Picking Yourself Out Of Depression: How A College Student Is Making A Positive Change | #116

Hey, everybody. Welcome to on the Homefront with Jeff Duden. I'm here with Jack Scalise. Welcome, Jack.

Thank you for having me, Jeff. I'm very glad to be here and I think this is awesome. So thank you so much.

Yeah. In studio. Very excited to have you here today. I've been super impressed with your content online. Jack Scalise is an entrepreneur and content creator based in Boone, North Carolina, at my alma mater, Material Appalachian State University. With a passion for helping others through spreading a positive mindset, he's currently developing a conversation card game aimed at improving mental health and fostering deeper connections. Jack's brand, the Mindful Project, is on a mission to improve mental health for young adults globally. Set to launch in 25, a portion of the proceeds will be donated to NAMI, which is the national alliance on Mental Illness. And Jack's work inspires mindfulness and positive change both online and in everyday life. So excited to have you here.

Yes, thank you. Thank you.

I don't know how we originally got connected. I think you must have just been scrolling through my feed or I saw you or something like that. And something about the post just captivated me and I was like, okay, this is good. And then I happened to look up and he was like, man, this guy has half a million on the gram. So you've had a great bit of success. Can you share a little bit with us about how you grew up?

Yeah. So, man, I'm so blessed, Jeff. Seriously, I'm so blessed. I grew up with such loving parents. I grew up in a very nice part of Charlotte. I went to a great high school. I went to a great middle school and elementary school. And my parents both worked. They worked very hard. And they taught me at an early age that I had to really be independent and on my own and be accountable and have a lot of ownership growing up. So, man, I give it all to my parents. Seriously. They have given me the opportunity to sit at this table with you, the opportunity to go to school and college and to pursue my dreams. Thank you. They really didn't have a choice. Leaving college, they had a lot of debt, they had a lot of financial struggles, and they both had to end up working while my sister and I were growing up. And, you know, that was hard in our family, but at the same time, it just made us so close together. At the end of the night, we'd sit at the dinner table, we'd laugh, we'd talk. And I just remember family dinner as being one of the most important things of my Childhood. And ever since then, I've really just been inspired, looking at my parents and seeing what they've built and us being able to appreciate and experience all these great things. And I'm thinking, man, I want to build that for my family and my future. And they've just been my reason. Every day I get up and I work as hard as I can, and especially through college, just trying to figure out all these extra puzzle pieces, right? The entrepreneurship, the content creation, the student just doing everything I can to eventually help them. I want to do so many great things for them and help them have more experiences in their life because of all the sacrifices they've made for me. So truly, I've been blessed with my parents, and they're amazing.

Man, what a solid opening. And as a parent myself, man, you can only dream that your children would say something like that. What role did honesty play in growing up? Because it sounds to me like your parents didn't sugarcoat things. And you have a very realistic worldview, economic view of what people are having to do to build a family and to raise a life. Were they candid with you?

I have an Italian mother. If that doesn't answer the question, okay.

Well, there you go.

So it's always like that. And I've always appreciated that. And I think one thing people always tell me about myself, which I don't like to talk about myself, but they always say that, Jack, man, like, I always come to you for advice because you're always so real with me. And I always give that to my mom and my dad because there's times, you know, where I have an idea or I'm about to do something, and they'll look at me and they're like, it's not a great idea. And, you know, when I was younger, I wouldn't listen to them. Yeah, I would go do that or do whatever. And I come back and be like, man, you're right. But I don't think people realize that until they get older. And I actually realized that right when I came to college. I remember my dad and my mom sitting me down the day before I left for college, telling me, oh, you're gonna experience this, this, that. And, you know, I'm sitting there, I'm like, no, I'm not. And, you know, a week later, they're getting a phone call like, how do you guys know this? You know, I'm like, how? And they're like, we've been there, done that. Like, that's. That's. That's how I've Always been raised. And I'm very grateful that they've always been just so honest with me. It's. It's really helped guide me to where we. Where I need to be, you know?

So, I mean, a couple of things. People. When people have asked me about anything about parenting, which is infrequent, but doing all the coaching that I did, youth coaching, sometimes I would get questions about it and I would, you know, there's really just a couple things. Well, first, you know, unconditional love, right? You don't need to catch a pass or, or make a touchdown or do anything. The love is unconditional. Number two is don't rescue if somebody makes a mistake or they're going through a hard time. You gotta let people work through it. You're gonna gain muscle memory by going through hard times and figuring things out and not sugarcoating mistakes that you might have made. Like, we have to sit here sometimes. You just have to sit in awareness and take accountability for what we did. And that's when you learn, like, if you never get burned by a stove, you might never learn that it's hot. And then the third thing, which is, I think the most important thing, which I saw this pattern so clearly in the parents and friend group that we grew up with, was don't lie to your kids. Like, if they didn't make the team, don't say, well, you know, you didn't make the team because those girls were this or those guys were that or whatever it is. Like, you didn't make it. But if you want to make it next year, then here's some of the things that you need to do. If you're willing to do these things, you'll probably increase your chance of making it, but nothing's guaranteed. It might not be the thing for you, but if that's what you choose to put your hands to do this. And then other simple things like, you know, the cat died. It didn't run away. It didn't. We're going to find it. Like, no, I ran it over. You know, I'm sorry, but I mean, it's. But like, here's the thing. The moment your kids detect that you're lying to them, you lose them forever. Because now you're just in this group of parents that everybody like, number one, they think you're stupid because you know what's going on, but you act like you don't know what's going on, so they think you're stupid, number one. And number two, they know they can't trust You. And at that point, I see that's when fractures happen. And it's a hard thing as children grow up through, you know, that 7 through 11, they believe everything you say, and it's great. 5 through 11 is great because they can get in the car, they can dress themselves, they can do their own thing. Then you get into the teenage years, and there's different phases of. Because think about it. You're 13 and you're 18. You're going from being 100% dependent to 5% dependent. So you can go through. There's rough times inside of that. And then now I'm in it with where I have adult children, and that's a whole different thing, too. But, like, if you. If you. If you lose them anywhere along the way, then it's probably not going to get better. It's just going to get more distance. So. I really appreciate what you said about your parents. And as I was hearing it, I'm like. I'm like, this guy got the real stuff from his folks.

Yeah, it's been. It seriously is great. And you talk about leash. I think that's what I was really talking about with the hot stove and everything.

Yeah.

My parents gave me enough leash to where I was able to kind of figure things out myself. But, you know, they would pull on that leash if I wasn't doing something right. And I think that's what kind of guided me to my own independence and figuring out the mistakes that I needed to make. Because at the end of the day, they want me to be accountable for everything. So they. I realized. I don't even know when I realized this. When I was sitting with my best friend and business partner. Shout out to Nathan. He's my best friend. I love him. He's. He's in all my mindful project videos.

Okay.

We were talking about this one day. We're like, man, we were. We were raised so well because at the end of the day, we're harder on ourselves than anyone can ever be on us. And I think that is when you really wake up and you're like, wow, my parents did a great job. I'm so grateful. So, yeah.

Awesome. So you've got a lot of business going on right now. You've got partnerships, you've got sponsors. It looks like you've got projects going on. Did you have other early entrepreneurial experiences?

You know, other than the occasional lemonade stand outside my house?

Oh, is that right?

Yeah, I did not really have much. I was thinking about that the other day. You know, I grew up watching Shark Tank, and I still watch it. I watch clips every morning when I eat breakfast. Just my 10 minutes of shark Tank every day. Because I just love learning about businesses. And truly, when I sit in this room and I look at everything on the wall, I look at everything sitting on this table, I'm like, everything was made by an entrepreneur, Everything was sold by an entrepreneur at some point. And I think that's amazing. There's just so many different avenues you can go down with entrepreneurship. And it really makes me think that, hey, if this doesn't work, why don't I just pivot to this? Because there's still a need for this. Right? And I think just having the expansiveness of being here in the United States and being able to do that is just incredible. So growing up, I did not really have much entrepreneurial routes that I took or anything like that. I didn't start any businesses in particular, but I was definitely always interested, and I actually always knew I wanted to be my own boss. Even when I was young, I always told my mom, I. I was like, man, I love my sister, but I hope she works for me one day. You know, it's just that type of thing. So I've just always been very entrepreneurial in that way.

