Faith, Resilience, and Purpose: From Football Field to Leadership Development, with Dr. Jason Carthen

Destiny, focused leadership. At the end of the day, when you step into your destiny, how you have led, how you have loved, how you've encouraged folks, that will be your legacy.

Listeners. I am Jeff Duden, and we are on the home front. And as always, this podcast is brought to you by Homefront Brands, simply building the world's most responsible franchise platform. And today we have with us Dr. Jason Carthen. Welcome, Dr. Carthan.

Hey, good to be with you, Jeff.

Oh, always. Always a pleasure. It's been a minute, and I look forward to catching up with you over the next hour. Jason is recognized as one of the top executive coaches in the United States, the leadership linebacker, and there's obviously a story behind that. He is a former professional football player with the world champion New England Patriots. He's been inducted into the Business and Leadership hall of Fame, and he's an international speaker, bestselling author and media personality and philanthropist. With a personal mission to motivate and inspire individuals, Jason has helped shape over half a million successful leaders, managers, and employees. Welcome, Dr. Carthan.

Hey, good to be with you. Like I said, Jeff, I'm looking forward to diving in and having just a good conversation. Yeah.

Awesome. Well, thank you again for taking the time to be on with us. And you have so much great content and life experiences to share. I wonder if we can't start at the beginning and go back and share just a little bit about where you grew up and how you grew up.

Sure. Well, just in the interest of time, that would take us a long time. But what I would love to be able to share is that there was a transformation. I think anyone in the listening audience would benefit from just understanding that we all start somewhere. And at the end of the day, with a certain level of drive, what I like to call discipline, you can make it where you would like to be. And I'm not shy about sharing my faith. My faith also helps me to be able to move throughout life and do some of the things. And that was very beneficial to me, Jeff, because at the very beginning, I had it difficult. And that's probably. Some people would say that's putting it lightly, but I grew up in a broken home. My mother was incarcerated, never knew my father. And so that was a little difficult, to say the least. But research shows that when you're a young person, you're very resilient. And I had opportunity to walk that thing out and demonstrate that resilience. There were some days I was homeless. There were other days that I didn't really know what was going to happen with me. So I had to develop resolve before I knew what resolve was. And there were a lot of challenges, like I said. But at the end of the day, one day changed my life. And that was a day when I was walking through the hallways, Jeff, and a teacher saw me and said to me essentially like, you know, they could tell something was going on. And they said to me, like, hey, everything good? And I'm thinking, no, but one thing that you learn at that age, you don't tell everybody everything, or else your situation can change tremendously. And I said, no, you know, everything's good, just moving through life, doing whatever. And this person said to me, hey, you look like you got some size on you, and I'd love for you to come out and play some ball. And I said, play some ball? Like what? You know, what is that going to entail? Because, man, I'm just trying to struggle to live. At that point, Jeff, I wasn't even thinking about anything else. And he said, you know, you know, you get a chance to run around and hit people. And I said, hit people? I said, okay, sign me up. It was like I got all this pent up aggression. I was like, let's go for it. And that was the birth of, of really not only my sports career, but just a better understanding that I could weave the tapestry of my life if I had intentionality, if I became focused on what I wanted to do and not become distracted. And that laid a foundation that I am still building upon to this very day. And Jeff, I don't know if you want to elaborate anymore, ask another specific question, but I do not happen.

I do have a question. I, I do have a question. So one of my favorite questions to ask is other than immediate family member, who has made the biggest impact to you in your life? So thinking back to that time, you know, you, you didn't come to intentional intentionality yourself. You were. I mean, we, we, we can only, we can only start to work with the things that are presented to us and the experiences that we have and the exposure that we have. So, you know, you grew up in this tough situation like so many young people do, and at some point, was it a coach, was it a, was it another parent, was it a teacher? What started giving you the clues that you could weave together a different life, maybe a life that was different than anything you had seen up to that point?

Sure. And you know, it's. Again, that's a great question. Essentially it was that teacher slash coach, when they took a moment to What I like to say, speak life to me. I mean, that's one of my brands, I Speak Life enterprises. You know, at the end of the day, they took a moment to tell me there was more. They took a moment to care. And in so doing, they have created a ripple effect. Because everybody that I've touched, whether it's the different countries that I go to, whether it's the corporations I go into, whether it's the one to one, you know, coaching that I provide, when that individual said something to me, they created a ripple effect that would last into decades. And that changed everything for me. But that, and I believe this, and hopefully, you know, anyone that's hearing me right now will understand this. That was at that stage. But the mentoring, the speaking into my life, all of that stuff still continues to occur. I mean, in, in business, I've had mentors in life, you know, pastoral influences. I could just go on and on, but what happens, it's almost like a. How would I put this? So when I talk about that ripple effect, you may think it's not a big deal. When you say something to someone, you may think, well, maybe they'll listen to me, maybe they won't. But if you take the risk to do it, you don't know just the impact long term. And that's, that's what Destiny focus is all about. When you and I talk about that, that's what it's all about. And that person back then doing that really pushed me to be where I'm at and my business mentors. You know, one of the executives, he's retired now, but one of the executives of one of the largest companies in the United States. I mean, we're talking $60 billion company and continuing to excel. Always did well. I remember coming into his office. Beautiful office, you know, beautiful walls, wood, all this. I had never seen anything like that CEO. But he's just a regular guy. I mean, he was a regular guy. And when he talked to me, it was like, wow. You know, he had very simple concepts, but those concepts taught me one, to be real, be authentic, be who you are. No matter what station you're at in life, no matter how much money. I mean, this guy made a ton of money, but the reality was he didn't act like it. You know, we could just sit and get a bite to eat. And I'm talking when I was young, you know, I've been friends with him now for probably 20, 30 years now. You know, that's how long it's been. And just understanding that that ripple effect that you can have as long as you maintain humility, walk that thing out, as long as you know that you don't have all the answers. And when you're speaking life to someone, they may accept it, they may reject it, but as long as you said something to them, you know, it may stick. And that stuff can have just decades long impact if you're intentional with it. Hopefully that answers your question.

