Liz Elting | On the Homefront with Jeff Dudan #68

Welcome to the home front. I am Jeff Dutton, and we are here with Liz Elting. Welcome, Liz. How are you?

I'm doing great, Jeff. Thanks so much for having me. How are you doing?

I'm doing outstanding, and I'm excited that you're here with us today. I've been pouring through your book Dream Big and Win, which is an excellent representation of your story, your life, and how you built Transperfect. I would love for you to tell us little bit about who is Liz Elting?

Sure. Absolutely. Well, let's say, see, if I go back to the beginning, and I'll. I won't go on too long about my life, but I. When I was young, I lived in Westchester in New York. And then when I was 8 and 9, I had the opportunity to move to Portugal, which was fabulous. And there I was able to start studying French and Spanish. Then when I was 10, we moved back to the US and then to Canada, and I lived in Toronto for a number of years, and there I added Spanish and Latin to my languages. So by the time I graduated from high school, I realized I had loved, loved, loved languages and thought maybe I'd be able to do something related to languages. So that's kind of one piece of me. And I can go on about a lot during my childhood because I do talk about that in the book, because it really, you know, is where I kind of developed my. My values and. And how I feel about things. And, you know, you know, one of. I guess those things is my parents were wonderful, and they really. They focused on learning about the world. And, you know, as a result, we lived in those countries I mentioned. And also they taught me I needed to be financially independent. I could not depend on anybody financially except for myself, not on my parents, not on a man, no one. So that was kind of a key part of how I was brought up. And then as a result, I had a lot of jobs growing up, starting at age 10, and that was really fun. So those are, you know, some of what. Of what happened during my childhood. And I can elaborate on all of that if you think it would be helpful. But that's kind of. Yeah.

What did your folks do growing up? Why were you. What was the. Was a business that you were moving around for?

Sure, absolutely. So when I was eight, as I said, we moved to Portugal. And the reason we were able to do that is my dad had been in first marketing and then advertising, and he happened to have a knack for it. He was really good at that. But he also loved all that was international, so. So he got the right to open Kentucky Fried Chicken in Portugal. He got the franchise. So as. And I know franchises are a big part of you and what you've done and what you've done, so that's pretty neat. But he got the KFC franchise, so we moved there. But right after we moved there, the Portuguese Communist revolution broke out. What were the chances of that? That was back in 1974. So, unfortunately, it became very difficult to open an American business, a fast food business. They were very anti American, anti capitalism. So we ended up having to move from the south of Portugal up to the middle, from the Algarve to right outside of Lisbon. And it was great. It was a wonderful year for me personally, but it became quite dangerous. And after a year, my dad was able to open a few Italian restaurants, and instead of the kfc, because he had a joint venture with a Portuguese restaurant company. And then we moved back to the us so he then worked in Gray Advertising for one more year in New York and then was able to be transferred to Gray Canada. And that's why we moved to Toronto. So that was. My dad really wanted to do something very international, but also was a marketing guy and very entrepreneurial. My mom was in education, so always had a career. She was a teacher, she was a guidance counselor, she was into special ed, all of that. So that's what my parents did. But they really encouraged independence, as I said, and, you know, wonderful parents, really valued education, too. So when I was 17, went off to college in the United States, and there I ended up majoring in languages. Wasn't sure what I was going to do with languages. I remember I called up my dad and I said, you know, Dad, I love languages. I've studied four languages. Languages are my favorite thing, but what on earth am I going to do with the language major? And I remember he said, liz, just pursue what you love. Pursue your passion, you know, and the rest will take care of itself. So I ended up majoring in languages in college. I did my junior year in Cordoba, Spain, which was amazing. And then I worked in Venezuela. Caracas, right after college. And then when I was 21, I came to New York City, which is where I am today, 37 years later.

Now, did you start at NYU for undergrad or did you.

No, the college that I was going to from the time I was 17 to 21 was Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut.

Got it.

And that's where I went. And then, you know, did that, that junior year in Spain and worked in Venezuela. So after So I came to New York City when I was 21 and then had the opportunity as I was passing through New York to. I actually didn't think I was going to end up here. I thought I would go to Washington D.C. where I had a good friend who I thought I might live with. She was going to law school. But as I was coming through New York City to visit my sister actually, who was two years older than I was, lived here at the time, she told me about a translation company. And this was in 1987, so way back in the day. And I thought, oh, I'll call them up and see if they could use someone, because then I can combine my love for languages and business. Called them up, ended up getting a job there. I actually was looking for something in sales. Cause I thought I wanted to meet with clients and solve their problems. They didn't have anything, but they had a job in production. They. So I took that job. I was then able to move over to sales and I stayed at that company three years, absolutely loved it, and then ended up going back to school and getting my MBA from nyu. So that's the NYU connection that you asked.

My daughter's there right now. She's a first year law student.

Oh, fabulous. Law school. Love that.

Yeah. So she's, you know, we're, we're. She's a country mouse. We. I'm a Chicago. I grew up in Chicago, but then got married and raised my family here in North Carolina. So, you know, country. She loves the city and we've been going up and visiting and the food's amazing. There's always something to do. And I think we're gonna end up spending a lot more time in the city. Really enjoyed it.

Oh, that's wonderful. Well, hope maybe she'll end up here, right? I, I will say it's a, it's a great place to live. I've been here, as I said, for 37 years. So maybe she'll end up here.

Yeah, we'll, we'll see. I know. At least maybe for a few years. Yeah, but we'd love to, love to, love to have her back.

So.

So you go to nyu, you go to business school, and then after that you took, you took a job, but for a very short amount of time, I did.