Yeah.

Do you.

Anything else you did growing up, Sports, hobbies, would you fill your time with?

Yeah. So I was always busy with sports, and I think sports was a great thing for me in high school. It kept me out of trouble. That was a big thing. I played baseball, I played soccer, and I swam all at the same time. So my parents are running around town also. I have amazing parents. They run around town taking me from baseball to soccer practice one day and soccer right after that to swimming. And every weekend we would have to go travel and go to all over North Carolina or South Carolina, Georgia, you name it. We were traveling everywhere. My sister was a swimmer as well, and I think just me playing all those sports foundationally taught me how to be a good team player. Right. And be a leader. I was captain a few years on my soccer team. I always felt like I always was a leader in that sense. I never wanted to be a follower of people. I always wanted to lead and teach people how to lead within their own groups. Right?

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's. Sports was great. And then, you know, once the whole sports started stopping. And in high school, I actually transitioned into weightlifting. I got into, like, powerlifting and CrossFit for a while. It's kind of crazy. I was doing all this, all these types of training. And that was also really shaped my mind and my mindset moving forward to where I am now. So I'm very grateful for all the sports and physical training that I had to go through because it really prepared me mentally for everything else. So, yeah.

Best and favorite sport that you played.

I've stuck with soccer the longest. I did. I did stick with soccer the longest. And it was funny. My mom was telling me the story the other day on my senior year. We had our senior day for soccer, and at halftime, the parents walk you out to the middle of the field and they call your name and, you know, they say stuff about you and. And as I'm walking to the center of the field, I looked at my mom. I'm like, I should have played baseball. And she will never forget that. She told me about it the other day, and I just thought that was so funny. Baseball was always. Actually, I wanted to be like professional baseball player when I was younger, and I kind of just fell out of love with it a little too early. And as I played soccer, I actually went through some injuries and some of that stuff. So there were definitely some moments where I was like, man, what. What could have baseball been like? But I'm glad I did what I did. Yeah.

You're a student at Appalachian State University. Beautiful. Boone, North Carolina, just experienced a big hurricane there, so we'll probably touch on that a little bit later. How did you pick App State?

Sorry, this makes you laugh.

Mountain climbing or.

Truthfully, Jeff, I barely got into App State, and I'll be completely honest with you, because my senior year of high school was the COVID year, so by grace, I was able to get into App State because I didn't have to submit an SAT or an act. My GPA is what really got me into App State. And even then, it was a close call. My mom always mentioned, I'm telling you, but no, I'm very grateful. App State was one of two choices, really. I looked at UNC Charlotte and my parents were not going to let me go there because it was too close to home. They said, you don't want to be that close to home. And I'm like, well, I'm like, that campus is really nice. And like, no, you don't want to be too close to home. I said, okay, let's go check out App State.

Yeah.

And we went on like, the crummiest day of the year. I mean, you couldn't even see, you know, the giant bell tower in the middle of campus. You couldn't even See the top of that thing? So it was just a really crappy day outside, and I'm like, I actually really like this. So, yeah, we looked for, like, two hours. We didn't have an official tour or anything. We just kind of walked around campus, and I was like, you know what? I could see myself going here, and I want to go here. So I chose App State, and, man, it's. It's beautiful up there. Like, seriously, it took me a while to warm up to it, but you could really sit up there and appreciate just the mountains and the peace that it brings and the seasons that it bring. I mean, it's just amazing. And. And you went there as well. And, I mean, going back to it now, how much has it changed?

Incredibly so. And I. I came in. I came in on a football visit, and I flew into Charlotte. They sent down an assistant coach to pick me up, and we drove up and the hour and 45 minutes, two hours through the mountains to get there. And I'm a Chicago guy, and I was just looking out the window, and I'm like, this is really cool. This is beautiful. And, you know, we're climbing up the mountains, and I'm like, where are we going? You know, where are we? And then we showed up, and it was a lot smaller campus. I think maybe 12,000 students when I was there. I think it's well over 20, 25,000 students now. So, I mean, it was just a. It was a quaint mountain town. The people were great. I went on a couple other football visits. One in the Southwest conference, one in the Southeast Conference. Those visits were quite different than my visit to Appalachian State. I mean, we went to booster parties and, you know, all kinds of things. And then I come to Appalachian State, and it was during the week, because I came out in December, and they hooked me up with, you know, one of the offensive linemen to take me around, and they, you know, they gave him this little check. They would give the guys, you know, 20 or 40 bucks to take you out. Went and had a dinner, and he said, oh, we're gonna go see some people. And we just went. And, you know, three or four people here, three or four people there. Nothing fancy. And I'm like. And I'm like, this is perfect. And the coach at the time, Sparky woods, actually was flying out, so he flew home with me, and he took me to my dad, and he said. And we went and he took us out to dinner, and he said, if you just send him back, we need what he's doing. If he goes to those other schools, you know, he may or may not play. It's going to be very competitive. If he comes here, he'll play. He'll get two full years, you know, and, you know, no guarantees, but we think that he'll be our guy. And, you know, do you want to come and play and do you want to go to an accredited business school? Do you want to go where Dino Hackett and John Settle had just played, which both went to the NFL? And I was just like, this seems like a place where I can be successful. And I'm so glad I made the choice. It was a foundation for us. And then you live in student housing apartment. What year are you now?

I'm a senior, so I actually live off campus now.

In a house. You live off campus in a house? Well, you got Winkler Management, Holton Management. We painted all of their apartments.

Really?

Yeah. So we started the painting business and we did all the student housing apartments there and it was just a great experience. What is your degree in? What do you study?

I'm in general management right now. So I'm at the Walker College of Business. Business right now.

Okay.

Yep. Finishing that out this year.

Awesome. Awesome.

Yeah.

Well, let's get into, you know, the success that you've been having. You've got something called the Mindful Project. Tell us what that is.

So that's actually stemmed from college campuses. So I actually did struggle a lot at App State and it's, you know, now I say I just love it, it's absolutely beautiful. But I really had to embrace that environment for a long time and I couldn't even walk on campus some days.

So what was it about the experience? Was it the fact you showed up there without friends and you had to kind of make your own go of it or what was it for you that was challenging?

Yeah. So, man, there's definitely a lot. I'll kind of start from the beginning, though. I went to App State knowing a few people. I had actually a lot of people from my high school go to App State. And at the time, you know, I had some friend. I had a really good friend group in high school, but none of my friends actually went to App State, so it was just kind of me. And I knew I had to meet more people and I kind of had a random roommate, but we ended up being really good friends at the end of the year. But he was still new, so everything was just new. And when I moved in, my parents helped me move in. When I moved in, I moved in Bowie Hall I don't know if you know where that is.

Sure do.

And it's. It's an old hall.

It is.

And my parents.

It was in 1989.

Right. And we're. We're carrying. We're carrying my stuff up the stairs, and it's probably one of the hottest days in Boone, 97 degrees. And we open up the door to my room, and my parents go, man, my room in college is nicer than this. That's what I was like, thanks. Like, this is gonna be great. And, yeah. So, you know, I kind of slowly adapted to the environment. College is one of those things. You look at all your classes, you're like, man, I have so much free time. I only have class three days a week and for two hours. Like, this is great, but you have all this extra time sitting there. And I used to fill my extra time with watching TV shows, you know, just kind of not really doing much.

You play video games?