It, it does. And, and I'd like to share an experience that I had and I don't have the speaking career that you have, but I've, I've started to do a lot more of it and at some point over the last few years, I've gotten very comfortable. And it doesn't matter if it's 5,000 people or 3, it doesn't matter the size of the room or tell whatever it is to the medium, whatever it is, except for speaking to kids. And now if they're on a team, I'm coaching, right, I'm good with it because I know that I've got them for the season and we have this coach relationship and that's good. But man, when I go into a group of like high schoolers, like I don't know that I can get them and if, and if they don't care, they're not good at hiding it, you know, and stuff like. So my daughter asked me to come speak to young life at their high school before they had a. They would go and do young life before school and thirty something, hundred kids in the school. So it's. So it's a big school. It wasn't a big room or anything like that. But I was really struggling to figure out like what is the message that I want to, how do I relate to these kids without patronizing them, without, you know, how do I really connect with these kids? And I don't know whether I did or I didn't, but the last thing that I said, and I remember this, and I don't think I've ever said it another time in speaking to another group was as you leave here today and you go out into this class with these 3,000, this school with these 3,000 other kids. I challenge you to speak positively to somebody you've never spoken to by giving them a compliment and to smile at people that you've never smiled at before. Because that little impact, that little contribution that you make, I mean it could. You never know what that just little bit of effort is going to do for that person. How feeling that day, what, what connection you're going to have. And that's what you're saying is this. It's like a ripple on a pond, and our lives are just these things. And, you know, how big do you want the ripples to be? How big of an impact do you want to make? Maybe a smile is just a little pebble, but it might be a smile to somebody that really needs it that day.

Absolutely everything you just shared, you know, I think at the end of the day, you have to take a risk, and that's what you did. And whoever's going to pick it up, as I shared earlier, pick it up. If not, that's okay too, because one thing I try to do, and I'm not always good at it, but one thing that I try to do is remember how I was at certain ages and stages of my life. That helps me to relate to people better. And I remember life was a blur at certain ages, you know, so I. I just take all that into consideration and be the best Jeff you can be. Be authentic. I'm telling you. So many people that try and be somebody else or. Or they have that imposter syndrome, and they think, oh, you know, are they gonna want to hear me? And. And this goes from, you know, whether I'm speaking to young people all the way up to CEOs, you know, or doctors or nurses, whatever the venue may be, that they brought me in to speak to someone, and I had to let it go, because at the end of the day, I think about Colossians 3 and 23, you know, I'm not doing it for them. I'm doing it for the Lord at the end of the day. And that helps me because we, as adults, we as flawed humans, we have baggage. And when we get up in front of people, if we're not careful, all that baggage will get unpacked if we're not disciplined and we're not just being authentic and trying to share something that's going to encourage them, because it's not about. It's not about us. People show up for different reasons, and whoever brought you in brought you in for a different reason. Whether it was your daughter, but it had to be approved. So whether administration said, yes, he can come on in, whatever it is. But one thing that also helps me is always remember what's in it for me. Not me. The audience, they're always asking, like, why are you here? They. The whole thing is what's in it for me? And so I try to cater to that. You know, they don't care about my situation. My stories, they want to be able to see a little bit of themselves in what I'm going to. To share. And just like you, when you said, hey, you know, encourage someone, I challenge you do this today, they probably said, well, that's scary, you know, Mr. Dude. Now, I don't know if I want to do that. You know, I got this reputation to uphold, whatever it is. But when you suggest something like that, it gives them a potential to step outside of their comfort zone, to challenge.

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Maybe change a life at the end of the day.

Yeah. And if you, if you're living a life of service and you're up in front of a room, you don't have to reach everybody. It does. It's not, maybe it's not for everybody, but, you know, I spoke, I mentioned, I had spoke at Liberty University last week, and there was five kids, five young, young adults, students who came up to me after and said that was. Are you. That really made an impact on me. And I really, I just wanted to thank you for doing that. You know, I'm really inspired by what you had to say there. You know, it's right. What I needed to hear right now. And like, look, maybe it's just those five, five out of 500, but like, if it's. If it's five, then it's. Then it's worth it.

That's right. Yeah, that's it. And that's the attitude. As long as you keep that attitude, Jeff, that you can continue to be golden. Just do it.

Yeah, absolutely. So, Dr. Carthan, then you, you put the football pads on in high school, and then how did. Was football the vehicle for you at that point in your life going forward?

It was, you know, with one caveat. When I started playing football, really, the whole sports thing was opened up to me. You know, I, I started playing tennis, man, I played basketball. I went to the city championships in tennis, played a lot of good sports. It was like. And the reason Why I make that point is because it was the discipline, the camaraderie, all those different things that even in organizations you want, and there's so much overlap, so much overlap between the two, whether it's corporate or nonprofit or civic, what. Whatever it may be, when you think about sports and many of the analogies, there's so much overlap. And so for me, yes, that started that journey, but I wasn't just relegated to one thing. But then I started to realize I needed to specialize if I was going to get a scholarship. Yeah. And great things started happening, man. I became just one of the most heavily recruited athletes in all the country. I had scholarship offers all over. And when I started in college, I just showed out, man. I mean, I think back on it now and I was under grace because really, I should have been a statistic and I wasn't. And great things took place. And when I had an opportunity to go to college, one thing that I knew and I said to myself that I was not going to do, I was not going to miss this opportunity. I was not going to squander it. I was not going to throw it away. And so when I went to college, I just really just dove into the books. And we all know it's no secret when you go to college, it's a lot of partying, it's a lot of hanging out, a lot of crazy stuff that happens. And, man, I just tried to stay above all that. I tried to stay above all that. So much so my boys would say, you never want to have fun, man. Why you always. Why you always going back to the dorm? Why you studying? I said, man, if you knew what I came from, you know, I'm not going to mess this up.

