The Masculinity Crisis and the Power of Vulnerability Judd Shaw’s Message to Men #199

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Unemployable Podcast. I am Jeff Duden. If you are the founder of one of New Jersey's most busy and thriving law firms, who struggled with identity and purpose and found yourself in full blown addiction to cocaine and crystal meth and turned it all around, and today hosts the behind the Armor podcast, is a thought leader in emotional resilience, authenticity, and organizational cultural transformation. And gives back through his children's book series, Sterling the Night. Your name can only be the one, the only Judge Shaw. Welcome.

Hey, Jeff. Thanks for that introduction. Wow, I feel so honored. But it's great to be here, brother.

Riches to rags to riches again. I don't think he ever lost it, though. I just, I think like so many of us here that are entrepreneurs and business builders and people like, we struggle for who we need to be. Especially after we've had some success, it's. It's difficult to do. So here's my opener. Why do we create Personas for the outside world and find ourselves last?

What a great lead off question. And I think that goes to authenticity. Most people don't realize it's our superpower. It's how we best connect with other people. It's how we find opportunity in uncertainty. It's how we find a path forward when we're struggling and we need some help. But so many of us over time have layered masks on from childhood, from our parents, from our teachers, to our relationships and how we've shown up and to our experiences that so many of us don't even realize we're wearing them anymore. And, and, and so I think what happens is over time, we get more and more disconnected from our true selves and we've stopped showing up real and raw.

Isn't it interesting how much power we give other people over us? Sometimes even people we haven't yet met?

Yeah, sure. Because judgment breeds shame and shame thrives in darkness. And so when we keep those things silent, when we are concerned about what others think, we're concerned about external things. When we're moving away from our own values and we're no longer really aligned with who we are, we give that a lot of our own power away.

Judd, I've heard you talk a little bit about your father. Would you share a little bit about how you grew up?

Well, I grew up in New Orleans, Louisiana.

Okay. Great food.

It is great food. For the first part of my life, up to about 14 years old, and I went to move with my father. My father was a famous boxing promoter. He. He put on some of the largest fights in, in the history of boxing. Lewis, Tyson. Holyfield. Tyson.

Wow.

Some, some big fights. And, and in that, because he was around boxing, he had a certain perspective on masculinity. We don't cry, we don't get hurt. Show up, be tough, don't be vulnerable. That's weakness. And, and he was admired for all of these things that he had, the, the jewelry, the fancy cars, the high life. And so what it did was it sort of mirrored what success and what being a man looked like for me. And so that became my marker. And so for so long I chased that success and, and, and looked at that as my sort of engage on whether, you know, I'm even showing up as a man. And so what happened ultimately was when the casinos would roll out the red carpet and they would throw these big events for him and I, and I picked up on how many people oohed and odd over his power, his things. And so then I went and chased the Rolex watch and got it the Ferrari and got it the boat and got it the big houses and all of these things. And then now I've, I've climbed mount success, so to speak, by anybody's, you know, sort of standard. And I was the most unhappiest and the most loneliest I had ever been. And I couldn't understand why. I bought in to what I thought being a man was, what I thought showing up and, you know, making my father proud and all of these things only led to really a really dark hole for me.

When we think about models for manhood, the first, most obvious place we get them is from our father. And then we look at our father's friend group today. Social media, regular media, school education. Everybody seems to have really focused on what everybody else needs to think about, what they need to model for young people today. It's got to be so confusing and it's got to be more difficult to have an identity and have a role as a man today that people can feel good about. So as, as you were growing up, you're in New Orleans, you're, you're on, you're, you're going around with your father and people are giving him gifts. People, people are acknowledging him, people are glad to see him. You're getting access to places where normal people don't get access to and get invited to. You're probably riding on planes and doing all this kind of stuff. What was it then? What kind of a student were you? And then how is it that you ended up going to Law school.

You know, I. I want to go back to what you said about the masculinity part, because I think it was really an important comment, Jeff, and that is that we're almost in an identity crisis here. Yes, our young men, particularly boys, teenage boys, young 20s, are reporting now some of the highest suicide rates across the data. We're finding men over women by almost 65%. And young men are making up more and more of that curve now. And I think that's because what happens is there are these two perspectives on the masculinity side. One of them is healthy and one of them is toxic. And social media is bringing a lot of that out. The Mr. Beasts, the, you know, all these different accounts, some of them toxic, some of them not so toxic. But what they're doing is they're admiring and they're showcasing the success and the money and the validation and the power and things of that nature. And so our young men are saying, well, this is what I need to be a man. You know, for so long, we had a code of chivalry, when you thought about it back in the medieval times, and that's how young squires became knights and ultimately became men. We die on our sword. We, you know, with valor and pride. And we don't carry swords around anymore. We don't have this armor anymore. But what we're doing is we've now shifted. And thankfully, after the industrial revolution, where women started showing up in power and politics, in jobs, in society, and as that continue to move, our. Our women now today can get their own apartment. They can order food on an app or cook it for themselves. They. They can essentially provide and create safety for themselves in a way that men used to be acknowledged for being a provider. And, you know, the more money, the more important they were, and the more important, the more. And things of that nature. And so we're pulling that away from men because women are becoming more independent, which is an amazing won thing. But we're not dealing with what's happening as these glass ceilings get broken and these shards are falling down on young men and saying, well, if I can't provide, if I'm not going to be measured by my success, then what am I measured by anymore? What's my. What's my meaning to the world? And I think that's where we start to shift towards presence and authenticity and vulnerability and men tapping into emotional skill sets and being able to show up as a present human being. So I think that was a really key point, and I didn't Want to miss that. Going back to that, though, for me, in New Orleans, I was not a great student at all. I suffered a lot from. From my own sort of trauma that I was going through. My parents were going through a very difficult divorce. I was emotionally, physically abused at some point. And. And so I struggled. I tried to commit suicide as early as 12 years old by taking a whole bunch of pills. My stomach was pumped at 12 years old.

Wow.