And you know what? I didn't get into too much, and I won't talk about it too much at this point, but that job, after college, before business school in the translation industry, it, it was key in my life. I learned about the industry. I, I Absolutely loved the industry. And that company was about the largest translation company in the world at the time. It was about 90 people. I thought, I love this industry. It's amazing. It's needed, but it can be done better. There was a real gap between what clients needed and what was available in the industry at the time. So I kept that idea in my head, then went back to school, went to nyu, as we said, and got my degree in finance and international business. And the reason I, I chose finance is I thought, well, that's practical, that, you know, I could have a career and I could make good money. I, I would be able to take care of myself. But. And so then, as you said, I, I tried out a job at another company. I got a job at a company called Peresco, which, which was the proprietary trading division of a French bank. And I was supposed to be doing equity arbitrage. And it sounded very important and very high level. And, and I went there and I showed up and I was the only woman in the place. Okay, I thought, I can deal with this. I love men. I've been pretty boy crazy my whole life. And so I thought, this is fine. But whenever the phone rang, all the guys would yell, liz, phone. Because I was the woman. And then they'd say, liz, you know, can you get me coffee? And then I was asked to order supplies. And, you know, I realized, wow, this is a pretty sexist atmosphere. Also, though, and just as important, I was number crunching and paper pushing, and I wasn't doing what I had loved at the translation company. Dealing with translators around the world, meeting with clients, solving their problems. And I thought I loved that other industry and I had an idea about how it could be done better. So what am I doing? So after only six weeks, I quit that job and started Transperfect out of an NYU business school dorm room.

Very nice.

Yeah.

When you, when you had the idea for the business, did you have an idea of who the customer set was going to be and how you were going to crack into the marketplace?

I did because, you know, I had worked at the other company and I'd saw, I had seen, sorry, that basically all large companies, Fortune 1000 companies, all of the large banks, law firms, ad agencies, everything needed language services. So that's who I wanted to target. You know, the largest companies in the world and then medium sized companies and small companies that were going global. So that was the thought. And you know, it's interesting because when I started, as I said, it was out of an NYU business school dorm room Since I had just graduated and I was used to living like a student, so it worked out well. I had, you know, very little money at the time. I just had a few thousand dollars in the bank which had been my life savings from all my, my jobs. Although I did have a boyfriend at the time who I was living with and he actually was in business school debt. He had $90,000 of business school debt. So you know, we really had no money. But and also at the time, what was interesting is there were other translation companies out there. There were 10,000 translation companies out there, but they were tiny. They were mom, mom and pops moms. And so I thought that's what we can do differently. We can make this a world class company with the highest level of quality, highest level of service, with offices in every major city around the world along the lines of a top tier investment bank or law firm. And that was the idea with the company.

That's great. So when. So you would find a company and they would want to enter a new market and they would have to get all their marketing materials translated or is it negotiating contracts? Was it written translation things or did you have interpreters that would actually go to business meetings with people or what's the scope of services, translation services for your business?

Yeah, both those things you just said and interpret everything in else else in a foreign everything as you said, from marketing material to legal contracts to oral interpretations. Basically anything a client needed in a foreign language, like for example, if they needed their annual report translated into 30 languages, we would do that. So it was anything and everything. Both they needed for what they needed for internal use, to deal with clients to deal with, with a lawsuit, to open offices. And it was oral, it was written and, and then it was typesetting, it was cultural consulting. Anything and everything related to foreign languages.

Got it? And you bootstrapped this business. I read in your book at one point and I don't know how it ended up but that you didn't have any venture capital in your business. So you know, if you, if you hear people like yourself or the people on Shark Tank and they'll say don't, don't borrow money for your business. Use the power of broke. Find, you know, don't have all the foosball tables and wine Fridays and all that kind of stuff that you don't need that was really so popular and with all the tech companies and everything. But just, you know, be frugal with your money, bootstrap it, maintain control of your business. Were you able to do that? All the way through or was there a time after you got it up that you were. That you needed to create some leverage or get some funding?

So everything you just said is so correct that you know, I.

Can you say that again? Say that again but just a little slower.

Sure. No, everything, everything you just said is completely correct. And you know, I, I like to say. Oh, I get it, I get it. I thought you didn't hear me.

No, I appreciate that. I, I appreciate you being complicit to a goofball like me.

I need to say, but. Sorry, what I wanted to say is don't conf. Being an entrepreneur. I mean, sorry, don't confuse. Yes. Being an entrepreneur with being an inventor. You don't need to invent something entirely new to be wildly successful. Instead it's about providing the best service and quality and just continually innovating. But as far as your question about funding. Yes, absolutely. I, I meet so many entrepreneurs today and met some back in the day when I started, but now it seems everybody is going after funding. And what I say is no focus on sales. It's sales, sales, sales. You know, I say funding is vanity and profitable revenue is sanity. That's what you need to survive and thrive.

I love that. I love that. That's so good.

Thank you. It's so true. Because you can go out and spend a ridiculous amount of time getting funding and then that doesn't guarantee you're going to have revenue. And it's not. Doesn't guarantee you're going to have profit and you're going to have some very unhappy investors if you don't have those two things. So you really need to put that same effort and more into sales, into revenue. So that's what we did. Sales, sales, sales. As far as your question about did we ever need funding? We never needed it. But what we did after about seven years in business is, and this is because we had our original company, Transperfect, and then we started a sister company called translations.com to focus more on anything in a digital medium. Anything, you know, the technology piece of it. And we went out and got some angel investors for that to grow that part of the company more quickly and potentially go public. But this was in the late 90s and the dot com bubble burst, so it wasn't a good time to do that anyway. And then we realized we were having issues between the two companies because sometimes they would want to be selling the same things like enterprise wide solutions that were anything in a foreign language. And if we're dealing with A client. We didn't want to start sending them to the other company, the sister company. The other part of it is the investors, investors didn't want. They had issues with what the original company was doing, but it was set up to do because they wanted to take all of that business for themselves. So it didn't work. So my partner and I then bought out those angel investors and it was more trouble than it was worth. So that was my experience with funding.

So I just want to take a little segue here for the listeners because I've had this experience over and over again. Well, I've had it several times. You have a company and it's your main company and then there's some part of it that somebody wants to do but the other people don't want to do. So you create companies, one company that might be dependent or as a service provider to the main company, but you've got different cap tables. And what that means is you've got different ownership groups in the two businesses. And now as the businesses grow, you lose alignment and it's very dangerous. And it seems like a simple common sense thing, but I've seen it as first time entrepreneurs, they tend to, well, I want to build this business to do the outsourced sales for this organization and we're going to do it this way. Cap table's different. Well now, you know, you can't really fire that company, but they're doing things, everybody works to their own comp plan. So they're doing things to make profit in that company. It might not be the best thing for the other company but, but you've got this mixed partnership ownership group over here and it really gets very messy. I mean, you know, so I've seen that happen quite a bit. And then I think the other thing that you said that's so important is look, you know, nail it before you scale it. When you get money too early, you have a tendency. Now you've got investors and you've got shareholders, plus you can get a little bit sloppy. Oh, if we spend this $100,000 on this, you know, maybe it will do this where you know, you, you don't and, and maybe you go a little bit too fast. You don't vet it all the way out, you don't pilot it, you don't try it and you don't work out all the kinks. And that's really where people get in trouble. Too much money too early on. An unseasoned entrepreneur that hasn't built something before can they can they can lose a lot of money that way.