Yeah, you don't want to go back. You don't want to go back.

No. That's right. No way. I was trying to go back, and I wound up finishing college, man, in three years. Three years. I went to summer school every year I worked. And it was just. It was game time for me. It really was. It was game.

What does a college football locker room teach you about leadership?

Couple of things. And this is maybe kind of raw, but it taught me how. I did not want to lead. That was the first thing. And I think we all need that. I think at the end of the day, if we're honest, we need to see what I call and what I've written about is the dark side of leadership. I think when you have dictatorial leadership, I think when you have leaders that are leading out of a place of lack. And I'll say lack because they miss some things or they don't have some things or they haven't matured fully in some areas. They bring that mess. And if, if they don't have someone leading them, then they're left to their own devices and they have to engage in self leadership. And many times, and I've written about this many times, they choose not to. If people can get away with a certain type of leadership style, if they're more transactional in nature, you see the body bags behind them and their interactions. They're not emotionally intelligent. They're just looking at people as a means to an end. And if you think about Frederick Taylor back in the 1920s, 1918, 1920s and scientific management, the whole thing was you can be replaced, you don't matter. If you don't perform, then you have to go. And that damages people. It doesn't give them a chance to thrive. It does not give them a chance to reach their full potential. And so I have a desire to let as many people know as I can that we have to lead and love on folks now. And I'm talking about nurture them. Okay. And I think if people buy into that, look at the research people will perform. If you loving on them, you're figuring out what they need. Psychologically, productivity goes through the roof. But when you tell folks you don't matter and just get it done and the only time I have anything to say to you is when you're in trouble, then you create a psychological imbalance. They don't know how to deal with you, so they try to avoid you. Or many things will happen with that. Basically, performance will stay at a moderate or decline because they'll say I'm just going to do enough to get my paycheck to not get written up. And I call that hedging. They just hedge for as long as they can, okay. Until they find something better or a leader steps in to sort of be the conduit for that transactional leader. And they're the go between and they love on folks. And then people will perform and do different things like that. So back to your original question. Man, playing ball. I've been under dictatorial coaches where they'll cuss you out, snatch your face mask, punch you in the chest, you know, crazy stuff like that. Because that's what they were under. Yeah. And somehow they thought that was the right thing to do. But if you start from the basis of this is humanity, do your homework, understand how humans work, understand how they think, and when you give them more positive reinforcement, then you're going to get more from them. Now, you gonna have some folks that say, oh, I don't care if they. If they disrespect me, cuss me out, do whatever. Yeah, they say that. But the trauma will follow them throughout the rest of their life, and they've never dealt with it. And then, lo and behold, Jeff, you get into a relationship with a significant other, or you trying to raise your children, and you've never dealt with the trauma. Then you cussing out your kids, you cussing out your wife, and then you saying, well, you know, this is what I saw. And I've also had other coaches, and you can interject. I don't know if you have a question or. Nope, go ahead. So then you also have the other coaches that absolutely love Tony Dungey, Romeo Crinnell. In college, I had a great coach as well, Tim Hinton. He coached at Ohio State and went on and coached other places. Cincinnati, I think, too. And those guys, man, I could show up. I tell folks, no matter where you're going, you darken the doors of your business, your company, whatever, you gotta show up ready to go. Whatever baggage you left, you had coming into work or whatever, you gotta leave that stuff because you're there for a purpose. And when you understand that identifying your purpose is your purpose in this life, then you know what you need to do every day to show up. And I remember coming in one day, and this was at the college level, coming in one day, and Coach Hinton, and, man, he was always spunky, Always like, come on. You know, I had a nickname back then. They called me Jaylone. They say, man, Jaylon, you gotta get going, man. You gotta get going. I'm looking at him like, dude, why are you so amped up? You know? And after a while, it became contagious, though, you know, that's the way he was all the time. And so when you saw him, he was like, coach T, what are we doing today? You know, it didn't even. It didn't even matter. Whatever he wanted me to do, I was going to do it because I trusted him. And the way that he approached me, he never tried to disrespect me. Other coaches tried, and that was difficult. It wasn't a good thing. And just being under that type of leadership, it intrigued me, Jeff. And I wanted to study leadership. I didn't know it at the time, but I knew that people respond a certain way based upon how you interact with them. And that really started so many things for me in terms of just loving leadership and allowing people to reach their full potential. So those were some of the different types of leadership that I was under and that I also witnessed in my career.

Some of the better football teams that I've been on had, as I look back, really competent leadership coming from the player group. And you know, a lot of times what happens in the locker room is it defaults to who's the loudest, who's the most aggressive. And, you know, maybe they're saying things that, you know, not everybody agrees with. It's an interesting dynamic in a, you know, going through camp as different, you know, who, who gets picked as a captain and then, but there's some other people that are, you know, they're, they're, you know, they're, they're like a little bit more quiet, but they're, you know, they're people that you're going to follow. So that whole player to player dynamic is fascinating inside of a locker room. And I think teams that don't get that right, it's an impediment, it's an impediment to their success. And you know, because, you know, somebody screws up maybe off the field, and next thing you know, they're in trouble and it, it impacts this whole other group of people. And now people are talking about that with this player group versus this other stuff. So, you know, really, you know, I, I, and, and the, and the problem is everybody's young, everybody's kids, you know, so if you didn't, you know, you try to find that maybe that, that, that young player that might have had the coach as a dad, who, so he had all the right things to say, you know, when they came into the locker room or whatever. But there's, I know it's an Internet meme, but I've got something on my wall that says never treat a loyal person in such a way that they no longer care.

That's good. That's good. A lot of truth to that.

There is. Especially when you're flying high and, and you know, you just gotta make, you just gotta remember that everybody needs encouragement, everybody needs respect, and everybody's got their own story.