I didn't actually bring my Xbox or anything, so I didn't have any video games or anything like that, But I did watch TV shows and kind of just you know, talking with the people on my floor and whatnot. But what I started to realize freshman year was that environment was not where I wanted to be around. It was really just solely living for the weekends. A lot of people like to party and all do all this stuff. And truthfully, by the time I got to college, I was like, I don't. I don't want to party. I don't want to do any of this stuff. And there are a bunch of Friday and Saturday nights where I would just, like, walk around App State by myself and just, you know, kick a rock as far as I could and just keep walking. I was super lonely. And, you know, that's the. That's number one reason why people are unhappy. I felt like no one was there for me. All my best friends actually went to college outside the state. And I remember calling one of my friends maybe the second week into school, and I'm like, man, dude, I really feel like I don't belong here. And he still tells me that to this day. Like, man, dude, you're still in school. You're still, you know, you're about to get your degree. Like, that's awesome. And I'm like, yeah, man, but it's taking a lot to get here. So I always felt lonely in that sense. And then I went back home for a winter break and second semester kicked in, and I had the worst anxiety I've ever had. I mean, Jeff. I was waking up every day and throwing up. Like, I didn't even tell people about this for a long time, but I would wake up, throw up, and be like, okay, today's the day. Starting off my day like this, I started my day off like that for, I want to say, four months. It was, yeah, it was pretty terrible. I would sit in class and I'd always have that feeling like I was like gonna get sick. And it was just a really hard, really hard time. So I realized at that point that I wasn't very goal oriented with anything that I wanted. I wasn't surrounding myself with the right, like minded people. My mindset was very poor. I looked at life through such a bad lens. I mean, I was saying. I was saying the word hate all the time. And I tell people not to use this word. Using the word hate is one of the strongest words you could use. It's a negative affirmation. If you use that word, it starts to compound into daily, into your daily sentences about things that you don't actually hate. Like, I could say, I hate this water bottle. Do I? No, you just don't like it. Maybe it's maybe because it's open or maybe because the cap isn't twisting on correctly.

Maybe because it's empty, right?

Yeah, Like, I hate, I hate this water bottle. But how many things about our day are we gonna say that we hate when realistically, we just don't like it? So I had to start switching my mind and switching the environment that I was in. So once I stepped out, freshman year, I got very goal oriented. I bought my first camera. I was like, I'm gonna start posting on social media. I got, I got pretty big in the gym at the time. Yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna start posting on social media and just start making a name for myself because I really want to do something different. I'm like, there has to be a reason why I'm sitting here at night wondering what I want to do with my life with no one around me, no one pushing me to do anything. Like, I need to have an audience of people that support me for what I like to do. So that summer I dedicated it all to just going all in on content. Bought my first camera. I was the happiest kid ever. And I just started posting on social media that summer. I believe that was summer of 2022. And then I started getting noticed. I remember the first month I did like, I had two videos that hit like 20 million each. And ESPN contacted me and they're like, hey, we want this on our. On our. On our page. I'm like, wow, this is awesome.

And what platform was that on?

So through my Instagram, I think Sportscenter reached out to me.

Okay. And then they say it was Instagram.

Yeah, yeah. On Instagram. Yeah. I solely did Instagram at the time.

Okay.

And so I just started posting content.

20 million?

Yeah, 20 million. And that was, like, unheard of at the time because that was still.

I mean, I hardly get 10 million in my posts.

And it was like the. It was just new at the time because it was all. The gym influencing was still, like, a trend.

Yeah.

And I just started just doing my own thing.

Because it was gym stuff.

Yes. It was all gym stuff at the time. And, you know, I really built a good platform, and I was. I was proud of that, but at the same time, I wasn't proud of the person that I was becoming on the inside. So every day I would grow. I feel like I was just digging a deeper hole. And it just started that negative spiral because I would get all these comments, like, hey, Jack, like, you're my inspiration, dude. Like, you're my role model. And I look at myself in the mirror, I'd be like, man, I'm. I don't like myself at all. Like, you guys have no idea. Like, I put on a smile for the camera. But internally, I was struggling.

So big imposter syndrome.

Huge.

Like, okay, people are counting on me. Plus, you know, anytime that we start to get attention, it's a slippery slope because, you know, your. Your role is not your identity. And so now you're in this role where people are looking up to you and you're having the success, but your identity is incomplete and you're not happy with yourself. And now you're like, well, am I deceiving these people? And then probably, if you're looking at the comments, I assume there was negative comments a lot. Yeah. So, you know, and you listen to Rogue, and he's like, I don't look at it. You can't look at the comments.

You can't really.

It'll kill you.

It will.

Yeah. So it's interesting. So there was. So as you started having success, your identity was not caught up to the role which now you were having success in. That's right. And that creates this dividend. And how did you deal with it?

So I've seen a bunch of influencers kind of go down this route, and there's either two options. You either quit or you keep going. And at the Time I was just. I was trying to post more content, but I just. I wasn't feeling like myself, to be honest. I was sitting in my room, I was crying. I was crying a lot. I was crying almost every night that, you know, that second half of 2022, I just was broken and I just didn't know what to do. And I think at the end of the year was I did. I did some things I wasn't proud of. And that was when I was really at the point of, like, not only giving up on social media, but just everything. Like, I didn't even want to be sitting here with you, you know, I wouldn't even be sitting here, truthfully. And I don't really like to dive into that because it was just a. It was a really hard time on my half. But I didn't tell a lot of people how much I struggled because I always thought that, you know, you shouldn't talk about those things. I've. You know, I didn't know a lot of people that were opening up about mental health. And right at the time, I never really, like, believed it, but I was so. I was so in it. Like, I didn't even know my own reality. I would wake up. Honestly, I didn't want to wake up every day because I knew the second I woke up, my mind would get in that negative space, right? And it would just consume me all day. The amount of energy it took for me to just get up and make my bed and to get up and cook and. But I would just hide it. All I would do is the second I would open my door into my apartment, I'd be like, here's Jack, you know, like, here's a happy Jack. But no one really knew. Like, I was pretty miserable at the time.

So I want to share something with you, just because it's topical to what we're talking about right now. It's a guy named Dan Sullivan. He has a company called Strategic Coach. He's probably the preeminent global coaching organization in the world. He's been doing it for 35 years. He has 20,000 people that have come through the program. Huge business, 40, $50 million a year. And he wrote a book called the Gap and the Gain. And I've read this book, and it is such a simple concept, but when you're in the Gap, you are thinking about measuring yourself against an ideal. And it creates negative thought, negative cycle, negative this, negative that. Because it's. You're never happy with who you are right there in the present. And Then when you're in the gain you're thinking about, you're giving yourself credit for the progress that you've made, and you're not measuring yourself against an ideal, yours or anybody else's. And it's such a simple concept, but he wrote. But then the book is like, I'm like, okay, I get it, but the book is pretty thick. And it really, it gives you tactical, practical ways, and it's for business owners and entrepreneurs generally. But it's like, if you're in the gap, you're never going to be happy. It's going to cause you to be negative, it's going to cause you to be indecisive, it's going to cause you to be fearful because you're constantly thinking, I'm not measuring up. It's not enough. And really, you're going to get fulfillment and happiness from taking stock of the progress that you've made and then really measuring it backwards and then saying, and then now you're in a better mindset to go forward. And it sounds like that's exactly where you are.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, at the end of the year, you know, I just, I didn't even know what to do with myself. And at that point I was like, okay, things have to change because where your focus goes, your energy flows. I'm like, I need to start doing things that help my mental health and put myself first to make sure that I'm okay, to help the people around me. So I started journaling. And I remember at the front of my journal, I put goals. I put a three, a six, a nine, and 12 month goals. So, yeah, basically goals for the next year, But I just broke them up into little, little increments. And I actually looked through my journal the other day. It's pretty incredible. But every day I would journal to myself because if you're not able to dissect your thoughts and sit in a room in silence, I'm big on silence. So a lot of people fill their filter, fill their time and fill their noise with music. Right. Or podcasts and stuff. And I think that's okay.

Scroll.

