednesday. My wife and I are gonna go down on Valentine's Day, go to the Grand Canyon.

Okay. So Valentine's Day is Wednesday.

Wednesday.

So you're going in early.

So we're gonna go two days in advance and spend a little time together, and then I'll go to the conference Saturday through Wednesday.

Okay.

Yeah.

Awesome. So you're. It's a whole week for you.

Yep.

Oh, well, fantastic. I'll be out there as well. What do you hope to get out of the event? Have you thought about it?

Yeah, I was just talking to your son about that in there because I feel like every conference I've ever been to, I've. You know, there's something I want my business to gain from it, like, actively here. Like, my market is something like it's a. It's a window cleaning conference or something to learn actively for my market. So this is different for me. There's not maybe an active, like, marketplace, you know, Greensboro, North Carolina thing to take away. So, you know, I'm a networker at heart. So I guess try to try to meet somebody that's farther ahead. Figured, like, done something that I'm trying to accomplish because, you know, right now your son was saying there's people there that own multiple brands and franchises. And that's what I'm currently trying to do is build multiple businesses and how they stack and how we share expenses and stuff. So I think that's my current thing that I want to get better at is owning multiple brands and businesses and stacking them. And this is. I'd love to meet somebody there on that. And then just how. Yeah, I think the commercial piece is a big thing for my. For my time right now and my energy of thought of building that. And so B2B sales is something that we've never really thought of a ton. So if I can, those are probably the two personal things that I've considered. Most of the thought was how do I build this and how do I stack them, and then how do we reshape the look of our current scope of work? But outside of that, I mean, I really have never done anything like this, so kind of keep an open mind. Like, I haven't committed to any of the sessions or anything yet because I don't know how overwhelming it might feel to go there and be around so many people, or if I meet somebody that tells me this particular thing might narrow in on something. Yeah. I'm trying my hardest to not. Not, like, go into too much of a. This is what I'm going to do. Right. So I don't miss out on anything. But, yeah, that's. I've never done anything like this. I'm a small. I'm a small country boy, so. Small town country boy. So going to Phoenix for a big national ownership brand. You know, thing is this. I don't think I've ever would have thought that I'd be doing that.

Well, we got Shaq. We got Dion Sanders going to be there.

Yep. So I got my prime time glasses ready.

Got your prime time glasses?

Yeah.

I was. I saw a. Well, I won't say that I. The. I'm excited. I hope to get a chance to meet Dion. I think I'm going to an event where he's going to be there. But the. You know, you. There's so much education there. A lot of it's for franchisors.

Yeah.

So, you know, you'll have to make the connection. If you're in a marketing thing, they're going to be saying, well, here's all the things that we've learned as a franchisor. But, like, those things do apply directly to you. So there's. There'll be lots of marketing breakouts. There'll be operational breakouts. You know, and so what, what are the things that the franchisors have learned or are doing that help? Franchisees.

Yeah.

So any of it you can apply to you as a multi brand franchisee. But I also think there's franchisee tracks that are there and lots of franchisees because I think we're 25% franchisees. Maybe.

Okay.

We'd like it to be more.

Yeah.

But there will be lots and lots of franchisees there for you to go. There'll be an exhibit hall with a thousand vendors in it.

Yeah.

Mainly again, looking to work with franchisors. But you know, if you, if you work that exhibit hall and you see something and you're like, you know, that would be really cool. Like you, you know the system as good or better than anybody because you're living in it, you're working in it. So if you walk that exhibit hall and you're like, man, I found this one vendor and it's brand new and they're doing this really cool thing, you know, bring it to David, bring it to Todd and say, you know, I think this would really help us the way that they did that. Because everything's changing. You have to be really open minded. Especially comes when it comes to data technology and customer acquisition.

Yeah.

Everything changes so fast now.

Yep.

And there will be. You think that you're going to go to a vendor exhibit and it's just. But there's always new people. Like this is where they will go to test their ideas. And there are always those gems inside of there.

Yeah.

That you have to find. So any, any, any footwork that you want to do. I'm looking for on behalf of the brand. The exhibit hall is usually open for several days and other than that, man, great parties. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Fran, Jam, just make sure you get with us because you're probably not on the list to get invited to some of these things. Things. But we've got all kinds, we got all kinds of, you know, invites coming in right now. All you need is a wristband to get into these things or not even, or just whatever. So.

Yeah.

Just make sure that, you know, we, we stay visible and connected out there.

Absolutely.

And you'll have a great, a great time. And I think it's great that your wife's going.

Yep.

Give her, I think, Phoenix. Nice. You know, there's a lot of nice stuff going on there.

Yeah, we, yeah. Look forward to it. She's going to be overwhelmed. This is not her world.