So.

Yeah, fascinating, fascinating stuff. So from there it was onto the NFL. And can you share just a little bit about your career that you had in the NFL?

Yeah, yeah. So I went the hard way. Just like the rest of life, I thought. And I was told I had pro days, did extremely well in my pro days. I'm a shadow of what I used to be. I'm roughly 250, 55 pounds now. When I was playing, I was 280. I had 9% body fat, squatted over 865 pounds, I benched over 565. And I was massive. Like, I'm small now, man. My wife, we laugh about it because it's like, oh, you know, it's a. She sees pictures and she's just like, wow. And it's funny because I was fine tuned for that, you know, playing ball. And you and I have been together, different venues, playing golf together. So, yeah, I'm small now, but compared to how I was back then, you know, they were like, man, this guy's something else. And they. One thing that I'll never forget, and this has followed me too, they would say, the eye in the sky does not lie. And this guy Carthon is. His motor's always running, he's always going, he's from side to side of the field. Doesn't matter if it wasn't his play. Whatever. You see him in the film, you see him in the, in the, in the field all the time. And it wasn't like I was trying to be. It was just like, you know, we all have responsibilities, we all have tasks that we're supposed to complete. And one thing that I wanted to do was give my all because it's what you alluded to earlier. I was not trying to go back. I wanted to just keep getting better. And so I was projected to go pretty high, man, and I was excited about it. And then these rumblings started coming in. People were saying, well, he's a tweener. And I was like, what. What is this? I had never heard that before. I didn't know, you know, what that meant. And they said, well, you. You not big enough to be in the trenches at the DT level, defensive tackle. I'm sorry for the listener, listeners, but you rarely have your hand up in space playing linebacker because I was the all time leader in sacks and tackles for loss. And all my records still stand except for the sacks. And that was broken after 20 years. But I never really had to work in space like that. In space meant just standing up and running and covering backs and doing all these different things. So they said, it's going to be a risk to bring you in if you've never done that. I was just like, and what is all this? I have never heard all this, you know. And so began the tumble. And so I had to sign as a free agent. And that was Fine. I just. I was upset, angry about that, and. And it was no big deal. I wound up signing a free agent contract with the Patriots. And it was great, Jeff. I mean, man, you talk about excitement and dreams and all this stuff coming true, but I'll never forget, I wound up getting released. And that is that thing where you go and this is where the faith part comes in. Because that point, it was almost like, you know, I was. How. How would I put it? I was living for me. If I'm being authentic, I was living for me. I was not talking about my faith. I was not trying to let everybody know that I'm a believer in Christ and all these different things. It was like, I gotta do me. And it goes back to what you said about the chemistry in the locker room. You had a lot of people that did not view that as a positive thing. And in so doing, it wound up being an issue of, well, I want to fit in. I need to be liked. You know, I want to be like everybody else. And I didn't know what I was supposed to do. And for someone that's listening, man, be yourself. You gotta just make a decision to be yourself, because at the end of the day, you're the best version of you that God created to walk this thing out. And I wasted way too much time trying to be someone that I was not at that point. And I was devastated when I was released, and so much so that there were days. Now, keep in mind the upbringing that I had. There were days that I wouldn't get out the bed, Jeff. There were days that I was depressed and I was trying to figure out, well, what do I do now? I mean, I thought my life. I thought everything was football. I thought that this was going to catapult me somewhere different, all these other things, and that was not the case. And it. And it. And it became very devastating. And I know we're losing lighting here. I think a storm is getting ready to come. So I'm have to turn the lights up here a little bit, Jeff, just so we can make sure we're good. But I began to realize that there had to be more. And I'm a firm believer that God will get you by yourself. He will. If you want to be hard at it and you want to act like you just go do whatever you want. He will get your attention because he wants to use you for a greater good at the end of the day. And so I wound up realizing at that point that, okay, I'm going to have to do something different. I'm going to have to grow and hopefully this is okay. But I went to a church service and that was the first time I heard about the death, burial, resurrection of Christ and what he did for me. And that changed my whole outlook. That changed how I viewed things. That changed how I was going to walk out this life and walk out my destiny. You see my shirt? Are you living your destiny on a daily basis? And it was great. It did so many things. That brokenness, that idea that I'm not enough because I'm not playing ball, that stuff started going away and I had to realize that, no, I'm more than that and I'm not going to just exist thinking that football is my everything. And so it was, it was interesting. I played some more after that, and this, this is the caveat that, that I'll never forget. I played some more after that, but there we go. Had to turn on the light. But it was one of those things that now I could raise a banner for Christ. Now I could tell folks that it's not just about, you know, what I want and I'm going to live this life selfishly. All these different things. It was more of how can I balance it while I still have the platform and be intentional with it? And I tell folks that God has a sense of humor because I signed one of the highest paying free agent contracts to go and play with the Jacksonville Jaguars. Jacksonville Jaguars. And got down there and I was excited. You know, I'm running with the first team, we're doing all these good things. And one day, one play changed my life. And you may remember this, but I shared, man, I messed around and tore up my knee. Tony Boselli came off the ball, hit the guy next to me totally. He just destroyed the guy next to me. We stringing the play out. You can relate to all this. Stringing the play out, planted so I could try and rip through and come around. And when I planted, they all came into me. And then, boom, knee just popped. And it was bad, but it wasn't that bad. It was like, okay, it's normal injury. But I was sidelined. And it taught me a lot. It taught me that I was in, in business. I was essentially a commodity. You know, I was like, okay, I'm pretty much done. And no one came up to me and said that. They were very sneaky about it very much, you know, like, yeah, you know, we're going to let the next man up, just keep on going.

Look, they're, they're going to talk about you, but they're not going to talk to you because you are.

That's right.

And now literally. Yeah, now you realize, like, I was, you know, I'm good. I'm good here as long as I'm good here.

