She Built Club Pilates Into A Giant - Now She's Doing It Again With A New Brand

My goal is to build the second largest Pilates company in the country and eventually the world, because we did that with Club Pilates. And I truly believe we have that same opportunity with Pilates Addiction. We're at over 300 territories in 27 states, and the openings are coming online very, very strongly. And we'll start to go into a hockey stick growth mode on the back half of the year where we'll be opening 20 studios on a monthly basis for a very long time. So we are a little, you know, fish in in the pond and we're going to start to scale pretty rapidly come, you know, end of summer. You know, be open to any opportunity and walk through the doors even if you don't know what's on the other side.

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Unemployable Podcast. I'm Jeff Dudan. If you were a professional dancer, became a rockstar Pilates instructor with Equinox while getting your MBA, if you brought it all together to lead Club Pilates at the mega platform Exponential Fitness, and now are the president of the fastest growing Pilates brand, Pilates Addiction. Your name can only be the incredible Sarah Luna. Welcome.

Oh, thank you so much. What a great intro. I appreciate it.

Is it all true? I mean, we do use AI here.

It is all true. Yes.

Oh, okay. All right. Once it wasn't, and that was awkward. It was awkward.

I can only imagine.

Yeah. You know, he's like, mm. I'm like, well, sounded good. Here's the opener, Sarah. What makes a fitness brand sticky?

Yeah. You know, really it, what we focus on is making sure that the person leaves, they come in and they leave feeling emotionally tied to the brand. So, it has to deliver on more than just a good sweat or good workout. About a good fitness experience, but it has to make someone feel something when they come in and they meet the people, they see the facility, and they emotionally get that, you know, great, great feeling, good feeling, and feel that they're home and that they're welcome. So that goes, you know, hospitality point goes a long way with ensuring that the brand is highly sticky and celebrating all the wins with the customers. So that may be first class completed or 10th class 500th class, but also, hey, you're standing taller today, or you're stronger in your arms, your posture looks better. So it's all those little pieces put together that allows a brand to continue to resonate and be successful, you know, decades upon decades. Got it.

I think that was your cue to tell me to sit up straighter, so I will. So when you say that, I think community. And so the things that you mentioned are the things that the brand does to recognize the members.

Yeah.

What are some of the things that you do to create connection between the members?

Yeah, from my standpoint, it starts with creating community at the, at the ownership level and with our owners. So we bring them all through a franchise training and we start day one with networking and community across the owners so that they can, they can start to understand that community doesn't just happen because you say community, but that it has to be intentional networking, intentional time spent together learning about each other and doing fun things together and, you know, kind of being in the process together. And then when they hire on their first staff members, we give them additional tasks and ways to build community within their team so that by the time the team is then interacting with their customers, community is more than just a buzzword, but it— there's already a studio culture, even if there isn't a studio built, but there's a studio culture that we're welcoming people into. And we have a lot of discussions and dialogue about making sure our VIP customers and those who raise their hands first really feel that they're VIP. And that is spending the time to get to know what their fitness journey has looked like, what their what their personal life looks like and how they can start to fit Pilates Addiction into their daily routine and lifestyle. And connecting with them, whether that's at a bridal expo or a mat class outside or a, a running event and meeting people where they are in their life journey and inviting them back into the studio. So community is much more than just a word that we say, but we take it very seriously and, and think about ways to, create that and celebrate, you know, amongst all the leadership roles across the organization so that it becomes second nature the moment that we start to interact with our staff members.

Yeah, that's really the trick. It really, it really is. It's easier said than done, but properly executed, you'll, you'll have long-term members.

Yes.

This is your second role in the franchise space. Nobody grows up saying, I'm gonna be in franchising. We all fall into it. What was your path that led you to get to ultimately end up here today?

