Dave Alpern: The Joe Gibbs Racing Story | On The Homefront with Jeff Dudan #74

Dave Alpern, welcome to the home front. It's nice to see you.

Thanks for having me, Jeff.

I'm looking Forward to it 100%. Dave Alpern, President of Joe Gibbs Racing, longtime family friend. And I've known you kind of through the Gibbs family for, I don't know, I don't know. The last time I saw you, probably in person, was in Vail on a.

Ski trip in Colorado. That's right. We have a few of these sacred traditions with the Alperns and the Gibbs, and that was. That's been. One of them is going skiing. So we love that dearly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, Dave, let's just start by going back to how you grew up. Who is Dave Alpert?

Yeah. So, interestingly, I had what to me, I think to every kid, their childhood's normal because they don't know any different. I had two older sisters, so I kind of was the baby of the family. My parents got divorced when I was eight. But to me, that was not abnormal because that was just my reality. It just meant I got two Christmases. And I remember thinking of it that way. My dad was gone a lot, and interestingly, I didn't know until I was in high school where my dad worked. He just told me and my sisters I work at the Pentagon. So I, you know, I was born in Frankfurt, Germany. One of my sisters was born in Thailand, and my dad was kind of all over the world. And on the occasion we'd go to Washington, we'd drive by the Pentagon. I'd go, that's where my dad works. Well, it turned out that wasn't where my dad worked. He probably went there once in a while. But, yeah, so I found out in high school, my dad had worked for the CIA, and he retired and kind of started his own firm. But, yeah, no, I mean, I had. Again, to me, maybe that isn't a normal childhood, but it was. And, you know, went into high school, but I always. Interesting. I feel like every. I kind of think of life as a book, and often there are pages and even entire chapters that don't go the way we would have written them if we were writing it. There's an author of our book, and it's not us. And each of my chapters started off completely different than I would have written it. And often not. Not really not good. Let's just say that. So, again, whether it was high school, college, even my career didn't really start off the way that I had hoped. But all that to say, I think that's what makes us who we are is, you know, you don't. You can't tear pages out. The pages are preparing you for a later chapter. But sometimes when you're in them, you know, they're tough. And so, you know, I went into high school. I was the smallest kid in a high school of about 3,000 people. I was a late, A late bloomer. I actually, people have maybe heard me tell this story. I got stuffed in a trash can my first week of school. And you see that stuff on movies and you're like, that stuff doesn't happen. Oh, yeah, it happens. I actually got a guy, you know, stuffed me in a trash can. And that was like my start to high school. And I'm thinking, all right, this is.

Not head first or feet first.

No, it was actually butt first. He kind of folded, kind of stuffed me down, and I wedged my way out and could be worse, it made for some good stories, but. And so, you know, again, each chapter of my life, I ended up kind of getting in my fourth choice at college, not where I wanted to go. And then even my career here, which we'll talk about, did not start. You know, it was kind of one of those. I felt like a failure, so. But I think God was preparing me in each of those stages for the next thing. And that's how life works for everybody.

That's right. Did you have brothers and sisters growing up?

Yeah, so I had two older sisters, three and six years older than me. And again, a lot of love in my house. I was the baby, the only boy, but always felt this inherent pressure as the only son because my dad, I had mentioned, you know, my dad was this. He's a tough act to follow. Again, I mentioned, he worked for the CIA, spoke multiple languages. Brilliant. He was like a concert level pianist. He was a gourmet chef.

What was his nationality?

No, interesting. He was Russian. So my grandfather, my father's father had defected from Russia to the United States, which is interesting that my dad ended up getting into the CIA. So we are. It's funny on ancestry.

Well, I don't think it's interesting. I don't think it's a coincidence. Yeah, that's probably right.

On my mom's side on ancestry, you can go back to the 1500s. My dad's side, like ends with my grandfather because there's not a lot of records in the Soviet Union.

Did he grow up in a Russian speaking home?

No, no. My grandfather moved to the United States and had my dad here. Lived in Manhattan. He was a physician Lived in Central Park. My grandfather did, interestingly, Jewish. So I am of Jewish heritage. My father was raised Jewish. My father and my grandfather Jewish. New York on that side. And then my mother was kind of were from Boston. Boston Protestant. So an interesting mix. But yeah. So that was kind of my family. My family heritage. But all that to say, my dad, as the only son, I always felt this. You know, every son wants to make their dad proud. And so for me, I was the only son. I was like, man, there's just a lot of pressure, which goes back to. That's why with each stage, I always felt like I was disappointing my dad. Like, there was just not that he necessarily made me feel like that. It's just each time I was like, I wish I was a better athlete, or, I wish I was smarter. I wish I got a better job out of college. And it was always, what's my dad gonna think? And I know a lot of men probably can relate to that.

Absolutely. And you suffered from Tourette's.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So I. So Tourette's syndrome, I got diagnosed with that in high school. And, you know, for those who don't know what that is, it's a neurological disorder that is. It gives you sort of uncontrolled tics, which can be both verbal, muscular. Fortunately, I had a fairly mild case. It wasn't mild to me, but you sometimes see shows and things that people tend to make a little fun of it. Like, people sometimes have uncontrollable profanities that they yell, which is bizarre. But fortunately, I never had any of that. Although I could make that as an excuse if I ever wanted to do that. And interestingly, the symptoms were their worst in high school and college. They have gotten better as I've gotten older. But high school and college is not really when you want your symptoms to be the worst. So, again, dealing with, you know, being a little bit of a late bloomer, having Tourette's, you know, a lethal combination when you're trying to meet girls or make friends or things like that. So I think it made me resilient. And speaking of my Tourette's, honestly, that was one of the things that. When I met my wife, Stacy, we dated in college, and I was a sophomore, she was a freshman. And her. The fact that she did her, not the Tourette's, not bothering her was kind of when I knew this girl's special. Like, I remember asking her about it on one of our first dates, and she just said, I barely notice it. It's just you. It's. You know, and so. But again, it's hard not to have a complex about that. And I'm still very aware of it, even today when I'm meeting with someone. And, you know that if I have an eye twitch or something, that they're probably wondering what's going on with me. But I really don't. I don't talk about it a lot, and I'm glad. I appreciate you asking about it. I've actually been asked to speak at some different conferences, and I'm really hesitant to go, because when you have Tourette's, you don't want to be around other people because you mimic different symptoms. And I don't want to walk in and walk away with a bunch of new tics that I didn't have before. So that's probably a selfish thing to say.

What an interesting conference that would be.

Oh, gosh. Yeah. So all that to say. Yeah, no, that's. But again, all going back to. We talked about chapters. Those are pages I wouldn't rip out of my book. I would have at the time. And I had a lot of, you know, even before I would consider myself a person of faith, I wrestled with the God that I didn't even know at the time, going, what's the deal? What are you doing? Like, take this away from me, because I had a lot of sleepless nights trying to fall asleep, but having my tics being so bad that I, you know, I'm sweating and I can't sleep, and I'm like, what is. What is the matter with me? So all that, you know, kind of made me who I. Who I am today.

You've written a great book. Taking the Lead. Take the Lead.

Yeah. Taking the lead.

Taking the lead.

I appreciate that.

And in the book, you reference meeting JD Gibbs, becoming friends while Coach Gibbs was coaching Washington. You obviously grew up there, and you were. You would play football in the yard.

Yeah.