And so, you know, that I think speaks to sort of the childhood that I had. And so really I was sort of lost. And to answer your question on why I went to law school, it was because when I saw shows that depicted lawyers, they were always, you know, these criminal defense attorneys or these constitutional lawyers on these television shows, and they were changing lives or making big impact or. And they would come out and all the cameras would be in front of them and tell me, tell me he's innocent, he's in. Right? And all the. And I was like, I want to do that, I want to do that. Because what I had thought is that if I could be more important, if I could be more validated, if people will see me and want to put up a camera and a microphone in front of me, I must be more important. And therefore, if I'm more important, I'm more lovable. And so that going to law school started one of my addictions, which was success, which was really the drive to say, if I can make it, I don't need my father anymore and everybody will love me.

So you hijacked a Persona of significance to replace the ones that you were exposed to, and then you ran to it. Just like you. I kind of want to go backwards a little bit back into this young man. Have you. Are you familiar with the works? It's a faith based work. Raising a modern day knight.

Yes.

Yeah, I never went through that process with my sons. I have two sons. I know you have six children. So I. By the law of averages, you probably have a couple of sons or one or two, unless you're just throwing straight girls. But I don't know. But, you know, it's. It. You know, we used athletics. We used. But I wasn't particularly thoughtful or intentional father, really. I mean, I worked at it, tried to lead by example, invested the time through coaching and athletics and things like that. But man, so much of what my kids learned was from other coaches, other fathers, teachers and things like that. And I think the best thing that we did was just put them in environments where we thought that those influences were healthy. And were aligned with our worldview and the way that we felt that we would want our kids to be educated. And we filled a lot of gap. I think if, if we did something well, is we filled a lot of gap with other people that, you know, gave our boys kind of a well rounded view of, you know, who they, who they might consider being as a, as a young man and as a young adult and, and you know, it's, it's, it's worked out very well. I'm very proud of both of them. But man, it is the shades of variation in how our young people are being influenced now. I don't see it being easy for them to navigate. And with that, as they go out and they try to navigate the world and they try to pick careers, they try to pick partners, spouses, all of these types of things, I think I see there being more confusion as these young people reach adulthood and maybe like you perhaps did, as I understand your story and myself, I had to go backwards before I went forwards. I mean, I really had, I had a hard, hard reset when I was about 20 years old. You know, I failed out of a college. I dropped back to a juco. I went to a house that was empty. It was parentless. You know, I make jokes that we had, you know, apples, hot dogs and government cheese. But like, that's not far off. I mean, when I showed up to college, I had five T shirts. Two of them were, were won at like raffles. You know, it's my trash bag was my suitcase and stuff. So I had like a hard reset. And my gosh, I'm so thankful for it. It was the best thing that ever happened to me because it, you know, I, I, I stopped going down certain paths and I went down another path. So you seem, you had, you must have had a hard reset when you were in your early teens or your mid teens to allow you to even get to law school and, and to, to be able to, you know, turn it around. So I'm really interested to know like, like what were the influences that you found that ended up getting you on the path to a very successful and celebrated law career.

Well, you know, the truth is that my healing only began about five years ago in 2020. I had many sort of resets. But what my reset did was it only sort of said, this is not where I want to be. I'm down in a hole, I'm not reaching goals and things of that nature. And so I sort of reset. And those resets usually moved me from one addiction to another. Because what happened was I never actually healed the inner child. I never healed the wounded part of me that required external validation, that required achievement and celebration and acknowledgement and these things. And so. Or even required escape from. From pain. And so what happened was I come out of law school and I get married, and I married this woman who was incredibly wealthy. I married her for money. And I felt that if she had a lot of money, then that would give me access to even more lovability. And we had three children together. And now I'm going to work. And success is my drive. I am now flying on a, you know, private plane to my country club in Key Largo, Florida, which is gated behind my gated house, to get onto my crude yacht. And I say that because what happened was the more successful I got, the more lonely I got, the more disconnected I got. I didn't even need to fly at an airport with other people. And so my world became actually really small and very lonely. And. And in that, even though my name had been on billboards all across New Jersey, what ultimately happened was all of this success, as I mentioned earlier, all of this people were now applauding the veneer. They were applauding a version of me that wasn't really me. They were, you know, applauding the success that really came from a wounded place that needed that to feel loved. And so, ultimately, it was June, 2020, summer, early summer morning in New Jersey. It was still humid out. And I'm driving to my office when police lights flash in my rearview mirror. And those blue and lights are, are, are, are are right there in my face. I pull over. Police officer said that there's a warrant out for my arrest. Turned out that my wife had made a false allegation, encouraged by her lawyer and her father, who wanted them to divorce me. She later acknowledged that to the judge who expunged it. But the damage was already done. I was brought to jail for a day. I came out of jail to a big, empty home, and I'm surrounded by these exotic cars. And I lay on my garage floor, Jeff. And I curl up in a fetal position like I'm back in the safety of my. My mother's womb. And I just cried this uncontrollable, shaking kind of cry because I had just realized that after all of these decades of building this very successful company and having all the external things that everybody told me would bring me happiness, and it didn't. And I felt broken. I actually told myself that you're broken. How can this not. How can this not satisfy you? How can you not feel joy in your life? And I was 50, 50 on whether I wanted to. To move on with my life at all, until I did something that I had never done before. And this goes back into the most important work that men can do with each other. I picked up the phone and I asked for help. I called a buddy of mine and I said, you don't know what's going on. This is what's behind the scenes. Every night at after work, I go and I drive into the sketchiest neighborhoods, and I go into a methamphetamine dental, and I spend all night there in the toxic haze and the fumes with a bunch of strangers doing meth. And then I come home at some point and I shower and I see the family. And my ex now was enabling it then because she just didn't want her life to change. And so nobody was stopping it. And there I was in this horrible cycle for a while, until I was on that garage floor, picked up the phone, asked for help, and my buddy got me into a rehab for three months out into California. And this was just five years ago. And what I did on the other side of that when I came out is I said, I have to understand the root of my problem. I have to find out where this is coming from. That I had all this, and I still couldn't find happiness, joy, and satisfaction. And so I went on this real healing journey to understand and to find that joy. And that search led me to understanding that the answer was connection. Authentic, real, raw, human connection.

