Doing Well by Doing Good

You, as the entrepreneur, you will rush past. You think it's a secondary point. You've been doing this so long, I've been hitting the head 12 times and I always get up and here's how. And you don't even think about it because that's just what you do. But to me listening as the reader, I think, oh my God, people could really use that.

All right, everybody, this is Jeff Duden and as always, this podcast is brought to you by Homefront Brands. Simply building the world's most responsible franchise platform, encouraging entrepreneurs to take action and transform their lives, all the while delivering enterprise level solutions to local business owners out there on the home front where it matters. If this sounds like you, check us out@the homefrontbrands.com today and start your next chapter of greatness, building your dynasty on the home front. And I will be looking for you here. And today I am so absolutely excited to have Bruce Kasanoff on the podcast. Welcome, Bruce.

Thank you, Jeff. Thank you for inviting me.

For 10 years, Bruce has been helping entrepreneurs gain clarity, focus and fulfillment. He is a social media ghostwriter and clarity coach. Over 800,000 people follow him on LinkedIn where his mountain minute newsletter offer quick Tips to over 175,000 entrepreneurs and professionals. Bruce's book how to self promote without being a jerk, which by the way seems like a theme humility and authenticity in everything I've read has helped tens of thousands of professionals who don't like to brag. He's also authored a career guide, never tell people what you do. He was part of Ogilvy and Mather team in the mid-90s that helped transform IBM brand from arrogant to approachable. And he earned an MBA at the Wharton School and has presented at Wharton, Yale University and New York University. Bruce, an honor to have you on today.

Thank you, Jeff. That was impressive. I want to meet that person.

Yeah, right. He sounds great. I guess we'll see, won't we?

We'll see. Yeah. Time will tell.

I went down this rabbit hole of your content and I started reading these blogs. For me, what struck me immediately was first of all, these things are. Your writing is tight.

Thank you.

You know how hard it is to make things simple and clear, right? It's very personal, it's emotional and it's incredibly thoughtful and everything that you wrote triggered kind of a yeah, man, that's. That's right. Type response.

So excellent, excellent.

I, I love to. To get to like how that happens today and how you got here, but if you don't Mind, our listeners are always very interested in people's backgrounds and, you know, inflection points and decisions that you made in your life to kind of get you to this great place where you are today. Anything you care to share, we would really appreciate to understand who you are, Bruce. Sure.

So my career, my life looks like a roller coaster. It just goes like that. I've never been a person that like, okay, I'm going to go work someplace for 30 years. So I have started companies, failed companies, you know, tried again. I had one company 20 something plus years ago that I lost my $80,000 investment three times earning back, and then finally recognized, wait a minute, that this is not working. But so I'm a creative who for a long time thought I was an entrepreneur. And in reality I'm a creative that what I really love to do is I'd love to bring out the best in entrepreneurs. I love to be with entrepreneurs. I love that get stuff done mentality. But myself, I'm, I'm not that, but it took me 20 years to figure that out because I had succession of businesses and I was always best in someone else's business, like being, you know, number two, number three, or being the creative force behind the person. And then finally 10 years ago, I figured out, okay, I'll just be the creative force behind entrepreneurs, period. There won't be any doubt about it. So that's the short, quick answer to what you just said.

I got it. Now, where, where did you grow up?

I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts. I went to Boston Latin School, which is the oldest school in the country, which I absolutely hated. And bad news, it's six years instead of four, because junior high too, so. But yeah, I grew up in Boston.

Okay. And then have you, have you traveled around the country much in your, in your business life?

Well, I, I just literally November 19th, I, I left Vermont and I drove with my partner Joan all the way around the country. We went to cool towns and we looked for a place to live and we ended up in Bend, Oregon. We literally moved here six weeks ago. So after driving around the entire country to figure out where to go, I've traveled all over the world, but that was the most recent.

How long did that take you to do that?

Took us three months. Yeah, we stopped in Asheville, Austin, Taos, Dana Point, Malibu, Bend, and Seattle. Okay. But we looked at America for three weeks, which was kind of interesting to be just offshore. And, and, and then we went two more weeks across and stayed in West Seattle, where we were looking at. So it's really interesting to do that.