And Coach Gibbs recognized and singled you out as saying how competitive you were.

Yeah.

So for somebody that was 85 pounds going into high school, getting stuffed in a trash can. But yet you competed.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's. I. I have vivid memories of being a freshman in high school, and we'd be out at recess, and we were playing flag football, and I actually was really fast, and I could catch good, but no one would give me the ball because I looked like I was 12. And so I would just. Honestly, I remember being in the huddle just begging for the ball, and then they would never throw it to me. And it bothered me so much. But I met jd. I actually met JD in seventh grade. True story. JD Spent the night at my house the week that his dad had just gone 05 in his first season. And I was like, well, it's been nice knowing you, because you're going to get run out of town here. Your dad stinks. And so I remember that. But, yeah, going through high school, we kind of became friends. I got my growth spurt in, you know, my junior senior year again, I'm still not big, but I kind of caught up to everybody. And J.D. kind of. Yeah, just. J.D. had this thing about he would actually sit at different tables in the cafeteria because he knew how much influence he had. He would pop down and he'd go, hey, what's your name? My name's J.D. gibson. They're like, I know who you are. I mean, you're the quarterback of the football team. Your dad's the coach of the Redskins. And JD really recognized the power of influence. And I think I was one of those people. That's how I know, because he. He befriended me again. We had met in seventh grade, but we became better friends. And in high school. And, yeah, we'd have. We'd have some sort of flag football battles or even tackle football in the yard. And, yeah, I mean, again, I go back to when you have Tourette's and you've been stuffed in a trash can, you get a little scrappy. And I would take that out if I ever had the chance, whether it was football or playing baseball or whatever. But again, never. Never. Honestly, one of my biggest regrets is I never tried out for a high school sport. I played lacrosse in a rec league, but I just. It was like. I don't know, it was just a fear of, like, hey, I'm so small. These guys are going to run me off the place. I'm not even going to bother. And I do regret that I didn't. That I didn't do that.

3,000 students, it's a big high school. There are cuts on those teams.

There are. And actually, the receivers, which is what I would have played, were all met. I mean, they were studs. And so, like, hey, Skaggs and Brooks, I'm going. Going to try out for one of your spot. I mean, I would have got laughed out of the place. So maybe it was a good decision. But honestly, if I could go back, like, running out on a Friday night on a high school football team, it's like the one thing I wish I could have experienced in high school for sure.

Well, you can still do it. You, you might be escorted off the press.

Yeah, that is true. That's a good point. That's a good point. I would have been good. Yeah.

You went to school at George Mason.

Yep, I did.

And you started in electrical engineering.

Big mistake.

How'd that go?

Not too well. So my dad was an electrical engineer. I actually did really well on my SATs in math. And I tell students this all the time. Had I taken a 15 minute personality profile, it would have said, you're going to be a horrible engineer.

Do you have a profile that you like or that you use?

I have some now. I mean, whether it's Myers Briggs or just different aptitude says, yeah, I'm an enfj, but had I taken any of those? Just my aptitude was not. And it shows. Just because you're good at something doesn't mean that's what you were wired to do. And I got into engineering and I knew the first week I had made a mistake. And I toughed it out for one year and then I switched my major to communications with the hopes of being a broadcast journalist. And obviously I failed at that too. I am not a sports center anchor, which is what I wanted to be, but I started off as engineering again. Going down this path, I need to make my dad proud. My dad thought, well, you're going to be an engineer just like me. Look how good you did on your math SATs. So I thought, okay, I'll do that. And just wasn't. And I remember changing majors. I remember dreading calling my dad, telling him, and he was like, well, you're never going to get a job. And I mean, it just was this like, you know, disappointment after disappointment for me that I thought, you know, with my dad that now I'm going to be a communication major. I will say I had a lot less homework. It was awesome. I switched and I went, this is awesome. I can, I can actually have a life and play intramurals. And about that time, I joined a fraternity, which is interesting because I don't drink. And I was terrified of being a pledge. And so a fraternity came to campus the summer after my freshman year. So I had a chance to be a founding father, which means the pledges had to, in future years, had to memorize our names, but I didn't have to be a pledge. That was the only reason I picked it because I didn't want to get tormented and made to drink. But so all that to say, and I ended up college, ended up being a wonderful Experience. But it started off, I would say the first year of college, to that point in my life, was the worst year of my life, because in a major that I was lost in, I was living off campus with guys that weren't even students. All my friends had gone off to what I thought were real. You know, you're supposed to go away for college. Well, George Mason was in my hometown, so I'm living 10 minutes from my parents, okay, in an apartment with guys that aren't even at school because I didn't have any friends that went there. Taking a major I'm terrible at. And I was lost. And I was. I was. I was. I was angry. I felt like such a failure. I really did. And how did you meet your wife? Well, so the summer after my freshman year, I've now changed majors. I've started this process of chartering a fraternity with people that I got put together with. We're doing it over the summer to prepare for the fall. And I worked at a surf shop at a mall up in Northern Virginia. I grew up loving to surf. I go to the east coast and I was working at a surf shop, and I had my hat backwards working behind the skate counter. And a family walks in and they're all gussied up, and it turns out they're going to get a family portrait at the JC Penney right next door. So my wife comes in with big, blonde, 80s hair, and she's beautiful. And I see her, and I walk up to the guy she's with, and I go, is that your sister or your girlfriend? And he said, that's my sister. And I was like, we need to talk. And so I asked him, what?

Tell me you and I are going.

To be friends and you're going to.

Help me get to know her.

Tell me what the deal is with her. And he said, she's about to be a freshman in two weeks at George Mason. And I went, I'm a sophomore at George Mason. So I beeline it to her and I introduce myself. And, you know, this is. Again, this is like 1988. So there's no. You're not exchanging digits, right? And it was like, hey, I'll see you around, and hopefully I'll see you on campus. First day of class, I walk in, and it's a class in a big auditorium, and she's sitting right there. So I plop right next to her, and I go, hey, remember me? And we talked on a bench. And I remember. I immediately just wanted to share. I was kind of a new Christian. And I wanted to tell her about my faith because I didn't know where she stood. And she said she went home to her mom and said, I think I met the guy I want to marry. Like, she said that right after we.

Sat on the bench first day, freshman year. You didn't even let her hit the market.

I did not. Took her off the market. And we ended up dating all through high school or all through college. And then her dad made it clear, you kind of need to have a job before I'm going to give you my blessing.

Sure.

So that's what put the pressure on me after college to, you know, to make something work so I could get married. So we ended up dating about five plus years because we were. She was only 17 when I met and when we met. And so it was. Anyway, yeah, it was college. College was a lot of fun after that. Again, it took a big turnaround. But it goes back to when you're. When you're in life, when you're in a bad chapter of your life, you wish you could look ahead. If I could have looked ahead to the end of college, I would have gone, all right, I'm good. I'll deal with this. But you don't know. And so you have to trust that God is preparing you in every one of those awful pages and even entire chapters. Sometimes that stinks. He's preparing you for something after that. And for me, it was. It was no different.

Well, all storms end. And they do. Sun always comes up.

And great captains are not born on calm seas. That's right. Saying, you know, I mean, there are no. You got to go through some storms to become a great captain. And that's, you know, I've had, you know, I've had. I've had a few.

You developed a great friendship with J.D. gibbs during high school, and he went to William and Mary.

He did.

To play quarterback. And you maintained contact with him during your college time.