Were you able to make these changes without dismantling and losing everything that you had worked for?

No. Great question. Absolutely, 1,000% no. Because also, what happened? As my success grew, my ego and my pride grew, and my. My. My inner critic grew, too. And so those things had to be broken down in order for me to start to go on a healing journey. Because I wouldn't have been so open to healing. I wouldn't have been accepting to healing. I wouldn't have thought maybe I even needed healing. And so all of those things had to be torn down. I wore a shirt last night. I went to a recovery sober living facility and spoke to a bunch of men just last night. And my shirt said, rock bottom built me. And I believe that to be true.

Are all successful people addicts of one flavor or another?

I'll tell you this. I can't tell you in generality whether that's across the board, but I do know a lot of successful people and in that success, the answer would be yes. That drive is coming from somewhere. It's either coming from an overcompensation, a wounded place, and, and, and, and it's, it's a strong drive or, or it's still coming, oftentimes from a place that requires a purpose and passion. That's different than just living life.

I've come to believe that everybody's an addict. I was doing a talk down in Clearwater, Florida last week to a leadership group, and I challenged him. I said, you know, you're an addict, even if it's just to the Home Shopping Network or if it's Candy Crush on your phone, or if it's processed foods or whatever it is. I mean, we have things that we do that makes us feel good. Jordan Peterson had this great line about alcohol, and he said, alcohol is great. I loved it. It's very exciting. You have a good time. You think your inhibitions go away, but your decisions remain intact. You just make the same decisions. You just don't care about the consequences as much. He goes, your goal in life is to find something that's more exciting, and that's you. You have to find things that are more exciting. And I, I know that I am going to need to maintain some business aspect for the rest of my life. I don't think I'll be able to completely retire because if, if I go to fishing and golfing or things that are not that exciting, then I will fill my life with something that is exciting and it probably won't be good for me. So, you know, I'm, I have to focus on exercise or body hacks or, you know, reading or writing a book or building a small business, whatever it is. But like, I know that I have an addictive personality, and now, but it's my choice and my power, what I choose to be addicted to.

You know, some, some of us have a very difficult time doing nothing. But yes, nothing is important. And, and I don't know about everybody across the board, and I can't tell you about all the different kinds of addictions or there are out there. I certainly suffered from many of them. But I can tell you, when it comes to drugs and alcohol, particular drugs that I know very well, Dr. Gabor Mate says very, I think poignantly, it's not why the addiction, it's why what's the pain. And so I think that when it comes to that particular addiction, at least for me, that's usually a numbing, an escape, a running from. It's, it's A pain that's too difficult to bear, too difficult to feel with, as opposed to, you know, sitting on the couch and numbing out with Candy Crush. But yes, I think many of us are disconnected from ourselves and from our others. And so we, we find, we find these ways to, to numb that.

There's power in reframing, but is that a band aid or is, is that real work?

I think reframing is a, is a start and it's important, depending on how you're flipping the script, is your perspective coming from a narrative and belief that's not healthy. So for instance, I can say I'm, I'm going to reframe my life, but it's only because as a result of what my ex wife did, that's not going to be a healthy narrative. It's what's my part in it, what was my role in it. And when you can see that and start to see the truth to, to how you show up to the problem you're trying to deal with, to the way you want to reframe, how you want to approach the next chapter of your life, all of these things are important to come from a very healthy narrative and belief, which really underneath that is the truth about what your part was in it. But yeah, I think once you can start to take honesty and accountability to, to the choices you've made, reframing them can be a helpful start.

In June 2020, was that your rock bottom?

That was my most recent rock bottom. That's a great question, Jeff, because I think a lot of people think of rock bottom as the lowest you can go. But I think about it as a whole and that you're in, and I was in that hole before, you know, I fell in the hole in my early 20s with meth. I went to Arizona State University. I dropped out of college. I started to learn how to traffic drugs from the Hell's Angels who controlled the meth trade out in Arizona before the cartel came in. And I, I, I bought a motorcycle, I driving down to Nogales, you know, so I, that, that first hole I fell into was a deep hole because I got really deep in, in, in drug trafficking and, and drugs. And that was my first hole. You know, I then reached a certain level of success and I, I hid behind everything in a successful mask, and that disconnected me from myself. And so I fell into another hole. And so, yeah, June 2020 was my most recent rock bottom. But there, I want you to know, like, you can fall in the hole again and it's okay. Because you're going to climb out. But, you know, those who say, I had a rock bottom and you have another one, and you don't give yourself the grace and compassion to understand that that can happen a few times in our lives. It makes it more difficult to climb out.

If you were going to make a list of the things that you took out of your life and you subtracted and the things that you added back in, in June, July, August, however long it took in 2020, what would be on that list? What did you take away?

Such a great question. You know, Arthur Brooks writes a great statement in his book Strength to Strength when he says, your satisfaction equals your wants, your halves minus your wants. So take your halves minus your wants, and that's your equal of your level of satisfaction. In other words, instead of making a bucket list, make an unbucket list. Because the more things you want, the less obvious grateful of the things you have are present. And so for me, what I did was there were a lot of things I had. What I wanted to take away was the wants. So I took away the bucket list. It took away the seven ideas that I had that I was going to go and travel the world. I took away the need to be on more billboards. What I did was I stripped myself instead of change them for something else. And I thought about it like, wow, that was a great statement. If I can reduce my wants, I can step into gratitude, which is the highest frequency we can come from, you know, putting it out, that positive energy in the universe and focus on the halves. And that's what the. I think that's the first thing I. And primary thing I did.

Ugh. I got goosebumps right now because I. So I've. I booked off my entire Friday to recast myself. And that will be a big part of it. If the more wants you take away, the closer you're going to be to satisfaction and fulfill fulfillment.

Right.