You know, it's funny. My mom was a Jazzercise franchisee. Actually, she still is. And my dad is a small business owner. And so from an early age, I was able to really watch their two entrepreneurial journeys and see the difference between being a mom-and-pop business owner and operator versus a franchise, you know, franchisee. And my mom's marketing materials and t-shirts shirts and, you know, marketing and sales collateral would just come in the mail ready to go. And it was plug and play. And, you know, my dad put 6, 7 days a week, you know, into his job and, you know, constantly was like thinking about what to do on his website and marketing and really just kind of looking at himself to try to figure it all out on his own. So early on I had, you know, really great examples of the difference. And I never thought, you know, I'm going to go into franchising and that would be my pathway. In fact, I never never actually wanted to go into business. That wasn't something that I grew up thinking I wanted to do. I was more inclined towards, you know, the medical field and helping people that way. But the more that I started to teach Pilates and the more I started to understand that there were career opportunities in fitness and more than just actually teaching classes, you know, as a Pilates instructor, the more my interest just continued to peak. And I met Anthony Geisler while I was teaching at Equinox, and he was my Pilates client as he was doing due diligence on Club Pilates. And so he shared the vision of, uh, Club Pilates with me, and I thought, you know, this sounds really interesting, and this train's going to move with or without me, so I'm going to jump on and see how it goes. And, and that was 11 years ago. So that was, uh, really fun, just, you know, being able to do Club Pilates and the move to Pure Barre, um, and then lead Exponential Fitness and now be the CEO of Pilates Addiction. And we're a year in already and very excited about all that has been accomplished and the franchisees that we've worked to bring into the system to launch their very first studios.

What if you would've called out that day that Anthony was coming in and you never met him?

Yeah. Well, it's funny because I actually, part of my sales process was to reach out to all the customers at Equinox on their birthday and invite them in. So, okay. He, he wasn't, I don't think he was really looking to take a Pilates session, but he was a little bit more open to it because of the due diligence that he was doing with Club Pilates. But had that not happened, I'm not— I know that my trajectory would've been very, very different. I was happy at Equinox, so I wasn't looking for a job. It just kind of happened that I met him and we hit it off and seemed like a really great opportunity. And, you know, the rest is history at the end of the day.

All of our great opportunities come from just saying yes.

Yeah, exactly.

At the right time to the right person.

Right.

You were a competitive dancer growing up. I'm not sure to exactly what extent, but how did your being an athlete help you become a business leader today? What do you call on from those days of competitive dance that helps you in your, in your leadership of the team?

Yeah, I danced professionally until I was 25 and moved to Chicago at one point and danced for professional dance companies and took on a ton of different jobs. But, you know, there wasn't a lot of money in the arts and in dance generally, particularly, you know, classical dance. I studied jazz and ballet and modern. And so in order to pursue the goals and the dreams that I have of, you know, dancing on big stages and dancing for professional companies, there's a ton of sacrifice and a ton of dedication that went into getting there. You know, so much so that I was dancing 40 hours a week for one company and then, you know, signed up for two other dance companies on the weekends and then taught Pilates after my 40-hour work week into the evening. So a lot of times I would, you know, start dancing at 8:00 AM, finish at 4:00, take the train to Chicago, downtown Chicago, and, teach from, you know, 4:30 till 10:00 at night. I did that Monday through Friday and then taught 8 or 9 customers on Saturdays and then took on another, you know, company dance job on Sunday. So it really was that, you know, if you wanted, wanted something and you wanted it, you know, enough that you were willing to give up and sacrifice to make that happen. And so I think about, you know, as we're launching Pilates Addiction, my goal is to build the second largest Pilates company in the country and eventually the world. World because we did that with Club Pilates and I truly believe we have that same opportunity with Pilates Addiction. So wake up every day and that's, that's my goal is to see how successful and how wide we can bring this brand. And so far it's resonating very, very well and the owners are doing a phenomenal job of translating the vision down to the local level and, and customers you know, are jumping on board. So we're seeing that it is truly resonating and it's not competitive to Club Pilates, which I think makes it even more exciting, is it's really kind of the younger sister of Club Pilates, if you will. So, so with that, you know, the dedication and just the discipline that I learned in my dance career has totally translated over. And then, you know, having this team mentality that it's, it's not going to happen with just me and myself and hard work alone, but it'll be the entire team grinding, sacrificing, and working towards a bigger vision to make it all, you know, happen and come together.

Pilates is one of the better performing fitness modalities, if not the best. What is it about Pilates? Why does it work? And why do people tend to do it for years and years and years?

Yeah, Pilates can meet anyone where they're at, you know, on, on any part of their physical journey. So it can be used to rehab if you have an injury or, you know, a special condition that you're working through, or for elite athletes who are looking to up their game. But the great thing about Pilates is it just gets harder the more that you do it and the more that you understand the principles of Pilates. And with the spring-loaded equipment, the more you pull on the spring, the more the spring pulls on you. So, you know, as your strength starts to increase or your flexibility. As the instructor, we can tailor the string, the springs to be either harder or softer or lighter in terms of tension. And that will totally change the workout. So you could do the exact same choreography, but you change the apparatus and the spring tension and all of a sudden it feels completely different. And I've been doing Pilates, gosh, since 2006, a very long time. And I took a class just 2 days ago and I'm still feeling it, you know? So it doesn't matter, you know, how often or how regular or how long you've been doing it, but the practice just continues to strengthen your body and grow with your body as you age and as your body, you know, kind of adapts to where it is in its current journey.