We actually grew closer during college because even though we went to different schools, there was a group of us that had all started our faith journey with this ministry called Young Life.

Yes.

And our Young Life leader, Rick Beckwith, who, by the way, I still talk to, he still mentor. We have a text chain called Band of brothers, and there's 11 of us on there. There were 12. JD was on it as well. And we're all life friends from high school, and our two Young Life leaders are on it. And so we all went to different schools, but in the summer, our leaders would have summer fellowship, and we'd all get together and do we just meet and we do Bible studies and stuff and jd. So I actually got closer to JD in the summers through those summer fellowships with these, with this band of brothers. And we realized as we went off and made friends at college, those were great, but these were the ones that we were like, these friendships are going to last. Like these, these are different because we all had this life experience together in high school and, and yeah, so through high school and then JD started to date Melissa. Yes. And crazy story, I went to fifth and sixth grade with Melissa Gibbs. I knew Melissa before she knew jd, before I knew jd, we were, we shared a bus stop together. So she ended up moving to South Carolina and through a different set of circumstances, they reconnected and they, they started dating. But so, so instantly JD's girlfriend is a great friend of mine, like my little, like my sister, and became, she became best friends with my wife, you know, my girlfriend at the time. So again, God put, put us together in this unique way. And so in the summer we would do stuff and we would go to the lake and do different things and obviously we'd keep up during the, during the school year as well. But yeah, we made really good friends through college.

It was during this time when Coach Gibbs decided that he wanted to start a race game. And he was still coaching. He was, yeah, in the NFL. Why did he decide to start? Why did Joe Gibbs decide to start?

Joe Gibson wanted to do something with his boys, and he didn't think coaching was the right lifestyle. He'd seen how hard it is and how, you know, he slept at the office three nights a week and he thought auto racing, they all loved. You know, Coach tells the story all the time. The kids were always racing something. Jet skis, go karts, motorcycles. And it was just, you know, he decided, hey, let's, let's pray about this. And if, if we can find a sponsor and maybe get a crazy driver that's crazy enough to want to come start with a start, you know, a team, a startup team. We'll do it. And goes and meets with this guy. Norm Miller from Interstate Batteries, says, I have. Coach tells the dream on a sheet of paper story all the time. It was a dream on a sheet of paper. Norm said, we're going to do it. Dale Jarrett, driver who's now in the hall of Fame, says, yeah, I'll take a shot. And it was a God thing. Coach starts this team, 15 employees right down the road in a little, little shop, and I have no idea what NASCAR is. But JD Was on the, he was on the five year plan with football and I had finished college before him and they needed some cheap labor basically to run stuff between Redskins park and this new fledgling race shop down here. And I was a trusted person that they figured, hey, do this for a few months and then you can go do what you're going to do. And that's what I thought. I thought I would help out for six months and it would look good on my resume and then I'd get a job with a TV station being a sports anchor. And 32 years later, they haven't got rid of me yet. I'm still here. But I, yeah, I. And interestingly that led. So the first few months I lived in my parents house. So I graduate college, I'm living in my parents house running errands basically for Coach Gibbs. I do remember driving in their Chevy Blazer and it had a bag phone in it. It was like the first cell phone. And I remember a coach called me on it one time and I was like, I've made it big man. I am in Joe Gibbs car talking to him on a phone in a car like it was crazy. People are listening, going, they didn't have those then. They didn't. It was a big deal then. But so that was how I got my start. And again my motivation was I would like this or something to turn into a gig because I want to, I'd love to get married. And you know, I had explicit instructions that that was not going to happen until I actually had a job.

Did it have to be a paying job?

That is a good question. It started off not as a paying job for sure because interestingly they, they said, hey, can you move to Charlotte? We can't pay you for, you know, the first six months. So I came to Charlotte and I remember, I mean I remember telling my wife, I just think everything Coach touches turns to goal. I've got a feeling this is the right thing to do. I'm going to go down there and. And I, I come down to Charlotte and I. There wasn't even a room at the apartment that J.D. and another guy, Todd lived in. And so I alternated floors. I would sleep on their floors. One week with Todd, one week with JD and, and that was kind of. And they didn't have anywhere to put me. So they emptied out this. My broom closet story. But it is true, they emptied a broom closet out and I had one of those elementary school desks where the tops attached to the bottom and you know In a closet. There's no electrical outlets, so I had an extension cord that was plugged into a lamp. And there's no computer. Like this is early 90s, so like, I mean, you know, people aren't, there's no email. Like, email isn't even a thing yet. So I had a spiral notebook, a lamp. I had a phone that went all the way out to the receptionist desk and I had zero job description. I had no idea what I was doing. And I was, I would book hotel rooms with no Internet calling 1, 800 numbers, I would put stickers on cars, I did whatever. And that was sort of how I came down and got my start. But going back to the chapters, not starting the way you think they're going to start in life. You can imagine me, the son of this high achieving guy, I'm in a garage in Charlotte getting not paid, working for a auto racing team, thinking, you know, how proud my dad must be. Not really of this. You know, I paid for college for you to do this. And you know, it really, again, it was, it was as unglamorous a start as you could ever imagine. And I didn't know, I mean, we had 15 people. I thought that's what NASCAR would be forever. I just figured, you know, and I'm thinking, is this going to sustain? I mean, am I going to be able to get married and do all this? And so it ended up turning out okay. But, but it really was a, it was as rough a start as you could have. And I tell that to students all the time. I'm like, hey, relax. I know it's a stressful time of your life. You may not think you've got it all figured out. I certainly didn't have it all figured out. And God's, God's preparing you. Wherever you are now, be great at wherever he has. You kind of bloom where you're planted and you're being prepared for something else. That, that, that may be a lot better than what you're doing now, but don't lose what you're being taught wherever you are now. And that was, the thing is like, it's easy to look ahead and go, I don't want to do this. Well, be great at. Even if it's crappy, be great at it. And then that'll better prepare you for the next thing. And that's kind of what I tried to tell myself, like deliver, you know, if you can deliver more value than you're paid, you'll always have a job. When you're an unpaid Intern. That's a really low bar.

Yes.

You have to be like one notch above moron and then you're delivering more value than. So I was like, if I could just earn my keep around here. And I will say this, it became evident early on to me that the who is more important than the what. And what I mean by that is who I was doing it with. I was working for like my hero in Joe Gibbs and with the guy I admired the most as a peer, jd. We could have been selling coat hangers and it didn't matter. Like, I loved who I was with. And so even if you're in a decision point in your career, if you're ever faced with a choice, and one choice is I can do exactly what I want, but the who is a little questionable. Well, the who isn't going to change. So your other choices. I really admire this company or these people. It may not be doing exactly what I want to do. In my opinion, go with the who. Because the who is way more important than the what. Because the what's going to change. I'm a perfect example. My what changed, you know, year after year.

Yeah, that's great experience to share. Nothing happens in a business until somebody sells something.

Yeah.

Coach Gibbs went out and got the foundational sponsorship deal with Interstate. Yeah, Battery.

Yeah.

Who was gave some level of income. Probably not a lot, but enough to turn the lights on, get a car on the track, get those first 15 people. And then you realized, or it just was what needed to happen, that you had an affinity for sales and marketing, so you fell into licensing and building relationships and creating collaborations around T shirts and then ultimately sponsorships.