But you have to be able to have shower thoughts is what I call it. Right. You know, when you sit in the shower and you're just thinking about, you know, what's happening next week, what's happening tomorrow, maybe even what happened today, you need to be able to have those moments throughout your day. Because if you don't understand your mind, I mean, your present moment and everything else moving forward, it's not going to work your way, right? So I had to figure out to deal with my shower thoughts is what I called them. So anytime I was overthinking, I would write it down in my journal. I would write it down, and there are some days I would write three pages full of all my thoughts going on. Hey, man, I messed up here. That's okay. We got to keep moving forward. Hey, man, I messed up here. We got to go. We just got to keep moving forward. And I kept journaling through that process, but I almost dropped out of school at that point. So it was the second semester of. So this is 2023, second semester of my sophomore year. I had to call my dad every day. Dad, I don't know what I'm gonna do here. Like, I don't even know why I'm in school. My grades are failing. I'm gonna fail out. No, keep going. Stay in it. You know, he would send me podcasts, like Jocko Willink. He would send me stuff by, you know, David Goggins at the time. Just being able to be like, hey, man, you cannot overcome. You can't change your past, but you can start where you are and change your future, right? So just being able to take ownership. Ownership was one of the most staple things I learned at the beginning of 2023. If I didn't have ownership and accountability for everything I did in my past, I would not be the person I am today, and I would not be sitting here. And my dad reinforced that every single day. And I'm so grateful for him because he's literally the reason I've stayed in it. So from that point, I set my goals and I just started posting content. And my content wasn't even for the purpose of, you know, like, trying to get more followers or whatever. I just wanted to teach people what I was learning through my hardest times. So one day it'd be about positive mental health. One day would be about. I don't even know what else it would be about. I do, like, affirmations. I would do stuff about psychology because that's all I was studying. I'm like, why is my brain this way? And what I learned is, you know, the first initial thought of the human brain is negative, and we're just genetically wired like that, right? And the only way to break through that is to sit there and be like, do I really have these problems? Right? Like, we're worried about safety and security all the time. But, man, I got a roof over my head. I have running water. I have all these things. And when you start pointing out the gratitude and the things in your life that are going really well, you stop looking at all the things that are wrong. And that's how you continue to progress through that really, really difficult time. I found that the only way at that point was up because I was in such a deep hole. And so I just kept posting content and people started liking it. And then, you know, I got picked up by gymshark and I got all these other brand deals coming in and I'm like, man, this is, is incredible. And I started growing and I started, I not only started growing on social media, I started growing into a person that I wanted to be for so long and a person that I was proud of. And I just wanted to use my platform to spread that kindness and joy. And people think to this day that, oh, this guy's going through stuff. He's always smiling, he's always happy. No, like, I've just experienced so much pain in my past that I know how to deal with that pain right now. If something were to happen right now, I'd understand that it's not why is this happening to me, it's what is this teaching me? And I'm able to move forward and look for solutions in the problem. So I'm very solution based now. I'm just like, okay, what's going, like if there's something going wrong, okay, what can I do about it? What can I control? And if I can't control it, then, you know, that's it. Yeah. I mean, that's it.

Yeah. So, you know, you talk about shower thoughts. And one thing that I've always tried to teach entrepreneurs is that the music is made between the notes. And you need to find as an entrepreneur and you're building a business, you've got people you're responsible for, you've got obligations, you've got customers. There's the business of the business that you have to show up and do and be accountable to do. But getting two to four hours a week to put the phone down and maybe if it's with a microphone or if it's with a whiteboard or if it's with a notepad or if it's with a journal, just to be alone with your thoughts. Because after you settle and all of the noise starts to go away, that's only then when all the dust settles now you can see clear and far. And so giving yourself the opportunity to make the music between the notes of busyness or family or other obligations, you've got to give yourself that time. Otherwise you're just a hamster on a wheel and you're just rolling, rolling, rolling, and you're busy. But when you get off, you're the same place where you started.

Yeah, I mean, that's incredible. I always talk about like the boiling water thing. Like you can't see the truth. You can't see your reflection in boiling water. The same way you can't see the truth in like the state of anger or just the state of anything. Right. The water calms, clarity comes. Right?

Yeah.

That's what I like to say to myself. I say it to myself every day. And that's why I start my day with journaling and meditating and prayer, because it's just. It humbles me and also just get. Gets my heart still for the day ahead. I think that's just really important for me and that's what I've seen that's worked well for myself.

So, tactical question, these videos that you were making, how long were they? And I mean, I've seen quite a few of them. Some of them were pretty tight, pretty short. And other ones, I mean, what was the content like in terms of just the structure of it?

So that was still when I was in the gym space. So I actually transitioned out of the gym space earlier this year. But for the rest of 2023, I would say February to the end of the year, it was kind of in a format where I would post like pictures of me in the gym and then the last like three slides, which were about three minutes or so because you can only do on carousels. You only do a minute at a time per slide. I would do about three minute videos about, you know, gratitude, overthinking things that people would DM me about and just like make videos on that and also have like a long paragraph about it. But I really just talk about what was on my heart and also like how my mind works. I think people are really interested in how my mind works. And then as I kind of transitioned out of the gym space and more to my own personal brand because I felt like my voice needed to be out there and my face needed to be out there more rather than my body and everything else. I also saw that gym market was kind of saturated. So I just really wanted to be my own personal brand at that point. And so I just started making shorter messages that really resonated with me. And at a certain point I start to just repackage them just in different forms of content just to continue to get the message out there. Because people need to be reminded more than they need to be taught. So if I'm able to remind people every day to have a better day, to have a more positive mind, then that's what I really want to do with my content moving forward.

Do you read a lot or where do you get. I would say my observation would be that you're very well read because you've referenced a lot of very solid concepts, psychological concepts, motivational concepts. So listening to Jocko or some of these other things are Deck Goggins, you know, they're gonna give you these practical, tactical things for motivation and mindset. Is that where you get most of your content from or do you read?

Yeah, so I do a little bit of both. I love listening to podcasts. That's awesome. I used to actually listen to like three hours of a podcast every day last year because I was trying to become this like just really well wired person. I was kind of just on my. I was, you know, single and I was just kind of doing my thing and just really focused on like my growth. And I started a business at the time, so I really wanted to optimize that as well. And I knew that a lot of it was in my mind. So a lot of it came from podcasts, a few books, and then I just like to read a lot about this stuff, man. I mean, it's just really cool to understand the human mind and psychology and of course like master. I almost want to talk about like mastering like myself, like getting to the top of my own mountain. Because I always say you're only in competition with yourself. Right?

Right.

And everyone's worried about like climbing to the top of the mountain, but no, just worry about your mountain. Right. What you need to overcome. And I think once you, once you continue just climbing up it, it's honestly like a never ending mountain, which is a beautiful thing. Or you get to one peak and the next peaks even higher.

That's right.

And like life's just a. It's a lifelong journey of learning. Learning. That's. That's what I believe life is.

Yeah. I've learned to celebrate success, but not for too long and not let the highs get too high and the lows get too low. And just, you know, being on a. You're in a constant evolution, you're in a constant journey. And because it's, it's, you know, having had some successes and having had failures, your failures don't define you and your successes, they don't sustain you. So it's, you really need to Enjoy the journey, because that's all we have. And if, you know, you've seen it all, you know, you get to the end of the life, nobody's asking how much money you have left in the bank. Nobody's asking about that great deal that you closed. It's like, I just want the people around me that, you know that were on the journey and maybe to share some memories and to look and say, you know, I made an impact in these people's lives. At the end of the day, that's it. You know, that's really what it's about. And you know, all of the stuff that we have. I mean, Art, I say this, you know, our life is just an illusion. It is. The stuff that we have is just an illusion. I mean, it's like, you know, I got. I have a great house. I got this, I got that, I got the other things, but, like, I have gotten so aware of the fact that those are not the things that define me. And I get zero, zero, personal, real. I mean, you know, if it's a good investment, that's great, you know, because I don't want to be stupid and I don't want to lose money and I want appreciating assets and things like that. But other than that, like, those things don't define you. Your car doesn't define you, Your house doesn't define you. And I'm so much happier not wrapping up myself so much in things or being ego driven. I mean, the first thing most people do, and it's very natural, is when they go look at a car and maybe they look at one that they can't afford or they shouldn't buy, and then they look at this other one that makes more sense. And the first thing they think about is, what are other people going to think about me in that car versus that car? That's not the right decision. Like, if you can get past that and not make decisions based on other people's expectations of you or their impact on you, man, you are so much farther ahead than where a lot of us end up. And we get in trouble that way.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, like the saying that I've heard. I heard this a few months ago and it just stuck with me. It says, do you actually want it or do you want other people to see you have it?