That's right. That's right. As long as I can contribute to your point. As long as I could contribute. But, man, as soon as I could no longer contribute, I was done. I mean, it was like, we don't even matter. As a matter of fact, Jeff, if felt a little bit like you're a liability because, you know, and it wasn't just me. Other people had gotten heard and I watched it and I was like, oh, my goodness, like, what's going on? And people were getting put on IR and the coaches were upset because you got to pay that contract out. You got to pay that thing on out, you know, And. And so it taught me a lot about business and the type of business that I didn't want to run or birth, you know, I have more of an idea of developing people and developing opportunities and different things like that. Versus very transactional. What are you doing for me? What can you do for me? If you cannot do anything for me? Then there's. We need to sever ties. And that's tough, man. That's tough when you're talking about dealing with humans. It is.

And I've. One of the greatest opportunities that I've had in business is over 30 years is to be able to have grace with people. Because we're not an NFL, right? We're not like, we. We. We don't have a salary cap and we don't have a limited number of roster people. We can travel and, you know, so you can have a little bit more grace. Because people stumble. People struggle with addiction, they struggle with relationships. And, you know, you. If you can. If you can, impact the people that are closest to you in and around the business. I mean, some people send checks all over the world to help people that they've never seen and never heard of and are never going to touch, but they overlook the people that are closest to them. And business has an opportunity to get into life with people and to really find, you know, you know, really customized ways to, you know, really help people when they need it the most. And that can be anything from encouragement to know rehab to, you know, a plane ticket or anything that they might need in their life. But you got to pay attention. You gotta be close. You gotta be in the pocket boxer's term. You gotta be close enough and you gotta be in the pocket so that you can help people by working on the right problem.

There you go. I love that. I mean, just the way that you shared that. I think many leaders don't get that. And it goes back to, you know, what we were talking about earlier. You have leaders that no one ever told them. You know, I mean, maybe they demonstrated a great work ethic and productivity and all this stuff. And so someone plucked them out and put them in the position and they probably weren't ready fully for the growth that's required of every leader. You never arrive. You're always in a state of becoming. If you're truly a leader, then you know, you have to continue to develop. And it's what you said, man. When you can get in the pocket and be real with folks and take risk with people, great things can happen. But I think we also, like when I was playing in the league, we also have situations where you have leaders who have read certain books by other leaders and they think, well, this is the way I'm supposed to act, or these are the things that I'm supposed to do without really trying it on for size. You know, really understanding, going and talking to people, seeing how they react and, and really getting to the meat of what it means to have followership. You know, there's leadership and there's also followership. You know, you need to understand that followers talk, they engage, they have certain expectations. I mean, you see what's going on right now with the strikes. You know, you have, you have employees that are just like, man, I can't do this anymore. And they want the union to represent, do all these different things. And it's just, it's one of those situations that many of these things can be avoided if we one first lead in a way that's honorable and then we love on folks. You got to love on folks, man. It's just a basic old premise, but it works. You just got to meet people where they are. Because when those endorphins fire and they're excited and they feel loved upon and appreciated, they remember that that's how God wired our brains. In the same way you cussing somebody out or you snatching they pay or you docking them and giving them a 1 on their formal reviews, they gonna remember that too.

Yeah. And you probably get what you deserve at that point. Yeah. Dr. Carthon, I know that I have been following you for 10 years because my son was 15 years old when he played on Team USA and we went and played, maybe against Canada or whoever we were playing at Canton, at the hall of Fame field there in Canton, Ohio. And you were the speaker that was brought in to speak to those young people, and it was so great. And that's where we got a chance to meet the first time. And I've watched your career and have watched the books come out, and so can you share with us how you transitioned into building this inventory of leadership material and what that looks like today?

Well, I think at the end of the day, it goes back to just the desire. And let me know if my sound is okay. I'm getting a lot of it. Big storm that's happening right now.

You sound great. You sound great.

Yeah. Okay. Excellent. Look good, too. It was the.

Look good, too.

Oh, thank you, brother. We gotta get back on the golf course, man. I know it. So. So I think one of the things that I had to realize, Jeff, is that if I'm truly not gonna be an imposter, and what I mean by that, if I'm truly going to lead and serve, then I need to develop tools, I need to develop resources. I need to be able to equip people beyond just the speaking, because I am a huge proponent of, yes, I'm going to come and speak to you, but every engagement that I have, there needs to be a call to action. You need to be different than how you came in that day. And in order for that to happen, respectfully, I have to give you some tools. I'm not coming up there to just do rah, rah, rah. I could do that. I mean, we can get excited and do all this stuff and all that, but I think that once that dissipate, dissipates, and people walk away from that, they're left wanting and they won't even remember, you know, what I said that made them get excited. But if I can say, hey, I'm going to challenge you today, much like you did. I'm going to challenge you today to go and do xyz, okay, and report back. You know, you have accountability. And I tell folks, find one other person that you can tell that you did, that you did this. And what happens when you do that with that accountability. And what I found over years is that that works with people meeting planners, that I work with large conferences, that I go and speak at 10, 15,000 people conferences, they go, you know, when I get the reviews back and the paperwork, you know, from the surveys, they'll just go, man, you are authentic. You are real. And then I couldn't just walk away because you said, you need to go and do this. And so those are the things that I really want to make actionable for people. And I use, you know, I create courses and things like that. So I use an old instructional design technique. No do be. Kdb. No do be. Okay. It's enough to show up and learn and hear from me. So you got the know now. Okay, that's fine. But the next phase of that is The D. The D. Are you going to demonstrate this? And what is this going to look like when you demonstrate it? Are you going to do it for a little bit of time? Are you going to develop a habit like you and I talked about after 21 days, you know, of intentionality? And then finally the BE, where it just becomes who you are. You don't think about it. It's just like playing on the football or basketball, tennis, whatever. You just do it. And then, boom, you're being it. It's just happening. You don't even think about it. So I use that framework for people and I make. Make it very simple so they can do it. Kdb, where you at in the process? Are you just at the knowing point where you got another book that's sitting on my shelf? You can't really see my shelf right now, but all these different books up there are up there. But I've read each of them, or I've started them and highlighted them because I needed to use them to glean some type of knowledge from. And then how am I putting it into play? Am I writing about it? Am I extrapolating it out? Whether it's through an article that I've written or a blog post or whatever it is. And then how am I embodying that, that be part, you know, when I'm engaging with folks and they may be difficult, can I truly bring emotional intelligence into it? Because I've read about it, written about it, and whatever it may be, has it become part of who I am at that point? And so I say all that and I share all that because we only have so much time on this earth, Jeff. You know, man, I'm getting gray, Jeff. I don't know what's going on, brother. You know? Yep.