That is a. That's a mic drop. We're done now. We're not done. There might be more. I'm going to keep you on, Judd. So there was a book that I read, and it was a Holocaust survivor. It was a young lady, and she only had one doll. That was the only thing that survived with her during surviving the Holocaust. And her comment was that because it was a single thing that, you know, you. You can't love a thousand things. You can't love a hundred toys. But she had this one thing, and it was because that's all that she had. She loved it so deeply And I think there's a. That always. That always resonated with me in the fact as, I mean, I, you know, you know, I've had financial success similar to you, and, you know, you end up with the houses and you end up with the cars and you end up with. You know, people can order things on Amazon and it doesn't even matter, and you just become numb. You just become numbed. It's just. There's another thing that showed up in my foyer to replace the thing that was there before, and none of these things matter. And I. For me, I just get. It just depresses me. It's like this thing doesn't matter more than this thing. It's just a different color. What was the absolute point of all of it is. And I can't tell you how many times I've thought about just moving to, you know, out into the woods in Maine somewhere and having the minimal viable life and probably would be so much happier and more fulfilled. But then you have obligations, you've got people that you've. That you're responsible for and things that you've started and all of these types of things. Of things. But, man, that will stick with me. And I will definitely get that book.

By Arthur Brook, you said, Arthur Brooks, Strength to Strength. It's an amazing book. I recommend it highly. And the second book, I would also, since we're just mentioning it, on exactly what you're talking about, Jeff, Another Holocaust survival. Viktor Frankl.

Oh, yeah.

Wrote Man's Search for Meaning.

Yeah, I read it. It's great. Yep. Well, we took a dark turn here.

You know, I. I think. I think here. Here's something that came up as you said, that. And it's. It's the power of vulnerability. To me, it's not a weakness. It's a strength. And what happens is, is it allows for. For us to share these things in a way that you just expressed. It's a way that I can own my story, step out from shame, tell it without concern of judgment. I believe that vulnerability is today's man's superpower. You know, we had. We used to have that medieval code of conduct on how men would show up, and you just mentioned this, and I think this is an important point. You'd like to go out and live this certain life, but there you have responsibilities, and that's where the balance, I think us men need to focus our attention on is making sure that we're still connecting with ourselves and connecting with another man. And that's because what happens is we feel we have to provide, we have to do this, and then we have responsibilities. And that can walk us into a man trap. Which believed that society taught us that these are how we're supposed to show up. We make money, we provide, we get the house, we take care of the kids, we do this. But what happens is a lot of times we're not thinking or connecting with ourselves and we're not connecting with another man. And when that happens, we could be providing, we could be meeting all the responsibilities that we think we need to do as a man, but really disconnected from ourselves. And that's what led to the loneliness that I felt, the isolation that I felt, and quite frankly, the unhappiness I couldn't share with another man what was I was going through. I had to show up and still get to work the next day and provide. And all of these things, I think are leading to why we have such high suicide rates for young men in today's world. And I think that if we can have these conversations, share tips and get real and raw men will begin to move from survival to thriver.

I was taught by the coaches and people that I was close to that I was, it was honorable to live a life of service. You sacrifice for your teammates, you take the charge, you get on the floor for the loose ball, you sacrifice yourself for the good of the game or whatever it is. And those lessons, to me, that was my self narrative. I live a life of service. I'm here to serve others, I'm here to provide, I'm here to show up. Somewhere along the way I got the narrative that I'm here to build things and to create things and to start things and to use those things again to serve others and to create opportunities for others, whether that be income or businesses or whatever it is. But what's missing in that is this sense of service to oneself. It was always, you are here to be, you are here to sacrifice, you're here to be, to work hard and to do the hard job and to just continue to show up. And inside of none of that. And I think was this concept of, yeah, but what about you? Are you okay? Are you. What do you want out of this deal? But I also think that's part of what's gotten lost. I mean, the pendulum always swings so far and both directions, right? So where, you know, the greatest generation was the generation of sacrifice. We went to war, they came back, they worked in the factories, they built homes, they built the greatest economy that's ever, longest running, best economy that's ever been. And, and now the pendulum swung back the other way where, you know, it's, it's all about me and it's all about us. And you know, what can I, what can we take and what can we redistribute and all of that? You know, it's an interesting time to be in, but I certainly understand how men can get lost inside of that. Is that a big part of your work right now is focusing on reframing things for young men so that they can have a more realistic view of who they might need to be to be happy?

Yeah. And I would say it's men in general. Okay. You know, young, young men I feel like I can get to before we're compounding the problem. But it's men across the board. The first thing I would tell anybody, any man who's working with another guy or trying to help another guy, go first. Okay, Tell your struggle, tell your story. And that gives permission for another guy to tell it to. Because as you pointed out before, we get concerned about judgment, what people are going to say, taking advantage of me, being seen weak. And so go first explain your side. And it gives the allowance for somebody to have take the agency and tell their story and, and own it too. And so what I try to do is I, I work with guys in, in a way of helping them understand how they can drive connection with themselves. Because to your point, we can jump into service for others or, but that can, that can begin to look like die on your sword, which was what we told, you know, men to do hundreds and hundreds of years ago. You know, go do that. But men dying didn't help anybody else. And so what we're doing is we're doing the same if we're not providing any self care or self connection. And so what I tell the guys, the first thing that I tell guys to do in, in my work, vulnerability speaks to, underneath all of it. That's the tool to driving connection. Authenticity and vulnerability are two sides of the same coin. And when I can help somebody understand, the first thing you need to do is understand how are you showing up to the world? How, how do you, if you can objectively measure. And I took a, a soft poll of the 10 guys that around your life. What would they say about how you show up and is it aligned with how you do want to show up? I'll give an example. I wasn't very empathic at all. I didn't have a lot of compassion for people because my idea was, you know, I grew up and had a terrible upbringing and so sorry you have one too. But I knew that I liked receiving compassion. I liked when somebody showed me grace. So I wanted to, to be able to do that too. So I started learning about how to be more empathic, how to give compassion, show compassion, forgive. And so the more I learned about it, the more I was able to show up this way. So that first step is how are you? Are you aware of how you show up in the world and is aligned with how do want to show up? And if those things aren't square, what can you do to, to get it there? And the second thing is understanding your, your wound, your pain, your drive, right? Is it coming from a healthy place or not a healthy place? And if it's not healthy, what are you doing to heal that? The, the, the next step is once you understand how you're showing up and why you're showing up that way, it's now time to renew that connection with yourself. So for me that meant things like yoga. I didn't know that. I really like that. But it's a time where I can get embodied. I can tap into my breath, I can get quiet, I could focus on stretching or even, you know, sweating. And I, I, and I, I found that's an activity that I really enjoyed. And so I began to do it. But it was only when I started to explore things that brought me self care. And then that last step is expanding it, which is the service component. It's how once you can establish connection with yourself, you're showing up authentically across the board. By the way, I'm not a different boss than I am a husband at home, a community member, my church, you know, a parent among the school. I'm the same Judd version across the board. And, and, and once that's aligned, I can start to do this kind of work which is helping others tap into their connection. And so that the primary point part of my work.