I've never taken a Pilates class. Is time under tension an element to it or is it more repetitive motion?

Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. You know, there are ways that we can play with tempo to, to engage the muscles differently. And that is part of the practice is that there may be days where the instructor, the Pilates educator comes in and says, okay, we're going to have a little bit more of a cardio component to it, or we're going to slow it down and really work on, you know, your stability muscles and different muscles and make sure you have strength for both. You know, at the end of the day, when you're in your real life, you want to have both your, your fast twitch and your slow twitch muscles working together and being able to be pliable and flexible enough that you can pick up a kid or you can pick up a dinner plate or you can reach overhead and, you know, pull the laundry detergent out of the, out of the cabinet, or you can sprint really fast or go golfing. So having an intelligently designed or trained body means that you're able to do real life without you know, picking up your kid and picking up your dinner plate in the exact same way, right? Because if you're only used to lifting, let's say, you know, 40-pound weight and you do it fast all the time, you gotta pick up your dinner plate and now your dinner's gonna be on your face, right? Because you're, you pick it up fast and, and hard, right? So with, with Pilates, it's really about having full control at the entire length of the muscle. So you're not just strong, you know, in short contracted, you know, muscle engagement, but it's at 25% engaged or 100% engaged and that you're in full control of what your body's actually doing. So I think that's what makes it resonate so much with people and they can coordinate it with, or do the workout with any, any other activities that they're enjoying as well. So it's highly complimentary, right?

At Pilates Addiction, you've created your own piece of equipment. And is it technically a reformer? Is it, uh, is the reformer a brand name or is that more of a generic description for the piece of equipment? And what have you done? What makes yours different?

Yeah, so the, um, the apparatus that we use is the Orem reformer and that was renamed, um, this year, historically known as the Wundaformer, which was patented in, um, in 2010 by Amy Jordan. And what we loved about the apparatus, um, and now it's exclusive to Pilates Addiction, is that it's really, the Swiss Army knife of Pilates machines. So when Joseph Pilates developed, um, the Pilates apparatus, there was a reformer and then, um, uh, other pieces, you know, a wunda chair. Um, and so what Amy did is she put those different components of Pilates apparatus all together into one machine. And the way that I like to, you know, kind of think about the machine is that you have more workout minutes in your 50-minute session because you're spending less time configuring the apparatus or moving it around the studio, but rather kind of move around the equipment. And the equipment's already preset by the Pilates educator, which allows the customer to, to get more out of that 50-minute timeframe. So the intensity is that much more challenging because there are no breaks and you're able to kind of move throughout the equipment in that way. So I love the equipment. You know, obviously it's part of Pilates Addiction, but as a, as a Pilates practitioner, what makes it exciting is that, you know, Joseph Pilates was an inventor at the end of the day. And I think this efficient equipment makes Pilates more accessible and resonates better with people who are now, you know, coming onto the scene for the very first time. So for a younger generation, you know, they're looking for something that is sleek, has a great design, and is highly efficient, will give them the most you know, bang for their buck for, for that timeframe. So, so it's been really great. And then of course we dipped it in gold because why not? And we get tons of great feedback on having a gold reformer.

Nice. And how much time is spent on the machine and off the machine during the workout? I mean, my sense of it is that you're always engaged with it.

You're always engaged with the machine. Yeah, we do have props, you know, dumbbells and blocks. But, but all of that is used in conjunction with the machine. So there's, there's very little, if no downtime off the machine.

Got it. Let's talk specifically about how it's going over at Pilates Addiction. I know just from paying attention that development's been fast. Maybe 300 territories or units awarded thus far. How's it going and how are openings proceeding?

Yeah, we're at over 300 territories in 27 states and the openings are coming online very, very strongly and we'll start to go into a hockey stick growth mode on the back half of the year where we'll be opening 20 studios on a monthly basis. Okay. For a very long time. So we are a little, you know, fish in the pond and we're going to start to scale pretty rapidly. Come, you know, end of summer.

That takes a lot of real estate. That's a lot of leases. That's a lot of activity. That's a lot of people fishing for spots. What's a— what does the space look like?