Look through a new window, get some new perspective on life. And I heard Bend is absolutely gorgeous.

It is. It's. Although it's snowing now, which is annoying.

You know, I look at the work question, is this. Like, who is this guy? And, and, and I digging through it, and you got a lot of content on your website, and I would highly recommend that people go to your website because all of I, I'm not going to say all, but there is a. An inventory and a library of all these very thoughtful LinkedIn articles. There's other content there. I imagine you can find your book on there.

You can actually find an entire book on there. I have a book called the Ghostwriters Questions. It's. It's all free. It's all on castnoff.com so there's. There is a lot of content there.

Nice. You said you're creative. Do you consider yourself to be primarily an executive coach or a marketer or a ghostwriter? Like, how do you describe yourself at a cocktail party?

I'm a ghostwriter is how I say things in a cocktail party. Because everyone always asks you, wait a minute. Either they either say, what's that? Or they say, whoa, that's. That's different. And tell me about it. So, yeah, no, I, I'm a ghostwriter primarily, and a different type of ghostwriter, meaning I don't really work on books. I, I work only with entrepreneurs. I talk to the same group of about 14 entrepreneurs once a week. I always start the conversation with what matters most. So what matters most to you? Recognizing that some weeks you're going to tell me about the meaning of life according to your philosophy, and sometimes you're going to tell me, we're trying to close our next round of funding, and that's all I'm thinking about, or we got a chance to double our size if we merge with this company. I'm not sure if we should do it or not. And so I have these profound, incredibly deep, often personal conversations with entrepreneurs. And then at the end of that conversation, I take a piece of it and I look for the intersection between what matters most to that person and what matters most to their network. And I created a social media post in their words because I'm like you are doing right now. I'm recording the session, so I have actually your words and people. It's interesting because a lot of times the entrepreneur is a bit surprised at what I came up with, even though he or she said those words. Because the thing that that that happens is that it's hard for us to discern out of all the things we know, all the experiences we have, all the opinions and beliefs we have, what's going to be most helpful to somebody else. And my job is to listen to you and say, hey, that. And, and because many times you, as the entrepreneur, you, you will rush past. You think it's a secondary point. You, you've been doing this so long, like I've been hitting the head 12 times and I always get up and, and here's how. And you don't even think about it because that's just what you do. But to me, listening as the reader, I think, oh my God, I never heard that. I never heard it put that way or people could really use that. So, so that's fundamentally what I do.

So 14 clients is a relatively small customer set.

Yep.

That would imply that you are very selective about who you work with.

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say it that way. I'd say that there are certain people who are drawn to me and vice versa. Got it. Like, I'm not a person at all who say, like, if you call me up tomorrow and said, would you consider taking on a client? I absolutely would consider taking on a client. I'm not at all like snobbish or. But the people who stay with me and who love working with me and vice versa, they have two characteristics. One is they are people who know how to get things done, entrepreneurs who know how to build companies. Because I'm not drawn to people who just, oh, let's talk about our feelings all day, you know, that's not, that's not who I am. And then the second is they're willing to go deep. They're willing to be self aware. They're willing to say, okay, well, I get, I've been successful so far, but what's it going to take to get to the next level? And why would anyone in my network, meaning my investors, my employees, my customers, you know, my friends, my family, why would they care about the next thing I have to say? And the people who I can say to, okay, well, that's really interesting, but I don't think we should write about that, you know, and who can listen? That's why not. And say, well, here's why not. And I don't care if they argue with me, I just want them to think about it. And so that type of person, there's always room for one more. Got it.

And are these 30 minute, hour long sessions?

30 minutes, yeah.

Usually okay, who's a typical client? So entre people that know how to build something. I imagine that, you know, this is high value but probably also high investment to get your time to be able to do this. So it's gotta be people that are, that have probably significant size businesses and what semi public Personas perhaps my typical.

Client has three to 100 employees.