Well, interestingly, it goes back to the delivering value. Like I thought I'd like to earn my keep around here. And if I could learn a skill that nobody else has, that could create income.

Right.

It's a no brainer. They gotta keep me. And I kind of figured out how to screen print T shirts and I went and got T shirts. And so keep in mind this, the first year I was there, coach was still coaching in Washington.

Right.

So I got T shirts printed that said Joe Gibbs Racing. Because interestingly, at RFK Stadium where they played at the time, Joe was revered. Like, people who aren't from Washington don't understand. Like Washington people don't agree on anything except the football team. Like the football team, when they were good, brought the city together. And Joe would walk into restaurants and get standing ovations. And so I thought, his name's not on anything. If we Sold Joe Gibbs Racing. They don't need to even care about racing at rfk. People are going to love it because it says Joe Gibbs on it. So I made T shirts. I remember getting the name of the buyer there. I got the guy, he said, I'll take him on consignment. I had no idea what consignment was, but I was like, absolutely. And it's funny, he said, give me a P.O. i didn't know what a P.O. was, but I'm like, I'll get you one. And I made a delay. I had to drive them up in my car, boxes of like, I think it was 96 pieces of shirts and set up a display in RFK Stadium. And the T shirt sold. And it was like that. I was in business. I was now in the T shirt business. And then that led to figuring out how to do product licensing. I would call whoever would answer my call. I called major league baseball properties, NFL, even went to New York and met with whoever would meet with me to learn how does this work? How do you, how do you go get hats made, how do you get toys made? And I became sort of the T shirt guy. And honestly, the first decade of my career, that was my wheelhouse, was the licensed merchandise. And again, the sport started to grow. We ended up getting Tony Stewart who was one of the top selling guys. And now all of a sudden we're, you know, I mean, it's a seven figure revenue generator for Joe Gives Racing. It became a big deal over that decade, not because of me. I was in it at the right time, but it was me finding a niche and trying to create value for Joe Gibbs Racing. But like everything I'd say most people we after about after a few years of that, I loved it. But I kept thinking, well, I could do more than this. I'm not appreciated properly. I'm tired of being called the T shirt guy. I was made for more than this. And you sort of, you know, I have a prayer journal that's kind of a complaint journal really. And I would talk about how, you know, you know, coach always refers to me as the T shirt guy. And they started insulting me, like, is that all you think of me? I give a lot of advice and I have more value than just the T shirt guy. And you can insert whatever that is for most people. They think they can do more or they aspire for more. And again, it goes back to God was preparing me with that for something else. But while I was in that, all I could think of was, well, what's the next thing. What's the next thing? And so that is how I got my start. But after time I wanted to do more. I felt like I was, you know, like there was more in the, in the company that I wanted to work on than just, than just that. And eventually that, that happened.

Growing Joe Gibbs Racing from 15 employees to now roughly 500. What have you learned about building a great culture in a competitive landscape while you have competing teams under the same roof, which is a huge management challenge which I didn't fully appreciate until I was reading your book and realized, huh, you've got type A high performing, everybody wants to win. You're on the same team, but you're competing against one another and you're all living under the same roof.

Yeah, to my knowledge, we're the only in motorsports, we're the only professional teams that compete against each other every week. And your dynamic's exactly right. And so for your, for your listeners. So think about this. Anyone listening that has multiple kids. So think about your kids competing in something every week. It's kind of chaos and you usually default to whoever does the worst. So it's not just the drivers. So every Saturday and every Sunday in those two races, we have four drivers competing against each other. But keep in mind the pit crews that pit the car, these are all former D1 elite athletes. So they compete in the building to get a spot on one of those elite crews. And then once they make it, they're competing against each other side by side on Sunday to win. And then how do you get them all back in the shop and not want to beat the crap out of each other and recognize that we're all one team? And so it does go back to creating a culture. And culture for any company comes down to it's the behavior of its leaders. And it starts with the person at the top. It starts with coach. And I actually describe our culture at Joe Gibbs racing as a three legged stool honor. God put people first and relentlessly pursue winning. It's easy as a sports team or really any business to focus on the stool of relentlessly pursuing winning. I'd be lying if I said we don't get out of whack sometimes. I believe that honoring God and valuing people, that winning is a byproduct of that. But when you lose sight of that and you just focus on the winning, sometimes it's the stool gets out of balance. But I think that's been our secret sauce is starting with coach honor. God value people first before profits. But there's also the relentless pursuit of winning means you got to care, you got to work hard, you know, Coach slept at the office. I mean, this has to be. It's not going to magically happen. You got to outwork everybody. And. But. And I think all of that really is a mandate. I mean, we're called. I mean, that's biblical. It's do everything you do unto the Lord. Like, you need to be great at what you do. If we were the 12th best race team, you wouldn't be having. I wouldn't be doing this podcast. We would have no influence because no one would care what we think. That's, again, one of my Dave Isms is no one cares what you think. If you stink, if you stink at what you do, you have no influence because no one cares. And that's even like, if you're a new worker and you just got a job somewhere, if you're getting in late, leaving early, gossiping behind people's backs, no one's going to care. They're not going to want to be like they're. I don't want to be like that guy.

That's right.

You know, so you want to be the person that everyone's looking at. Like JD Was to me in high school. I was like, what is different about him? That guy, the way he treats people, the way he goes after stuff, There is something different. And I didn't know what it was until I came to Faith and said, that's what it is. And J.D. but that's how we're to be in whatever we do. If you're. I don't care if you're in a cubicle, working on spreadsheets all day, interacting with one person, you know, you're influencing that one person. And the way you go about your business and you treat that person is where you get your influence. So all that to say that starts with Coach here and how we treat people, how we go about our business, it's all part of our culture. But that doesn't make what I'm talking about easy. I mean, the fact that we're competing with each other, it is difficult. I'll maybe just finish with this idea. This happens all the time. I mean, just last month, you had one car dominated the race at Richmond. 5, 10 laps to go, another car kind of races him a little rough on a restart, gets past him, and he wins. So as Joe Gibbs Racing, we still won, but you had one crew celebrating going to victory lane. One crew's throwing stuff on the ground, wants to Beat the crap out of the other crew. That's right. So then as a leader, do you go to victory lane and celebrate? Do you go comfort the people that like? And you're faced with that every week because someone's mad, someone's happy, maybe everyone's mad. And that's. And again, I think people listening maybe have companies that have interesting dynamics as well. But it all starts with the culture of the leaders. And are you promoting people to be at each other's throat, or are you promoting one team? And that's a big deal for us.

One thing about Coach Gibbs is, regardless of whether it's super bowl or winning the Daytona 500, he celebrates for about five minutes, you are telling me, and then he says, let's get back to work. And what's the Monday meeting going to be like? And all of that is. Is that a mechanism that helps put things behind because he's the leader and he's setting the tone. So he's going to shake your hand, congratulate, have that big coach, give smile, and be. Be warm and be present. But then it's right back to work again.

2015, we win the championship with Kyle Busch. There's literally confetti on us. We're standing in victory lane, right? And there's a group of us. And Coach comes up and he starts talking about the Monday morning meeting the next day. Hey, we got. All right, we're going to. And we literally were like, coach, just enjoy this for right now. Like, hey, you're stressing us out. Like. Like. And he laughed, and he was like, all right. Yeah. But he is. You know, his sense of urgency. I call it the last plane out of Vietnam. Everything is that urgent to him. Like, we. This. This is life and death. And we have a Monday morning meeting. And it's funny because every Monday morning, it's, guys, this is. This may be the biggest week we've ever had. We've got. He'll go down his list, and this. This. It's this intensity. And it's not fake. Like, it's.