Yeah. So we have two advantages with this brand. First off, we're not looking for big boxes. So our standard footprint is about 1,500 square feet. And the great news about using the Oran Reformer is that it goes right in the middle of the real estate at the end of the day. So what we've been able to do and adapt with, with this brand specifically is that we can take triangle real estate, we can take end caps, we can take center units, we can take L shapes even. And because we can go with the machines being dumped in the middle of the room or, you know, installed in the middle of the room, we can be very creative with the layout of the rest of the box ultimately. So that has allowed us to move very quickly because we're not looking for something that is highly specific, but, you know, we can go in and be creative with the floor plan at the end of the day.

That's a huge advantage. How many apparatus— is it apparati— would there be? What's the plural of apparatus?

Yeah, I don't know, probably— I think we just refer to it as the apparatus. But, um, yeah, I think it's apparatus. Yeah, but 12 stations ultimately in every single studio, and then, um, and a private training room for anyone who wants to do one-on-one training.

Okay.

Um, but we don't do anything bigger than 12 in a, in a, in a room because it is really important to us to have the hands-on cueing and be able to give our customers one-on-one attention as needed.

Right. And so how long is a class?

50 minutes.

All right. And then so you start probably 5:30 AM, 6:00 AM.

We start pretty early and it depends on the market, but yeah, there are, there are studios that start as early as 5:30 and go until 8:00 at night.

Yeah, I know. I have a friend that does Pilates and she would share that, hey, I've got to try to get a spot. And is that— you have that the same thing where you— your people sign up for spots and how far do you let people sign up and how do you manage people that say, look, I signed up and I'm having a hard time getting into the classes that work with my schedule?

Yeah, we typically have the schedule released on a monthly cadence, so it gives everybody a fair shake in terms of being able to book. Okay.

And, um, and you book as many as you want.

If you're, you can book one per day. And if you're a 4-pack or an 8-pack customer, obviously you can only book 4 or 8 classes at a given time, um, within your billing cycle. Um, and there are limited members, they could book, you know, one per day. What we do typically find is that the unlimited members come anywhere between 10 and 12 times on a monthly basis. So, um, you know, the studios can host 400, 500 members, um, and accommodate that with normal primetime classes. So there's, uh, You know, there shouldn't be too many waitlists initially.

Right. And it's a membership model, different, different plans for different people.

Yes. Yep.

Okay. Do you ever do any challenges?

We do. We actually launch a challenge right after we go through a grand opening celebration and process with a new studio.

How much weight do I get to lose?

It's not weight-based. Yeah, but it's really just about participation. And then there's different components of the challenge. Challenge, you know, obviously visitation is going to be really important, but some of the challenges— refer a friend or try a new class format, come to a different instructor, you know. So we try to find different ways to drive various behaviors and engagement across the studio for, for the challenge.

So there's a very— there's a couple different flavors of Pilates around here. Club, kind of the standard, you know, and there's a certain membership that's typically gonna be there. And then there's some that are, tend to be more, more aggressive, a little harder. I think you said, you referred to yourself as the younger something or the younger little, I, I forget how you referred to it, of Club Pilates. Like what's the, is, is, is Pilates Addiction more aggressive? Is it more competitive? Is there offerings that are for people that, uh, like the Orangetheory group, right? I mean, there's people that go to Orangetheory, they're incredibly fit, they show up there, they compete. Um, do you, do you have an offering for those types of people that want to be ultra competitive?

Yes, yes. So that would be our Transcend class. So now I'm with you, but, um, our, our Transcend class is still in the works. Um, and that the idea behind that is that that's going to be the leveled up class and kind of like a, a club-specific class where, um, there would be a requirement to have completed some of our other core classes before being able to go to the Transcend. I took the Transcend class 2 months ago and it was very challenging. So, you know, I have obviously robust Pilates experience and then a colleague of mine with less experience took the class and I think he had 5 classes under his belt and by the end he was just dancing to the music and had kind of given up. So it definitely is going to be for those who are looking to, you know, push to a higher level of Pilates experience and class form. Format. So, we're excited to work on that. And, you know, we're in the process of training our educators on the material and making sure that the studios are ready to roll that out. But, for those that are competitive, yeah, I mean, we don't have leaderboards. We don't, you know, have people compete against other people. It's really about, you know, showing up and doing the best that you can and, you know, competing against yourself, if you will.

Oh. Fitness, and I've been involved with a couple of fitness brands, and, you know, staffing model was pretty traditional. You have people working the front desk, those people are working leads, you have an instructor, uh, typically that's running. If it's group fitness, you have somebody that's on the mic, or I don't know if you guys are on the mic or how you, uh, how your instructors or your leaders do it, but have you done anything different different with the, with the staffing model? Have you been able to centralize anything in terms of lead nurture, customer acquisition, uh, bookings, all of those things? Uh, has there been anything that's evolved in the last few years since I've been out of the industry?