Okay.

I have clients who have raised, you know, 100 or $200 million. I have clients who have never raised money. So for example, I'd say probably half my clients are business owners, not these venture backed entrepreneurs. And then the rest are either venture backed. And I have a couple meaning probably one of each, one coach, one consultant, both very successful. I think that, I think the real thing is, is that people who have achieved some measure of success in what they do, have people in the legal industry, have people in technology, people in varied industry. The really those two characteristics of like are you successful and do you want to go deep? That's really the thing.

So what do you think gets people to stop and read something? You know, I saw one of your articles and I think it's a 27 year old warning and I think it was from Carl Sagan and.

Oh yeah, what did that, what that.

Had to do with, was it materialism and things like that?

Well, Carl Sagan before he died, you know, he's a famous astronomer and probably the best explainer of science of his time and he wrote that he was worried that our society was becoming a technological society. But the, the way we educated the members of our society, meaning our school and whatnot, and our public conversations that we were getting to the point where everyone, including the legislators, including the policymakers, including the programmers, lacked the technical capability to understand the implications of where we were going. So the, you know, chat, GPT, AI is a great example of people are saying, should you take a six month process, should we legislate this? And, and I think about Carl Sagan's word about 27 plus years ago now and say like who's capable of thinking clearly about this? So that, that to me is, that is the one of the themes that I go through is what does it take to think clearly?

Yeah, and I'm interested because I was clicking through the articles and most of them really resonated with me and kind of made me stop and think and want to read, not just read three or four sentences and click away from it. So how do you stop people in their tracks? Like what is it? What's the psychology behind what you do? Because there has to be a formula. Clearly, you're good at getting people to give 30 seconds to 60 seconds of attention to your clients. Talk to me a little bit about that. What stops people?

Yeah. So first of all, every attempt I or anyone else has ever made to provide the seven principles for doing this is outdated almost as soon as you publish it. Because our standards for, you know what's interesting, what's not, what will stop me if not keeps changing. And so I think the first thing is a willingness among. If you're the content creator, if you're the entrepreneur, whosever voice you're talking, are you able to internalize? You know, who am I talking to? What do they care about? And can I tap into that? So I always think of it as like, if you were in the room with me, how would I try and have a good conversation with you? And then I try and extend it to larger numbers of people. So I'm always trying to be somewhat unexpected. I'll give you an example. So three years I was a LinkedIn influencer, which basically means there were like a hundred and then 200 and then 300 of us who could publish on LinkedIn when nobody else could. And when I first started out, I was like the only non famous person. Literally everybody else was famous. I was not. Nobody knew who I was. And once the executive editor, Dan Moth, sent me a note and he was like, bruce, love your content, but your headlines, they make people think. And when I have 2000 options I could click on what does he mean is not a good thing. And so you got to work on your headlines now, today, sometimes there's no headlines, just whatever. The opening, the opening five words of your video, the opening five words of a short tweet or post. And so in those few words or the image, you have to stop people. You have to figure out, like, can it be surprising? Can I say exactly what you were thinking? Can I? Meaning how are we going to survive the recession? You know, the best headline I ever wrote was $75,000 buys happiness more does not. Which is based on this survey. People have seen now that if you make $150,000, are you happier than 75? No. Once you have your basic needs, money.

Doesn'T make you happy, then it's intrinsic motivation from there.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But that gave you the lesson, told you what to expect, but also stopped you in your tracks. Because it's like, wait a minute, I've been thinking, my next raise, I'm going to be happy finally. And so those people really resonate One of my biggest lessons is decide what you're going to share today and only do that you have one point. Stick to the one point. Like you said, I'm concise. That is part of what I try and do is like everything else that's unrelated to the one thing I want to accomplish today, just forget it.

That is such sage advice because, man, I will have three tangents in one sentence. What's interesting about what you said about headlines? Your headlines are questions that people would like the answer to sometimes.

Yeah.