Oh, absolutely. And if you're only working with your own money or, you know, the money of the owners and the founders, then you're much more careful with it. Right. And every penny, you know, it goes to. Usually what I recommend is the majority, as much as possible. That money should go to sales and marketing to continue to take you to the next level is. And then of course you need to make sure you're delivering a quality product. But after that you don't need the fancy, you know, desks with the airplane wings on them. You don't need the foosball table. You know, as you were saying, you don't need the windbreakers with your logos. Yeah, you don't need those things. Instead you need a thrifty culture to make sure you can afford you be frugal with the company's money and make sure you don't run out of cash. Because the number one reason companies go out of business is they run out of cash, out of cash. And as you. Exactly as you said, if you're working with other people's money, you're not as careful, you're not as frugal. And we did the opposite. And we actually didn't hire people, we didn't hire salespeople until we had the revenue and thereby profit to do it. And we hired salespeople literally one person at a time based on revenue and profit numbers. And that was critical in our scaling.

I can imagine that a lot of the model for Translation.com was recurring or subscription based stuff. But what about Transperfect? How much of your business was recurring and then how much of it was project based revenue where you were bidding on things?

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, certainly in the early days it was a lot of project based work. Sure. And as you know, you, you work hard, you send out your in. In our case it was thousands of hard copy letters and making thousands of phone calls. Now I know people or with emails or LinkedIn messages, but you send out thousands and thousands and thousands to get one project from one client, but then you spoil the client with quality and service. And then they are likely to come back with multiple projects and those multiple projects are likely to turn into a relationship. And then of course there's the repeat business within the company and referrals and then the referrals outside the company. But back to your question. Over time it became a lot more like contracts, like master service agreements where we would sign a contract with a client for one years or three years or five years if we were lucky. But it's still, even as time went on, even after we'd been in business 10, 15, 20 years, there was still project based work, you know, as far as everything. And that was okay because we knew it would keep coming if we spoiled the client with quality and service. And we did that. And I think that's such an important piece of the whole thing as well, because as we know, it's something like six to eight times more expensive to bring in a new client than to retain a current client. So you need to wow the client with quality and service with every project. And they will, and then they will keep coming back. So it was a combination, but over time it became more contracts and subscriptions and that type of thing.

Well, you wowed a lot of clients because the last revenue projections I saw or numbers were about a billion two with Transperfect. So as a woman led and woman founded business, growing this fantastic business. What are some of the challenges and maybe some of the opportunities that you discovered along the way that you can share with maybe other women entrepreneurs? And you can thank Jenny Bright for that question.

Okay, thank you, Jenny. Yes. Well, as a woman and, and some of them relate to being a woman. And you know, I mentioned part of why I started the company is because I was experiencing sexism in that, right in that financial company, that very brief stint there. So I thought, okay, if I can't change that culture, I'm going to create my own. I'm going to, you know, if I can't play in that sandbox, I will create my own sandbox. And I tried to do that. And I think it's really important to do your best to create that culture. I mean, in the early days I experienced sexism. What I don't, I didn't mention is I did end up starting the company with my boyfriend at the time who became my fiance. We then broke up after five years. At that point we had a company. And so I guess what I'd say about that. But people assumed even though I had studied the four languages, I had lived in five countries, I had worked for three years in the other translation company and he was a year behind me in business school, so he started a little later. People assumed he was the CEO and I was the assistant. So I experienced that. And then over the years there was sexism. Both, you know, I mean, I saw it, you know, and then I saw some of our employees experiencing it. So I think it's super important to set up your company so those things don't happen. And it's everything from making sure you have a great family leave plan when people have children. And, you know, for men and women, maternity and paternity leave, I think that's super important. I think it's super important as a woman leader or a woman who may go on maternity leave to make sure you have a good backup, you know, as you should have a good succession plan in place for every position at. In all times. I think that's super important. You know, as far as what else for women, I mean, I think specific to women, I could go on, but then, you know, is. And I'm not sure how much of that I could do. I mean, I think it's important for women to speak up and not, you know, be silenced. Sometimes men are a little more aggressive, bolder, and women hang back. And I think it's really important for women to be at the table and, and speak their mind. I think it's very important, both as a woman and as a leader to make it about results rather than time in the office and who, you know, who, you know, you know, it shouldn't be political, it should be about results. And then, you know, and I think what's so important then is then once you, you either before you have kids and when you just want your time outside of the office or when you have kids, you, you know, you come in, in the morning, you, you, assuming you're working in an office, you work intensely, you make it about results. And then at the end of the day, you shut down, you know, either your computer or out of the office, and you make it all about your home time, your family time, your personal time, instead of kind of strolling in a little later, stretching out the day and not making it about results. And then of course, the same thing on weekends. And I also noticed with women who worked at our company and they didn't want to see women or anyone really, men as well, who are working crazy hours and who are always on email and texting all the time, because then they thought, well, I wouldn't want to rise within their company, this company, because if they're doing it, then I'm going to have to do it. So I think that's super important too, for, for the right, you know, for employee morale, for the right culture.

Yeah, I mean, work will expand to fill the time available. You, you know, the time that you're the MO. Your most efficient 30 minutes. When somebody calls and says, I'm dropping by the house in 30 minutes, you will clean your entire house in 10 minutes. Things that have been left laying around because everything gets in the closet, the dishes get put in the sink, you've run the vacuum clean. You know, if you would have, you've been waiting all week to do that stuff and now all of a sudden somebody's going to come over and you get that stuff done. Like it's. Yeah, I mean, work life balance is critically important. Be where your feet are, focus on what you're doing, you know, have clear outcomes that everybody's responsible for and then take that same focus and take it into your personal life and invest it in the people. And so it's refresh. Refreshing to hear you say that. Where is what? Do you have any involvement with the company today or how did it, how did the story end for Transperfect with you?