Yeah, I think it's interesting. Our, um, our staffing model is, is consistent with what your experience is. So we have a studio manager, um, a handful of sales associates, a lead educator, and then, um, you know, a handful of Pilates educators that teach the classes. We typically have, um, you know, one educator for the 12 participants and then one sales associate or studio manager at the front desk. So at all times you have two people in the building. We have dabbled in AI and call centers and trying to centralize some of the front end. But what we found is that you definitely lose the sense of community and the white glove treatment on the front end for someone who's trying to explore the concept and get started with Pilates early on. So We went through probably months of research and development last year, and every time we tried to rewrite the script or train the AI, it just came across so impersonal. And fitness and wellness is so personal that it wasn't a good fit. That said, we're looking at leveraging AI and centralized resources after a customer is, you know, part of the membership and gets to know the staff a little bit more and using that to nurture the customer and again, either upgrade them or drive, you know, particular behaviors throughout the system, but then also using that technology to help prompt tasks with the staff at the end of the day so that they can be a little bit more efficient, you know, at the front desk or in the studio as well. So, so definitely looking at, you know, that technology and how it can help the four-wall operation, but, you know, um, with fitness, you know, the moment we started to take kind of the human element out of it, it just became, you know, um, competing on whether or not the workout was good. Um, so yeah.

How do you onboard a new member that's never done it? Is, do they get a free class? Do they get, uh, do they need to take like a private session for somebody to really walk them through the movements? Or do you kind of put 'em in the class and give 'em a little extra attention and And they, they, they find their way.

We offer an intro class and it's a 30-minute class called Ignite, and that's offered at a minimum of every other day across our studios. And that is for all first-timers. It's completely free and allows people to come in and, you know, feel good about trying it for the first time with other people who are trying it for the first time. So they get a tour of of the machine, the studio, and talk to the educator about their experience and maybe any, you know, special needs that they have so that they can get oriented and set up for success at the end of the day. After that, then obviously they can jump into a member class, but we try to have everyone come through that intro class so they all have the first foundational intro, you know, when they first begin.

Pilates Addiction is part of the Sequel platform with multiple other brands. Is there any group packs or any collaboration between the brands at this point? I know many of the brands are emerging, as is Pilates Addiction. Um, what do you— is there, is there any, um, any thoughts around that? And, or maybe is it just too I think it's a bit too soon.

You know, obviously all the brands are housed in the same corporate office. So from a CEO to CEO or a sales team to sales team, marketing to marketing, we're constantly in collaboration and thinking about how we scale each of the brands and each of them are in different growth curves. But from a customer standpoint, we simply just need, you know, more units online, you know, at this point. Point today, I've got, you know, 10 locations open. So there's not really a ton to, you know, go create. We're really focused on just the individual Pilates Addiction experience and trying not to overcomplicate, you know, what that experience looks like. But as we start to hit critical mass, we'll be able to think about overlapping, you know, synergy across the brands.

Thinking about the industry, industry in general. You were involved in fitness when COVID hit.

Mm-hmm.

Things changed. It was kind of the wild, wild west before that. It, it seemed like just massive growth. You put a studio up, you'd fill it up. COVID changed some things. Has the industry recovered from COVID or how, you know, what's changed and, and what remains the same?

Yeah, I, the industry has certainly recovered. I mean, we continue to see Pilates, but also just boutique fitness continues to grow year over year. I think Pilates had its third best year of booking and revenue driven, you know, in the last, in the last 3 years. So it continues to be a modality that outperforms itself even and continues to break its own booking and revenue records and shows no signs of slowing down. I think what ended up happening with, with COVID is that you see that people took their health and wellness taking this a lot more seriously and are making more time for it. And they're making more time for community because they know now what that feels like to be isolated and at home and not have community. So people are seeking places where they can get community and entertainment and lifestyle, um, and of course fitness and wellness kind of all in the same area. So I think that's made boutique fitness even stickier than it was, um, previously. But yeah, there are some shifts in traffic patterns and how people are kind of designing their lives, um, a little bit more work from home than we prior to COVID. But that also gives people more flexibility to be able to, you know, take a class in the middle of the day or an earlier class than they normally would have if they were commuting, you know, throughout their day.