Oh, my gosh.

And that's when I was just like, oh, my goodness, everything. My whole mind shifted from that point, you know, thinking about getting that new car that people maybe wanna see. Be like, oh, this guy's seen a glimpse of success or whatever, but it's really just a lifestyle that people promote on social media, and they think that that's like, oh, this person's living their perfect life. You know, they have all the money in the world, and it's like, dude, that's. That's not really how it is, right? Yeah, but I love that. And I was curious about when. How old were you when you realized, you know, the truth behind everything? When, you know, you really put your first foot forward and said, man, like, all this stuff's an illusion.

How old are you when you realize, 55. I'm 56 now.

Really?

I don't know. I think so. I had a friend that was a psychologist and a doctor, and I got to hanging out with him some, and, you know, he was the really first one that said it and said it with conviction. He said, jeff, it's all an illusion. And if I lost it all today, you know, I would make it back, or I wouldn't. But it doesn't really matter because none of this stuff is. It translates. None of it goes with you, wherever it is you go. I mean, if you even move or you want to do something different, or you, you know, let's say you get sick and you get cancer and you go to the hospital, you're not bringing all that stuff with you. The only thing you're bringing is your insurance card and a hope that you can be cured and be with the people that you love again. That's it. Like, things change so fast. That's why, like, deaths and funerals are so impactful, because for just in that moment, people get the perspective about what really matters. And then after a day or two, we go back to our lives and we forget that, you know? But I don't know, you know, I think it's come to a realization. I think assets and capital and resources are tools to do something with. They're tools to get experiences in life with. They're tools to give other people experiences with or to help people, you know, build something for themselves. And you become very quickly, once you make a little bit of money. Well, I would. I would. For me, I became very aware of stewardship, of stewardship, and that I'm a steward of these resources. They're not really mine, and I could live without them, but if I can deploy them so I become less attached to them. I don't have a big attachment to my things or money or stuff like that. In that way, you're free to actually make Kind of values forward decisions or better decisions because you're not, you're not really having a scarcity mindset of I can't lose a dollar here. I've got X dollars, but I sure can't lose one. And then you can think abundantly but abundantly about things that are more impact based than personal gain.

So I have a question for you. You've seen a lot of success in the entrepreneurship and even with this podcast, it's been incredible. How have you been able to manage your time to be able to spend, spend time with your loved ones and also work on these businesses and your franchises and everything?

I probably left a lot of money on the table because I always put that first. And it was just. There's a great book by Brian Tracy called Eat the Frog. You prioritize the most important things first. Dan Martell talks about it. If I look at your calendar and you don't have any time on there for family or other people or investing in friends or whatever it is, then you're telling me a lie that these things are important to you. Because if you make a list of what's important to you and then you look at your calendar, it's incongruent. So I always did it first. I mean, I coached over 30 seasons of my kids sports. I actually converted my business to a franchise just because I knew that I was going to be home less. We were a national international company. We were working in Puerto Rico and Canada. Canada and other places in the Caribbean and California. And more and more I was out. I had three small kids at the time and I basically threw all of that away in favor and traded it for a franchise system where people could come to me and I could be home for dinner.

That's amazing. Seriously, that's like incredible because I started an online coaching business last year and I put so much time and effort into it. I mean, I would really step out of class and take sales calls and try to learn that whole process from literally from zero. I knew nothing. So I got, I remember I called 100 people, they all said no. I'm like, I suck. I'm like, I need to improve my sales process. So I went through that. I tried something new. I ended up actually hiring a mentor for it. And I was getting really invested into it. I kept growing my business. I'm like, this is great. I'll have a great career after college. But really what it did to me was my mom's calling me and my client's calling me. Who am I picking up I put my client before my own family.

Wow.

And it really put me in this pit. By the end of it, I was like, I told my dad, I'm done. I gave all my clients to one of my friends. I'm like, I can't do this anymore. I'm like, I started putting my client and my business needs before my family and friends needs. And there's still relationships that I'm still trying to piece back together because I was just a horrible friend to these people. And I'm so, so glad and grateful that I went through that because it really made me appreciate and realize what's really important to me at the end of the day. Right. All the family connections. I remember the second I stopped that business and closed it, I went to go visit my grandparents. I spent a week with them. I just chatted with them, and my cousins lived next door. And it was just like this. Just such. It was just such a breath of fresh air. But even to this day, I'm still like, man, I'm still kind of seen as this, like, not so great, reliable friend. And, you know, that's gonna take time to heal those wounds. But I'm so, so glad that I experienced that, because it's. It just lines up with everything you just said.

You know, it's interesting. Like, so we make our money through concentration, and then we protect it through diversification. And if you're not living on the edge, you're just taking up space, right? So if you look at people that have been wildly successful, they were way out of balance for a period of time, because really, that last 10% of excellence takes 5, 10, 20 times more effort. The way you had to learn on Instagram to understand the platform, to understand what the algorithm was, to understand how to post, when to post, how long to post all of this stuff, you had to go deep. Unless you hired somebody to do it or you hired a coach. You figured it out because it is math. It's. It's more science than art, and you gotta have good content, but if you don't use the platform the right way, nobody's gonna see it. So it's art and it's science. And then on top of that, it's like, okay, well. But, like, you also, you know, you've got a balance. Like, okay, well, I also don't wanna not have a career, not have a job, and just go around and sit with my friends all day and walk them home from class. So what is the balance there? And entrepreneurs, you know, I think, you know, sometimes you have to decide, are you going to kind of go in fits and starts? Like, I'm going to spend this next four to six months really focusing on the business, but I'm going to put some blackout dates on my calendar. And that's one thing we're talking. We're pitching everybody else's products today with Strategic Coach is they have something called free days. So once a week, I mean, they have three types of days, and one of them is a free day where you're not allowed to do any work. And so you go as hard as you want on these other types of days, but you have one free day a week, and you make sure that you do only those, all of the personal things. So in that way, you can kind of balance the two out. And I would highly recommend the program to somebody like you. There's people that have been in for 19 or 20 years, and it really gives you the tools to be able to achieve the balance that you decide that you want in your life.

Wow, that's incredible. I'll definitely have to look into that.

Yeah, because, like, what happens, right, we go six, seven days a week. I mean, when I was working a hurricane, I leave town. It's the first three months or seven days a week. So now I'm missing football season with my son or soccer with my daughter or an anniversary or a birthday or things like that. And that doesn't feel good. And at some point, if. If you look at your spouse and you say, well, this is the way it's going to be for the next 15 years, they might make a different choice. Now, you've got all kinds of other issues that you chose intentionally to create within your family. But the other side of it is, at least for me, I knew that one of my main priorities was to provide. And I wasn't a great student either. Entrepreneurs aren't generally, you know, that's the truth. I mean, we're just not. And so, you know, I was probably unemployable. And so, you know, I had to make a go of this thing to be able to provide. And I mean, I was focused on. I mean, from the moment they were born, I was focused on paying for college educations. I was focused on putting a roof over heads. I was, you know, and then it became hitting lessons and then soccer practice and, you know, all of this and school and, you know, maybe a vacation here and there. So you have to, you know, everybody has to decide for themselves what's most important. And I, you know, one of the things I try to ask myself, especially when I feel like I'm getting a little bit. When I'm feeling like there's priorities, I ask myself, you know, what matters the most? Like, what is the most important thing? And generally there's some decision that you've got to give something up to get. Focus on something else, because we can't do it all. And it sounds like you take big swings at things. You go all in and get wildly successful in gymshark partnerships, and then you start a consulting business and you're like, wait a minute, I'm not paying enough attention over here. Shut that down. And now you run over here. So you're an all in guy.

I guess. I mean, I like to diversify. But sure, I do want to focus on plan A, right? Because I heard something great the other day. I mean, one thing everyone always hears is about burning the ships, right? So, like, there's no turning back. But if you have a plan A and a plan B, and you know, you have that Plan B in the back of your mind, plan A is tossed because you're not even, you know, that you have something to bank on. Whereas, like, I just see myself trying this avenue and going as hard as I can at it and learning every single system about it to a point where if I do this long enough and I don't give up, I know that this will work. And I think that is the beautiful thing now with the coaching business, it's a little bit different. I did learn how to scale that and optimize it, but I wasn't happy at the end of the day. Right. So I knew that I didn't want to do that.