He.

He cares. It's like, I've been entrusted with this. I'm gonna do. You know, we have to do well. We have to survive. We have to win. And so it. It permeates through the building. It is tough, but it's why Joe's successful. And people. People always wonder, what's our secret sauce? And, you know, Coach is a unicorn. I mean, he is, like, he's one of one. He's such a dynamic leader. There's a Reason? He's in two professional sport hall of fames. It's not accidental. He knows how to pick great people. He knows how to motivate him. And he genuinely. I think he just cares more than every. Like, I've never seen someone care about everything so much. Like, he. It's. I will say he treats everything like it's his because it is his, but he cares. Speaking of his, he has a. We have this fun little exercise we do now, and then we might have an argument in a meeting. He'll have us all get up, and we all walk out to the. To the glass, and we look, and he looks out, and he goes, I'm just making sure my name is still on the sign out front. Okay, we got that. We got that covered. So kind of like how votes go here. He goes around the room and says, everyone who's opposed to me signal by saying, I quit. And there we go. And that's how the votes go. But I'm kidding.

Well, that's. Jerry Richardson had this line. He said, I practiced the golden rule. He who has the gold makes the rose.

There you go. Well, that is true.

So there's five overarching principles that you reference in your book, and two of them, treat people as souls, not transactions, and win at life. What do those mean? How do those manifest into your actions?

Well, I'll probably attribute both of those to really being modeled out to me by JD and so everyone knows what it's like to be treated like a transaction, and I am exhibit A for that. And again, I told you, I kind of have a complex early in my career, and people would always come to me to get to coach, and they'd come up to me and they might shake my hand on pit road, but you know what it's like in life anyway. Someone's shaking your hand, but they're looking over your shoulder to see who's the next person. And being treated like a transaction is, hey, Dave. And acting excited about me. But by the about 30 seconds in, it's, hey, can I. Could I talk to Coach? You know, again, I'm just. I'm just. They're just getting to coach through me. And I saw from JD Firsthand what it meant to treat people like souls. And, like, JD Just had this uncanny way of every person. I don't care if it was a janitor. I don't care if you were the CEO or anyone in between. He's treated everybody like they were. Like they had value. Like, this person is fearfully and wonderfully made and has equal value to everyone else. And I'm going to treat him like it. And when you were talking to him, he was all in, whether you had a minute with him or five minutes all in with you. And you literally walked away going, I'm JD's best friend. I was JD's best friend. And I feel like everyone thought they were JD's best friend because that's how he made everybody feel. So I really have tried to model that in my role because I'm now in a role that I've been entrusted with. That was JD's role. And am I treating everyone like a soul? And I think that's a, as a company, that's a great lesson to treat people like a soul. And then the win at life. I mean, again, at the end of the day, there's no titles on tombstones like President of Joe Gibbs Racing ain't going on my tombstone. You know, when we lost, JD and I had the great privilege of speaking at his funeral. The interesting thing about that was in the hour and a half amazing surface, not one time did anyone mention a single thing that he accomplished at work. Not one. That's right. Now they talked about the amazing influence he had through his work. Again, goes back to, he was a great steward, he was great at what he did, but that was just a platform to have influence on people. And the influence he had on people is what the legacy was, is what. But that's where I go back to our what, like what we're doing at work is not going to matter 100 years from now. It's not. I mean, I guess if you invent something that changes the world, but even that, it's the who, it's the influence. And so I think winning at life is about figuring that out that what we're going to leave on this earth is the legacy is the influence that we've had on others. You know, I mean, as a Christian, you know, it's to know Christ and make him known. And I learned that from jd. And, and one of the ways you do that is by treating people like a soul. Loving people, caring for people and recognizing that again, that the, you know, winning at life isn't accumulating the most stuff. And man, our culture is so backwards. And look, I fall into it all the time. I mean, it is. Comparison is absolutely the thief of joy. And we live our lives comparing ourselves. And you know, I wanted more than anything when I was in high school to succeed, to make my dad proud of me. My dad never got to see me be the president of Joe Gibbs Racing. But what my dad would be proud of now isn't that I'm the president, you know what I mean? I had it backwards that hopefully I figured the rest of life out. The career part, hey, that's great. Hey. But it's the other stuff that's more important.

When you first started to suspect that something was happening with jd, what was that like?

Yeah, so it was. It's been 10 years, so 2014. Yeah. JD just kind of seemed distracted a lot. He would ask some of the same questions that he would ask the day before and I'd be like, are you? And interestingly so, Todd Meredith, another guy that's really one of the key guys that built Show Gibbs Racing. He's since gone on, but moved on to do other stuff. But Todd and I kind of had an intervention with JD and said, hey, jd, you need a sabbatical, why don't you go? He would always joke about, I'm just gonna quit and go run a Young life camp. And he would be kidding about it.

But you thought he might be burned out.

We were like, jd, yeah, you're burned out. Go take a couple months and go get your thoughts together. And then there were a couple things. Just on vacation, we had some friends and I was with him every day. So when something's gradual, you don't notice it as much. We had some friends that met us at the beach over one summer and they kind of said to me, what's up with jd? You know, is he on medication for something maybe that's slowing him down? And so it was sort of this period of a few months. And you know, I talked to Melissa about it and she, they ended up going to the Mayo Clinic and they saw some signs of some things up there. And so there was about a one year period where. And because JD's a public figure, they wanted to not tell people for as long as we could because the minute you tell people, that becomes the narrative every time. How's jd? And then the kids, their life isn't as normal anymore because they get asked. So. But then even when we did announce it, there was this year period where JD was still the president, but he was not able to do. And we were having to have someone go to meetings with him and things. And there was this awkward sort of transition period until the point where someone had to do his job. And interestingly, when coach came to me and he said, you're really the only one. You've done every different thing. And again, this Goes back to, from a personal standpoint, those 20 years of writing in my journal going, hey, maybe I'm not appreciated enough, or I know I was made from. I had no idea God was preparing me for a job that I never would have contemplated. And that's true in all of us, is we're in it and we complain and we're like, what's going to happen? Well, God's preparing you. So I got named president, and it was really difficult for me because it just was really. That was sort of the stamp that JD Is not getting better. Like, this is real. This is real. And it was a very. And if I'm honest, you know, that was at the end of 2015. Here we are in 2024. There's still a degree of discomfort with me being the president of my best friend's family business. I've kind of always liked to think I'm keeping this seat warm until someone named Gibbs can do it again. Sure. And that's an honor for me to be the steward of it. But I still have, again, an expression many of your listeners probably heard of, of imposter syndrome, of I have that all the time. Like, I'm in my mind. Often I'm sitting in a meeting thinking, I'm still the intern. I'm like, what the heck are you telling me that for? And I'm like, oh, okay, I'm the president. I guess you do need to tell me that. And sometimes it's hard for me to be a little comfortable in my skin with that. But that was a very difficult process. And then JD went to be with the Lord in 2019. But that period from 14 to 19 was five of just the most difficult. Like, I will say I always knew JD Was tough, but, like, unbelievable, like, what he endured. And like Melissa and the boys, like, people have no idea the level of, you know, I mean. I mean, I couldn't have more respect or love him anymore than I already did. But, I mean, that was sort of a whole nother level and just the way the family cared for him. But it was very rough. It was very difficult, what they went through. And, you know, here we had this huge growing company at the same time, and Coach and Melissa and all the kids just to go through that. It was a very difficult time. But again, I go back to, you know, in my faith, I have to believe everything filters through God's hands. And God allowed that to happen. I don't have to like it. I call it. I had a lot of what I call Lieutenant Dan moments Like in Forrest Gump, being at the top of the mast, having it out, and I'm like, really? Lord? J.D. like J.D. of all people, J.D. but God is good, and God loved J.D. more than we did. So I have to trust if those two things are true. You know, if he loves a man, he's in control, that I don't have to like it, but I have to trust it. But it was a tough process.