I would be interested to know of the people that you ask, you know, ask the 10 men in your life what they think and how many actually have 10. I don't think people have 10. I would have, I, I would have a hard time.

That's a great point.

I, like, I have a lot of business acquaintances, but if you asked me like name 10 men that really know who I am, I don't think I could.

That's a great point. I think that when I, you know, say that, it's sort of about your, your 180 sphere. There are probably men who are still in your workplace or whatever, but to the part you're talking about, a true connection, that the one question that I do ask is, do you have somebody who you can tell all your secrets to? Another guy? Do you have a friend that knows you completely? And you'd be surprised of how many guys say no. And that's the first part of the problem. When men don't have a safe space with another man, we are hurting ourselves, and we're hurting ourselves generationally.

Yeah, there's. I don't. There's not a person that knows everything about me.

Yeah. And I would. I would challenge you to ask yourself, what are those secrets that you carry? What are those things that you're too afraid to show? What are those things that you're still wearing masks about? And are there any of those that you can begin to let go of with a safe space, a person who you feel comfortable with? I mean, that goes back to, you know, an aa, an NA or any of these programs or recovery programs. There's the idea of a sponsor, and there's also one of the steps of those programs is making a complete and honest list of inventory of all the things you've done that you need to make some of those things. You know, we. We say we don't have to share them all with one person, but the real. The concept of that is, are you. Are you able to show up your real and raw self? Like, are you able to be you around another human being? Because that's. That's where in lies most of the disconnection is that many people will say no, but I can be this person with this person or this person with. With this person, as opposed to the same.

I coach business owners, hundreds of them, maybe thousands, through the podcast, through talks that I go around the country and do. How would you speak to the puzzle of a business owner integrating or aligning with their personal life and then incorporating compassion, empathy, vulnerability, and authenticity? Because if I've done anything right, it's. I am who I am in all phases of my life. And, you know, how I parent, how I manage relationships, how I coach business owners, how I deal with our employees. You're going to get incredible consistency from me. And I have learned to be authentic. I've learned to be vulnerable, honest, even if it. You know, sometimes the decision's easy, but the consequences are hard. But I'm. I've. I've learned that any business consequences aren't really fatal. They're just going to cost you some money or some ego or things like that. And I've realized that dealing with things up front and with a respect and resolution bent and just looking people in the eye and connecting with them and really trying to understand what their problems are and help them solve those things, to me, that just you can. People will give you $10 for every dollar that you can take from them if you really, really help them. What you know, you know, but. But we have so many new business owners out there. You know, how could you speak to these people and. Or maybe maybe share your experience. Experience about how you've been able to align and integrate your person with your business and now with a career, I assume is speaking to and informing people about how they can find fulfillment and satisfaction in their lives.

What a great question. You know, I'm an active CEO of my law firm and my brand, and, you know, in that lead many people. And so what I found is, I like to say a Leadership version 1.0 and 2.0. And in that 1.0, I had to have all the answers. I couldn't show vulnerability. I. I couldn't be my authentic self. Had to be your boss. And then what happened was in my 2.0 version, when I returned to my law firm after my healing journey, I realized that being able to say, you know, hey, this is tough for our business, you know, this is really. This is a challenge. Being able to tell my story and own it, being able to recognize that I don't have all the answers and, and, and there is uncertainty. But in that uncertainty, we can find opportunity. And in this shift of leadership, what happened was when I was able to continue with authenticity and vulnerability, I gave my team permission to do the same. That's the key. Because oftentimes the silent killer in businesses is shame. Businesses and companies don't want to talk about it. Nobody wants to talk about shame because they think about like, oh, everybody's going to come and now unload all their. That's not what shame in the workplace looks like. Shame in the workplace looks like a boss who must have all the answers. And therefore, I'm the employee and I can't make a mistake. And so if I made a small mistake, I'm going to bury that. That's going to fly under the radar. And if I'm making one and this person's making one and Jimmy and Jane are making one, how many mistakes are being made at the company or the organization that aren't being addressed, changed, corrected? The other part is team members don't want to be judged. Right? The business leader, 1.0 Judd. I mean, he's gonna say I'm dumb, I'm not worthy of my pay, I shouldn't be here. You know, when I, when I can't acknowledge that I have my own struggles or I'm having a difficult time, my team doesn't collaborate, my team doesn't innovate. Why? Because it's a trickle down effect. It's mirroring. Just like kids mirror their parents, we meant we mirror our mentors, we mirror our leaders. And when I came into that second point, that version retention went up, innovation went up, collaboration went up, mistakes went down, drive and intensity and culture grew. Why? Because now what happened was I'm able. The authenticity part isn't necessarily bringing my parenting in, you know, to my work. I'm not a kindergarten teacher. It isn't, you know, crossing. What it basically is saying is that you're going to get that same version. And, and that means that I may be able to say, I'm having a problem here where we're going through a really difficult challenge. I could really use some help. I mean, your team will drive through a wall for you when you come with that attitude. Yes, they're able to say, hey, I'm spinning my wheels on something. Does anybody have an answer for me? And so now the business starts to move the needle faster, the organization starts to circle around itself and people stay because authenticity drives trust. And trust is the number one factor for employee satisfaction overall in the workplace is am I feeling like I can trust my leader and am I trusted to find a purpose and passion in what I'm doing? And so I think that ultimately when you show up as your version, to be able to, to, to, to acknowledge these things, to lead from a heart centered place, your workplace will improve, will success, will succeed and drive.