Well, like, sometimes you get in a business and you realize now that I see it clearly, this is not going to be worth it.

Yes, that's. That's it. That was exactly it. And it was just. It was just such a pivotal moment for. I just kind of felt a little lost at that point because I'm like, man, I just. I really just stopped running. Like, I literally was running and I just stopped in place and I was just breathing, kind of looking around like, well, what's next? And, you know, the mindful project was already in the works in the process, and that's when we really just started putting everything together. I'll tell you about those puzzle pieces, but I want. What I wanted to talk about was your. You know, you started your restoration company after Hurricane Andrew, correct? That's right. And seeing the devastation in Boone right now, man, I was up there for that. And it was just a crazy, unreal experience. I've never seen anything like it anywhere. But in Boone alone, I was just. I was devastating. It was devastating.

Yeah. So, you know, for 25 years of my life, this, this would be all of our focus. We would be. For the next year, we would be helping the people of western North Carolina and surrounding areas, recovery, cover. And it was very satisfying work. Now, you know, I'm making donations. I like Samaritan's Purse, which is Franklin Graham's, you know, organization up there. We've done things around the holidays of packing boxes and doing the box packing thing and all that kind of stuff. And they're really, I think, a good organization. Red Cross does a lot of good work here. So right now, I mean, for. And you're not allowed to get up there. The roads are washed out, 40 is washed out. So right now it's going to be, you know, let's. Let's raise money. Let's support. We here at the office. People took up a collection, went and got things. If you take them to the airport, they'll make sure they put them on trucks and they get them into the people that they need to get them into. So the staff here at Homefront Brands has been very active in collecting supplies and things like that. You know, I'm just going to go ahead and, you know, quietly just, you know, support the organizations that I've been involved with for the years up there and reach out to anybody personally. But I, you know, the big challenge with this is flood insurance. If you don't live in a floodplain, you're not going to get flood insurance. And even if you do have flood insurance, it's actually not replacement value. It's called actual cash value. Things aren't covered. They're only covered for what's exactly damaged, not to match anything. So if you happen to have some flood insurance, which you live in the mountains, you generally don't, then you might have some coverage. But, like, these people are not going to have recourse. So, I mean, I've seen, you know, there's people that were living just in a valley or, you know, alongside of a road, and the next thing you know, there's water coming through their windows and there was no river there. You know, it was just. It was just a kind of a place between a couple of mountains and these people would never expect it. I'm extremely concerned about the loss of life. I think it's going to be. I think it's. I mean, if you're of A certain age, there's a lot of people that have lived up there their whole lives. You know, an elderly couple living by themselves. They didn't have the mechanism to get out of those homes. So I'm hopeful. What's interesting in disasters is, and I learned this, we would wait, you know, and we would. We had clients, government contracts that we were obligated to respond to. So when a hurricane was coming, we would get ready, and then as soon as the hurricane would leave, we would go into the buildings that we were responsible to survey and dry out or do whatever it is we were supposed to do. And until you get on the ground in a hurricane situation or a flood situation, the news, it'll be two months or three months before people get a clear picture through the media as to what happened. Because they'll just shoot something and then they'll go with that. But they're shooting just this little myopic piece of it. And the global picture, it doesn't take shape unless your boots are on the ground and you're working with the crews and you're traveling around. So my suspicion is that it's gonna be worse than anybody can possibly imagine, because I don't even think there's people that have power, water, or food, and they can't get out right now.

Still.

Yeah, still. So what's your understanding of the situation?

Well, I was there. I was in Boone experiencing it. We live. We're kind of parked on the side of a mountain. So we have a very steep driveway and steep road that goes up. So we're sitting there. Power goes out around nine. Like, okay, power goes out. And then my roommate walks downstairs, he goes, man, there's water coming through the doors, both doors. We kind of live on a. We live in a two story house. We have a basement where I live. And then above on the top floor is where the kitchen is. Living room is.

How long had it been raining?

So it actually rained for three days before that. So we got.

Whoa.

Yeah, we got 8 to 10 inches of rain before the storm even hit. And the roads are starting to flood before the storm even hit.

Oh, my God.

Problem number one.

Yeah.

And then so that day, my roommates like, hey, man, waters coming in. I'm gonna try to block it off with towels. I'm like, okay, cool. Yeah. And I wasn't really bothered. And he goes into the laundry room, takes a step in the laundry room and almost just eats it because we already got water piling up in our laundry room.

Wow.

So the water ended up coming in through our floors and just absorbing everything. I mean, we had to move basically all my stuff out of. Out of my room, move it upstairs, make sure that, you know, we got all the major stuff moved out. And we were mopping water out of our basement. Out of the back door of the basement. We're just mopping water. I'll show you videos of it later. It's insane. And we look to our right and left of our house, Our street looks like a river. Like, I've never seen anything like it before. It literally was just like, you know what typical flash flood look or flash flood flooding looks like. It just was rushing water down this steep hill. I'm telling you, walking up that hill is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. It is so steep, and even my car struggles getting up it. And I'm just looking at all this water come down. And then you look to the right and water is just finding its way down. It's literally finding its way down.

So just like tons of little waterfalls everywhere, Rivers and creeks just coming down out of the mountains.

Rapids. Wow. The top of our street. The street's gone. There was a rock slide. Street just completely fell.

Well, that's the problem. Like, houses just, like, if the soil gets unstable on sloped ground and if it starts to go, it's all going.

I think the scariest part was, you know, all the trees and Boone. Everyone always posts about the leaves. The scariest part was when those big gusts of wind come in. Yeah, it would knock down, like 10 trees within a hundred yard radius. I mean, we were just like, sitting there and we're just like, there goes another tree. Tree fell in our backyard, Our neighbor's house. Trees below us, or there's a house below us. I think eight trees fell in their house. I'm just like, it was unreal. I couldn't even process it. And the hardest part was no cell service. So we had no idea what was going on. You know, we don't know if people are okay, what roads are shut down. No idea. I could call my dad briefly for two minutes before the call would cut out. And he was worried sick.

Oh, my gosh.

But, you know, then we were. We were driving a little bit later that day when it cleared up, and just seeing all the destruction and Boone, small businesses are gone. It's just like. It was just so sad. And I really just looked at my best friend that was in the car. I'm like, boone's never going to be the same. It's really sad. Yeah.

Yeah, that's horrible. Well, prayers to lift him up. Hopefully people are okay and it's gonna be long recovery.

That's right. And we just got to do our part and continue to spread the awareness of it.

Yeah.

I got posts about the Red Cross the other day.

Is there something you're supporting?

Yeah, the Red Cross. I've just heard from the students that are up there who lost, you know, their cars and their homes. They just said the American Red Cross has been working all night to get us food, shelter, everything that we need.

Yeah.

So I put a link in my bio and in my Instagram bio below it.

Well, yeah, it's rough, but, you know, we'll all do the best that we can with it. There's no good news.

There really isn't. I know. It's just crazy.

So I want to move to mental health, and it's been a theme of this podcast you shared a lot about. Not all the details, but clearly you're indicating that you had times where you really, really struggled dealing with what you were facing. Talk about mental health broadly for people your age. What have you learned? What are some of the numbers and what are the things that you are most concerned about for other people that are in your age group and maybe facing the same things?

Man, I think it all stems from the phones, man. Like, I can't even, you know, I'm a content creator, but I have 45 minutes set on every platform total for the day, and I'm off. I can't stand being on social media.

Isn't that crazy?

Yeah. Seriously?

Yeah.

So that's the first thing, like, stop scrolling and get outside. You know, get healthy dopamine. Walk outside.

Right.