It's an incredible honor. And there must be times when you're with Coach Gibbs and it's just the two of you, and you're thinking he meant for this to be.

This should be J.D. yeah, it happens a lot, I would say. In 2019, we won the championship, and it was just Stacy and I and Coach on the plane flying to the awards banquet. And, you know, again, Coach never makes me feel this way. This is things I'm putting in my hand. We got off the plane, I just said to Stacy the whole time, I couldn't just help but think, that should be J.D. and Melissa. And she said, I was thinking the same thing. And, you know, you can't help but think it. And it's not because Coach couldn't be more gracious about me doing this, but. But I put myself. I have three boys, and I can't imagine, you know, preparing this to do with my sons and then my son's friends doing it and not my son. And so, again, Coach, you know, Coach has been through a lot, and his faith has gotten him through it. And again, it's gotten more comfortable. You know, obviously Coach has one grandson driving. Do a pretty dang good job with Ty Jackson, his namesake, Joe Jackson. Gibbs is changing tires on Christopher Bell's team. And then we just got Miller here. He just finished his. His sixth season at App State. Like you tight end at App State, and he's working with us in the front office. So for me, having them around is just a huge joy. And I know for Coach, he just loves having. Having it. He's now at the racetrack. He's got three of his grandsons there with him every week.

Our family has been close with Melissa and JD and the boys. We have boys that are really good friends with the same age with the kids. You mentioned we talked a little bit about Jeff of football.

Oh, my gosh.

With JD I had a similar experience. We were walking down the hill to a game and I just went up to JD to make some small talk to him at some point and was just talking to him, and he kind of just. Just didn't Respond to me. And just walked on by and I thought to myself, I'm like, well, that, you know, well, he doesn't like me or something like that. And then it was, you know, a short time later that that. That came out and I realized that, you know, nothing personal, but Jeff, it was a great experience. Coach Gibbs coaching your boys. J.D. coy.

Yeah, it was. It was amazing. And yeah, youth football, it was like fifth and sixth grade football. And honestly, like, it was. It was funny because my. My son Evan, one of my. One of the twins, Evan played on the team with Jackson and then Colin. Colin and Miller Gibbs Collins, my youngest, their best friends, and they played. And on that team, we not only had Coach Gibbs as one of our coaches, but Dan Reaves grandson Daniel played on the team. And so Dan Reaves came to a lot of the games, and we. And the other coaches would be like, really? You have two hall of Fame NFL coaches on your sidelines. And so it was so funny because here's Joe Gibbs is in the hall of Fame as an offensive play caller, but JD Relegated him to defense, and JD Was the offensive coordinator, and coach was. The coach was like, I think I've proven myself. And JD Was like, yeah, no, you're going to do defense. You're too conservative. And then I was the special teams coordinator, and I was. I was in charge of laminating the plays. And this is a true story. I was in charge of making sure each kid got enough playing time, which, you know, it's stressful in Jeffa.

Oh, yeah.

And I mean, there would be. I mean, we would have knockdown drag outs, and I'd be like, his entire. His grandparents are here. And, you know, they'd be like, all right, get him out there for one play. And, you know, it just. The whole thing was so. I have such great memories of Jeff. Those were some of the most competitive. And Evan, my oldest, played against Luke May. Luke May was the quarterback for the Green Machine.

Right.

And was just. I mean, my son was the safety. And coach would go. Just go all. Just go 50 yards back and just wait because he can throw it that far. So some great memories. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. Yeah.

Let's talk a little bit about racing.

Yeah, absolutely.

There's been some changes. Particularly Gibbs is the winningest team of all time. And through excellence and things that you've done here, things that you've innovated, control over the manufacturing parts, and all of the things that you've led with coach to really create that competitive advantage in a sport where it's literally just fractions of percentages change. What's happened to even the playing field in racing?

A lot. And so I do want to start. You made a comment on winning this. I do have to have a disclaimer. We consider ourselves a healthy competitor. With Hendrick, we're kind of the two big teams. Hendrick in the Cup Series is the winningest organization. Now, in fairness, they had a 10 year head start.

Sure.

There'S the Cup Series and then there's sort of our AAA Xfinity, which is the Saturday. In those two series combined, we've won. We are the winningest organization of all time. So just wanted to make sure any of my Hendrick friends are listening, but we're coming. We're coming for you.

Well, I said it, he didn't.

Yeah. So we are the winningest organization in the top two series of all time. And coach has a saying that in Both NFL and NASCAR he's noticed on average things change about 30% a year. So when you think about that every three or four years, it's like completely different. And he's found them both to be the same. And like everything, it's not 30% every year. One year, maybe a small change the next year. It's radical. Well, we had one of those radical changes three seasons ago where NASCAR really completely changed the way that we go racing. And here what I mean by that is this. In 2019, Joe Gibbs Racing had. Here's where I will do a humble brag for jj. We had the winningest season of any organization in the 75 year history of NASCAR. Out of 38 events, we won 19. We won half. I don't mean to brag, but no. So, and in any sport, 500 is kind of average. But when there's 40 different people fighting for a win every week and your organization wins half, that's a lot. Quite a bit. I think that was one of the catalysts to the change that I'm going to talk about. But at that time, we probably made 90 to 95% of the parts and pieces that went in our car. Right here in this building. We were totally vertical. Like we were literally building brackets, parts, pieces lighter, faster, stronger, and so is Hendrick and some of the other big teams. So the barrier to entry, to get in and compete against one of us is almost impossible. Now, in fairness, we went from 15 people in a little garage down the road, we built it to that brick by brick on our own, earned it. It's not like Anyone gave it to us. So, you know, we don't make any apologies for the fact that we got to that. But I think in the interest of wanting more owners to get into sport and in the interest of parity and look, every league wants parody. I argue people hate parity. No one likes parody. You can talk about it. No one likes parody. They like Goliath. They want to beat the undefeated Patriots or, you know, whatever. So. And you're never going to create parity, in my opinion, because the best organizations are always going to win no matter.

What the rules are.