Yeah, so. And that's why, you know, I do like to touch on this issue. So I, I started it, as I said, with a partner. I do recommend if anyone is starting companies or anyone has a partner to make sure they have a proper shareholders agreement because we didn't, we were boyfriend and girlfriend starting out and you know, I, I thought, I want to do this. And he said, I'll do it with you too. But we, as I mentioned, didn't have money. So we didn't hire an attorney, we didn't hire an accountant and we just incorporated and got going. So we didn't have a proper shareholders agreement. The reason you need that for anyone who doesn't have one. I mean, I think in this day and age most people know to do that, but for to establish roles, responsibilities, decision making, dispute resolution, what happens in the event of death, disability, divorce, and above all, if one of you wants to buy the other out or sell, how is the company valued? We didn't have that. So all along the way we had to keep figuring out, okay, who's in charge of what. How are we going to agree if we don't, you know, who gets their way? And it was tough, so you need it for that reason. And then the other thing is, I don't recommend being 50, 50 owners with a partner. I know some people do it successfully, but I know many, many, many who don't. And, and you know, in retrospect, I think if I could have, I would have been more than 50% just so I could have been the decision maker. So what happened is after about 20 years, and I can't say we were getting along perfectly before 20 years because my partner and I, once we broke up, we were Boyfriend, girlfriend, Then we were engaged. And then after about five years, we broke up. But neither of us wanted to say goodbye to the company because at that point it was 5 or 10 million in revenue. And I guess it was about 10 million. And the hardest part was over. So we kept running the company together as ex fiancees. But after about 20 years, it got very difficult. Our goals, our values, or I guess I'd say yes, our aspirations, our goals, our values had really gone in different directions. So I could. I mean, it was a crazy story. It was a crazy ending because we didn't have the shareholders agreement and because one of us was not the decision maker. I ultimately had to litigate, I had to sue. We had a very crazy, dramatic situation. I had to spend $50 million in legal fees to exit, which had we had it set up right, I wouldn't have. And that's why I like to really share that lesson that I learned. But I ultimately did sell after 26 years in business. And so now I am not involved in the company. And, you know, it was such a joy. I learned so much. I worked with amazing people, but now I get to do other things that I adore doing. So, you know, it. That's, that's the situation now.

Well, I know it was an incredible outcome. And $50 million, not a rounding error, not necessarily a rounding error, but also a permanent impairment of your ability to generate some really incredible wealth out of that deal. So congratulations on that. I know it was a really fantastic outcome, although hard fought to get there. Divorces, you know, they say divorces are like that, really expensive, but, but they also say sometimes they're worth it.

They are. And, you know. Yes, exactly. It needed to be done because when things are not, you know, going right, when you're not in agreement with your partner, it's not good for anyone, it's not good for the two of you, and it's certainly not good for the kids or the employees. And it was a challenging time for all, but got through it. And now, now I get to do all the things I didn't have time to do when I was running the company. So, you know, it's definitely at that.

At that moment, you know, I had, I had an exit that was, you know, life, life changing for us. And, and, and not only the selling the business, but also then having 100% of my options and time and everything open. It's a very difficult time for people because you've, you the pressure of performance, your identity, where you go every day, what you do Every day and who you do it with, all of that changes overnight.

Yes.

How did that affect you?

Oh, absolutely, because it was my whole identity. I mean, as you know, when I started, even in the early days when we were only doing a couple million dollars a year, it was my identity. And it was a big deal, as you know, to start a company and to make it so you have 10, 15, 20 people. That's such an achievement. And it was. It was everything. And it was my identity. And the employees were my family before I had my, you know, own kids, my, you know, my own husband, my own kids. They were my second family, ultimately, and I got very close to them. Yes. So then you leave, and all of a sudden you are no longer CEO. And, you know, what exactly do you do with your time? I mean, you know, and it felt weird. I. There were days early on when I thought, well, I need to go do this again. I need to go start a company. I need to go buy a company. I need to replicate this somehow. But that didn't last too long. I realized also I wanted to use the resources, the. What I was able to cash out for and. And my time and try to give back to all the people or to any of the people who didn't have the opportunity I had had. As I mentioned, I had amazing parents. They were great mentors. They encouraged working from a very young age, and they encouraged education, and they made sure I worked, and I had a great education. And so now with my time with our. My foundation, I help support women and people from marginalized and diverse communities and pay for education, contribute to, you know, funding entrepreneurs, and then with public health and hunger and gun safety and a lot of things like that. But, yes, it was very difficult. And, you know, I guess one other thing. I'll say, Jeff, because I've learned this. There's the whole branding thing, which I've learned about, and I think I've learned about how we all need our own brand. I've learned it largely because now, you know, I've recently written my book, dream Big and Win, where I've been sharing the lessons that I learned along the way based on what I did right and the many things I did wrong. And you need your brand, and even if you start your company, your brand cannot be your company. And yes, because all of a sudden, me, after 21 years, I thought, this is my baby. I conceived it, I named it, and then I'm gone, and what's my identity and what is my legacy? And so you need to always keep that in your mind and work hard on that along the way. And then of course, once you move.

On, do you have around your table in terms of mentorship during the time you built the company and then also in that very critical transition time when you were trying to figure out what was next?

I'm sorry, I missed the beginning of what you just said.

I said, who did you have around your table? Who might be who from a mentor perspective? People that were with you as you were building the company and then in that very important transition time when you were trying to figure out what to do next?

Yes, well, certainly as I was building the company, you know, I had my parents that I bounced ideas off of them. And then I met people along the way who were helpful. And I talk about one guy who I met, he was a sales coach that I met when we had about five people at the company. And his name is Jack Daly. Jack Daly, you know.

Yeah. Well, not well, but yeah, I've seen him speak. I had him speak at a YPO event one time and yeah, he's great. He's great. And I did, I did see that you mentioned him in the book.

Oh, I did because I. So are you part of ypo?

I am.

Oh, wonderful. I was as well. So I'm. But when we had about five people and maybe a million dollars in revenue of that. I heard him speak at a Y EO event way back in the day in like 1995. And he was speaking about how to manage sales managers. And I was thinking, we have like five people this company. I am and are my. I and my partner are the sales manager. So. But the point is I listened to him. He was fabulous. And then after that, I brought him back to our company many times, maybe once a year for the next, you know, 23 years. We had over 600 full time salespeople and he would speak to them and jump on tables and he was fabulous. And I think he was certainly a mentor for sales, but just I thought so many of his attitudes and ideas, you know, were great for company culture and you know, so I, I was a big fan of him.