Hang out with friends, like, talk with people. Connection. Right. I think largely, and it's really just from the pain that I've seen. You know, I came with you with this business idea that we had for the Mindful project, creating this conversation card game because I saw that there was a serious need for college students in particular. So, like, I went through, you know, I had a very poor mindset in college, and I just felt so lonely and trapped and isolated and, you know, it led to anxiety and depression. And I was like, man, there's gotta be some statistics about this, about somewhere out there. And after doing some research, I realized over two thirds of college students walking around have symptoms of anxiety and depression, and almost a third should be diagnosed. And that's when I was just like, this is unreal. The amount of college students that are here each year Struggling with this stuff, not being able to talk about it. And what I realized was I actually did a. I looked at a Harvard study, the longest running Harvard study ever, says the reason why people are unhappy is because of loneliness and the reason why people are happy is because of human connection. And that's really where the foundation of this college game came from, was from the pain that I had from this, from this, from my experience and being able to say, like, hey, if I put myself around the right people, maybe I wouldn't have experienced this. But I'm also grateful I experienced that because I wouldn't have had this idea. So we created this conversation card game that basically takes strangers. When you're getting to school, you don't really know anybody. You don't even know your own roommate sometimes. And it just takes you from a surface level understanding to a best friend level understanding in two and a half hours. It's unreal. We've been testing the game over and over and over again to trying to, trying to get this process perfect for the consumer. So we're actually doing testing with our community on the mindful project, which is fantastic.

So it sounds like even if you lose the game, you win.

Yes, that's right. That's right. And so it just really opened my eyes to how these schools are really trying to push to really take care of their students and they haven't been given the proper tool yet. And I feel like this is going to be a really good tool for them to implement, implement on their universities to create that college community that they want, that college culture that they want of just an embracing environment of people who look at each other and say, man, everybody is amazing in some way, shape or form. We are all amazing. That's like the big model of our brand, right? Everybody is something that's truly amazing about them. And if you come curious into anything, you will leave connected. And so that is what our game really inspires people to do. And after doing all this testing with all these other conversation card games that are out there, we just really wanted to give the most heartfelt and genuine connection that we could for, you know, college students. But also we actually created one for the general masses as well to sell direct to consumer online through our social media. So it's just something we're really passionate about. We love talking and we love meeting people and it's just really, people are amazing. Seriously.

Do you have it? What is the, what is the state of the business product?

So we have our prototype in hand right now, but we actually have to create our other prototype for. We're going to be selling the general mass game first because we want to make sure the market's good and we want to make sure that all the testing that we do is really just for the customers in general. And once we finish rolling that out, we'll able to go to market at the beginning of 2025. And from there we're going to sell online. We're going to use just general digital marketing, just organic marketing in general. And then once we. Once we prove that process out, we'll be able to really like work on the college game to where we're gonna go college to college and attempt to sell this in bulk to college freshmen coming in. Because as talking to parents, they say that they really worry about their kids going to school. And Covid really raised a lot of walls for us.

Right.

And just people don't want to have these conversations and parents are worried that their kids aren't going to meet the right people when they go to. When they go to college. So we believe there's a need for it and that we could really help with the mental health crisis happening on college campuses and in just the young adult audience.

Yeah, that's great. Don't tell me the name, but do you have a name for it?

We do.

Don't tell it to me.

You don't want me to tell it. Okay.

Okay. Now, do you have your trademark?

Not yet.

Okay. So I'm working with a group and the company is called Instant IP and it uses blockchain technology and for $97. So trademarks are usually like 1200-3000. They take a while. Copyrights you can get, but they're a little less strong. And you've got. And then you've got patents which are around 30 grand and they take maybe three years. So you've got all these different levels of IP. And this, it was called Easy IP. Had to change it to Instant IP because quite frankly, there was a trademark in front on Easy ip. I think the irony is not lost on me.

But.

So for $97, you go put all the information in and it creates a certificate and it creates a blockchain digital marker that it was your idea. And not only do you need to do that for the names of each of your games, but maybe even each of the cards or some of the questions and stuff so people can't copy it in that way. And you might spend a little bit of money, or you might spend $97 times 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I'm not sure. But that being said, it would be a cheap and easy way for you to at least prove that this was your idea. Because if you put it out there and somebody Hasbro or I don't even know if they're in business, but one of these toy companies copies it, you can't fight them.

That's right.

They will take it. I've got all kinds of original content that goes back to probably 2010. And now I sometimes see people taking my content and using it and repurposing it or taking a concept or something that I had and, you know, some like, well, I need to. I might not want to get a trademark on it.

Right.

But I'll spend $97 to protect that. That concept or that idea that I know was my original idea.

Right, right.

A lot of stuff's a compilation. Probably 90% of the stuff that we said on this podcast came from other people. Right. You know, ideas, concepts, and stuff like that. That's fine, because we're packaging up for the listeners so that they get it, you know, easy and, you know, and we put it together in a way that can be helpful to them and understand it. But 10% of it is our unique content, and those are things that we should protect.

That's right.

So when is the game going to be available officially and people will get it? You're going to distribute it directly?

Yeah. So it's. It's kind of a complicated process right now because of the fact that since we're still in our testing phase, we initially wanted that to go for about a month. But based off our community feedback, that's gonna be the largest indicator of how long it's gonna take for us to get to our manufacturing facility in China.

Okay.

And then it'll ship directly from China to whoever. Whoever ends up buying it. But it's just been a very long process, and we're just day by day, step by step, making sure we're doing the right things to get. Get every aspect of the business done. So hopefully by the beginning of 2025, January of 2025, we will have a product that we were going to be able to sell.

That's great. And that whole instant IP thing I shared about protecting your intellectual property, China won't pay attention to it.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, they'll have it. It'll be. Kids at Beijing will be playing this game right before you get your first set, I promise you. But that's fine, because really, if it helps them.

That's right.

That's what it's all about.

That's right. That's right.

So there you go. Maybe negotiate a royalty back maybe.

We'll see, right?

Yeah. Well, that's good. That's so exciting. I think it's going to be great. I could see schools and universities buying this and putting it in the common areas of all the dorms and then the RAs coming out and saying, hey, this is how we're going to get it going and doing that. Spending two and a half hours and man, what a what? It's like a icebreaker on steroids.

It really is. We've thought of it in so many different ways. And like you said for clubs, I just feel like, you know, only knowing the surface level of somebody is very hard, especially in an environment where you're living with other people. So just being able to know people a little bit better and know their background and everything like that, it's just going to help you so much more with your connections and you know, if just everything in the future. Right. Just any problems that may occur, you're like, okay, I understand how this person thinks and how they work. And it's like, this is so much better. Now I can come and address this problem in the right way and I think that's really great too.

Can I get your opinion on addiction?

Sure.

My perception is that young people are drinking less alcohol. Is that true?

Depends on where you're looking, Jeff. Depends on where you're looking. Yeah. If you turn the wrong corner, you'd be surprised. I. I really don't know. I don't really hang out with a whole lot of people, to be honest. You know, obviously like the college culture, there's people lining outside of the bars every Thursday and Friday night. But I don't think it's to the same extent because I see this, that's where social media actually is good. I kind of see this good self improvement kind of journey and kind of takeover. It's like, it's a very interesting thing to see.

Yeah.

And I'm very happy for people seeing them, you know, start their self improvement journey and take care of their bodies and.

Sure.

But you know, in moderation, I think people can drink. I think that's totally fine. I don't think it's to that degree or extent anymore.

Like you're like, well, I think there's other addictions. So the dopamine addiction from social media, that's a real thing? Yeah, for all ages, myself included. I mean, you know, I'm working so hard to limit my time because now that we do this podcast, and we're on all of the different channels. You want to check in and see how things are doing, or do I need to respond? Because I get real inbound, important connections from the social media. Like, I can't believe the people that just slide into my DMs and are like, hey, we should get to talk about this. And I'm like, are you kidding me? You know, so it, for me, it's like, hey, you never know when you open up the box what prize is going to be in there. And then there's also people. Marijuana and byproducts of that are more and more legalized all across the country. So people are doing probably more of that, which is probably healthier than alcohol, because alcohol is a massive poison, toxin, depressant. It impacts your sleep and all of that kind of stuff. And I'm no saint with it. I've had my own journey with addictions and stuff, as most entrepreneurs actually do, because we're living on the edge, and so we're always. Whatever we're doing, we're doing it with all of our might. But I'm just interested to know, because I think that alcohol is like kryptonite or catnip, whichever one you want to look for. Mental health, I mean, it doesn't, you know, it is not a good way. If you are struggling with mental health, alcohol and depressants is not the best way. It's not to numb that pain. Exercise is great. Friends are great. Putting the phones down is great. Hiking is great. Athletics, working out, all of that stuff. So I think this card game is a way. Because a lot of times think about it like, you go to a new place, you don't know people, and what are we doing? We're going to this party. So, you know, the first experience you have with many new friends includes alcohol as the icebreaker. Well, now you have a different icebreaker.