Find a way 100%. So three seasons ago, we switched to what's called the Gen 7. We call it the next gen car. And basically the difference is we now buy almost every part and piece from a single source supplier that's the same for every team. So almost like a kit car. Like we're going to make you buy the pieces. You are not going to gain an advantage through slick trick pieces and parts. Everyone's going to have the quote same car and we're going to put it in the hands of the drivers and the pickers, which, I mean, in theory is a great idea. We're now 13 races into this season and 11 of those 13 have won by, have been won by Gibbs or Hendrick. So you still have the same two teams doing really well with these rules, but it is different. And there, there's been an attempt to create parity. Now there is more pressure on the pit crews because gaining a couple tenths of a second on pit road is everything because track position matters. It's hard to pass, there's more pressure on the drivers. But I will say for a team like ours, we just reallocated resources. So the people that were building parts and pieces are now working on other things that will make that kit car go faster than somebody else's. And there's almost nothing you can do to prevent teams from doing that. And that's not nefarious. I mean, that is in racing. What makes racing is a disparity of speed, meaning if all the cars are going the exact same speed, they follow each other around. And that is not a race. You want people passing each other. You create passing again is by again. You can have tire fall off, you can have more horsepower. You can. There's different ways that you accomplish it. But the racing's been pretty good this year. There's been some races that it hasn't, but the racing lately has been great. And again. So all that to say your question, my answer to Your question wasn't a knock on. It's more stating that there has been radical change. I think we've done a good job adapting to really was a. Almost a complete change in the way that we go to business. And if they make a change next year, we're going to adapt to that one as well.

Yeah, fantastic.

And coach, by the way, won the super bowl both times. There was some sort of a strike with the players and they had a shortened season. Coach won the super bowl because I think coach is excellent at adapting to changing circumstances and reacting quickly. And we do that, I think, well here when the rules change, where we're going to hopefully outwork out, think, you know, outsmart everybody else in a quicker period of time.

Well, that's speed to innovation and speed execution and great teams in any business. Yeah, great players make great plays in big games and Coach Gibbs has surrounded himself. He has an eye for talent.

He does.

And a. And a natural with some exemptions.

Well, I'm kidding.

You know, you got to keep the seat warm. But you know, he has an eye for talent and he has a real knack for leadership and he's remarkable.

And I've gotten a front row seat. I mean, to have that. And that's why I wrote a book, truthfully, like for 30 years, I mean, even on the plane, I sit in the seat right next to coach, which is a blessing and a curse, by the way. But I have gotten to watch as a two sport hall of Famer and I have probably spent more hours with him than anybody, like really in the last 30 years. And so I've seen how he treats people. I've seen the intensity, you know, and again, I've been on the receiving end of. I would joke, you get a phone call at 11 o' clock at night. It never starts with, hey, is this a good time? Are you awake? Are you having dinner? Are you whatever. It's. And it's right into the crisis of the day and we're going to solve it. And you know, you might go, hey, can we meet tomorrow morning about this? And he'll think and he'll go, oh yeah, I guess it would never cross his mind. Let's just wait till morning because if he thinks of something, he's dealing with it. And I've witnessed that for 30 years. And that sense of urgency permeates through our whole building. And it goes back to again. If you're in any business, you can sit around and complain that they change the rules or you just, as coach would say, get after it and figure it out. And those are the teams and the organizations that win, the ones that do that.

Yeah, I've learned to subscribe to the phrase rush to conflict.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

When you know something isn't right, the quicker you get to it, the more inexpensive it is to fix the problem.

100%. And I think that's a great. I mean, and those are the people. When you talk about picking people, there's two types of people. There's the people when there's a conflict that turn around and take off or hide. There was the people that get next to you and go, come on, and let's go run right into it. And those are the ones that you want. Those. And Joe has surrounded himself with those type of people. And that includes. And again, if you're listening to this and you're, you know, if you. Most people, unless you own it, you're working for somebody. Well, the person you work for wants your opinion in most cases. And if they don't, you probably shouldn't work for them. And Coy used to call them mannequin meetings. He goes, I'm not going to sit in a mannequin meeting. He goes, if everyone's just going to nod their head and agree with you, let's just fill the room with mannequins and we'll all save ourselves the time and you can meet with them just by yourself. But the whole reason we're in there is to add value, to have dissension, to give different viewpoints. And so I have that ability with coach to say, hey, what if we did it like this? And hey, we've had some knockdown drag outs. But then the key is when we leave that room, we lock arms. Even if I don't agree, because, hey, I'm gonna speak my mind. But then we're gonna leave. And I'm not gonna go say, hey, well, he did this, or whatever. And that's, I think, again, in any organization. And it's important to have dissension the right way, respectfully. But then when you leave, whoever the person's making the decision, you're all in. You gotta be all in together as a team. And I think we've learned, you know, you'll see us after a meeting and think the meeting went great. And you're like, man, if you'd have been in there. We were.

There were.

There were bullets flying, there was a lot of yelling, but we had it out. We spoke our piece and then we moved on.

Fundamental to that is alignment of agenda. And when you get in a big organization, maybe people are thinking about, well, I might not want to do that because it could affect my job or I'm comfortable doing what I'm doing. But if the, the outcome, the outcome, the winning has to be whatever it takes, that has to be paramount to everybody. Everybody pulling the roar, you know, pulling on the oars in the same direction and every, you know, if, because generally if I'm an employee in an organization and I know that if we win and I've contributed, I'm a part of it, then I'm going to move forward. Just like you did in your career. You did whatever they asked you to do and now you're in a high profile spot, you're well respected in the industry and you get to have some great experiences. Like going to the White House.

Yeah.

What was that like?

Oh my gosh. So particularly because of my background and finding out. I found out after my dad went into his private business, after his government days that he had been to the White House, he had briefed presidents. I had no idea. And again, do you know what he.

Was in the Agency? Do you know what his role was?

He was an operative. So he would, I don't know what his, I don't know what the title was. He was a super grade. I know that. And he would go, he did things. He, he did things. He would do secret satellite hookups and he'd been in manhole covers creating spying rigs and things to listen in on things. So some pretty cool stuff. A lot cooler than the stuff that I'm doing and interest. But going to the White House. Yeah, to go back to that, because I'm from there. I mean, I'm from D.C. i drove by the White House hundreds of times as a kid. So to be on the inside was surreal. Again, my father, my father had passed away, but, you know, never got to see me do that. But we did get to meet, got to meet President Bush, got to meet President Obama. We actually won in 2019. I mentioned. And Trump was in the White House. But then Covid started right when we were supposed to have our visit, so we got canceled. And by the way, I'm. This isn't political. If I get invited to the White House, I don't care who's in it. Like people who don't go to a meeting with the White House, pay. To each his own. But when are you going to get a one on one shot with the most powerful person in the world? Tell them whatever you want, you know, you got. Why Would you not go? You know, and in both instances, I got to shake their hand. I had two or three minutes, just me to say whatever I wanted to the President of the United States. It was unbelievable honor. And if I have a job where I get invited, I'm going. You can have your own opinion, that's fine. But I would hate to be criticized for going for any president when that's. If that's what you feel, hey, go. That's your most powerful person in the world.

Well, it's interesting because last month I went to the White House. So my wife and I got involved with the White House Historical association, which is the group that is responsible for all the artifacts, all the paintings and the desks and all of the stuff that goes regardless. And it was started in 1961 by Jacqueline Kennedy. And they're actually building not a replica of the White House, but a huge four story exhibit where much of the White House is going to be replicated high digital display so people from all over the world that maybe can't get to the White House, this is half a mile away, you go to it and it is a White House experience, has all the history. So it's going to give a lot more people access to what is the, to your point, what is the institution of the White House and walking through the Rose Garden and getting pictures in front of the Oval Office and then having lunch in the diplomatic room where FDR gave us fireside chats. Going through the China Room. I don't know if you went through the China Room when you were there.

Absolutely.