Shame and blame. Our cousins and one of the things that we talk about here is so if, if you want to build a great business, there's really two things that you can do as an owner that will make a great impact. One is you can create clarity. So that because when people are unclear, they do one of three things. They do nothing, they hesitate, or they make something up. So reducing clarity. And then the second thing is latency from the moment that a decision has been made or a recognition of an action that needs to be taken to the moment that it's implemented and completed. That's latency in your business. So whatever wasn't going right is continuing to go right until it's continuing to go wrong until it's fixed. So one of Your roles as a leader is to improve clarity and to reduce latency of your business so that things just flow. And so I teach these three little words. It's called rush to conflict. So the moment that you recognize something is going wrong, that's a conflict, you have to rush to it, but you have to show up without a blow up. So I use this little phrase and I forget who it's, I forget who the author of it is, but he said, the person who can most accurately describe reality without laying blame shall emerge as the leader. And so if you think about it, and the reason that people don't show up and, or they let things go is because they want to, they don't want to take the blame for it, or they just want to show up and say, you didn't do this or you didn't do that or it didn't go well. As opposed to showing up and saying, hey, here's the situation. This is what we're trying to do, this is what's happening. What do we need to do to get back to what we are trying to do without laying blame? Because surely there's always somebody that's responsible. But at the end of the day, it might not have been intentional, they might not have been clear or whatever the situation might be. So showing up without the show up, without the blow up, just accurately describe reality. Don't, don't, don't place blame and try to get the situation resolved. And if you do that, it is very, I mean, you are showing up with authenticity, you're showing up with honesty. You're not showing up to figure out who gets fired or who doesn't get fired or who gets rewarded. You're just trying to solve the problem. And I have found that people react exceptionally well to that environment. As a leader, you want to be consistent. You don't want people to, you know, get rewarded for something they should have been rewarded for and then get shot for, you know, and fired for things that, that may not have been their fault because you don't want the blame to fall back on you. So at the end of the day, it comes back to ego, right? Oh, things didn't go well. I just want everyone to know that it wasn't my fault. And we get that with franchise owners a lot. I mean, they may or may not be following the plan, but they want to make sure that everybody in the system knows that it wasn't their fault at the end of the day, which they're not being vulnerable, they're not being self aware. They're not being honest with it. And we, we all, and I'm not just saying that about franchise owners, I mean all of us have, are at risk of letting our ego get in the way of, of our ability to really connect and to really solve the problem in a healthy manner. At the end of the day, it's right. You're either an angles and leverage player or you're a respect and resolution player. And while we look for people to be business owners that are impatient, that are hard charged, that are really driven, they also need to have the side of them that will resolve conflicts in a healthy manner. And that starts with vulnerability and authenticity and compassion and empathy and your willingness to listen and to really look for the best solution. Regardless. Ultimately, it's always going to be somebody's fault. Like when things go off the rails, we all had a hand in it, or somebody had more of a hand in it than others. But it might not be helpful to get the thing moving down the right path. So I really applaud your, and it resonates with me, the Leader 1.0 and the Leader 2.0 or CEO 1.0 and 2.0, because it's, it's a subtle but significant distinction.

You know, praise in public, critique in private, you know, is, is one of the things I tell any manager supervisor. And we rolled out what we call the fail forward initiative. Jeff and what our fail forward initiative was is that when something went wrong, department or team could come together but they could not assign blame. That's one thing they weren't allowed to do in discussing the problem.

There you go.

And so we called it to fail forward initiative, which means everybody is say like what can we do to improve it? How can we fix it? What's the path forward? Who or what it, it did not matter anymore.

Right.

And then once we rolled out this fail forward initiative in our team, members didn't feel like they were, you know, at the getting thrown into the fire here. Actually mistakes came to the surface more often and innovation grew as a result of it. Our, our, our, our team felt safe in a zone to discuss this problem. And you know, who, who is at fault was the least problem. If that person is always at fault for the ongoing problem, that's something you as a leadership have to deal with in private.

Right.

But among the team, you know, it's all about what's going to solve the problem, not who, who made the problem.

Yeah, no, I, I think, you know, and when you get into corporate America, right, the bigger the organization gets the more bureaucratic it gets, the more everybody's just headhunting as opposed to being solution focused. And it's just not helpful. I, you know, that's probably why I'm a startup guy. I love the scrum where you're starting it. You've got a huge problem, you're under resourced, you got five, six, seven, eight people, and everybody's just pitching in to figure out how to get it. But then that's also why small businesses stay small. Because your leadership lid needs to be so much higher as the organization small scales and to build you to maintain that sort of a culture as the organization scales. It's, it's really, it, it's really the art of it. So.

Totally agree.

So if somebody, if you were gonna, if, if, if somebody's listening today and this resonates with them and maybe they're, maybe they're listening to this and they realize that they've let their wants control their self image and maybe things aren't working out the way they want. And the relationships in there, they don't have the right relationships in their life. And the ones that they have may be suffering. Where would somebody start with self discovery? Where would you advise them to go? And what are some of the first simple steps that people can take to really unpack themselves and see and explore if they might want to make some shifts to the way that they're managing themselves and their view of the world?

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, when I went on this healing journey, I tried everything. If you told me, hang upside down and hold a squirrel in your left hand while an apple in your mouth, for one minute I was down, I'm holding a squirrel, I got the apple in the mouth.

I did try healing. I did that in college knowledge. It didn't work.

Therapies, it didn't work right.

I tried it.

It didn't work for me either.

It wasn't a squirrel.