I think, I think it. But he didn't have a. I think I wrote like a hundred things I wanted to do in my life at one of his. One of his talks or something like that. And he's, it's it. The more I go around in business groups, the more people know who he is and he's had a big impact in their life. And. And he's a guy that built several Large, large sales organizations. But then he retired and he started doing Ironmans at, What, in his 50s or 60s or something like that. And he's done, I don't know, hundreds of these things now. And he's probably 70s now.

Yes, he's in his 70s, and he's, I think, played golf in every state. And I mean, he's done extensive travel. He's doing all kinds of things. And I think he's still getting out there and speaking and motivating salespeople. But yes, the Ironmans are a big part of it as well. So he was a mentor along the way. When I sold, I think I thought back, you know, on my parents and how they always gave back and how they believed in giving back and philanthropy and, you know, they taught us we were lucky and, you know, to whom much is given or, you know, if you are successful, you kind of owe it to. To the world to give back. I think that was. I kept their values very much in mind. And unfortunately, they're both still alive. So how lucky am I for that? Because they're 88. 88 and almost 86. But the point is, yes, I guess those were some of my mentors along the way.

Liz, when did you write the book and who did you write this book for?

That's a great question. So I wrote the book because it is the book I wish I had had when I was starting my career, starting my company. And even along the way, the whole 26 years, I could have used it. So that's why I wrote it. I. I tried to make it kind of like a beach read business book, like a fun read, you know, very, you know, a quick read, very kind of vulnerable, authentic, entertaining. And, you know, because I thought, you know, that's what I could have used is I always liked reading biographies instead of just how to books that I thought were a little dry. So I tried to make it a little more like that. And I wanted to share the lessons based on what I did right and what I did wrong, because I thought a lot of business books don't talk about what not to do. So I thought that could be as helpful as what to do. So that's why I wrote it. And I really wanted to share my lessons with people who are entrepreneurs, either starting out or seasoned entrepreneurs, and then just people in business in general. I, I think there's a lot on leadership in the book.

Yeah.

And obviously that is a key part of it. If, if you have the right. If, Right leadership, if you're, if you're Leading properly and your team is leading properly and you've created the right culture. The sky's the limit.

Well, you pulled it off and it's a highly recommend on my list. It's very approachable. You know, we're tri. People are tribal. We live in our stories. And it was just for me, if I get into something and it gets too clinical or too tactical and it just, you know, so your book and you know, it just kept kind of pulling me along. So I'd get into it and I'd read and next thing you know I'd find out, oh, okay. So it just, it's, it's a, it's a good read, but it has some real practical and tactical things, especially for younger entrepreneurs who are maybe thinking about, you know, how they set things up. And of course, some of the things you shared here about just basic stuff, shareholders agreement. The thing that I shared about making sure that your cap tables align between related companies and the problems that that causes. You know, who pays for what? You know, well, we're, we're paying too much share of the rent and we're paying too much of this. So now you're, you have, you're, now you're, you're arguing you're infighting against an affiliated or sister company over, you know, cost allocations when really you should just be working on wowing the customer and what does the customer need? So, you know, these are some easy early flaws. And problem is people don't know how successful they're going to become. So I can't tell you how many incredible entrepreneurs. I was just with a guy, a friend of mine out in Phoenix just had a, you know, just a massive company out there and he started it with a buddy, you know, and after two or three years he had to get the buddy out because it was clear that they had different aspirations, different goals, different energy levels, different lids, you know, diff that they, that they were, they were interested in doing so anyway. Yes, highly recommend.

I love what you just said because you, Those were the two issues, as you know, back to when we started that second company, which we didn't even need to do. We could have had kept it all under one umbrella. We didn't need funding. We were take, we were growing it organically, we're internally funding it, but it was a way for my partner and me to divide responsibilities. But had we done that at the get go with the proper shareholders agreement, we wouldn't have done it. But you're right, those were the two reasons. Because if you have other owners, you know, who's paying for what in their company versus in the other company. And then also you both are trying to grab the same business. So I love what you said. It's all about wowing the customer instead because that's what's going to take you to the top. So love what you just said. Absolutely. Thank you again. You got it. You nailed it. Yeah.

So I'm looking across some of your advocacy and some of your charity work here. A lot of it has to do with health, wellness, education, public issues, economic independence. You've got the Elizabeth Elting foundation that you started in 2018.

Yes.

What do you see as some very current issues that you're concerned about that you're going to use these vehicles to address?

Well, I'm just trying to get involved in all the different ways I can to help people live longer. Help help your productive lives making. So everybody has the same opportunity I did, you know, whether. So you know, that relates to all these different things. So it's everything from, you know, well, you mentioned the health. So heart disease is the number one killer of women and men so very involved in heart disease, American Heart association, cancer. We all know people have been touched by cancer. So I'm in involved in a bunch of different cancer organizations. And the nice thing about that is every day we get one closer to one day, closer to cures with all the different types. So it's well worth the, the commitment and the money. And then of course, you know, education and entrepreneurship are great equalizers. They make it so.

That's right.

Everybody can have the same chance. You know, don't go work in someone else's company and build their dream. Go, go create your company and build your own is the idea. And you can do that with both, you know, education and help entrepreneurship wise, either with lessons or with funding if need be. But I think, you know, you and I are both fans of as little funding as possible. And you know, if we go back to that for a minute, I'll just say even, I mean, getting investors, you know, first of all, then you're not focusing on your own profitable revenue. But also you can lose control that way. And I know too many horror stories of people who ended up selling equity and then they ended up getting ejected from lost control of their company, got ejected from their company when it was their blood, sweat and tears, their, their idea. So I think, you know, that that's important. And then I mentioned, you know, hunger. I work with the food bank and the campaign against Hunger. And then Gun safety, because obviously we know mass shootings and any shooting, you know, suicides.

Right.

Huge problem, you know, in our country. And then Lift Our Voices, which is Gretchen Carlson's charity that she started so that everybody has their voice within a company. So lots of great organizations.

Yeah.