Or, you know, I'm looking at some of these right here. Like, there's a few that, that jumped off the page at me, and there's hundreds on there. But one is thou shall not brag. Oh, that's interesting. Never tell people what you do. Oh, that jumped off. I. I need to read. What does he mean by that?

So, so to give you an example, so there are many different tactics. You can reverse common wisdom and get someone's attention. A piece I did that worked really well was never teach a starving man how to fish. Which is the opposite of, you know, what everybody says if you teach a man how to fish, you know, and when I turned around, I said, look, if someone's starving, you do not want to teach me how to fish. Then you want to give me some fish, let me recover, and then say, you know, would you like to know how to get your own food? Now, one of the things I did, for example, to get that particular piece, which went hugely viral, I published a list of 20 tips, 40 tips, 50 tips, just in one long thing. And then I read the comments. Wow, everybody likes number nine. I'm gonna write something about number nine.

Yeah.

A big part of this is paying attention in your life as well as social media. What do people say to you? Oh, wow, that was great. You know, tell me more about that. Whereas on the other hand, people say like, oh, yeah, what? I'm sorry, I wasn't listening. That's not the stuff you want to share with other people, even if it's important to you. And that's one of the hardest things, is that things that you care about are not necessarily what other people care about. And you have to know that that's self awareness.

So a consistent theme that runs through your content, I think, is humility. All these hundreds of article titles that are so well crafted and interesting, probably depending on who you are as you go through the list, certain ones are going to jump out to you and other ones you're just going to pass over.

Sure.

Let's say somebody wanted to increase their social media following. Sometimes we watch people on social media that are willing to say the things that we aren't right. They're brash, they might be profane, they're aggressive. If there's something that happens in the news media, they're going to have an opinion on it and it's going to be right in your face. That's not really your approach. I don't, I don't expect that those are your clients or people. You know, you're, you're, you have more thought leaders or thoughtful people. How much you change your method based on the audience that they're going for.

There is a significant difference in my clients and their voice. If you put all my clients in the room together, I'm not sure they all would get along. So I do think there's a difference. I would say the most important piece of what you're talking about, there are things we can do to attract an audience that will bite us in the long run. What you can do to get attention is not necessarily what you should do to have a fulfilled life. I think it's important to think about that, especially today in a world where one of my good friends is head of a child psychology unit of a major hospital. There's a crisis among children and teens today. I mean, it's like 25 times higher visits to emergency rooms for, you know, psychological issues in the last three or four years. And part of that is social media and part of that is the pressures that it puts on us. And so you really want to be careful to say it's not can I get a million views? It's can I bring into my life the things that I want to bring into my life? And you should say and do and conduct yourself in such a way to make that, you know, a positive, self fulfilling prophecy.

That's a mouthful of truth right there. What is rewarded on the Internet are things that we would never have grown up coaching young people to do. It seems like a whole different world where, you know, everybody's alter ego is out there and, and the, the wackier it gets, the right, the more attention that people are likely to get. But imagine if you're, if you're just a kid, man, and you're looking for a place to belong. You're trying to figure out your way through life. You've got parents and you got other obligations and people and then you've got all this pressure and you see all this other stuff online. Some of it's true, some of it's not. It's hard to, to kind of stay that. Know who you are today. I would imagine growing up like we. I mean, it was just personal accountability. Do the hard work, put other people first. You get rewarded for what you do in private, right?

Yeah.

Stuff's out the window today. That's not what people get reward. You could say that, but that's not what people are getting rewarded for in a lot of cases.

So I'll give you an example. So one of my clients, he runs legal conferences. So he has built a community of professionals. Like literally, for example, he gathers 75 professionals together every Thursday on a one hour Zoom call where he has guest speakers, whatnot. He has managed to build a, a public Persona largely focused on this community I just described, with values that are consistent with how he wants to move through the world. He attracts people who are like that. You certainly can do that. I think the mistake that people make is they think, oh, if I'm going to compete for attention on social media, I need to be big, bold views instead of, do I really believe this? And most of us, for example, I said, usually I have about 14 clients. I don't need to be a mass media star if I only want 14 clients. What I have to do is I have to be consistent enough that people can get, oh, I would like to work with this guy, because they see me time and time again. It's consistent. Doesn't mean it's boring. You just have to know who you are. Which is unfortunately a tough thing to do by yourself.