That's right.

And so now I got to know people. And you realize this group of 15 people that are now living on our floor, I'm pretty yoked with these people. I've got this in common with this. Those people. And you didn't need the liquid lube.

Yeah.

To basically, you know, lower the inhibitions so that people could get to know each other. You did it through this game. So I think in a way, this game can be really, really helpful in really accelerating relationships.

Yes. That's the hope, and that's what we really want to bring to many people and families and friends and even relationships. You know, I Think it's. It's amazing just being able to sit down and have a conversation with somebody. It's incredible.

Yeah. Good. Well, you are an incredible conversationalist. I'm so impressed. You're so articulate. Thank you. And you really, really put your thoughts together. Well, no. No secret why you've been so successful.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Awesome. So, any. Before we head towards the barn here, any social media tips for people that would want to do what you do? I mean, I think you. You've covered it. Authentic content. Be who you are, you know? You know, when you. When you had an identity and role crisis, you kind of got yourself. Right. So that you. You were aligned with the content and it was aligned with you.

Right.

Authenticity matters. You can only be somebody you're not for. For so long. Our battery to be somebody we're not as much smaller than our battery to be authentic just to who we are. So we can. We can. And, you know, if you. If you're not. If you're being inauthentic, you're basically lying to people. People about who you are. Hard to keep that straight. Yeah, you know, very true. Hard to keep that straight unless you're doing a Persona. And there's been social media people that have done, like, Personas that are just wacky.

Yeah.

And they stick with it.

Right.

I know for my. From my ear, it was Pee Wee Herman. For me. Who's that one lady? I don't. I forget there's, you know, but they. They're these characters.

Right, right, right, right.

And they just have to be in character. And then, you know, you'll see them on, like, a little show, and they'll be taking off the makeup and be like, yeah, you know, I'll do the character as long as people keep clicking and buying.

Right, right.

You know, but that's not me. But is there any other tips and tactics? Just a few things that you would recommend to people and.

Yes.

And maybe then wrap it up with what's the next platform of the future?

Okay. So for social media, I try to tell people this as much as often. You need to be consistent with it. Right. Social media is the best feedback loop you'll ever get. If you post a video and it's stuck at 3,000 views and you're like, man, this video is so good. I put so much time into it. You might put a lot of time into it, and that's great. But people aren't seeing it for a reason, so something needs to change. And I like telling My business partner this all the time. Like, I'm like, dude, I sucked at content this week, I'm sorry. And he's like, bro, don't apologize, you've done great. And I'm like, but I'm not doing enough because I look at those feedback loops all the time. So I do spend a lot of time studying the algorithm. So I do, on certain days I will sit there for hours on end, scroll, see what works. And yes, it's mind numbing work, but once you figure out what works, you could just replicate it. That's right, A hundred times, just in different ways. You replicate before you reiterate. That's why I always tell people, so if you're consistent and you, you see something, do well, replicate that as many times as you can before you go to a different idea.

Is that your content or anybody's content?

I think with anybody's content. Right. So here's another thing though. If you are creating viral content, you're not always going to get the conversions you want, right? So like last month on our accounts we did 100 million views just on Instagram. And like, that's great. Wow. I'm like, wow, that's incredible. I've never done it before. But then I looked at my conversion rate and it was maybe just a, not even 1% of that. I mean it was less than it might have been. Point 10% conversion to followers. Yes, it was a very, very low conversion. And what I realized was people weren't following me from the videos that were going viral. People were following me from the content that I created within those videos that went viral. So most people are going to follow you because of your voice. If your voice, if you're able to carry your perspective on your platform and able to show your true self and what, and what you believe in your messaging are. And that's the beauty of a personal brand. It's really your perspective and other people that align with your perspective and you're able to help them. If you're able to pivot from those viral videos and people are able to look through your account and see what you're posting and you know, you have a talking video of yourself, you have a few other things about yourself. People are more likely to follow from those, you know, posts, the ones you've worked actually really hard on and then the ones that you kind of take less time in but you know are going to kind of kick off and go viral. Those are the ones that are going to grab people, but the ones that are actually going to hold them is, is the, is the ones that, you know, you put a lot of time into. You created a good message that you believe in, that you're confident in. But really, like, like you said earlier, don't pay attention to the comments as much. Yeah, I mean, obviously there's going to be, there's going to be negative comments sometimes, and that's okay. But I would say really study the numbers and track your growth. Like, even to this day, I track my growth every day on both accounts because I'm like, okay, I need to see this trend go up this month and I need to make sure that I'm doing everything I can to push this platform forward and get more eyes and engagement on both of these accounts and just being consistent through that process and being creative, but also being like, hey, this sound is trending right now. This kind of content style is trending right now. If you find out what's trending in your niche and your audience and you're able to just kind of create your own space to that, because nothing's really original at the end of the day on social media especially. So if you're able to just make your own twist and spin to it and put it out there and test it and just keep going, you will find your way. But you have to be able to look at those numbers and pay attention to how you're growing to be able to get to that point.

Got it.

So that's like my best, that's my best, best advice. But I think the next platform that's up and coming, honestly, it's kind of coming back around TikTok. I think TikTok is really going to be like the next big push because of the TikTok shop. Talk about that. I mean, people are quite literally becoming entrepreneurs just through TikTok shop, able to sell merchandise through other companies, get a percentage. And these other companies are banking. I mean, they're making a bunch of, A bunch of money. And then TikTok's only taking 5% of that. And TikTok promotes these videos that people post about TikTok Shop. So it doesn't really take. You know, you can do some market analysis and some studying, but that's, I mean, TikTok is really where everything is sitting right now. And if you're able to capture a good audience on TikTok, you'll, you'll, you'll do well. But I think Instagram is my favorite outlet because you can have so many direct conversations with people, right? You can call people on TikTok you can. Or on Instagram, sorry, you could call people, you could direct message them and really build that community that you want.

Right.

And that's why I've always put Instagram on the front burner. And I actually restarted TikTok this year and kind of put on the back burner just because the demographics on Instagram are a lot better. Like Meta does it, in my opinion. I don't know if I'm able to say this, but they do a better job with targeting the demographic that I want to hit rather than TikToks. Kind of a little bit all over the place.

Right.

So that. Yeah, that's. Those are my biggest things. Just stay consistent, be confident what you post and just pay attention. And it's just a big feedback loop. Listen, social media is free. Like it's just a lottery system every day. So if you post every day, you have the chance of one just going crazy and then if one hits, the rest will do well too. And it's really cool to see. So, yeah, that would be my best advice.

Great advice. Where can people follow you?

So my personal brand is Jack Scalise and my brand's page, which I love a little bit more, is called the Mindful Project. If you just type that out in Instagram, you'll be able to see it. We have a, like a.it's like the.mindfulproject. that was the only one we could get. Yeah, we're trying to get the full name pretty soon, but it's taking some time.

But that will cost you.

It's gonna cost us a lot, but I think it'll be worth it in the future, at least to have it. So, yeah. Yeah.

Jack, this has been awesome. I've got one last question for you.

Absolutely.

If you had to pick just one sentence to make an impact in somebody's life, what would that be?

Life's not about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning how to dance in the rain. I've said that to myself every day for the past year and a half and it's changed my perspective on any hardship I ever go through.

Perfectly said. Thanks for being on.

Thank you for having me, Jeff.

Alright, this has been Jack Scalise with Jeff Duden and we have been on the home front. Thank you everybody for listening.