So even a desire to get out of the house.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, we're seeing that the customers are as resilient and strong and eager to, to continue with their membership. So I would say it's, you know, right back where we left off, if not better.

You might not have a view on this, but I would be interested in your perspective on boutique fitness versus the broader wellness categories. We've seen things like GameDay and lots of peptide investment. So as you think about pieces, as you think about all the things that do with health and you think about share of wallet, call it. It used to really just be diet and exercise. That was basically what you had. Now we've got retta and semiglutides and GLP-1s, and then we've got peptides, you know. And if you listen to, I don't know, Gary Brecka and those people, they say if you're going to live another 5 years, you'll live to 120 because of all of the things that we can do to reprogram ourselves and the things that we can take. I wonder if that's going to enhance the fitness marketplace because now people are going to be moving more. They're going to feel better about themselves. Maybe the GLP-1s give them a little boost in their health and fitness. They've lost that weight and now they want to get— they're moving and they want to get— look better and feel better. Do you have a view of that? And I don't know if there's— if it's too early to have any industry statistics, but what's your sense?

That's absolutely what we're seeing is, you know, maybe a customer base that would not have felt comfortable coming into Pilates or giving it a try and even sticking with it is now being, you know, tappable at the end of the day because they are— they have other ways to start to feel better and to resolve, you know, concerns, health concerns and wellness concerns. And that's giving them a kickstart or jumpstart part that then allows them to feel good about coming and working out and doing that on a regular basis, you know. So that's absolutely something that we're seeing. And then in the younger generations, you know, they're giving up toxic, you know, behaviors and various toxins like, you know, alcohol. And they're putting their— call it their alcohol money or that spend, discretionary spend— into health and wellness. So I think there's actually more wallet share than there, than there has been previously.

Yeah, that's really interesting. And it's going to be interesting to see how it tracks. And I mean, I, it just, it seems like everybody's exercising almost nearly everybody's exercising people that, that I know, even people in their fifties and late fifties that it looked like they had given up. Now they've, you know, got on the shot and they've lost some weight and the next thing you know, They're doing a Spartan race or something like that, you know, they're running around. Interesting. Well, I mean, that, I think that bodes well. And then with Pilates versus competition in the marketplace, do you see that? I mean, who would be the big 3 in your opinion? I would say Pilates is definitely one of them. And I think you would throw, would you throw Lagree inside of that and all the kind of variations of it? And then I would say yoga would be another one who would be third, or, or do I have one of, do I have 'em wrong?

Yeah, I think, I think you're right from a, from an accessibility standpoint, you know, and then, and then Orangetheory and Pure Barre, you know, are the next, the large behemoths in boutique fitness. So between, you know, modalities of Pilates and yoga and then footprint of Orangetheory and, and Pure Barre, that kind of covers all of your major players in the boutique fitness space. Yeah. Seen.

How do you feel you compare against the Barrys and the Byrnes, the boot camps?

Yeah, I think it may be a similar customer, but the product offering is so different. So, you know, the more that they kind of find or encourage the younger demographic to come in and, you know, get into boutique fitness and become sticky, I think it just helps all of us. Us do better at the end of the day. So, um, I don't look at them as being competitive and, you know, taking away wallet share. Um, but rather continuing to condition, uh, the customer that it's important and needs to be part of their way of life.

Where does Pilates fall or, or Pilates Addiction fall in price point? I think you'd probably be below maybe CrossFit and certainly Barry's, I think are higher price points. Um, and then, uh, I don't know, what's your, how do you, how do you, where do you stack up in the lineup?

Yeah, the average membership is, you know, call it $200 for an unlimited Pilates membership, uh, which is a little bit less than what you're going to see on, um, you know, on average across the country. Um, and really the reason for that is that we're a brand new brand and, um, you know, we want people to be able to come in and try it without being concerned about, uh,, you know, how much that costs at the end of the day. So, so we are, you know, a low, low price, but obviously high value Pilates experience. And we want people to come in and feel like they're getting more benefit than what they're paying.

You've really done a great job with your career.

Now in your second CEO role, first CEO role, but yes, brand presidents across some major big, you know, players in the industry. Industry.

Okay.

But thank you.

As a CEO of a super fast-growing brand, what's your leadership style?