It is. Well, I think fundamentally, and if you look at my book Discernment, the stories that I share in there, you know, we've had a set of, my family and I, we had a set of family values that hasn't changed in over a decade. And it's kind of how we roll and how we make decisions. It's not the only thing, but it pops up. It rears its head occasionally when a decision pops up. And we'll be like, well, this is how we need to make that decision, you know, based on that. So it's not something that we are, you know, we'd have a shrine to it in the kitchen, but it is up on the fridge. So, you know, and then that's sort of a shrine. But yeah, yeah, well, it is, you know, especially in the middle of the night when there's unsupervised ice cream. And I see that you have a personal and professional credo you thought enough of about it to have it prominently on the website, be generous and expert, trustworthy and clear, open minded and adaptable, persistent and present.

Yep.

How does that live in how you navigate the world?

It's pretty much everything. So first, the background to that, I was having photographs taken because I needed to have a speech nine years ago. And the photographer said, do you mind if I do this little meditation just to relax you before. And I got this flash, like literally in my head that the only way I could, like be successful and move through the world clearly was to be able to say in a sentence what I care about, what matters most. And it was such a strong, I mean, such a strong thing. I went home immediately after that session and wrote down that sentence that you just read, which is basically eight words. And then I proceeded to put that out into the universe as much as I could. I think. First year I put it out as a PDF, 40,000 people downloaded it. The book you described up front, how to Self Grow Without Being a Jerk, is organized around those eight words. Pretty much everything I have done since then, for example, be generous. I give away more things than I possibly than really makes sense, but I do. But also what it gave me. And that's why those words are not nearly as important to your listeners or readers as what I'm about to say. It doesn't matter what mine are. Can you wake up a year from now and two years from now and three years from now and basically have the same clarity over what your words or sentence or phrase are, is however it turns out to be? That's why it matters to me. You know, I. I've tinkered at times with that, whether I changed a little bit. But the point is, is that if someone calls me 17 days from now and say, bruce, tell me about your credo, it's still the same, right? And when I lie in bed at night, which I often do, and say, was I consistent with what I believe today? I know the standard, you know, the yardstick of what I'm measuring against. That's the important part. If you have that so much easier, because when you get into these really difficult situations, like, I'll give you a great example. One of my clients in the beginning of COVID had about 75 employees, his own company, no investors. And he said, this is at the beginning, like in mid March. And he said to all his employees, I guarantee through the end of May, I'm not going to do anything to threaten your income. We're going to get through this lockdown and I'm going to pay everybody I Don't care what happens in the business. I'm going to pay you all. And at the time, I mean, we talked about that before he did it. He didn't ask my permission. He just told me he was about to do it. And he told me why. Because he has the five values for his company, and it was consistent with the five values in his company. And that's what he did. I think ever since then, the dividends to him were enormous because it, it really defined and solidified what his values are, what he believes in, and how much he's willing to, you know, how much risk and capital he's willing to put on the line for his values.

That is the most powerful lesson that I see. People need to learn. They're halfway through their career, they're 40 years old, they chased it around, and they really haven't been declarative about who they are and what they'll tolerate and how they choose to navigate life. And I wake up, when I wake up in the morning and I have clarity of purpose. I'm in a lot of businesses and things don't always go well, which results in conflict. Every day I walk into some half a dozen conflicts. Some of them are little, some of them are larger. But I know how I'm going to roll. I'm going to do the right thing based on what I believe. Then I'm not going to sweat and have all these regrets over doing the right thing and resolving the situation if I made a mistake.

Right.

And vice versa. I know. I know when I'm going to fight, and I know what I'm going to fight for.

And when you're making tough decisions, it helps to have some system for how do I make sure? Because when the pressure grows, that's not the time to figure out how you're going to decide. They have to know that when there's no pressure on, and then just, you know, stick with what you're doing. These are my values. This is my credo. This is what I believe in, and do it from there.