And I'm on the board of a number of them and I'm finding that very interesting. And so, yes, I mean, it's, it's been a very fun and exciting time, but I'm now, through this book launch, I'm getting to go out and, you know, talk to people like you meet, you know, smart, motivated, accomplished people like you, and, and then share my lessons for people who are, you know, starting their journeys and, and it's been so fulfilling. So I absolutely love it.

That's fantastic. And are you speaking? So are you doing a lot of speaking? Speaking to groups or people asking you to come and, and have talks?

Yes, I mean, fortunately, no. And I'm, I'm really loving it. I, I, what did I do last week? I mean, yeah, I, I mean, every week, but yes, I'm, I was at Harvard Business School and Boston Founders Forum last week. I've spoken, I'm actually, yeah, I have a few next week at Trinity College, where I went undergrad, but spoken at everything from JP Morgan Chase to Bank of America to UBS to Morgan Stanley to SAP. So lots of fun things.

Yeah.

But, you know, one of the things I really like to talk about that we haven't discussed is the culture of the company. Because, yes, it's, first of all, I believe in sales, sales, sales from day one through to the end. And in the early days, it's the phone calls and the letters or the, you know, the emails and the LinkedIn messages and the trade shows and being all over people and then, as we said, wowing them with service and quality. But then it's creating, making them into raving fans and making it so they keep coming back and keep coming back. But also you need that culture. You need that winning culture and to be an employer of choice in your industry and ideally any industry. So I am such a big believer in that. And I think that gets created by making sure people are clear on their goals. You know, as we were saying, making it about goals and results and then getting out of their way. So it's hiring the right people, making it clear what's expected and then not micromanaging. And one of the things I talk about in my book, and I learned this from losing people who were sitting right alongside me, but I Didn't know what was important to them. So from that, I mean, I literally had a person who quit and said, I quit. And I'm like, wait, we were dealing with each other every day. I thought you were so happy. They're like, no, I have a better opportunity. So I learned from that. I need to meet with my people that are reporting to me and our leaders need to as well, once a week or once every two weeks, whatever is feasible, really, one on one, to figure out, well, first of all, to clearly outline their goals and to make sure they're clear on how they can get to the next level so they know there's opportunity. But then secondly, to find out how they're doing personally, making sure if they're having any issues, they share them. And sometimes you have to ask them, you know, how they're doing. How are you doing? Oh, I'm fine. How are you doing? I'm okay. How are you really doing? And then you get the good stuff, sometimes after three tries. And then if they're sharing it, you're there for them. And that's very important. And then finally, from a business perspective, you know, how are you feeling about things? And you know, is there? And first of all, I would give my feedback to them, but also I would ask my favorite question and I would do this in these one on one meetings, but I would also do it in employee surveys and exit interviews. I would ask my very favorite question, which is, what would you do differently if you owned the company or if you ran the company or if you.

Great question.

I thought it was because that is how we got so many of our amazing ideas. And of course, the way to grow and differentiate yourself is innovation. And it's how we got a lot of our innovations. Both, you know, whether it was a new product or service or technology we're offering, whether it was, you know, I mean, everything from when we started offering litigation support services rather than just translation services to law firms, or that was from an employee. Or when we became ISO certified, that was the idea of an employee.

Okay.

Or when we got our, we offered transperfect Linguist certification, certifying linguist. That was the idea of an employee. And then sometimes they were things like, why does the 40th floor have an espresso maker and the 39th floor doesn't? You know, those are other things. But those all create a wonderful culture because it makes, makes it so, you know, people feel like they really have say. And then of course they get rewarded when they, they give ideas and they make the company More successful. So I think that's really valuable. Those one on one conversations and getting the feedback as well through surveys and exit interviews, both for their happiness and for the company's success.

Were you a net promoter score company or how did you gauge customers and employee satisfaction?

Oh, wow. Yes. Constant measuring of it. Okay, so in many, many ways, I mean as far as customer satisfaction, I mean, I mentioned being ISO certified and when you are, every project gets graded or, you know, but then also we would send out feedback emails after every project and then we would send out to our clients. We would also send out annual surveys to our clients about how we were doing. So we had a whole bunch of ways that we were constantly getting feedback from our client, as I, you know, mentioned with every project, both from them, you know, and then of course, you know, once a year. And then with our employees also, you know, I mentioned the one on one meetings, I mentioned the employee surveys, the exit interviews, and then along with all of these things, just asking them, you know, speaking in person in events, right. When we had a company event, when we had a bowling event, when we had a VIP client dinner, just saying, how are we doing? What can we do differently? But then we were graded by them as well.

So a big part of leadership is accessibility. And as your company grows big, it's more difficult to maintain that. How many employees did you have at your peak?

When I sold, we had over 5,000 full time employees.

Wow.

Yeah. So all over the world, in over 100 cities. So yes, and that's a great issue you bring up because as a result, because they were in over 100 cities, we needed to find ways to bring them together. So we would have annual sales meetings. So we would have a North American sales meeting where we'd bring everyone from the North American offices together. We'd have an emea, you know, Europe, Middle East, Asia sales meeting. We'd have the same thing for our production team, a North American one, an EMEA one. We would have sales, senior sales manager meetings. We'd have senior sale production manager meetings. Oh, and then we would have Platinum Club, which was our president's club, you know, for. But we made it. And I think this is a very important point too. We made it. So it wasn't just for salespeople because you know, companies tend to do that, right? They, they reward the top salespeople. But what happens to production? And I didn't talk about this yet, but it was one of the reasons I wanted to start Transperfect at the other company. I was at it was always production versus sales, sales versus production, the way it often is at a company. And I thought, I want to create a company where they're both on the same team and they're both rewarded. So I think the way we compensated salespeople was a wonderful way to do it, because once they started being successful, their commissions never sunsetted, so it was very hard for them to leave the company. And I didn't know of another company, certainly in our industry, that did that.

That's right.