See that right here.

It happens, right? Yeah. You make it look good, though, man, the goatee. But anyway, I'm getting older, and the only way things are going to exist and last on into perpetuity is if I create something. I have to create something, and I leave it as a part of my legacy. And that's what destiny focused leadership is about, too. And I've Learned something. People may not remember me after the talk. They may not. They, they may be in a bad place or a good place when they're in there, euphoria, whatever it may be. So my words may bounce off, that's fine. But if I leave them with something, then they can refer back to it. You know, if I am intentional with creating quality products and, or tools and resources they can use, great things can happen. Great things can happen. So I knew that I wanted to do that. And that's what I've been doing, you know, over the last 20 something odd years, much like you. I mean, I've been in business now 29 years. 29 years. And I think about that.

I think the first, the first book I had from you was 52 laws of leadership, I believe. Is that correct?

52 ways. 52 ways, yep. Yep. To tackle leadership for your success.

Yes. And can you talk a little bit, can you talk a little bit about the Destiny Focused Leadership? Is that a book? Is that a tool set? Is that a workshop? Can you expand on that just a little bit?

Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. So here's the thing with Destiny Focused Leadership. I have a series. It's a series, it's called Lessons in Leadership in Life and it's a three book series. Destiny Focused Leadership is the second book in that series as you alluded to. 52 Ways to Tackle Leadership for your Success was the first book. And I still have people that will go and get it and they're just like, this is great because it allows growth edges. Each week you can dive in. And the way they're set up is, you know, you, you have the piece and here's a unique aspect of it. You have the part that you may read for that week or for that day or whatever the case may be, however you want to structure it so it's most comfortable for you. And then you have your takeaway tackles because the leadership linebacker. This is what I do. Playing ball, all this stuff. The takeaway tackles give you the caveats to think, think about what you just read. Here's a unique nature of the Lessons in Leadership in Life series. When you read the content of these books, this is real life stuff. Now I've changed some names, of course, and changed, you know, some of the different things, but I've gone into it and I already have clearance from them. But I've gone into places like Warner Brothers Pictures, JP Morgan Chase, Private Banking, whatever it may be. I've gone into these huge companies and I bring back the stories and Write them in a case study format where I'll say, hey, you know, these employees were dealing with this and these are some tangible ways that we dealt with it. Or these are some tangible ways. I'll never forget I've had, you know, HR companies go, not companies, HR leaders in the company go, no, we're not doing that. And I would respectfully. And take the one down approach. Ask, well, you know, is it something the way we structure, do we need to modify it? And we're not going to do that because you're empowering them. And I'm like, whoa, so you don't want your employees and they're straight up, like, not if it's going to cause an issue. And I'm thinking, okay, all right. You know, and so when you get real like that and then you put it on the pages without saying the names and you engage folks, they can relate and they go, wow, okay, so these are real life stories, real life caveats, and based on leadership theory too. Not just like pulling stuff out of the air and then giving them the tools where they can talk about it and then jot down their notes. You know, how am I going to address this, you know, what am I going to do, you know, in order to grow in these areas? Because it's not always the leadership's fault. You have followers that feel like, I've arrived and I don't want to do anymore, I don't want to read anymore, I don't want to do other things anymore. They have some interpersonal issues that they haven't dealt with and they bring them to work and they have conflict with their colleagues or their teammates and it turns into issues. And I address all that stuff in the books. But destiny focused leadership was a great carry on from 52 ways. Because at the end of the day, I believe, and this is the premise of the book, I believe that the leaders are responsible for cultivating their followers. You should be living a legacy, demonstrating a legacy that they can see. So thereby they are impacted positively. And then they grow to develop this legacy. And when you close your eyes for the last time as the leader, that is your legacy. You have created someone who is like you, but they have their own talents that they bring to it as well. They have their own things that they do to sweeten the pot of the organization, okay? And when you step down or you retire or you close your eyes for the last time, that is your legacy. So it's destiny focused leadership. At the end of the day, when you step into your destiny, how you have led how you have loved, how you've encouraged folks. That will be your legacy at the end of the day. And so the experiences from different organizations that I've gone into, some of the premises about how a leader should lead, the mindset of how leaders should approach their work, we talk about all that.

Storytelling and sharing experiences is the most powerful way in my opinion, for people to learn. And giving advice I've gotten now to any time that I'm going to be leading a session or speaking, it's just like the words are filler between the stories, I figure out what I want to communicate. And I'm fortunate is that I have enough experiences in life to be able to go get the stories that fit the situation and weave the narrative together. Because I mean, we're tribal. We, you know, we, we learn and have learned for years and years from stories. And so, you know, the, the book using the examples that you've gleaned from these experiences is gonna be, make the material that much more powerful and that much more consumable for people. So I applaud that. And then you've got a 30 day challenge that you're working on. Now, if, is, is it a weight loss challenge? Because I'm looking for something.

No, you are bad, man. You look good. Don't even try it, Joe, man.

Well, you can't. You can only see my top half.