Our family values are, live fun like that, respect others, be humble, never panic. Which is interesting that it's a value. But how many people, like, when something bad happens, like the world needs to slow down? I often say in business when I'm coaching people, like, none of this is fatal. But sometimes in life, things can be fatal. Sure. And the last thing you want to do is be running around, like, running around crazy. Be a servant, leader, Fail fast and move forward. Trust yourself to take chances and always do more. Than is expected.

Well, I like that. That's great. How long have you lived with that?

Geez, 10, 12 years probably at least. Well, I think that's powerful for people, especially, you know, when people are looking at, I mean, right now in the economy, we've got rising interest rates, we've got uncertainty in corporate jobs. Inflation has accelerated, wages have accelerated at a lesser rate. So now there's this gap. The, you know, people have more month at the end of their money now. People are like, well, if this keeps continuing, then my standard of living is going down, even if I'm getting a 3% bump. So what do I do? And those are the people that are coming to us. And a lot of times in corporate America, because people are following the path and doing. Doing what, what is expected. And they haven't done this work. A lot of times what it takes to do this work is you've got to be out there kind of on the edge in an entrepreneurial role, or you got to have some time to yourself. I just encourage people out there to, you know, know thyself, be declarative about who you are, and don't be apologetic about who you are, and then surround yourself with those people that are gonna, they're gonna speak into that.

One of the issues when you work large or just work in a company is that a lot of times companies say, here are our values, here's our mission, here's our whatever. And a lot of times people feel, I think, implicitly to be successful, I just basically have to embody what my boss thinks or the company thinks, the CEO thinks. And so therefore you skip the part that we've been talking about. You don't focus very much on what do I believe, what are my values? I mean, you have basic values. You go to church or temple or, you know, I understand that. But day to day, I think people don't think, like, I don't know that many people who work for somebody else who have a credo that they can give to you.

Exactly.

And, and so it's not that they're better or worse or anything. It's just that they feel like, oh, well, I just want to do what my employer tells me to do. What I have seen a lot of in the last year in companies that you thought were stable and fine, and they're laying off people like crazy, and they're doing it in a brutal way. I mean, and then people start to say, oh, my God, how could this happen? What do I stand for? What do I want to do? Do I want to just go back and work for a big company like that again. That is really worth a lot of effort on all of our part. Regard. If you were to sitting there to please your current employer, that's not going to serve you well in the long run. I'm not saying you have to quit your job, but I am saying that you should not substitute their values and their belief system for yours.

I agree. And that's when the work really starts, right? When there's some fear and there's some risk of loss. All right, well, if it's gonna be, it's up to me, and I gotta figure out. And then you start looking at entrepreneurs and it's like, okay, these people think a little bit differently. They're. They're a little bit more focused, they're a little bit more. They're gamier, and they're a little bit more introspective. They really know who they are and how they occur. This same coach shared with me, he said, you know, Jeff, some people get paid by the hour. Salespeople might get paid commission, but. But leaders get paid by the conversation. If you think about that, there's a whole different mindset when you're getting paid for a task that you do or an outcome that you deliver versus value creation. Your three words, which were help this person. Three words that will transform your career, help this person. I thought that was very profound.

The deal with that is that anytime you interact with another person, whether the phone rings or someone knocks on your door or you're in a meeting, the first three words in your head should be, help this person. How can I help this person? On the one hand, people say, oh, yeah, you should always try and help each other. On the other hand, when your phone rings and you're busy and you don't think that, you think, what? What do you want? A busy CEO comes into a meeting. I only have nine minutes.

I'm late.

He's not looking out at the nine people who've been waiting 35 minutes for him.

Yeah.

And saying, how can I help these people? And yet, if you do that, it transforms your life, your results, the way people react to you. And a lot of times people make the mistake of thinking, oh, but you don't understand. I gotta double sales this. And you know, I can't be helping everybody. Yes, you can. Because again, the people, like Adam Grant wrote Give and Take years ago, are very successful. Profound book. And that the most successful salespeople are successful, focused givers. Those. The people who are constantly Giving of themselves, but who Keep in mind, what are my values? What are my goals? I'm trying to grow my company. I'm trying to double sales. But I'm going to do it by helping as many people as I possibly can.