But so will she go around with you and do the business stuff or will she be like, I'm going to the spa and I'll see you at 5 o'? Clock?

She's going to stick around Saturday and Sunday for the dinners and the meeting of people and kind of that thing. And then she's going to head out. And Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I'll put my head down and be in all the. All the meetings.

What's the event around the Franchisee of the Year thing? That's a. I know. It's a presentation, like 90 minutes. Is there a dinner with that?

It's a dinner, yeah.

Okay. That's the dinner, too, right?

Yeah.

And that's Saturday.

Saturday.

Saturday night.

Yeah. I. I'm pretty sure I got an email on my inbox right now that says, congratulations for being IFA Owner of the Year. Not sure that can be in this video, but.

Well, this won't get out before we.

Go, so I'm pretty sure.

Are you sure?

I. I need to ask Carrie because I got an email in here that says, congratulations for being the IFA Owner of the Year.

Oh, my gosh. Are you sure it's the. Not one of the. No, because if it says one of the. Pull that puppy up.

Yeah.

Oh, I got goosebumps. That would be so awesome.

Yeah, I'm about to look right now.

How do you do, speaking in front of 5,000 people? Well, I don't think they get you out there.

It says that I should prepare a speech. I think that, like, I'm told I.

Should have pull that up. I will wait.

Yeah.

Are you kidding me?

No, I have it from Carrie. She sent it to me. Yeah. Congratulations again. Super excited for you. And then it says, IFA franchise. Pleasure to. Your nominee. Brent is the winner. It tells me I'm not nominated.

I'm reading it slow.

Yeah.

It's my pleasure to know if a nominee. Brent Chapman has been selected as 2000. Holy cow.

Heck, yeah.

Sweet. Congratulations, man.

I. I wasn't sure I was allowed to announce this or not.

Well, we're not. We're not. This will be. This will be after. Oh, I can't. I can't believe it, man.

Yeah.

That's unbelievable.

So that's. So my wife wasn't going to go. We made the change so she could. They literally were like, we want your wife to be there. They gave us a free ticket for her to come and told us to dress nice and not miss the dinner.

Oh, man.

And to have a speech ready. So I don't know. Yeah.

Okay. What, Brent, what are you gonna say?

This is. I guess you have to be there to find out.

This is impactful. Okay. Well.

Yeah. Jeff finding out for the first time right here.

Yeah.

Big news.

I'm. It's probably in my inbox, too.

Yeah.

So January 10th, though.

Yeah, I got that a while. Well, they sent it to Kerry and Carrie and David waited to tell me.

Okay.

So I got on a call. I got like a. I got a text at like 8am and was like, hey, we need you to jump on an emergency call. And I think something's wrong. And they, like, that's when they tell me, like, we want your wife to come to Phoenix.

So congratulations. That's a huge deal.

That's a big deal.

It's a big deal. Yeah, It's a big deal out there. Yeah.

I'm pretty.

You're gonna be walking around pimping, get you a cape and a big hat. I bought a new suit of the year.

Yeah, I bought a new suit. I'm gonna be looking good. I got a haircut just for this.

Wow. Wow.

Yeah.

Awesome. Well, congratulations, man. I appreciate that.

Appreciate it.

Thank you. So we're probably taking up enough of your time here. We're heading towards the end. I would like to ask you a question, though. If you could. If you had one sentence that could make an impact in somebody else's life, what might that be?

Yeah, probably. Probably People matter. Probably something to do with People matter. Everybody you become in contact with. I mean, I just. Your staff, your clients, your family. Yeah. When you're thinking about what you're doing, people matter. So I'd have to think maybe longer if I want to change that. But right now, that's what I go to bed at nighttime worried about every night. My wife taken care of. My employees taken care of. Are my clients feeling taken care of? Are we meeting the needs if our doors close tomorrow? I think I told you that before. If window Hero Greensboro's door is closed, will there be a void that was open that people would be like, where'd they go? Where they just go somewhere else and never, never think anything about it. And I truly think that if we closed our doors, there'd be a lot of. There'd be a lot of people that would be wondering, where did windowhero go? And that's what we're trying to build. So, yeah, people matter.

Awesome. So anybody in Greensboro or surrounding markets would go to windowhero.com be the best place to go and schedule with you. Yep.

And toprail fence dot com.

Toprail fence dot com. So on the home front. We have had Brent Chapman, franchisee of Window her and Top Earl France, Home front Brands, franchisee of the year. And now, apparently unofficially, International Franchise association national franchisee of the Year, Brent Chapman. Thanks for being on the home front.

It's a pleasure being here, Jeff.

All right, thanks, everybody for listening out there, and we will talk to you soon.