But so, so here's the thing. So this is 30 days to develop in a leader's heart here. Again, it goes back to your phenomenal question earlier. You know, if I'm going to give people these books and, and these are, this is just one leadership series I've done. I mean, there are other books that I've written as well, but these are the ones that are very practical. And I said, man, if I'm going to write these here again, one of the toughest things that people will do, they'll get these books and they won't crack them open. They won't crack them open because, and there's nothing wrong with that, you know, but you're missing out on opportunities to grow. And so what I wanted to do was I've been, I've been going into universities for over 22 years now, teaching as a guest lecturer, doing all these different things. They'll invite me in to speak on very specific topics like team leadership and all these different things. And I figured out a long time ago you have different learning styles. You have some folks that come into class, man, and all they, they barely look at me. And they're just writing. It's just writing. You know, they're writing because they're very tactile in nature. They. They want to, you know, know I can hear you, but I need to write this so I can look at it later and understand. And then you have others that just sit back, you know, they'll just look at me sometimes, no facial expression, whatever. And they'll come up to me afterwards and go, you know that piece that you shared regarding blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, man, you were paying attention because this year didn't look like you were paying attention the whole time. And then you have others that they get tuned in. Because I do live events too, as well. I realized that when I am at one of my live events, one of my masterminds, one of my smaller events where I only invite 15, 20 people and we work directly on their businesses, okay? They get excited when I do demonstrations up front. You know, I have this thing where I take my putter and I tell folks there's a sweet spot in business. You know, you have to make sure whatever you're going to sell to folks, whatever you're going to pitch to folks, it has to be the right people in the room. You have, if you're running ads, if you're running Google Ads, Facebook ads, whatever it may be, then you have to target the right people. And so I asked them, you know, what's your sweet spot? Do you know who your customer avatar is? And that's whether it's in person. You're back, Jeff. Whether it's a in person store or you're only doing digital marketing, you have to figure out how do you figure out your customer avatar and then target them effectively. So I take my putter up there and I have this. I think it's this 75th anniversary Titleist. It doesn't help me because I'm still. I don't have a very great game. But this, this Titleist, man. And it only gives you a response when you hit it in the sweet spot. And you can hit it all over the place, man, and it won't do anything.

Like what? Like an audible response, like a noise or what? What are you talking about?

It will give you. I. I wish I could. I don't know if I have it over there or not, but I got my golf bag over here. But anyway, when you hit it in the sweet spot, it will literally go ping. And that's how you know.

That's right.

That's how you know. And I rarely get that Sound in the sweet spot all the time. I'll yip it or do whatever. But the point that I try and make with folks is that you have to be operating in your sweet spot if you're truly going to scale your business. I mean, we can all get sales at a certain level, but if you're going to get in your sweet spot and really grow this thing, you got to figure out who you're selling to. You got to be doing the right offer to them, make it a no brainer, the type of offer that you're making to them. And that's when you'll see scalability. Now here's the point. So here's this thing that I've realized over a period of time by creating the 30 day challenge. I give people not only the book, but I also give them a course that they are catered to every day for 30 days. I created a journal that goes along with the course. They get a video from me. They also get a backstage pass and to seeing interviews from me and other people as well where I talk about some of these things that even what we're talking about today. So it's an opportunity. If I'm talking about emotional intelligence. And I was doing a, I was doing a training with a large company that only does they have these huge dump trucks. They do all this stuff with odot and it's amazing. But they were having some challenges with communication. So I had to go in there and that's one of the videos, you know, from the 30 days, you know, and it's not the full video. I mean every video. Because I've learned this too. You can't, you can't overstimulate people with too much information. So every video is maybe between two and four minutes for that day. But the meat of it is when I ask the question, so what did we learn today? How did you see leadership demonstrated in this context? How are you going to grow from it now? Go grab your journal, you know, or you can just type it right into the course, you know, so you can refer back to it. And the reason why I do that, Jeff, is that I found, excuse me, over years. Is that where you are today in your leadership growth or your business growth, your relationship growth with your spouse, your children, whatever you need to track it because typically based upon human behavior, in my research and my studies, it's going to change. And you need those little markers where you can tell where you were growing or where you were sloughing off and you weren't trying to grow. And so the course is that accountability piece. You'll get a little ding that says, hey, your course is ready. I mean, your. Today's lesson is ready, you know, and spend some time with it, marinate in it, you know, And I made, like I said, I shared with you before, I made the cost of entry super low. You know, some of my courses are a thousand dollars where this course is like, I think, 97 bucks or something like that. And the goal is to, most importantly, dive in. Because I believe leadership impacts people in such a way that we all need to realize we're all leaders in our respective spheres of influence. If we understand that, then great things can happen at the end of the day. So that's why, you know, I created the leadership challenge in 30 days to developing a Leader's Heart. And it's a great companion to 52 Ways. It's a great companion to destiny, focused leadership. And after one of my leadership seminars or trainings as well, well, it's all good.

And I've consumed a lot of your material, and it's all worthwhile. And for $97, that's something anybody can do to get themselves dialed up and thinking about the impact that they can make. You know, I think there's over 25,000 titles out there on leadership. And then there's. There's. As. There's as many places in your life and the interactions you have over the course of a year where you can practice it, Whether it's seeing somebody at the mall or talking to somebody who's selling you your jeans or, you know, little kids on a team, whoever it is, man, the children that come into your house to see your kids, their friends, I mean, it's. If you are passive in this life and you let those opportunities to make an impact in the moment go by, then you're missing a great opportunity to. To speak your legacy into other people's legacy. Because, you know, there might be something you say to your son or daughter's friend, and it makes an impact on them for the rest of their life. And, you know, sometimes, man, we just. We get tired and we get lazy, and that's okay, you know, because that's the human condition. But, you know. You know, realize that like you said, man, at some point, these opportunities are over. Everything is finite. And the closer you get to the end, I mean, life's like a roll of toilet paper. The closer you get to the end, the faster it goes, right? So, yeah, I mean, and I've been acutely aware of that at my. I'm 55 now. And I, so now I, I mean, I can pre. Pretty much say, like, I've got this many years and I've had all of these dreams and aspirations and, and things that I've wanted to do. And now I realize it's not someday, it has to be today because there's, you know, and, and maybe the years that I'm, I, I think I have left, maybe we're not even promised. So, so I appreciate it. And so can you share with people where people can go to get in touch with you or the best place to go to look at some of your materials?