It was, you know, and you're looking at Abraham Lincoln's China and George Washington's China that they selected. Like, you know, regardless of who's in the office. That's an incredible rich part of our history.

When we went with President Obama, Coach couldn't go because he had a sponsor thing that had been on his count. It was a speaking thing a year in advance. So by him not going, I was the most senior person there. So instead of them acknowledging him, it was me. So President Obama read my name on the thing. And just to have a standing U.S. president say my name at a, like just. It's awesome. I mean, I was in a broom closet. At one point I'm thinking, this is, this is great. So it was a big deal. It was neat for me. And more importantly, I go back to we're in a competitive thing where we're trying to win something. So if you're at the White House, it means you won. You are at the pinnacle of your deal. So what is symbolizes is as exciting as where you actually are. You'll say, hey, we are competing against the best in the world at what we do. And we were the best. And you get to go there. And there's many people. Coach says this all the time. There's a lot of people who go to work every day and they don't know if they won or lost. And how hard would that be to go? Come on. Hey, honey, how was work? I don't know. I don't know if I won. I just did the same. We have a scoring pylon. Ours is on national TV every week. I can't go to the grocery store without somebody knowing whether I won or lost. And that can be tough. But it's great because when you win, everyone knows you won and you kind of feel like, hey, we, this really paid off. Like all the, all those, you know, knock down, drag out meetings, all the Sundays, being on an airplane, in a way that was worth it because we're, hey, we're at the top. And that there's a lot, there's a lot. There's a lot of pride in that for sure.

You have an interesting story about George Bush's suit.

You read that? That's funny. Honestly, this is so, this is so. I've gotten to meet him twice. So first meeting we're at the White House. I'm like, I'm in line waiting for my, you know, you're rolling through your head. All right, I got one minute with him. What am I going to say? And so actually my line was, I was going to tell somebody. So George Bush back in the day ran the CIA. So I was going to tell him, hey, my dad worked at the CIA. So I go up, I know I've got it all ready. No, but I've got it all ready to say. And as I get close to him, I'm completely thrown off by his suit. He had a pinstripe suit that until you got two feet away from it, you couldn't see that the pinstripes actually had his name in step and repeat, George W. Bush. George W. Bush going down it. And so I get up to his suit and I look at it and I go, that is the coolest thing I've ever seen. And his face lights up and he goes, it's good to be the president. And that was his line. And so fast forward 10 years later, we have a sponsor function and we get him to come speak. And so he's speaking and since I'm kind of one of the hosts. I get to be in the green room with him before he goes out and I come up to him and I go, you know, Mr. President, it's such an honor for you to be here. I have to tell you a story. And so I tell him we visited when we won the championship and I tell him about the suit and he goes, let me tell you the story about that suit. And he tells me a 10 minute story of a guy in India. Anyway, he was so excited that I remembered that suit. Anyway, so it was kind of my one thing that I have that if I ever see him, I can talk about his pinstripe suit with George W. Bush, which I thought, I'm not sure I could pull off a suit with, you know, David Alper and David Alper if I'd want to. But if you're the President of the United States, you can pull it off. Pretty cool.

Winning, finishing 1, 2, 3.

Yeah.

Doesn't happen very often at Daytona.

Yes.

The year. Yep.

Year JD passed away.

Year JD passed the month after actually. What was that like?

Yeah, so I had mentioned that, you know, JD went to be with the Lord in January of 2019, which is the month before our season starts started. So the Daytona 500, for those aren't race fans, is our first race. It's kind of our Super Bowl. It's kind of wonky that we start with the biggest race, but it is, and it's a tradition. So you start off and we go to the Daytona 500. And the Daytona 500 is not only the most prestigious, it's kind of a crapshoot because it's the way the cars are in a pack. You could be the best car all day and you're going to wreck on the. It's just, it's, there's a, it's really difficult to win the Daytona 500. And so we go on this day. And so JD's playing number in high school and college was 11. And so one of our four teams is the 11 car. Denny Hamlin drives the 11. Interestingly, that is the winningest car number in NASCAR history, the 11. There's been 13 drivers in history who've won with the 11. Denny is about to become the winningest. Anyway, that's a separate story. So we go to the Daytona 500 and FedEx has a special message. They do a national ad in the usa today honoring JD. They put in honor of JD message on the car on lap 11 of the race. Our friends at Toyota had arranged with Fox, the broadcaster, to have a silent lap. So on lap 11, the broadcast booth would go silent. All the fans would stand up, all the teams would sign up, stand up on pit road, silent, with signs honoring jd, which was very emotional. So grateful that they would do that for all that. To say we were rooting for the 11 car that day. Like, normally when I go to the racetrack, I'm. It's like my kids being in something. I can't have a favorite. I just act. I'm. But. But that day, JD's whole family stood in the 11 pit because there was something special about that was like JD's car, like the 11. So we come to the end of the race, and not only did the 11 win, we as an organization, we finished first, second, third, which never happened, will never happen again in the Daytona. Like, it's impossible. It's just. We didn't even know we were first, second, third, because the pack was so big. We look up at the pylon like, this is a miracle. And Coach called that his biggest win of his entire sports career. And that's saying a lot coming from a guy in two sports hall of Fames because of what it signified. And interestingly. And so that was the year we went on to win 19 races, our winningest year in history. Like, in honor of jd, it was just so appropriate. Coach got inducted into the hall of Fame the next year. And when you're an owner in the hall of Fame, they ask to display a car. You pick one car that represents your history. Well, it was an easy pick. That 11 car went in the NASCAR hall of Fame. Actually, when you win the Daytona 500, your car doesn't leave Daytona. There's a museum there. It stays for one year. You actually sign a contract with Daytona that says if we win, you get our car for one year. So they take the car from victory lane, goes in the Daytona Museum. It went from the Daytona Museum to the NASCAR hall of Fame. It stayed there not one, but two years because of COVID they didn't have a class the next year. So it stayed there two years. And it now sits in a special Daytona 500 display in our front lobby right here. And so it's. Those have been its three homes. Still has the confetti on it, still has where we signed on it. Again, biggest win of all of our. I mean, we were all balling. Broadcasters were ball. I mean, it was. It was amazing. It was like a. It was like a. Like if Hollywood wrote it, you go, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard that would never happen, like. Like. But it was really pretty awesome.

I think that's a good place to end day.

Yeah.

I can't think of a more important place. I've got one question.

Yes? Okay. If.

If you had one sentence to speak into somebody's life and make an impact, what would that be?

You matter. I mean, I just think people. People. I mean, I'm the president of a pro sports team, and I can't tell you how many times I'm having my devotion. I just feel like I don't matter. Like, there's so much the world tells you that these things matter and that matters. And you may be going through one of those tough chapters like I was talking about, and, you know, God's preparing you for something. And, you know, obviously, as a person of faith, you know, I do believe God made each of us unique, fearfully, wonderfully, and that each of us matters equally to him. Again, I have three kids. It's amazing I could love three people that much. And I love them all the same as much as I could love them. That's how God is with all of us. And it's hard to remember that sometimes when you're in the grind of life and you wake up and, like, this sucks. Do I matter? You do matter. And so, yeah, just. That would probably be a good place to end. Perfect.

Dave, thanks for being on.

All right. Hey, thanks, Jeff. I enjoyed it. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, 100%. This has been Dave Alpern with Jeff Duden, and we have been on the home front. Thanks for listening.