You know, I'm here every day at the office. And my leadership style is to roll up my sleeves and get in the trenches with both the staff as well as the franchisees. So, there's no job that's too big or too small from my standpoint. Mm-hmm. It's really about having aligned vision on what the end goal is and what success looks looks like. So day in and day out, you know, my question to the team is, how can I help you? Where are you stuck? And what can I do to either, you know, provide more resources or air coverage if we need to? And I would say that's the general, you know, culture here at Sequel Brands. I'll tap in, you know, some other of the CEOs or even Anthony himself if there's help that I need as well. So that's really my leadership style. I don't micromanage. Manage, but I am in the weeds day in and day out and trust my team, trust that they're the best at the jobs, and then I can give them additional support as needed.

Are there capabilities that you recognize that you don't currently have, but you'd like to pursue as a leader?

Oh, that's a good question.

I finally got one.

They've all been good questions. Okay. Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm still building out my team. So, right now, you know, we're playing a little bit more of, you know, what's the challenge for today and how do we scale that? So, what I'm looking forward to is I'm building out my team right now so I can be a little bit more strategic, you know, on my day-to-day basis. But in terms of things that I'm working on, is, you know, it's always communication at the end of the day. And that's, that's something that I continue to think about and continue to work on. And I think that I've done a good job over the last couple of years of improving communication style. But, you know, with, with the way that the world is moving so quickly and instantaneous, you know, responses and things like that is trying to figure out, you know, with our customers, the franchisee and their staff members, how do we continue to be highly responsive and have the right documentation. Obviously, you can't write documents for every single scenario and situation that comes up, but how do we scale in a time where people want everything now and yesterday? So, yeah, doing that without losing the personality, right?

Yeah, exactly. How franchisee-facing do you allow yourself to be?

Oh, they all have my cell phone. Okay. And we have an inside Slack channel, and they DM me and email me. So, um, I'm highly engaged with our franchisees. Uh, you got that, right?

You got that one right. They give me Jeff for a phone call.

I, yeah, I try to jump on the same, same day phone calls with them if, if needed. So I'm very accessible.

First rule of leadership is accessibility.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you, you, they already think you're in the ivory tower, right? They have to be able to get to you. Fantastic. How, um, are you a light, moderate, or heavy AI user as an executive?

Creative? Well, I definitely can't program. I try, but I think I screw it up a lot. You know, I'm dabbling in it. I've started to test the creation of PowerPoint presentations. I'm working on a project manager, you know, Gantt chart tool that I developed with AI. So, you know, using it to do some of those bigger projects that would normally take, you know, weeks on end to kind of put it together, to at least get, call it 60 to 70% completed and then, you know, finishing the rest internally using the resources that I have or manually with myself. But usually I use it for search functions and that's about it.

Yeah. Old habits, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm forcing myself into Claude Cowork space. But, uh, I just, I still use it like a typewriter, basically.

Yeah, exactly.

Write this better. Um, working on it, working on it. I, I think there's a lot of good precedents out there. I, I mean, I really chose that, you know, as, as it was, I was really invested in going places to learn about it. I said, well, here's like 15 different AIs you can use for all of these different things, but if you just wait 90 days, there'll be an agent that can do it all for you. So I just waited 90 days. 90 days.

And did that work?

Yeah. And then it'll go and do all the things, right? So, yeah, so now I'm gonna wait another 90 days and then give— just then I'm out of a job.

Yeah. Yeah, it is moving so fast. Um, yeah.

So, hey, speaking of franchisees, what makes a great operator of a Pilates Addiction?

Yeah, I mean, we talked about communication, but it's franchisees who are communicating, you know, with us here at the corporate office, um, great leaders and communicators down at the local level as well. But yeah, it's someone who comes in every day, and that doesn't mean that they're in their business every single day, but they are thinking about ways to leverage their resources, and they're disciplined around the model and the resources, and disciplined around running their team and driving KPIs that drive the business, and someone who's collaborative and looks at the relationship like a 10-year relationship, you know, so they keep the broader vision in mind and know that You know, business is a risk and there's going to be ebbs and flows and challenges and, you know, a franchisor-franchisee relationship, there's ebbs and flows and they come to, you know, everything with that in mind and with good collaboration. So with that, anything can be problem solved, you know, either at the local level or on a macro level across the brand. Yeah.

And are you, have you found that you've attracted more single-unit operators or more sophisticated, well-capitalized multi-unit operators?

We have both. I have a handful of owners that are getting into franchising and business ownership for the very first time. And then I have a good handful that, you know, have bought 16, 22, 24 units and they're scaling. And this is their second, third, fourth, fifth franchise that they've put their hand to. So we're seeing kind of all of the above and, and seeing success in all of those that are executing the model, which is, which is great, right? Yeah. Uh, that they're all putting the same playbook to work and seeing very similar outcomes.