Yeah. So that was very valuable. But then came up with a comp plan for production where if they were successful and they were keeping their clients happy with recurring revenues and profit, they made a lot more than they would at any other company in our industry. So from a compensation standpoint, it was wonderful. But then, of course, we needed to do a lot of other things because it's not all about the money. So everything from finding ways to control the hours to the platinum Club, as I mentioned, to, oh, company parties, we would have. We would get our people together and with company parties, and we had them every holiday, you know, every kind of December, January holiday party, and over the summer in each of our big cities. And then we would give out about 50 awards, so for the kind of behaviors we wanted them to continue with. And then lastly, we had wheel spins. We had monthly wheel spins where people who were getting good results would get a spa day or an iPad or whatever it was. So lots of ways to kind of measure people and then acknowledge people for great results.

Well, the recognition. Even though they win the iPad, the recognition of everybody knowing that they won the iPad because they're a top performer, that, you know, people. That little. That. That little acknowledgement.

Yes.

It carries people. It makes us all feel so good.

Yes, you're right. Supposedly. Yes. It's three times more valuable to. To give the recognition in public rather than in private. So whenever it's.

That's right.

Positive. Yes. You do it in public in front of a big audience, and virtually everybody loves that. So you're absolutely right. Great point.

So I know the challenge is in an organization that size with communications, and making sure that things. You're rolling out new programs, changes to the benefit plans and things like that, you have to be meticulous about communications. At what point during the journey did you hire a communications team or did you. Or did that fall under marketing?

So you mean as far as things like.

Yeah, like any. Any program. Any change that you're rolling out exciting things that are happening in the company, communicating the fact that you're leaving the business that you know big things, little things. Because it's, it's very like alignment as your organization grows is, it's difficult at every single level and not over communicating. Not putting so many emails in somebody's inbox that they, they become tone deaf and they just stop reading them. We have all. And one of the challenges we have today is there's so many channels. So we have teams channels, we got Monday.com channels, we got email channels, we got text channels, we've got all, you know, so there's all of these, all of these different ways for people to communicate. Do you have any tips or advice for people that are building businesses right now? Any gold standards on how you communicated with the organization in an optimal way?

No, that's, that's a great point. I mean certainly I remember in the early days before we had an HR department, boy that was tough. But then of course we did. And then the marketing communications team also community communicated a good amount. But I think it's an excellent question because I remember certainly at the time when I left six years ago there were many too many emails. But that's kind of the way of the world and, and to some degree when your offices are in over 100 cities around the world and people are working with one another in different offices or certainly the, the leaders need to communicate with the different offices there go there are going to be a lot of emails. So it's a great question. I, I guess I don't have an excellent answer except I'm a big believer in in person over email because I, I felt like, you know, with the advent of email and now even zoom, it's just too much. But, but I mean email is the worst. I mean as far. Or texting is the worst. I mean you need at least to get on zoom or get on the phone and because I think people rely too much on, on email and text and then we're not having the, the in person connection that we need to have. But I know that's not exactly what you're asking because I, I'm not sure. I, you know, I think maybe the answer is at a big company where you there, there are a lot of different channels. Maybe having one that you stick to just for the, the company, for the corporate communications to the employees just so they don't know where, so they have a sense of where to look for it so they're not getting it from too many different places. You know, is what I think would simplify things because any way to simplify things would be helpful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Liz, any political aspirations for you?

I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, I.

That wasn't a no. That wasn't a no.

No. I don't think so. I mean, I really, I think business is wonderful and I think business is helpful in, in making the world a better place. And social entrepreneurs, I think, are doing amazing things. I also think philanthropy is doing a great deal. I think as far as the government, I think that's where we're not getting enough. I mean it's, it's harder to change things there. So doing it all these other ways for now seems to be working best for me. But I guess you never know. But. Yeah, that's a great question. Very interesting question.

It's thankless.

Oh, I don't know how they do it.

It's so tough for these people and, and you know, when we want the most qualified people to represent our cities and towns and states and all of that stuff and the. That's just, it's so tough. So I, yeah, I guess that's on top. Mine. I just came back from. I spent a couple of days in Washington this week with the. So they're building a replica of the White House called the People's House. And it's half a mile away from the White House and it's a four story, very big corner building that they are retrofitting and it's going to have a lot of the rooms of the White House replicated and it's also going to have like the entryway. But then it's going to be super high tech. It's about 86 million doll dollar project, super high tech. So people from all over the world can come in. And it's, it's really led by the White House Historical association, which was founded by Jackie Kennedy in 1961. Because there's all these artifacts that are in the White House. And it's just a fascinating, it's a fascinating thing. Regardless of which party and what's going on, the White House is an institution. And you know, so a new president comes in. They, there's five desks that they get to choose from. You know, do you want a George Washington's desk? Do you want Abraham? You know, and all of this stuff. And then, and then the artwork, right, they get to pick. But there's one painting that never moves and it's a beautiful painting of John F. Kennedy and it was painted posthumously and they used his brother as to paint the body model. But Then the artist said because he's passed, they didn't want to paint his eye. So his head is kind of down like this and it's kind of inside the front door of the White House. And it's the one painting that just never moves. It's not an option. But everything else they have, they have, you know, all of these oil paintings and, and just all of this incredible rich history of this country. And so they're building this replica thing. But, you know, it's so, you know, I was invited to go there as a, you know, as a somebody who they're looking to invest in this, in this project. And you know, it's, it's. And I've. So I have all of these incredible pictures of the day and going and doing all that and going to the White House and you know, in, in all these different rooms because we had a kind of a private situation going on there after we went to the facility and all that. And you know, I don't want to post them, you know, you know, it's like, because it's like I just don't want to get into that discourse of, you know, mixing, you know, you know, that and, and it's so, it's an interesting tough time. I am talking about it on this podcast, which is heavily listened to, I'm sure, but, but it's interesting, you know, it's, it's an interesting time because it's. I mean, we do care. Like we're home front brands. Like we are about creating financial freedom on Main street usa, helping families create generational wealth, making sure that, you know, like some of the wealth stays on Main street with families because business is 60 small businesses, 60% of our GDP. So when I sold my business, part of my philanthropy or part of my purpose is we got three things really is, but really making sure that we maintain a strong middle class through great businesses that are good for people and that can really undergird all the towns and cities and families so that they do have an opportunity to create a good situation for their self and anybody that they happen to care about. And then we're passionate about children. So we're building reading rooms in schools across the country in partnership with Carson Scholars. And then we participate in operation Home Front helping veterans transition. So we're, you know, so those are three good causes that, that we are, you know, those are things that we think are good for the country. We think those things are good for people. We think it's good for children, you know, that don't have libraries in some of these inner city schools to be able to, you know, give them some of these resources. But there's just so much to do out there, and it's not. It's not hard to identify the need, you know, and it's just sometimes it seems like we should put some things aside and focus on some of these things that are. That are important that I think everybody can agree upon. So I really appreciate all the. I mean, you've got a massive long list of things that you're doing with your time and your energy and probably your money supporting all of these great causes. So I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate that.