100%. You know, the last word near credo is present. Have you ever read the book the Present?

No.

It's fantastic. Little. Little, you know, thin. Little read. Probably you can read it on a. On a short Southwest flight if they take off. Yeah, that's true. You'd read it at the terminal.

You read the Bible.

The whole concept of the book is, is that you are being present. Is the present like you're. It's a gift to somebody when you are fully present with them. And I really work hard not to do what you just said. So if somebody stops me in the hallway, stop. Relax your shoulders, look them in the eye. If somebody need something from you, you can give them 60 or 90 seconds of being present. And that will make. Make all the difference in that interaction.

I think this is the secret of life. I think being present is the secret of life. I think being present is where all the magic is. People who can be fully present can accomplish things that we think are miracles. And the reason that we notice this is because so few of us maintain that ability for any period of time. Everything that you will ever accomplish that is truly spectacular, that you talk about when you're in a rocking chair on the porch when you're 95 years old is the result of being present. And the longer you can maintain that present moment, focus, whether you're listening to somebody, you're writing, you're creating your masterpiece, you're making a decision, the better your life will be. Period, end of story. And if we spent more time getting better at that, everything else we've talked about today, we would do better.

You have just answered my unasked question, which was if you had one sentence to make an impact in somebody's life, what would it be? And I think you just answered that be present is the secret of life. There's only one last thing I want to just click on, and then we'll wrap this up. But you, you have an article that says miracles aren't rare. You took a picture from the ocean or a boat maybe, and you were looking at some buildings in the background on the shoreline. It wasn't until you looked at the picture later that you saw that there was orcas swimming in the ocean in front of you. And I think your point was, is that, you know, there's miracles happening all us, all around us, but we're just not paying close enough attention to see them. Any other comments on that?

Even though he's socially inappropriate these days, but Louis CK had a comedy routine that he said people get, like, pissed off because it's like, your plane's going to be two minutes late. You're in a tin can 30,000 mile feet above the ocean and you're falling. You know, I mean, seriously, I think everything in our lives is a miracle. How are you and I talking? There are no wires connected. How are we talking? I don't know. 10 people who can explain how that works? We. Well, that's easy. It's wireless. Like, how is that different than telepathy? Like, the telepathy is a miracle. And this podcast is not. Like, why? No, this podcast is a miracle. The fact that we can do this, it's all a miracle. This is a great point to close on, which is that you can choose to think nothing's a miracle or you can choose to think everything's a miracle. And if you think everything's a miracle, you're going to go through life happy because you're going to think, oh, look at that, look at that, look at that. It was a pleasure to talk to you. I'm like, I can't believe we could talk. How do we find each other? It's a miracle. That's a much better way to live.

Perspective is everything. And I really appreciate that and I've really appreciated this time. This has been. This has been rich and exciting and powerful for me, Bruce. I really appreciate it.

Likewise, and thank you so much for reaching out and it's been fun to talk to you. I got to read your book now, actually.

Yeah. Did I get you one out yet or is it on the way?

No, no, please do.

Okay.

No, I'd love to.

I'll get it out.

So.

So I know that you're looking for client number 16 because I'm going to be number 15, so that spot's already taken. But how can people reach you?

Kazanoff.com K A S A N O F fastest way to get me or Google me on LinkedIn. Is that legal to say Google me on LinkedIn? I don't know.

It works. Well, thank you again for investing the time with us today, Bruce. It's been wonderful. And as always, this podcast is brought to you by Homefront Brands. We are delivering enterprise level solutions to local business out there on the Home frontware account. So if any of this sounds interesting to you and you're ready to start your next chapter of greatness, reach out to me today on the home front. Jeff Dudenhomefrontbranch.com I'll be looking for you here. Thanks, Bruce.

Thank you.