Absolutely. And I, I made sure to share some of these links. So whenever the show notes come out.

Those should, they will be in there, there as well. Yep.

But in the interim, you can go to Jason Carthen.com that's where you'll see a lot of my content, a lot of connectivity with me there. And then Also destiny focused book.com as well. And we also have a special link that we've provided to you as well, Jeff, where they can just click the button and they'll be taken right to a page where we can make the checkout and all that stuff easier if they want to be connected with the book. So those two areas and hey, you know how to find me on social as well. So just look for Jason Carthon, Dr. Jason Carthon.

Yeah. So look down in the show notes here associated with this episode and as always, subscribe like and comment on the comment. We want to hear from you and we definitely want to stay connected with you out there. So, Dr. Carthan, heading towards the last couple of questions here as you think about the impact that you want to make in finishing impeccably from here going forward, like, what's, what do you see that's next for you? Anything on the horizon that you can share?

Yeah, absolutely. And that's a excellent question. So, you know, one of the things we didn't get a chance to really even talk about, but I started a nonprofit. It's called the Leaders of Tomorrow initiative. And you can find that at the LOT Initiative, where our goal is to really develop young people and those that may have some challenges in their life, because I remember my story that I shared at the very top of the show. And I want to be intentional with whether it's, we have many programs that we do, but we provide college scholarships. They're called the Carthon Scholars. They go off to college, great things happen. But we mentor them all the way through. We have tackling Hunger program where we actually provide food, book bags, different things like that for school age children. Every year we have the Adopt a Family program at the end of the year where we select families who may have some challenges. And we provide holiday meals and different things of that nature where we can be intentional with more than just talking about it. You know, I mean, literally, my bride and I and our babies and volunteers, we will go and, and be out there and providing food and, and helping the homeless and things of that nature. And we also, you know, we do outreaches at schools because what you talked about earlier, young people have a different perspective, and a lot has changed since you and I, and I'm 53, so we're right together, brother. It's. It's one of those things that a lot has changed since we were coming up. And young people are faced with so much noise, I call it noise, and they try and decipher it, but if they really don't understand the costs associated with some of the choices and decisions, really bad things can happen. So we try to kind of cut through that noise and say, hey, life is all about choices. You have a purpose. You need to walk in that purpose, you need to develop a passion, you need to be persistent in that, and you need to partner with those that have gone before you so you can actually understand how to walk this thing out. Sometimes they don't listen, but many of them will listen. And good things can happen when we do that. So well, that's what we try to do throughout nonprofit.

That's incredible. There's so much need out there, and you don't have to look far to find it. And so, Dr. Cathon, if you had one sentence to make an impact in someone's life, and I know for you, you probably have, you have books of sentences that make an impact in people's lives, but if you could pick one, maybe something that you share with your kids, a mantra, something like that, what might that sentence be?

Speak life to live a legacy. That's. That's I branded on everything. Speak life to live a legacy. You probably hear my baby yelling in the background. She's not buying it, Right? But when. When I say speak life, not only is it biblical, okay. But very practical when you speak life. I'm talking about positive psychological impact that people will react to and demonstrate when you speak life to them. When you speak positivity over their situation versus negativity. And so when you do that, when you speak life, you are not only developing that person in that instant, but you Are speaking life to live a legacy. So long after you're gone, long after you and I are not playing ball anymore or golfing or doing whatever, whatever we spoke life to, then those individuals can now take that and they just continue it in perpetuity. That's what I'm doing for my bride. That's what I'm doing for my daughters. You know, the goal is to speak life to them as much as possible, but at the end of the day, it's not for me to see the fruit. It's for them to see the fruit. So speak life to live a legacy. That's my mantra, man, every day.

It's beautiful. And we're both fortunate to have platforms where we get to speak to a lot of people. So I think. I think that is very wise, and I. I will certainly give that thoughtful consideration. So thank you for sharing that. Anything else?

If I can share one last thing.

Yes, sir.

One last thing.

Yes, sir.

Man. I just have to say to the listening audience and those that will see this actual video of the videocast podcast, that Jeff is the real deal, man. This guy has been the same every interaction I've had with him. Salt of the earth, humble, and he's done some great stuff. He's done some great stuff. You were one of the first ones to give me a testimonial about my book. You were one of the first ones to encourage my heart when I was speaking in front of all those people at Canton. And I just want people to know if you want to be a part of something that is going to be successful, you align yourself with people that are successful and people like Jeff, get to know him, you know, talk to him, you know, follow the show. Yep. Do the likes, write the reviews, all that stuff. But if you get a chance, get to know this guy and check out Home Front and some of the things that he's doing with that and his son as well, from what I saw as well.

That's right.

So it's good stuff, man. This is unsolicited. This is me being authentic. Just trying to talk to y' all for a second, get to know this guy.

Thank you, Jason. That means a lot. Appreciate it.

All right, well, we. I.

This has been an incredible hour to head right for who knows when this drops, but we're heading into a weekend, so we both took our Friday early evenings to put this down, and it sends me off with inspiration, hope, and good vibes all the way around. So thank you, Dr. Carthon, for being on.

Absolutely. You take care now.

Absolutely. And as always, this podcast has been brought to you by Homefront Brands. Simply building the world's most responsible franchise platform. This sounds like something you might be interested in. Reach out to me and I will be looking for you right here on the home front. Thank you for listening.