You know, cold plunges, plant medicine, all different kinds of therapies. And a lot of us just don't have the time or the resource or, you know, you feel like you need a lifeline and it's difficult. And so the first place I like to start is, is discovery. Do you know your core values? And so what happened was there was a time where you could ask me my core values and I would regurgitate to you the core values that are on my office wall in the cafeteria. Because I didn't realize that we as people have core values too. And so what I did at my website, judgeshaw.com, there's a free core value worksheet for anybody if they are interested. It's free. There's nothing in return. I created a way to narrow down your five core values. So can you name your core values? Is the first question for you to ask yourself. Mine are. Number one is seek genuine safety. Because if I don't feel safe in the world, I'm. I'm coming from a dysregulated place, so I need to feel safe. My second one is cherish family. My third one is live with adventure, seek adventure. My fourth is living with passion. And my fifth is do service for others. And those feel right to me. And so then I can start making decisions based on those core values. Am I moving away from my values or am I moving closer to my values? And the more aligned you are, the more you'll find things that start to feel passionate, that start to feel purposeful, that start to waken energy inside your soul. And, and many of us just don't know our values or can't name them like a company can. And the company is important to be able to have those values because it needs to set the tone for what others are going to follow. But if you don't have your own personal values, what's your North Star? What's your marker? And how you're going to start to do this and show up. And so I created this workshop sheet where there's a YouTube video that I do alongside with it and it's really just a gift from me to, to anyone, which shows you these five steps in basically coming up with values, words that feel really good, then how to break those words down into categories, then how to take those categories and find the most important word in each one of them and then adding an A, a verb to make them actionable. And that's what I do. And so the first thing I will tell anybody in the discovery, in the self discovery of your connection with yourself in, in, in things that you want to go play and pursue. Find your values and start from there.

Yeah. Anchor yourself inside of that and we'll put that in the show notes. And that's. Is that a judgeaw.com yeah. Okay, great tool, great offer. And I, I love that free download. A question. Do you have family values in addition to your personal values or how close are they?

So my values, my core values are my core values. They don't change in different groups, which feel very authentic for me because if I'm making a decision at work, and my second core value is cherished family. And I'm choosing to do something that puts it over them. I'm not aligned with my values. I may at home not, but at work, not either. And so my values are my values. And my second one being cherished family, meaning safety comes first. I have to feel safe to be able to show up for my family and then cherish family and what does you know, and then understanding what really cherished family means and. And sort of living by that.

Interesting.

I would say no. My core values don't change among circumstances. They are just the values that I live in, the decisions that I make.

In my book discernment, I share our company values and I share my personal family values. But I would suspect that if I did values just for me, that they would be different. I would, because I did our family values. Live fun, be humble, respect others, be a servant, leader. Fail fast and move forward. Trust yourself to take chances. Always do that more than is expected. Like, that's our family value. That's our little credo. Right. It's been on the refrigerator since the kids were small. And you'd be surprised when it comes back.

Those are great for the workplace.

Yeah. Well, and then we're cares community in our business.

Show up in your community.

Yeah, we're in our. In our. Where cares community, accountability, respect, excellence, and servant's heart as our. Our family values. But if I was going to do them for me personally, they would be different. Like, they would be different. And I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna download, I'm gonna go to judgeshaw.com and I'm gonna go through the exercise and you'll get my email and you will send me lots of things.

Yeah, I would love for you to share it too, with me. I'd love to see how that came out in how that aligns with both sort of your overall family and work values. Now families themselves can have a different set of values.

Right.

That's a good exercise too.

Right.

What's the family value? Could be different than your own personal values.

Yeah. I mean, a set of values, it. It, it guides our behavior, it creates a sense of identity, and it also defines the rules of the road for how we're going to interact with one another.

Another.

What's in or what's out? If you, if you asked me, you know, I did Undercover Boss, and, you know, I sat the kids down and I said, hey, you know, this is going to change things. Nobody, nobody really knows us locally here. Our Businesses are more national in scope. We're a franchise business and if we get on the show and we did, and 7 million people saw it the very first night that it played, I said this is going to change things for you at school. People are going to look at you differently. And you know, we looked at the family values that said trust yourself to take chances, always do more than expected. And because of those family values, they're like, well, you have to do it, you know, and, and you know, it doesn't. By the way, that show doesn't always go well. You know, it's like they will, you know, good TV has drama and if you give it to them, they will, you know, they'll 10 exit and there you go, you know, you look like a jerk on television or so. So, but you know, so you make, we make decisions against that and you know, it's, it's a, you know, it is. Our values in my book are your first filters for discernment. It's how you make decisions that are aligned with who you are and, and the, whoever it is, however you want to occur in the world. And then, and then also too, like I said, it, it is how it is the rules of the road for how we're engaged. Respect others, you know, live fun, you know, be humble. You know, each one of those values, we have a story or an example or another family that would inform what that value means for us. You know, and kids aren't always into it, but I will tell you that they hear, your children will hear you even though they don't act like they hear you, because they will, in their actions and in their words. You will hear those lessons of a lifetime coming back when the decisions are big and the consequences are hard. Yeah, well, I think you're absolutely right in starting your self discovery with the values of who you are. And from there, you know, you've got. I made some notes here as I was thinking about this question. You know, self loathing, self loving, self acceptance, self awareness, self importance. All of these things play a role in how we define who we are. And I did a little post the other day. I got up early and I was walking along the beach. And I think the whole theme of the post was at the end of the day we have a body of work. Everything that we did or didn't do, every action that we took, every conversation that we had is just this constantly running little tick of adds or subtracts. And at the end of the day, on our last day on this world, we have to look back at our body of work and we have to be good with it because there's people that we'll never meet, there's places that we'll never go, there's opportunities that we'll never get our eyes on. And our world that we actually interact with versus the whole world is minute, tiny and relatively insignificant. It doesn't matter if you got hundreds of millions of dollars, it's still just a drop in the ocean of what's out there. And at the end of the day you have to be good with it. You know, whatever, whatever we did and whatever we didn't do, whatever impact we made or didn't make, like we have to be good with it. So why not start being good with it today? I mean we are a lot of.