No, I appreciate what you're doing, Jeff. You know, that's so interesting. I like that you do that along with everything else you do. And that's very interesting about what you were doing in D.C. too. And, yeah, it seems like what I love about hearing, you know, about what you're doing is you're just continually curious. Right. And, you know, I. That I talk about that in the book too, right? Because, you know, you want to hire people who are curious. You want to constantly be curious, and, you know, you never. That's how you, you know, you continue to. You. How you thrive until the end of time. And I, you know, I. I love it. You. You're just continually doing new things and learning new things and. And helping people do that. So that's one wonderful.

Well, I tell you, the rate of change is forcing it upon us. I know. I can only imagine what's happening over at Transperfect with all the AI tools that are getting rolled out right now and how it's just the speed of change. You need to have creatives, you need to have curious people. The tools are just that, they're a tool and they can't do everything for you. I mean, even in. Even in doing this podcast and getting it right, it still takes a human touch. I mean, we can have AI do all kinds of stuff with this interview and. But it's still. We still have to look at it and say, is that interesting? Like, is that clip interesting? Is that hook? The right hook? Is that, you know, because it's. Because they can't. Those tools can get you close, but they. They can't get you there all the way there just yet.

So.

Yeah, but a lot of the. But I can also imagine, too, especially with voice and all of the tools that are available for translation and things like that, and some of the hardware that I've seen coming out now that is there's actually a piece of hardware coming out. It's a prototype, I think it's called Rabbit. And it basically ties together all of your apps. So it's like, if you want to, you can literally, it's now you just have one app instead of all the different apps you've got to open and close. So, yeah, right. So it's, it's, it's somebody that's even said, you're so lazy humans that we're not even gonna make you click on Snapchat. We're just gonna, all you have to say is Snapchat that picture to this group. And you know, it opens it up and it does all that stuff for you. So there's always gonna be ways. And, you know, and, and all of this, you know, business owners today, especially young entrepreneurs that are in their first time, I mean, they've got to sort all this stuff and I can see how they can get absolutely obsessed with all of these different tools and things coming at them so fast and maybe it could even take their eye off the ball a little bit. So I, I, we had a guy on the show. Was that this week already? I think it might have been Monday this week. It was a busy week. But, you know, he said, well, I started this, I started the business and we had it going great and it was an AI generated business. And he basically said, you know, Google or somebody came out with this change and our business was gone overnight just because they had, they had created the product to fill a gap that if Apple or Google or Microsoft decides to fill it and give it away for free, then it's, you know, your business is done. So really interesting time. And inside of that, as we'll head towards the, we'll, we'll start heading towards the barn here. But in, inside of that, do you have any words of advice for people that may have been just like you in that NYU dorm room today, that are really optimistic, really curious, have great ideas, have all the energy, aren't jaded, they haven't looked up on the Internet and seen that all the good ideas are taken. They still think that they can make a difference. Do you have any advice if you were other than buy, dream big and win, what would be the second thing that you would invite them to do?

Thanks. Well, first of all, I guess, you know, just thinking about all this, I, you know, and I didn't get into this, but growing up, I like all of us, you know, experienced a lot of diversity. I mean, sorry, adversity, sorry, not a diversity too, actually, I lived in a number of places, met on people from diverse groups, but I meant adversity, and I tell some stories about that in my book, you know, and. But the reason I do is because the point is, I mean, I felt so alone. I felt like the underdog, you know, whether it was, you know, from this experience or that. And. But I think it's important to not let those things stop you, you know, whether you're, you know, alone and you're the. The worst, you know, the least talented in a number of different areas, or you almost, whatever. I mean, a lot of things can go wrong to all of us. So I don't want to make it all about me, but I feel like I felt like the underdog. I felt underconfident, I felt shy. But, you know, I think it's really important to not do so much of that and do more believing in yourself. You know, you get an idea, don't think you can't do it. Believe in yourself. And also, don't worry about perfecting it, because I see people who spend a lot of time thinking, is it right? Isn't it right? Should I? Shouldn't I? They do a whole, you know, extensive market analysis, or they just take too long to get going. And to your point, Jeff, then Google or Amazon or whomever is going to take the idea. And I. So just. I guess what I'd say is, you know, don't let anything related to underconfidence, you know, stop you. Don't be a perfectionist about it. Just have your idea. Throw yourself in, work harder than everyone else. You know, one of the things I like to say is, work today like no one else will, so you can live and give tomorrow like no one else can. But do it, you know, throw yourself in, go all in, you know, have the grit and. And then see where it takes you. And, you know, again, all the things we talked about, spoiling the client with quality and service, and if by chance you have to pivot, you know, modify your idea because it doesn't make sense anymore, someone else has taken it, that's okay. You can do that. You've learned from what went wrong, and you pivot with the same values. You know, the hard work, the results, the service, the integrity, and you will. You will get there. And I just think that's so important. So, yeah, I'd say take the risk. Take the risk, because, you know, there. There are other stats out there that there are a lot more people who regret not taking the risk than taking the risk. There was just an article I read on that, you know, don't stay, you know, unhappy in something you don't love. Go put yourself out there. Take that risk because it's very likely to pay off. And if it doesn't, you know, you learn a few new things, you meet some people and then you move on to the next thing.

Perfectly said. We'll end on that. Liz Elting, this has been so much fun and I thank you so much for being on the home front today with us.

Oh, thanks so much to you, Jeff. This has been fantastic. I've loved speaking with you. You're fabulous.

Outstanding. Well, thank you so much. How can people get in touch with you? Where would you direct them and where can they get the book?

Sure. Well, so the book is on Amazon or any other online retailer and also in Barnes and Noble as well. And I'm on social media, all of the platforms. Izelting.

Awesome. Well, fantastic, Liz, been amazing. Really appreciate you being on today. And this has been Jeff Duden with Liz Elting and we have been on the home front. Thanks for listening.