If you think 10 years down the road and reference back to your experience with Club Pilates, what's kind of an ideal census of franchi— let's say you, you get to your 1,000 studios, how many owners?

Yeah. Today the average owner owns about 3 units. Cool. So at 1,000, you're looking at maybe 300, you know, owners give or take. So, um, I think that's a healthy, healthy ratio.

Yeah, I, I think so too. And there will be consolidators.

Yeah.

People that professionalize the groups and grow them. Um, what are your career aspirations after you successfully build this billion-dollar brand?

You know, I don't really think much about that beyond, you know, what I want to do with the brand. I'm a mom of 3 young girls. I have a 1-year-old, a 3-year-old, and a 5-year-old. So for me, it's really about being the best role model for them and showing them that you can have a good, like, work life and life, life, personal life and kind of do it all. So, you know, really it's, it's about showing that you know, kind of what startup culture looks like and then scaling. And two of my daughters have already been to the New York Stock Exchange. So I think about getting the third one there, but I'm not sure that I want to run a public company again. So I just got to get the picture so they could each have a New York Stock Exchange picture. But outside of that, yeah, I just keep thinking about all the opportunity that exists today in this brand, and that's what I'm focused on.

It's a little young, but are they dancers?

They like to dance to Danny Go and In the Living Room. Um, but that's, that, that's about it for now. We've tried ballet and, um, it went okay. They're a little bit more athletic, um, on that side.

So yeah, freedom in a— freedom within a framework. Let them choose. But yeah, I, I say that, but it, it's odd that all of my children— I've got 28, 25, and 22. Too. And it's, it's odd that they all did participate in all the things that I liked.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Like, if I have to spend a weekend watching something, you know, you might as well all enjoy it, right? Perform for me. Like, that's what it was. It's all right, you know, you can't ruin them. They're very, they're very plot— they're very durable.

Yes. Yeah.

So, yeah, I'm excited for you that you've got it all in front Thank you.

I appreciate that.

Yeah. Well, this has been great. Is there anything that you think we should cover that we haven't?

Yeah, I think the last piece is that, you know, the last year we've been highly focused on domestic development, and in this next year, we just celebrated our 1-year anniversary. You know, we'll start to set our sights on global expansion. So that is something that we're looking forward to as well as going out and finding really solid master franchisors who will will, um, bring the brand to their local markets and be able to, you know, offer Pilates Addiction internationally as well.

Where do you think you'll go first?

It's a good question.

Um, I know that Anthony was over in Australia for a little bit.

Yeah, I was gonna say the APAC region is just kind of a, a no-brainer. Um, but obviously it would be the markets where, um, Pilates is already, you know, known and, and doing very, very well. So, right. Um, But for us, it's about finding the right master and less about targeting specific countries. You know, I mean, it's a little bit of both, obviously, but, you know, we want to make sure that we find the good— a good partner. We've been in discussions with several partners from India, so that may be the first country that comes online, but we'll see.

Awesome. Sarah, I've got a curveball and a fastball for you to wrap wrap it up if you want to play. But before we do that, what would you like to share about where people can either get in touch with you or get more information about the brand?

Yeah, they can follow My Pilates Addiction on Instagram, um, or contact me on LinkedIn at Sarah Luna, and happy to engage with anybody who reaches out on those two platforms.

Awesome. All right, here's the curveball. Gun to your, uh, reformer to your head, you've got to start a business in the next 30 days. It can't be something that you're currently doing, what business would you start? Where do you see the opportunity in the marketplace?

Just any, any business, not in fitness.

Yeah. I mean, if you, if you had to start a business in the next 30 days, like you had to do it, but it couldn't be something you're currently doing. Anything.

Oh man. I think that there's a huge opportunity with, um, with kids' fitness. Okay. And, and I see that, you know, just even with my own girls, um, Yeah. You know, being able to bring them to almost boutique fitness, you know, experiences as well. And, and there are, you know, a couple out there that are doing that, but, um, that's where I would likely go.

Yeah, I, I, I agree. You, that's, there's the wallet is always open for kids and pets.

Yes. Yep.

Okay. Fastball straight down the middle. Here it comes. If you had one sentence to make an impact in somebody's life, what would that be?

This, yeah, the sentence would be, you know, be open to any opportunity and walk through the doors even if you don't know what's on the other side.

Perfectly said. Thanks for being on.

Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, this has been great. I'm Jeff Dudan. We're here with the incredible Sarah Luna on the Unemployable Podcast. Thanks for listening.

Thank you.