Things you, we're good enough talk about Jeff.

Sorry.

Yeah, a lot of the things you, you're talking about are transferable now into leadership, which is heart led leadership skills. I think that's the big shift too that I'm seeing in my workplace in the next levels of generations of workers which is really the ideas that you know, emotional intelligence was talked about in the 80s, was unheard of in 90s. Nobody cared about self awareness, self regulation, empathy. And that shift is changing. Those are no longer soft skills. I think they are the most critically important skills a leader can have of, of a leader of themself first and foremost in a leader of others. And, and it comes from a place of understanding your core values, of understanding your wounds, of understanding your behaviors, of being aware of, of your emotions, being able to regulate those emotions. These are critically important skills for leaders to have in building culture, in building success, in, in, in, in, in in leading. And, and so I, you know we, we've mentioned a hundred times today which is vulnerability and authenticity, the most driving forces I think in leadership. But then under those are those trickled ones that live in empathy, that live in compassion, that live in just good human service from one person to another. And those things are now actually being sought after. We're finding a lot of data in the new workforce that are changing the idea of what benefits are valued. Right. There was a time where it was just how much time off do I have between PTO wellness and PTO sick time or vacation time? What's you know, now it's remote and hybrid work. Before was even, that was even mentioned in an interview. And now it's starting to shift where we're starting to see the workforce looking at the employer, the leader themselves, the leadership of the Organization. And they're like, does this organization align with my values? Do they care about the world the way I do? Do they care about humans and each other the way I do? And those organizations that come with heart led leadership skills are going to start to be able to stand out and capture the best talent out there, because that's what people are starting to desire much even more than, than money and time off.

Is leadership more art or science?

Well, if you ask my good friend Dr. Abby, she would say maybe science, but I have to say experience on the other. But I think it's a hybrid. I think that there's science in terms of when we're talking about leadership, we're talking about human behavior, human response. And those things are based in theories. But then there's also the art of it. And that is, you know, being able. I'll give you the art of it. The art of it is being able to walk into your company, see garbage on the floor, stop, pick it up when nobody else is looking, and throw it away. That's the art of leadership. Because somebody else saw that and they're telling everybody, like, he's picking up the garbage and throwing it out. Not like, hey, can I get somebody to throw out this piece of paper that's here on the floor? Yeah, that's the art of leadership, meaning the ability to understand that even when you're not thinking you're watched, Coldplay, Kiss Cam, that you're always being watched. And that's just the responsibility of a leader, that you're. That there's someone always looking at you in terms of how you're acting, to either mirror, mentor, judge, or critique it. And, and, and if you want to own the role of a true leader, you have to understand that that means how you show up in your life.

Right. Judd, this has been great. I feel like we need to tug on those reins and start heading towards the barn a little bit. But I've got two questions for you, if you're willing to play along. I got a curveball and I got a fastball for you. For you. Okay, so here's, here's the curveball. Gun to your head. You had to start a business in 30 days. It's not a business that you're currently in. Where do you see the opportunities in the marketplace to start a business right now?

I would say consulting in areas that later generations are having more difficulty learning, whether it be social media, whether it be AI. There are aspects of my business that I can no longer keep up with because they're Moving too fast. And I need people to help me.

Yes.

And if you can, if you're gonna start a business today, in 30 days, start where there's a great need. The biggest need obviously is in AI. It's how to do it, how to learn it, how to work it, how to, you know, these things. And so for any 18 year old out there, get off your phone, all right, off social media, get out, you know, and, and go start spending the time you spend scrolling learning AI. That's what I would say from, you know, whether it be chat and Gemini Anthropic, learn, learn, you know, learn all of the different programs, various programs, because that, that's where that's going and there are going to be a larger group of people requiring that resource. And as it grows it and it continues to move too fast, companies and clients and customers are out there who have a great need of understanding how that fits for their business. And I think it's a low hanging fruit because what it requires is not an investment of money, it just requires your time. You know, you're 18, go spend that kind of time that you have now and start just playing on these apps and learning these apps so you can consult and provide that for somebody else who's willing to pay for it.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Huge opportunity there because we, we just, we're just waiting. Many of us older business owners are just waiting for somebody to come in and solve the problem and we'd happily pay for it. Awesome.

Sure.

Great.

Great. Totally.

Yeah. It's funny where usually a lot of times when I ask that question, people go right to the biggest problem that they're currently having in their business. And I think we're all having that problem in our, those of us that have mature businesses, we're all having that problem. Problem. All right, before I ask the last question, where can people get best get in touch with you?

I visit my website judd@juddshaw.com that's J u d d s h a w dot com. It's what I call like the jud verse. From there you can explore Sterling the night, my children's picture book series. You could get to the podcast behind the Armor. My law firm, Judge Shaw, Andre Law, my leadership in coaching and speaking. And the other place is on any social media at Juddshaw official on Instagram, DM me follow there. We put out a lot of content similar to the kind of things we're talking about today.

Awesome. Fantastic. Last question. If you had one sentence to make an impact in somebody's life. What would that be?

Bravery starts in the heart.

What do you mean by that?

I was going to tell you. I was going to tell you. Your wants minus your halves was going to equal satisfaction. But it's not my sentence to make. I mean by bravery starts in the heart. That's. I say bravery starts in heart meaning show up authentically, show up vulnerably. It's your courage. Show up with heart, with compassion, with empathy, with service to others. When you come from a place of your heart, you. You cannot lose. You know the money will follow, I promise you that. But start with heart led leadership of yourself and others. Be vulnerable with other men. Share. If you're struggling or you need in help. Show up real and raw. It gives permission for other people to do the same and starts to make a cultural shift. And it's an energy, by the way, that's magnetic when. When you come with bravery from your heart, when you come from that level of courage that drives people wanting to be with you, it. That's what it does.

Judd, thank you so much for being on today.

Appreciate it, Jeff, it's been great being with you. Really.

Yeah, I've really enjoyed it. I'm Jeff Duden. We have been on the unemployable podcast with Judd Shaw. Thanks for listening.